Author Topic: [SuperLemmini] Reverse Lemmings (Read 18236 times)

Colorful Arty · « **on:** April 04, 2016, 12:15:18 AM »

It's here! And much sooner than I expected!

Reverse Lemmings contains all 120 levels from the original Amiga Lemmings, but with a new twist; the entrances and exits have been swapped! With this simple gimmick, you can also expect to see different skill sets, time limits, release rates, and maybe even number of lemmings on a given level. You can expect to visit parts of the levels you never had to in the original game! (I also tweaked a tiny bit of terrain on a small handful of levels, but only the eagle-eyed will ever notice, and believe me, it was in everyone's best interest that I did so.)

Reverse Lemmings has a difficulty much more close to the original Lemmings than to your typical custom levelpack, but there are a few good puzzles in there to throw you off. Also, the difficulty curve is all over the place, since there are some levels in the late game that are almost impossible to make difficult, while some levels in Tricky and Taxing are much more difficult by comparison.

Download instructions:

1. Click the download link in the attachments below
2. Unzip the file and put Reverse Lemmings into your SuperLemmini "levels" file, and replace the "mods" file in SuperLemmini with the "mods" file you download. (Or add the contents of the downloaded "mods" file into your "mods" file) (Thanks IchoTolot!)
3. And that's it! Just launch SuperLemmini, and Reverse Lemmings will appear in your levelpacks when you hit select level

I did not include music for this pack, but I would highly recommend the DOS soundtrack for these levels.

Please give me feedback on the levels by posting in this page, or by private messaging me! I would love to hear your inputs!

Also, I doubt that anyone playing this pack will get stuck, but if you do and really want help, by all means, private message me which level you are stuck on, and specify whether you want the complete solution, or just a hint or two, and I will be only too happy to comply!

I think that's all, so enjoy Reverse Lemmings!

IchoTolot · « **Reply #1 on:** April 04, 2016, 11:22:09 AM »

I will take a look over the days.

But I have quite some things on my to do list right now, so the feedback will probably need a bit of time.

IchoTolot · « **Reply #2 on:** April 04, 2016, 06:54:32 PM »

As I took a little look into it, I encountered an error:

The special tilesets are missing! As I try to enter a special level, SuperLemmini tells me that the tileset is missing and gives me an error.

namida · « **Reply #3 on:** April 04, 2016, 07:02:17 PM »

Do they work under regular Lemmini? If so, the likely cause is that Arty didn't take into account that Lemmini and SuperLemmini handle special graphics in completely different ways (Lemmini has a "special" graphic set, which from a technical point of view is no different from a regular one and contains each level's layout as a single tile; while SuperLemmini works more similarly to how DOS L1 or NeoLemmix work in regards to them).

It's one of the very few exceptions to "Lemmini levels are 100% possible to load in SuperLemmini without any changes".

Colorful Arty · « **Reply #4 on:** April 04, 2016, 07:12:17 PM »

Terribly sorry about this.

Indeed, I made the special levels in Lemmini and just pasted them into SuperLemmini, but I don't know why it works for me and not you guys. It should be a quick fix though.

namida · « **Reply #5 on:** April 04, 2016, 07:17:51 PM »

Quote from: Colorful Arty on April 04, 2016, 07:12:17 PM

Terribly sorry about this.

Indeed, I made the special levels in Lemmini and just pasted them into SuperLemmini, but I don't know why it works for me and not you guys. It should be a quick fix though.

You've probably copied the "special" folder from your Lemmini styles, too. Although it would work visually, there's a good chance the objects won't quite have the right trigger areas (graphic sets are not as compatible between the two as levels are).

Colorful Arty · « **Reply #6 on:** April 04, 2016, 07:20:40 PM »

I fixed the AWESOME and MENACING levels, but NeoLemmix Editor will not open the SuperLemmini original Lemmings levels Beast 1 and Beast 2. When I try to open them, it tells me "unknown graphic set (beastii)" for A BeastII of a level and "unknown graphic set (beasti)" for A Beast of a level. Any idea how to fix that?

IchoTolot · « **Reply #7 on:** April 04, 2016, 07:21:16 PM »

Quote from: Colorful Arty on April 04, 2016, 07:12:17 PM

Terribly sorry about this.

Indeed, I made the special levels in Lemmini and just pasted them into SuperLemmini, but I don't know why it works for me and not you guys. It should be a quick fix though.

Fixed your pack

Steps to make:

1.) make a "Reverse Lemmings" folder in the mod folder
2.) make a "styles" folder in it
3.) copy the "special" folder of the regular Lemmini styles into it
4.) open "levelpack.ini" of yor pack
5.) add "mods = Reverse Lemmings" right above the line with "codeSeed"
6.) fixed

Colorful Arty · « **Reply #8 on:** April 04, 2016, 07:24:04 PM »

You're a miracle worker IchoTolot!

I would ideally like to give those special levels the SuperLemmini look though, the levels themselves don't look as good as they should, but I'm having trouble getting NeoLemmix Editor to load the beast 1 and 2 levels. I had no problem loading the menace and awesome levels though...

IchoTolot · « **Reply #9 on:** April 04, 2016, 07:32:56 PM »

Quote from: Colorful Arty on April 04, 2016, 07:24:04 PM

You're a miracle worker IchoTolot!

I would ideally like to give those special levels the SuperLemmini look though, the levels themselves don't look as good as they should, but I'm having trouble getting NeoLemmix Editor to load the beast 1 and 2 levels. I had no problem loading the menace and awesome levels though...

Well, I will play on with this fix for now. The special tilesets are often a hassle. Nepster can sing a song about this converting all of the old Lemmix archive.

Gronkling even made complete NeoLemmix tilesets out of menace and BeastII: http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2457.0

Colorful Arty · « **Reply #10 on:** April 04, 2016, 07:43:11 PM »

I updated the download link so it SHOULD work now. I am SO sorry for the probLEMS the special file caused.

namida · « **Reply #11 on:** April 04, 2016, 11:26:51 PM »

I'll take a look when I get home, and see if it is indeed a problem with the editor (and if so, fix it).

Tsyu · « **Reply #12 on:** April 05, 2016, 12:09:07 AM »

I checked this out myself. I can create levels with those special graphic sets, but I can't load them, even those that I had just saved it in the editor. The only sets that don't have this problem are Awesome, Menace, and Covox.

IchoTolot · « **Reply #13 on:** April 05, 2016, 02:17:42 PM »

@ Colorful Arty: Can you send me a solving replay to Taxing 28 "POOR WEE CREATURES"?

I think I found something

Colorful Arty · « **Reply #14 on:** April 05, 2016, 03:05:31 PM »

Oh. My. Gosh.

For whatever reason, when I removed the blank space from the ends of the level, a builder was removed from the skill list, probably me pushing the wrong buttons by mistake in the editor.

If you found a solution using only one builder, then amazing! If not, either redownload or just add an extra builder to that level.

I am so sorry. When I tested the level, I had 2 builders. I honestly have no idea how that happened.

Colorful Arty · « **Reply #15 on:** April 05, 2016, 03:31:47 PM »

I just remembered how that level became impossible!

When I tested it out, I finished with an extra builder (you originally had 3). I decided when I removed the blank space from the level to remove one of the builders, and accidentally must have removed 2. That is still stupidity on my part, but at least now I know how it happened.

IchoTolot · « **Reply #16 on:** April 05, 2016, 03:34:47 PM »

Quote from: Colorful Arty on April 05, 2016, 03:31:47 PM

I just remembered how that level became impossible!

When I tested it out, I finished with an extra builder (you originally had 3). I decided when I removed the blank space from the level to remove one of the builders, and accidentally must have removed 2. That is still stupidity on my part, but at least now I know how it happened.

So it is impossible

Then I change the builder counter in the editor to 2 and continue

Colorful Arty · « **Reply #17 on:** April 05, 2016, 03:49:36 PM »

I'm guessing this is why levels designers have multiple people test levels before releasing the pack proper. I feel like such an idiot.

IchoTolot · « **Reply #18 on:** April 05, 2016, 03:58:23 PM »

Quote from: Colorful Arty on April 05, 2016, 03:49:36 PM

I'm guessing this is why levels designers have multiple people test levels before releasing the pack proper. I feel like such an idiot.

Here is my way of doing things

:

I create solving replays for every level I create.

I maintain a replay database with solving replays for my packs + single levels and if the NeoLemmix version changes I check if the replays are still solving. We've got an automatic replay checker for packs for this case which can check ~ 150 replays in 3 mins + saves the result in a txt with detailed information.

If I find a broken replay, I will try to make it solvable again. Mostly this is usually just a skill assignment that goes wrong by a few pixels ---> fail, but if the level itself broke ----> hotfix.

IchoTolot · « **Reply #19 on:** April 05, 2016, 04:09:22 PM »

Also I created your replay database

Or to put it in other words: Pack solved and replays attached

Some really nice puzzles in here, but over some parts there were a bit too much "builder-heavy" levels for my taste. Building long bridges is not one of my favorite tasks

.

"Save me" made me a little proud after I needed just 1 restart

Also some of the longer, more fiddly stuff was quite annoying when you have to watch through the whole replay again and again after a tiny mistake

.

Overall it was really nice to visit some new routes in the old levels

Colorful Arty · « **Reply #20 on:** April 05, 2016, 04:47:34 PM »

That was fast.

I'll definitely take a look at these later.

Sorry for all of the builder-heavy levels. Some of those levels are really hard to solve without using plenty of builders.

Colorful Arty · « **Reply #21 on:** April 05, 2016, 05:30:41 PM »

Wow.

I just took a look at several of your replays (the puzzle levels), and it would probably be easier to list the levels you didn't backroute.

Levels you heavily backrouted:

Luvly Jubbly (I did NOT see that coming)
Compression Method 1 (WAY better than the actual solution!

)
The ascending pillar scenario (NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! That was one of my favorites!)
Feel the heat! (I didn't even know what you did was possible)
King of the Castle (How did I not SEE that!? Easily fixed though)
No added colours or lemmings (Clearly I was blind making this level)
All or Nothing (My favorite solution, and you found a way around it!)

Levels you minorly backrouted:

From the Boundary Line
The Crankshaft (You made that WAY harder than it needed to be. It looked nice though)
Every Lemming for himself!
Bomboozal (Totally valid solution)
Triple Trouble (You made it a bit easier I guess)
How do I dig up the way? (General idea, but your way was much harder than the real one)
Poles Apart (I saw that one coming...)
The Great Lemming Caper (Loved your solution just as much as the actual one)
Save me (I meant you to use diggers at the end)

I'll eventually make my own replays to show off the "real" solutions, but many of yours were nicer than the ones I had in mind. Mad props!

Flopsy · « **Reply #22 on:** April 29, 2016, 02:44:31 PM »

Mentioned this in the IRC briefly but I'm thinking about playing this Level Pack soon and record it for my youtube channel

Just wanted to know if you have any updates planned for Reverse Lemmings in the near future in which case I can hold off on playing it until after the updates are released otherwise I'll go right ahead and commence this pack as a second side project (as it is neither Neo Lemmix related nor an Official Lemmings authored game).

Alternately, I can provide further backroute feedback on the pack in its current state if you'd rather I did that

Ben H · « **Reply #23 on:** May 28, 2016, 08:58:32 AM »

Interesting concept to reverse the entries and exits.
I shall add this to my list of games to play.

Colorful Arty · « **Reply #24 on:** June 04, 2016, 01:20:45 AM »

This just in:

I will be releasing a NeoLemmix version of Reverse Lemmings sometime soon with backroute fixes! This seems to be people's preferred way of playing Lemmings (and it is easier to record), so I thought "why not?"

If anyone wants to make a title for this in NeoLemmix, that would be great, otherwise, I'll try my hand at it.

namida · « **Reply #25 on:** June 04, 2016, 08:28:40 AM »

The obvious option here: Take the "Lemmings" logo and flip it backwards!

Colorful Arty · « **Reply #26 on:** June 04, 2016, 10:17:12 PM »

Good suggestion! Is there a lemmings logo file available for download, or should I just google image search

namida · « **Reply #27 on:** June 05, 2016, 07:50:31 AM »

I don't think that the resources are available for download as a pack anywhere; but I have most of them among the source files for NeoLemmix itself or the various NXPs of official games, so just ask if you need any.

Colorful Arty · « **Reply #28 on:** June 07, 2016, 01:18:08 AM »

I can't get NeoLemmix editor to edit the Special levels, so for the time being, the NeoLemmix version will have the 4 replacement levels taken from the Bonus rank of SuperLemmini instead.

GigaLem · « **Reply #29 on:** June 07, 2016, 03:01:34 AM »

Quote from: Colorful Arty on June 07, 2016, 01:18:08 AM

I can't get NeoLemmix editor to edit the Special levels, so for the time being, the NeoLemmix version will have the 4 replacement levels taken from the Bonus rank of SuperLemmini instead.

you know yuo can load a VGASPEC file in neolemmix, if you didn't know that already

namida · « **Reply #30 on:** June 07, 2016, 08:48:44 AM »

Colorful Arty: I'll have to look into why there's issues, but in the meantime, could you possibly just remake those levels using the NeoLemmix versions of the original levels? (To get copies of the NL default levels - press F4 while on the title screen of the game (in this case, Orig), select "yes" to all options, then look in the newly-created "dump" subfolder.)

Colorful Arty · « **Reply #31 on:** June 07, 2016, 01:00:02 PM »

Here's the problem:

I can make the levels in the editor of the special levels, but when I try to play them in NeoLemmix, I get the error message:

Access violation at address 008AB137 in module 'NeoLemmix.exe'. Read of address 00000000.

So it seems I can make the levels, it's just NeoLemmix will not play them.

namida · « **Reply #32 on:** June 07, 2016, 01:07:52 PM »

Are you playing them via playtest mode from the editor, or by loading them as single level files in NeoLemmix itself? Or is this when you build them into an NXP and try to play that?

If it's not via playtest mode, are you sure the relevant special graphics file is available? For standalone levels these should go in the "styles" folder; for NXPs you should add them on the Graphic Sets tab. You can find copies of them in the editor's "styles/NeoLemmix" folder; the ones starting with "x_". NeoLemmix doesn't have them built in since they aren't too widely used, so it was adding filesize for not much benefit.

If that doesn't help;
1. Can you send me a LVL file with this issue?
2. Are you using the stable version (V1.43n-F) or the experimental version?

I'm on #neolemmix at the moment if you'd rather chat than post to try and sort the issue out.