Blue/green hatches + blue/green exits
Non-assignment fields or surfaces
TurboLemming Maker!
However, let's not post any outright joke suggestions in this topic.
Ice / slippery terrain: There is a big problem with this idea. We already have ice in some tilesets, and it is not slippery. Introducing new ice that is slippery when old ice isn't would be very confusing.
Screen wrap: We have this in Lix, and it's mainly a multiplayer feature, with occasional use in single-player puzzles. I don't think it adds enough to be worth considering at this stage, especially since it can be simulated with portals.
:8(): Permanent skill assigner: No, this is getting out of hand. Just use a pick-up skill if you want a permanent skill to be only available after reaching a certain point.
:8(): Gates that only let one lemming past: Not worth being a separate object since this is easy to set up with a button and gate.
Namida has made clear that screen wrap will only be coming back if it's also in a non-violating way: allowing the player to scroll continuously instead of surprising them when a lemming walks off-screen and comes back on the other side.
Why can't we just have a glowy effect on the map edges if wrap is in play, or something?
You're assuming button activated gates get in, though.
Why can't we just have a glowy effect on the map edges if wrap is in play, or something?
QuoteWhy can't we just have a glowy effect on the map edges if wrap is in play, or something?
This is also an option, though not my preference. The important thing is that it's clearly communicated to the player.
But at any rate, "screen wrap" is not an object, and discussion of it does not belong in this topic, except maybe in terms of how it directly interacts with (or makes redundant, or is made redundant by) proposed objects.
Splat pads are difficult to use in this way due to their limited trigger areas
No-effect animations: Why? This is just lying to the player, something we've agreed again and again is not NL's philosophy. If something visible happens in response to a trigger, it should have an effect.
Just wanting to re-open this discussion.
I'm particularly interested in the idea of lemming-specific entrance hatches and exits. To some extent, this can be set up by using limited-number exits, but going a step further to incorporate 2-Player-style gameplay where certain exits only allow certain lems through would, I think, be a really interesting way forward...
Permanent-skill-only exits will not be happening, if that's what you're referencing.
If you just mean as in Blue vs Green lemmings like in 2P mode, with no other differences
this topic isn't the place to discuss that, as it's not an object type.
At any rate, it's also very unlikely to happen - without even starting to consider any technical considerations, how do you propose it would work visually, keeping in mind there's a limited color space for recoloring and much of it is already used?
If this seems way too complicated, then maybe it would be best not to do this at all, but to have a look at implementing a straight-up 2-Player mode instead... I think that's really what I'm hoping for, when I actually think about it.
Local 2P is not impossible, but I doubt there's enough demand to make that happen.
Networked 2P is not going to happen. I wouldn't know where to even start with implementing that.
A type of objects that specifies it is only for use by the editor.
These could be used to create objects that show things like builder bridges, basher tunnels, skill assignment markers etc. Perople could create their own objects like this to bring in level plans made externally. The editor could do various things with this set of objects - the player would just need to know to ignore a certain type of object.
A few of them fall under the new "catch-many" clause that I honestly can't believe I even need to mention: "Anything that is not an object" is, while perhaps not rejected outright, this topic is not the place to discuss it. This includes things like multiple colors / groups of lemmings, screen wrap, Karoshi, etc.
Willing to consider
- Portals (teleporters that are constant rather than triggered; ie: a portal is to a teleporter, what a fire object is to a triggered trap)
- Toggle buttons or switches (perhaps with a limited scope on what they can toggle; but this could possibly include terrain - with the catch that any toggleable terrain must be steel)
- No-assignment field
- Permanent skill assigner
- Zombifier / Neutral-ifier (and/or reversals thereof)
- Downdraft
- Paint (specific object type for only-on-terrain effect, to replace that effect in general)
Strong contenders
- Permanent skill remover
- No-effect triggered animations (this one will happen unless there's significant opposition to it)
I'd only really be interested in Portals and Toggle buttons / switches, as both would allow for more Lemmings-Revolution level design.
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But I can do without any of those, as long as we get to keep all the new four skills! :thumbsup:
A permanant skill remover on the other hand would do something which can't be done at all otherwise (and never has been to my knowledge).
no assignment field sounds like it has a lot of potential for backroute fixing, possibly.
This is one of the reasons I don't like the idea of this object, to be honest. A perfectly backroute-proof level, to my mind, is just as arbitrary as a trivial "Just (Skill)" level; it might as well be a tutorial level. The first 7 levels of Lemmings are about as backroute-proof as that game gets! ;P
In other words, it's not giving the player any options other than to "paint by the numbers" and follow the exact intentions of the level designer. Levels like these can, on occasion, be quite fun if they happen to reveal a certain trick or if they have one of those "aha!" moments when you realise how to traverse a particular obstacle, but too many of them can just start to feel like you're following instructions rather than playing a game.
There was a gimmick at one point that made the permanent skills one-shot; ie: after one transition to the state the skill provides, the lemming would then lose the skill. (You could of course assign it again, if you had any more copies of it.) It was definitely among the ones with higher potential to create good puzzles.
As a tradeoff for the decision against Wrap (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2953.msg88430#msg88430), I've bumped Portals up to strong contenders
Yes, you could even make a resizable one. Just make sure the visual is very clear on what's going on.
The bomb has the typical design problem that once you have 7 triggers in the map and 7 bombs, it becomes messy to display which switch is which. And the switch must look different from the exit-opening button, nan nan nan.
doors with keys would be more of the same in a different flavor, like vortex/exit and teleporter/portal.
Even though the Grenader didn't make, I still think having something that Bombers can't go through but digging skills can, that would be essential to preventing Bomber backroutes
Given that it was decided to continue allowing Floaters and Gliders to exit
an Floaters and Gliders still exit? Or rather, is the plan to continue to allow this?
Since the splat/antisplat fields have been rejected, could we by any chance get a splat/antisplat pad graphic that looks halfway decent when it's applied to a whole terrain piece?
it's one of the reasons I suggested the fields in the first place.
I'd like to see the fields reconsidered on this basis
One example that comes to mind is a graphic similar to the (anti)splat pads in namida_wasteland, but with the pins at a 45 degree inwards angle, so that the pins hang out the side of terrain and the actual (anti)splat area can exactly overlap it. See attached rough sketch.
A good idea, but it doesn't address irregular-shaped terrain and is still too similar to the existing default splat/anti-splat pads.
For the former, are there that many situations where we need irregularly-shaped (anti)splat zones, rather than being able to create the level in a straight-edged tileset (or use a straight-edged piece, if the tileset is a mixed one)?
a solution to "existing graphic can't nicely cover the entire top of a terrain piece".
in areas which appear empty, thus creating one of those pesky "unfair use" cases.
I don't see what's unfair about it, after all, the player will be able to see an (anti)splat pad in that location.
I have decided to rule out one such object on technical grounds - the Zombie-to-Normal variant is ruled out
With the many gadgets in NeoLemmix, it's certainly often doable to replicate X with Y
can you trap the lemmings to be portalled in a pit with a slow-consuming teleporter
I have a hunch that the portal will pull more weight than I see at first glance
I'm still waiting for a smash hit: An idea so good that namida reacts with "oooooh" and where I'm envious because I didn't think of it first