Author Topic: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V29)  (Read 33084 times)

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Offline namida

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Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V29)
« on: March 16, 2014, 12:05:48 PM »
For some reason EricLang only ever made a player for Holiday Lemmings 93. ccexplore also didn't change this in his updates. Well, I finally decided to put one together. So it has the full H94 level set (including H93 levels), as well as music! And then more recently than this, I've done players for the Covox and Prima demos as well. And then even more recently again, I've made a player for "extra" levels - the unique levels from Genesis and to a lesser extent various other versions.

Now don't get me wrong, EricLang's effort on Lemmix is nothing short of amazing, but it is a fact that the players on his site are incomplete and outdated versions. Therefore, I've put together this collection of Lemmix players. They're all up to date (using ccexplore's source code; they don't (except CustLemmix) have any of my own modifications apart from adding in the different games' content).

Downloads are available here. On the DropBox link, if you want to download them all at once, just click the "..." icon near the top and there's a "Download as ZIP" option.

DropBox Downloads
Downloads on the NeoLemmix Website

Contains:
  • Original
  • Oh No! More Lemmings!
  • Xmas Lemmings 91/92 (in a single player)
  • Holiday Lemmings 94 (which also contains the H93 levels)
  • COVOX Lemmings Demo
  • Official Companion (Prima Publishing) Demo
  • "Extra" - See below


These are all traditional Lemmix versions, not NeoLemmix ones. They are however based off CustLemmix code, so a very limited selection of NeoLemmix features are supported, in cases where those are exposed to the user (most are relating to files that are internal) - most notably oddtabling and specifying music tracks when using LookForLVLFiles.


The "Extra" player contains some levels that weren't in the DOS versions. Most, but not all, of them are from the Genesis version. It has 8 ranks, although it should be thought of as categories rather than progressive difficulties (similar to LPII Bonus Pack's ranks):
"Genesis": 47 unique or semi-unique levels from Fun, Tricky, Taxing and Mayhem in the Genesis version
"Present": The Present rank from Genesis, 30 levels
"Sunsoft": The Sunsoft rank from Genesis, 30 levels
"Genesis 2P": 3 unique or semi-unique two-player levels from Genesis
"Sega": 12 unique levels from Master System (both versions of each of the five Sega levels, plus "Sixes Not!" and "Stepping Stones")
"PSP": Remakes of 36 unique levels from PSP
"Amiga 2P": 30 two-player levels from the Amiga versions of Orig and OhNo
"Other": 11 other unique levels - (in in-game order) "One Way to Freedom" (Amiga demo), "The Apple Computer Level" (Mac demo), "Go for it!" (Amiga Budget), "Lemming Lament" (Amiga Budget), "Through the graveyard" (Amiga Bookclub), "Going Their Separate Ways" (Mac), "Ohayo Lemming San" (SNES), "It's not over 'til it's over" (Amiga Budget), "Something weighing on your mind?" (Amiga Bookclub), "Don't Make The Wrong Choice!" (Amiga Budget) and "Clouds of Lemmings" (Amiga H93 / H94)


These are based on my own CustLemmix source code, which is in turn based on ccexplore's version of Lemmix, which is ultimately originally made by EricLang. For the levels in Extra, credit goes to many people for decoding and collecting most of the levels; the exception is the Sega Master System levels where both the graphic set and the levels I remade myself.


If you want the DOS musics, simply download the appropriate music pack from here and place it in the same folder as the EXE. (It should also match the EXE name - for example, if the player is filenamed LemmixPlayer.exe, then the music pack to go with it should be LemmixPlayer_Music.dat).

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wwci74rrp9x87i7/AAAh4a7gF89uLVp9iEGSNm5aa
« Last Edit: September 11, 2015, 01:53:06 PM by namida »
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Offline nobody

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Re: Holiday 94 Lemmix Player
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2014, 02:20:30 PM »
Thanks for this. Did you not implement passwords? Because there's no way in hell I'm playing Hail level 3. I tried the easy level codes (i.e. rating + number) that the other versions of standalone Lemmix use, and the original passwords, but neither worked.

Offline namida

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Re: Holiday 94 Lemmix Player
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2014, 07:21:09 AM »
Cheat codes definitely work. Make sure you enter "CHEATCODES" first to activate them.
You can skip any level by pushing "5". (You don't have to enter CHEATCODES first.)

Passwords from the original DOS games have never worked in any version of Lemmix. However, the codes Lemmix itself gives you should work to pick up where you left off.


You're probably aware of the original version having a mixup with whether the last rank is titled "Blitz" or "Blizzard". As the graphic says "Blitz", for this player, I also made the in-game text say "Blitz". Therefore, that also applies when using the cheat codes - make sure you enter "BLITZ", as it won't recognize "BLIZZARD".
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Offline nobody

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Re: Holiday 94 Lemmix Player
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2014, 09:16:29 PM »
Thanks, I didn't realize you had to activate cheatcodes first.

Offline namida

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Re: Holiday 94 Lemmix Player
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2014, 09:06:02 AM »
As per Tsyu's suggestion, these have been updated to include the fixed versions of the first music track each from ONML and H94. I also restored the 3rd track in H94 to the original Amiga one. The included version of CustLemmix is also up-to-date (supports 32-color palettes and has the fixed musics).
My Lemmings projects
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (including H94, Covox and Prima)
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2014, 05:47:40 AM »
Another update. Added players for Covox and Official Companion games. =) I believe this means we've now covered every level officially released for DOS Lemmings, unless Xmas 91 or 92 had any unique levels?

EDIT: It's been brought to my attention (thanks DynaLem =) ) that they do... I'll get onto a player for them at some point. I'll probably combine both into one player though.
My Lemmings projects
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (including H94, Covox and Prima)
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2014, 08:59:28 AM »
I added Xmas 91 and Xmas 92 to the collection. Note that there's just a single player "LemmixPlayerXmas" for both of them, which has two ranks (one for each version). The ONML levels from Xmas 91 are also in there, simply because it was easier to leave them than remove them. (Should also be noted - technically, the player uses a custom MAIN.DAT instead of the one from either X91 or X92 (which are actually identical anyway), though the only thing I changed was the rank signs.)
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (including H94, Covox, Prima and "Extra")
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2014, 04:55:13 AM »
Added an "Extra" player, which contains a lot of the levels that weren't in the DOS version. Most but not all are from the Genesis version. It contains a total of 126 levels, see first post for detailed info. In short, the sources are (all are from versions of Orig, except for one Amiga level that comes from H93/H94):

Genesis version: 105 levels
Master System version: 12 levels
Amiga version: 1 level (H93/H94, not orig)
Amiga special editions: 6 levels
Mac version: 2 levels (1 from the demo, 1 from the normal game)

I added it to the bundle download, but since a lot of you probably already have all the other players that are in it, here's a link for this one by itself:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/c7iqctlk3qhqc27/LemmixPlayerExtra.zip

There's no NeoLemmix version of it yet; there will be with the V1.09n release. Since from V1.09n NeoLemmix is switching to use the (standard) Amiga versions as the level source rather than the DOS versions where applicable, the H93/H94 level in here from Amiga will obviously be replaced with the equivalent from DOS.

NOTE: Although it works, using LookForLVLFiles with this player is probably not the easiest thing to do. The Genesis levels have a hardcoded switch to change their graphic set number (so they use the Genesis ones rather than the DOS ones), not all styles are present (only the ones that are needed for included levels), and there's also one other level that has something hardcoded. I won't say what exactly, but I'm sure it'll be an appreciated detail by those who've played the level in question in its original form. I'd reccomend just use one of the other players for that; up to you though. :P


EDIT: If you're getting crashes saying "cannot find vgaspec511.dat" on the 6th and 12th levels in the Sega Master System levels, redownload it, I fixed it. :) I just forgot to turn off a NeoLemmix flag that NeoLemEdit enables by default - this is exactly the thing that the latest CustLemmix update protects against crashes from. xD
My Lemmings projects
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (including H94, Covox, Prima and "Extra")
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2014, 06:54:31 AM »
So, on this subject, I myself am playing the Genesis levels pretty much for the first time (I've had brief looks and goes at a few of them before, but haven't really properly played through). These are some VERY good levels. o_O I'm currently stuck on the infamous Fall And No Life... xD

EDIT: And as soon as I'd posted this I worked it out. That was BRILLIANT! :O

I'm on Lemmings' Ark now. I've only *just* started trying it so too soon to say too much, but it's already clearly a far better Mayhem 30 than Rendezvous At The Mountain. :P

Beat it. That. WAS. EXCELLENT!!!! And that concludes the Fun-to-Mayhem Genesis levels. Now, Present and Sunsoft...
(Okay, first level of Present, I was like "wtf, aren't these two ranks meant to be really hard?" ... second level wasn't too hard, but definitely a HUGE step up from the first. xD)

Okay, seems Present is just all over the place... I think my old Cheapo packs were more consistent in difficulty than Present is so far; anyone who played them will know how much that's saying... :P
My Lemmings projects
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Offline Prob Lem

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (including H94, Covox, Prima and "Extra")
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2014, 12:14:46 PM »
So, on this subject, I myself am playing the Genesis levels pretty much for the first time (I've had brief looks and goes at a few of them before, but haven't really properly played through). These are some VERY good levels. o_O
They are, and what I like the most about that version is that's almost like a level-pack, since it has so many unique levels that don't appear elsewhere. :thumbsup:

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (including H94, Covox, Prima and "Extra")
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2014, 12:25:55 PM »
So, on this subject, I myself am playing the Genesis levels pretty much for the first time (I've had brief looks and goes at a few of them before, but haven't really properly played through). These are some VERY good levels. o_O
They are, and what I like the most about that version is that's almost like a level-pack, since it has so many unique levels that don't appear elsewhere. :thumbsup:

To tell the truth I'm finding Present to be quite disappointing. The main rank levels were good though, and I haven't started Sunsoft yet. I do really like the concept of Present 29, but the execution is nothing short of annoying. (Though I believe this is partly due to the mechanics of diggers under DOS; most versions implement them in the same way NeoLemmix does so it shouldn't be as much of a problem there.)
My Lemmings projects
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3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (including H94, Covox, Prima and "Extra")
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2014, 11:43:59 PM »
Okay, so I'm about a third of the way through Sunsoft. It's still nothing like what I'd expected based on what I heard about it, but it's still at least pretty good. Definitely a huge improvement over Present. :D And it's getting harder at quite a rapid pace, too.

... just played "No World Without You"; is it just me or was the original versino of this level harder than this repeat? o_O (Of course, I used a similar solution for this one, so that might be why - I'd already worked out the key trick to it. Which is a pretty clever trick, I must say.)
My Lemmings projects
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3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline Proxima

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (including H94, Covox, Prima and "Extra")
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2014, 01:52:05 AM »
... just played "No World Without You"; is it just me or was the original version of this level harder than this repeat? o_O (Of course, I used a similar solution for this one, so that might be why - I'd already worked out the key trick to it. Which is a pretty clever trick, I must say.)

That's what I said back in the Level Review topic  8)

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (including H94, Covox, Prima and "Extra")
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2014, 02:28:05 AM »
Okay, so I'm about a third of the way through Sunsoft. It's still nothing like what I'd expected based on what I heard about it, but it's still at least pretty good. Definitely a huge improvement over Present. :D

I think it's more a relative thing.  People were probably comparing the regular ratings in PC Lemmings on average against the levels in the new Genesis ratings.  There are definitely some duds in the new ratings alongside some gems.

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (including H94, Covox, Prima and "Extra")
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2014, 02:37:21 AM »
Completed all of them now. I Am AT was f***ing annoying... It's like Danger 9 (LPDOS) on steroids. o_O Fall And No Life Part 2 was also, i reckon, a bit easier than part 1; but it was still an AWESOME level.

Some of my solutions are almost certianly backroutes, but oh well. :P Anyway, I attached my replays in case anyone wants to see how I solved them.

By the way - Other 8 ("Don't make the wrong choice"), the exit is one pixel off the ground. Is this actually how it is in the Budget Amiga version, or was that a glitch in the ripping of the level? o_O

(By the way - this is replays for everything in this player, not just the Genesis ones.)


I'd have to say my favorites out of the Genesis levels would be "Fall And No Life" (part 1) and "Lemming's Ark". Both of these levels had me stumped for quite a while, and I thought the solutions were pure genius when I worked them out!
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Zaphod77

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (including H94, Covox, Prima and "Extra")
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2014, 09:10:05 PM »
I see a few problems with this lemmix player (and every other one i've tried).

1) not using dos music. lol.  ok, i know this would be technically difficult, but some of the DOS tunes sound great. (Lemming 1 and Ten Lemmings are my fave DOS tunes)
2) lemmings go yippee when exiting. they should go boing like they do on DOS and AMIGA.  to be fair this could be made a configuration option.  SNES and PSX at least DO go yippee as i recall.
3) direct drop is unintended, and doesn't work on amiga. so it probably shouldn't work in the player.  to be fair it does work in dos lemmings, but if we are replicating that, we should also replicate the DOS music and sounds.
4) levels that should have 100 lemmings have 80 instead (laugh). ok, i know this was inherited from DOS lemmings itself, but i think there should be a version with lemming counts corrected.
5) dos passwords are not accepted. they are properly documented, as I recall, so should be simple to implement (they store your score in them)

But this one is the only one that really needs fixing.

6) last three bricks of a builder should clink to alert you. this DOES work in dos version though it is hard to hear.


Offline Tsyu

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (including H94, Covox, Prima and "Extra")
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2014, 11:38:35 PM »
3) direct drop is unintended, and doesn't work on amiga. so it probably shouldn't work in the player.  to be fair it does work in dos lemmings, but if we are replicating that, we should also replicate the DOS music and sounds.
It actually does work in the Amiga version. Trust me--I've made it happen, and I can do it again.

4) levels that should have 100 lemmings have 80 instead (laugh). ok, i know this was inherited from DOS lemmings itself, but i think there should be a version with lemming counts corrected.
Can you give any examples of such levels?

6) last three bricks of a builder should clink to alert you. this DOES work in dos version though it is hard to hear.
They do make a sound, and it's the same one that's used in the Amiga version.

Zaphod77

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (including H94, Covox, Prima and "Extra")
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2014, 06:40:09 AM »
3) direct drop is unintended, and doesn't work on amiga. so it probably shouldn't work in the player.  to be fair it does work in dos lemmings, but if we are replicating that, we should also replicate the DOS music and sounds.
It actually does work in the Amiga version. Trust me--I've made it happen, and I can do it again.
Yeah. go play 2 player mode. notice that level called "Just for fun or to your doom?"  Hint. it's your doom, even though the lemmings drop onto the exit.  There is code to cause fallers to ignore the exit and go splat.  Until you make a recording of direct drop working on amiga i will not believe it.
Quote
4) levels that should have 100 lemmings have 80 instead (laugh). ok, i know this was inherited from DOS lemmings itself, but i think there should be a version with lemming counts corrected.
Can you give any examples of such levels?
Fun 8 is the first one that has 80 on DOS and 100 on amiga.  if your "amiga" version has 80 it's not the original.
Quote
6) last three bricks of a builder should clink to alert you. this DOES work in dos version though it is hard to hear.
They do make a sound, and it's the same one that's used in the Amiga version.
Okay i can hear the sound, but not over the music, and it sounds NOTHING like the amiga version. 

also sound for raising and lowering release rate, which exists in Amiga, is missing. To be fair, it IS missing from DOS version.

actual Amiga version.  actual sound is a LOT more audible and clanky then what lemmix uses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON0tXh_baKE

Offline Tsyu

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (including H94, Covox, Prima and "Extra")
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2014, 08:08:26 AM »
Yeah. go play 2 player mode. notice that level called "Just for fun or to your doom?"  Hint. it's your doom, even though the lemmings drop onto the exit.  There is code to cause fallers to ignore the exit and go splat.  Until you make a recording of direct drop working on amiga i will not believe it.
I tested that level just now, and it seems that you're right. I even made sure that the lemmings were really falling into the exit's trigger area, and direct drop wasn't working. To definitively verify that direct drop doesn't exist in the Amiga version, I hacked a savestate to include the attached level, which has two streams of lemmings falling from an equal and lethal height, one of which falls in front of an exit; all of the lemmings went splat.

Still, I could have sworn that I got it working before...

Fun 8 is the first one that has 80 on DOS and 100 on amiga.  if your "amiga" version has 80 it's not the original.
Oh, I thought you meant changing the levels that have 100 lemmings to have only 80. (And now that I reread your comment, I can tell that that's clearly not what you meant. Sorry about that.)

Okay i can hear the sound, but not over the music, and it sounds NOTHING like the amiga version. 

also sound for raising and lowering release rate, which exists in Amiga, is missing. To be fair, it IS missing from DOS version.

actual Amiga version.  actual sound is a LOT more audible and clanky then what lemmix uses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON0tXh_baKE
Technically, they're the same sound; the Amiga one is just slower.

Zaphod77

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (including H94, Covox, Prima and "Extra")
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2014, 06:55:45 AM »
Okay, I tried it on another computer, and the sound is properly audible. just not on MY computer. any idea what would cause this?

Offline Prob Lem

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (including H94, Covox, Prima and "Extra")
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2014, 12:30:17 PM »
Okay, I tried it on another computer, and the sound is properly audible. just not on MY computer. any idea what would cause this?
I've encountered this myself on a couple of Linux boxes, and never found a solution, so I'd be really interested to know the answer to this as well!

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (including H94, Covox, Prima and "Extra")
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2014, 04:17:37 PM »
I had that issue myself when using Linux at one point, and as far as I'm aware there's no fix for it. It doesn't actually mute the sounds as such, but rather, it seems to store a few sounds up, then after a while play them all at once. Which isn't really much better. xD

Lemmix (especially traditional Lemmix) doesn't require an overly powerful PC, so if you're using Linux, perhaps running a Windows virtual machine (or dualboot) might be a better solution than trying to run it through Wine? It shouldn't need a particularly recent version of Windows - I can say for sure it works on Windows XP, I haven't tested on anything older though I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't work as far back as Windows 95 (I don't think it'll work on Windows 3.1 though :P). I also can't say I've ever tested it on Windows 8 or 8.1; but my PC is Win7 and runs it without issues.
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Offline Prob Lem

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (including H94, Covox, Prima and "Extra")
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2014, 11:12:44 PM »
I had that issue myself when using Linux at one point, and as far as I'm aware there's no fix for it. It doesn't actually mute the sounds as such, but rather, it seems to store a few sounds up, then after a while play them all at once. Which isn't really much better. xD
Actually, you'll have to excuse me... I was actually getting mixed up, and was thinking of Lemmini! Sorry about that.

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (including H94, Covox, Prima and "Extra")
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2014, 12:36:04 AM »
I had that issue myself when using Linux at one point, and as far as I'm aware there's no fix for it. It doesn't actually mute the sounds as such, but rather, it seems to store a few sounds up, then after a while play them all at once. Which isn't really much better. xD
Actually, you'll have to excuse me... I was actually getting mixed up, and was thinking of Lemmini! Sorry about that.

Ah. Lemmini does seem to sometimes hang for a couple of seconds when a sound is played, then fast-forward up to where it should be, which is very disruptive. It seems that SuperLemmini has fixed this issue though.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (including H94, Covox, Prima and "Extra")
« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2014, 07:07:05 PM »
Alright, so, I went and recreated all seven of these based on the CustLemmix source code; this means that now whenever I update CustLemmix, if any update applies to the player at a whole (and isn't something specific to Cust or Flexi) only, all these players can benefit from the update too. It also means that I can fix any other issues that arise with these players, or much more easily build customized versions of them as nessecary (or custom players altogether).

Here's a list of changes. Note that this may not capture everything that's changed between the previous version of these players and the new one, especially in terms of things that aren't player-specific. If there's anything you'd like to see added, let me know in this topic (or the CustLemmix topic if it specifically relates to that - that one's over in the Level Designing section); though keep in mind I will NOT make any changes to the gameplay mechanics as that kills the whole point of keeping a traditional version; instead you may want to suggest them for NeoLemmix.

Lemmix Players V19
----------------------------
[[ Global changes ]]
*  Pressing 5 to skip a level now only works when Cheat Codes is active.
*  You can now save a level image by pressing I; this works both during gameplay (in which
   case it will save the current state of the level, including lemmings) or on the preview
   screen before a level.

[[ Original ]]
*  Now has the extended version of the Xmas graphic set (no levels use it,
   but for a long time all official graphic sets have been included in the
   Orig player for use with LookForLVLFiles).

[[ Holiday 94 ]]
*  Now has the extended version of the Xmas graphic set.

[[ Xmas 91/92 ]]
*  Xmas 91 no longer has the two ONML levels included.
*  Now has the extended version of the Xmas graphic set.

[[ Extra ]]
*  Added "Ohayo Lemming San" to the Other rank.
*  In the other rank, "It's Not Over Til It's Over" and "Something Weighing On Your
   Mind?" are now in the correct order.
*  Other 10 (formerly Other 9) now displays the objects in correct colors.
*  The special graphics levels (except Sunsoft Special) now play the correct music.


Downloads: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/uh1bqc4cmi1hj0q/AADY-lF_cdyWbA5Vaoc3ekdia
Source code: https://www.dropbox.com/s/m92imjda4mc2yo3/PlayerSource_V19.zip (also includes CustLemmix and Flexi Lemmix)
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V20)
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2014, 11:25:49 PM »
Another update so soon...
There probably won't be so many on this now though (apart from adding the Extra Part 2 player at some point). Unless there's any requested features, I don't really see much more worth adding to traditional. Although one thing I would like to do is properly replicate the pause-for-time glitch...

Lemmix Players V20
----------------------------
[[ Global changes]]
*  You can dump all levels to LVL files by pressing F4 on the main menu. This will not
   preserve oddtabling information, but oddtable-based changes will be applied to the
   output levels. (This option is not available in the Flexi player.)
*  Fixed the flicker in the center of the screen when leaving the preview screen.
*  Removed the "LevelPack" INI entry from players other than CustLemmix.
*  Fixed the issue where all players (apart from Flexi) would save replays based on the
   level name instead of its rank and position; only CustLemmix was meant to do this.

[[ Extra ]]
*  Restored the hardcoded 66% requirement on Sega 3; this was accidentally missing from
   the V19 release.


All downloads can be found from this starting point - just go to the folder of what you're after.
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Zaphod77

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (including H94, Covox, Prima and "Extra")
« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2014, 04:51:21 PM »
I had that issue myself when using Linux at one point, and as far as I'm aware there's no fix for it. It doesn't actually mute the sounds as such, but rather, it seems to store a few sounds up, then after a while play them all at once. Which isn't really much better. xD
Actually, you'll have to excuse me... I was actually getting mixed up, and was thinking of Lemmini! Sorry about that.

No this issue is different. The sound DOES play, but sounds wrong. volume is low and the sound is full of noise, instead of the clean "clink" sound that it's supposed to be.  totally impossible to hear over the music.

Another bug. clicking nuke should play "Oh no!" sound effect when the first lemming is converted into a bomber.  either that, or they all should say "Oh no!" before they explode, but the former is correct behavior.  The latter would be more amusing though. :)

Pausing for time glitch is easy to implement. make the code that plays the intro sound and opens the trap door run even when paused.  But again if we are gonna do that... might as well implement the DOS sound effects and music. :)

Also, amiga has sound effects in places the DOS does not, like increase/decrease rate.

SO here are what I believe the differences between the two.

Amiga has cute intro. :) DOS doesn't. :(

DOS has FM sound effects, amiga has digital sound.  Would like version with DOS musics. :)

Amiga has sound effects for the following things DOS does not.
Increasing/decreasing rate. pitch of sound effect depends on the rate.
Lemming falling off the bottom of the screen.

As far as I know, all other sounds are in fact present in both, including change skill, assign skill, and last 3 bricks clink. They are harder to hear over music in DOS though. Amiga  has better sound.

Amiga doesn't have following glitches present in DOS.
Nuke glitch (should be configuration option)
Pausing for time (should be configuration option)
Direct drop  (should be configuration option)
Continuous shrugger (assigning climber skill to a shrugging builder) this one should just stay fixed. :)
All other glitches are common to both.

Amiga has 2 player mode. this is technically difficult on PC, but there is a possible workaround. use gamepad support, which will put both players on an even footing.

Amiga has cute hand cursor in menus, and cute sleeping lemming cursor during loading. DOS only has cursor during levels, and doesn't accept mouse anywhere else. we should use amiga method and allow mouse throughout.

Amiga has navy blue sky in most levelsets.  DOS only has black sky.  May be true of ALL levels, or all but special levels.

Amiga has graphics that DOS is missing in certain levels.  Levels set completely over water have the water removed to make it easier on your poor 386 cpu. :)  Modern computers can take it, so we should restore the gfx.

Most levels, except for We All Fall Down Mayhem that have 80 in DOS have 100 in Amiga.

Resolution is the same, 320x200.

Other graphical changes. Amiga looks better.

Scrolling system is different on Amiga. you can scroll faster by using right mouse button, but normal scroll is slower then DOS.

Some level requirements and skills are different. requires A/B comparison.

right mouse button for making NON assigned lemming priority DOES exist on both.

Amiga version changes skills using z/x or cursor keys. PC lets you change skills with function keys. We can support both methods.

Amiga version is P to pause. it's f11 on pc. we should go PC, or support both.

There is no escape to abort on Amiga. you MUST click nuke! We should go PC on this for the best version of lemmings.

CANNOT change release rate or skills while paused on Amiga! you can only scroll the screen or click the map to jump. CAN do both in DOS (we should go DOS for this one)

Feature requests. :)
1) visible sound effect for builder clink (optional, feature from Windows Lemings)
2) choice of boing or yippee for level exit.
3) fast forward behavior like Windows version. actual fast forward instead of 10 second skip.
4) DOS music. :)
5) configuration options for switching between Amiga and DOS behaviors when they are different.
6) gamepad support :) suggest following buttons, in order of priority.
Left Mouse
Right Mouse.
(those two work like those buttons in every way)
active skill shift left
active skill shift right
release rate up
release rate down
paws (start button)
nuke. (select button press twice)
abort (start+select)
fast forward

most modern gamepads give you 10 buttons.  this is nine. 

minimal button mapping should be

Left button (can be used to change skills, allow usage while paused)
Right Button
paws

everything else can be done with cursor, if we allow it's use while paused everywhere in game.

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V20)
« Reply #27 on: September 30, 2014, 05:17:50 PM »
Just to make sure you're not simply expecting a different version's sound effect (as it sounds like you're describing the WinLemm sound, which is not the one these players use for the builder warning), is this the sound you're hearing a distorted version of?
My Lemmings projects
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Zaphod77

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V20)
« Reply #28 on: September 30, 2014, 06:24:15 PM »
that is what it sounds like i'm hearing a distorted and quiet version of.  but on the other computer i tested on i can hear it fine over the music. but not my laptop.

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (including H94, Covox, Prima and "Extra")
« Reply #29 on: September 30, 2014, 06:38:53 PM »
(...)

Almost everything you've mentioned here pertains to differences between the DOS and Amiga versions. Traditional Lemmix is supposed to be a reproduction of the DOS versions of Lemmings, so (especially if it's gameplay mechanics) anything that correctly emulates DOS but is incorrect for Amiga is definitely staying as-is.

One thing I will mention is about the continuous shrugger glitch - on DOS, this only happens in Orig. The exact same thing holds true for Lemmix - only Orig, or players based off Orig (CustLemmixOrig, Lemmings Plus DOS Project) have this mechanic; it won't happen under for example the ONML Lemmix player.

If you'd like to create your own version of Lemmix that attempts to emulate the Amiga version rather than the DOS one, the source code is freely available. I'm not going to create a third version, as I'm already maintaining both the standard Lemmix and NeoLemmix, as well as the NeoLemmix Editor and working on my own level pack projects. I'm happy to offer some pointers in the right direction if you need it, though don't expect me to do all the work for you. :)

Quote
Feature requests. :)
1) visible sound effect for builder clink (optional, feature from WIndows Lemings)
2) choice of boing or yippee for level exit.
3) fast forward behavior like Windows version. actual fast forward instead of 10 second skip.
4) DOS music. :)
5) configuration options for switching between Amiga and DOS behaviors when they are different.

1) This is the kind of feature that doesn't directly affect gameplay so may be implementable, but it's not going to be a high priority as that will be quite some work to do.
2) Not going to happen. Changing sound effects is a *very* simple change (you don't even have to alter any code, just swap a couple of files around and rebuild the resources then recompile), so you can create your own version that does this if you like.
3) This already exists. Press F to toggle it on and off.
4) I'd really love to do this one, but as far as I'm aware there's no Delphi library that supports DOS Lemmings's music format. The closest I could do would be, if accurate MIDIs exist of them, converting those to MODs (though converted MIDIs are very large in file size compared to normal MODs). I do have versions of the Master System musics (as Lemmings Plus DOS Project uses these), but that's not the same (though it does have four unique tracks that aren't found in Amiga or DOS, and some tracks (especially London Bridge) are a lot better).
5) As I said, traditional Lemmix is meant to be a replication of *DOS* Lemmings.


By the way, the Amiga version level files are out there if you want. You could use them via LookForLVLFiles. I actually have them handy in some form (I think the raw LVL files plus ODDTABLE; but I can convert that to a LVL file for each level fairly easily). This is because NeoLemmix players are based off the Amiga version levels.
My Lemmings projects
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3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline Tsyu

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (including H94, Covox, Prima and "Extra")
« Reply #30 on: September 30, 2014, 07:03:05 PM »
There is no escape to abort on Amiga. you MUST click nuke!
Actually, there is. Amiga Forever doesn't let you use that control unless you change a setting, though.

Zaphod77

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (including H94, Covox, Prima and "Extra")
« Reply #31 on: September 30, 2014, 07:19:31 PM »

Almost everything you've mentioned here pertains to differences between the DOS and Amiga versions. Traditional Lemmix is supposed to be a reproduction of the DOS versions of Lemmings, so (especially if it's gameplay mechanics) anything that correctly emulates DOS but is incorrect for Amiga is definitely staying as-is.

Understood.  But then why does it have amiga sounds? :) we can easily extract the non music DOS sounds by capture from dosbox in sfx mode.  It'sthe music ones tha are tricky.  That said the dos music is just as tracker like as the amiga.  SO we jsut have to parse the sequencing data (slighly different fromm amiag) and sample the instruments and convert to mod file.
Quote

One thing I will mention is about the continuous shrugger glitch - on DOS, this only happens in Orig. The exact same thing holds true for Lemmix - only Orig, or players based off Orig (CustLemmixOrig, Lemmings Plus DOS Project) have this mechanic; it won't happen under for example the ONML Lemmix player.
Wow. that's actually impressive. how does that affect gameplay? is there a use for it?
Quote
If you'd like to create your own version of Lemmix that attempts to emulate the Amiga version rather than the DOS one, the source code is freely available. I'm not going to create a third version, as I'm already maintaining both the standard Lemmix and NeoLemmix, as well as the NeoLemmix Editor and working on my own level pack projects. I'm happy to offer some pointers in the right direction if you need it, though don't expect me to do all the work for you. :)
I'd do it, but Delphi compiler isn't free.  that's the holdup.  Tell me where to get a working compiler for free and I'll try it.
Quote
Quote
Feature requests. :)
1) visible sound effect for builder clink (optional, feature from WIndows Lemings)
2) choice of boing or yippee for level exit.
3) fast forward behavior like Windows version. actual fast forward instead of 10 second skip.
4) DOS music. :)
5) configuration options for switching between Amiga and DOS behaviors when they are different.

1) This is the kind of feature that doesn't directly affect gameplay so may be implementable, but it's not going to be a high priority as that will be quite some work to do.
Looking forward to it, as it will solve the audio problem i have. :)
Quote
2) Not going to happen. Changing sound effects is a *very* simple change (you don't even have to alter any code, just swap a couple of files around and rebuild the resources then recompile), so you can create your own version that does this if you like.
but boing is accurate to DOS, and yippee isn't. :)  I do think it's cute, but it's not accurate. :)
Quote
3) This already exists. Press F to toggle it on and off.
I didn't know this.  I read the docs and did not know this.
Quote
4) I'd really love to do this one, but as far as I'm aware there's no Delphi library that supports DOS Lemmings's music format. The closest I could do would be, if accurate MIDIs exist of them, converting those to MODs (though converted MIDIs are very large in file size compared to normal MODs). I do have versions of the Master System musics (as Lemmings Plus DOS Project uses these), but that's not the same (though it does have four unique tracks that aren't found in Amiga or DOS, and some tracks (especially London Bridge) are a lot better).
For most songs you can just use the amiga mods and swap instruments.  TenLem and Lemming1 are the most different. that and possible doggie.  I suspect the dos musics could be converted directly to MOD, i just don't have the know how to do it.
Quote
5) As I said, traditional Lemmix is meant to be a replication of *DOS* Lemmings.

By the way, the Amiga version level files are out there if you want. You could use them via LookForLVLFiles. I actually have them handy in some form (I think the raw LVL files plus ODDTABLE; but I can convert that to a LVL file for each level fairly easily). This is because NeoLemmix players are based off the Amiga version levels.

that alone will probably be good enough. i would like the amiga levels, as they simply look better.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (including H94, Covox, Prima and "Extra")
« Reply #32 on: September 30, 2014, 09:22:06 PM »
Understood.  But then why does it have amiga sounds? :) we can easily extract the non music DOS sounds by capture from dosbox in sfx mode.  It'sthe music ones tha are tricky.  That said the dos music is just as tracker like as the amiga.  SO we jsut have to parse the sequencing data (slighly different fromm amiag) and sample the instruments and convert to mod file.

It's at least partly simply a matter of practicality.  Due to historical reasons, the MODs from Amiga version are far more easily found on the Internet (and programming support for them far more easily available) compared with the DOS version.  The purist may also object to converting the DOS music to MOD format as the sampling process is not loseless (especially since IIRC the original MOD format only supports 8-bit samples, no ADSR envelope support for instruments IIRC, and probably has limits on sample size/rate, though those can be compensated through using an extended MOD-like format such as XM).

Alone the same line, it is somewhat of a historical/practical reason that Lemmix sticks with DOS Lemmings mechanics.  It's certainly intentional on my part as it is clear that on this forum DOS Lemmings is the most popularly played port, the one port that I can actually claim to have bought and own at some point, and I also happened to have the most technical know-how for reading that port's game programming, so that's why when I helped Erik with Lemmix's game mechanics we based it on DOS Lemmings.  It has been talked about from time to time to extend support to other popular ports like Amiga and Mac, but ultimately neither Erik or I had the time nor inclination to make a serious effort on that front so far, and certainly demand for it has been low.

Quote
One thing I will mention is about the continuous shrugger glitch - on DOS, this only happens in Orig. The exact same thing holds true for Lemmix - only Orig, or players based off Orig (CustLemmixOrig, Lemmings Plus DOS Project) have this mechanic; it won't happen under for example the ONML Lemmix player.
Wow. that's actually impressive. how does that affect gameplay? is there a use for it?

I guess it's an obscure way to get a lemming who finishes building to start walking sooner.  Clearly it is possible to construct a level requiring that glitch, but it's fair to say it is of limited use besides a chuckle. ;P

I'd do it, but Delphi compiler isn't free.  that's the holdup.  Tell me where to get a working compiler for free and I'll try it.

Hmm, I distinctly remember downloading it from the Internet, but it was a long while ago.  Note that IIRC Lemmix uses Delphi 6, while even at that time when I downloaded, Delphi had moved on to higher version and considered v6 obsolete I believe.  So it might even have been a free legal download (maybe, honestly don't remember not that I would've cared one way or another at the time) from Borland or whoever had the rights to then-current Delphi at the time.

In worst case I can try and see if I can dig up what I have on my one old laptop that still has it installed, if you are not concerned about ownership/licensing.

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V20)
« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2014, 02:44:36 PM »
I'm not sure about the original Lemmix source, but all versions that I've compiled have been done in Delphi 7. I've *ahem* pointed him in the direction of where to find it via PM.

Also - rather than keeping the three seperate versions of Flexi (Orig, OhNo and Cust), I'm going to in future versions make it selectable in the SYSTEM.DAT on a per-mechanic basis for every mechanic that differs between these; mechanics that are consistent between all three will not be adjustable (except for the two that already are; namely the instant vs timed bombers and the one-way-right miner bug).

Likewise, I'm going to similarly change CustLemmix, and make it configurable in the INI file which set of mechanics to use rather than have three seperate players.
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3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V20)
« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2014, 04:31:08 PM »
Alright, in regards to the pause-for-time glitch, I now have it implemented correctly during normal gameplay (except for one thing - the window opening sound doesn't play until you unpause; but this is a minor detail - mechanics-wise it functions accurately fixed that detail). I still need to implement handling of it in replays, but I have a very good idea of *how* I'm going to implement it. I've now implemented it in replays too.

That aside - for the next update, what do people think about the disabling clicking the skill bar while paused? Keeping it as-is replicates DOS accurately, but since you can still select while paused via the F keys, there's ultimately no impact on gameplay mechanics, only on the user interface. (It's a VERY simple change to make.)
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3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Zaphod77

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V20)
« Reply #35 on: October 01, 2014, 05:11:29 PM »
I think disabling the hotbar should be a configuration option, and that if we are disabling the clicks, we might as well disable frame advance and fast forward while we are at it.

I think we are trying to make a BETTER dos lemmings then the original but one that's bug for bug compatible so all solutions that work on vgalemmi.exe work on lemmix player.   NOT disabling clicking on the bar is an improvement that should remain in my opinion. it allows for greater control by using mouse only.  It's an artificial barrier to execution of your solution that ultimately doesn't prevent anything. It's just inconvenient.

I think it should be possible to se up a "pure" mode, without any enhancements at all, and the improved mode with fast forward, frame advance, and clicking on the hotbar allowed.

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V21)
« Reply #36 on: October 01, 2014, 05:41:02 PM »
Alright, the update is here.

Lemmix V21
----------------
[[ Global changes ]]
*  The pause-for-time glitch is now implemented properly instead of just offering the rough
   emulation of resetting the timer after two seconds.

[[ CustLemmix ]]
*  There are no longer three seperate versions (Orig, OhNo and Cust); instead the mechanics
   set can be chosen in the INI file (the Mechanics option). 0 = CustLemm, 1 = Orig, 2 = OhNo.

[[ Flexi ]]
*  There are no longer three seperate versions (Orig, OhNo and Cust); instead the mechanics
   that vary between these versions can be configured for the game in question. The default
   (if no configuration options are specified) is equivalent to CustLemm mechanics.


Downloads can be found from here.
There's also an updated  version of LemMain which can set the new options for Flexi.
My Lemmings projects
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3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline Proxima

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V20)
« Reply #37 on: October 01, 2014, 05:49:00 PM »
That aside - for the next update, what do people think about the disabling clicking the skill bar while paused? Keeping it as-is replicates DOS accurately, but since you can still select while paused via the F keys, there's ultimately no impact on gameplay mechanics, only on the user interface. (It's a VERY simple change to make.)

Ugh. I don't understand why you'd want to take away control features from the player. My laptop doesn't have working F keys (they are almost all co-opted for things like changing the monitor brightness) so that would make the game unplayable for me, except when I happen to want bombers. Instead, making new players is a good opportunity to include more control features -- I haven't tried out your players so I don't know whether these are already in -- P as an alternative for pause, and Z/X to select the previous and next skill.

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V20)
« Reply #38 on: October 01, 2014, 05:51:36 PM »
That aside - for the next update, what do people think about the disabling clicking the skill bar while paused? Keeping it as-is replicates DOS accurately, but since you can still select while paused via the F keys, there's ultimately no impact on gameplay mechanics, only on the user interface. (It's a VERY simple change to make.)

Ugh. I don't understand why you'd want to take away control features from the player. My laptop doesn't have working F keys (they are almost all co-opted for things like changing the monitor brightness) so that would make the game unplayable for me, except when I happen to want bombers. Instead, making new players is a good opportunity to include more control features -- I haven't tried out your players so I don't know whether these are already in -- P as an alternative for pause, and Z/X to select the previous and next skill.

Currently, traditional Lemmix disables skill selection with the mouse while paused except by using the keyboard, which is true to how DOS works. I was asking if that should be changed - it seems there's little reason why it shouldn't be, so I'll do that.

I definitely implemented P for pause in NeoLemmix, I don't think I implemented it in traditional yet.

Neither currently implements Z/X for previous/next skill. Previously, Z was used to enable/disable the pseudo-implementation of the pause-for-time glitch, but now that that's been replaced with a proper replication of it, the Z key is free, so I could probably do this for traditional. It might be a bit harder (but should still be possible) for NeoLemmix, due to the variable skillsets.
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Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V20)
« Reply #39 on: October 01, 2014, 07:36:16 PM »
Currently, traditional Lemmix disables skill selection with the mouse while paused except by using the keyboard, which is true to how DOS works. I was asking if that should be changed - it seems there's little reason why it shouldn't be, so I'll do that.

Agreed.  Honestly the DOS behavior feels more like a bug than a feature.  I might go even one step further and also allow for (if not already allowed) skill assignments while paused (similar to Lix or Lemmings 2:  select and click on a lemming while paused, skill will be assigned and game unpauses--though I care less about the latter).

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V20)
« Reply #40 on: October 01, 2014, 07:46:04 PM »
Currently, traditional Lemmix disables skill selection with the mouse while paused except by using the keyboard, which is true to how DOS works. I was asking if that should be changed - it seems there's little reason why it shouldn't be, so I'll do that.

Agreed.  Honestly the DOS behavior feels more like a bug than a feature.  I might go even one step further and also allow for (if not already allowed) skill assignments while paused (similar to Lix or Lemmings 2:  select and click on a lemming while paused, skill will be assigned and game unpauses--though I care less about the latter).

Already allowed. It doesn't unpause the game, it just advances it one frame (as does clicking in midair, or pressing N - the latter doesn't interrupt replays either). Didn't you implement that?
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V21)
« Reply #41 on: October 08, 2014, 11:42:53 AM »
I've implemented P for Pause and Z/X for skill select for the next update (I'll also implement the latter in NeoLemmix in a near-future update; the former has already existed in NeoLemmix for a long time now). Any other last-minute requests?

EDIT: Skill panel while pause has also been re-enabled.

I've also implemented the same two interface fixes (the mouse-on-skillbar one and binding-cursor-to-game-area one) that were fixed in the latest NeoLemmix update.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V21)
« Reply #42 on: October 08, 2014, 12:21:35 PM »
No? Well, here we go then.

Lemmix V22
------------------
[[ Global changes ]]
*  The skillbar now works when paused.
*  The 'P' key can now be used to pause/unpause the game (F11 still works too).
*  'Z'/'X' can now be used to change skills.
*  Fixed the Lemmix-exclusive glitch where moving the mouse onto the skill panel while passing
   over a lemming results in that lemming being treated as under the cursor while it isn't.
*  Fixed the binding of the mouse cursor to the gameplay area after switching to another window
   and back.
*  OGG is now supported for music files.
*  The DOS musics can be supported. The DOS format cannot be supported directly, so instead,
   rips of them in OGG format are used. This would result in a huge filesize, so they're not
   built into the EXE, but are instead available as seperate files, which if present, the
   players will use. (Flexi also supports this, so you can include low-quality musics and
   seperately distribute a high-quality music pack.)
*  The music is now somewhat quietened.
*  The DOS sound effects are now used.
*  All lemmings OhNo during a nuke, which is the correct behaviour for DOS Lemmings.

[[ Flexi Toolkit ]]
*  The Resource Builder will now accept OGG as well as IT files for music. If you want to create
   a high-quality pack to distribute seperately, build one from the OGG files and save the *ARC*
   file (this is your ****_Music.dat file), then build one from the IT files (or lower-quality
   OGGs, whatever) to build into your EXE.


https://www.dropbox.com/sh/n0nmnur3n8lwl99/AABlH68JMTPEX8mp95fhyeAla?dl=0

Note: The DOS music packs are in the "DOSMusic" folder. There aren't any provided for Covox, Prima or Xmas91/92; just create a copy of the Orig ones (or H94 one, for X91/92), as the musics are identical. You can also use the CustLemmix or Extra one instead for Covox/Prima, as all three (Orig, Cust, Extra) are identical up to Track #17, and Covox/Prima don't use anything beyond that.

The OGG support and DOS music pack support will be added to NeoLemmix too in the near future.
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline Wafflem

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V22)
« Reply #43 on: October 08, 2014, 12:38:19 PM »
How about the feature where it still shows you the password when you fail the level?

Also, thanks to you and Zaphod77 for the DOS music and sounds. It brings back a lot of good memories of this game, as I grew up with the DOS version of Lemmings. Can't wait to see them in the NeoLemmix versions, too.

Will you also implement the DOS sounds in the Lemmings Plus games?
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V22)
« Reply #44 on: October 08, 2014, 01:02:17 PM »
I plan to keep the sounds as-is on NeoLemmix, which means there won't be any change to the NeoLemmix versions of LPDOS/LPII/LPIIBonus, or to LPIII. It would feel somewhat out-of-place otherwise.

Traditional versions, it would be an unrealistic task to rebuild LPII or LPII Bonus based on this code, as it doesn't have support for secret levels and gimmicks. LPDOS is more feasible to do (in which case I could also do a music pack for it with proper copies of the Master System musics).

The password thing is a great idea - I'll make a note to do that in the next update. On that note, if the algorithm is known, I'd quite like to implement the actual DOS passwords too.

One other feature on my todo list is exporting the levels with soft oddtabling (ie: level files that contain oddtable references) instead of hard oddtabling (ie: actually generating a pre-oddtabled level). NeoLemmix already has this feature coded for the next version. Also to do for both traditional and Neo, is a function to output images of all levels in one go.
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3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Zaphod77

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V22)
« Reply #45 on: October 08, 2014, 07:09:04 PM »
version number not updated yet. it stills says v21 (but does play the music)

Another bug. fadein and fadeout should be at lemmings framerate.  compare in dosbox, the fadein and fadeout are slow.

music should also fadeout.

Offline Tsyu

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V22)
« Reply #46 on: October 08, 2014, 07:50:30 PM »
I'll make a note to do that in the next update. On that note, if the algorithm is known, I'd quite like to implement the actual DOS passwords too.

The algorithm is known, and a reasonably accurate documentation of it is in the source file of a program called "Lemmings Code Generator," which you can get from Lemmings Universe here. There are some inaccuracies in there, so here are my corrections:

Below is my revised version of the bit table that's in the documentation:
Code: [Select]
nibble 0  | nibble 1 | nibble 2  | nibble 3  | nibble 4  | nibble 5  | nibble 6
-----------|----------|-----------|-----------|-----------|-----------|----------
 3  2  1  0| 3  2 1  0| 3  2  1  0| 3  2  1  0| 3  2  1  0| 3  2  1  0| 3  2 1  0
 8  4  2  1| 8  4 2  1| 8  4  2  1| 8  4  2  1| 8  4  2  1| 8  4  2  1| 8  4 2  1
           |          |           |           |           |           |
L0 %0 F0 S0|S1 L1 0 %1|S2 L2 %2 F1|S4 S3 %3 L3|%4 S5 L4 F2|S6 %5 F3 L5|L7 L6 0 %6
There are two major things to notice here:
  • There are actually eight bits for the level number, not seven, allowing 256 levels to have unique passwords.
  • Some of these bits are labeled with F--these represent the number of times the level was failed. If this number is greater than 15, only the last four bits are used (although Lemmix can alternatively cap that value at 15). Most official versions of Lemmings that use this password system use this feature, but DOS Lemmings does not, although it does accept codes with these bits set. (For some reason, this value is set to 8 upon game startup. It's most likely a bug, so Lemmix doesn't need to replicate this behavior.)

The documentation doesn't mention two-player levels. The codes for these levels are the same as those for the one-player levels, except the level numbers start at 160, and the %, F, and S bits are not set (barring the bug mentioned above regarding F bits).

The seed for the Amiga version of Holiday Lemmings 1993 is actually the same as the one for the original Lemmings: AJHLDHBBCJ.

This isn't part of the original algorithm, but you might want the letters to wrap around in case characters beyond Z are generated, so the first character after Z is A instead of [. (SuperLemmini uses this behavior.)


I think that's it! I might write my own documentation on this in the future, though I make no guarantees.

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V22)
« Reply #47 on: October 08, 2014, 09:13:52 PM »
version number not updated yet. it stills says v21 (but does play the music)

Another bug. fadein and fadeout should be at lemmings framerate.  compare in dosbox, the fadein and fadeout are slow.

music should also fadeout.

Since nothing happens during them, it's not critical, but if you know exactly how many frames it should take (at DOS framerates), I'll look at implementing it correctly.

As for the version number, yep, only the millionth time I've released a Lemmix or NeoLemmix update and forgotten to fix the version number. xD

I'll look at doing the passwords later today.
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Offline Wafflem

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V22)
« Reply #48 on: October 09, 2014, 02:21:30 AM »
There's also the two hidden Fun 31 and Fun 32 levels that are still not in the Extra Player.
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Offline Ron_Stard

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V22)
« Reply #49 on: October 10, 2014, 02:51:14 PM »
Are you planning to add PSP levels to the Extra player?

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V22)
« Reply #50 on: October 11, 2014, 12:15:20 AM »
The five-rank limit takes a bit of work to bypass, including that a different MAIN.DAT layout is needed (because in a standard MAIN.DAT, there's other data both before and after the rank images). For that reason, adding ranks beyond a 5th one is unlikely in the traditional players. Rather, another suggestion that was made at some point was an "Extra part 2" player, which I'll probably do at some point.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V22)
« Reply #51 on: October 13, 2014, 02:04:56 AM »
For the next update - how would people feel about the implementation of some degree of a directional select?

I'll make it clear that I will not make it possible to select a lemming that usually couldn't've been selected. Rather, how this would work is that if you're (for example) selecting Right, and you click somewhere that would've picked a left-facing lemming, the click is simply ignored; this way you still aren't able to do anything that wouldn't be possible under DOS. (I might even extend it to that, if there's a lemming within the cursor that's facing the right direction, and wouldn't be selectable from *that* mouse position but would be from a different position, it'll select him).


Also, the slight issues with looping OGGs will be fixed. (This issue can be fixed simultaneously with NeoLemmix, as the sound/music handling code is the same on both.)
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Zaphod77

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V22)
« Reply #52 on: October 14, 2014, 01:26:57 AM »
Actually i like the second compromise.

The rule should be if the lemming is under the cursor at it's current position, and it can be selected by moving the mouse elsewhere, then it will do it. otherwise it will do nothing.

It does trivialize some levels, but usually, so does frame advance, which we already have, so...

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V22)
« Reply #53 on: October 14, 2014, 01:30:32 AM »
I'll probably do that, then. But I won't be making it to the point of "if you could select this lemming via a glitch, it'll be selected" - only for cases of "if you move the mouse slightly you can select him".
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Zaphod77

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V22)
« Reply #54 on: October 14, 2014, 01:39:43 AM »
THat'a what I meant.

That said, there are two cases i can think of where this matters.

the first case is lemmings milling about in a pit. in this case, you can always select one going the right way by delaying enough.  just repeat the attempt until it works.  If the rule was relaxed here, it would not matter very much.

The second case is selecting a doubled back lemming at 99 release rate. THIS is nearly always truly impossible, because the lemmings going forward will, if it's the initial stream, ALL have greater priority then the ones turned back and there's no space between them.  This is where the selection becomes truly impossible, and any solution requiring that you do this is not valid. Lower release rates can give the same situation, there being no way to avoid a higher priority lemming without also putting another higher priority one under the cursor.


Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V22)
« Reply #55 on: October 14, 2014, 01:42:04 AM »
It can sometimes be possible to select such a lemming in RR99 in certian terrain layouts. It's impossible on a flat surface, but on an angled setup can be done in many cases - I believe ccexplore's 98% solution to Tricky 23 relied on this.
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Zaphod77

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V22)
« Reply #56 on: October 14, 2014, 01:50:27 AM »
quite right, but even that is not always a guarantee. if both lemmings are on the same pixel and the higher priority one is facing the other way, there's nothing you can do.


Offline Proxima

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V22)
« Reply #57 on: October 14, 2014, 11:05:07 AM »
I'll make it clear that I will not make it possible to select a lemming that usually couldn't've been selected. Rather, how this would work is that if you're (for example) selecting Right, and you click somewhere that would've picked a left-facing lemming, the click is simply ignored; this way you still aren't able to do anything that wouldn't be possible under DOS.

I really don't get why this is an issue. Adding better control features makes the game easier to play, and doesn't affect challenges since we only track results for actual DOS and accurate emulation. A Lemmix player with directional select would still count as accurate emulation if we agreed not to use directional select when recording replays for challenges. None of the levels are less interesting or enjoyable with directional select, except for All or Nothing, and that was never a very good level anyway.

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V22)
« Reply #58 on: October 14, 2014, 03:59:25 PM »
The whole point of Traditional Lemmix is to keep 100% compatibility with DOS. I don't mind adding easier control features (such as ignoring if the priority lemming is facing the wrong way), but I won't make it possible to do anything that can't be done under DOS. If I was going to start allowing actual gameplay that DOS doesn't allowed (as opposed to simply fine-control features that still stay within DOS's limitations), then I'd see it as having lost it's value, and thus have no point in maintaining it. For things that go outside of DOS's limitations, that's what NeoLemmix is for.

Thus, why I'm fine with a directional select that ignores lemmings facing the wrong way instead of selecting a different one, or even will select a different one provided there is *a* mouse position from which that lemming could usually be selected. But if it'd be impossible to select that lemming no matter what, then I won't allow for it. (On the other hand, the NeoLemmix mechanic is to indeed simply remove wrong-facing lemmings from the hit test entirely, so it's perfectly possible there to select a lemming that you couldn't select without the directional select feature. Maintaining accurate DOS mechanics was never a goal or a concern in NeoLemmix, the intention was simply to be *based* off them to retain the familiar feel.)
My Lemmings projects
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3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Zaphod77

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V22)
« Reply #59 on: October 14, 2014, 05:49:45 PM »
All or nothing is trivialized by frame advance anyway.

But the case of assigning to a doubled back lemming at high release rate matters.

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V22)
« Reply #60 on: October 14, 2014, 06:13:06 PM »
Another thing I might consider - if people are interested - is adding the Challenge Mode and Timer Mode options that NeoLemmix has.

For those who haven't been following NeoLemmix, these options basically make the skill count / timer respectively start at zero and count upwards, instead of counting down from a limit.
My Lemmings projects
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V23)
« Reply #61 on: October 24, 2014, 04:54:40 AM »
Updated!

Lemmix V23
------------------
[[ Global changes ]]
*  The password is now shown on the postview screen when failing a level.
*  OGG musics now loop properly.
*  Fixed some of the palette entries.


https://www.dropbox.com/sh/n0nmnur3n8lwl99/AABlH68JMTPEX8mp95fhyeAla


I'm also going to make a one-off rebuild of LPDOS based on this engine, to improve the interface, get rid of those pesky external BMPs, improve some of the music-related issues, and allow a music pack to be used (if/when I get around to making one of the Sega musics). As much as I'd like to do the same for LPII and LPII Bonus too, it's not feasible due to the large number of custom features in them; but the only special feature in LPDOS is the instant bombers, so it isn't a huge task. It isn't going to be updated every time there's a player update though; as I said, it's a one-off. In terms of level design and gameplay mechanics, there will obviously be no difference from V7.
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline Wafflem

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V23)
« Reply #62 on: October 26, 2014, 05:29:03 AM »
Another thing I might consider - if people are interested - is adding the Challenge Mode and Timer Mode options that NeoLemmix has.

For those who haven't been following NeoLemmix, these options basically make the skill count / timer respectively start at zero and count upwards, instead of counting down from a limit.

This could work if people want to challenge themselves by solving the official levels in different ways from the original solution under DOS mechanics. It could also be useful for people who want to test levels using those modes.

Another traditional player suggestion: right click for instant release rate 99.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V23)
« Reply #63 on: October 31, 2014, 03:52:10 PM »
A heads up for anyone using the Flexi player: Existing MAIN.DATs will not be compatible as of the next update. The SYSTEM.DAT info will no longer be stored inside MAIN.DAT, instead being in a seperate file. Additionally, this file's format will differ from the existing one. The NeoLemmix Editor will be able to create these new files, in a much more user-friendly manner than LemMain does.

Also, in the NeoLemmix topic, a suggestion came up of recoloring the one-way arrows in the Snow style to make them more visible. It was then further suggested that I should also apply the same change in the traditional versions. This would of course be a purely graphical change (there would be no *mechanics* differences), but even so, as this does have an impact on existing content (even if it's purely graphical), how do people feel about this? I put a poll up so you can vote there; feel free to also reply with any comments on it.
My Lemmings projects
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V23)
« Reply #64 on: November 01, 2014, 05:49:53 AM »
By the way - with the next update I plan to bring the Traditional Flexi player in line with the NeoLemmix Flexi player in that it'll allow for up to 15 ranks instead of 5. :)
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Offline Tiduas

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V23)
« Reply #65 on: November 01, 2014, 08:54:12 AM »
Keep up the good work Namida! I tested Lemmix Player Collection for the first time yesterday and it worked really well, finally get to play these Genesis levels in a easy accessible way.

I think I found a bug though (haven't really tested it a lot). When switching abilities with the keyboard keys and I accidently go to the pause button and try to go left I again I can't with the keyboard keys.
YouTube channel about video game music, retro and indie games.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V23)
« Reply #66 on: November 02, 2014, 07:21:13 AM »
Keep up the good work Namida! I tested Lemmix Player Collection for the first time yesterday and it worked really well, finally get to play these Genesis levels in a easy accessible way.

I think I found a bug though (haven't really tested it a lot). When switching abilities with the keyboard keys and I accidently go to the pause button and try to go left I again I can't with the keyboard keys.

I checked, and found two issues here:
- The Z/X keys stop working altogether when the Digger is selected (regardless of if you try to go further or not); doesn't matter *how* the Digger gets selected. However, if you then select another skill using the mouse (or the F keys), they'll work again, until the Digger is selected again. (NeoLemmix does *not* have this bug)
- Selecting skills via the Z/X keys doesn't interrupt a replay, though this is a minor issue as it won't make the replay play back incorrectly. (NeoLemmix *does* have this bug too)

I'll make sure both are fixed next update. :)



As for the Snow-style arrows, it seems there's quite a lot of support for making the change, though I did notice one vote for no. I probably will go ahead and do this (I've already prepared the modified style, though of course I can just not release it if it's decided against). If the person who voted No doesn't mind, could they explain the reasons why they don't like this idea?
My Lemmings projects
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3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline Tiduas

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V23)
« Reply #67 on: November 03, 2014, 03:54:17 PM »
I'm sorry if this have been brought up before but I can't find any information on which passwords are being used. Are there any possibility to change to an desired level within, for example, the genesis levels? If I have played the first 19 levels and want to start at 20, are there any possibility to do so? :)
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V23)
« Reply #68 on: November 03, 2014, 05:38:17 PM »
I'm sorry if this have been brought up before but I can't find any information on which passwords are being used. Are there any possibility to change to an desired level within, for example, the genesis levels? If I have played the first 19 levels and want to start at 20, are there any possibility to do so? :)

The passwords used in the Lemmix players are unique to Lemmix (they're also different between NeoLemmix and traditional Lemmix; and are different for each game).

Yes, there is a way to choose a specific level. First you must activate cheat mode by entering the correct code on the password screen. In all the traditional Lemmix versions of official games (including Extra and CustLemmix), the code is "CHEATCODES"; while in NeoLemmix, it's whatever it was in the official game.

Once you've done this, you can choose a level by entering the rank name and level number as if it were a password, eg "TRICKY21". Additionally, when cheat mode is active, you can skip a level by pressing 5 while playing it. You don't have to reactivate cheat mode each time you launch the player; if you activate it once, the player will remember that it's been activated every time you run it. (By the way, if you ever want to turn it off for any reason, just enter the activation code for it again.)


Official game (and NeoLemmix) codes:
Original, Prima, Covox - BILLANDTED
OhNo - SLAMRACING
Xmas91/92 - SNOWFLAKES
H94 - ENTERPRISE
Extra - CHEATCODES
CustLemm - SKIPLEVELS

* The H94 code doesn't work on the DOS version, but I believe it does on some other versions such as Amiga

Lemmings Plus series codes:
LPDOS - NIGERFAGOT
LPII - NGGYUNGLYD
LPII Bonus - BARRELROLL
LPIII - HEARTBLEED
LPIII Bonus - FISHSTICKS
HLP - MYSTERYBOX

* Note that cheat codes can't be used to access the secret levels in the standard versions of LPII and LPII Bonus (but they can in LPIII and LPIII Bonus, and the NeoLemmix versions of LPII and LPII Bonus)
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

KOManiacJim

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V23)
« Reply #69 on: November 03, 2014, 06:48:29 PM »
Hello there. I am enjoying the Lemmings games and although I  think that I need more practice to solve the levels, I think that this series of ports are awesome. but I wish that there is windowed mode so that I can record some game footage with Open Broadcaster Software.

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V23)
« Reply #70 on: November 03, 2014, 07:40:29 PM »
That's not likely to happen, unfortunately. I will look into it at some point (though probably not for a while yet), but chances are it'd take far too much work to be worth it. There must be software out there that can record video from full-screen apps, surely?
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3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline Tiduas

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V23)
« Reply #71 on: November 04, 2014, 09:02:19 AM »
Thanks a lot for the cheat codes help! It didn't seem to work at first when I tried the "CHEATCODES"-code but when I exited the game and change the "CheatCodesEnabled" to 1 in the .ini-file, it worked. It was probably I that screwed up somewhere though.
YouTube channel about video game music, retro and indie games.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V23)
« Reply #72 on: November 07, 2014, 04:02:17 PM »
You are using the traditional versions (from this topic), right? If you're using NeoLemmix, the cheat code is different (instead of being "CHEATCODES" in all games, they match what the official version of the game used).


Anyway, as for the V24 update - I've got the Flexi player properly using most of the Traditional-compatible features in the new SYSTEM.DAT, as well as determining the level counts for each rank based on how many levels are present in the level pack file (instead of needing the value to be specified in SYSTEM.DAT); the only one that isn't yet implemented is the level file dumping option. Once that's done, I'll do the other stuff I've got planned for V24, then I can put up the update.

If anyone's wanting to build levels with the Genesis styles, they're going to be officially included in CustLemmix from the next version. Style numbers are 20 through 24, just like they are in NeoCustLemmix. If I remember correctly, I think the latest version of the NeoLemmix Editor already includes these in its configuration.


Still left to do are:
* Cheat codes by rank number instead of rank name. I can probably more or less directly copy the NeoLemmix code for this, so it shouldn't be a big task. Done.
* Make sure that all players have the new version of the Snow style. (My apologies to the minority of people who didn't want it, but it seems the general opinion is that it *should* be changed. It's only a graphical change anyway.) Done.
* Investigate how DOS Lemmings handles objects with Y coordinates less than 0, and make Lemmix handle them the same way. My memory seems to be a bit off on that one; I thought there was some unusual results here but they work fine. Lemmix just doesn't (currently) interpret them correctly. Anyway, fixed now.
* Adjust Flexi to allow for 15 ranks instead of 5. Also as a somewhat pre-emptive move, I'm going to do the same for Extra too. Done.

BONUS: I finally added the "Save All Level Images" option. :)
My Lemmings projects
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V23)
« Reply #73 on: November 07, 2014, 04:49:31 PM »
It seems I forgot to keep a backup of the unmodified versions of Fun 31, Fun 32 and the extra 2P levels from Genesis when I reformatted my PC recently; does anyone have these handy? (I only currently have the NeoLemmix-ised versions handy.) I *do* still have the unmodified version of "One Way to Freedom" and have added that to the Extra player, and I know where to grab the PSP ones from (though haven't added them yet).
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Offline Wafflem

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V23)
« Reply #74 on: November 07, 2014, 04:59:26 PM »
In Orig Extra Levels.dat and Genesis 2P parts 1 and 2, they're uploaded on the Lemmings Level Database.

Tsyu also posted a link of the ripped levels somewhere in the NeoLemmix topic.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V23)
« Reply #75 on: November 07, 2014, 05:24:33 PM »
Thanks, found them. The following levels are added to Extra for the V24 update:

* Fun 31 and Fun 32 from Genesis
* The three unique (or in one case, barely-recognisable) Genesis 2P levels
* The 36 PSP levels
* The 30 Amiga 2P levels (20 from Orig, 10 from OhNo)*
* "One Way to Freedom"

These are in the Orig and OhNo players in the NeoLemmix versions, but since the traditional Lemmix players are based off DOS, I thought it made more sense to put them in the Extra player here.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V23)
« Reply #76 on: November 07, 2014, 06:02:01 PM »
Alright, the update is here. :)

Lemmix V24
------------------
[[ Global changes ]]
*  The Snow style's one-way arrows have been recolored to make them more visible in all
   players that include the Snow style
*  The 'Z' shortcut key now functions correctly when the selected skill is the Digger
*  The 'Z' and 'X' shortcut keys now interrupt replays properly
*  Objects with Y coordinates of less than 0 are now handled correctly.
*  In cheat mode, you can now enter a rank number instead of a rank name, for example,
   you can enter "0314" instead of "TAXING14" (of course, "TAXING14" still works too)
*  Added an option to create images of all levels; press F5 on the title screen to use
   this option

[[ Original ]]
*  Special graphics level musics are now determined based on the use of a special
   graphic, rather than on fixed level positions, just like in DOS Orig

[[ Extra ]]
*  Added "Test map" and "flag test map", hidden levels in the Genesis version, to
   the Genesis rank
*  Added the three unique Genesis 2-player levels
*  Added the PSP levels
*  Added the Amiga 2-player levels from Orig and OhNo
*  Added "One Way to Freedom" from the Amiga demo to the "Other" rank

[[ CustLemmix ]]
*  Fixed a bug where CustLemmix would crash when trying to play a level if the
   DOS music pack wasn't being used
*  Now includes the Genesis versions of the Orig styles

[[ Flexi Lemmix ]]
*  Uses a seperate SYSTEM.DAT file instead of expecting it to be built into MAIN.DAT
*  Uses a new SYSTEM.DAT format (the same as used in NeoLemmix V1.25n)
*  Whether or not level dumping is permitted can now be set in the SYSTEM.DAT file,
   instead of automatically being disabled for Flexi players
*  Now supports up to 15 ranks
*  The non-toolkit Flexi player now includes the Genesis versions of the Orig styles,
   while the toolkit version contains a copy of them in the ZIP


Downloads can be found on either of these:
DropBox
NeoLemmix Website


(Note: There's still no "soft-oddtable" option when dumping level files, sorry. Because of the need to support two different methods of oddtabling, one of which gives no pointers as to the level rank/number of the target level, it's more complicated to do this in traditional than it is in NeoLemmix. That feature will come eventually, but it isn't here yet.)
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Offline Wafflem

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V24)
« Reply #77 on: November 07, 2014, 07:22:29 PM »
Thanks for the new level additions to the Extra Player.

There is a typo at the last level of every rank. If you press Esc and see the password for that level, it says "Your Access Code for Level 0".

After the eighth level of a difficulty rank in H94, Level 9 is actually the first level of the difficulty (e.g. Blitz 9 becomes Oogilemming, which is Blitz 1).


The Dropbox link also doesn't work; it gives me a 404.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V24)
« Reply #78 on: November 08, 2014, 01:08:01 AM »
DropBox URL: Fixed. It was just a typo in the BBCode in the message.
"Level 0" Access Code: Noted, I'll fix it in the next update (it's not an urgent problem).
H94 issue: I'll get onto that one right away and upload a fixed version.

EDIT: Fixed, and reuploaded to both links.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V25)
« Reply #79 on: November 09, 2014, 10:17:42 AM »
Alright, the update is here. :)

Lemmix V25
------------------
[[ Global changes ]]
*  More than one sound can now be played at a time. It's limited to 3 at a time if music is
   on, or 6 at a time if music is off, just like the official games. However, one difference
   from the official game is that the builder warning sound is neither included in, nor limited
   by, the 3/6-at-a-time sound effect limit; this is intentional.
*  Fixed the issue where on the final of a rank, the level code would be displayed on the fail
   screen as "Your code for Level 0"
*  Release rate can now instantly be set to 99 or the minimum by right-clicking the respective
   button on the skill panel


Downloads can be found on either of these:
DropBox
NeoLemmix Website


(To those wondering - yes, I absolutely do intend to apply the same sound change to NeoLemmix; though it goes without saying that the limit will be higher than 6 sounds. It'll be in either V1.25n-C or V1.26n; whichever the next version is. I'm not going to apply it midway through the V1.25n-B rollouts though.)
My Lemmings projects
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V25)
« Reply #80 on: November 10, 2014, 10:49:41 AM »
Just for reference, I want to wrap things up (like with NeoLemmix) so from this point forwards, any updates will only be to fix bugs or inconsistancies between Lemmix and DOS, apart from probably adding the in-game config menu at some point, and adding levels to Extra if any worth adding become available. I might also consider reasonable additions to Flexi.

Once it's finalised, I'll do another update for LPDOS (doesn't make sense having it on an old version), and maybe look at doing one for LPII / LPII Bonus as well, though no promises on the latter (but it would be nice to have it with music pack support and the new features). If I do do LPII / LPII Bonus, I'll probably use the remastered graphics too. Note that I don't intend to add gimmick / secret level support to traditional Cust / Flexi; if you want those newer features, use NeoLemmix.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V25)
« Reply #81 on: November 17, 2014, 10:21:23 PM »
Okay so, here's the future plans for traditional Lemmix. It's not much, but of course, there's nothing stopping someone else from taking it further once I'm done if they wish:

V26 (so far)
---
[[ Global changes ]]
*  Object X positions are now rounded down to the nearest multiple of 8 if nessecary.
*  Graphic sets with RGB-based images are now supported.
*  Graphic sets with up to 128 terrains and/or up to 32 objects are now supported.
*  Steel pieces have been added to the bubble set.


V27 (planned)
---
[[ Global changes ]]
*  Add the config menu similar to seen in the latest version of NeoLemmix.
* (Maybe) Volume control?


At any point as nessecary
--------------------------------
*   If suitable levels surface, add them to Extra
*   Fix any bugs (obviously excluding those intentionally replicated from DOS Lemmings) or inconsistencies between Lemmix and DOS behavior

All going well, V27 will most likely be the final update I make, except possibly to add further levels to Extra. If there's anything you think really needs to be implemented before then, let me know and I'll consider it.

I'm probably not going to try to remake any additional levels myself for Extra. However, if anyone wants to remake the Classic levels from L2, I'm happy to help on getting a suitable modified version of the Pillar graphic set.
My Lemmings projects
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V26)
« Reply #82 on: November 17, 2014, 11:37:42 PM »
Okay, here's V26.

Lemmix V26
------------------
[[ Global changes ]]
*  Object X positions are now rounded down to the nearest multiple of 8 if nessecary.
*  Graphic sets with RGB-based images are now supported.
*  Graphic sets with up to 128 terrains and/or up to 32 objects are now supported.
*  Steel pieces have been added to the bubble set.


Downloads:
DropBox: (link)
NeoLemmix Website: (link)

The rounding down of X coordinates is because this is how DOS Lemmings also behaves.
My Lemmings projects
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Offline Tsyu

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V26)
« Reply #83 on: November 18, 2014, 02:53:31 AM »
The original post of this thread is still linking to V20. Could you fix it so that it links to V26 (or maybe even the parent folder so you don't have to keep changing it)?

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V26)
« Reply #84 on: November 18, 2014, 02:56:55 AM »
I thought I had already done so. Thanks for letting me know. :)
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Offline Wafflem

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V26)
« Reply #85 on: November 20, 2014, 04:14:57 PM »
There's an Access violation in the Amiga 2P levels of the Extra player, which mikey found.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V26)
« Reply #86 on: November 21, 2014, 10:37:13 PM »
I'll look at that when I get a chance. :)
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PIGSgrame

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V26)
« Reply #87 on: November 22, 2014, 01:51:32 PM »
I also get an access violation in the Xmas 91/92 player (V26 non-Neo) when I start the first level. The Neo version works fine though.

Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V26)
« Reply #88 on: November 22, 2014, 10:14:24 PM »
Okay, I had a look at both of these players and it only occurs on a single level, not the whole ranks (eg: Xmas91 Lv2 works fine, Amiga2P Lv2-30 all work fine). Time to find out *why* this is happening.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V26)
« Reply #89 on: November 22, 2014, 10:35:40 PM »
I found the source of these. Specifically, it's to do with the implementation of >64 piece terrain sets; which also perfectly explains why it doesn't occur under NeoLemmix (due to the differences in how the file format implements these). Basically, it uses a bit that would otherwise be part of the X coordinate, but if set, would place the piece far outside the level's boundaries. I didn't expect any official levels would ever have it set for this reason, but it appears these two do; so I've set it to ignore pieces that don't exist in the graphic sets (which it probably should do anyway).

I've reuploaded fixed versions; same links and no new version number. It shouldn't matter for any players other than these two, but just in case, I applied the fix and reuploaded all of them. (I guess it could also come up on Cust/Flexi if you happen to be using either of those two levels.)
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V27)
« Reply #90 on: December 30, 2014, 12:50:08 AM »
Alright, V27 update is here. Unless bugfixes are needed, this is going to be the last update I make for the traditional Lemmix players.

I'll soon build an update of LPDOS using this finalised version, and then I might look at doing one for LPII as well. (I did actually at one point just consider making the NeoLemmix version of LPII the official one - since that was the original intention anyway - but decided against it; it's a traditional Lemmix pack and it's staying that way.)

Usual download links.

The only changes are support for adjustable-size VGASPECs (which will also be supported in the next NeoLemmix update) and that it now has a proper config screen. Press F4 on the menu screen for the config; as such, dump levels is now F5 and dump images is now F6.

EDIT: Known issue; there's no option on the Config screen to change the mechanics set in CustLemmix. Will upload a fixed version very soon.
EDIT: Done that, also uploaded a fixed version of Flexi that fixed an issue where the assign skill sound wouldn't play in packs with instant bombers.

If anyone else would like to make further modifications to Lemmix, you can get the latest version source code here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9mp7fnwe2jlsjfo/PlayerSource_V27.zip

From now on, my Lemmings-related work is focused solely on NeoLemmix.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 04:36:34 AM by namida »
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V28)
« Reply #91 on: January 18, 2015, 02:58:49 AM »
Okay, looks like I did update these one more time. The purpose was to store extra info in the replay files, to make it simpler to add challenge-related info to the Replay Database.

Download links remain the same.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V28)
« Reply #92 on: September 11, 2015, 12:46:21 PM »
Okay, looks like we're gonna need one more update here. Why? Well, a fairly significant physics discrepancy between DOS and Lemmix has been found; specifically, trap animations last one frame less in Lemmix (the first animation frame is skipped for some reason). This affects all versions of Lemmix, whether it's that newest V28, or all the way back to early alpha verisons of the Editor that had playtest built-in.

This also holds true for NeoLemmix, but in that case, with the big rewrite coming up anyway, I probably won't fix it until then - my reasoning being that after such a big rewrite it's probably best that levels are re-tested anyway, at which point such a change can be taken into account. No point doing something that could potentially have a significant effect on existing levels one version before such a rewrite. (It could also be argued that it doesn't matter so much in NeoLemmix, since it doesn't try to match DOS physics; but at any rate that's something that can be discussed in a NeoLemmix topic.)

I'll post again when I get around to doing said update.
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Offline namida

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V29)
« Reply #93 on: September 11, 2015, 01:53:51 PM »
Okay, said update is done.

Now - one thing I took into account is, given how long Lemmix has been around, there are going to be a lot of levels that have been designed tailored to this incorrect behaviour. As such, rather than outright fix the bug and leave these levels broken, I added an option in the Config screen (or in the INI file, if that's your preferred method of configuring it) to enable or disable this bug. By default, the bug is disabled for the official game players (since those levels obviously were not designed for such a bug), and enabled in Cust / Flexi (where most likely, the levels played will expect this bug to be part of the physics); but in either case it's configurable.

I didn't bother to make a creator-side option for Flexi for this. The reason being that basically, traditional Lemmix flexi isn't exactly very widely used - as far as I'm aware only a single pack has ever been made on it, and that pack hasn't been updated to newer versions anyway. Rather, most traditional Lemmix large packs have been made by simply using LookForLVLFiles together with an official game's player, or in rare cases, compiled from source code.

That aside, I also reverted V28's changes to the replay file, since the replay database never really took off and was eventually taken down. V29 can load replays from V28, but replays it saves will be compatible with all versions (at least where the absence / presence of the trap bug doesn't break them), rather than only self-compatible like V28's were.

Downloads at all the usual places - DropBox, or the NeoLemmix Website (check the Lemmix section on the left).



This shouldn't matter too much for the various challenge solutions, since fixing this bug makes the game more lenient, not less. However, I guess if there's situations where a crowd of lemmings walks past a trap, and a *specific* lemming needs to survive, it could matter... but such setups would need to be very, very specific, and I find it unlikely any have happened. So we can probably assume the challenge solutions are safe.

If anyone is using the source code for anything, the following are the relevant changes from previous code:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: September 11, 2015, 02:08:19 PM by namida »
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Offline The Mole UK

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (Current: V29)
« Reply #94 on: April 24, 2023, 12:11:04 PM »
Does Lemmix v29 use a switch in the ini file to load a different set of levels?   I'd like a version of Holiday Lemmings that can use my own LEVEL000.DAT (from DOS).  Or is there a way to convert a .DAT file etc, etc...  It would be nice if the community could make a Holiday Lemmings 2023 and then 2024...

Offline The Mole UK

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Re: Lemmix Player Collection (including H94, Covox, Prima and "Extra")
« Reply #95 on: April 24, 2023, 09:02:36 PM »
Added an "Extra" player, which contains a lot of the levels that weren't in the DOS version. Most but not all are from the Genesis version. It contains a total of 126 levels, see first post for detailed info. In short, the sources are (all are from versions of Orig, except for one Amiga level that comes from H93/H94):

Genesis version: 105 levels
Master System version: 12 levels
Amiga version: 1 level (H93/H94, not orig)
Amiga special editions: 6 levels
Mac version: 2 levels (1 from the demo, 1 from the normal game)

I added it to the bundle download, but since a lot of you probably already have all the other players that are in it, here's a link for this one by itself:
<a href="http://www.mediafire.com/download/c7iqctlk3qhqc27/LemmixPlayerExtra.zip" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://www.mediafire.com/download/c7iqctlk3qhqc27/LemmixPlayerExtra.zip</a>

There's no NeoLemmix version of it yet; there will be with the V1.09n release. Since from V1.09n NeoLemmix is switching to use the (standard) Amiga versions as the level source rather than the DOS versions where applicable, the H93/H94 level in here from Amiga will obviously be replaced with the equivalent from DOS.

NOTE: Although it works, using LookForLVLFiles with this player is probably not the easiest thing to do. The Genesis levels have a hardcoded switch to change their graphic set number (so they use the Genesis ones rather than the DOS ones), not all styles are present (only the ones that are needed for included levels), and there's also one other level that has something hardcoded. I won't say what exactly, but I'm sure it'll be an appreciated detail by those who've played the level in question in its original form. I'd reccomend just use one of the other players for that; up to you though. <img src="http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />


EDIT: If you're getting crashes saying "cannot find vgaspec511.dat" on the 6th and 12th levels in the Sega Master System levels, redownload it, I fixed it. <img src="http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" /> I just forgot to turn off a NeoLemmix flag that NeoLemEdit enables by default - this is exactly the thing that the latest CustLemmix update protects against crashes from. xD

Is this a version that is lower than V29? - CRC32: B8470CED
Thanks...
« Last Edit: April 24, 2023, 09:08:28 PM by mole973102 »