Lemmings Forums

NeoLemmix => NeoLemmix Levels => Levels for v10 or older => Topic started by: mobius on May 10, 2016, 10:05:02 pm

Title: MazuLems for NeoLemmix!
Post by: mobius on May 10, 2016, 10:05:02 pm
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/72760678/MazuLems.zip

MazuLems was a classic pack of 30 levels created by Martin Zurlinden over 10 years ago for Dos Lemmings. Since a Neolemmix conversion has not been made yet; I decided to do it. I made a few very minor edits to account for necessary details noted below. This folder comes with a walkthrough written by MZ himself. Thanks to GigaLem for making the title graphic.

notes:
level 6 has known backroutes but I don’t know how to remove them at present.
level 10 has an invisible exit.
level 15 has invisible terrain
level 16 has been omitted because it relies on glitches only present in DOS.
level 28 supposedly has at least 6 actual different solutions. I’ve only found 2 so far, I’m curious to see other peoples and how many solutions can be found.

If you have issues/questions/comments feel free to post or contact me, Martin Zurliden has been here before but he's not immensely active.
Title: Re: MazuLems for NeoLemmix!
Post by: Flopsy on May 12, 2016, 07:35:09 am
First of all thanks to mobius and Gigalem for their hard work involved in converting this pack to NeoLemmix

Secondly, for those who aren't aware. I intend on doing a video play through (with commentary as usual ;P) of this pack soon on my Youtube channel. I have finished Lemmings Plus II at the time of writing this but I'm having trouble getting the last videos uploaded at the moment (due to my stone age internet connection), but rest assured once all the LPII videos are up, this will shortly follow :thumbsup:
Title: Re: MazuLems for NeoLemmix!
Post by: namida on May 12, 2016, 04:46:14 pm
Quote
level 10 has an invisible exit.
level 15 has invisible terrain

In both of these cases, those are the entire point of the level, and should not be changed. People who really don't like this are free to skip over those levels.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also, did you include the two former levels that were removed? I remember that at least one of them was a fairly decent level. :)
Title: Re: MazuLems for NeoLemmix!
Post by: grams88 on May 12, 2016, 06:20:12 pm
Yeah Namida is right I remember there were two other levels that never made it into the actual 30 level pack. The 30 main levels were very well designed and at the time it was very hard puzzle wise. I remember playing this pack with my dad must of been the early 2000s where we must of got stuick on the china syndrome level. :) Level 15 oh that must be the cave level well I remember getting stuck on that one for a while.

I will be looking forward to seeing you play through the pack Flopsy, Have you completed the pack before as it will probably be a very tricky pack to play blindly but if anyone can do it you can Flopsy. Anyway up to you. :)
Title: Re: MazuLems for NeoLemmix!
Post by: Flopsy on May 12, 2016, 06:26:49 pm
I have seen some of the levels in this pack before grams88 but it was because I watched namida's playthrough of Revenge of the Lemmings. At least that's where I think I saw these levels.

EDIT: Hopefully this pack will be hard enough to prepare me for Lemmings Plus III (which is after that), which is going to make LPI and LPII look easy according to what I've heard
Title: Re: MazuLems for NeoLemmix!
Post by: namida on May 12, 2016, 07:04:38 pm
Quote
level 16 has been omitted because it relies on glitches only present in DOS.

I can confirm this level is possible to solve, unmodified (except for removing the steel areas and using Autosteel instead), in both V1.43n-F and the latest experimental version from Nepster. Obviously, the solution is different from the original one (though fairly similar). Replay for V1.43n-F attached; the solution is the same for the experimental version though the exact replay likely won't work due to subtle differences in timing. Considering that this solution is very similar to the original one, I don't think the slight difference is enough grounds to justify excluding it, unless Mazu himself has said it should be for this reason.

(EDIT: There are at least two other solutions that work in NL too, although they're just slight variations of this one.)

Yeah Namida is right I remember there were two other levels that never made it into the actual 30 level pack.

At least one of them was in there originally; back when I first played this pack it was Level 15. It was replaced at a later date.

EDIT:
The two removed levels can be found here: http://lemmings-db.camanis.net/levelpack/ag1zfmxlbW1pbmdzLWRichYLEglMZXZlbFBhY2sYgICAgIXYlwkM/
Looking at them now, these two were definitely both in there back when I first played this pack. "Lemming Come Back!" is the one I was specifically referring to earlier.
Title: Re: MazuLems for NeoLemmix!
Post by: mobius on May 12, 2016, 08:45:47 pm
oh no! I totally forgot about the extra levels. :XD:
I'll try to update and fix this over the weekend. I guess I'll include a magical world along with that.
Title: Re: MazuLems for NeoLemmix!
Post by: grams88 on May 12, 2016, 10:17:05 pm
That level mastermined was very hard, you have to be very good with the digging tools if I remember correctly. :devil:
Title: Re: MazuLems for NeoLemmix!
Post by: mobius on May 13, 2016, 10:34:53 pm
okay, I made a decision; after reviewing the issues, I'm not going to make any changes;

-as to the two extra levels; I agree with MZ's decision on removing them, I don't find them to be all that interesting or challenging in a satisfying way. The second especially with the advent of un-timed bombers.
-as to It's a Magical world, the alternative solutions don't employ any remarkable trick and look rather messy imo. I don't like levels relying on that sort of thing [which looks and feels backroutish].
I realize the solutions aren't that different from MZ's intended, but the whole point of the level was revolving around that glitch.
If some one finds a solution, or alters the level to find a more interesting solution I'll consider adding it.

Of course; if anybody else wants to compile a new version on their own and make these changes they're welcome to do so. Just ask me for the files.
Title: Re: MazuLems for NeoLemmix!
Post by: Flopsy on May 14, 2016, 06:20:50 am
I'm about to embark on my playthrough of this pack anyway so what I've decided to do with agreement from others in IRC.

I'll play through the pack up to Level 16 then stop and load the Lemmix level for Magical World.
After doing that level, I will return to the Neo Lemmix pack and do Levels 16-29 then.
Title: Re: MazuLems for NeoLemmix!
Post by: Flopsy on May 15, 2016, 03:22:29 am
Sorry for double post but I'm just posting to say the Mazulems playthrough is complete already taking just under 5 hours of play time.

I did drop into Lemmix to record the original Level 16 It's a Magical World during this playthrough.

Probably be split into about 10 videos and uploaded after LPII videos :thumbsup:

Hope you enjoy watching them when they get uploaded to my channel!
Title: Re: MazuLems for NeoLemmix!
Post by: grams88 on May 15, 2016, 07:46:07 pm
That was very quick Flopsy. :) Sorry for changing the subject but how have you been getting on with lemmings 2 tribes?
Title: Re: MazuLems for NeoLemmix!
Post by: Flopsy on May 15, 2016, 08:20:23 pm
Currently somewhere in the middle of the Cavelems tribe which is the 4th tribe.

Got a massive backlog of videos at the moment and a slow upload speed, I can try and upload a tribes video in the next few days.
Title: Re: MazuLems for NeoLemmix!
Post by: grams88 on May 15, 2016, 08:43:40 pm
Me thought at first that you abandoned the project. :(

No rush flopsy, I've been watching some of your highland tribe ones and noticed you made a highland level which looks very nice. I guess that was for the contest run by Namida.
Title: Re: MazuLems for NeoLemmix!
Post by: IchoTolot on May 16, 2016, 04:34:11 pm
Here are my replays :)

I would 100% make the invisible terrain from the one crystal level visible! :devil:
Title: Re: MazuLems for NeoLemmix!
Post by: Flopsy on May 16, 2016, 09:30:48 pm
I was wondering about that invisible terrain when I played through Mazulems, really caught me off guard as I genuinely did not know it was there!

I really think it should be visible as well because that level was memorable for being annoying :lem-mindblown:
Title: Re: MazuLems for NeoLemmix!
Post by: namida on May 18, 2016, 12:19:48 am
If you make it visible, the level is now extremely easy. The whole point of that level is to figure out that invisible terrain exists (which will most likely happen by accident eventually), then work out where it is (the visible terrain gives hints to this). Old levels aren't always going to comply with new guidelines, and at any rate this level is definitely a case of "ignore the guideline because it would interfere with the point of the level"; I vote no change on this one.
Title: Re: MazuLems for NeoLemmix!
Post by: Simon on May 18, 2016, 12:34:04 am
(http://asdfasdf.ethz.ch/~simon/etc/crystal-black-blue.png)

The crystal set needs a dark turquoise instead of black. That fixes all the problems at once.

An easy level is better than an annoying level.

-- Simon
Title: Re: MazuLems for NeoLemmix!
Post by: grams88 on May 19, 2016, 02:32:51 pm
Is it that level. (A leap from the lions head) or something to that nature. I really liked that level even though it did take me sometime to finish it as I knew I never had enough builders so I was thinking there must be a hidden trick so to say.

I would keep it as it is as I think it makes a very good puzzle. :)
Title: Re: MazuLems for NeoLemmix!
Post by: namida on May 22, 2016, 10:49:00 am
In regards to "It's A Magical World" - I'd especially like to point out that in Flopsy's video of MazuLems, he doesn't try anything remotely simialr to the solution that doesn't work in NeoLemmix; he instead goes for a solution that absolutely would work. Since the possible solutions seem to be more prominent anyway, and there are more than one of them - most, if not all, of which also work in Lemmix - once again I strongly suggest including this level. If nothing else, for completeness's sake.
Title: Re: MazuLems for NeoLemmix!
Post by: Wafflem on May 27, 2016, 03:44:28 pm
Got a question: with the move to colored backgrounds by graphic set (http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2709.msg58046#msg58046), how will this then impact Level 15 "The Leap from the Lions Head"? The black terrain will now be visible and thus ruin the point of the level.
Title: Re: MazuLems for NeoLemmix!
Post by: IchoTolot on May 27, 2016, 04:26:55 pm
Got a question: with the move to colored backgrounds by graphic set (http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2709.msg58046#msg58046), how will this then impact Level 15 "The Leap from the Lions Head"? The black terrain will now be visible and thus ruin the point of the level.

----> change the skillset + maybe some terrain pieces and make a different level out of it. I did it the same way with some PimoLems levels ,like the one with the destroyable steel and the result turned out to be alright.
Title: Re: MazuLems for NeoLemmix!
Post by: namida on June 08, 2016, 01:39:46 am
I've made an update which includes the previously-removed Level 16, removes most time limits, includes the removed levels 14 & 15 from early versions of MazuLems (in a seperate "Extras" rank), and touches up a few other minor details. :)

http://www.neolemmix.com/old/neolemmix/MazuLems.nxp
Title: Re: MazuLems for NeoLemmix!
Post by: mobius on November 27, 2016, 03:51:50 am
I was just watching Indiana Jones, heard the "Leap from the Lions Head" mentioned and realized the reference for the first time. :D Never occurred to me before, I don't think I've actually heard this phrase before hearing it in this pack or from the movie.

So Dodochacalo was not the first to make a level referencing an Indiana Jones movie, in particular that scene. So a level based off the last two trials have been made; A level must be made based on the first trial. A "repentant man shall pass" :D I'd call dibs but my level creation lately has been almost zero.