Author Topic: Original Lemmings Level Voteoff (WINNER: Mayhem 20) (Read 19229 times)

namida · « **on:** November 09, 2014, 05:25:50 PM »

So, like I did with my packs, I'm now running voteoffs for the official lemmings games. Starting, logically, with the Original Game.

One change I'm making is that I'm not entering the levels in chronological order, but rather, it's randomized. The lists are determined by first running all the levels through a randomizer, dividing the result into sets of however many levels according to the rules for that round, and then putting the levels within each section back into chronological order. If a single section contains certain conditions, it was rerolled together with the following section until the conditions no longer occur. These conditions are:

- If the section does not contain levels from at least three difficulty ranks
- If the section contains too many levels from the same rank
- If the section contains both a level and its repeat version
- If the section contains more than one VGASPEC level
- If the section contains any set of more than 3 consecutive levels

Another section is added into the rerolling if the problem still persisted after three re-rolls. This is continued until the entire list is free of these issues. Also, these things are not applied during the later rounds; only the early ones. The breakdown of the sections can be found in the second post.

As for the breakdown of the rounds, this will be done in six rounds. Each round has a varying amount of levels that qualify for the next round, and a varying amount of votes allowed per user. Qualifying for the next round is based on the following rules:

1) First place - All levels tied for first place qualify, no matter what (even if it exceeds the qualifying levels limit).
2) Second place - If the first place levels do not reach the limit of qualifying levels, all levels tied for second place qualify (even if it exceeds the qualifying levels limit) as long as they have at least one vote.
3) Third place - If the first two places do not reach the limit, and adding the third place levels would not exceed the limit, the third place levels also qualify as long as they have at least one vote (in the first round) or at least half as many votes as the first place level (all other rounds).

If the limit still isn't reached after third place, then the same rule as for 3rd is applied to 4th place and so on.

Original Lemmings round rules

For the "too many levels from same rank" rule, the limit is set at 7 levels; any more than this from a single rank and a re-roll occurs.

First Round
Levels are broken into sets of 10. Three votes are allowed per set per person. The qualifying levels limit is 5. Re-rolling rules are applied.

Second Round
Levels that qualified from the first round are broken into sets of 5; if this does not divide equally then the early sets will get an extra level each (eg: if 17 levels qualify, the first set will have 6, second set will have 6, third set will have 5). Two votes are allowed per set per person. The qualifying levels limit is 3. Re-rolling rules are applied.

Third Round
Levels that qualified from the second round are broken into sets of 4; if this does not divide equally then the early sets will get an extra level. Two votes are allowed per set per person. The qualifying levels limit is 2. Re-rolling rules are applied, but the "levels from at least three ranks" rule is changed to "levels from at least two ranks".

Fourth Round
Levels that qualified from the third round are broken into three sets, however many levels each that may equate to. Two votes are allowed per user. The qualifying levels limit is 2. Re-rolling rules do not apply.

Fifth Round
All levels that qualified from the fourth round are played off as a single set, however many levels that may equate to. The number of votes allowed per person will be one vote plus one extra vote for every whole set of 6 levels in a round (eg: if a round has 5 levels, one vote per person, if a round has 7 levels, two votes per person). The qualifying levels limit is 2. Re-rolling rules do not apply.

Sixth Round
All levels that qualified from the fifth round are played off as a single set, however many levels that may equate to. One vote is allowed per person. The winner of this round wins the voteoff; if there's a tie but it isn't equal between all levels (for example, if 3 levels qualify and only two of them tie for first), a tiebreaker round will be held, but if it is equal between all levels, they will be tied for winning the voteoff as a whole. Re-rolling rules do not apply.

Please be honest with the number of votes you make; double-check with what the poll question says. But just to be clear - the vote count allowed is a maximum, not an exactly number. In a round where 3 votes are allowed, it's perfectly fine to only vote for one or two levels if you'd prefer.

Also, one change from the Lemmings Plus voteoffs where it was somewhat arbitrary - for this one, all sets will be open for voting for at least 48 hours from the time of the post announcing that they have been put up (for the first set, this post counts as the announcement). I'm not saying for sure I'll be updating it exactly on the 48 hour mark, just that I won't do it *before* that mark.

EDIT: Just want to mention, please don't treat the image links in the poll as permanently available. I don't plan to keep them available once the voteoff is finished. If you want a copy of the level maps (which you can host somewhere else, or on a free image host, if you like), you can get it here.

After this voteoff is finished, I plan to hold them for the other official games, after which there'll be a "final round" pitting all the winners from each game against each other. The order I plan to do the remaining games in is:
2) Oh No! More Lemmings!
3) Holiday Lemmings 1994 (including H93 levels, of course)
4) Xmas Lemmings 91/92 (combined into a single voteoff)
5) Covox Lemmings Demo
6) Prima Publishing Lemmings Demo
7) Extra levels

Extra levels will be all single-player levels from versions that are mostly mechanics-compatible with the DOS version - in other words, the unique levels from Genesis, the unique levels from the Budget Amiga and Bookclub Amiga versions, the unique Holiday Lemmings level from Amiga, and the unique Tricky 21s from the Mac and SNES versions. Levels from versions that are not mechanics-compatible (or at least close to it) such as Master System, NES and PSP will not be included, and neither will two-player levels.

namida · « **Reply #1 on:** November 09, 2014, 05:25:59 PM »

The winner of this voteoff was:

Mayhem 20 - "No added colours or Lemmings"

The full breakdown of level lists and results from each round are available in the attached spreadsheet. Do note that this spreadsheet uses a feature that (as far as I'm aware; I could be completely wrong) isn't very often used, specifically, multiple pages. In most software, if you look down the bottom of the window, you'll see small tabs saying "Round 1", "Round 2", etc.

exit · « **Reply #2 on:** November 11, 2014, 12:23:54 AM »

My apologies, I didn't read the rules correctly. Sorry about that. I won't do that again.

namida · « **Reply #3 on:** November 11, 2014, 03:10:28 AM »

Quote from: exit on 2014-11-10 18:23:54

My apologies, I didn't read the rules correctly. Sorry about that. I won't do that again.

It was more than one person anyway, at the point where I reset it we had 11 people voted but 24 votes total.

But let's not worry about that now. It's under control; let's focus on our favorite levels again.

namida · « **Reply #4 on:** November 11, 2014, 11:49:24 PM »

Qualifying levels from this set are:

Taxing 09 "Perserverance"
Mayhem 08 "Last one out is a rotten egg!"
Mayhem 21 "With a twist of lemming please"

Next round is up.

namida · « **Reply #5 on:** November 14, 2014, 09:52:17 AM »

Qualifying levels from this round are:

* Mayhem 3 "It's hero time!"
* Mayhem 6 "One way or another"

New round is up.

Prob Lem · « **Reply #6 on:** November 14, 2014, 10:32:47 AM »

Just voted, but posting with a quick heads-up - the image links are all 404'ing right now.

namida · « **Reply #7 on:** November 14, 2014, 10:35:46 AM »

Fixed. I missed the "orig/" in the URLs. xD

namida · « **Reply #8 on:** November 16, 2014, 11:35:39 PM »

Qualifying levels are:

Mayhem 7 "Poles Apart"
Mayhem 12 "The Far Side"

Next round is up.

namida · « **Reply #9 on:** November 19, 2014, 06:48:38 PM »

Qualifying from this round are:

* Taxing 28 "POOR WEE CREATURES!"
* Mayhem 13 "The Great Lemming Caper"

Next round is up.

Mariachi Skeletron Prime · « **Reply #10 on:** November 19, 2014, 06:54:08 PM »

Beast of a Level and Feel the Heat.

Upsidown World gave me nightmares.

namida · « **Reply #11 on:** November 22, 2014, 12:59:11 AM »

Qualifying for this round are:

* Fun 22 "A Beast of a level"
* Taxing 13 "Upsidedown World"

Next round is up.

namida · « **Reply #12 on:** November 26, 2014, 05:24:04 AM »

Qualifying for this round are:

* Tricky 22 "Turn around young lemmings!"
* Taxing 02 "Watch out, there's traps about"
* Taxing 06 "Compression Method 1"

Next round is up.

namida · « **Reply #13 on:** November 30, 2014, 12:01:55 AM »

Qualifying for this round are:

* Tricky 25 "Cascade"
* Taxing 22 "Come on over to my place"

Next round is up.

namida · « **Reply #14 on:** December 02, 2014, 08:59:44 AM »

Qualifying from this set are:

* Taxing 08 "The Art Gallery"
* Mayhem 05 "Down, along, up. In that order"
* Mayhem 10 "Pillars of Hercules"

Gimme a little bit to set up the next set of rounds, I'll post again when they're up.

namida · « **Reply #15 on:** December 02, 2014, 09:14:31 AM »

Okay, it's up now. It's still two votes per section.

namida · « **Reply #16 on:** December 04, 2014, 09:46:56 AM »

Qualifying from this set are:

* Taxing 06 "Compression Method 1"
* Taxing 22 "Come on over to my place"

Next round is up.

namida · « **Reply #17 on:** December 06, 2014, 10:33:16 PM »

Wow. All four qualify dueto the tie for 2nd. Hopefully this doesnt happen too often...

Next round is up.

namida · « **Reply #18 on:** December 09, 2014, 12:06:54 PM »

Qualifying from this set are:

* Mayhem 07 "Poles Apart"
* Mayhem 13 "The Great Lemming Caper"

(Did anyone not see that coming? :p )

Next round is up.

ccexplore · « **Reply #19 on:** December 09, 2014, 07:17:29 PM »

Quote from: namida on 2014-12-09 06:06:54

(Did anyone not see that coming? :p )

Well, you know there are nonzero votes for the other 2 levels though, so......

(I actually picked Perseverance as it proved more versatile in challenges. I'll grant you that strictly in terms of the intended solution Mayhem 13 might have a leg-up.)

Proxima · « **Reply #20 on:** December 09, 2014, 09:00:22 PM »

And I picked Mayhem 18 -- great concept and always a fun level to play, even if there isn't much puzzle to it. That said, I'm not hugely surprised at the result. A little disappointed, but then, all but one of my favourite levels will have to lose at some stage

Minim · « **Reply #21 on:** December 10, 2014, 06:28:18 AM »

Quote from: Proxima on 2014-12-09 15:00:22

And I picked Mayhem 18

I think you meant Mayhem 08 didn't you?

I voted for that one too, along with Mayhem 20. I'm slightly surprised the former only picked up 5 votes, but not with the latter.

Proxima · « **Reply #22 on:** December 10, 2014, 01:06:24 PM »

No -- we're talking about the previous round, when the choice was between Taxing 9, Mayhem 7, Mayhem 13 and Mayhem 18.

Of course, in the present round I did vote for Mayhem 8, one I feel fondness for as it inspired one of my best custom levels, "From the Other Side".

namida · « **Reply #23 on:** December 15, 2014, 04:30:14 AM »

Qualifying levels from this round are:

Taxing 13 "Upsidedown World"
Mayhem 20 "No added colours or Lemmings"

Next round is up.

namida · « **Reply #24 on:** December 17, 2014, 06:03:14 AM »

Qualifying levels are:

Mayhem 03 "It's hero time!"
Mayhem 21 "With a twist of lemming please"

Next round is up.

namida · « **Reply #25 on:** December 21, 2014, 09:30:17 AM »

Qualifying levels are:

* Tricky 19 "Postcard from Lemmingland"
* Tricky 25 "Cascade"

Next round is up.

namida · « **Reply #26 on:** December 24, 2014, 09:12:57 AM »

Qualifying levels this round are:

Tricky 18 "It's Lemmingentry Watson"
Taxing 28 "POOR WEE CREATURES!"

I might wait until the move is all done until doing the next round, as it'll be simpler than moving mid-round (and I don't want to just start the next round on the new board until everyone's moved over).

namida · « **Reply #27 on:** December 28, 2014, 04:17:06 PM »

Since the switchover is now done, I'll get the new round up tomorrow - it's 5:16 AM here now so I can't be bothered right this second.

namida · « **Reply #28 on:** December 29, 2014, 01:14:17 AM »

The new round is now up.

Note that I felt it might be a bit over-restrictive to only allow one vote per user this round (apart from on the first set, since it has 6 levels), so I changed the rules to have two votes per user in every set in this round.

Even then, going to be some tough decisions here - dunno about you guys but a lot of my favorite levels ended up in here. xD (Not nessecerially the current set, just the current round in general.)

Proxima · « **Reply #29 on:** December 29, 2014, 11:21:07 AM »

I agree -- very few of my favourite levels have been eliminated so far, so I'm expecting to have some tough decisions ahead!

Not so tough this time though, Taxing 28 and Mayhem 6 are easily my favourites of this bunch.

Prob Lem · « **Reply #30 on:** December 29, 2014, 02:26:21 PM »

Yeah, I'm foreseeing some issues with tough choices, too.

Thankfully, this round wasn't too difficult, though.

Minim · « **Reply #31 on:** December 29, 2014, 02:27:13 PM »

Hey, this is my first post in the new forum (Thanks namida). So, here goes nothing...

I voted for Taxing 28 and Mayhem 21. Both of these puzzles take a lot of thought, and are on the harder end of their respective difficulty ratings.

namida · « **Reply #32 on:** December 31, 2014, 05:31:34 AM »

Qualifying levels are:

* Mayhem 12 "The Far Side"
* Mayhem 21 "With a twist of lemming please"

Next round is up.

namida · « **Reply #33 on:** January 02, 2015, 01:53:57 PM »

Qualifying this round are:

* Taxing 06 "Compression Method 1"
* Mayhem 13 "The Great Lemming Caper"

(Wow, I didn't expect Taxing 6 to beat Taxing 22! :O)

Next round is up.

ccexplore · « **Reply #34 on:** January 02, 2015, 10:02:46 PM »

Looks like I missed the last round completely and it looked like it only lasted for 2 days? Oh well. I guess it got lost in the list of recent posts.

geoo · « **Reply #35 on:** January 03, 2015, 12:13:06 AM »

Yeah, the posting frequency has surged since the move so the 10 most recent posts often don't cover everything new anymore. I wonder if it's possible to group those by topic, rather than having the same topic listed 5 times there...

Wow, this round...seems like all the best levels ended up in this bracket, whereas in the first bracket of this round I had trouble even finding two that I was willing to vote for.

namida · « **Reply #36 on:** January 03, 2015, 12:14:35 AM »

Heh. I actually thought I knew exactly what two were going to win this set... looks like I am right about one of them, but the other is tied in second place. O_O

Minim · « **Reply #37 on:** January 04, 2015, 09:14:21 PM »

Looking at the poll now, I see "It's hero time" edging just ahead. Not what I went for but never mind. Should we put the results in?

namida · « **Reply #38 on:** January 05, 2015, 06:21:39 AM »

HOLY. SHIIIIIII...

Qualifying levels are:

* Tricky 19 "Postcard from Lemmingland"
* Mayhem 03 "It's hero time!"
* Mayhem 20 "No added colours or Lemmings"

I thought from the start that the last two were going to make it through; I NEVER expected Tricky 19 to tag along with them. If anything else was going to, I expected Mayhem 7.

Round 5 is up now. This is where decisions are going to be their toughest, I'd say..

namida · « **Reply #39 on:** January 07, 2015, 09:42:13 AM »

Qualifying are...

Anyone wanna guess...?

Yep,
* Mayhem 3 "It's hero time!"
* Mayhem 20 "No added colours or Lemmings"

The final round is up!

Proxima · « **Reply #40 on:** January 07, 2015, 01:41:29 PM »

No!!! I completely missed Round 5

Can you at least post the counts so that I know whether my vote would have made any difference?

namida · « **Reply #41 on:** January 07, 2015, 01:58:44 PM »

Quote from: Proxima on January 07, 2015, 01:41:29 PM

No!!! I completely missed Round 5

Can you at least post the counts so that I know whether my vote would have made any difference?

IIRC;
Tricky 19: 1
Taxing 6: 2
Mayhem 3: 4
Mayhem 12: 3
Mayhem 13: 3
Mayhem 20: 7
Mayhem 21: 3

So a vote for Mayhem 12, 13 or 21 may have made a difference (unless you also voted for Mayhem 3); anything else wouldn't. That is assuming I'm remembering right; this adds up to 23, meaning someone only voted for one level OR I missed one vote; and the only ones I'm not certain about are Mayhem 3 and 20 themselves. I do remember for sure Mayhem 3 was ahead of the othes, and Mayhem 20 was ahead again of that one, by quite a bit.

Proxima · « **Reply #42 on:** January 07, 2015, 02:08:24 PM »

Yeah, I would have voted for Mayhem 13 and Taxing 6 (and if Mayhem 13 had gone through, would have voted for it in the final). But it looks now like one level is running away with the overall lead and my vote wouldn't have made any difference to that

namida · « **Reply #43 on:** January 07, 2015, 02:10:09 PM »

Quote from: Proxima on January 07, 2015, 02:08:24 PM

Yeah, I would have voted for Mayhem 13 and Taxing 6 (and if Mayhem 13 had gone through, would have voted for it in the final). But it looks now like one level is running away with the overall lead and my vote wouldn't have made any difference to that

I guessed from the start that this would be the final and the currently-winning one would win; but I expected the final round to be MUCH closer than this. Still, there's plenty of time for the other one to catch up, so...

Prob Lem · « **Reply #44 on:** January 07, 2015, 03:42:25 PM »

What?! I'm the only one who's voted for "It's hero time!" so far?! Seriously?

Will no-one else join the cause?

mobius · « **Reply #45 on:** January 07, 2015, 10:09:07 PM »

this was a tough choice for me.
on one hand, I really love It's hero time because it's tough but has multiple solutions. A classic original 1 of everything puzzle. It's only downside is the time limit which can be quite annoying as I remember it.

I found No added colours much harder, and took me much longer to solve. What I find unique about this level is it has a trick which still isn't over-used in custom levels like many other tricks are. But I like both levels pretty much equally in the end I think.

Interestingly both levels are repeats. Both are also levels which, when I played when I was young and couldn't get past tricky, I was puzzled as to why these two weren't repeated (yet). I always wondered what the arrows on Konbanwa Lemming San could be for

ccexplore · « **Reply #46 on:** January 07, 2015, 10:41:52 PM »

Since namida posted the results for the pentultimate round, I've expressly decided to vote for the level with the fewer votes that round, under the assumption that the other level with more votes previously would likely be in the lead at the moment, so it would make for a closer race. Now of course it could also hilariously backfire (so to speak, I'm not that committed one way or the other) if enough people think and do like me. $:-\$

[According to the current results displayed after I voted, seems like my assumption was correct and it did made the race slightly closer. Just slightly though.]

Quote from: Prob Lem on January 07, 2015, 03:42:25 PM

What?! I'm the only one who's voted for "It's hero time!" so far?! Seriously?

Funny enough, on all the previous rounds I think I've voted for It's hero time wherever it appeared, except for the pentultimate round where I voted for Taxing 6 [Compression Method I] instead. (I started to think it was more special in terms of the technique showcased in the intended solution.)

namida · « **Reply #47 on:** January 08, 2015, 01:39:36 AM »

Looks like I was right in saying "those who prefer the other level just haven't come online" yet; when I logged off last night, one level was winning 6-nil; now the score is 6-5.

Clam · « **Reply #48 on:** January 08, 2015, 07:15:51 AM »

I get the feeling the comments are influencing the votes?

OTOH, the topic would be kind of dead without them... maybe for the next voteoff (ONML?) we could limit comments to after the round?

namida · « **Reply #49 on:** January 08, 2015, 07:20:17 AM »

Yeah, I'm planning to do ONML next. Maybe even do a couple at the same time.
And, that's not a bad idea.

Tiduas · « **Reply #50 on:** January 08, 2015, 10:03:58 AM »

Quote from: namida on January 08, 2015, 07:20:17 AM

Yeah, I'm planning to do ONML next. Maybe even do a couple at the same time.
And, that's not a bad idea.

I would love to see a vote about the levels from ONML. I know those levels a little better since I more recently played through the game, will be fun to see what everyone else thinks about them as well.

When you say "Maybe even do a couple at the same time" do you mean more voteoffs for more games at the same time? If so I think it might be better to only have one active at a time since people could loose interest if there's too much going on at the same time. Or maybe it's just me, I don't know ^^

namida · « **Reply #51 on:** January 08, 2015, 10:05:16 AM »

Yep, that's what I was meaning. Maybe run some of the smaller ones (X91/92, Covox, Prima) at the same time as Oh No.

Prob Lem · « **Reply #52 on:** January 08, 2015, 02:29:40 PM »

Quote from: Clam on January 08, 2015, 07:15:51 AM

I get the feeling the comments are influencing the votes?

Haha, well, for my part, I was honestly only joking when I made my comment about the lack of votes for "It's hero time!".

I didn't figure it'd influence anyone's opinion of the levels up for voting.

Minim · « **Reply #53 on:** January 08, 2015, 06:06:38 PM »

"It's hero time" captures my vote. Beautiful puzzle with plenty of places where the player could easily go wrong. Nice layout, and has a few extra solutions too, even with the 1-minute time limit, the 100% and the 99 release rate. The only 1-per skill level in existence, and it is very well crafted and planned.

After my vote, I see that it is very close. I wish I could see what everyone voted for, like some forums do, but I can't; only getting to see whether they feel like posting their vote or not.

Crane · « **Reply #54 on:** January 08, 2015, 07:14:04 PM »

Aww, that is such an unfair choice!! Both of those levels are legendary in their own way.

namida · « **Reply #55 on:** January 08, 2015, 08:17:40 PM »

Quote from: Crane on January 08, 2015, 07:14:04 PM

Aww, that is such an unfair choice!! Both of those levels are legendary in their own way.

You're probably far from the only one who thinks that.

I remember someone was saying they weren't sure if they wanted to vote this round at all (I assume) because of which two levels.

Ramon · « **Reply #56 on:** January 08, 2015, 11:59:25 PM »

I really like "It's Hero Time" due to its style (1 of each skill, 1 minute time limit), but I ultimately chose "No added colours or lemmings" because I believe it's pretty much the only level from original Lemmings that I cannot reliably solve anymore even though I remember the solution was something ingenious. (This is of course not my only criterion, but there's just something about this level...)

keiya · « **Reply #57 on:** January 09, 2015, 12:43:29 AM »

I only just recently finished Mayhem for the first time, so my perspective is rather different, but I voted for

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It took me to juuust before I got significantly frustrated with it and then made me feel like a genius after beating it, which is the hallmark of a perfectly balanced level.

namida · « **Reply #58 on:** January 10, 2015, 03:44:39 AM »

Alright, WE HAVE OUR WINNER!

As voted by the Lemmings Forums community, the best level from the Original Lemmings game is...

Mayhem 20 - "No added colours or Lemmings"

I have to say, I was pretty sure from the start this level was going to win (and if not, it'd be either Mayhem 3 or Mayhem 13). My favorite Orig level is Mayhem 12, but I was fairly sure that one wouldn't win - I was surprised to see it get as far as it did. xD

Thanks for voting! I'll put the next voteoffs up soon - probably what I'll do is the ONML one, and at the same time (seperate topics), some of the smaller packs (one of these at a time of course); ie: Covox, Prima and X91/92.

(An alternative possibility - perhaps just add the X91/92 levels into the H94 voteoff, and the Covox and Prima levels into the Extra Levels voteoff?)

Poll

FINAL ROUND - Vote for ONE level.

Author Topic: Original Lemmings Level Voteoff (WINNER: Mayhem 20) (Read 19229 times)

Mariachi Skeletron Prime