• I was under the impression that I had a really good reason for keeping Attractor, but I can't remember what it was. However, don't assume that Walker will be available in every level.
  
• I found Archer pretty easy to work with. Plus, it's a mouse-control skill, so I'd like to keep it.
  
• Magno Boots too quirky? They have specific, practical uses. It's not like dropping some seeds for a small platform to appear for no apparent reason. As for all the question marks, what qualifies as too quirky?
  
• Sliders let you change direction and they won't save you if you fall too far. I consider them distinctly different from Floater.
  
• Exploder's in the list, and I haven't decided what would make the best Bomber. If it blows up immediately, it's like an Exploder that doesn't kill the Lemming. If you leave it laying around for a few seconds, it's only safe for The Hero.
  
• Paintballer, in addition to being a mouse-control skill, can be granted in limited quantities. 5 Paintballers in a level means you can't just wail away at the other guy the whole time.

Just jotting down some notes, here. This is effectively every Lemmings skill and whether or not I'd like to include it in this project.

Legend:
+ = Considering inclusion
- = Considering omission
? = Not sure either way
Green = Was present in Lemmings
Blue = Only available in Lemmings 3
Orange = New skill idea

+ Archer
+ Attractor
- Ballooner - Requires use of Fan
+ Basher - Can be combined with Digger and Miner
+ Bazooka - Can be combined with Mortar
+ Blocker
+ Bomber
+ Builder - Can be combined with Platformer and Stacker
+ Climber
- Club Basher - Too similar to Basher
+ Digger - Can be combined with Basher and Miner
- Diver - Excessively situational
+ Exploder
- Fencer - Too similar to Basher
+ Filler
- Flame Thrower - Anecdotal
+ Floater
- Glue Pourer - Too quirky
+ Grenadier - Fun for multiplay
- Hadouken - Copyright infringement
- Hang Glider - Requires use of Fan
+ Helmet - Protects a Lemming from one trap and incorporates an Adventures of Lomax element
- Hopper - Quirky
- Icarus Wings - Requires use of Fan
- Jet Pack - Requires use of Fan
+ Jumper
- Kayaker - Too similar to Swimmer
? Laser Blaster - Good tool, but is it too quirky?
- Magic Carpet - Anecdotal + Fan
+ Magno Booter
+ Miner - Can be combined with Basher and Digger
+ Mortar - Can be combined with Bazooka
+ Paintballer - Replaces Hadouken for multiplay and incorporates a Lemmings Paintball element
- Parachuter - Too similar to Floater + Fan
- Planter - Quirky
+ Platformer - Can be combined with Builder and Platformer
- Pole Vaulter - Quirky
- Rock Climber - Too similar to climber
- Roller - Too similar to Runner
+ Roper
+ Runner
- Sand Pourer - Anecdotal
- Scooper - Too similar to Miner
+ Shimmer
? Skater - Is ice a good idea?
- Skier - Highly situational
+ Slider
- Spearer - Quirky
+ Stacker - Can be combined with Builder and Platformer
- Stomper - Too similar to Digger
? Superlem - Fun to use, but is it a good idea?
- Surfer - Too similar to Swimmer + Fan
+ Swimmer
- Thrower - Anecdotal
- Twister - Requires use of Fan
+ Walker - Stops a Lemming from doing stuff and can turn them around

Quote from: Clam Spammer- I hear Revolution had a different method of unlocking levels, rather than the standard "linear" way. Maybe you could have a few levels to choose from (per difficulty level) at one time.

The stage select screen is a big triangle starting with a column of 3 on the left, then 4, then 5, etc. all the way up to 14 on the right. Completing a stage unlocks the adjacent two stages in the next column over. So stage 1 in the first column unlocks stages 1 and 2 in the second column, stage 2 in the first column unlocks stages 2 and 3 in the second column and so-forth. It's easier to show with a picture.


(Click for full version)

Easier stages are on the left, and harder stages are to the right. I really like this particular setup, even if it does clutter the screen, because it gives you more options to keep playing in the event you get stumped on one level and want to move onto something else for a while.

Quote from: Clam Spammer- Steel needs to be totally bulletproof, like in L2. The indestructable nature of it should be inherent in the steel terrain, not something that is added over the top (like in L1/ONML), for consistency. There are surprisingly many ways to get through steel in the original game

I honestly can't fathom how someone can design indestructible terrain that can be nonetheless destroyed. It doesn't make any sense. Either someone was really lazy or there's a major bug in the system. It won't be a problem. In the setup I have in mind, terrain deformation will ignore indestructible terrain, so it won't even be possible to bypass it.

Quote from: Clam Spammer- I liked how in L3 you could use the building and digging skills in multiple directions, but as I said before I thought the ability to change direction at will was a little over the top. The L3 system of using bricks/spades as you go encourages this somewhat, but using one skill point for each order (the original way) would not. So what about having builders and diggers go in 8 or 16 directions (minus a couple - down for builders, up for diggers), or even a free choice where you point to the destination and click to make the lemming go there.

In Kirby's Adventure, you had Fire (flamethrower breath) and Fireball (self projectile), but in Kirby Super Star, you had a generic "Fire" ability that could do a number of different fire-based attacks (including the two from Adventure) depending on how it was used. It's the same idea here: should a Lemming have a single ability that can take on the functions of Builder, Platformer and Stacker depending on how it's used? I've definitely considered it, but I'll have to run it through some more scrutiny before I decide one way or the other.

Quote from: Clam SpammerMaybe even remove the 12 brick limit for builders. This idea comes from the roper in Lemmings 2 - the freedom of choice made this one of the greatest skills ever.

Even the Roper had a maximum distance. I think the building tools should stay at 12 blocks. However, the idea has occurred to me that a Lemming can be assigned as a "designated Builder" and will automatically grant itself another Builder skill from your inventory every time it runs out of blocks... so long as you still have Builders left and it doesn't hit anything.

Quote from: Clam SpammerAnother thought I had, which would probably be better for a small modification of the original game rather than a full remake, is a sort of "power mode", where a lemming using a skill gains additional powers.

You've lost me on this one. Could you explain in greater detail?

Quote from: SimonIn my opinion, a good game is always a good tool as well. Providing savestates would increase the user efficiency of trying new ideas in a level. I'd opt for anything that helps! (in singleplayer at least, heh. :-D)

I reeeeeally don't know if that'd be a wise implementation. I imagine all my projects being released in the mainstream, so I like to have my products maintain a level of professionalism that I'd expect to see in a retail game. Save states encourages haphazarded experimentation more than planning out a course from the start, which removes a big part of what Lemmings is all about in my opinion.

Quote from: SimonExploder with knockback - This is the main way to dislodge enemy blockers, at the expense of an own lemming. One can even use it to punish players who hoard all their lemmings directly under the entrance hatch, which could be very boring. Sneak a few lemmings in, BOOM, everyone's flying all over the place. :-D

You are mean for making me drool. This would also be a good place to implement the Grenadier from Lemmings 3. It's like the Thrower, but the projectile bounces around and explodes. (-:

Quote from: SimonWalker skill - This works exactly as in L3: It reverts workers back to walkers, including blockers, or turns walkers around. This is the more direct lemming control mentioned above. It's pretty important if you need fast and accurate control of a few certain lemmings, which is common in multiplayer.

This was my auxiliary idea for making Blockers stop blocking. It definitely makes a lot more sense than having a Miner start building a bridge when he's down far enough. I'll toss this into my bin of "things to strongly consider."

Quote from: SimonI don't know how to implement [continuous edges] the best way. I myself just scroll freely over the edges and let the stuff from the other side scroll into view, so that one can't notice any seam. Of course, this feels odd at first if the level size is one screen, but you can scroll freely in all four directions. :-D

Copernicus-style scrolling can definitely be disorienting, so I think I'd rather omit the feature altogether. As with mutli-function abilities, I'll have to consider it further at a later time.

-----

I've considered competitive multiplayer as well as cooperative. Co-op stages where each player has a different starting location and a different selection of abilities can really make for some interesting puzzle situations. After all, you can't control the other person's Lemmings, nor can you use skills from their inventory.

Would it be a bad idea to allow more than two teams? Forget about colors for a minute. Would three or four groups of Lemmings get too crowded?

Quote from: Clam SpammerHey GP, welcome to the forums!

Thanks! It was the least-dead Lemmings forum community I could find. (-:

Quote from: Clam SpammerMore skills - Personally I didn't like this as it took away some of the great simplicity of the original game. The original eight skills are easy to use, even for first-timers. IMHO, any additional skills should be similarly easy to get to grips with (eg. jumper, runner, swimmer, filler), whereas some of the other skills in L2 are certainly not. Also, skills that are essentialy the same as existing ones (like the stomper) are unnecessary.

Agreed on all points with the exception that I like not having the same 8 skills every single level. The really quirky skills (Thrower, Pegasus Wings, Planter) can be omitted, and the ones that are only moderately different from existing skills (Stomper, Club Basher, Rock Climber) can bear to go as well. Some of the permanent powers are nice to keep, though, such as Runner, Swimmer and the like.

Quote from: Clam SpammerSaving lemmings for future levels - I'd leave this idea and go back to the original way.

I agree, for reasons in addition to what you provided, that this is probably the best idea. For each level, if you get X Lemmings and have to save Y, it's a lot less emphasis on collecting 'em all rather than solving the puzzle with the available tools.

Quote from: Clam SpammerConnecting edges - I haven't played Revo so I don't know.

The game took place on the surface of a cylinder, which means the left and right edges were continuous not unlike Pac-Man. However, unlike Pac-Man, since the camera could pan around the level, you didn't get the impression that Lemmings were warping from one side to the other. Many levels consisted of solutions that involved working Lemmings completely around the cylinder multiple times, which isn't easy to represent in a 2D graphics environment.

Quote from: Clam SpammerAnd what do you mean by "five pointing devices" and "The One"?

Five pointing devices will allow you to give instructions to five different Lemmings simultaneously, is all. Just an exaggeration. The One is the aformentioned hero Lemming.

Quote from: Clam SpammerMusic - I'd go with about a dozen tracks (classical and/or traditional music seems appropriate for Lemmings). The 17 tracks of the original game is probably too many, but the 6 in ONML are too few IMO (both DOS version, I don't know if the others had more or less). How about shuffling the tracks so you don't know what you'll get each time?

I intend to do a large number of remixes consisting of selections from all Lemmings games. My current idea is to have every stage associated with one particular track (not necessarily having a unique tune for each level), but it's also crossed my mind that the music can change playlist-style while you're working. Listening to the same thing for too long can be maddening, and some levels certainly make you sit there a while.

Quote from: Clam SpammerFast forward and replay features are huge for reducing frustration. EricLang's level editing and playtesting program, Lemmix, also inclided frameskip and savestates, which might be worth considering.

In addition to adjustable release rate, these are good ideas. I can't see save states being a part of the main product, though. Wouldn't frame skip fall under the category of fast forward?

Quote from: Clam SpammerMix up the themes from one level to the next, rather than having tribes, to add variety while playing through the game.

My current considerations will be removing the Tribes concept altogether. It's fun seeing different colors every now and then, but I can't see it having any practical application, and that's a lot of hand-drawn cels to draw! The Lemmings all have different costumes.That's not a simple palette-swap like Lemmings 2. As for variety, well, basically all the Tribe themes will be lumped into the main levels. First you're out in the wilderness one level, then it's medieval, then all of a sudden it's snowing in the next level, etc.

Quote from: Clam SpammerEliminate the "blocks" system of L3 and 3D. This seems archaic to me and wouldn't fit with your "comical, hand-drawn" idea.

Correct. In fact, I'm working out some of the techincal details that would enable the stage geometry to be mathematical instead of a per-pixel collision model. This is something that will be necessary for scaling the graphics between standard definition and high definition (as well as 4:3 and 16:9 aspect ratios) without altering gameplay, plus it'll be fun to do. It'll also allow all graphics to remain antialiased, even after you destroy a chunk of terrain. Oh, and the Filler skill. Frightful to implement, but it'd be awesome. (-:

Quote from: Clam SpammerI have a some more ideas still, but I'll let others share their thoughts first.

Awww. C'mon!

I should probably also have mentioned that I would like to make a multiplayer option in some way. I'm aware the original Lemmings had a 2-player mode, but I honestly haven't done much work with it. Any suggestions?

I don't want this to sound like an "I'm making an awesome Lemmings game" thread, so I'd like to stress that this is only for things that might conceivably, possibly become a project somewhere down the line in the distant future... if I feel like it... maybe.

Having officially played every Lemmings game now (including Adventures of Lomax, which is actually a pretty decent game), I'm considering the merits of making one of my own and, if I do, the mechanics and features of such a project. No need to question my capabilities: I don't stick to Game Maker and Rich-Text for help files. I have game programming experience, so... Well, just pretend I'm the best there ever was and don't worry about it. It's not the how I'm concerned with at this point. Just the what.

For a few years I've been in this little side-scroller mood. Even though today's technology can produce the most breathtaking of 3D graphics doesn't mean you have to make 3D games with it. While side-scrolling games with 3D graphics (see: Super Smash Bros.) can be pulled off to good effect, I'm currently a big fan of old-fashioned, comical, hand-drawn 2D (like the new Wario Land). I can't stand pixelated graphics, personally. They were fine when that's all there was, but brand new fan projects end up sticking with the retro look and it just feels off because there's so much good out there that can be done... So long story short, this theoretical, non-existant project would be a high-res 2D game with comical, hand-drawn graphics.

Throughout my experiences in the Lemmings plethora of good and bad software workmanship, I've been able to put together a list of things that I like and dislike about each of the games and what I think would be good for a new game:

• I don't like unlimited Blockers. Lemmings 3 (All New World/Chronicles) allows you to do this, and while it's convenient, going back and playing Lemmings 2 afterwards really opened my eyes to how much more interesting the levels are when you don't have all the Lemmings corraled all the time. Sports 10, anyone?
  
• I like the Lemmings 2 idea of a larger assortment of skills, where only a small selection is available in any given level. Likewise, I like the idea of putting skill items on the level itself like Lemmings 3. The best compromise I can think of is that picking up a skill on the map puts it in your global inventory for any Lemming to use. "You receive 3 Floater!" and what-not.
  
• If saving Lemmings for use in later levels is a goal, the levels should not require the Lemmings to die. Exploder should not be a requirement! It bothered me to no end being forced to kill off much of my Classic tribe, especially since you need to save 53 for a golden piece of the talisman. That was nuts.
  
• Revolution's connecting edges made things a lot more interesting, though I'm not sure there's any good way to present that with a flat display...
  
• Blockers should be able to stop blocking. Using a Jumper works on the Attractor; why not Blocker? Perhaps using the Blocker skill a second time makes it back into a Walker?
  
• Levels should be designed to minimize the use of the "hero" Lemming: the one that builds the path for all the others to take while distracted by a Blocker or Attractor. That's just boring. Even simple multitasking is an improvement. Nothing crazy that requires at least five pointing devices, but something a little more than The One.
  
• Each stage definitely needs to have a different music than the previous one, even if there are only two to choose from and they alternate. The bagpipes are haunting me in my dreams.
  
• I liked the fan. I want to see it make a comeback.
  
• No blood. Lemmings 3's trap animations were cute, but it just seems so out-of-place. Gotta go for that E rating, after all!
  

That's all I can think of for now. Anyone else have anything they've always wanted to see/not see in a Lemmings game?