What is the minimum number of skills needed to beat each level?

[ccexplore]

I thought that hanging icicle got in the way wherever you started from, but apparently not.

I haven't looked at that level in detail and don't know which icicle you're referring to or where the builder in question is located, but I see that many of the icicles' tips are only 1 pixel in width, and as you might know, when checking for ceiling for builders, the game actually only checks a single pixel each time, and the builder advances horizontally by 2 pixels each time.  So by merely shifting where you start building by one pixel, it's quite possible for the builder's ceiling-detection to "skip over" an icicle.

[namida]

Mayhem 18: Got it down to 16 skills. Someone with better knowledge of the exact mechanics could probably reduce it to 15, but I had to use one extra builder to allow one extra lemming to survive, otherwise I could only acheive 88%. (The solution would work as-is, with 15 skills, on versions such as Amiga that give you 100 Lemmings instead of 80).

[Clam]

Yes, there's a way around this. Now down to 15 skills in DOS.


To round off the rest of Mayhem:

26: 12
28: 8
29: 19
30: 28

Replays for 18, 26 and 29 attached.

Now that we've got a score for all the original levels, I've added the total to the first post, beneath the table.

[ccexplore]

Wild 19 is giving me fits right now.  I'm having problems with an obnoxious glitch that is preventing me from taking the "ceiling route."  I can start bashing through the top of the steel just fine, but about halfway through the lemming simply stops and turns around for no apparent reason. 

If you can get DOSBox v0.73 working on your machine, I suggest using DOSBox for those levels where you run into the problem.

Unfortunately DOSBox turns out to be no guarantee that it'll eliminate the problem.  I just ran into the problem on Mayhem 28, even though I'm playing the game in DOSBox.  I wonder now if the reason I didn't run into the problem on ONML is maybe my copy of the ONML is different from LemSteven's?

I did discover that if I play the game in CGA or Tandy mode, I was able to make the problem go away at least for Mayhem 28.  So that's something you could give a try, to play the level in CGA or Tandy mode and see if you can bash successfully.

I would argue that the behavior in Lemmix is actually the more "correct" behavior, although it is a little unnerving to think that the desired solution might actually not be executable in the actual game.

[ccexplore]

Building at the correct place, I could do Mayhem 28 with 7 skills on Lemmix.  Solution attached.

But sadly I have not been able to make it work on DOS Lemmings so far.  In VGA mode, I'm running into the same problem LemSteven's encountering on Wild 19, causing the bashing to stop midway.  If instead I play in CGA or Tandy mode, the bashing will go all the way, but the builder stops one brick short at the top (unlike in VGA mode), requiring an extra builder as a result.

[edit:  I was finally able to make the solution work in DOS Lemmings if I use the program mentioned in the post below to get rid of the "LemSteven ceiling basher syndrome".  I could produce a DOSBox video if someone wants proof.]

I would think that you can get away without the 2nd basher in Mayhem 29.  I'll try it later if you don't get to it.

[ccexplore]

Ok, I find a way to make the ceiling-bashing problem go away, at least in DOSBox.

Attached is a tiny program that changes DOS's memory allocation strategy.  In DOSBox, if you run this program first, and then run Lemmings, I find that the ceiling bashing problem will go away in for example, Mayhem 28.

It might feel a little wrong to some of you.  However, this program does not touch the game's program and data at all; in fact it finishes doing its work before you even run the game.  It is conceivable that there might be real DOS application programs out there that if run, may produce the same effect.

The program should work fine in actual DOS as well.  The only thing I haven't taken care of is to actually ensure that the memory being accessed by the game during the problem are actually all 0s.  The change in DOS's memory allocation strategy means the game is now truly accessing memory not owned by the game or any other programs, so it's still possible that a previously run program could've used the same memory addresses and left over some byte values there, although it should be unlikely if you haven't run any other programs (besides lastfit.com) before running Lemmings.  If I have time I could write a longer program to try to zero out the memory as well.

[Proxima]

This is getting too surreal for words.

[namida]

I did discover that if I play the game in CGA or Tandy mode, I was able to make the problem go away at least for Mayhem 28.  So that's something you could give a try, to play the level in CGA or Tandy mode and see if you can bash successfully.

I would argue that the behavior in Lemmix is actually the more "correct" behavior, although it is a little unnerving to think that the desired solution might actually not be executable in the actual game.

I would think that if the extra time given by High Performance mode is considered acceptable, then so is any advantage given by CGA/Tandy mode... thus making the solution valid.

[Clam]

Wow, Lemmings is affected by something outside of Lemmings. That's kinda spooky...

Building at the correct place, I could do Mayhem 28 with 7 skills on Lemmix.  Solution attached.

More counterintuitive builder placement. 

I would think that you can get away without the 2nd basher in Mayhem 29.  I'll try it later if you don't get to it.

Or you could do it with no bashers at all (but using an extra builder). I've got it to work with 18 now - just.

[LemSteven]

Here's a couple more Wild scores:

Wild 15:  6
Wild 20:  4

[Clam]

Starting off the Xmas levels with a bang...

Blitz 1: 20. This includes only 1 climber.
EDIT: Make that 18. I've cut out the last climber, as well as the floater.


Wild 20 can be done with 3:

Yet more counterintuitive builder placement.

[ccexplore]

Blitz 1: 20. This includes only 1 climber.
EDIT: Make that 18. I've cut out the last climber, as well as the floater.

Try 15 skills instead.  I've added back the climber and floater.

[edit: now down to 13 skills.  And no, I didn't have any clever way of deriving the "crowd recompression"; it was just trial and error.]

Frost 13 can be done with 1 skill (not 0 though) courtesy of the nuke glitch.

[Clam]

Well, I thought a "no climbers" solution on a level where you'd normally make everyone climb was a good effort...


Here's the rest of Wild.

14: 6
17: 6
18: 8

[ccexplore]

Well, I thought a "no climbers" solution on a level where you'd normally make everyone climb was a good effort...

I'm sure it's a very good effort.   Just a bit inefficient, that's all.  Attached is a 13-skill solution to Blitz 1 that does not use any climbers or floaters.  It's also possible to get 100% with just 14-skills, no climbers nor floaters.

[Fleech]

I wish I had something useful to contribute to this thread, and indeed all the challenge threads.

Great work though, and thanks for posting the replays. They're a lot of fun to watch.