Author Topic: The Apple Computer Level  (Read 5456 times)

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Offline ccexplore

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Re: The Apple Computer Level
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2013, 08:42:14 pm »
It's been a long while since I've run WinLemm so I don't really remember anything about it.  I believe they already took out the special graphics levels (eg. A Beast of a Level) in that port, but it would be interesting if they really did take out Tricky 21 as well, as it would seem to mean that the Tricky rating would have one less level than the other 3 ratings.  Unless they took out other levels from the other ratings too to balance? ???

Offline Mikex62

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Re: The Apple Computer Level
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2013, 09:54:47 pm »
Nope, its still there.  :thumbsup:

Offline Leo

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Re: The Apple Computer Level
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2013, 12:02:50 am »
They didn't care about any balance. Number of levels are as follows:

Fun 28
Tricky 28
Taxing 29
Mayhem 29

Tame 16
Crazy 20
Wild 20
Wicked 19
Havoc 20

Here is the complete list (in the version I have):


Offline ccexplore

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Re: The Apple Computer Level
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2013, 01:03:16 am »
Interesting.  So they took out Fun version of "We All Fall Down" as well resulting in 28 levels for Fun.

The removal of "Inroducing SuperLemming" (Wicked 2 in DOS version) is also well-known, basically because WinLemm doesn't support the double-speed used for that one level.  Interesting that they removed a bunch of Tame levels as well, I guess it's not just us who are complaining about how lame that rating is. ;P

It's possible that there are more than one version of WinLemm released that had slightly different sets of levels removed.  I can imagine for example that in an earlier release "All the 6s" are there, and then in a later release it was removed like in your copy, probably due to feedback from players (or more likely, their religiously conservative parents ;P).

Offline Leo

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Re: The Apple Computer Level
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2013, 01:35:44 am »
Version is 0.9.0.4
I don't know is there any other. Today I checked CD-ROM image of "Lemmings paintball" with "Win Lemmings" included, and it's the same version. As I said, there is "All the 6's" LVL file in the Level folder. If I change a name of the file (replace some other file) I can play that one also, but I can't find a proper way to play that level.

Offline Mikex62

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Re: The Apple Computer Level
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2013, 12:31:50 am »
I found something SHOCKING!  :o

I found these in the LEVEL folder, it's blank levels, just hatchs and exits. I have theorized that those were the special levels. Maybe if i hack the game, I can make these levels playable. But this is just a theory.

EDIT: The "All the 6's" level STILL WORKS! I can't believe it!  :thumbsup:

Offline ccexplore

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Re: The Apple Computer Level
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2013, 01:30:44 am »
Yeah, the special graphics levels' level data are exactly like that also in the original games (DOS, Amiga, etc.)  They contain no terrain because the terrain comes from a separate file that is basically a direct bitmap image of the terrain graphics, rather than building it from terrain pieces like regular levels.  However, I don't know if these separate graphics files, or the associated programming code to use them, are also ported to WinLemm or not.  I would say it's less likely.

The fact that the level files are all included is simply because they can be easily reused from port to port with no modifications.  The level files basically just specify the positions of the terrain pieces and objects in the level (and things like which graphics set to use), and otherwise contain nothing like actual graphics that would need to be handled differently from port to port.  So most likely they just mass-include the entire set of level files from the original game, and then because they are so small, there's no need to try to keep the level files in sync with which levels are actually exposed normally to the user in WinLemm.

One quick test you can try is to simply replace one of the levels exposed in the game with those files (just like you did with "All the 6s"), and see what you get trying to play it in WinLemm.  Most likely you'll just get the entrance and exit without the special graphics terrain, which would indicate that the support for special graphics is simply not included in WinLemm.  (Granted, it could also be included but disabled in the programming, unlikely as it may be.)

Offline Leo

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Re: The Apple Computer Level
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2013, 01:48:53 am »
Yes, they are special levels. LVL files (of the same number) in the same folder "say" these suppose to be:

01 = "What an AWESOME level"
02 = "MENACING !!"
04 = "A BeastII of a level"
13 = "A Beast of a level"

LVL files can be used as replace for some 'normal' LVL file, but there is nothing to play. Level is empty, the same like thumbnail map. As I can see 'special levels' pictures are not included.

Offline Mikex62

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Re: The Apple Computer Level
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2013, 10:23:07 pm »
Here's a video I recorded for the All the 6's level in action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQcfKA-AAn4

Offline mobius

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Re: The Apple Computer Level
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2013, 02:59:31 am »
interesting find  :thumbsup:

---
something I just realized about Lemmini; they got the buttons for the skill pallet from the WinLem's-made pictures seen in the level preview window.
"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakwin Rinzai

"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man"
-the Dude


Offline Mikex62

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Re: The Apple Computer Level
« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2013, 01:37:02 pm »
Those are actually from Lemmings 2: The Tribes.

Offline Mikex62

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Re: The Apple Computer Level
« Reply #26 on: March 09, 2013, 01:39:12 pm »
I believe they already took out the special graphics levels (eg. A Beast of a Level) in that port, but it would be interesting if they really did take out Tricky 21 as well.
Believe it or not. You CANNOT access the blank levels! I tried, led me to "This should be a doodle!"

Offline DoubleU

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Re: The Apple Computer Level
« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2017, 03:36:38 pm »
The removal of "Inroducing SuperLemming" (Wicked 2 in DOS version) is also well-known, basically because WinLemm doesn't support the double-speed used for that one level.  Interesting that they removed a bunch of Tame levels as well, I guess it's not just us who are complaining about how lame that rating is. ;P

It's possible that there are more than one version of WinLemm released that had slightly different sets of levels removed.  I can imagine for example that in an earlier release "All the 6s" are there, and then in a later release it was removed like in your copy, probably due to feedback from players (or more likely, their religiously conservative parents ;P).
I don't know about "religiously conservative". I thought it was the liberals who got bent out of shape over everything? And toppled statues to erase history. It's not like they put swastikas in the level or anything, I think.

Another reason I can think of (maybe) for getting rid of the last four Tames might be they were alone in their level pack in the DOS version, if that makes sense.