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Offline Prob Lem

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Lemmings Touch first impressions
« on: May 29, 2014, 01:07:19 AM »
As we all know, the PS Vita game, Lemmings Touch - the first new Lemmings installment in quite a few years - has finally been released.



I grabbed it quite literally as soon as it was added to the UK PlayStation Store earlier, as I was waiting and refreshing constantly until it appeared! :D I've got a couple of hours with the game under my belt, now (I've completed the Tutorial levels, and "Easy" - which is what's replaced Fun - and I'm currently a bit of the way into Tricky). What follows are my impressions so far.

The Good

Lemmings Touch is insanely well-polished and lovingly-created; It's blindingly obvious that it's been made by people who care about the series, and the developers, d3t, absolutely must be commended for this. In that regard, this is the game that I'd hoped for for a very long time - it's really how the series should have been treated from the moment Sony fully absorbed Psygnosis' operations into Sony Computer Entertainment Europe, instead of just letting a very well-known series fall into obscurity as they did.

The new additions - both the interactive-object mechanics (i.e., the movable blocks and platforms, and, whilst not new to the series, the significantly-altered-for-this-game cannons and trampolines), and the very endearing Mischievous Lemmings - work pretty well, and change up the dynamic a fair bit, as does the one/two/three-star grading system used to mark your performance in the levels (this is used to unlock the entirety of the game's levels as you go along, so it's a good idea to get into the habit of getting three stars for each level from the get-go). To the best of my knowledge, this is the first time properly new mechanics have been added to the series since Lemmings Revolution way back in 2000, and it all adds together to keep the pace nice and quick. The game is perfectly suited to being on a handheld console, as its design lends itself equally well to playing for both minutes or hours.

The controls feel right. I was a bit skeptical when I first heard about the game, but they actually do work pretty well. There are some issues, but I'll get to those later.

Due to the control method used (which involves picking a Lemming first and tapping him to pop up the skills menu, which will remain on-screen and directing this specific lemming until it's dismissed; You then tap skills as and when they're needed), Lemmings Touch's focus seems to be on execution-heavy puzzles. You know the ones - the kind where you've got to get things just right, and where the designers have not been overly generous (or usually not in any way generous at all) with the amount of skills at your disposal. If you're fond of these types of Lemmings puzzles (as opposed to, say, the multi-tasking heavy ones, which just don't seem to be possible in this format), then you'll probably like Lemmings Touch a lot.

The game retains some niceties from the PSP version, such as the visible helmets and umbrellas so that you can see at a glance which lemmings have been assigned Climber and Floater skills. These remain as handy as they were before.

There's bags of character in the game, too - the detail in the landscapes and the lovable animations effortlessly evokes the series' past glories (reminding me particularly fondly of both the original Lemmings, and Lemmings 3D). (EDIT: Also, a nice touch is that the game's background planes shift if you move the console around during play. It even does this on the title screen.)


Just look at this Candy Land level screenshot, for example. There's even writing running down the middles of the sticks of rock, as is typical of such sweets in the UK. This, in particular, reminded me of Lemmings 3D (which I suppose it would, since that's the only other Lemmings game that I know of to feature sweets-themed levels), and caused a great big smile.


The Lemmings also look arguably cuter and cuddlier than they have ever looked during the "Sony Era". I never liked the design implemented with the promotional artwork of the PSP version - I always thought that it made our fair rodents look like freaky, beaky bird-people. There have been some tweaks to that look for Lemmings Touch, though, and I think the game's visuals are all the better for it (it's human nature for unappealing-looking characters to be off-putting, after all).

Also, I don't know if it's a genuine reference or just a coincidence (I actually suspect the former, for reasons I'll explain in a moment), but we also see a return of the lemming-head coins first (and last) seen in Lomax. They have an actual use as in-game currency this time - you earn them by pulling off often-ridiculous tasks, and they're used to "buy" various costume items and colour-customisations so that you can tweak the look of your in-game lemmings. (The PS Vita's system-wide screenshot capability brings this otherwise-superficial feature into its own, as it lets you capture these tweaks so that you can use them as avatars or whatever.)

Speaking of Lomax, try flicking your eyes between these two screenshots quickly;




I'm sure this isn't just me: The Mischievous Lemmings (placed on the pre-level screens to show how many of each type of lemming will be in a level) really do seem to be channelling a fair bit of Evil Ed, there, don't they? :thumbsup:





The Mischievous Lemmings also keep shoving and glaring at the regular lemmings every-so-often, too, which nets a shrug from the good guys. I find this both cute and amusing.

Like I said, they're really endearing, which has surprised me, as the reaction I initially had to their appearance at the end of the original trailer in September 2013 was "Oh dear...", followed quickly by, "... These guys look like some sort of awful effort to try to sell Lemmings to people who would never buy it anyway...". A brilliant lesson in not judging a book (in this case, over-the-top advertising renders) by its cover! :) Unfortunately, their endearing nature leads to a down-point, which I'll get to shortly.

This brings me neatly on to...

The Bad

A bug, identical to one in the PSP Lemmings game, regarding Walkers passing through Blockers, exists in this game. It seems to be most noticable in level(s?) brought over from the PSP version where this issue reared its head originally. I have no idea why this is present, though - d3t did not develop the PSP version of Lemmings, and though they were the ones who ported it to mobile phones years later, I don't imagine that Lemmings Touch is running on that same game engine. This is only a minor quibble, but one worth mentioning nonetheless, as it requires you to take extra care when placing Blockers on uneven terrain.

The skills menu will take some getting used to for long-time Lemmings players. Your instincts will want to tap skills and then tap lemmings, but this is now reversed - you must tap a lemming and then tap skills as and when they're needed, whilst not forgetting to switch to other lemmings when you need them to carry out tasks. This is not actually a bad thing, per se, but it will trip up series veterans a fair bit until you get used to it. ;) If you've previously played the PS Mobile port of the PSP version of Lemmings, this control method expands on that.

Sometimes, the skills menu is not as responsive as it could be, meaning that puzzles expecting you to pull off split-second skill-changes (for example, from Basher to Builder, whilst one pixel away from stepping off of a ledge that's too high for a lemming to survive falling from) are too easy to fail at, leading to repeatedly having to start again. In and of itself, this is not a fault of the game, as inaccuracy is actually an inherent flaw of capacitive touch-screens (as the PS Vita uses, the same as most mobile phones and tablets do). However, some of the puzzles impacted by this are *new ones*, not levels brought in from past games, which makes it a bit less forgivable, even bearing in mind the nature of such screens.

Speaking of levels brought in from past games, there seem to be too many of these. It was quite disconcerting to find that the first level you encounter after completing the five tutorial levels is one from the very first game! I'm now part of the way through Tricky, and there seem to have been old levels (from the original and PSP games) thrown in every one or two stages, so far. The levels showcasing the new mechanics show off the game far better (and are often more madcap and, by their very nature, novel), and are really great fun, so it's a shame that so many of these older levels dilute the new experiences so early on... This also means that I haven't yet seen the Mischievous Lemmings since their debut in the Tutorial section! :( This is the down-point that I mentioned in relation to them, before - once you've played the tutorials, you're immediately left wanting to see more of the new stuff that was designed for/around this game and its controls and features.

One control aspect that's a little bit niggly at times is the selecting of the correct lemming to assign tasks to. Whilst you can hit left and right on the d-pad to move between them, if you've got huge numbers of lemmings right next to each other in a group, it can't hop between them fast enough, and you can end up losing lemmings no matter how quick on the draw you are. This can sometimes cause you to fail to achieve a three-star ranking on levels, either through wasting time, or by losing too many lemmings.

The difficulty is largely good, but sometimes gets a bit unbalanced - I found that, before I'd even left "Easy", there were levels were it was unfairly difficult to achieve a three-star ranking. Since these stars are necessary to open up all of the levels in the game as you go along, this can become a little frustrating and annoying when it crops up.

And, for the last bad point (well, it's more an interconnected set of them), this game's platform is unfortunately not going to help it in the long-run. Though one would rightly expect a lot of touch-screen usage in a game by the name of Lemmings Touch, the early promotional writings for the game stated that it was built around all of the PS Vita's controls - but the final game really isn't. It just uses the touch-screen and d-pad (you can optionally use the left analogue stick to pan the camera around, but this is much more easily done using the touch-screen, which is where your fingers will usually be, anyway), and none of the system's other inputs are used (and nor are alternative control options available). The original implication that the game was built around all of the Vita's control options caused me to state in another thread recently that I couldn't see how they would be able to port this game to Android; Playing the actual game itself demonstrates that they very easily could, by either moving the lemming-selecting actions from the Vita's d-pad to on-screen buttons in Android, or even optionally to a phone or tablet's volume-rocker, which would be ideal for this.

Given this, and the fact that the screen has deliberately been kept largely uncluttered, I can see no reason why this game needs to be a PS Vita exclusive at all - as much as I like mine, the console is a dismal failure with almost no traction (I only got mine for some indie titles, a couple of franchises I've never played before which have been ported over, and Lemmings Touch, really), and this game is so good that it deserves a far bigger audience than it will ever get here. Perhaps the scenario I suggest above isn't that far-fetched, and the game maybe will see a port for a wide audience at some point? I can only hope so.

If it doesn't get such a port, I do somewhat worry for the future of the Lemmings series. It's no secret that it's been left to decay since Sony finished absorbing Psygnosis completely (until then, Psygnosis, which was the company that held the Lemmings rights after DMA Design sold them to them, was still run as a separate entity, and Lemmings still appeared on competing, non-Sony platforms), and it's also clear to many of us that famous-name games which don't get retail releases (as Lemmings Touch is not getting) often tend to fall into one of two categories that can threaten an established series - either a game that a publisher is under-confident in and don't want taking up shelf-space they could give to another game or franchise that they have more confidence in, or a series that a publisher is trying to create artificially low sales figures for so as to provide a good excuse for killing it off (something under-promoted digital-only installments in well-established franchises seem to go hand-in-hand with, from what I've seen). I must stress that I DO NOT believe that Lemmings Touch is in either of these situations, here: The problem is that retail is still the biggest venue for games consoles and their games (if you don't believe this, it may be wise to ask yourself why no "AAA" games have ever gone digital-only ;) ), and since Lemmings Touch isn't being released that way, it's going to escape the notice of a lot of people who might well have wanted to know about it. Even though Sony has allowed the series to suffer and decay, Lemmings still has a lot of brand-recognition (that isn't being leveraged, much to my chagrin :( ) among an awful lot of people who simply haven't forgotten it.

Anyway, those are my thoughts so far! I'll sum this up by saying that, if you have a PS Vita, my impression is that Lemmings Touch is really good, and a must-get. Unfortunately, given the surrounding circumstances, I have this gut feeling that even though it's just what the doctor ordered, it might be a case of "too little, too late" for both Lemmings and the PS Vita.

This said, what we really ought to be hoping for (and doubly-so considering Sony's enormous financial difficulties at this time, which is another thing that could potentially harm the series, depending on what happens to their assets should they go under), is a port to Android, as I can't see any use of the PS Vita hardware in the game that would make this unfeasible (they'd have to add in a screenshot function so that you can capture pics of your customised lemmings, I guess? That's all I can think of. :P). And not exclusive to "PlayStation Approved" Android devices, either - that'd be just as fruitless as keeping it exclusive to the PS Vita. Considering that d3t ported the PSP version of Lemmings to the "PS Mobile" runtime, perhaps that notion isn't *too* far-fetched!

Anyway, yes, Lemmings Touch does great justice to our beloved series, all things considered - be sure to show it some support if you can! :D

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings Touch first impressions
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2014, 02:17:03 AM »
Hmm, can you at least pause the game to help with skill assignments?  Or does that disable too many things you can do such that it's of limited value?

I think for touch you kind of have to do "lemming first" selection since touch targeting is inherently less precise than mouse.  With "lemming first" selection you can at least adjust the selection with d-pad before committing it with a skill, whereas with "skill first", either there is no opportunity for adjustments to selected lemming, or it would require an extra tap to "confirm" the lemming selection as okay.  Is it really that hard to get used to for a veteran like you?

Would definitely love to see it ported for general Android.  Is that even plausible right now with Sony in the picture though?  Not familiar with their past or current strategies/policies in the mobile gaming space.

Offline Prob Lem

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Re: Lemmings Touch first impressions
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2014, 05:28:33 AM »
Hmm, can you at least pause the game to help with skill assignments?  Or does that disable too many things you can do such that it's of limited value?
Yeah, you can. There's two pause buttons, in fact - one on the left shoulder-button (which just freezes everything, and lets you pan around, tap a lemming who you want to assign the next task to, and adjust the release-rate), and the other on the Start button (which pops up a pause menu, which has a quick restart option, amongst other things). It's a little strange having two, but it works, since the Start button is small and not so easily reached when you're using the touch-screen constantly.

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I think for touch you kind of have to do "lemming first" selection since touch targeting is inherently less precise than mouse.
Totally agreed. It just seems so weird at first, considering that the norm has always been the opposite. ;)

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With "lemming first" selection you can at least adjust the selection with d-pad before committing it with a skill, whereas with "skill first", either there is no opportunity for adjustments to selected lemming, or it would require an extra tap to "confirm" the lemming selection as okay.  Is it really that hard to get used to for a veteran like you?
No, it's not really that hard at all. ;) I just felt it was noteworthy, especially considering that the d-pad refinement is sometimes a little sluggish. It would help if you could hold down a direction to keep cycling, but as far as I can tell you can't - or else it really didn't show, if you can! I didn't actually try it when paused, incidentally. Must have a look at that later.

Anyway, it's just a bit disorientating at first, especially if you've been playing any of the older games shortly beforehand (which I had been doing). I found that I kept trying to tap skills and then tap a nearby lemming for a little while, which of course just led to the currently-selected lemming getting up to all sorts of disastrous hijinks (which is immensely entertaining, as Lemmings Touch has a hell of a lot of sound effects for that sort of thing). :P Once you're used to it, it works well.

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Would definitely love to see it ported for general Android.  Is that even plausible right now with Sony in the picture though?  Not familiar with their past or current strategies/policies in the mobile gaming space.
I really don't know if it's plausible, though I'd hope it is for the reasons given previously... I'd be amazed if they weren't aware of the fact it would reach a massively wider audience that way, though.

As for the current policies, they have this runtime for Android, "PS Mobile", but it only supports certain phones, and the last time I checked, that didn't include some of the biggest sellers. It's also a bit shonky, as games written for it won't boot unless you have a constant internet connection, which is not really practical on a mobile device. Outside of those, Sony do issue the occasional freebie promotional game on the standard Google Play market - for example, PlayStation All-Stars Island (a well-made and solid little time-waster, with heavy Coke Zero sponsorship), or Ratchet & Clank: Before the Nexus (was much-delayed, and then it turned out to be awful; It did link up with a recent PS3 release to allow you to transfer unlockables over, though).

Considering what was said originally, it feels to me almost like Lemmings Touch may have had its usage of the PS Vita's controls cut back, with later ports in mind. Of course, I could be completely wrong, and simply misunderstood the original promotional blurb, in the first place! ;) I'd like to be right though, for the sake of the positives that such wide exposure would likely have for the Lemmings series.

Offline Luis

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Re: Lemmings Touch first impressions
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2014, 06:26:46 AM »
A bug, identical to one in the PSP Lemmings game, regarding Walkers passing through Blockers, exists in this game. It seems to be most noticable in level(s?) brought over from the PSP version where this issue reared its head originally. I have no idea why this is present, though - d3t did not develop the PSP version of Lemmings, and though they were the ones who ported it to mobile phones years later, I don't imagine that Lemmings Touch is running on that same game engine. This is only a minor quibble, but one worth mentioning nonetheless, as it requires you to take extra care when placing Blockers on uneven terrain.
What blocker glitch? Do you mean the one where you place a blocker on a certain spot of a net and Lemmings will walk through him? That happens when there's a tiny opening below the blocker, that the Lemmings can get through and they avoid the blocker's arms. You can do that in the old Lemmings too.
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Offline NaOH

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Re: Lemmings Touch first impressions
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2014, 06:45:41 AM »
This review is so in-depth and well-thought-out it almost makes me want to buy a PS Vita just to play this and see everything Prob Lem has mentioned for myself. Thank you for taking the time to write this!

Also, I'm glad that this new official Lemmings game has received so much love.

manic23

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Re: Lemmings Touch first impressions
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2014, 09:53:40 AM »
Great review PL, well done. thanks for letting me know its been released, can't wait to play this.

Offline Clam

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Re: Lemmings Touch first impressions
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2014, 10:42:33 AM »
Quality review from a true Lemmings fan! I doubt most actual game-review websites will top that 8)

Some impressions on the actual game (which I don't plan on getting a PS Vita to play):
- Very nice eye-'candy' :)
- Backgrounds are quite bright and detailed - I sense some foreground-background confusion, like in Lemmings Chronicles.
- Disappointing that they've recycled any levels at all from previous games. Sure, they're great levels, but come on.
- Execution-heavy puzzles plus fiddly controls, very bad combination, many restarts.

Offline Tiduas

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Re: Lemmings Touch first impressions
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2014, 01:58:11 PM »
Nice review! I've almost completed the easy levels and I agree with you on the whole thing.

I just wanted to add that this game actually has a Platinum Trophy to get as well which surprised me a little considering the cheap price. Most people probably don't care but for people like me that like to hunt trophies and such it's a nice bonus.  :thumbsup:
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Offline Prob Lem

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Re: Lemmings Touch first impressions
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2014, 11:03:22 PM »
Thanks for the comments, everyone. :D

What blocker glitch? Do you mean the one where you place a blocker on a certain spot of a net and Lemmings will walk through him? That happens when there's a tiny opening below the blocker, that the Lemmings can get through and they avoid the blocker's arms. You can do that in the old Lemmings too.
It's not on netting but rather on rocky terrain, where the lemmings clearly have collided with the Blocker's arms but just walk on by as if he's not there - it's not something that would happen if you placed a Blocker on bumpy ground in the original game. It occurs in the level "Gather round and break away" (which if memory serves, is repeated from the PSP version, where this issue also occurs), for example.

This review is so in-depth and well-thought-out it almost makes me want to buy a PS Vita just to play this and see everything Prob Lem has mentioned for myself. Thank you for taking the time to write this!

Also, I'm glad that this new official Lemmings game has received so much love.
If you can get a good deal and there actually are some other games you're interested in, I'd say that that may be worth doing. This is definitely a step in the right direction, as it's very true in spirit to the originals. I forgot to mention this when I was writing up my first impressions, but the humour and general tone of the game are both pretty much in line with the older entries in the series - the loading, success, and failure screens have a huge amount of amusing quips to deliver.

Great review PL, well done. thanks for letting me know its been released, can't wait to play this.
Glad to be of help! :thumbsup:

Quality review from a true Lemmings fan! I doubt most actual game-review websites will top that 8)
Wow, thanks very much. :)

I really hope that this overview is helpful to people, as personally I rely on the thoughts of other real players when considering a game myself, and I think it's good to feed back into that same sphere for others who do the same. I can't go by modern-day print and web outlets, as they just seem to be far too buddy-buddy with their advertisers - who just so happen to both pay their bills *and* provide them with free games for keeps. I'm sure I'm not the only one who is this way; The 1990s Amiga games magazine, Amiga Power (whose policy was to serve their readers, not their advertisers, which made them public enemy number one in the eyes of some publishers) did a great write-up about professional games reviewing that not only was true back in 1995 when it was written, but is, if anything, even more true now!

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Some impressions on the actual game (which I don't plan on getting a PS Vita to play):
- Very nice eye-'candy' :)
Haha, candy. Nice. :thumbsup:

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- Backgrounds are quite bright and detailed - I sense some foreground-background confusion, like in Lemmings Chronicles.
The foreground/background confusion, surprisingly, isn't really an issue. As I mentioned, the background planes move a little as you move the console, and though it's quite subtle, it (combined with the fact that all background elements have a distance-blur effect on them) seems to prevent the problem entirely, as the sensor is very sensitive to being moved indeed. This makes it sound like it would be annoying, but it's just completely unnoticeable unless you're looking.

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- Disappointing that they've recycled any levels at all from previous games. Sure, they're great levels, but come on.
I've just finished another level (I had to load the game up in order to double-check which level I was thinking of when responding to Luis' quote above, and I figured "Why not?" :P), and found that the next two are from the original game. :(

The loading screens are tormenting me with tips relating to features I have yet to even encounter. For example, there's one relating to what happens when firing Climbers out of cannons (it sounds neat), but I haven't even seen a level containing both cannons and that skill yet! Same goes for the mentions of the fact that you can assign skills to Mischievous Lemmings to aid in solving levels, even though you can't allow them to get to the exit. I'm really hoping that the majority of the new content isn't all stuck towards the end of the game, as that would be almost tragic, considering how good the new stuff is!

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- Execution-heavy puzzles plus fiddly controls, very bad combination, many restarts.
I've always been quite fond of the execution-heavy puzzles, myself, but the restarts thing definitely can definitely be an issue.

Nice review! I've almost completed the easy levels and I agree with you on the whole thing.

I just wanted to add that this game actually has a Platinum Trophy to get as well which surprised me a little considering the cheap price. Most people probably don't care but for people like me that like to hunt trophies and such it's a nice bonus.  :thumbsup:
Glad to see someone else regarding the game well! :)

As for the Trophy thing, I don't follow those things myself, so I never looked into that. Thanks for adding the info here! :thumbsup:

EDIT: While I'm here, I just encountered another niggle with the d-pad refinement of the selected lemming, which very much bears mentioning. Once you reach the furthest-along lemming in whichever direction you're trying to select said lemming in, it won't keep moving further along, even if other lemmings are directly aligned with him. This is a problem if you're assigning a Blocker to try and stop a crowd from leaping from a cliff, for example - the other lemmings who were next to the one you selected will keep walking onward, unaffected by the Blocker, almost as if the game considers them to be further ahead of the one you were selecting. This can wreck some attempts at puzzles.

Offline Luis

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Re: Lemmings Touch first impressions
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2014, 11:33:54 PM »
It's not on netting but rather on rocky terrain, where the lemmings clearly have collided with the Blocker's arms but just walk on by as if he's not there - it's not something that would happen if you placed a Blocker on bumpy ground in the original game. It occurs in the level "Gather round and break away" (which if memory serves, is repeated from the PSP version, where this issue also occurs), for example.
Oh that I have known about. The blocker in the PSP is not as good as the one in the old Lemmings unfortunately. I think the game was just rushed because there's so many signs in the game that shows that. I don't know if their intention was to make a remake of the original game with a different engine, while keeping the levels exactly the same or not. With the walking speed being slower and Mayhem 16 having two minutes, I guess not.

Edit: I was watching a video and noticed that A to B has ten seconds more than the one in the PSP and you can beat it by only giving the Lemmings the climber and floater. I thought she was gonna lose when she gave them that and fast forwarded. :P The other returning special levels has different times too. It looks like the game does use the same engine as the PSP. The walking speed seems about the same. I have tested how long it took the first Lemming to reach a certain terrain on both the Vita and PSP. I also tested how long it took the first Lemming to reach the exit in Crystal point. Both the PSP and Vita took 1 minute and 45 seconds or close and this is without stopping the builder with a different skill. If they keep rehashing the same engine, that PSP blocker will never go away, unless someone tells them about it and they patch the game.

On Easy 5 which is Lemmings toast, try going to the left by making the Lemmings dig and use a builder. Bash through the terrain near the exit and build to the terrain that the hand is holding. After he land on the terrain, check and see if the Lemming will fall through the flamethrower.
Mr. Lemmings PSP user.

Offline Prob Lem

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Re: Lemmings Touch first impressions
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2014, 01:36:24 AM »
On Easy 5 which is Lemmings toast, try going to the left by making the Lemmings dig and use a builder. Bash through the terrain near the exit and build to the terrain that the hand is holding. After he land on the terrain, check and see if the Lemming will fall through the flamethrower.
I'm not sure I can pull that off, but the more I play of the game, the more it feels like they did closely replicate or just outright port over the PSP physics.

Incidentally, the more I play of it, the more I also get the feeling that this may not have started off as a PS Vita title. I know I alluded to it before, but every physical control it has (which isn't a lot) could either easily be done on a touch-only device, or would actually work better that way. And not only that, the repeated levels are starting to make me think this, too: They're what I'd imagine to be a decent way of expanding the size of a game meant to be sold at a lower price than the PS Vita price, which could have really been meant for audiences who might not have ever played a Lemmings game before. With this angle in mind, the repeats make a whole lot less sense on the PS Vita, which is aimed squarely at a market that's fairly likely to have seen them before.

If I'm anywhere near close with this crazy speculation, and it really didn't start off on the PS Vita, I wonder what made them opt to move it there? Perhaps skittishness from Sony about putting a big-name franchise that they've come to own (that they've nonetheless neglected) on non-exclusive hardware? Maybe I'm just trying to find logic where there's no need to do so, or where none really exists, haha. :D Whatever the case may be, I stand by my previous point that Lemmings really needs to be focussed on or moved to wide-audience mobile platforms in order for it to thrive - after all, when it thrived originally, it was due to its presence on multiple widespread platforms, and every installment that hasn't hit those heights has been an installment that didn't get widely ported.

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Touch first impressions
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2014, 03:32:49 AM »
^ But did they not have the appeal because they weren't ported? Or were they not ported because of lack of appeal? I have to say, personally, I found L2 to be only average, and L3 horrible, compared to the original. L3D was fairly good though, and Revolution was quite impressive - now notice that these two (at least in some aspects) go back to basics? IDK haha. Just my random incoherent thoughts on it.
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2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline Luis

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Re: Lemmings Touch first impressions
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2014, 04:26:10 AM »
On Easy 5 which is Lemmings toast, try going to the left by making the Lemmings dig and use a builder. Bash through the terrain near the exit and build to the terrain that the hand is holding. After he land on the terrain, check and see if the Lemming will fall through the flamethrower.
I'm not sure I can pull that off, but the more I play of the game, the more it feels like they did closely replicate or just outright port over the PSP physics.
You can watch this replay in Lemmix to help how to do it. The replay is attached to this post. Download Lemmings toast here: http://lemmings-db.camanis.net/levelpack/ag1zfmxlbW1pbmdzLWRichYLEglMZXZlbFBhY2sYgICAgKCSnwoM/

Incidentally, the more I play of it, the more I also get the feeling that this may not have started off as a PS Vita title. I know I alluded to it before, but every physical control it has (which isn't a lot) could either easily be done on a touch-only device, or would actually work better that way. And not only that, the repeated levels are starting to make me think this, too: They're what I'd imagine to be a decent way of expanding the size of a game meant to be sold at a lower price than the PS Vita price, which could have really been meant for audiences who might not have ever played a Lemmings game before.
I'm not sure how touch controls can be better than buttons and keyboard. I think with buttons and keyboard, you can do multi tasking more easier. The fact that this has repeated levels means we might never see a new Lemmings game with 100+ that are not from previous games, except the ones made by fans because they have more free time to work on Lemmings than Sony does. They even said it will have both new and old levels here in the second paragraph: http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2013/08/gamescom_2013_wait_theres_a_new_lemmings_game_on_the_way

With this angle in mind, the repeats make a whole lot less sense on the PS Vita, which is aimed squarely at a market that's fairly likely to have seen them before.
I'm pretty sure the new audience aren't going to noticed those levels are old, if the game was meant to target those people. If they wanted to bring back those levels, it would have been more interesting to have those levels with the new features added to them, like the evil Lemmings. This will effect the old solution but it will make the level look new.
Mr. Lemmings PSP user.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings Touch first impressions
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2014, 07:54:30 AM »
^ But did they not have the appeal because they weren't ported? Or were they not ported because of lack of appeal? I have to say, personally, I found L2 to be only average, and L3 horrible, compared to the original. L3D was fairly good though, and Revolution was quite impressive - now notice that these two (at least in some aspects) go back to basics?

Well I think for L3 at least, we can definitely say "not ported because of lack of appeal".  Heck, the game itself was meant to have more tribes that would come out as future expansion packs (or so I've heard), but even that fell through, never mind ports.

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmings Touch first impressions
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2014, 08:03:12 AM »
Yeah. I get the whole wanting to expand the series, move it in new directions; I'm certianly not saying L3 was a bad idea, just it didn't turn out so great. Not just because of it being incomplete, but it seemed to be losing the "Lemmings" feel. L2 at least kept that; it's more just that I didn't find the level design too interesting, and there were *too* many skills to keep track of - I always found myself trying to remember things like "is this the filler that makes bridges, or the one that fills holes?", or "which direction does this destructive skill go in", et cetera.
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)