Lemmings Plus II

[Akseli]

My V4 solutions.

I watched the official solutions for Sneaky 18: "A Two-Pronged Approach" and Cunning 10: "Shotgun Run", both were really clever ones, it's a bit pity that these levels have backroutes that are imo a lot easier to find than those neat intended solutions. :\ Also my solution for Genius 21 feels too trivial still, I just switched the places of the miner and the blocker compared to my initial solution.

Lol at Cunning 20, why didn't I realize that earlier...!

I might list my favourite levels of this level set soon. : )

[namida]

Didn't watch your new solutions yet, but yeah, I can tell you that'll be a backroute for Genius 21. Oh well, can't do anything now. Did you look at the intended solution? (Anyway, your initial solution DOES have the blockers in the right place, so that's a guideline you can use.)

I'd be interested to hear your comments and favorite (and least favorite! that's important too!) levels. Vote for your favs in the poll in this topic, too - I'm gonna run through each rank (1-10, then 11-21). After that, I'll probably take the top two from 1-10 and top two from 11-21 (maybe more than two if there's ties) for each rank, and finally, the top two from each rank for the ultimate winner. I'm allowing two votes per user per round in the 1-10s and 11-21s, not sure what I'll do for the later rounds.

My prediction for which one would win (although not the one I'd vote for in the final round - I very likely would put votes in the earlier rounds towards it) is...

Genius 8 - "Panic Attack"

[Proxima]

I'd put money on Nice 9 to win (the 1-10 round, not the whole contest) because it has a cute gimmick, which makes it stand out from the other levels. They are indeed nice -- the usual mundane send-one-ahead levels we're used to seeing at the start of a pack. This is not at all a complaint -- it's comforting to start on familiar territory.

My vote, however, goes to Nice 4, an excellent and visually pleasing level of this type, with a choice of routes to the exit, some thinking required in how to get there efficiently, and a bit of extra work needed if you want to save 100%. Pity it uses the least good ONML music; and if the DOS version followed the music order of the Mac version, it would use the best 

[namida]

Looks like Nice 7 is winning at the moment. =P I also would've expected Nice 9 to win this round, though at any rate my votes were for Nice 7 and Nice 9 so either way is good for me.

Akseli, I watched your replays. Can't really say much about Cunning 21 (due to the type of level it is =P - congrats on finding it though), and Genius 21 I already was able to say enough from just your description. Cheeky 18, it seems you still avoided using the right entrance (my solution was to build from both sides, so the fall isn't too high), but not too worried - this was more "the level is too easy in general" than trying to enforce any specific solution, just like was the case with Nice 17 (though in the case of Nice 17, I think I might've made it *too* hard, whereas this one is more or less just right!).

[Minim]

One question (Which I probably should've asked about in the original LP): Is there a way to get round selecting the UseFadeOut and CheatCodesEnabled setting? I tried setting it to 0 and 1 respectively, but they don't work. I just don't seem to have the patience to watch the screen fade before playing these levels.

As for the votes, I just voted for Levels 4 and 6. Nice 6 is very unique as it shows us the one-way walkers, never seen before; albeit quite short and basic. Nice 4 is fairly tricky for it's position, since it involves all the skills, but it's a good old "Hero" level.

[namida]

I haven't done anything to UseFadeout. As for cheat codes, update to the latest player and it'll work properly.

[namida]

Alongside my upgraded Lemmix project, I'm also working on a small "Lemmings Plus II Bonus Pack". =D
This will feature 30 levels across 5 ranks, 6 levels per rank. Plus maybe one or two secret levels (probably not one per rank this time, just one or two altogether) - haven't decided yet.
These levels will be 18 original levels, and 12 repeat versions of levels from Nice and Cheeky (6 each). All of the 18 original levels will be gimmick levels (only using existing gimmicks, no new ones).

Just so you know, this isn't based off the upgraded player I'm working on. The player is more or less identical to the LPII one except with less levels. The only other change is that it automatically detects gimmick levels and plays the appropriate music rather than requiring them to be hardcoded. Mechanics-wise, it is identical to LPII.

I won't be focusing on all 5 gimmicks (for example - I don't think much more can be done with Sneaky 4's gimmick, it's really one of those ones that only works once), but rather the focus will be on three types of levels:
- Karoshi levels
- No-gravity levels
- Floater Frenzy levels

For the last one, I plan to base the levels off the basic Floater Frenzy concept (not just re-use the "no pausing", but actually keep the core idea of dishing out floaters) but add in some other elements to them as well - essentially, "advanced" Floater Frenzies.

There's no overall difficulty curve between ranks (I haven't yet decided whether I will attempt to create one within each rank), each rank is independant and focuses on a specific type of level:
Trial - Repeats from Nice
Challenge - Repeats from Cheeky
Reverse - Karoshi levels
Flight - No-gravity levels
Rush - Frenzy levels

So far, I've made five of the six Nice repeats (I have basic outlines for two more and I'm deciding which one of those two I'd rather use - one of them I really like but I know it's just begging to be backrouted) as well as one Karoshi level. It's actually quite interesting trying to design repeats when I have an absolutely fixed layout to work with.

My main reason for this is that I feel that a lot more can be done with those three gimmick level types especially. If I come up with some good ideas, I might include a Cheeky 8 and/or Genius 16 type level as a secret level, but I don't see as much potential in those two so I'm not dedicating a full rank to them.

All levels will use the LPII styles. However, I plan to also include the official styles in the player, in case people want to try making gimmick levels in them.

If I really get stuck for no-gravity level ideas, I might make the 4th rank a combination of no-gravity, no-destruction and Genius 16 gimmick levels.


Random revelation: One of the nice repeats is of Nice 9. The repeat does *not* have the Karoshi gimmick, so you finally get to actually rescue the lemmings in this level. =D

Here's a preview shot from one of the Karoshi levels. It has 50 lemmings and requires 100% (100% killed that is, of course). Remember, falling out of the bottom of the level does *not* count as killed for the Karoshi gimmick (obviously, if there's water there and they drown, then it does count). Time running out quite obviously doesn't count either. =P Making a lemming into a bomber DOES count, but I'm sure you're already well aware of that.

[Nepster]

I finished yesterday the last of your great levels. Many thanks for these hours of fun!

Nevertheless some remarks:
- favorite levels: Treetop Trial, Panic Attack and Only one Lemming away 
- least favorite ones: all Floater Frenzies (sorry, but I don't see the point of these levels) and Overflow zone (I usually hit F11 right at the start and then stare at the screen until I have a solution - but that's probably the worst approach to this level)
- I really liked the idea of one-way areas, but quite often they had the flavor of backroute-fixes instead of being a genuine part of the puzzle.
- I like the look of the Psychodelic, Sand and Metal style; the Tree style could use some more texture in the leaves but is nice otherwise; and I better say nothing about the Purple style...
- There are serious backroutes for Jailbreak (Cunning 12, glitchy), If you're lemmy and you know it (Genius 3, non-glitchy) and Wrong way, Mister Lemming (Genius 19, glitchy). See the replays attached.
- Treetop Trial can be solved (even non-glitchy) using only 2 builders (instead of 3). If you don't know such a solution already, consider this a challenge.

EDIT: Thanks for the remark about LPDOS, but I already played these levels some time ago. If I find the time to look at them again, I might even participate at the voting for the best level (but don't wait for me).
About being new here: That's only partially true. Although I registered recently, I follow this forum for quite some time now.

[namida]

Thanks for the feedback!

Cunning 5: I quite like your solution! =D
Cunning 12: I'm not worried about glitch routes as far as backroutes are concerned (however, they're more than valid for maximum percent).
Genius 2: Nicely done. =D
Genius 3: I hadn't thought of that solution. It reminds me of PSYCHO 4 from LPDOS. xD Improved the saved lemmings record too!
Genius 4: Wow, good spotting! And nice on the 67%!
Genius 19: Again, not worried about glitch solutions for backroutes, but nice on the percentage. I had wondered if something like that may be possible.
Genius 20: Nicely done. There's turning out to be quite a few solutions to this level, but most of them are fairly challenging - and more importantly, quite fun. That's why I think it was the perfect choice for the final level. (By the way, I don't consider this to be a glitch solution - I have never considered direct drop to be a glitch. In fact, my intended solution to this level also uses a direct drop, and until recently I didn't know PSYCHO 6 of LPDOS was possible without one.)

Just wondering, did you also play LPDOS at any point (simply asking because you're new to the forums)? It's another pack I made (about 4 years before LPII), it has 150 levels although like the original game, some of them are repeats. It also doesn't use custom graphic sets. There's still some very nice levels in there, though. I have a few older packs too, but they're not so great, to be honest the majority of the levels are borderline embarassing (and a lot of the good ones were included in LPDOS too anyway).

[namida]

I've been somewhat busy lately so haven't been able to put too much time into the bonus pack, but I've made the final level of Trial, and one level each for Flight and Rush. (EDIT: Make that two for Rush.) This is in addition to the other 5 levels of Trial and the one level of Reverse I mentioned earlier.

Repeated Nice levels:
Nice 5 - "Get Your Lemmings' Worth"
Nice 7 - "Together We Sand"
Nice 9 - "Something's Not Right Here..."
Nice 11 - "Fun With Lasers"
Nice 13 - "Watch Your Lemmings..."
Nice 21 - "To Lem, Or Not To Lem"

One of the Rush levels so far is a more or less logical extension of Floater Frenzy. The other one actually goes away from floaters, and uses a concept previously seen in LPDOS that works very well for a frenzy level (I won't say exactly which level, but it's something in Danger). I'm also considering possibly doing one level for Rush that drops the frenzy concept entirely, and instead applies the no pause (possibly combined with Superlemming) to a Mayhem 28 / Wicked 2 type level - obviously, the level would be designed with the lack of pause (and possibly high speed) in mind, and not require overly precise moves.

EDIT: Designed such a level. Just need to fix backroutes and slightly reduce the precision needed.
EDIT: Alright, I quite like the result. It does need fairly accurate moves, but nothing pixel-precise. Quite a nice solution too, but stamping out backroutes was a total f***ing pain in the ass (and I wouldn't be surprised if some slipped through the cracks).

Here's an image of the level. One lemming, (obviously) requires 100%, RR 50, 6 minutes. Skillset is 1 climber, 6 builders, 2 bashers, 1 miner and 2 diggers.

[namida]

Half way done, including all but one of the repeat levels. I have to find another level from the second half of Cheeky that I think would work well for it.

Repeats for Cheeky:
Cheeky 5 - "A Violation Of Lemming Rights"
Cheeky 7 - "Yours Treely"
Cheeky 10 - "Floater Frenzy" (the repeat is *not* a Frenzy or gimmick level of any kind)
Cheeky 11 - "One-Lem Wonder"
Cheeky 14 - "Land of the Lost"
Sneaky 4 - "Overflow Zone" (again, the repeat is just a normal level)

Unfortunately none of the remaining ones seem to be very well suited to it. I might possibly look at some of the Sneaky levels for Challenge 6. (EDIT: Used a Sneaky level.)

As a random fact, only one level in all of Trial and Challenge combined has a time limit of more than 3 minutes - and it's NOT the repeat of Nice 21. (The majority of them are 2 minutes, although a few are 1 or 3.) In general, I tried to avoid overly tight time limits for LPII unless it was specifically part of the challenge, but that does NOT hold true for the bonus pack's repeat levels, most of them are very tight for time. (The new levels, on the other hand, are more following LPII's time limit rule.)

[mobius]

here's a replay for 'Oh snap' in case it's a back route, (saved 1 builder). But considering this is Cheeky maybe you intended these to have multiple solutions.

Floater frenzy is a fun level. I read about it but don't see or know where that thread is exactly...

I'm a little excited to play these 'Karoshi levels' and 'No-gravity levels' 

[namida]

I didn't watch your replay yet, but from the screenshot and remaining skills it looks like you solved it exactly the same way I did. At any rate, I've pretty much said *any* solution is a valid solution for Nice and Cheeky, as far as LPII goes the concept of a "backroute" only exists from Sneaky onwards.

When you say you read about it but don't know where the thread is, what are you talking about?

[mobius]

Akseli commented on Floater frenzy and said how the concept was like a level from Lemmings Revolution called LEMTRIS, I thought that was in this topic but I don't see it...

[namida]

It was most likely in the LPII development topic.