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Lemmings Boards => Challenges => Topic started by: Proxima on January 12, 2021, 07:00:29 PM

Title: NeoLemmix: Other challenges
Post by: Proxima on January 12, 2021, 07:00:29 PM
This topic collects results for pass/fail challenges, i.e. ones where we ask "Which levels are possible with a given condition?" and don't have a numerical component to the results. These tend to give rise to shorter topics than numerical challenges, simply because there is no room for improving on existing results, so after a discussion on discord we decided to combine them into a single topic. If any of them become popular enough to move on to other packs beyond Redux, we can split them out into separate topics, but for now, we'll combine them and see how it goes.

Links to pass/fail challenges for DOS Lemmings (click to show/hide)

And now, on to the results! :thumbsup:

Assign skills to only one lemming - Lemmings Redux

Gentle: All except 3, 4, 6, 28, 30, 32
Quirky: All except 2, 3, 10, 13, 15, 20, 21, 24, 28, 29
Zany: 1-4, 6-10, 16, 18-21, 24-26, 28, 31
Manic: 7, 13, 16-19, 21, 22, 24*, 25, 29, 30
Lunatic: 1, 9, 15, 25, 30

* theoretical but not confirmed yet

One skill per lemming - Lemmings Redux

Gentle: All except 4, 18, 23, 28, 29, 32
Quirky: 1, 2, 4, 11-13, 16, 19-21, 25, 27, 28, 32
Zany: 2-10, 13, 16, 18, 20, 22, 24, 28, 30
Manic: 15, 17, 18, 28
Lunatic: 2, 6, 7, 11, 25, 31

One of each skill - Lemmings Redux

Gentle: 1-12, 14, 17, 18, 20, 22, 27, 30, 32
Quirky: 1, 2, 6, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 19, 20, 25
Zany: 6, 7, 9-11, 19, 20, 24, 28, 30
Manic: 6, 7, 12, 17, 20-25, 29
Lunatic: 1, 3, 4, 21, 25, 27, 31, 32

Undamaged levels - Lemmings Redux

Gentle: 2, 3, 7, 9-14, 19, 20, 22, 24, 27, 30, 32
Quirky: 8, 16, 18, 20, 26, 32
Zany: 5, 10, 12, 16, 21, 24, 25, 30
Manic: 2, 7, 14, 23, 30-32
Lunatic: 10, 11, 18, 26, 27

Fixed RR 99 - Lemmings Redux

Gentle: All levels solved!
Quirky: All except 2, 13, 28
Zany: All except 27 and 30
Manic: Al except 9
Lunatic: All except 3, 5, 12, 13, 20
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Other challenges
Post by: Minim on January 12, 2021, 08:58:55 PM
Nice idea! :thumbsup: We never really followed the pass/fail (Or maybe we could call it fixed) challenges; therefore they're the ones that fall towards the bottom the quickest because it's either yes/no. To collaborate the more interesting ones together is a brainwave indeed in terms of keeping the board tidy. I'll keep an eye on these challenge topics, maybe except for the one I'm about to explain below.

The only dilemma however is the Classic 8 skills challenge. Apart from "It's Hero Time" somebody will need to convert these levels and upload an attachment upon request. Redux is a huge pack and there could be a case of "Repeat Level syndrome". Maybe select some of namida's LP packs as an example? Most of his levels are short and compact and could make good one-per-skill levels. You'll also need to watch out for long/multiple gaps, and bottom-to-top levels, as these are usually regarded as impossible.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Other challenges
Post by: namida on January 12, 2021, 09:29:53 PM
Quote
Apart from "It's Hero Time" somebody will need to convert these levels and upload an attachment upon request. Redux is a huge pack and there could be a case of "Repeat Level syndrome".

1. Download Notepad++ (or any other text editor with a "Replace In Files" function + regular expressions support).
2. Create a copy of the pack you want to make this change to.
3. Modify the info.nxmi to add a "(1 of each)" or whatever note to the title, so you don't get confused about which one is the normal one vs modified one in the Level Select menu.
4. Run the following Replace In Files on the pattern "*.nxlv", making sure to set the correct path, enable the "Include subfolders" option, and enable the "Regular expressions" and ". matches newline" settings:
From: \$SKILLSET.*?\$END
To: \$SKILLSET\nCLIMBER 1\nFLOATER 1\nBOMBER 1\nBLOCKER 1\nBUILDER 1\nBASHER 1\nMINER 1\nDIGGER 1\n\$END

This will change the skillset of all levels in the pack to 1 of each traditional skill.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Other challenges
Post by: Minim on January 13, 2021, 09:44:16 AM
OK, just downloaded the latest Notepad++ version today, but because this is new to me, I haven't got the hang of it. :XD: I was able to run and open up the document, but couldn't find anything to configure the "Include subfolders", "Regular expressions" and ". matches newline" buttons.

Maybe a video tutorial will help me with this? I'll keep trying.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Other challenges
Post by: namida on January 13, 2021, 06:03:00 PM
Sure, here you go: https://youtu.be/qYYmd9XQnQQ

The first 12 minutes show you how to do it, while explaining in some depth how it works - which is useful if you want to understand the general idea so you can expand it to other things (like doing your own custom skillsets instead of just copy-pasting a formula that someone else gives).

Alternatively, if you just want a crash course on "where exactly do I enter the settings I was given", start at the 12 minute mark. (Even if you watch the full video, it's probably useful to watch the post-12-min section just as a quick recap of "here's everything that's actually part of the "how to do it" rather than just "why does this work" stuff".)
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Other challenges
Post by: Minim on January 14, 2021, 09:45:50 AM
OK, I saw the video this morning and managed it! I nearly confused the front slash for the back slash as you wrote slash in. Also, a level could've been tested on the NeoLemmix player itself as well as the document, but thanks for the help.

The 1 of each pack has been uploaded for anyone interested.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Other challenges
Post by: namida on January 14, 2021, 09:42:22 PM
I've made a tool which makes this even easier: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5382.0

Quote
Also, a level could've been tested on the NeoLemmix player itself as well as the document, but thanks for the help.

I don't see this as necessary. I can already tell in the text editor that the correct change has occurred, and the viewer knows what should happen; why do I need to specifically add to the video to show it? I could understand this if it wasn't clear exactly what I was describing, but I think this is a simple enough case that it's not needed.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Other challenges
Post by: Proxima on January 19, 2021, 10:00:04 PM
Here's the modified version of Lemmings Redux for the 1-of-each challenge, based on today's update to the Redux pack (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4374.msg89708#msg89708).
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Other challenges
Post by: Proxima on January 20, 2021, 07:22:39 AM
We did the 1-of-each challenge in discord yesterday. Here are my interesting replays from the session.

Gentle 14 "CindyLand" (namida had done this in a previous challenge, but it was new to me)
Quirky 1 "PoP YoR ToP!!!"
Quirky 6 "Just a Quicky"
Manic 24 "The race against cliches" (tricky to get the timing of releasing the crowd, but I happened to get it first try and hit the time limit exactly :P )
Manic 29 "Just a Minute (Part Two)"
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Other challenges
Post by: namida on January 20, 2021, 07:39:17 PM
My interesting replays from that. I personally haven't looked at Lunatic yet.

EDIT: Had a look through and all the remaining ones seemed clearly not doable.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Other challenges
Post by: Minim on January 21, 2021, 04:17:56 PM
Right, I've gone all the way through the "One skill per lemming" challenge. Here are my final results. Most results are attached with a replay in a zip file, with comments on some of the levels.

Gentle: 1-3, 5-17, 19-22, 24, 26-27, 30-31.
Quirky: 1-2, 4, 11-13, 16, 19, 20, 21, 25, 27, 28, 32
Zany: 2-10, 13, 16, 18, 20, 22, 24, 28, 30
Manic: 15, 17, 18, 28.
Lunatic: 2, 6, 7, 11, 25, 31

Quirky 1 (Pop yor top) is similar to Gronkling's time solution, just swapped roles for the last bomber.

Quirky 13 (Haunted botanical garden) is simply the 2-skill method.

Quirky 28 (Speed Trap) is the same as the published fastest time solution.

Quirky 31 (Cascade) is out of reach because of NL's deadly ceiling.

Zany 22 (Snow Joke) was an unexpected success. I used the RR's of the fastest time solution and just bashed under the one-way to save the climbers. I was lucky that the next basher was able to get through the ice blaster and stop just before it bashes the tall clump of snow towards death. I had plenty of builders left for them to do the crucial last part.

"Poles Apart" and "Lunch Time" are not possible thanks to different digger mechanics for five pixel walls.

Manic 28 is easy as the main solution doesn't involve run-off areas.

Lunatic 31 (Which is literally the level that requires action from several lems) is the same as the published 8-digger solution.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Other challenges
Post by: Proxima on January 21, 2021, 04:56:20 PM
Nice work! :thumbsup:

Here's Gentle 25, The Crankshaft. It does look like remaining levels in Gentle are impossible for obvious reasons.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Other challenges
Post by: Minim on January 22, 2021, 05:39:38 AM
Thanks, I also had one-lem results for Manic and Lunatic, and with no improvements it appears that I did far worse than you. :D Nice job on Manic 7, 21 and 22 though. Do you have replays for those?

The last rank is tough! I solved only five levels so far in Lunatic: 1, 9, 15, 25, 30 (Replays for last three)

Unfortunately Lunatic 2 and 28 are impossible solutions to copy from DOS thanks to differing jump mechanics.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Other challenges
Post by: Minim on January 31, 2021, 06:36:19 AM
So, after over a week and a half, I've been doing the "directional" challenges for both ways. So far I've done all the ranks for the left side, but just the first four for the right. Here are my results so far. I'll post some of my replays in a bundle soon.

Gentle
L: 1, 4, 6, 8-17, 19-21, 23, 27, 29
R: 1, 2, 4-14, 16-22, 24-26, 28, 31

Quirky
L: 1, 6, 8, 14, 23.
R: 1-5, 8, 10-12, 15, 16, 19, 20, 25, 27-31,

Zany
L: 4, 6, 7, 13, 20.
R: 1, 3, 6-8, 10-20, 22-27, 29-32.

Manic
L: 1, 7, 18, 24
R: 3, 7, 8, 11, 12, 14-17, 19, 21, 22, 27-29,

Lunatic
L: 2, 6, 12, 16, 17.

Zany 20 Left is the same as the published Skills per lemming solution. Manic 14 Right, Zany 1 Right, Manic 1 Left, Quirky 28 Right and Quirky 4 Right are the fastest time solutions. Manic 24 Left is similar too, but swapped a right builder for a left builder basher. Quirky 19 right is similar too, but has a basher left over for me to bash through the wall trap. Hard to believe I solved more Lunatic than Manic levels going left. Zany 5 right needs verifying, as it's a tedious challenge. On the plus side, "Down the tube" is now possible. Have a guess what it is... :P

The one that also needs verifying (And that is close to solving) is Lunatic 4 right, a.k.a. the famous Fun 4 remake. I jigged around with the release rate to get everyone through the miner, now it looks like I'll need another miner to break the stair without anyone else in the crowd falling with him. Here's the replay of my progress so far.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Other challenges
Post by: WillLem on January 31, 2021, 09:42:14 AM
I'm redoing Don't Turn Around! but with the condition that under no circumstances can any lemming face any direction other than that in which they originally spawn. A few of the other versions of this challenge that I've seen allow turning in digger pits, and Proxima's version allows lemmings to turn a maximum of 1 time.

So, here are my results for No Turning At All:

Unless noted (in brackets), all levels are solved with 100% saved.
Results in grey = Blockers used for crowd control (*see spoiler below for details).

Lemmings
Fun: 1, 2, 5, 6, 7, 9, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 (-5), 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27
Tricky: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 12, 13 (-10), 14, 15 (-3), 17 (-2), 18 (-1), 19, 20 (-1), 21, 24 (-3), 25 (-90), 26, 28, 29, 30 (-1)
Taxing: 1, 5 (-2), 10, 12, 14 (-1), 15, 19 (-5), 20, 22, 25 (-8), 27 (-22), 29 (-3), 30
Mayhem: 4, 8 (-4), 13, (14?), 17, 22, (26?)

Oh No! More Lemmings
Tame:
Crazy:
Wild:
Wicked:
Havoc:

Redux
Gentle:
Quirky:
Zany:
Manic:
Lunatic:

*Blocker trick used for crowd control (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Other challenges
Post by: Proxima on January 31, 2021, 07:09:21 PM
Lots of new results to look over :P This might take a while.

Directional challenge: I've looked over Gentle so far, and all the rest look definitely impossible, except 30R (maybe a case of the talisman's existence making you forget the normal solution? :P ) and 31L (tricky, but no more so than some of the ones you already did!)
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Other challenges
Post by: Minim on January 31, 2021, 08:57:50 PM
I have finally verified and solved Lunatic 4 right! This should also theoretically be doable on DOS. I now have a big bundle with this replay attached. The rest of my Lunatic Right results are:

R: 4, 6, 11, 14, 15, 17, 21, 23-25, 31.

And yes, I did forget to add Gentle 30R to my list. Whoops! :P
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Other challenges
Post by: Minim on February 02, 2021, 06:51:53 AM
On the spoiler tag is my workings out to Lunatic 4 Right's crowd control. It's a bit messy, with some of the letters not been chosen at all, and some of it might even be wrong too. :o But I hope this'd be a useful reference when attempting the DOS equivalent.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Anyway, the Undamaged Levels results have arrived! The ones that are doable are not too hard, and some of them, like "Fix the road, quick!", are inherited of course. ;) However, the ones that look impossible are loud and clear I'm sorry to say, as I've solved only 39 of them.

Gentle: 2-3, 7, 9-14, 19, 20, 24, 30, 32
Quirky: 8, 16, 18, 20, 26, 32
Zany: 5, 10, 12, 16, 21, 25, 30
Manic: 2, 7, 14, 23, 30-32
Lunatic: 10, 11, 18, 26, 27.

On Gentle 9 I was able to get up and round the landscape with 6 builders to spare. On Gentle 20 I used the surroundings to my advantage. 30 is relatively easy as I made a wide stair and bashed inside it. My Quirky 20 solution feels like a talisman backroute I think, particularly if it's silver. Zany 5 is also quite easy too, after connecting two bridges across the river. Zany 12 just requires building into the steps to hold the other lemming, nothing too hard. Lunatic 26 and 27 are the published fastest time solutions.

Solutions to some of the harder levels are attached in a bundle, but I think Manic levels 14 and 32 are the best challenges of the lot. I also thought Quirky 27: "The Island of the Wicker People" would be doable too, but if only there was a way to free a blocker while staying on the builder's staircase... Because you need all five builders to navigate your way to the exit.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Other challenges
Post by: Proxima on February 02, 2021, 10:09:56 AM
Nice work! I'm sorry to say that you did miss a few 8-)

Gentle 22 "Let's be careful out there" I'm guessing was just a slip, since you solved its harder version :P
Gentle 27 "Quest for Kieran" works with the fixed version I released last night.
Zany 24 "I have a cunning plan" is solvable with builders only.

...and it does look like the rest are indeed impossible.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Other challenges
Post by: Proxima on February 09, 2021, 10:20:59 PM
The new version of "Quest for Kieran" is much more challenge-friendly than the old one 8-) (Of course, that wasn't the reason for making the change; the old one was simply inaccurate to how the level is supposed to be.)

It's still possible with skills to one lemming (the 2-skill solution (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5199.msg90242#msg90242) meets this criterion). It's possible with one skill per lemming; 1 of each skill; and undamaged (as I posted just above). Obviously, Don't Turn Around and skills to left-facing lemmings only are also possible.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Other challenges
Post by: Minim on March 08, 2021, 09:01:24 PM
Right. A month on and the 99 Release Rate records are out (Including updated ones)!

Gentle: All except 27.
Quirky: 1, 3-12, 14-27, 29-32.
Zany: All except 27 and 30.
Manic: 1-8, 10-29, 32.
Lunatic: 1-2, 4, 6-11, 14-19, 21-24, 26, 28-32.

Here's a hint for Lunatic 19: Private room available.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And for Lunatic 11: Fix the road, quick!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Good luck matching (or bettering) these results!
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Other challenges
Post by: Proxima on March 08, 2021, 09:13:22 PM
A few more RR99 replays:

Gentle 27 "Quest for Kieran" (requires the updated version, with the closer exit)
Manic 31 "Where Lemmings Dare"
Lunatic 25 "Watch right or left (Part Two)"
Lunatic 27 "Let's go camping"
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Other challenges
Post by: Minim on March 28, 2021, 07:22:24 PM
Oh dear. :( On my first run I tried to do something different and create a pack of 99RR levels for my first run, so that I didn't have to repeatedly press the Right mouse button every time; and tried not to constantly fill results on my document. NeoLemmix crashed at a point during my first run while I was very close to the end, losing all my progress. When I got back, the second time round I decided to fill a document. By the time I got to Lunatic 25 and 27, I literally forgot how to solve them. I must thank Proxima for completing these two. Those were simply overlooked.


Anyway, NeoLemmix Results for the "Don't turn Around" challenges are out. These results are based on every lemming allowed a maximum of one turn for each level.
Gentle: 1-2, 5-10, 12-15, 17-20, 22, 24, 26, 27, 30-32.
Quirky: 1-2, 6, 11, 13, 15, 21, 31.
Zany: 5, 10-13, 19, 24, 26, 28, 30.
Manic: 4, 6-7, 9, 14, 15, 30.
Lunatic: 23-25.

Best challenge award goes to Zany 28. Otherwise this was a particularly boring challenge for me, so I'll leave the unsolvable levels to somebody else. :XD: Zany 19 is similar to the Silver Talisman. Thanks to the left facing entrance, Manic 24 is not possible AFAIK because you have to cross the level with every lemming with one go, especially with the poles are too high, and the floaters sorely lacking. Lunatic 24 looks more like a severe backroute (again) despite the level fixes implemented earlier. 25 is simply the fastest time solution. Interesting replays attached in a zip file.

OK, I've done my bit for today. I have my birthday to look forward to tomorrow so good night.