Lemming trapped in "Scaling the heights" (Oh No! More Lemmings!)
Climber that crosses through bridge in "Have a nice day"
Blocker that doesn't block on (descending to the left) steep path in "Valley Of Fire"
Builder that doesn't build at the very (left) edge on "Up, Down or Round and Round" (it's possible to build a bridge one step beyond when facing right, as seen on the replay)
Builder that doesn't build at the very (left) edge on "Up, Down or Round and Round" (it's possible to build a bridge one step beyond when facing right, as seen on the replay)
By the way, when you talk about WinLemm, you mean Lemmings 95
-In Mazulems 16 ("It's a Magical World"), the "magic trick" no longer works on SuperLemmini.
-In Mazulems 16 ("It's a Magical World"), the "magic trick" no longer works on SuperLemmini.
Absence of a bug isn't a bug :P
-In Mazulems 16 ("It's a Magical World"), the "magic trick" no longer works on SuperLemmini. I don't know if this trick works on Amiga, but since Mazulems was composed in the late MS-DOS days, I assume that it will work on MS-DOS.
-Hail 6 ("Surprise Package?") it's very hard to solve with the % required. On Amiga and/or DOS, it's fairly easy even to surpass the objective.
Lemming trapped in "Scaling the heights" (Oh No! More Lemmings!)I'll investigate this a bit further, but I think this can happen in the Amiga version. Basically, the game checks only a few pixels (one pixel at the feet and two at the head in the original game) to determine whether the builder has hit a wall or ceiling, and if the builder is deep enough in the ground (seven pixels in the original game) when it stops building, it will get stuck.
Climber that crosses through bridge in "Have a nice day" (Sega Genesis Lemmings, but probably also in Original Lemmings)As WillLem showed, this can happen in the Amiga version too.
Blocker that doesn't block on (descending to the left) steep path in "Valley Of Fire" (Van Clan Lemmings)WillLem explained this well.
Builder that doesn't build at the very (left) edge on "Up, Down or Round and Round" (it's possible to build a bridge one step beyond when facing right, as seen on the replay)Yeah, the brick positions for left- and right-facing builders aren't symmetrical, even in the original games. (I will still try this level in the Amiga version to see whether that also requires two builders for that gap.)
-In Mazulems 16 ("It's a Magical World"), the "magic trick" no longer works on SuperLemmini. I don't know if this trick works on Amiga, but since Mazulems was composed in the late MS-DOS days, I assume that it will work on MS-DOS.You mean what the climber does here?
-Hail 6 ("Surprise Package?") it's very hard to solve with the % required. On Amiga and/or DOS, it's fairly easy even to surpass the objective.Yes, I just verified that the level is indeed difficult in SuperLemmini. I need to investigate this further. (And the game does nuke each lemming every two frames as it should [I just verified this], so that's not the problem.)
You mean what the climber does here?
https://youtu.be/D6Ren_bMVcU?list=PL16FA900A49F71C61&t=67
What's happening here is the climber moves away from the wall by at least a pixel when it hits a ceiling, which I'm pretty sure happens only in some versions of the game and not the Amiga version. (I will still check it, just in case.)
You mean what the climber does here?
https://youtu.be/D6Ren_bMVcU?list=PL16FA900A49F71C61&t=67
What's happening here is the climber moves away from the wall by at least a pixel when it hits a ceiling, which I'm pretty sure happens only in some versions of the game and not the Amiga version. (I will still check it, just in case.)
Yes, that trick. namida mentioned this also happens in Amiga. However, I didn't test it yet. An obvious and quick way to verify this is playing Amiga Fun 11 in an emulator, and see if this trick works in both walls of the level. I can check it later.
Lemming trapped in "Scaling the heights" (Oh No! More Lemmings!)I checked the Amiga version, and I couldn't get the lemming stuck there. This probably is a consequence of the higher resolution.
-In Mazulems 16 ("It's a Magical World"), the "magic trick" no longer works on SuperLemmini. I don't know if this trick works on Amiga, but since Mazulems was composed in the late MS-DOS days, I assume that it will work on MS-DOS.I just checked the Amiga version: The lemming does indeed move away from the wall by an extra pixel upon reaching a ceiling. I've changed SuperLemmini to do the same (albeit by two pixels to account for the higher resolution).
-Hail 6 ("Surprise Package?") it's very hard to solve with the % required. On Amiga and/or DOS, it's fairly easy even to surpass the objective.It looks like the level is just as "hard" in the Amiga version, if not just a tiny bit easier. I think the speed at which the release rate is increased, as well as when the nuke is timed, affects how many lemmings you will save. (Using the one blocker to better consolidate the crowd can also help.)
I just checked the Amiga version: The lemming does indeed move away from the wall by an extra pixel upon reaching a ceiling. I've changed SuperLemmini to do the same (albeit by two pixels to account for the higher resolution).
Your choice, of course, but I don't agree that imitating a bug in the original games is the right decision
Hey Tsyu, another bug that has been observed. See attached replay. The climbers are able to climb through the ceiling and act as if there is no terrain above them when climbing. This also happens in custom level packs as well, but the one I have requires an L2 style, and so it's not going to load correctly. Is this climber behavior intentional? I highly doubt it. Credit goes to ericderkovits for discovering this, since he caught this while converting a Lemmini pack to Superlemmini.
Also another one that eric discovered, and that is a climber is still able to get over a builder wall (one where you use 3 builders stacked behind one another to create an impassable wall). However, if 4 builders are used, then it will stop a climber from getting over the builder wall. Is this intended behavior in Superlemmini as well?
What is showcased in the screenshot , is actually not a bug! This is part of the intended climber behaviour in the original games ( like the dos version or the Amiga version of the game )! In that case , the behaviour of the climbers is correct in Superlemmini , and it's Lemmini and Neolemmix that have it wrong!
And that is because , Lemmini and Neolemmix , doesn't try to come close to the physics of the original games , and in comparison Superlemmini tries to emulate the Amiga physics (excluding things like glitches)!
The general rule in that case on the climber behaviour in the original game is that the climber when it starts climbing , can surpass larger obstacles , compared to what it can surpass in Lemmini/Neolemmix!
And to be honest here , I have years , to play the Amiga version , so what I describe in terms of physics , is based on the dos version of the game! But basic skill behaviours like this are the same between the dos and Amiga versions of the game , so in that case that climber behaviour seems to be intentional , a a result of Superlemmini emulating the physics of the Amiga version of the game!
EDIT: Also what I describe here , is based on the screenshot you have attached! I haven't seen the replay you have attached!
AFAIK, these climber issues are not present in the Dos version (climber doesn't climb through several pixels of ceiling in the way like you see in the screenshot, 3 builder wall stops climbers properly).
There are dos/Lemmix custom levels that you need to build a 3 builder wall to contain the crowd , and then strategically , to assign some climbers , that they will climb through the 3 builder wall , and will prepare the path for the other lemmings!
I have the videos of the solutions for two of these levels in my channel! Now , I know that you don't like to have solutions , or parts of solutions of custom levels , spoiled , but I will post the link for one of these , so anyone else that will watch it , will be able to confirm here that this is possible!
Link for the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kDTPPi-qPs
The level is :Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also I'm not sure if it's 100% similar to the situation that is showcased in the screenshot , but here is an example of a dos/Lemmix that I think it showcases something similar:
The level is "Rise Through the Ranks" by Clam , from the ClamSpam04 pack ( link for the pack: http://lemmings-db.camanis.net/levelpack/ag1zfmxlbW1pbmdzLWRichALEglMZXZlbFBhY2sY4gIM/ )
As you can see in the preview picture of the level in the link , there is ceiling above the opening hatch! If you assign a lemming as a climber in dos/Lemmix , it will climb through that ceiling! In Lemmini/Neolemmix that's not possible!
I have posted some "Lemmix to Neolemmix" level conversions of some very old levels! One of these is practically Lemmix/Superlemmini physics exclusive (It's main trick is completely impossible in Neolemmix)! Another of these also uses a trick that is not possible in Neolemmix , and in my solution of another of these , I also use another "not possible in Neoleemix" trick , that it can be avoided ( so that level is still possible in Neolemmix)!
Yes, I agree with Kaywhyn. Although these issues may be present in the Amiga version levels and no original levels require these, I do also think they should be fixed. Because most people don't just want to play the original games with Superlemmini. Many people also want to play custom packs too. Also if Superlemmini is going to even remotely compete with NL, they should be fixed, otherwise people will just want to play custom packs in NL.
Also people should be glad that I'm fond of Superlemmini and am willing to take the time to make more custom packs for Superlemmini.
I've read Tsyu's info doc on how packs work(levelpack.ini and .ini's work). Even Willem requested info on this as I posted a small example on how to pack levels,
as I know Willem likes Superlemmini too. He found this part difficult, where I find it rather easy(with help from Tsyu's doc)
yes, I see you like to explore physics in different engines. I just thought of an idea(not sure if Tsyu would ever do it since he wants to model Amiga). I wonder if Tsyu could have an option(under the options menu), if he could have one choose what behaviors a climber could have (ie 3 builder or 4 builder wall to stop climbers (ie: choice to model Amiga, Dos or NL as an option)). Although
not sure is this would be easy to implement.
This way one could choose what behavior a climber should have, to allow for normal behavior or irregular behavior. This way it would satisfy both regular play and irregular play(such as levels that Turrican likes). Make the climber behavior a choice in the Options menu.
As I mentioned before, I'm indifferent to glitches, but I lean more towards don't like them vs do. My reasoning is that skills should act reasonably and predictably, not the other way around! That being said, I still enjoyed the custom pack Pimolems on Lemmini very much. Other than one or two that definitely shouldn't be possible but is because of the way the miner works in Lemmini, the others aren't as strange and they generally don't take too long to hit upon in the pack. One of them is a climber glitch that I'm quite familiar with because it's also present in Dos, while the other one is strange but can simply just be thought of that the level sides has invisible solid terrain so that lemmings can climb or simply turn around in Lemmini
yes, I see you like to explore physics in different engines. I just thought of an idea(not sure if Tsyu would ever do it since he wants to model Amiga). I wonder if Tsyu could have an option(under the options menu), if he could have one choose what behaviors a climber could have (ie 3 builder or 4 builder wall to stop climbers (ie: choice to model Amiga, Dos or NL as an option)). Although
not sure is this would be easy to implement.
That is a nice idea , but it also may be risky too , because many players from what I'm seeing , like to have one physics engine for their lemmings clone , that covers all the custom content , without small execeptions , or options like these!
As I said , it's up to the players to decide , if things like these climber behaviours need to change, and personally I don't have any problem , with whatever will be decided! That's not a big deal for me!
I'm not talking only about glitches here! It is possible due to differences in physics to have also non-glitch tricks that's possible to one engine , but not in another! The "Lemmix/Superlemmini physics exclusive" level I mention , requires a really awesome non-glitch trick in order to be solved , that unfortunately that's not possible to Neolemmix due to differences in physics!
Yeah, both you are right. It was a suggestion only. Most people wouldn't want the option, although Tysu mentioned something about 2 game modes(original-using timed bombers, and easy mode-where it currently stands). So I believe Tsyu likes having options. I know Willlem liked the Idea.
Or maybe make suggestions on how to accomplish this climber issue so if one still like the irregular climber issue, then one can still have those levels.
I don't think Tsyu is active on here any more, haven't heard from him in aaages. Does anyone else know how to code in Java?
I think that person probably would had done some changes to SL already if he or she knew coding in Java. In my case, even if I did know some Java (which I 100% don't have any knowledge of Java coding), I'm one who wouldn't touch another person's project, at least without permission. Asking for permission is, after all, the courteous thing to do.
a) SuperLemmini's source code is available for making alternative versions, and it's my understanding that anybody with the necessary coding skills is welcome to do so. SL itself is an offshoot of the earlier program Lemmini.