Lemmings Forums

Lix => Lix Main => Topic started by: Simon on May 15, 2017, 02:02:03 AM

Title: Lix 0.7.22 experimental
Post by: Simon on May 15, 2017, 02:02:03 AM
Hi,

Update 2017-08-22: Lix 0.7.x is obsolete -- instead, get the most recent Lix version (http://www.lixgame.com).



(http://www.lixgame.com/etc/lix-with-d-2017-05-14.png)

(http://www.lixgame.com/etc/lix-with-d-2017-05-13.png)

Lix 0.7.x experimental build.

Download for Windows (http://lixgame.com/dow/lix-exp.zip)
Branch exp in lix-unstable (https://github.com/SimonN/lix-unstable)

Keep separate from your stable Lix 0.6.x installation! Levels, tileses, physics all differ. Let's look for physics bugs in this experimental build, make levels solvable, and re-cover levels with solving replays.

Proxima, Nepster, Rubix: See my next post for level pack maintainers -- I'll list which levels were affected by tileset changes, which levels need new proofs due to subtle physics changes, ...

Physics
Tilesets
-- Simon
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.0 experimental
Post by: Simon on May 15, 2017, 02:10:23 AM
For level maintainers.

Levels with oriental tiles

Please scrutinize these levels. The oriental tiles have different shapes. Some levels aren't solvable anymore because the bamboo rods have become shorter.

lemforum/Cunning/acompletelyridiculous.txt
lemforum/Daunting/juststop.txt
lemforum/Hopeless/recyclingplant.txt
lemforum/Simple/everylix.txt
lemforum/Vicious/waitwhyisthereatree.txt

nepster/5-of-all/15_ParadiseHell.txt
nepster/Moon/16_DontFeedFrogs.txt
nepster/Planet/10_TravellingLix.txt
nepster/Planet/18_ChineseLemmings.txt

rubix/Aftermath/Parallel/8Goldmine.txt
rubix/Nightmare/bangarangpeter.txt
rubix/Nightmare/flatlined.txt
rubix/Perplexing/steptothebeat.txt
rubix/Perplexing/theclairvoyant.txt
rubix/Pleasant/illgoonaheadwait.txt
rubix/Pleasant/thegarden.txt
rubix/Sinister/7up.txt
rubix/Sinister/bridgeovertroubl.txt
rubix/Sinister/treehousetrickery.txt

Other levels with failing replays

Most of these are still solvable. A chunk of replays failed because the builder places its brick further forward, i.e., there is no backstep anymore. Please see further down this thread for a list of failing replays.

Before you start covering levels anew, review the physics changes in 0.7.0. Did I do stupid things? Especially Proxima should get in touch with me about high-level physics changes. Maybe I should chat with Nepster, namida, geoo, Ramond, or whoever else loves to ponder low-level physics.

-- Simon
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.0 experimental
Post by: Simon on May 15, 2017, 09:57:12 PM
Will probably change the blocker mechanics again. The narrower 0.7.0 blocker field is responsible for about half the failing replays. Not sure how to fix. Not sure what I want.

Details in IRC chatlog (https://www.nordicbots.com/?id=73&net=quakenet&cid=81576&year=2017&month=5&day=15)

-- Simon
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.0 experimental
Post by: ccexplore on May 16, 2017, 10:20:32 PM
The narrower 0.7.0 blocker field is responsible for about half the failing replays.

TL;DR the chatlog.  So failing as in "the intended solution no longer works (!)", or merely "the replay stops working because obviously this change slightly alters the timing of any lixes that interacted with blockers, and replays are currently strictly time-based and not position-based"?

If it's the latter, is it really any surprise?  Don't get me wrong, I understand it's kind of annoying for so many replays to get trivially invalidated, but that's a different magnitude of matter than actually affecting solvability.  Also, just so it's clear for other people, it's not half of every level, just the ones where the replays are failing.

It's not ideal perhaps, but at least we don't expect this kind of change to happen all that often, maybe never again, so maybe a one-time pain is alright? :-\
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.1 experimental
Post by: Simon on May 16, 2017, 11:06:09 PM
Uploaded 0.7.1, same download link as in first post. Only difference to 0.7.0 is the blocker behavior, now it's mostly like in 0.6. Description in this post.



So failing as in "the intended solution no longer works (!)", or merely "the replay stops working because obviously this change slightly alters the timing of any lixes that interacted with blockers, and replays are currently strictly time-based and not position-based"?

Replay stops working because obviously the change slightly alters the timing of any lixes that interact with the blocker.

Instead of narrowing the blocker field, Nepster suggested to make a hollow field, and geoo suggested to special-case the blocker field for 0.7.1. This solves the original problem that led me to narrow the blocker field.

0.6.* blocker field:     LLLLLL-RRRRRR
0.7.0 blocker field:      LLLLL-RRRRR
0.7.1 field vs. builder: LLLLL---RRRRR
0.7.1 field vs. others:  LLLLLL-RRRRRR (as in 0.6.*)

Right, it's no surprise that the outside shape affects many replays.

The goal is to always allow the crowd to follow a blocked builder A, even if we assign the blocker to B while the builder A is inside B's future blocker field. I'd like to investigate more whether we want an intrusive change or whether special-casing is OK. Maybe the builder-brick-doubling positions its duplicated brick badly and we should look into that instead.

Quote
It's not ideal perhaps, but at least we don't expect this kind of change to happen all that often, maybe never again, so maybe a one-time pain is alright? :-\

It's probably good style to not break replays or the blocker field. We have changed the builder already. Maybe more changes to its behavior w.r.t. blockers is enough, and walker-blocker interactions can stay like in 0.6.

-- Simon
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.1 experimental
Post by: Simon on May 17, 2017, 12:29:48 AM
Uploaded 0.7.1, download in first post. See previous post for changes.

-- Simon
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.1 experimental
Post by: geoo on May 17, 2017, 09:28:07 AM
I found one issue with the special case for the builder:

If a group of lix is tightly squeezed between two blockers, you can use a builder to get a lix out. I think this might be quite exploitable in practice to separate a second worker, but either way I think this is worse than the crowd unable to follow a turned builder.
Replay attached.
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.1 experimental
Post by: Simon on May 17, 2017, 02:06:03 PM
Thanks! Behavior in 0.6 is that the builder makes a vertical stack, everybody gets free. In 0.7.1, the builder ignores the blocker and everybody else is trapped in the inside column of the field:

0.7.1 field vs. builder: LLLLL---RRRRR
0.7.1 field vs. others:  LLLLLL-RRRRRR (as in 0.6.*)
                                ^

I too think this 0.7.1 needs a revision.

-- Simon
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.1 experimental
Post by: Simon on May 30, 2017, 11:37:45 AM
I think I want the 0.6 blocker back. That blocker has no corner cases and looks good. You can't escape a builder from between two tightly placed 0.6 blockers.

It's probably OK if crowd-follows-builder only in some cases, not all cases. With the brick-doubling 0.7 builder, you can always force crowd-follows-builder even with a 0.6 blocker: Assign blocker to a lix far ahead on the recent builder brick.

Little progress on Lix these weeks beacuse speedruns and reallife and 30 degrees C outside. Eventually, I have to come forward and declare a set of physics standard.

-- Simon
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.1 experimental
Post by: RubiX on June 03, 2017, 02:09:45 PM
Nice job on the Oriental update, its so nice now.
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.2 experimental
Post by: Simon on June 11, 2017, 05:03:42 PM
For Lix 0.7.2, I've reverted the blocker field to the 0.6 blocker field of LLLLLL-RRRRRR everywhere, against everybody, including builders.

Please look at your oriental levels. The tiles look differently in 0.7.x than in 0.6. Do your levels still look reasonable?

Let's prove all levels solvable! More details in the most recent post below.

19:09 <Nepster> SimonN: Are the physics changes (more or less) final, or do you plan further changes? I am asking, because I am wondering whether it makes sense to rerecord the solution replays.
19:09 <SimonN> I'd love to keep this stable
19:09 <Nepster> Ok, thanks.
19:10 <SimonN> I've wondered only about the blocker field in the past month, everything else seemed good. And the blocker field is now the 0.6 field


Nice job on the Oriental update, its so nice now.

Thanks!

-- Simon
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.2 experimental
Post by: RubiX on June 11, 2017, 06:55:59 PM
Overly busy with being the main installer for the company I work for.   Dont think i'll get around to checking the 39 levels for a while, but i'll keep it in mind for when ive got some spare time.
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.3 experimental
Post by: Simon on June 14, 2017, 03:19:43 PM
Lix 0.7.3 experimental.

* Same physics as 0.7.2.
* NepsterLix updated and proven 100 % solvable. Thanks!
* Replay verifier in the GUI! Merely lists unproven levels, doesn't mark browser entries.
* Reworded scroll-speed option.

Proxima, Rubix: The Lix replay browser has a new button. This verifies all replays in the current directory and all subdirectories, then lists levels that still need replays. Run it over your own replay collection, or over the most recent replay collection on github (download .zip) (https://github.com/SimonN/lemforum-replays/archive/master.zip)

Quote from: Rubix
Overly busy with being the main installer for the company I work for.   Dont think i'll get around to checking the 39 levels for a while, but i'll keep it in mind for when ive got some spare time.

No problem -- thanks for keeping it in mind. I can start covering your easier maps, too.

I've put the replay verifier in the GUI to help you work in little chunks, to keep track of what you've already covered.

-- Simon
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.4 experimental
Post by: Simon on June 14, 2017, 06:57:57 PM
Lix 0.7.4 experimental.

Download 0.7.4 for Windows (http://www.lixgame.com/dow/lix-exp.zip) -- keep separate from the stable 0.6 installation
Branch exp in lix-unstable (https://github.com/SimonN/lix-unstable)

* Changed a few pixels in the bonsai tree. Lixes don't get stuck in it anymore.
* Replay browser opens at recent replay or at recently-verified dir.
* Rubix's levels: Pleasant and Sinister are 100 % solvable. Small changes.

I've covered the first 2 out of Rubix's 5 ranks, Pleasant and Sinister. I've changed the oriental levels to make them solvable, preserving the spirit as much as possible. I removed an unnecessary exploder in Center of Attention because this level is save-all.

-- Simon
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.4 experimental
Post by: Simon on June 20, 2017, 01:32:20 AM
Lix 0.7.5 experimental.

* lemforum coverage: I've covered 15 levels. We need 37 more.
* A Completely Ridiculous Level's is 48 pixels narrower.
* Down-facing tumblers drown head-first. Purely cosmetic.

Proxima: What's our plan for coverage? I don't know how to solve every level. Who shall cover what? Editing levels is OK to improve them. Everybody can pitch in with replays -- see list of not-covered levels below.

I'd like to have 100 % coverage by July 8th end of July, to declare 0.7 stable, with its tilesets and physics. I'd leave out a few not-covered levels in a pinch, but it's certainly nicer to ship all.

Are you happy with the floater-tumbler physics? Cover Endeavor to get a feeling.

-- Simon
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.6 experimental
Post by: Simon on June 20, 2017, 05:23:01 PM
Lix 0.7.6 experimental.

Download 0.7.6 for Windows (http://www.lixgame.com/dow/lix-exp.zip) -- keep separate from the stable 0.6 installation
Branch exp in lix-unstable (https://github.com/SimonN/lix-unstable)

Physics bugfix: Duplicated brick are gratis, they don't decrease number of bricks left. This didn't impact replays; we still need 37 lemforum and 29 Rubix replays.

-- Simon
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.8 experimental
Post by: Simon on July 01, 2017, 02:56:08 PM
Lix 0.7.7 and 0.7.8 experimental.
I'll be away for a week. You can play around with the walker physics. I'm still 50:50 on what it'll be, maybe slightly pro-always-turn after Rubix's most recent post that he likes them.

Would like feedback on the batch-verify button in the replay browser. It's crude because it merely prints text; it doesn't mark replay file entries in the browser. Still helpful?

-- Simon
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.8 experimental
Post by: mobius on July 02, 2017, 09:44:50 PM
I downloaded the 0.7.8 exp build. (I don't currently have any other version on this PC)

some kind of glitch happened when I had tabbed out of Lix to another window my cursor got stuck in the top right corner of my monitor (not the Lix window, my whole screen). Only closing Lix solved the issue. It hasn't happened again-- can't say what caused it.
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.8 experimental
Post by: Simon on July 03, 2017, 03:50:13 AM
Thanks for reporting. I reposition the mouse cursor to allow infinite movement, strange that this bug hasn't surfaced so far. I haven't seen that before and couldn't repro either. Will examine the source and guess.

In a pinch, Shift+Esc kills the game without questions, losing all unsaved data.

-- Simon
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.9 experimental
Post by: Simon on July 17, 2017, 08:33:25 PM
Lix 0.7.9 and 0.7.10 experimental.
-- Simon
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.10 experimental
Post by: Simon on July 17, 2017, 09:02:18 PM
Updated to 0.7.10, Vicious/_order.X.txt mentions the new One-Lix Showdown instead of Lixes in Arms.

Let's cover all of lemforum, and as many Rubix levels as possible, until end of July August 10th. I'd love to declare Lix stable with Raymanni's tilesets then!

-- Simon
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.10 experimental
Post by: Simon on July 20, 2017, 05:36:44 PM
Lix 0.7.10 replacement executable with mouse code from April 2017. Proxima had trouble with the mouse, let's see if exe fixes that on Windows. If still bad, I'll get even older mouse code.

-- Simon
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.10 experimental
Post by: Simon on July 24, 2017, 04:14:24 PM
Strategic plan for 0.7.
-- Simon
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.10 experimental
Post by: Proxima on July 24, 2017, 07:21:15 PM
More coverage replays: Survival of the Craftiest, From the Other Side, Toccata.

The following levels currently have problems (intended solution does not work):
Dream the Impossible Dream: problem with floater/tumbler behaviour. May be fixable with a terrain change.
Metal City Mayhem: problem with builder/blocker interaction. Should certainly be fixable by changing the SI.
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.12 experimental
Post by: Simon on July 30, 2017, 11:55:27 PM
Lix 0.7.12 experimental.

(Ask me if you want this before the 0.7.13 physics changes, I'll build you this.)
-- Simon
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.13 experimental
Post by: Simon on August 01, 2017, 09:22:36 PM
Lix 0.7.13 experimental.
I don't know whether I'll keep all these physics exactly. I'll probably keep them. The changed digger frame breaks many replays. :lix-cry: The changed steel sensitivity breaks very little. Reasons for these changes (http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=3351.0).

-- Simon
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.14 experimental
Post by: Simon on August 02, 2017, 02:19:48 AM
Lix 0.7.14 experimental.
Again, please try hitting steel at various heights with the basher. Startup animation for digger is still placeholder.

-- Simon
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.14 experimental
Post by: Nepster on August 02, 2017, 03:41:35 PM
Here are some minor issues with the current experimental version 0.7.14:
1) Please use "\r\n" as a newline in both level files and replay files, regardless of the current OS. It is pretty annoying when I want to modify a replay file created by Simon on Linux and everything is displayed in a single line on my computer...
2) Some of the digger sprites still have numbers "0" to "4". Please do not forget to remove them for the new stable version.
3) Lix does not close the "log.txt" file properly. This means while Lix is running, I cannot delete the file or parts of it, but rather have to scroll to the very bottom every time I want to read the replay verified results.
4) Anyway, the replay verified results should probably not be written to "log.txt", but rather to a separate text file.
5) You mentioned at some point that the SI can still be displayed in some way. I have not yet found out, how to do this. This needs to be a lot more discoverable.
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.14 experimental
Post by: Simon on August 02, 2017, 04:05:32 PM
1) Please use "\r\n" as a newline in both level files and replay files

Unsure if I want to print \r\n, but will keep in mind and research what other programs would do.

Use a normal text editor, not Notepad with its 30-year-old bugs. >_>

Quote
2) Some of the digger sprites still have numbers "0" to "4". Please do not forget to remove them for the new stable version.

Yeah. I'd like to draw 4 unique frames of startup animation. These 4 new frames aren't looped, let's see how creative I get before the release.

Quote
3) Lix does not close the "log.txt" file properly. This means while Lix is running, I cannot delete the file or parts of it, but rather have to scroll to the very bottom every time I want to read the replay verified results.

Yeah, I should close it after any larger chunk of logs.

If you're desperate and want this before tomorrow, find a Windows version of tail and then tail -f log.txt in a shell. Or verify from the command line instead:
lix --coverage path/to/your/replay/dir

Quote
4) Anyway, the replay verified results should probably not be written to "log.txt", but rather to a separate text file.

Ideas for where? Next to where the image exporter writes images, export/nameOfDirectory.txt?

Quote
5) You mentioned at some point that the SI can still be displayed in some way. I have not yet found out, how to do this. This needs to be a lot more discoverable.

Hover with the mouse over a hatch. Good to know that this is undiscoverable. Probably mouse cursor isn't expected to interact with anything but the lixes on the map. Thanks!

-- Simon
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.14 experimental
Post by: Nepster on August 02, 2017, 04:17:14 PM
Quote
4) Anyway, the replay verified results should probably not be written to "log.txt", but rather to a separate text file.
Ideas for where? Next to where the image exporter writes images, export/nameOfDirectory.txt?
A text file in data is fine, e.g. "replaycheck.txt". Just not the "log.txt" that already contains huge amounts of other stuff that is totally uninteresting for the average player.
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.15 experimental
Post by: Simon on August 04, 2017, 12:56:17 PM
Lix 0.7.15 experimental.
-- Simon
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.16 experimental
Post by: Simon on August 09, 2017, 03:51:52 AM
Lix 0.7.16 experimental.
-- Simon
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.17 experimental
Post by: Simon on August 10, 2017, 02:56:11 AM
Lix 0.7.17 experimental.
PM to Rubix (click to show/hide)

-- Simon
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.17 experimental
Post by: RubiX on August 10, 2017, 01:48:10 PM
That is awesome news.  Work has me drained and It's been on my mind that I need to work on the levels, but I just keep putting it off, so thanks to you guys for taking the time to work through it.
As that is just a small thing left to do, i'll get onto it this weekend for those oriental levels to be overhauled.

Thanks again!

Title: Re: Lix 0.7.18 experimental
Post by: Simon on August 12, 2017, 03:08:47 AM
thanks to you guys for taking the time to work through it.
i'll get onto it this weekend for those oriental levels

You're welcome! Take your time, I'll sit in IRC often for any questions on the fly.



Lix 0.7.18 experimental.
Digger still undecided. Very likely 5/9 steel sensitivity, but unclear whether I want special-casing against razor-edge digging or not.

-- Simon
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.18 experimental
Post by: RubiX on August 13, 2017, 04:10:44 PM
Here are the 2 maps with replays.

The Clairvoyant I had to completely change the puzzle as it was a race against the clock before. 
I like the new vesion now though.   Race against the pack instead.


Flatlined was an easy fix.


Rubix
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.19 experimental
Post by: Simon on August 16, 2017, 01:03:48 AM
Lix 0.7.19 experimental.
lemforum, NepsterLix, an Rubix are proven 100 % solvable. Thanks to everybody who pulled along!

Work left:
-- Simon
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.19 experimental
Post by: RubiX on August 16, 2017, 02:01:33 AM
Lets change it to:     Come on down! (the price is right)
if its too long just :   Come on down!

Thanks
Rub
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.20 experimental
Post by: Simon on August 17, 2017, 10:12:15 PM
Lix 0.7.20 and Lix 0.7.21 are the same except that Lix 0.7.20 didn't have the overhauled 3 multiplayer maps by Rubix (see next post).

-- Simon
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.21 experimental
Post by: Simon on August 17, 2017, 11:46:36 PM
Lix 0.7.21 experimental.
All singleplayer levels are solvable. Work left:
Re simon/wood/: I've decided to cut this 11-year-old programmer art. Its size was multiples of 10 and 25 instead of powers of 2, and it looked bland. Rubix has built a few maps with it: Especially Naoh's Ark was popular in networking games. Ideally, I would make some wooden planks to replace simon/wood/ with better sizes.

-- Simon
Title: Re: Lix 0.7.22 experimental
Post by: Simon on August 20, 2017, 07:48:45 AM
Lix 0.7.22 experimental.

Download 0.7.22 for Windows (http://www.lixgame.com/dow/lix-exp.zip) -- keep separate from the stable 0.6 installation
Branch exp in lix-unstable (https://github.com/SimonN/lix-unstable/tree/exp)
Replay collection on github (https://github.com/SimonN/lemforum-replays)
All levels are solvable.

Work left: Discuss fling physics and digger anti-razor-edging again.

-- Simon