lemforum: replacement and ordering (2016-2017)

[Simon]

Thanks! The case isn't closed yet -- I removed the steel because of the attached backroute in the C++ version. Beautifying the level was a welcome extra, not the main reason this time.

-- Simon

[Nepster]

Thanks for the other backroute to Passing Engagement. Unfortunately I haven't got any good backroute-fix that does not require frame-precise skill assignments for the intended solution.

Here some more replays and comments for Daunting:
1) Tribute to Benny Hill: Reduce imploders from 3 to 1.
2) Alternative Route Required: Usuall 20-30 lix are left in the hatch when the player is finished. I suggest to reduce the lix count to 18/20.
3) Slipping: The fire on the left is one pixel too high. I see the reason for the fire on the right. But why do we need the fire on the left? Doesn't it just simplify the level by removing a lot of possible alternative approaches?
4) Slipping Again: With my fastest solution only half of the lix appeared before finishing the path. So I would recommend reducing the lix number from 20/20 to either 15/15 or 10/10.
5) Crimson Room: Again one can finish before all lix are out of the hatch. I suggest 30/30 or even 20/20.
6) Round Trip: About 20 lix are still in the hatch. So I would at least reduce the lix count to 56/60, perhaps even to 36/40.
7) Ring of Fnargl: When the hatch is secured, about 60 lix are still in the hatch. This is a LOT more than the 10 lix for the save requirement. So I suggest changing it from 10/80 to either 10/50 or 10/40.

[Proxima]

Here's an update to the levelpack that addresses the above issues, with a few small changes elsewhere. Nepster's revision of Jacob's Ladder is in.

I haven't changed Passing Engagement yet as I need to look through all the backroutes and decide on the best way to fix the level. Nepster's backroute to Dances with Lixes is also unfixed for now.

[Simon]

I will include the archive above in 0.6.9.

Proxima: For the 5-rank coverage, I need a replay to the Slipping Again from 2016-07-24. I have covered every other level. I didn't solve Slipping Again within 20 minutes.

For further suggestions, please don't update earlier posts or attachments anymore; make a fresh post.

-- Simon

[namida]

Solution achieved. This might be a backroute as it has a climber and a builder left over, and the timing is very tight.

[Proxima]

Ah, I didn't realise that the archive still had an older version of the level. (It doesn't -- I viewed the wrong replay instead of namida's!) I've attached the latest version and my replay.

[Simon]

You have attached the exact same level that's in the zip archive.

git keeps track of your files. It shows when, and why, a change has been introduced. Merges are easy, often fully automatic, because git remembers at what time someone has branched off from existing work. You choose what you publish, or what you merge from other people.

The new replay solves too, good.

-- Simon

[Nepster]

I had a look at Vicious:

1) Dividing 3 by 2: Remove the two imploders. Change lix count to 30/30 or even 20/20, because I release the crowd while there are still 7 lix in the hatch.
2) The Last Laugh: Reduce the number of imploders to 1, because the save requirement is 3/4.
3) Lixster Quadrille: Remove the two fling-bomber and the two cubers, because the save requirement is 80/80.
4) Laser Deathroom 1: Reduce the number of imploders to 1, because the save requirement is 49/50.
5) Trapeze of Weird Blue Blocks: Remove fling-bomber.
6) Toccata: At the bottom left corner it is possible to build one stair so that lix from both sides may walk up the fence. However one has to place this builder frame-precise! Otherwise either the lix from the left may not step up or only one brick is placed before the builder turns. I found this pretty annoying.
6) Thomas the Climber: Reduce the number of imploders to 1, because the save requirement is 49/50.
7) Matter of Perspective: Remove the fling-bomber.
8) Survival of the Craftiest: Remove the two fling-bombers.
9) Dream the Impossible Dream: Remove the two fling-bombers and the two cubers.
10) Chasm: At the top left corner, one has to start mining rather early. The reason is, that otherwise jumping runners will start too high and vanish through the top. In my opinion this makes the level more fiddly than is actually has to be.

[Simon]

Proxima: Reaction to Nepster's post above? You haven't implemented nor rejected them yet.

Lixes in Arms: rank 5 -> rank 4. Icho suggests rank 5 -> rank 3 even, because the route is easy to find, even if the execution is comparatively difficult.
Dances with Lixes: rank 4 -> rank 5 at least. This is harder than Elixir. Are there solutions other than Proxima's replay from the D replay collection? I still believe Elixir in rank 5 is correct, because the ideas in rank 4 are more straightforward. Rank 5 is the realm of ingenious tricks.
Parking Garage: Icho suggests rank 6 is too high.
Panic Attack: I believe rank 6 is OK. I forgot everything from the discussions last month, and couldn't solve within 15 minutes.
Stuff in the Way: Rank 6 depended on the 2-minute time limit. How to handle?

-- Simon

[Proxima]

I'm inclined to cut Lixes in Arms in favour of one of the Capybara levels, but that will have to wait until I've had time to work on those. I'm not touching Hopeless ordering until I've had a chance to have a really good try at solving as many levels as I can.

[Nepster]

Dances with Lixes: rank 4 -> rank 5 at least. This is harder than Elixir. Are there solutions other than Proxima's replay from the D replay collection? I still believe Elixir in rank 5 is correct, because the ideas in rank 4 are more straightforward. Rank 5 is the realm of ingenious tricks.

There is an alternative solution in my Daunting replays that I posted above. I attached it again here.

Stuff in the Way: Rank 6 depended on the 2-minute time limit. How to handle?

Attached a slightly modified version that prevents my backroute. It still hat to be properly tested for other backroutes though.

[Simon]

Cut Lixes in Arms for new level: good with me.
Wait with reordering Hopeless: good with me. Including a decision on Stuff in the way. Thanks for backroute-fix.

Nepster's route to Dances with Lixes: Thanks, this is a simpler method.

Maybe this Dances solution is easier than the Elixir. Elixir is one main trick that is hit-or-miss, and you're stuck until you see it. Many ideas for Dances begin like Nepster's route, but come short 1 builder.  Dances has endless scope to go wrong without noticing it right away, but, at the same time, lots of scope to stumble upon a hidden fix.


Let's rename rank 1, Simple, to Lovely. Three reasons:

• Simple has a connotation of stupid.
• Not all rank-1 levels are simple. Several Simple levels are puzzles where the obvious idea doesn't work. Yet all levels are lovely.
• You get a consonance pattern within ranks 1&2, 3&4, 5&6: Lovely, Quirky; Cunning, Daunting; Vicious, Hopeless.

-- Simon

[Simon]

OK from Proxima and geoo in IRC:
Rename Simple -> Lovely.
Rename Setting a Fundament -> Cubic Interpolation.

Rename Finale -> Prelude? Proxima was irritated in #NL why this is Finale in Lix. Maybe because it's ranked after Toccata, and in second-to-last position of the rank. A prelude comes before the other thing, but this comes after.

-- Simon

[Proxima]

Not irritated at all, just had to explain in case anyone else was confused by the levels having different names from their Cheapo counterparts (which I never really expected to see resurrected after all this time).

[geoo]

Attached is a proposed change to Railroad Plot and Derailed Level.

Aim is to unify the solution and ease execution of the latter level, and improve the visuals involving the locomotive.

I believe the original version of Off the Rails only had two crates on the right instead of 5 and allowed building over that. All the solutions to Railroad Plot that I currently know are a little bit messy. I'm wondering if it's worth changing the terrain there, or in the center of the level to make it a bit nice. Neither change, when transferred to Derailed Level, would affect its solution.