Lemmings Forums

NeoLemmix => NeoLemmix Levels => Topic started by: David on November 18, 2020, 05:34:06 PM

Title: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: David on November 18, 2020, 05:34:06 PM
Hello everybody,

I'm new in this awesome forum that brings the game back to life from my childhood, and I want to share with you my The Lemmings Have Grown Pack, comprising 156 levels and using the latest version of NeoLemmix (V12.10.0).

Unfortunately, I am not a computer expert, I am not very good at English (the level titles are in French :P ) and I am not familiar with your codes and habits. So, this pack does not use the original "styles" and "sounds" folders ; in fact, I added a lot of little things to the existing tilesets (the lastest updates), which is why the downloadable file contains my level pack and my styles and sound folders. :D

My pack includes 6 ranks, with increasing difficulty levels :

1) Morning walk
2) Fast walk
3) Running
4) 100 metres
5) 400 metres
6) Marathon

(sorry, I don't know how to import images ???:-[)

My pack : The Lemmings Have Grown (https://mega.nz/file/2MEwiISK#-fhEbgT9J5A-SLhAGqXvk_JPitiIsAlHuf_ytqNCIJs) (updated !)

Updated styles (December 02, 2020) : davidz_styles (https://mega.nz/file/XZNi2DqR#9Zv8Jx5rAYemOe_O-X37x_cZmJ4ovmu2DMZAYMde_rk)

At last, I would like to warmly thank all of the creators/designers who are involved in improving this game ! It's awesome ! :thumbsup:

David
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: IchoTolot on November 18, 2020, 05:59:59 PM
Welcome to the forums! :thumbsup:

The pack sounds gread and I will definitly take a look at it soon. :)

There is one thing though:

QuoteSo, this pack does not use the original "styles" and "sounds" folders ; in fact, I added a lot of little things to the existing tilesets (the lastest updates), which is why the downloadable file contains my level pack and my styles and sound folders.

What styles did you add/change? If I would be overwriting my existent styles folder it will lead to problems in the future and I won't create an extra NL installation for 1 pack.

Instead, could you please create a new "david_special" style and put all your new tiles/objects etc into it? ???

Link to the reasons why: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4192.0

Sorry to overwhelm you with this right at the beginning, but changing existing styles already lead to huge messes in the past. :(

And with a "david_special" style you got all your current and future extra stuff together under your control without any compability issues for users. ;)


Quote(sorry, I don't know how to import images ???:-[)

I, for example, upload my pictures to imgur and get share links for forums from there. :)

I wish you have a great time here. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: namida on November 18, 2020, 06:16:22 PM
To add to this: You do not need to go through and change everything manually. Chances are most of this can be automated - as this is an understandable mistake for a new user to make, I'm happy to help sort this out, I'll take a look at it later today.
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on November 18, 2020, 06:28:03 PM
Thank you for this warm welcome Ichotolot and namida ! ;)

In fact, I have two installations of NL on my computer: one with my styles, the other with the standard styles. :P

In fact, I created a few styles a while back (under the name davidz), which I updated today :

davidz_addamscrypt
davidz_addamsgallery
davidz_autumn
davidz_gold
davidz_marble_blue
davidz_marble_red
davidz_psychedelic_forest
davidz_raymancandy
davidz_special


Then I made some additions to the following styles (some tiles, sound...) :

arty_silhouette
flopsy_scrapbrain
gigalem_fortune
gigalem_ghz
gigalem_relic
gronkling_beast
gronkling_menace
l2_egyptian
l2_medieval
l2_space
namida_sky
namida_space
ohno_brick
ohno_rock
ohno_snow
orig_crystal
orig_dirt
orig_marble
orig_pillar
proxima_persia
zanzindorf_agony


Finally, in the following styles, I just added a sound (unlocked button and/or locked door):

default
dex_davinci
gigalem_lagoon
gigalem_purplemd
l3_shadow
namida_horror
orig_sega
plom_bastemp


And for the pictures, thank you, I understood ! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on November 18, 2020, 06:51:10 PM
Here are the pictures of the first levels of each rank :thumbsup: :

1) Morning walk
(https://i.imgur.com/HyvL9L4l.png)

2) Fast walk
(https://i.imgur.com/eFc1G5Xl.png)

3) Running
(https://i.imgur.com/jMPtKvGl.png)

4) 100 metres
(https://i.imgur.com/Wnl1QxUl.png)

5) 400 metres
(https://i.imgur.com/4AceRXHl.png)

6) Marathon
(https://i.imgur.com/Wpn0cgTl.png)
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: Proxima on November 18, 2020, 07:31:04 PM
Welcome, David :thumbsup:

Great to have you join us, and you clearly have a lot of artistic talent. I've only had a quick look so far, but some of your pieces are great additions to the style library. The only thing is, as Icho and namida have pointed out, it's really important that you either keep pieces in your own styles, or else cooperate with the style author in adding to their style, to avoid the situation where another designer uses some of your pieces thinking they are official, distributes a level, and then someone else can't play the level because they don't have the pieces (as well as other considerations namida went through in the post Icho linked to above).

In that spirit, I'm looking through the additions to proxima_persia. As far as I can see, these are all the new pieces:

Objects:

Button: Great idea to use the door-opening switch from Prince of Persia as a button. I haven't made a button object before so I need to double-check that everything is done in the way I would prefer, but this can definitely be added to the style officially.

Entrance 2 / Exit 2: These are much better than the lazy single-frame rips! They should just replace the old entrance/exit rather than existing as separate objects.

Spikes 3 / Spikes 4: I'm wary of these because they are invisible until activated, and general NL convention is not to do that (all traps should have secondary animations). Also, if they are to exist, then authors using the tileset would have to agree that the floor holes would only be used with the trap object -- unless the holes could become part of the object somehow? I need to think about this one.

Terrain:

Spikes: These should definitely not exist as terrain, because they already exist as a fire object (and a trap, though the trap version is distinct because the spikes start out retracted). Having some spikes be terrain (or in general, having terrain that looks like an object in the same style) is confusing to the player. I won't allow this to be part of my tileset, and I would strongly urge that you don't use this tile at all, though I can't enforce that.

Steel 2-6: You've replaced the pieces with identically named but distinct pieces that represent different stages of the gate opening or closing. I don't mind these pieces existing, but they need distinct names so they won't overwrite the old pieces.
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: namida on November 18, 2020, 07:42:39 PM
Okay, I'm working

Any new pieces you've added will be moved to a style under your name with an "ex" suffix. For example, your additions to orig_dirt will go in to "davidz_dirt_ex".

Note that a few of your changes were outright changing an object's type, or moving its trigger area / point. This is an especially big no-no - one of NeoLemmix's core principles is that levels should not deceive the player. If the player is familiar with a style and knows an object to be a certain type, they should not suddenly find that it's a different type in your pack. Most of these cases were just changing "BACKGROUND" to "NO_EFFECT" (which doesn't actually affect the player directly, though there is also no reason to do this), but I noticed that in gronkling_cyber you changed a fire object to water, and in one of zanzindorf's styles you changed the trigger point of an entrance. For this reason, these changes will be REVERTED, not copied to custom styles. Do not manually work around this - use or create a different object that is more suitable instead.

I further note you've added an "updraft_invisible" object to L2_space. For much the same reason as above, invisible objects are a HUGE "do not do this" in NeoLemmix. There can be some very specific exceptions; these would generally only be done by an experienced designer who knows what they're doing and has specifically taken steps to keep it fair. (One example is "Luck Of The Draw" from Lemmings Plus IV, which is a special graphics level where a representation of the objects makes up part of the terrain.) I don't know whether this is the case in your pack or not as I haven't looked at the levels where this is used, but if it's an outright "There's an invisible updraft and you have to guess where it is" or "Some levels are entirely covered by an invisible updraft", this is bad design. On the other hand, if it's more similar to the Luck Of The Draw example, it might be more justifiable. As I have not looked into what the situation is here, I will leave this as-is - but I urge you to get rid of it and replace it with a visible updraft unless there is very good reason for using it, and simply "I think this is cool" does not qualify.

As some historical context - at one point, NeoLemmix was far less consistent about this kind of thing, and one of the frequent complaints was that the rules would be different for every pack a player played - which got confusing quickly. Thus, it is now a big deal that it should remain consistent, and fair.

Please don't take this too harshly. I'm aware that many fan-content communities, including other Lemmings communities (in particular the Lemmini community) are not so strict around this, and that the NeoLemmix community's stance here can be a bit unusual at first. This is not us saying we don't want your content here - we absolutely do, we just want to make sure you do it the proper way, and we're happy to help you achieve that (as you'll realise from the effort I'm putting in to fixing up your pack / styles here).

EDIT: And one other change - it's customary for piece names to only contain lowercase letters, numbers or underscores; so I'll also adjust all your piece names to fit this.

I'll post again when I've got an update for this.
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on November 18, 2020, 07:53:35 PM
Thank you very much Proxima and namida for all these details. I understand and I totally agree with you ! :thumbsup: In fact, I didn't know the usage conventions when I created these levels (and "augmented" the existing styles). I just wanted to have fun ! :P

Because of these multiple additions, I hesitated to propose the levels on this forum, because I knew that it was not good! :-[  But ... if necessary, I am ready to "readjust" my levels... Thanks a lot for your help !

However, I think the "updraft_invisible" is justified in the level where I use it (Seul sur la Lune, which means Alone on the Moon !) :laugh:
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: mantha16 on November 18, 2020, 07:58:30 PM
It's great to have new content creators so welcome I look forward to playing your pack . I might wait though till you've made some of the amendments that have been recommended
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on November 18, 2020, 08:23:29 PM
Hello mantha16 ! Thank you very much ! The welcome is very warm on this forum !!! I'm glad I signed up ! :thumbsup:
Now, we have to wait for the updates of the great namida... !!! ;P
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: ericderkovits on November 18, 2020, 08:50:45 PM
Welcome to the Forums David. It's always nice to have more new members join. Also great to have more packs availiable. So once Namida and you fix the style issues, it will be interesting to see these levels. Maybe now that 12.10 is released,  more packs will be released, as it seems we need more, especially easier ones.

Anyways,  once again Welcome to the forums.
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on November 18, 2020, 08:57:49 PM
Thank you very much ericderkovits for your welcome on this site ! ;) It's a real pleasure for me to be part of this small community and to share with you, with everyone !!!




One last thing namida ! You say :

QuoteMost of these cases were just changing "BACKGROUND" to "NO_EFFECT" (which doesn't actually affect the player directly, though there is also no reason to do this)

But there is a reason : "NO_EFFECT" images may be in the foreground or background while "BACKGROUND" images are always in the background (sometimes, I like to quibble ! :evil: ;P)
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: kaywhyn on November 18, 2020, 09:07:29 PM
Welcome to the forums, David! :) This looks like a pack I would like to play, which I definitely will check out once the styles have been tidied up. I might even LP your pack, after I've done a few that I have planned. Love the Tinker Bell level in the image you posted (I'm a huge Disney fan), so I'm looking forward to trying out that level, but especially playing the entire pack once it's stable and ready. It's very awesome whenever I see more packs being released, as I just love playing packs/content.

Anyway, enjoy your time here. You've definitely seen how very friendly this community is and are willing to extend some assistance if you need or request it. Out of curiosity, what is your experience in regards to playing the official Lemmings games/Lemmings custom packs? It sounds like you definitely have played the original Lemmings. Perhaps you've tried ONML too? How about Lemmings 2: The Tribes? What port(s) did you play the official games in growing up?
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on November 18, 2020, 09:42:28 PM
Thank you kaywhyn for this very friendly welcome ! :thumbsup: I also like Disney a lot, I'm not really a fan, but I have always liked the fairytale universe a lot (well... I also love thrillers and horror films, but that's not the subject :evil: ;P!)

Lemmings Original is, along with Rayman and Adibou, THE GAME of my childhood. I played it exclusively on a computer (under Dos, at the time : 1990s). So I played all the originals (including Oh no! And xmas) but I played very little Lemmings 2 (I really didn't like it !). I also tested, with wonder, some namida packs and some packs from other creators. 8-)

As I said before, I'm not a geek (far from it), but when I discovered Lemmix, then NeoLemmix, I wanted to create my own levels myself when I had free time ! It took me a long time to figure out how this "new-old" game works.

Uh, what does "LP my pack" mean ? :lem-shocked: :lem-mindblown: ???
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: kaywhyn on November 18, 2020, 09:52:09 PM
Quote from: David on November 18, 2020, 09:42:28 PM
Lemmings Original is, along with Rayman and Adibou, THE GAME of my childhood. I played it exclusively on a computer (under Dos, at the time : 1990s). So I played all the originals (including Oh no! And xmas) but I played very little Lemmings 2 (I really didn't like it !). I also tested, with wonder, some namida packs and some packs from other creators. 8-)

I don't blame you regarding Lemmings 2. I didn't like it too much either, but at the same time it was an ok game. I still enjoyed it, though.

Quote
Uh, what does "LP my pack" mean ? :lem-shocked: :lem-mindblown: ???

LP stands for "let's play." Basically, I record myself playing and solving the pack. I enjoy these videos when others do it, because you get to see how someone solves your levels on camera in real time, as well as hear his or her thoughts aloud (what was liked/disliked about the level, was it a good/not so good level, etc). Not to mention it's always fun to compare solutions to that of other players on some of the levels. I recently started LPing level packs, and I got to say I am absolutely enjoying my LP experience thus far, so I decided that I'll be doing many more in the future. Both of my LPs seem to be getting quite a positive reception. Be on the lookout for them! I'll be starting another one soon. Not your pack right away, but a couple of smaller packs in the meantime just to ease myself into LPing much bigger packs.
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on November 18, 2020, 10:06:45 PM
"Let's play", of course ! I've seen videos like this on Youtube before, but I'm not familiar with this stuff ! It's a geek thing ! ;P But it is a very interesting practice, as much for the one who makes it as for the one who created the levels ! I am curious... ;)

In fact, I'm a fan of the first lemmings. It's like my first love ;P ! Lemmings 2 is still a very cool game, but, in my opinion, there were too many skills ! Too complicated ! :forehead:
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: namida on November 18, 2020, 11:01:27 PM
You might need to do some manual work on these levels:

"Tapis roulant" in the "100 metres" rank. If the change of the fire object to a water object was to allow use of a Swimmer, you'll need to replace it with an actual water object. (If it was purely cosmetic, this level will be fine.)
"Le phare" in the "400 metres" rank. This one used the entrance you moved the trigger point of; you will need to either redo your replay (if suitable) or move / replace the entrance.

All other levels should be fine using the attached version of the pack + styles. Please don't rely on this post as the final copy - download them, look over them yourself, make sure everything really is working as expected (at the minimum run a mass replay check to confirm all levels remain solvable), then release it.

Your styles, including updates to your existing ones, have been added to the NeoLemmix styles collection (in this corrected form), so you only need to ship the levels, not the styles/sounds, in the future. I have included a zip of all your styles (including the new ones that I have moved your additions to other styles into) here, for your own use or for anyone who wants to quickly download all of them at once.
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on November 18, 2020, 11:37:59 PM
Thank you very much namida for this great job !!!! :thumbsup: I will solve the few problems that I notice ! ;)
However, I can't open some levels ("Bonds et rebonds", "La peste verte" etc.) with NeoLemmix Editor :

Error while loading the level. Object reference not set to an instance of an object.

Do I have to recreate the failed levels or can you do it yourself ? :cute: ???
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on November 19, 2020, 12:08:21 AM
Here ! I made a few small fixes and everything seems to be working fine :
The Lemmings Have Grown (pack) (https://mega.nz/file/KEtl1K7b#XkUiFN6AFyV_51FQWgiYMDIQJKOMYv9gg04k6mbMVf0)

However, I am unable to open the following levels with NLEditor while they open correctly with NeoLemmix (I don't know why :lem-mindblown::lem-shocked::lem-mindblown::lem-shocked::lem-mindblown:):

Bonds et rebonds
La peste verte
Espace en distorsion
L'Académie des 9
Le lac
Les marches de l'invisible
L'île au trésor
Blue Lagoon
Renaissance
Stalactites
Amor
E-toiles
Le prisonnier d'Alcatraz
Cyber-machin-truc
Jeu de piste morbide
Retour au XVe siecle
Scenario de film d'horreur
Soucoupes violentes
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: Proxima on November 19, 2020, 12:20:56 AM
I'm working on integrating the new additions into the proxima_persia style (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4620.msg87277#msg87277), after which davidz_persia shouldn't need to exist separately.

* Entrance and exit have no problems.

* Button and locked exit are okay for now, but the locked exit needs to open to reveal stairs rather than the plain teal rectangle. I can do this, but I won't get to it tonight.

* I like your idea of the floor spike holes being a trap (while the "out" spikes will still be a fire object), but if we're going to make that change, the holes have to become part of the trap graphic; I'm not happy about the idea of just trusting that designers will use the trap together with the terrain holes. Again, I can do this myself but I don't know when I will have time.
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: ericderkovits on November 19, 2020, 12:48:18 AM
Hey David, It would be nice to have custom music for this pack as it would make the pack that much more enjoyable instead of just the default Amiga tunes.
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on November 19, 2020, 01:42:47 AM
In fact, the levels that I can't open on NLEditor are the levels where I have grouped parts together (using the Group button). Apparently, NLEditor does not recognize these kinds of objects. Is there a solution to fix this problem ? ??? :lem-shocked:

Proxima : Thank you for these explanations ! I totally agree with you. Regarding the traps, indeed, the holes should be part of the trap's graphics. I'm sure you can do something awesome ! ;P :thumbsup: (since I love astronomy, I like your nickname very much... and your profile picture !)

Ericderkivots : Yeah, I've thought about it too, but, I admit, I don't know what music to use ! If you have ideas for me, I am (very) interested ... ;)
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: namida on November 19, 2020, 02:08:07 AM
QuoteIn fact, the levels that I can't open on NLEditor are the levels where I have grouped parts together (using the Group button). Apparently, NLEditor does not recognize these kinds of objects. Is there a solution to fix this problem ? ???

This is a bug in the editor. I've figured out how to fix it and will upload an update shortly. EDIT: Done, here's the link: https://www.neolemmix.com/download.php?id=468
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: ericderkovits on November 19, 2020, 02:42:59 AM
RE: David
There are alot of packs that have nice custom music. Probably the packs that seems to have good custom music are and I would perhaps look at first and download from are:

1) assorted Gubbins
2) clammings
3) Seblems
4) Sublems
5) Reunion
6) United
7) Pimolems

And if there any levels you think may be nice with classical music you can download the music from

1) Renaissance Lemmings
2) Classical Lemmings
3) And Arty's Artlems

Of course there are other packs too so just look around in the neolemmix levels board and download some of the above packs music or any other packs.

Of course these are all new format packs so it's easy to put your choices into your new formats music folder. Maybe make a subfolder in the music folder and store them in the subfolder. Then use the editor to put your tune choice for each level in the music window of the editor using the subfolder.

Of course these packs are just my first choices to look at. I'm sure other people will have packs maybe to pick from.
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on November 19, 2020, 02:29:58 PM
Thank you very much namida, you're doing a wonderful job ! Everything is working fine now !!! ;) :thumbsup:

Ericderkovits, thank you for all these suggestions, but ... I don't know where to find all this music (on the forum or elsewhere ?). I already have the music from the namida packs and the renaissance pack. But I get lost in the meanders of the site... :laugh:

Otherwise, I have finished correcting a few small problems (on the levels !) but which are without consequence on the game ! :) I will soon re-propose a download of the complete pack with the musics. But... later ! :crylaugh:

EDIT : It's ok, I found all the music. Thanks ! (you have to tell me "everything" (all the explanations, all links...) so that I don't get lost :XD:)
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: kaywhyn on November 19, 2020, 03:04:45 PM
Quote from: David on November 18, 2020, 10:06:45 PM
"Let's play", of course ! I've seen videos like this on Youtube before, but I'm not familiar with this stuff ! It's a geek thing ! ;P But it is a very interesting practice, as much for the one who makes it as for the one who created the levels ! I am curious... ;)

At least for me, LPing is a lot of fun. I'm glad that I recently got into doing them ;) I will most certainly let you know when I have started playing this pack when I have started the LP and provide you a link, especially since you're the pack author. Anyone is still welcome to watch them :P

Quote
In fact, I'm a fan of the first lemmings. It's like my first love ;P ! Lemmings 2 is still a very cool game, but, in my opinion, there were too many skills ! Too complicated ! :forehead:

Same! For Lemmings 2, agree completely. Not only that, a lot of the skills were extremely redundant, since some did the same thing, just had some variation in the effect, like club basher (removes a much larger amount of terrain per stroke) vs the regular basher, or stomper (basically a much faster version of the digger since it removes slightly more terrain per jump) vs digger.

Quote from: ericderkovits on November 19, 2020, 12:48:18 AM
Hey David, It would be nice to have custom music for this pack as it would make the pack that much more enjoyable instead of just the default Amiga tunes.
Quote from: David on November 19, 2020, 02:29:58 PM
Thank you very much namida, you're doing a wonderful job ! Everything is working fine now !!! ;) :thumbsup:

Ericderkovits, thank you for all these suggestions, but ... I don't know where to find all this music (on the forum or elsewhere ?). I already have the music from the namida packs and the renaissance pack. But I get lost in the meanders of the site... :laugh:

Otherwise, I have finished correcting a few small problems (on the levels !) but which are without consequence on the game ! :) I will soon re-propose a download of the complete pack with the musics. But... later ! :crylaugh:

EDIT : It's ok, I found all the music. Thanks ! (you have to tell me "everything" (all the explanations, all links...) so that I don't get lost :XD:)

There's absolutely no requirement that a level pack needs to have custom music. Just like David said, there's far more important issues to take care of, namely, fixing levels to make sure they're working as intended in the styles after the tidying up of the styles. Music, and by extension custom music, can always come at a later time. It may affect one's playing experience, but it most certainly won't affect play-ability of the levels/pack, which is much more important in ensuring anyway.
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on November 19, 2020, 04:10:41 PM
QuoteI will most certainly let you know when I have started playing this pack when I have started the LP and provide you a link

Thanks kaywhyn, that's great ! I will be very happy ! ;P :thumbsup:

So, I fixed two/three levels that had some issues : they were too hard to solve because tiles or objects were not in the right place ! :forehead:

For the music, you're right, I'll see later... It isn't the most important for the moment ;)

Here, the download link for my updated pack : The Lemmings have grown (https://mega.nz/file/nMF2kJ4T#-AkciDrdVRNn-ROKo0rvuM9FIaIgU0EIYC_JkRUPCSI) :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on November 19, 2020, 07:03:51 PM
On the forum, I saw the word "backroute" several times. What does that mean, exactly ?
????????????
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: namida on November 19, 2020, 07:44:03 PM
If you haven't already, I suggest editing the first post of the topic to put the new link (instead of the old one), if applicable.

Quote from: David on November 19, 2020, 07:03:51 PM
On the forum, I saw the word "backroute" several times. What does that mean, exactly ?
????????????

At the most simple, a "backroute" is a solution to a level, that wasn't intended by the author. Some authors (myself included) will further only consider a solution a backroute, if the solution is much easier and/or avoids certain specific parts of the intended solution (for example, I generally won't consider a solution a backroute if the player has swapped a Builder and a Platformer around but otherwise found the intended solution).

It's really somewhat subjective, and up to level authors to decide but ultimately - if you see someone's solution to your level and think, "they shouldn't be able to do it that way!", it's a "backroute".
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on November 19, 2020, 08:04:55 PM
Thanks for the suggestion ! That's it : I updated the link on the first post ! :P

"Backroute" is a funny neologism ! I understand the meaning of this word very well, and I find it very useful when playing NeoLemmix. I have often found solutions (much) easier than those I had initially imagined when playing my own levels... or sometimes in Lemmings Original ! ;)

Thank you, namida, for this very clear explanation ! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: mantha16 on November 24, 2020, 12:24:52 AM
theres no styles in the download so I cant play can you please add your custom styles folder please
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on November 24, 2020, 01:12:08 AM
Hello mantha16,

You need to download styles updates here (namida added my styles and my extensions a few days ago) : NeoLemmix Engine (https://www.neolemmix.com/?page=neolemmix)

;P :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: mantha16 on November 24, 2020, 02:48:02 AM
if theyve been added I dont need to download it again I just use the update manager in the player thanks
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on November 24, 2020, 03:16:11 AM
Quoteif theyve been added I dont need to download it again I just use the update manager in the player thanks

Okay ! I didn't know this feature ! ??? ;P

For information, due to a small error in level 11 of the Fast walk rank, Une partie de morpion (too many lemmings !), I just updated the level pack (in the first post) : Back to the first post (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5206.0).
:thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: Gronkling on November 26, 2020, 06:52:14 PM
I just finished your level pack. There's some nice levels in there, Marathon 10 particularly stood out to me as a genuinely great level :thumbsup:. I did find however there were a lot of levels that were mostly just A LOT of building with not much else, which I didn't find very fun. The decoration was often really nice though! I'd say the difficulty of this pack is "Intermediate", I think someone who enjoyed the original lemmings style of level design might like it.

Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on November 26, 2020, 09:33:03 PM
Thank you very much Gronkling ! Your feedbacks are precious to me !
:thumbsup:

I just watched your replays (half of it !), and I noticed a lot of backroutes (over 20). In fact, as I am not a professional, there are a lot of tricks that I didn't know and that I discovered since my registration on the forum (and with PimoLems pack, which I am playing).

I'll correct all of these mistakes, give you a detailed feedback, and update my level pack soon !
:thumbsup: ;P
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: mantha16 on November 26, 2020, 09:40:36 PM
I dont know if you have already tried it David but IchoTolots introduction pack is really good for learning new tricks
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: IchoTolot on November 26, 2020, 10:19:21 PM
Quote from: David on November 26, 2020, 09:33:03 PM
I just watched your replays (half of it !), and I noticed a lot of backroutes (over 20). In fact, as I am not a professional, there are a lot of tricks that I didn't know and that I discovered since my registration on the forum (and with PimoLems pack, which I am playing).

I'll correct all of these mistakes, give you a detailed feedback, and update my level pack soon !
:thumbsup: ;P

I was planning on playing the pack this weekend, but I think it would be better to wait for your patch as then you can see if your fixes had the intended effect. :)
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on November 26, 2020, 11:14:57 PM
QuoteI dont know if you have already tried it David but IchoTolots introduction pack is really good for learning new tricks

Thanks for the information ! I'll go take a look ! :P

QuoteI was planning on playing the pack this weekend, but I think it would be better to wait for your patch as then you can see if your fixes had the intended effect. :)

As I have some free time, I will be doing all the updates before this weekend. I'm almost done ! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on November 27, 2020, 01:11:55 AM
It's done: the pack has just been updated : First post (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5206.0)
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Thank you very much Gronkling.
:thumbsup:;P

:lemming:Morning Walk :
Level 3 : there is a much easier way with less skills !
Level 6 : there is a easier solution ; and you failed to get the talisman !
Level 7 : fixed backroute : I removed the stopper skill !
Level 19: I never would have thought of doing it like this : there were easier solutions.
Level 20 : you can do the level more simply, without disarmer or floater.

:lemming::lemming:Fast walk :
Level 1 : fixed backroute : steel added.
Level 3 : fixed backroute : second trap added.
Level 5 : fixed backroute : spawn rate at 65 (instead of 40).
Level 7 : fixed backroute : basher removed.
Level 11 : the level is quite possible !!!
Level 12 : I like your solution, but it was much easier (with 5 builders, as well).
Level 14 : fixed backroute : shimmier removed !
Level 16 : fixed backroutes : neutral lemmings added.
Level 17 : it could be easier !
Level 18 : ok, it works, but we can do it with less skills (climber removed).
Level 20 : fixed backroute : a tile removed.
Level 21 : perfect ! I removed 2 extra builders !
Level 24 : ok, but no talisman !
Level 25 : exactly as I had imagined, but no talisman !

:lemming::lemming::lemming:Running :
Level 2 : fixed backroute : a builder removed.
Level 3 : fixed backroute : steel added.
Level 4 : no replay ?? I remove the talisman.
Level 6 : fixed backroute : two pickup skills added.
Level 10 : fixed backroute : steel added.
Level 12 : well done !
Level 14 : fixed backroute : owa right added.
Level 15 : well done, but you did not earn the talisman !
Level 17 : fixed backroute : owa right added.
Level 18 : fixed backroute.
Level 19 : fixed backroute : glider removed.
Level 21 : fixed backroute.
Level 23 : fixed backroute
Level 25 : fixed backroute : 51 lemmings must be saved (not 50).
Level 26 : fixed backroute : a pickup skill added.

:lemming::lemming::lemming::lemming:100 metres :
Level 6 : fixed backroute : trap added.
Level 11 : and the talisman ?
Level 15 : fixed backroute : 1 min 30 (instead of  2 min).
Level 20 : fixed backroutes : one basher removed and one digger added.
Level 21 : fixed backroutes : tiles added, bombers removed.
Level 22 : fixed backroutes : tiles added, a walker removed.
Level 25 : fixed backroute : too simple without the talisman (this level must now be completed in 1 min) !
Level 26 : fixed backroute : arrows were in the wrong direction !!!

:lemming::lemming::lemming::lemming::lemming:400 metres :
Level 2 : exactly as I had imagined. But from now on, all the lemmings will have to be saved (talisman removed).
Level 3 : without using the climber, well done. But I will also remove the talisman : 5 minutes maximum.
Level 5 : good, but we can do it using 13 builders, maybe less : I'm going to reduce the number of builders.
Level 8 : fixed backroute.
Level 10 : fixed backroute : a glider removed.
Level 11 : nice solution. I'll take a walker off.
Level 12 : fixed backroute : steel added.
Level 17 : fixed backroute : one fencer removed, one basher added.
Level 19 : fixed backroute : steel added.
Level 20 and 25 : no replay ??? Levels are possible !
Level 26 : fixed backroute !

:lemming::lemming::lemming::lemming::lemming::lemming:Marathon :
Level 2 : fixed backroute !
Level 3 : well done ! Talisman removed.
Level 5, 6, 14 and 16 : no replay ??? Don't you like zombies ?
Level 11 : fixed backroutes : 3 bashers only.
Level 12 : fixed backroute : steel added.
Level 15 : fixed backroute.
Level 18 : fixed backroute.
Level 20 : fixed backroute : fewer builders and fewer bashers.
Level 22 : fixed backroutes : talisman removed and pickup skill added.
Level 23 : well done ! But the talisman ?
Level 25 : well done ! But your solution is very complicated !

As for the other levels, you took the paths I had imagined.
Thanks again ! Bye !
:thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: Gronkling on November 27, 2020, 01:55:05 AM
Some of the replays didnt get saved because I manually save replays and forgot to do it a few times. I don't really tend to pay attention to talismans much so I think I missed a few. Also on a few levels I did a complicated solution for fun.
...I did skip a couple of the zombie levels because I find them really annoying personally, thats just my opinion though. :P
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on November 27, 2020, 03:40:53 AM
Gronkling : ok, no problem ! :P
For the levels with zombies, I understand your opinion ! I feel the same ! ;P

I just did a last update (see first post) in which I deleted most of the talismans ! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: Pieuw on November 27, 2020, 05:13:09 PM
I gave it a try but I quickly gave up because of the tribes skills and the zombies. What can I say, I'm a boring classic guy and I like my Lemmings the classic way. :crylaugh:

The few levels I played were neatly made and looked great though! It's great that new people keep creating level packs :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on November 27, 2020, 05:56:15 PM
Thanks Pieuw ! ;) When you say "tribes skills", do you mean "new skills" ?
You are old fashioned, it's a shame ! :D

Then, I counted, only 12 levels are with one (or more) zombies. It's not a lot ! :eyeroll:

Otherwise, I admire your work in PimoLems, you are very talented : levels are very well arranged, very well thought out. I just finished Stormy rank, having passed all levels ! Some of the Stormy rank gave me a hard time, in particular Stormy 4 (Rule of Three), Stormy 10 (Erbalunga), Stormy 12 (High Jump) and Stormy 20 (Let Them Eat Cake). On the other hand, I found Stormy 9 (A Matter of Pragmatism) particularly easy (I succeeded on the first try !), and Stormy 14 (Lemesis), Stormy 17 (Leavin 'on the Edge) and Stormy 19 (Tree-Athlon) levels seemed pretty easy to me. :P

In Windy rank, only Windy 11 (From Pillar to Post) seemed really difficult to me too : it took me a long time to find the solution ! :o

Loved most of the levels, it takes a lot of pragmatism to solve them : Windy 19 (Mizmaze) and Stormy 20 (Let Them Eat Cake) are my favorite. :thumbsup:

I also started, in parallel, Pickaxe and One ranks, very nice, but Temple Ruins (One 5) seemed to me disconcertingly easy !! ???

For now, I am stuck on the first level of Hurricane, very difficult ! :lem-mindblown: ???
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: Swerdis on November 27, 2020, 06:08:53 PM
You probably found the same backroute like I did in "Temple Ruins"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4z73pNL_QA

I'm very sure, Icho will fix this and the many other backroutes :-)

Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on November 27, 2020, 06:24:52 PM
Hello Swerdis : that's right ! I thought all the backroutes had been fixed ! :lem-shocked:
:thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: Swerdis on November 27, 2020, 06:28:10 PM
No. Those I discovered have not been fixed so far - Icho wants to do this when I completed the pack ;)
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on November 27, 2020, 06:45:47 PM
Okay ! Besides, I also found a very easy path in Stormy 8 (Broad Pit), using only two builders. I think it's a backroute ! :lem-shocked:
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: Swerdis on November 27, 2020, 06:57:38 PM
When you have remaining skills in the end then it's actually always a backroute. Most level-creators don't provide red-herring-skills - since they often open backroutes. I backrouted this level (Broad Pit) too  - but I had only a basher and a floater left. Icho has youtube-videos of every level with the intended solution - so you can compare.
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: ericderkovits on November 27, 2020, 07:04:14 PM
also Pieuw himself has his solutions too on Youtube minus the extra and special ranks, although there in Lemmini. Also I have converted Pimolems to Superlemmini.


NOTE: Though we should post anything for Pimolems in the Pimolems topic, since this is for David's new pack.
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on November 27, 2020, 07:07:57 PM
Swerdis : Alright, I understand ! So, I found a lot of backroutes ! :P

Here, my solution of Stormy 8 (Broad Pit) (https://mega.nz/file/XVEzEYKK#w6G0Vd-FPP-PB07ufDdyrnMeaa_Y7U_n4tQ1iVSZYnM)
:P

By the way, how do you attach a file ? ????????????

Quotealso Pieuw himself has his solutions too on Youtube minus the extra and special ranks, although there in Lemmini. Also I have converted Pimolems to Superlemmini.

Great ! I didn't know ! Thank you !! :thumbsup:

QuoteNOTE: Though we should post anything for Pimolems in the Pimolems topic, since this is for David's new pack.

It's true, sorry ! It's my fault ! :-[
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: Swerdis on November 27, 2020, 07:15:54 PM
But sometimes these solutions don't work anymore because you (and I) played an already patched version. A good example ist Hurricane 19 which originally was created with 3 miners. But you will have to solve it with only 2.

Yeah, we should! My fault, too :-(
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: ericderkovits on November 27, 2020, 07:19:13 PM
RE: David

To attach something just use the attachments below the post and where it says choose file, just open your file. You can have up to 6 files(max 32.7MB). If there are more than 6 files(ie replays)
just use a compression method like winzip or winrar(this way you can have more than 6). Still must be less than the 32.7MB. Many times people use Dropbox or other programs for people to use
when this goes over. Especially for music files since they tend to use up a lot of space.
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on November 27, 2020, 07:21:34 PM
As I understand it, only a few levels have been updated ! I see it's important for multiple players to play a level pack to spot and fix all the backroutes. It's very interesting ! ;)
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on November 27, 2020, 07:25:59 PM
ericderkovits : I hadn't even paid attention : I must be blind !
:lem-mindblown: :D

Otherwise, I use MEGA (for packs, levels...) and Imgur (for pictures) !

Thank you very much !
:thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: kaywhyn on November 27, 2020, 07:32:34 PM
Quote from: Swerdis on November 27, 2020, 06:57:38 PM
When you have remaining skills in the end then it's actually always a backroute. Most level-creators don't provide red-herring-skills - since they often open backroutes. I backrouted this level (Broad Pit) too  - but I had only a basher and a floater left. Icho has youtube-videos of every level with the intended solution - so you can compare.

Not necessarily. You can have some skills leftover and while it might not be exactly intended, it'll still be deemed acceptable.

Quote from: ericderkovits on November 27, 2020, 07:04:14 PM
also Pieuw himself has his solutions too on Youtube minus the extra and special ranks, although there in Lemmini. Also I have converted Pimolems to Superlemmini.

Not really relevant, since a lot of the levels have been patched out and so many of Pieuw's original solutions don't hold up anymore. Especially since Lemmini is very different from NL and the NL version is a conversion where the original glitch levels don't work.

As for posting in the relevant topics, should sound familiar to you, since I told you the same thing when you first started out. Admins, feel free to move the relevant posts to the Pimolems topic.
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: Pieuw on November 27, 2020, 08:03:37 PM
Quote from: David on November 27, 2020, 05:56:15 PM
Thanks Pieuw ! ;) When you say "tribes skills", do you mean "new skills" ?
You are old fashioned, it's a shame ! :D
Yes, I mean skills that were not in the original game. I don't really know why but I've never been interested in Lemmings 2 and its gameplay additions. :XD: I like Lemmings the way it is: simple, basic, yet infinite in its possibilities. :laugh:

About Pimolems, I'll answer in the relevant topic :)
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on November 27, 2020, 09:10:27 PM
QuoteYes, I mean skills that were not in the original game. I don't really know why but I've never been interested in Lemmings 2 and its gameplay additions. :XD: I like Lemmings the way it is: simple, basic, yet infinite in its possibilities. :laugh:

Okay ! I can understand ! Either way, you're very good at creating simple, basic levels ! Bravo ! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: IchoTolot on November 28, 2020, 07:51:04 PM
I played the pack a bit today and here is some feedback. Warning I will focus on stuff that can be improved here as these were the things that interrupted my enjoyment of playing the pack ;):

- First of all: The levels look really nice! :thumbsup:

-  I solved the first rank and parts of the last rank (1-8 + the last 2 levels) to get a feeling how this pack is difficulty wise. I would rank it simply as "Medium".

- The biggest thing to improve the pack would be: Throw out the timers! Out of the levels I solved the only nessesary timer I have seem would be: 1 11. That's it.
  So many times I had to rewind to: A) Increase the RR earlier while changing nothing else. B) Slightly change some assignments to save a couple extra seconds while still execution the same solution again.
  This just makes the pack a lot more annoying. Throw them out, put away the nostalgia that every level needs a timer. 95% of them don't need it and they make a otherwise good level way worse. Prime example: 1 05 where i had to rewind multiple times to turn up the RR again after I needed to change some assignments. Otherwise it was a good level!:)

- Some of the objects/tiles are very misleading. As they could be your personal additions I include the cases here in my feedback. If they are not your additions think about maybe replacing them:
  A) In 1 14 is fish is solid terrain. In 1 18 the fish is now a background object or even a trap. If it's your addition: Choose 1 for it and make it consistent!
  B) 1 15 the giant invisible updraft. I know what you want to emulate but because of the updraft I can't seee the trap's or exit's trigger area resulting in more frustraition. Also in 1 23 we also have a space level, but this time no low gravity.
  C) The invisible exit in 1 08 and 1 18! An exit should be visible from the start! Please, choose a locked exit that is visible.
  D) No one can see if this is a splat pad or an anti-splat pad. Please use the standard red one for clarity purpose.
  E) 6 08 - let's say I needed a while figure out what is happening here and how those custom invisible updrafts work. Simply use and extend a standard one to cover the rooms as this is really confusing.
 
--> General rule for tileset additions: Clarity over style! Nothing should be invisible or misleading.

- 1 20: Hidden trap! :devil: Make it visible!

- The difficulty is a bit over the place. 1 01 - 1 06 is way harder than 1 14, 1 16, 1 22 for example. The last level 6 22 I would not consider more difficult than 1 18 as well.

- I noticed quite the inflation with builders later on. Try to turn down the builderfests a bit in the future. ;)

My favorites so far were: 1 05 (without the timer), 6 04 and 6 05 :thumbsup::thumbsup:

I attached my replays so far and will continue playing soon. :)
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on November 28, 2020, 10:33:13 PM
Thank you very much IchoTolot for these comments and advices. I will soon be updating all my levels (without invisible traps, without time limits... and taking into account the adjustments you offer me) ! :thumbsup:

For level 1 05, time adds to the difficulty, I find. Otherwise, I just removed the time on most of my levels (no useful, that's true !), however, I left it on some of them. ;)

For the fish terrain, it only appear in this level. In all the others levels it is trap or decoration (fountain). But I just solved the problem ! Thank you !

I hadn't paid attention to the fact that the updraft masked the trigger zones ! But of course, I agree ! I just removed the giant invisible updraft and I replaced it with a updraft visible only on the areas necessary for the resolution of the level (same for Apesanteur level, in Marathon rank)

Invisible exits : I knew this would be a problem ! I will redo the animations so that only the outlines of the output are visible (I think), which will make it easy to locate them. :P

Concerning the builders, there are particular (fanciful) levels where they are essential, in particular in the rank 100 metres. It must be said that they were used a lot in Original Lemmings.

The progression in difficulty is quite random. In fact, there is little difference between the beginning (rank 1) and the end (rank 6). The difficulty evolves between medium - and medium + ;P, with occasional some rather very easy ! However, I am complicating the easy levels, so that the difficulty is medium everywhere (I prefer that way !).

Your replays : I don't have much to say, except thank you and bravo ! ;P

Morning walk :
Level 2 : nice, but we can do a lot easier !
Level 7 : well done : I hadn't thought of doing it like this.

Marathon :
Level 5: My solution is very different from yours, but yours might be a little more complicated, just a little ! ;) Good !

Bye !
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: WillLem on November 29, 2020, 06:48:00 AM
Had a quick glance at some of these levels and really like the designs! I've added this to my LP List (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4899) :lemcat:
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on November 29, 2020, 12:47:20 PM
Thank you WillLem, it's nice ! I have a fairly developed artistic sense, it's true ! ;P

Right now, I'm updating my levels on Gronkling's and IchoTolot's advices, and I'm making the levels "more complex", because some levels are too easy and don't require a lot of thought : I make them more "in the spirit of NeoLemmix."

I will update this pack shortly ! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: WillLem on November 29, 2020, 09:38:07 PM
Quote from: David on November 29, 2020, 12:47:20 PM
I'm making the levels "more complex", because some levels are too easy and don't require a lot of thought

Don't make them too complex. The forums need more easy levels! ;P
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on November 30, 2020, 08:42:37 PM
QuoteDon't make them too complex. The forums need more easy levels! ;P

Don't worry WillLem : it's just a little harder ! :P
Besides, is it true what you say ? There are few easy packs ? ???

I just updated my level pack following Gronkling and IchoTolot's advices (thank you ! ;)), including removing invisible locked exit, removing invisible updraft and removing timer (in 90% of levels). Finally, I made changes in a lot of levels to make them more engaging and more challenging. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Updated the following styles for download :

davidz_addamscrypt : invisible locked exit and teleporter-stopper/receiver-stopper removed.
davidz_gold : invisibile locked exit removed.
davidz_marble_ex : invisibile locked exit removed.
davidz_marble_blue : splat transformed into anti-splat (to avoid confusion !).
davidz_space_ex : updraft invisible removed.

Download updated styles and level pack in the First post (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5206.0) ! :thumbsup:

Bye ! ;P
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: kaywhyn on November 30, 2020, 09:41:35 PM
There's just been a lot of hard content compared to easy stuff, especially in New Formats. Pretty good way to tell is you can look through the Neolemmix levels board and look at the packs that have a difficulty tag attached to them. You'll see there's little that are labeled easy/medium. Or, simply play through more packs. Generally, it's difficult for authors to judge the difficulty of their own packs, and this is where feedback on the levels for the author is helpful. Also, keep in mind the discussion that difficulty is subjective. What people found difficult might be easy for others or vice versa. Definitely the way to get better at level solving is to play more packs.
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on November 30, 2020, 09:59:52 PM
Thank you kaywhyn ! You are right ! ;)

There is more challenge in creating difficult levels. It's naturally more exciting, I think ! In fact, I imagine passionate gamers are talented, seasoned, and enjoy challenging (very) difficult levels !... :thumbsup:

However, easy levels are great for learning ! It's necessary for newcomers ;P But, are there many newcomers who don't know anything and want to "learn NeoLemmix" ? I don't know...
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: kaywhyn on November 30, 2020, 10:09:32 PM
Generally, almost everyone here has some experience with the official games, and it's usually recommended to play through them first before taking on custom level packs, since these tend to be far more difficult. There are some that have very little to none, but those are far and few in between. As for learning NL, there's always the NL manual and Icho's NL Tutorial Pack. Of course, it's not mandatory to play the official games first before playing custom packs. In the same way it's not necessary to play the NL Tutorial Pack before playing custom level packs for NL, but I still highly recommend that pack to anyone, whether a newcomer or expert. I'm a good example here, where upon switching to playing on NL last year I immediately took on the hardest pack there is in existence, United. I didn't familiarize myself with the controls by playing other packs on NL before this. Prior to playing United, I've been a heavy player on Lemmini/Superlemmini for 4-5 years, and I have played through Dovelems, Pimolems, Lemmings Reunion, and Sub Lems. Also, I'm a player who is willing to take on packs of any difficulty, so as you can see the extreme difficulty label of United didn't scare me from playing it. I seem to have a very high level of patience compared to most when it comes to playing/solving, as I'm willing to sit through levels and struggle with them until I get them solved on my own.

As I did mention before, this pack of yours is eventually on my to-play list. Just as soon as I get all of my planned LPs done :P
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on November 30, 2020, 10:23:51 PM
Thank you for these explanations. For my part, I knew Lemmings Original and Christmas as a child, then I discovered Lemmix (many years after its release), NeoLemmix then. I had two problems : I did not know the existence of this forum and I had a busy life (so, little time to play). ;P

I told myself that by registering on this forum, I would learn a lot of things. And I confirm ! So, I've downloaded a lot of packs (the only ones I've played are namida's, but just a few, "sporadically"). I am currently with PimoLems, I advance at my own pace, and like you, I don't like giving up or looking at solutions. However... I'm not going to try Lemmings United yet. :thumbsup:

Besides, for updating styles : will namida take care of it ? ???
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: grams88 on December 02, 2020, 12:34:40 AM
Hey, I like the running rank names, that's actually quite cool. :thumbsup: I notice a lot of people are into their running this weather. I used to be actually quite good the running in the past but as of now not as good as I used to be. I was hoping to maybe do a half marathon in the future although that will be hard.

I think making levels difficult makes a challenge at least. I might maybe get round to playing your pack one time. Sorry I've not been playing packs lately. 

I'm sure your pack will be quite good. Getting into the level pack making is fun but sometimes can be tricky thinking of the ideas.

Good luck David :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on December 02, 2020, 01:19:27 AM
Hello grams88 ! Nice picture !!! I love Columbo, I watched all the episodes a few years ago ... :P

I suddenly feel... guilty ! :o

Thank you for your nice message ! There was a time when I really liked running (not running after time, nor after murderers, but running... with my legs ;P). So, the pack update has just been completed, and the difficulty of some levels has been increased. There are undoubtedly backroutes that I will have to correct. But I need more... testers.

I really like "creating" and I always have a lot of ideas, in a lot of sectors. However, creating level packs isn't easy and I will be very happy if you play this one !!! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Bye !
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: IchoTolot on December 08, 2020, 07:14:22 PM
I have resolved the levels I've solved so far, but during a mass replay check I noticed that a few levels of the pack share the same level ID --> Replay gets matched to the wrong level.

So far these are the contenders for that:

Fast walk 11:  Marathon_03.nxrp   (5858 frames)
100 metres 8:  Marathon_06.nxrp   (11212 frames)
Morning walk 13:  Marathon_26.nxrp   (5563 frames)

So, for example, Fast walk 11 and  Marathon_03 have the same level ID and the checker tries to solve Fast walk 11 with my replay for Marathon_03.

You can simply change the ID of a level in the editor so that each ID is unique again. This way each replay can correctly be connected to its level. :)

I also attached my Mass Replay check. Will soon continue to play on. :)

Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on December 08, 2020, 09:39:47 PM
IchoTolot, thanks for the replays !!! ;P You have successfully completed the levels as I originally planned. Well done ! A small clarification however, Morning walk 10 can be achieved with just 3 skills. ;)

Updates :

Similar levels (built with the same tiles) had, for the most part, the same ID. I fixed the problem. Thank you !

I also fixed small issues in a few overly easy levels (and added/removed awkward design elements) :

Morning 1 : Spawn rate increased.
Morning 12 : I recreate this level :laugh:
Morning 15 : Shifting of pickup skills.
Morning 20 : Background changed and disturbing design elements removed (without consequence on the level's achievement).
Morning 24 : Some design elements removed (without consequence on the level's achievement).

Fast walk 17 : Spawn rate increased and one skill changed.

Running 7 : Number of lemmings increased.
Running 11 : Some skills removed.
Running 18 : Backroute (steel added).

100 meters 1 : Some design elements removed (without consequence on the level's achievement).

400 meters 8 : Backroute (steels added).

Bye ! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: IchoTolot on December 29, 2020, 06:38:56 PM
More replays! ;)

I resolved morning walk and completed marathon. :)

What came to my eyes:

6 11: I really don't see the need for the timer here.
6 19: Why does it need to be ~20 builders to get up there ??? Most of the level is just building a giant bridge. You can cull most builders with some tweaks. It should need at most 5 builders to get up to the action.
6 20: Do not hide buttons, pick-up skills and traps behind terrain, period. :devil:


From the new levels my favorite was 6 10. :thumbsup:

Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on December 31, 2020, 09:47:24 AM
Hi IchoTolot, thank you very much for this feedback !
:thumbsup:

Marathon 11 : Timer deleted ! You're right !
Marathon 12 : (backroute) I change a tile. More lemmings to save. Fewer platformers.
Marathon 18 : (little backroute) Steels added.
Marathon 19 : I understand but I like builders ! :P However, I added a second unlock button and some skills.
Marathon 20 : (little backroute) Steel added.
But... ;) I like the hidden traps since this level is a puzzle to solve. The symbols used in this strange level are Egyptian numbers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_numerals), and only blocks with a symbol between 20 and 100 (as indicated by the reliquary) contain a key (unlock button) and the blocks on which are drawn the other symbols (animals and objects) must be destroyed in the order indicated by the animations (waves and beetle). The others contain traps... normal, because it's the curse !!! :evil::devil::scared: I assure you, this is the only level of this kind in my pack ! :laugh:
Marathon 22 : (little backroute) On cloner deleted and two climbers added.

Bye !
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: IchoTolot on January 02, 2021, 12:50:08 AM
More replays. :)

Resolved rank 1+6 and solved rank 2

Comments

2 04: Another unnessesary timer.

2 20: I would make the gaps smaller so that the builder ammount can be brought down. As you might suspect, I am not the biggest fan of builderfests. ;)

My favorites were 2 14 and 2 21. :thumbsup:

6 20:
Nobody knows egyptian numbers and will look those up. You've got 2 most likely scenarios now when people come to this level:

- People will simply play the level in clear physics mode to see the button+trap trigger areas (as I did) and be annoyed with it and in this mode all your custom graphics aren't even shown. Your puzzle is therefore nullified and your custom graphics remain without an effect.
- People will simply skip it as they don't want to deal with hidden stuff.

I would still advice to make the buttons + pick-ups visible, keep the custom graphics around them so that they can still be seen and the level will still play out the same, just without hiding stuff away from the player to mess with them. ;)
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on January 03, 2021, 11:12:02 AM
Thank you IchoTolot for this feedback ! :thumbsup:

2 02 : Slightly more complicated alternative solution.
2 04 : Well done ! This is one of the two solutions intended. I forgot to remove the timer. :D It's done. Thank you !
2 06 : Backroute : I hadn't thought of this funny solution ! Steels added (I have also added the same steels in the level 6 16).
2 07 : Well done ! But little backroute : this alternative solution is no longer valid : I removed the hill and two plateformers.
2 09 : Backroute : now, spawn rate at 99 and reduction of the "bar thin" on which the exit is located.

2 12 : Well done ! Nice alternative solution.
2 14 : Well done ! Very close to the intended solution.
2 16 : Too funny ! ??? :lem-shocked: But it's a backroute : basher and preplaced lemmings removed.
2 18 : Well done ! This is the solution I had imagined.
2 20 : Ok ! Simplified level. Fewer builders. ;P
2 21 : Well done ! Close to the intended solution.
2 25 : Little backroute ! Now, 19 lemmings must be saved (instead of 18).

6 12 : Backroute : 46 lemmings must be saved (instead of 43), I changed a steel and I removed some skills.
6 20 : From now on, the five unlock buttons are clearly visible, but I wanted to keep the two pickup skills "hidden", because the animated objects (on either side of the closed exit) indicate to dig the block "waves" first and the "scarab" block second. :evil: :smug: :crylaugh:
6 22 : Well done ! :thumbsup:

Bye !
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: IchoTolot on January 03, 2021, 05:09:42 PM
Even more replays. :)

Resolved rank 2+6 and solved rank 5.

Comments

- It seems like 100 metres 17 and  Marathon_14 still got the same level ID.

- 6 20 is fine now! :thumbsup: Thanks for the alteration!
- 2 06 + 6 16 The fix idea is fine, but I would move the steel more inwards about 5 pixels on each side. Right now it isn't really recognisable as steel as it's grey on grey.

- 5 12 (+ 5 09)  It is a really bad idea to take already existing and well known objects and suddenly give them another function! You can just use your custom Ankh button instead of an edited decoration object. The rule is applicable in general: Do not simply take already existing objects and give them another function that then holds true just in one pack. Otherwise it will be chaos!

- 5 17 + 5 19 + 5 23 You know what I'm about to say here. ;)   Shorten the gaps, reduce the castle by 1 or 2 floors to reduce the builderfests.

My favorites of the rank were: 5 04, 5 11, 5 20 and 5 23! :thumbsup::thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on January 04, 2021, 10:05:50 AM
QuoteIt seems like 100 metres 17 and  Marathon_14 still got the same level ID.
Problem solved. Thank you !

2 06 + 6 16 : Steels are more visible now ! Thank you !
2 07 : Little backroute : one trap added.

5 02 : Well done ! Close to the intended solution. :thumbsup:
5 04 : Well done ! This is one of the two solutions intended.
5 05 : Little backroute : five builders removed !
5 06 : Beautiful alternative solution ! My solution doesn't use the digger ! ;P
5 09 : I understand the trouble, because the button is normally a trap, but I don't think it's a problem if this principe is used sparingly ! Moreover, the trap dragon has its mouth open so the button dragon has its mouth closed. :laugh:
5 12 : Backroute : I added some steels and, ok, I changed the unlock button (Ankh is better !). ;)
5 14 : Little backroute : hole added.
5 17 : There are few levels in my pack using a lot of builders. I understand that bothers you, but I like sometimes playing kind of levels ! :P However, I made some changes in the levels 5 19 and 5 23.
5 18 : Little backroute : stopper and bomber removed.
5 19 : Tower closer to the castle, one tree added and nine fewer builders. :-[ :P
5 20 : Well done ! But this alternative solution doesn't satisfy me : one steel added.
5 23 : The two islands have been brought closer to reduce the number of builders to use. ;P
5 24 : Little backroute : a third unlock button added.

6 12 : Backroute : one steel added.

Thank you IchoTolot ! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: IchoTolot on January 04, 2021, 11:29:14 PM
More replays. :)

Resolved rank 2+5+6 and solved rank 4.

Comments

I appreciate the changes to lower the builder ammount and the one in 5 12! :thumbsup:

4 02 And here I need to nag again about the unnessesarily wide gaps you need to build across. ;)

4 05 was the hardest level of the pack for me so far. The solution I found is quite precise, but still nice. :) It's also one of my favorites :thumbsup: even though if this is intended, a tiny bit more leeway for reaching the upper neutral chamber could be given. ;)

5 15 Remove the timer or reduce the lem count. :devil: It made me ONLY turn up the RR earlier.

4 22 If my solution is not a backroute, I don't the the reason for the timer. I catched the reason in 4 18 though. ;)

4 23 You know exactly what I'm gonna say here. ;P  50 builders is too much when most of the time you just mindlessly build upwards.

More favorites were: 4 06, 4 12, 4 16 and 4 19  :thumbsup::thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: IchoTolot on January 05, 2021, 02:49:28 PM
And here is the rest of the pack - or rather the missing rank 3 ;P

Comments

- Morning Walk 25 and Running 4 still have the same level ID. ;)

- 3 05 The timer makes no sense here.

- 3 06 Let's say the timer doesn't make the level better here. Otherwise it's an even simpler bomber turorial though. I would change the level to something better/different here to be honest.

- 3 22 The exit should be made visible here.

My favorites were: 3 03, 3 13 and especially 3 15! :thumbsup::thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on January 06, 2021, 02:43:50 PM
QuoteMorning Walk 25 and Running 4 still have the same level ID. ;)
Problem solved. ;)

2 07 : Beautiful alternative solution, fairly close to the intended solution !

3 02 : Backroute : the steel has been moved. One less builder.
3 05 : Time deleted, it was a mistake. Thank you ! :P
3 06 : You are right. I recreate the level !
3 08 : I removed some skills.
3 10 : Little backroute : one block that I reduced.
3 11 : Little backroute : bombers removed.
3 13 : Well done ! But we can use the first basher differently !
3 14 : Backroute : fewer skills, one "owa" and one zombie added.
3 15 : Well done ! Very close to the indended solution !
3 16 : :lem-shocked: Backroute : a precipice added.
3 17 : Little backroute : one pickup skill added.
3 18 : Little backroute : ok ! I just removed one walker and added thirty more lemmings.
3 22 : I like the invisible exit, sometimes. I don't find it embarrassing in this level ! :-[
3 23 : Little backroute : one steel removed.
3 25 : Little backroute : less snow...

4 01 : :lem-mindblown: Backroute : digger removed.
4 02 : I understand :-\ but, I find this level nice ! ;P
4 04 : Well done !
4 05 : Well done ! But the intended solution is a little easier than yours !
Spoiler
After "bashing" the wall, isolate all of the lemmings (except two) on the side where the entrance is... The rest should be easier !
4 15 : Backroute : in fact, the time limit is useful in this level to avoid backroutes, but unfortunately, I left too much time : 1'15 now ! :P
4 17 : Backroute : a precipice added.
4 21 : Little backroute : I reduced the number of lemmings and removed the entrance.
4 22 : Backroute : two traps added, time removed and one basher replaced by one digger.
4 23 : Level recreated ! ;P
4 24 : Little backroute : steels added.
4 25 : Little backroute : one unclok button added.

5 05 : :lem-shocked: Backroute : steels added.
5 12 : :lem-mindblown: Backroute : one steel added !
5 14 : Little backroute : pickup skill added.
5 18 : Backroute : one block added.

6 12 : :-[ Little backroute : I move one lollipop !

Thank you very much, IchoTolot, for all your replays !!! I really really really appreciate your advice !!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: IchoTolot on January 06, 2021, 05:53:50 PM
I resolved the levels! :)

The recreated levels are much better now! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

I still think there are a couple of backroutes left though.

Quote4 15 : Backroute : in fact, the time limit is useful in this level to avoid backroutes, but unfortunately, I left too much time : 1'15 now !

I don't think the timer is the optimal way to block the backroute though --> see replay.   Maybe a pick-up skill is the more efficient way.
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on January 07, 2021, 12:24:34 PM
3 02 : Little backroute : time limit added. :-[ :P
3 10 : Little backroute : stoppers removed, four traps and disarmer added.
3 14 : Little backroute : arrows added.
3 16 : Backroute : some changes...
3 18 : Little backroute : less lemmings, steels added...

4 15 : Little backroute : pickup skill added. Thanks ! ;P
4 17 : Nice solution ! Well done !
4 22 : I realy like your solution ! :thumbsup:
4 24 : Little backroute : steel added.

5 05 : Little backroute : steels added.
5 18 : Backroute : steels added.

Thank you ! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: IchoTolot on January 07, 2021, 05:33:35 PM
And here is the resolve. ;)
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on January 07, 2021, 06:56:39 PM
3 10 : Valid alternative solution. Well done ! But, it's possible to solve this level without using climbers ! ;P
4 24 : Little backroute : one steel added.
5 18 : Valid alternative solution. Well done ! :P

For all other levels, you have made the intended solution, or a solution very close to the intended solution. ;P

Right ! You are very good at solving levels ! I know, my pack wasn't very difficult... :laugh:
Anyway, thanks for those replays ! All this made me progress and learn more (new) tricks... :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: IchoTolot on January 07, 2021, 09:19:49 PM
Resolved the level. :)

Your pack has definitly some bite! I would classify it as Medium or Medium-Hard.
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on January 07, 2021, 09:53:40 PM
Perfect !

Medium / Medium-Hard : that's what I thought !!! ;P

I have attached my solution for level 4 05, the level you found so difficult !
That's right, it's not easy ! And the access to the upper neutral chamber is voluntarily complicated. :laugh:

Thank you again IchoTolot ! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: IchoTolot on January 08, 2021, 10:12:01 AM
I actually forgot one comment:   

- 4 07: You have to assign every lemming a swimmer here before he drops into the water. Why not make the hatch spawn pre-assigned swimmers so you don't have to do it all manually 20 times? ???

Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on January 08, 2021, 01:33:15 PM
It's true ! Thank you ! I fixed this little "problem" ! ;P
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: ericderkovits on January 21, 2021, 05:57:02 AM
Hi David, I just noticed Icho will be putting your pack on Youtube. Also didn't realize you changed 4-24(blue lagoon). So I solved it but backrouted it . I didn't even get the climber pickup.

here is the replay


Also I put it on Youtube (backroute 4-24, blue lagoon)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvFEGGeJQr0
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on January 21, 2021, 01:16:08 PM
Hello ericderkovits,

Thanks for these informations !
For level Blue lagoon : well done ! I like very much your solution, it's still quite difficult, and for me, it's not really a backroute. It's a nice alternative solution, even if you haven't used the pickup climber !!! So, for the moment, I don't think I will make any changes to this level... :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: IchoTolot on January 21, 2021, 09:40:36 PM
Yes, the videos of my solutions will start to appear in a few days. If I remember, I will link the first one here. ;)
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: IchoTolot on February 01, 2021, 03:30:44 PM
I just want to bring your attention to my post here: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5393.msg89831#msg89831

With the next update a bug in the swimmer behavior is being fixed and this will cause Morning walk 25 to become impossible.

This is an easy fix though which you can already prepare for if you want.

This is the problem: Level accidentally uses the 4 pixel threshold so that a climber now dives. (Wall right of the exit cave)

Solution: Extend that straight wall the climber shall use to climb out of the water a few more pixels into the water.
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on February 03, 2021, 11:43:31 AM
Thank you IchoTolot ! Problem corrected ! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: LJLPM on February 07, 2021, 01:12:20 PM
In "The lemmings Have Grown [Morning walk 05]", level's title is "Chimie de Laboratoire" : is it intended, since "Laboratoire de Chimie" (Chemistry Laboratory) is more commonly used.

I follow Icho's daily videos, and there are nice levels, indeed! Great job!! :)
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: David on February 08, 2021, 02:43:13 PM
Hello LJLPM !

Yes, but the two expressions do not mean the same thing. ;P

"Chimie de laboratoire" refers to the chemistry practiced in laboratories. It is also, in France, a school disclipline in the universities.

However, of course, level's title could also have been "Laboratoire de Chimie" (Chemistry Laboratory) ! 8-) :thumbsup:

QuoteI follow Icho's daily videos, and there are nice levels, indeed! Great job!! :)

Cool ! Thank you ! But... wouldn't you rather play the levels than watch them ? ;) :lem-shocked:
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: LJLPM on February 08, 2021, 11:00:01 PM
- ok! Thank you for the explanation :)
- unfortunately, atm, I don't have free time to play Lemmings (or other video games)... :(
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: kaywhyn on March 16, 2021, 08:49:35 PM
Hi David,

I just started playing through this pack. I have finished the Morning Walk rank, so I'm here to post my replays/feedback.

Also as promised here is the link to my LP of the pack: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbp2m4KlFpJvLCF_p3iaXmqlEdEIdh5oN (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbp2m4KlFpJvLCF_p3iaXmqlEdEIdh5oN). Enjoy! :P

Just as a heads-up, I ran into Morning Walk 25 where it was impossible, but as it turns out I had an outdated version of the pack. This could had only happened where I downloaded the pack a really long time ago, and I must had forgotten to download the latest version before LPing the pack. Because I was up to Morning Walk 25 when I realized I had the impossible version due to the swimmer physics change, unfortunately 3 of my replays broke: Morning Walk 1, 12, and 15.

As a result, I was in a dilemma. I was wondering how I was going to go about with the LP. Like, should I simply record me solving each level individually and then reupload the videos with them merged, or should I tack it on the most recent LP video? In the end, I think I decided that since it's only 3 levels that I would simply just upload my solutions to them on this level pack topic.

In this case, Morning Walk 1 is the exact same solution as you see in the LP, while Morning Walk 12 is very different and definitely a lot harder than the version you see in the LP, and finally Morning Walk 15 is almost the same solution as the one you see in the LP, just the timing of the builders is different, as well as the need to fiddle with the RR.

So, in the file attachment, I attached the resolved versions of those 3 levels. Maybe what I'll do as well is simply show off the solutions to these 3 Morning Walk levels when I get to the end of the LP. Still, the old versions of them are there for you to watch even though the only one that's really different is Morning Walk 12.

General Remarks on the Pack So Far

First off, a lot of your levels are very nicely designed! :thumbsup: You certainly have a very keen, sharp artistic sense to your level designing. Indeed, I liked what I saw in the preview images on page 1 of this topic, and I was certainly amazed at how great they are to look at when I was playing through the pack. Nice job there. Some of my favorites visually were Morning Walk 1, 3 (Agrabah palace background), 9, 10, 15 (that rotating galaxy animation is cool!), 22, and 24. I think I also recognize some of the terrain on MW 25 to be from Freddi Fish's Maze Madness, so it seems that you're a fan of the Humongous Entertainment games? I too grew up with them.

Second, these are quite difficult for first rank levels. I was expecting levels that most won't have any trouble with that you usually find with the first ranks of many packs based on the Easy-Hard difficulty tag in the title. However, after playing and struggling through the first 5 levels to varying degrees, this is so not an Easy-Hard pack. Thus, I'm in complete agreement with Icho that Medium-Hard describes the difficulty of the pack more accurately. It's no fault of your own, though. You can take it from the long-time forumers here in that they will tell you that judging the difficulty of one's own work is very hard to do, especially since difficulty is quite subjective.

So, you might want to edit the topic title in the OP to reflect that. Simply go to the very first post, click "modify," and then edit the title to change the difficulty tag.

Now feedback on some of the levels themselves

Spoiler

Morning Walk 1 - Demi-tour Nice easy level to start off the rank. The resolved version isn't that much harder. It's just the same solution except that you must block with the first lemming due to the 99RR

Morning Walk 2 - Banlieue in London I was stupidly stumped on this level that I joked "the LP is off to a great start." As it turns out, I failed to realize that there's open air on the very far right when digging the blocker free. To be fair, it's very difficult to tell what's background and what's open air, particularly with the choice of the background along with the extremely difficult to tell things apart in the Shadow tileset. Of course, I could had avoided the problems this entire time by activating CPM, but I'm one of those people who rather not take the easy way out like that. Instead, I like figuring things out as I go. Lemmings is a puzzle game, and CPM certainly wasn't available when the original game was released.

Even then, this level is a huge step up in difficulty from the previous level.

Morning Walk 3 - Au pays d'Aladdin As mentioned before, I like how you put the background image of the palace of Agrabah from the movie Aladdin. This is a level that I did too much overthinking on. Even then, my solution is quite precise on the miner and builder placements.

Morning Walk 4 - Dans un salon bourgeois This might be a completely new style from you. Somewhat difficult level, although I ended up temporarily containing one of them. Not sure if you consider this solution acceptable.

Morning Walk 5 - Chimie de laboratoire The lab tileset is a great one to work with and one I certainly admire aesthetically. Here, is the pickup in the top left corner a red herring? It might be possible to collect it and still solve the level, but I don't know. I don't collect it, though. This level is also somewhat easier than some of the levels before it.

Morning Walk 6 - AU SECOURS !!! Although this is a repeat of Let's Be Careful Out There/Come On Over to My Place, I don't consider this a worthless repeat. This is a solution that I have never ever tried on the Fun version of the level. It's a nice one, with the only hard part finishing the level on time because of the strict time limit. Just to let you know, I don't mind time limits. I love them, and I'm a huge numbers lover, especially since math has always been a passion of mine.

Morning Walk 8 - Iznogoud Fascinating tileset. I think that's really cool how the locked exit magically appears after the button is pushed. That's cool with the button looking like some kind of envelope. There's also an indicator of where it is located due to the word "Exit" with the lockpad symbol. Easy level, with the only difficult part being to get the button and then get back without being infected.

Morning Walk 9 - Epopee cathare Nice somewhat easy level. The only hard part is containing the crowd at the beginning.

Morning Walk 10 - Le blizzard Easy one, with the only hard part to stop the miner at the beginning.

Morning Walk 11 - Rien ne sert de courir... Somewhat difficult level for a 30 second one. It's just all about knowing how to delay the second lemming to give the first one enough time to build across the gap. It's also vital to cut off the builder short since you don't have time for him to build the full length staircase.

Morning Walk 12 - Le grand plongeon Much harder than the one you see in the LP. The hardest part is getting the jumper/glider to land successfully on a stack that's only had a few bricks laid down. It's not easy to work out how to get all 3 lemmings to the other side at all. I do have a lot of skills leftover here, though. I'm guessing they're just to make the execution a bit easier?

Morning Walk 13 - Le palais de la reine 1 Ah, I failed to realize the 1 in the title and only noticed it just now. Even for just a 2-of-everything with 3 different skill types this level still managed to trip me up. Nice solution, though. I originally deduced incorrectly building over the anti-splat pad with a lemming from the left entrance. So, it's amazing how this can still be quite deceptive despite only 6 skills.

Morning Walk 14 - Bonds et rebonds Difficult one. Despite how the jumpers are very plentiful, they all end up being used. Here, it's all about knowing how to distribute the jumper skills since you cannot waste a single one. Working this out is hard. The fish statues with water coming out is nice and all, I just don't like how they can easily be confused for being solid instead of background. Especially with the water since some might think it's like a water pond that lemmings will drown in when they touch it. I guess with how it has an animation that should be the biggest clue that it's background, but even then generally most of the time they're placed out of the way so that they don't interfere with the solution or cause any confusion.

Morning Walk 15 - Seuls sur la lune Almost the same solution as the one you see in the LP. Here, I used a climber to delay one of them so as to give the glider enough time to collect the pickups so that everyone can get a glider before they get too low to be able to use the updrafts to get to the exit. The floater is a complete red herring, as lemmings cannot be both a floater and a glider at the same time.

Morning Walk 16 - Mosaiques sur roche Difficult one. It's not easy to work out how to contain the crowd, as well as how to get to the exit.

Morning Walk 17 - Soyons solidaires ! Sorry, this I consider a worthless repeat, as I've already played a very similar version of the level from bsmith's pack from a while back, where it has pretty much the same solution as this level here. Needless to say, this level just has been overdone too much already. That use of a bomber to help a lemming from the left entrance to get up to mine the adjacent trapdoor free is genius, though.

Morning Walk 18 - Orpiment Nice somewhat difficult level. Straightforward for the most part, but it's still not easy to work out. Whoa, that fish trap is interesting. I like how the button is a mini lemming statue.

Morning Walk 19 - Tapis roulants Somewhat easy. Very easy to contain the crowd due to the one-way force fields. I say the only hard part is getting up to the conveyor in the middle, but even then it's easy to work out due to the skills provided.

Morning Walk 20 - Bonshommes des neiges Another level that managed to stump me. There were some things that almost work but won't that I just couldn't dismiss for a wihle, as well as some things that I couldn't wrap my head around, most notably how to stop anyone from dying in the middle entrance. This has a really good red herring, though. You don't assign a climber to anyone in the right entrance even though it seems to be the most obvious thing. I ended up having a disarmer leftover, but it's a good thing that it's provided, as there might be the chance a lemming will slip by the basher tunnel and get killed by the icicle trap.

Morning Walk 21 - Le saut Nice level! The hardest part is working out how to turn a lemming around to get the pickup. The area to do so is really small. Fortunately this one I was able to work out fairly quickly, and I luckily noticed the pockets to mine into to stop the miner after releasing the blocker.

Morning Walk 22 - Sur les rocs et les monts Nice breather level since this is easier than most of the other levels around it. Moderate builderfest, but it's not that bad. Very nice background combined with the rock tileset! :thumbsup:

Morning Walk 23 - Objectif Terre A bit too repetitive with the stoning for my taste. Also one where I really overthought the solution. It's really not that hard. The only hard part is getting the stoner from the far right entrance at the right spot so the glider doesn't go past the exit.

Morning Walk 24 - Oasis Very nice level too! :thumbsup: Great background with the tileset. The only hard part is getting over the the trees, as well as turning around before the exit to platform up the gaps, but other than that it's somewhat an easy level.

Morning Walk 25 - L'ile au tresor Nice level that is somewhat of a breather as well. The only hard part is collecting the pickups and circling back and avoiding getting infected. Here, I let the swimmers do a couple of rounds in the water before finishing the platformer bridge.

Morning Walk 26 - Le palais de la reine 2 Ah, this is a sequel to MW 13, the halfway point of the rank. I probably spent about the same amount of time on this one as I did with MW 13. Nice solution, especially with making the splatform for the top entrance from below. Time limit makes the level somewhat harder.

To be truthful, I was quite annoyed at how I was constantly getting stumped, although it's more due to how hard levels just kept showing up after one another, that I'm not used to getting stumped a lot, and that I was cranky from not enough sleep. Don't get me wrong, these are great levels and quite satisfying to figure out. Not to mention a lot of these levels are great to look at, so they can be admired for their artistic quality in addition to most being great puzzles themselves :thumbsup:

However, I did the first 5 Fast Walk levels in the most recent LPs as well, and I definitely noticed they're much easier than the corresponding Morning Walk levels. That definitely got me enjoying the pack like I hope I would, as I breezed through them quickly. Fast Walk 2 and Fast Walk 5 both took me some time, but they were still somewhat fairly quick in figuring out.

Just to let you know you can certainly fix up any levels in the meantime while my LP is in progress, but I generally don't bother going back to resolve any levels that might had changed in the meantime. I simply carry on with the pack on the latest version that I have downloaded until I finish the pack, as any levels that change are simply ones that I have already solved and hence doesn't impact any of the levels that I haven't gotten to or played yet.

I'm looking forward to playing more of the pack! Definitely enjoying the pack. Thanks for this awesome level pack! Keep up the great work ;)
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Easy – Hard]
Post by: kaywhyn on March 17, 2021, 09:58:00 AM
Fast Walk rank finished, so I'm back with more replays/feedback. In contrast to the Morning Walk rank, nearly the entire Fast Walk felt like a breather rank, as it was a lot easier than the Morning Walk rank. Thus, I definitely started enjoying the pack way more, especially since the levels continue to be great both in visual and puzzle quality. In particular, there are two videos where I had 11 and 7 levels solved. You definitely remind me of Gronkling, another forum member who recently released a mini pack, where pretty much the thing about your levels is they're small and very short. They are sometimes easy, but most of the time they tend to be difficult, especially if done right. In Gronkling's pack, nearly all the 20 levels were deceivingly tough, especially in the Hard rank. Your levels tend to be deceivingly difficult as well, although that's definitely more true with the Morning Walk levels than the Fast Walk ones. There were only a few hard ones here, but in general the levels in the rank were quick solves.

Now for feedback on some of the Fast Walk levels:

Spoiler

Fast Walk 1 - Sonic Nice level to start off the rank. I love the design here. Those fighter plane traps are quite interesting. I wonder if you made them? Somewhat difficult, but it's still an overall easy level due to how there's only 1 lemming. I made the end part harder than I needed to, as I saw Icho's solution long after I solved the level. I'm not sure if you're aware of the builder/digger trick I used to turn a lemming around, though.

Fast Walk 2 - A bonds saccades Wow, those custom objects to propel a lemming upwards and temporarily becoming a glider are cool! :thumbsup: I might had made it slightly harder than I needed to, as the only thing that differs between mine and Icho's solution is the location of the platformer, as well as building on top of a stacker.

Fast Walk 3 - Le desintegrateur de lemmings and Fast Walk 4 - La peste verte were both very easy.

Fast Walk 5 - Le grand toboggan Slightly harder than the previous two, but still not very hard. Certainly the hardest part is containing the crowd at the start and once you successfully do that and isolate a worker the rest is easy.

Fast Walk 6 - Morts-vivants Easy one. My solution is probably a little bit fiddly, but this certainly saves up on skills.

Fast Walk 7 - Une jungle tranquille Very nice design combined with the background. Difficult one, although the next time I came back to this level it was a very quick solve. There is also one very fiddly part, where I relied on a lemming to get to the spot at the bottom to put down a platformer in order to "extend the basher." This is also your widest level up to this point in the pack.

Fast Walk 8 - Une chaleureuse chaumiere One of my favorites. The only difficult part is realizing you need a passthrough blocker while making sure only one lemming is isolated on to the left of the blocker.

Fast Walk 9 - En attendant quelqu'un O.o love the background of Aladdin and Jasmine on the magic carpet. I one-shot this level. Very easy.

Fast Walk 10 - Nocturne au Lac Majeur Somewhat difficult, although my solution is very different from Icho's. I use the Dolly Dimple trick for the upper entrance to isolate a worker and then later released them with a basher. For the bottom entrance, I simply went along the bottom rather than send them up through the top like Icho did.

Fast Walk 11 - Une partie de morpion I struggled with this for some time. I really like this puzzle, though! It's another one of my favorites. I definitely deduced using the long sections wherever possible, but I failed to realize the one right above the exit being extremely useful so that the answer is not going along the bottom to bash all the thin bars away.

Fast Walk 12 - Uranus World !!! Very easy as well. Only hard part are the diggers, since both are very precise.

Fast Walk 13 - Le palais de la reine 3 I really like this one as well for the third iteration of the level found at the halfway point and final level of the previous rank. It continues to be so here for the Fast Walk rank as well.

Fast Walk 14 - 2 lemmings en desherence Worthless repeat as well, since this solution isn't all that much different from the one players might possibly use on The Great Lemming Caper.

Fast Walk 15 - LEGO Wow, great design and level here. Quite an easy one.

Fast Walk 16 - Prions une main secourable !!! Dolly Dimple trick again to isolate a worker lemming. Nice use of building twice into a builder staircase to turn a lemming around. Only slightly harder than the other levels around it, but it's still a somewhat easy one.

Fast Walk 17 - Tour de maitre Definitely a harder repeat of Morning Walk 1. The solution is nearly the same, except no blocker to turn everyone around. Instead, a stacker is used and it's required to dig away the left half of the stack so that no one slips by before it's high enough to turn the lemmings around. The glider and jumper are absolutely necessary to give the first lemming as much of a head start as possible. It might be possible to save some skills, but I'm not sure.

Fast Walk 18 - Foret noire Wow, nice use of tileset mixing the Beast of a level and Beast II of a level. For the background, would that happen to represent the Black Forest? I wouldn't be surprised if it is, since I kind of got it from Beauty and the Beast, which does take place in France. As for the level, a little difficult. I think it's absolutely necessary for the digger pit to be as far away from the wall as possible so as to give the miner enough time to build across the second gap.

Fast Walk 19 - Toile d'araignee Now this is not a worthless repeat, as the solution is quite different. At the same time, I could had sworn I played a similar level to this before. It's certainly harder than the Mayhem 4 version. The only difficult part would be making sure no one splats when getting inside the web.

Fast Walk 20 - Un sejour en Enfer Nice breather level. Easy one. It's not a complete walk in the park, but it's easier than some of the levels around it.

Fast Walk 21 - Le Roi des neiges Another favorite of mine. Somewhat difficult. The hardest part is containing the crowd at the start. Once that's done, the rest is somewhat easy. Got to make sure to leave some ceiling so that the climber doesn't go out to the right. I like the use of placing the builder in such a way so that the lemming turns around with two builders.

Fast Walk 22 - Randonnee nordique is super easy.

Fast Walk 23 - Sang de feu I really like this one! :thumbsup: I definitely fell for the builder pickup red herring. I struggled with this one. Only the climber pickup is needed. Very nice solution here! Probably my most favorite of the entire rank. Nice job! :)

Fast Walk 24 - Par-dessus les toits Yet another level that isn't a worthless repeat, as the solution is very different. This is a difficult one. Containing the crowd is easy, but at the same time you need to make sure it is climber friendly on the left. Once that's done, the rest is somewhat easy. It's still not easy figuring out the building section at the top area before the pyramid.

Fast Walk 25 - Une prison marmoreenne Easy one. I like the use of a falling bomber to free both bottom entrances. The only thing that makes the level difficult is the strict timer.

Fast Walk 26 - Le palais de la reine 4 Another nice iteration to end the rank. Not that much harder than the previous 3 iterations.   

Once again, nice job with these levels, and I'm definitely looking forward to playing more of the pack soon! So far, I've only solved the first Running level on camera and got stumped on the second. I will come back later on after a good night's rest.
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: David on March 17, 2021, 07:54:49 PM
kaywhyn : I am very happy with your feedback on my work, especially because it's very detailed. ;) Initially, the levels in this pack were a bit easier and and some of them were lacking in interest. Thanks to IchoTolot, in particular, I reworked a lot of levels, which means that the difficulty is quite random : therefore, we will find levels of rank 4 easier than some levels of rank 1, but overall the difficulty increases gradually. However, I do realize that rank 2 is easier than rank 1. Damn ! :forehead: And I just corrected the title : "Medium-Hard" is righter, I agree !

Thank you for noting the care I take with the sets ;P, I am very sensitive to design and the artistic aspect in general, even if this isn't what interests me primarily when I play a level pack. Like many players, I think it's the puzzle-solving that interests me the most ! :eyeroll:

For most of the levels, you have found the intended solution or a very close to the one intended !

Some feedback :
Spoiler
Morning walk 4 : Well done ! Your solution is very close to the one I was thinking of. No problem !

Morning walk 5 :
QuoteHere, is the pickup in the top left corner a red herring? It might be possible to collect it and still solve the level, but I don't know.
Maybe ! I don't know !

Morning walk 6 : This isn't the intended solution at all, but I like it a lot !!! Well done !

Morning walk 8 : The button is actually a closed eye that opens... :):lem-mindblown: but, I agree, it looks like an envelope... :crylaugh:

Morning walk 9 : Valid alternative solution ! I hadn't thought of doing it like that. Anyway, in my initial solution, the climber was of no use. So, it's all right !

Morning walk 12 :
QuoteI do have a lot of skills leftover here, though. I'm guessing they're just to make the execution a bit easier?
Yes, this is normal, especially climbers ! :smug:

Morning walk 14 : Sorry for the confusion between solid part and background, I totally agree ! :-[

Morning walk 15 :
Quotethat rotating galaxy animation is cool!
I didn't create this graphic, I found it in another tileset whose name I forgot. :forehead: Beautiful solution, very close to the intended solution !

Morning walk 17 :
QuoteSorry, this I consider a worthless repeat, as I've already played a very similar version of the level from bsmith's pack from a while back, where it has pretty much the same solution as this level here.
Okay ! I don't know the version of bsmith ! :-[

Morning walk 20 : Yes, well done, that is exactly the intended solution. :thumbsup:

Morning walk 21 : Good ! Nice alternative solution. In fact, the level can be solved without using the pickup skill... :evil:

Morning walk 25 :
QuoteI think I also recognize some of the terrain on MW 25 to be from Freddi Fish's Maze Madness, so it seems that you're a fan of the Humongous Entertainment games? I too grew up with them.
I didn't create this tileset. And... I don't know much about this game. But it's true that it looks like it ! :o

Fast walk 1 :
QuoteI made the end part harder than I needed to, as I saw Icho's solution long after I solved the level. I'm not sure if you're aware of the builder / digger trick I used to turn a lemming around, though.
I didn't know this trick ! Nice !

Fast walk 2 : Yes, there are plenty of different solutions in this level. But you used the same skills as in the expected solution.

Fast walk 7 : Wow ! What a complicated solution ! :lem-mindblown::lem-mindblown::lem-mindblown::lem-mindblown::lem-mindblown: There are other much more obvious solutions... Well done anyway ! ;P

Fast walk 8 : Well done ! Solution intended. I had in mind two possible solutions for this level, quite close to each other.

Fast walk 9 : Yes ! There are references to Disney and fairy tales in some levels... :laugh: :cute:

Fast walk 10 : Backroute ! IchoTolot found the intended solution. Well done ! But... I might make some changes to this level ! ???

Fast walk 12 : Well done ! There are several solutions. This is a very satisfactory one.

Fast Walk 14 :
QuoteWorthless repeat as well, since this solution isn't all that much different from the one players might possibly use on The Great Lemming Caper.
Sorry again : I don't know "The Great Lemming Caper" ! I spent all my childhood in Agrabah, I cannot know everything... :lemcat: I have Jasmine's number - and Aladdin's number too - if you're interested ! ?????????:lix-evil::forehead:

Fast walk 17 : Well done, but we can do a lot easier ! ;P

Fast walk 18 : Nice alternative solution ! Well done ! For the background, it's just a photo that I edited with image editing software. ;)

Fast walk 23 : Well done ! But there is a easier solution, which uses fewer skills.

Fast walk 25 : Valid alternative solution. In the intended solution, the climber and the floater are not used.

Thank you very much kaywhyn (in French scrabble, your nickname counts for 46 points !!!) ! :crylaugh: :thumbsup:

I'll watch your LP later ! :P

Bye !
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: kaywhyn on March 18, 2021, 09:23:10 PM
Running rank completed. Replays attached. Back to being difficult again, after an easy second rank. Nearly this entire rank was a huge and long struggle. There was still the occasional LP video where I was able to solve several levels, but for the most part solving times slowed to a crawl again in this rank.

Spoiler

Running 1 - L'Academie des 9 Difficult level to start off the rank. I like the puzzle, though, where it comes down to analyzing each section and what pickups are in each and determining the correct order. Kind of reminds me of a contest level I played where practically the entire level was filled with pickups, especially since you start with no skills available to assign.

Running 2 - Acrobates A level where I overthought the solution completely. I kept thinking I had to stop the second lemming from slipping by the digger pit. Turns out that he'll always slip by no matter what you do, and that he's supposed to. The only difficult part is making sure everyone survives, as you need to dig right above the steel so that the digger gets stopped by it, and as a result the lemmings that come from the hatch won't be able to land on anything before falling into the digger pit. It's a really good level, though! ;)

Running 3 -Dans un vaisseau spatial Great level that managed to stump me for a time. The hardest part is knowing where to mine in order to clone it so that he releases the crowd, as it seems that it's quite precise. It's also difficult to determine whether you're supposed to clone the builder or the miner. Definitely one of my favorites, especially with the puzzle of how to release both the preplaced lemmings and the crowd, and realizing that the preplaced lemmings can simply climb out, as you don't have enough builders to get them out.

Running 4 - Le lac is a breather level. Nothing too special about it other than you have to build from both sides.

Running 5 - Espace en distorsion Nice builders only level. Of course, I could had taken the easy way out by using CPM so as to automatically tell which teleporter the Lemmings are supposed to get to to reach the exit, but my non-use once again is deliberate. Even then, it's not a hard level despite how it took me some time to solve.

Running 6 - Un forage original Uh, yea, there was no fooling me here at all. I instantly recognized that the nuke solution is needed. The biggest clue was the save requirement. 1 minute spent on it and done.

Running 7 - Les 3 foreurs This level I consider a semi-worthless repeat. It's not in that it uses a solution that you cannot do on the Mayhem version, but you can on the Fun version. I'm just not sure if the level is worth it just for a diggers only solution. The only hard part is realizing you need to dig right above the ramp, which will ensure giving the second digger assignment enough time so that no one turns back to the right.

Running 8 - Planeurs a la derive Ok level. The timing here seems extremely tight to make the splatform so that no one splats. It seems that saving both walkers to turn around is absolutely vital.

Running 9 - Les marches de l'invisible Another breather level. Very easy.

Running 10 - Architecture de fantaisie Another favorite of mine. That's quite clever to use a builder to seal off the digger tunnel while inside it with another Lemming and then later bombing him so that both sides of the wall are breached to release the crowds.

Running 11 - Sur la banquise Ok level. Seems like there's a lot of fiddliness with the crowd control so that no more than one lemming drops into the water. It took me several tries to get this timing/spacing right.

Running 12 - Scenario de film d'horreur Another breather level, though not exactly a walk in the park. Made easy by the fact there's only lemming which you can assign skills to

Running 13 - Le palais de la reine 5 Harder than the previous 4 iterations. The timing is especially tight in creating the splatform for the second lemming from the top entrance. Also need to build in such a way so that you don't seal off the path to get to the pit at the bottom. I think this might be pixel precise.

Running 14 - Shinto Difficult but nice puzzle ;) Not sure what was going on, but a few times when I tried building at the start I couldn't get the lemming to jump to the wall and climb. Maybe that part is very precise with the builder placement? The way to get to the button and avoid the zombie is great. Also must build from the left for the gap before the exit and bash before forging the rest of the path.

Running 15 - Les hieroglyphes mysterieuses Yet another great level that managed to stump me, but that's because I was somewhat of a dummy. Turns out that I did nearly all the level correct the entire time. The only thing that was wrong was making the worker lemming a climber due to how I dug with the first lemming and hence no one can get by the pit. Also couldn't visualize the solution with the remaining tools, but that is quite clever to dig under low enough and then bash into the steel to turn around so that when you mine you won't take the ceiling with it. Still, I can see how this level can trip people up. Needless to say, it can be quite difficult.

Running 16 - Le Pont des Soupirs Absolutely love the design here! :thumbsup: Hard one, especially with figuring out how to get the crowd past the bridge. The water gap near the exit seems to be a complete red herring. Still, that was a good one to throw it in and potentially fool someone in using it like it did with me :laugh:

Running 17 - La Princesse au petit pois Easy one. The only hard part is getting two lemmings into the narrow pit, which requires good timing. Also must stone low enough so that the right basher will get stopped due to the digger.

Running 18 - Hansel et Gretel Hard one. Lots of dead ends where you can easily be a skill or so short. It's hard to determine the path to take to get the preplaced lemmings to the exit. Seems like this was one where I really overthought the solution. More red herring pickup skills :crylaugh:

Running 19 - La bibliotheque du chateau Near straightforward level were it not for the fact that when the miner finishes they can all step out to the left. Easy to rectify by digging on the far left and then building to prevent that, as well as being able to get into the exit on time. Satisfying to beat the timer here ;)

Running 20 - Nuit d'etoiles Another level where I kept confusing myself as to what to do. I knew the solution entails having a lemming land on top of a stoner, I just couldn't determine how to get that to happen for some time :crylaugh:

Running 21 - Luminaires Not a hard level, just has very tricky timing. I like the level for how a miner is used to create a mini staircase instead of a basher while leaving the exit terrain intact.

Running 22 - Cache-cache Nice two lemming level with a hidden exit. I don't mind them, as long as there's some kind of visual cue as to its location. There isn't any here, but it's still easy to deduce where the exit is. Still, I would make the exit visible.

Running 23 - La prison d'Andromede Another breather level. Easy one

Running 24 - Dos crawle Nice repeat where it's almost the same as the first version of the level I played where I had an old version of the pack, except there's not enough skills to use the diving board. Instead, you have to go underneath the level. There is some difficult timing for blocking to turn the builder around.

Running 25 - Jeux d'enfants Great level and solution. The digger is very precise so that only one lemming slips out to the right while everyone else cannot slip out on either side. I definitely overthought the solution here as well.

Running 26 - Le palais de la reine 6 The 6th iteration of the same level found at the halfway point and at the very end of each rank. First one in the series to not use all 6 skills. One of the skills is a pickup, but it's a complete red herring. Easy one, though.

Quote from: David on March 17, 2021, 07:54:49 PM
Morning walk 8 : The button is actually a closed eye that opens... :):lem-mindblown: but, I agree, it looks like an envelope... :crylaugh:

Fascinating :crylaugh:

Quote
Okay ! I don't know the version of bsmith ! :-[

No worries. It's a level pack found in the v10 or older board.

Quote
Sorry again : I don't know "The Great Lemming Caper" ! I spent all my childhood in Agrabah, I cannot know everything... :lemcat: I have Jasmine's number - and Aladdin's number too - if you're interested ! ?????????:lix-evil::forehead:

Unless you're joking and messing around here, I'm not sure what you mean by Jasmine's and Aladdin's number ??? And don't worry about me mentioning these are worthless repeats of levels from the OL. I simply consider any repeat worthless if the solution isn't that much different from the one that a player might use on the difficult repeat version of the level. That's just my thought on repeat levels, though :P

Quote
Thank you very much kaywhyn (in French scrabble, your nickname counts for 46 points !!!) ! :crylaugh: :thumbsup:

Ah, that's really cool! :laugh: My nickname is apparently very valuable in the French version of scrabble. In the USA's version, it's only worth about half the number of points that it is in the French version. Now if only it was an acceptable word in the game :crylaugh:

I've also noticed that you tend to overuse exclamation marks. Unless you're absolutely trying to convey strong emotions/feelings, it's standard to use periods to end sentences instead. You're not the only forumer I noticed doing this, though. I told another member he was doing the same and since then he has used periods rather than exclamation marks for every sentence ;)



Halfway through the pack already! :lem-shocked: I continue to enjoy the pack both for the visuals and the puzzles, so I'm looking forward to playing more. So far had an attempt at the first 100 Metres level, but I just realized an idea that might work, so I will try it out on it soon :crylaugh:
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: David on March 18, 2021, 11:56:14 PM
kaywhyn : I watched your LPs with pleasure and really enjoyed following the flow of your thinking, you are very patient and you take a really good look at things. I also like the fact that you are not using "CPM" (grayed out mode). ;)

To answer your questions :

- Z is the first letter of my maternal grandmother's birth surname. ;P

- The Lemmigns have grown : why ? For 30 years, they have evolved, they have more skills, so they have become real warriors ! :lemcat:

You mentioned the Dolly Dimple in several levels, and I was wondering what that means ? ???

QuoteUnless you're joking and messing around here, I'm not sure what you mean by Jasmine's and Aladdin's number
I was joking, but maybe it's more like "phone number" in english ???

QuoteI simply consider any repeat worthless if the solution isn't that much different from the one that a player might use on the difficult repeat version of the level. That's just my thought on repeat levels, though
I understand very well ; and it's nice to let me know.

QuoteI've also noticed that you tend to overuse exclamation marks. Unless you're absolutely trying to convey strong emotions/feelings
Yes, that's right, I'll try to calm down a bit !!!!!! :lemcat::lemcat:

A few comments :

Spoiler
Running 6 : Good ! But we can do easier.

Running 7 : I agree with your remarks, this is one of the first levels I created, it's not extraordinary, but you still have to be precise. ;)

Running 8 :
QuoteThe timing here seems extremely tight to make the splatform so that no one splats. It seems that saving both walkers to turn around is absolutely vital.
In fact, a slightly simpler solution exists.

Running 10 : Bravo ! Very close to the intended solution.

Running 11 : Little backroute. Wow ! What a complicated solution ! :lem-mindblown: You really got into your head (I don't know if this expression is correct ???) ! The expected solution is really much easier : you just have to isolate the crowd at the start. ??????

Running 14 : Bravo ! This is exactly the same solution as the intended solution.

Running 15 : Very nice alternative solution, without using the stopper. Well done ! :thumbsup:

Running 16 : Little backroute. Nice work, but there is an extra basher, which I will remove in a future update. :-[

Running 18 : Bravo ! But... backroute (as in the IchoTolot's version) : I forgot to remove the climber, which is useless in the expected solution. I will do this in the next update. Sorry. :-[

Running 19 : The use of the climber is not essential. But it's well done. In fact, the use of the climber/floater at the beginning is not essential.

Running 21 : Wow ! Complicated solution. There is a much simpler solution... without using the pickup skill. :P

Running 22 :
QuoteNice two lemming level with a hidden exit. I don't mind them, as long as there's some kind of visual cue as to its location. There isn't any here, but it's still easy to deduce where the exit is. Still, I would make the exit visible.
This is the only level in my pack with an invisible exit. I appreciate fantasies, sometimes. :laugh:

Running 23 : Ok ! Little backroute : stoppers removed and one steel added.

For the other levels, your solutions are those expected, or very close.

So, I decided to update my pack after you finish it : I'm just going to fix some backroutes.

QuoteHalfway through the pack already!   I continue to enjoy the pack both for the visuals and the puzzles, so I'm looking forward to playing more. So far had an attempt at the first 100 Metres level, but I just realized an idea that might work, so I will try it out on it soon 
Thank you very much ! The first 100 metres level is not difficult ! You just gotta find the trick (or the tricks). ;P
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: kaywhyn on March 20, 2021, 08:59:07 AM
100 Metres rank complete, so more replays and feedback. Same story as the Running rank, where there were plenty of difficult levels in this rank and hence solving times were quite slow as well. Still, I continue to enjoy the pack and there were still plenty of great levels in the rank :)

Spoiler

100 Metres 1 - Il neige Unless this is intended, my entire solution is pixel precise. I later realized that I didn't need to place the stacker where it is in the solution. Knowing myself, I really overthought and overcomplicated this level. You say it's not hard, but I thought it was. I curious of possible easier solutions than the one I found. This is also the first level that I needed to spend some time off camera to try and solve, as I generally do that if I can't get the level solved after 2 videos. Luckily, I was able to pull off doing the solution again, as I also generally don't use replays in my LPs.

100 Metres 2 - Comme Tarzan... Builderfest here, and what I thought was a breather isn't exactly what I consider one. It definitely requires some thought as to how to get the most of your platformers/builders despite builders looking very plentiful. It's a nice design visually, especially with the background, even if there's a lot of emptiness between the gaps.

100 Metres 4 - Maison hantee !!! Difficult one. The timing is especially hard here. Definitely requires RR fiddling to get the necessary timing/spacing. It's not clear that you can even make it onto the torch holder with just two builders. I do like how you need a backwards basher in order to climb up the tall hill to start building.

100 Metres 5 - Le parc d'attraction Another difficult one, but I really like this one :thumbsup: the shimmier trick to bomb out the upper neutral group is quite clever. I watched your intended solution after solving this level on my own, of course, and it's quite different from mine. I think I delivered a somewhat easier way. Still, I like how you mined the climber neutral group out. I simply did it at a lower location.

100 Metres 6 - Une escalade cooperative Yet another hard one. I don't know if my solution is intended, though, especially since I don't even use the bashers. I also find it strange that the lemmings can survive the needle trap if they get high enough.

100 Metres 7 - Comme un poisson dans l'eau Not as hard as some of the previous levels, but it's still somewhat of a challenge. Here, I fiddled with the RR so that I can turn the second lemming around in the really small digger pit with a builder and so that he can slip out of it to the left before the digger digs all of the terrain away. The rest of the level is easy after that.

100 Metres 8 - Renaissance Breather level. It's not exactly a walk in the park, but it's obvious what needs to be done. It's not as big of a builderfest as the second level in this rank, but it's quite close. Just need to platform/build high enough uninterrupted and you should be fine.

100 Metres 9 - Les temps modernes Bit harder than some of the previous levels, but it's still not that hard. It's just difficult to navigate the tricky terrain in the gears efficiently. Despite the limited skillset, the level appears to be open-ended.

100 Metres 10 - L'enigme des Pharaons Easy and one of my favorites. Got the gist of the solution very fast, just did the first bomber in the wall incorrectly, as it should be on the right wall rather than the left.

100 Metres 11 - Chevauchee forestiere Somewhat of a breather. The hardest part is simply getting low enough to be able to platform all the way across uninterrupted. Luckily, platformers don't hit their head as easily as builders. Nice level.

100 Metres 12 - Salle de bal Possibly my favorite of the rank :thumbsup: It's an extremely nice puzzle and very satisfying to figure out. It's not obvious that the wall where the button is can be reached with all the builders provided on top of a stoner on the right side. That's quite neat to dig away the builder staircase to fall before the wall and bomb to make a nice ramp for the crowd to get up to the exit. It is a bit precise, though.

100 Metres 13 - Le palais de la reine 7 Not that much harder than the previous iterations. The only difficult part is making it onto the floating platform with the top two lemmings. Seems it's necessary to delay the second one with a climber so that when he joins the first builder he is able to reach the other platform to be able to turn around to free the bottom crowd.

100 Metres 14 - Stalactites Interesting level that's entirely steel. Breather level, although it's not obvious that the worker can make it over the top with 4 stackers. Still a nice level/puzzle.

100 Metres 15 - Petits ponts Another favorite of mine. Not a hard one, I was simply a dummy here for a while. I kept trying to get everyone out of the pit without having anyone fall off and be stuck in the small pit on the left. Features the stacker/stoner trick to step up. Very satisfying to figure out the solution and to beat the timer. I like how the swimmer and the cloner have just enough time to make it to the exit.

100 Metres 16 - Sable chaud Somewhat easy, although the level appears difficult. Nice solution/puzzle. Those pixelated red dots is an interesting fire trap. I have never seen them before.

100 Metres 17 - Parcours accrobranche Another level where I was a dummy and kept trying things at the beginning that just wouldn't work and stop anyone from falling into the bottomless pit. Turns out that the solution is to contain everyone in the pit where the pickup is. Achieving this so that no one can fiddle off the bottom of the screen is the only hard part. Once that's figured out, the rest is easy.

100 Metres 18 - Le Labyrinthe de Minos Great level. The only hard part is getting both climbers up so that the platformer brick does not block the other one. Seems that achieving this is nearly automatic and requires one round after getting the top climber pickup. I like how you need to platform on the raised area so that he doesn't turn around, or you'll run out of time otherwise.

100 Metres 19 - Le mur de briques Hard one. I kept trying things that wouldn't work, and kept thinking one climber was supposed to go over the top while the other climber was supposed to go through the bottom. Earlier attempts kept failing from doing the OWW part incorrectly as a result of doing the left side wrong. Turns out both need to go up together on the left side. Achieving this is difficult, but once successful the rest is easy.

100 Metres 20 - Double je Somewhat hard, although the only hard part is the starting area. This seems very precise so that a climber can get up to the button. I like how a miner needs to be used and cloned so that the worker climber can survive the fall ;) The rest is easy.

100 Metres 21 - Un serpent siffle sur leur tete Not a hard one. The only difficult part is getting a worker lemming over the top. Jumpers might seem plentiful, but they surprisingly run out fast. I could have had some left if I had interrupted the miner/basher with other skills instead.

100 Metres 22 - Palais d'Orient Another favorite of mine. The only hard part is figuring out how to get up in the starting area while making sure no one dies to the needles trap. The key is realizing that only one lemming needs to make it up to where the thin bars are. Also that getting through the first thin bar with a miner and cloning to get the crowd up. The bomber and digger to get through the other two bars are interchangeable.

100 Metres 23 - Le Mot code Not a hard one as well. That is neat with the builder through a thin wall trick to leave a step for the lemmings higher up to fall on to survive. I'm not sure if there's supposed to be a code here that dictates what order the skills should be performed. If there is one, it's probably in French, and so I wouldn't know what it would say.

100 Metres 24 - Blue Lagoon Not too terribly difficult either. The only hard part is getting the timing/spacing right so that no one slips into the bottomless pit, as the bomber is the only casuality allowed. The climber pickup appears to be a red herring.

100 Metres 25 - Boutons de rose Tricky one, but it's not too hard. The very strict time limit is the main enemy here. There was one attempt that failed by a fraction of a second, but in the next attempt, when I dug one pixel back then I was able to finish on time ??? The key is realizing that the second lemming needs a glider to get as much horizontal movement as possible even though it seems counterintuitive due to how a glider is slower than a faller. Also digging away the in-progress builder staircase with the second lemming so that you have enough time to finish. Absolutely no room for error here.

100 Metres 26 - Le palais de la reine 8 Harder than some of the previous iterations. The hardest part is getting two climbers over the wall who are close enough so that the teleporter overloads and allows the next one to slip by while it's busy so that he can bash the crowd out. I achieved this by having a lemming climb the left wall to create the proper spacing/timing.

Quote from: David on March 18, 2021, 11:56:14 PM
kaywhyn : I watched your LPs with pleasure and really enjoyed following the flow of your thinking, you are very patient and you take a really good look at things. I also like the fact that you are not using "CPM" (grayed out mode). ;)

To answer your questions :

- Z is the first letter of my maternal grandmother's birth surname. ;P

- The Lemmigns have grown : why ? For 30 years, they have evolved, they have more skills, so they have become real warriors ! :lemcat:

I'm glad to hear that you're enjoying my LP very much. Indeed, this community seems to like them very much, as it's fun to hear the player/solver thinking out loud how to go about solving a level, as well as his/her thoughts on the levels themselves.

Quote
You mentioned the Dolly Dimple in several levels, and I was wondering what that means ? ???

If you're familiar with Crazy 2 - Dolly Dimple from ONML, you'll know why :P It refers to building in such a way so that only one lemming faces the opposite way from the rest of the crowd.

Quote
QuoteUnless you're joking and messing around here, I'm not sure what you mean by Jasmine's and Aladdin's number
I was joking, but maybe it's more like "phone number" in english ???

Ah, yea, pretty much like "phone number" in English ;)

Quote
So, I decided to update my pack after you finish it : I'm just going to fix some backroutes.

That's a good idea. I figured you were going to wait until I have finshed the LP of the pack. Seems most of the level pack authors generally wait until I'm done LPing the pack instaed of update any chance they get to whenever I post feedback/replays. In this way, you won't have to release a lot of updates shortly after one another every time and can simply prepare a huge update for the pack.



4 ranks down, two more to go! So far, only had a look at the first level of the 400 Metres rank. I decided to throw that in in my most recent LP video because Tinker Bell is one of many of my favorite Disney characters ;) I will post here again when I finish the 400 Metres rank :) Looking forward to reading your feedback on the 100 Metres rank.
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: David on March 20, 2021, 08:46:56 PM
Thanks kaywhyn for the explanation on the Dolly Dimple, I must have played it, but I can't remember. In fact, I played more of the Original and Christmas Lemmings. :P

So, if you're interested, I have attached my replays (of the intended solutions) for some levels, especially those where you found a more complicated or very different solution. :D

My feedback :
Spoiler
100 metres 1 : Well done ! But your solution is very complicated. :lem-shocked: The intended solution is much easier. I didn't think this level could be so difficult ! (my replay attached)

100 metres 2 : Perfect !

100 metres 3 : Well done. It might be easier and safer to block zombies from both sides.

100 metres 4 : Perfect !

100 metres 5 : Nice alternative solution.

100 metres 6 : Backroute : there is a bug. I find it odd that the trigger zone doesn't cover the entire object. :forehead: It must be an error, I think (?) I will correct this problem in the next update.

100 metres 7 : Bravo !

100 metres 8 : Well done !

100 metres 9 : Yes, there are plenty of possible paths / solutions for this level. It's not very difficult, but you just have to be careful because there are few skills. ;)

100 metres 10 to 14 : Perfect ! :thumbsup:

100 metres 15 : Well done ! Close to the intended solution.

100 metres 16 : Bravo !

100 metres 17 : Well done ! At the beginning, it's possible to block the lemmings more simply (my replay attached).

100 metres 18 : Perfect. Imagine that you can also pass this level without using the floater. :o

100 metres 19 to 21 : Solution intended. Well done.

100 metres 22 : Nice alternative solution, a little complicated. ;) In the intended solution, both cloners are used for building the stairs (my replay attached).

100 metres 23 : Bravo ! In reality, there are several possible paths in this level. There is indeed a hidden code word in French (amour = love), but it isn't used to complete the level.

100 metres 24 : Well done ! But this is a backroute (same solution as ericderkovits) ; I will fix the problem by adding a column in the next update. In fact, it's possible to go to the left to get the pickup skill climber.

100 metres 25 and 26 : Super !

For now, I'm happy because I'm not seeing a lot of backroutes. However, sometimes you find solutions that are much more complicated than what I imagined. But, on the whole, your (re)solutions sound like I had imagined. I looking forward to watching the rest (in replay and LP). Thank you ! ;P
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: kaywhyn on March 22, 2021, 10:28:37 AM
400 Metres rank completely solved. Replays attached and of course more feedback. More hard levels here, but still very much enjoying this great pack of yours ;) Definitely slow going at first but progress sped up somewhat in the middle of the rank, and then slowed again somewhat near the end.

Spoiler

400 Metres 1 - La fee Clochette Awesome, a level that features Tinker Bell, one of many of my favorite Disney characters :) Not a difficult level to start off the rank, although I generally have a difficult time with levels that have stackers. The fencer assignments are very precise, although it's understandable due to the design of Tinker Bell herself. Even then, some leeway would be nice. Maybe there's an easier solution than the one I found?

400 Metres 2 - Au Royaume des joyaux Nicely designed level ;) Not a really hard one, but it can still trip you up if you're not careful, and I wasn't very careful :XD:. In particular, the climber must be allowed to go back to the right before building over the purple crystals.

400 Metres 3 - Fuite d'eau Complete breather level. Way more than enough skills to finish the level. There's probably multiple routes to get through the level.

400 Metres 4 - Dare-dard I definitely kept overthinking this level. It turns out far easier than how I made it out to be. Great design and background ;)

400 Metres 5 - Bienvenue au Parthenon Difficult one, but one of my favorites! :thumbsup: I definitely had problems determining whether everyone is supposed to go over the top or through the many pillars at the bottom. The hardest part would be rescuing both the blocker and the lemming who frees him. It's also not very clear whether building from the highest point on the first pillar allows you to get up high enough with the very limited amount of builders provided.

400 Metres 6 - Dans les steppes glacees Repeat of a level that I believe was in the previous rank. It's only slightly harder, but it's still an easy one. Previously, it was a ceiling route. Now, it's going underneath the level route.

400 Metres 7 - Competences Not sure if my solution is intended. Somewhat difficult, especially since I use the very fiddly stacking and a basher to punch a hole on both sides to release the crowd. However, this is very precise and timing heavy. Those are really interesting custom teleporter like objects with a picture of a digger on them. Seems the way is to avoid them? Not sure if there is a solution through the bottom.

400 Metres 8 - Larmes de givre Easy one. Only hard part is to release the climbers in such a way that both are going to the left first and then destroy the builder staircase so that they're falling to the left.

400 Metres 9 - Amor Somewhat difficult but another favorite of mine! :thumbsup: The hardest part is timing the climbers so that the second one can build the staircase to allow the other one to use it to shimmy from below. After the builder is done, it must be dug through so as to delay him so that he doesn't reach the exit before it's unlocked. After that, working out how to get the climber out from the right area is a bit difficult. I'll also have to agree with Icho about being careful about using a well-known trap as a custom button here. Of course, since I generally don't use CPM in my LPs, I had no idea it was a button, although it was the only thing that stood out from all the rest of the level.

400 Metres 10 - L'arbre des songes Not a terribly difficult one, although it still takes some thought as to how to get the most of your builders on this level. The key is getting as high as possible on the first tree obstacle you get to, as well as making sure that no one can walk out to the left on the same tree obstacle. Very nice background here.

400 Metres 11 - Foret psychedelique Almost a repeat of a similar level found in a previous rank. I really like this one as well. The only hard part is stopping the lemmings from splatting and containing the crowd in the pit on the left, but once done the rest is easy.

400 Metres 12 - Pres du port d'Alexandrie Easy one, especially since it's the second 1 lemming level in the rank. This level is a good example of one where even though it might not seem to matter which destructive digging skill to use, it's quite critical here, as it's important to make sure to have a basher for the end.

400 Metres 13 - Le palais de la reine 9 Not that much harder than some of the previous iterations of the level. The very strict time limit is the main problem here. It seems absolutely necessary to max out the RR right away to be able to finish on time.

400 Metres 14 - Nougatine a gogo Bit difficult but a nice one. Really nice design here as well. The part to get the climber pickup is quite precise. The timing to get him to the other side after mining before the other lemming stacks too high is tight as well, especially since it's important that the miner tunnel can be sealed up with a stacker.

400 Metres 15 - Tic et tac Another great one. Love the clock designs here. I figured this one out fairly quick, so it was an easy one, though still no complete walk in the park.

400 Metres 16 - Temple au Tibet O.o, this is a really nice looking tileset with a outdoor night sky background. Breather level.

400 Metres 17 - Le phare By far my favorite designed level of yours up to this point despite the really spooky looking terrain and environment. That's a really cool lighthouse exit, which is located near the top where the lightning shoots out from. I thought it was near the bottom, but that's what I get for not using CPM.

400 Metres 18 - Mystere sous l'evier Another huge favorite of mine in terms of the puzzle! :thumbsup: I especially like how the climber needs to get back up the level where he came from after going out to the right to build the right half of the bridge across the water gap. Somewhat difficult level, but it's still not too hard.

400 Metres 19 - Le Chateau Rose Very nice looking level here, especially with the trees! ;) This level ended up giving me more problems than I thought it would, but that's because I was a dummy with how I was going about with containing the crowd at the start. It also appears that going up the right side would work, but it just barely fails. So even though it doesn't look like it would, turns out the way is to build a very long staircase on the left side, reaching just below the moon.

400 Metres 20 - Lavomatique Yet another favorite of mine! :thumbsup: Definitely reminds me of POOR WEE CREATURES from OL because the structure at the very beginning kind of resembles it, and also because of how there's a splat hatch here. Of course, can't stop them from splatting like we can here, as a glider is not provided in the other level and hence you can't bomb a hole in the wall to start building from.

400 Metres 21 - Bonbons Difficult one. Very hard to figure out what the best route to take is, let alone whether the pickups are needed or not. The very limited amount of destructive skills nearly indicates to get around walls/obstacles and only use them for the top where the exit is. This is also a really nicely designed level, especially with the background ;)

400 Metres 22 - E-toiles Yet another favorite of mine! :thumbsup: I like how it's necessary to mine in such a way that a kink in the right wall is made for the worker to be able to climb back out later and then a shimmier is used to get across the gap in the floor made by the miner. You also have to do the same with the miner on the left side so that he can shimmy over the exit and then jump over the exit from the right side in order to mine the crowd out.

400 Metres 23 - Le prisonnier d'Alcatraz I overthought the solution here. Once again, levels with stackers generally give me problems. Even then, this isn't a really hard one. Seems the key is to simply keep the crowd moving, as I ended up beating the crowd with platforming over the water gap before the exit before anyone can fall in and drown. Knowing myself, there are probably easier solutions than mine.

400 Metres 24 - Eldorado Ah, the city of gold, hence all the gold colors in the level. Somewhat difficult, but a nice one. I thought the fish was a trap, especially since it's already been established as one in earlier levels. So, I would definitely keep to being consistent, as you do not want to first make it a trap in one level but then a solid object on another. The game is already complicated as is, and with so many tilesets and custom objects it's nearly impossible to keep track of everything.

400 Metres 25 - A pas feutres Yet another level where I was really overthinking the solution. Some of the gaps don't look like they can be platformed or sealed with just one skill. It seems that one needs to outpace the zombies. Luckily, you could just cut the building skills short once the zombie(s) pass by. I was also fortunate the timing worked out once she's able to get past the first zombie successfully.

400 Metres 26 - Le palais de la reine 10 Same as 400 Metres 13 in that this is harder than some of the previous iterations, but it's a really good one. I really like how the solution entails sending up two climbers, with the first one building to hit his head and turn around, while the second one bashes away the builder staircase before he turns around so that he can fall through the gap in the staircase to the left to bash the crowd out. Then you must build so that he turns around so that he doesn't climb up the huge wall on the far left, as he will splat otherwise.

All rightie, 1 more rank to go! :) So far, I've only done the first two levels of the Marathon rank, and I got to say with the first one that's so cool how you pretty much remade a level from the Prince of Persia game into a Lemmings level. I haven't played the game myself, but I've seen Youtube videos of a playthrough of it sometime ago. So, 24 levels left to solve. I'll probably be through the rest of the pack in about a day or two. Almost done! ;)
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: David on March 22, 2021, 05:48:54 PM
Thanks kaywhyn : for most of the levels, you found the solution intended. :thumbsup:

Spoiler
400 metres 1 : Perfect ! I do it a little differently (my replay attached).

400 metres 2 : Nice alternative solution.

400 metres 3 : Well done ! I will take a lot of skills away for the update. In fact, this level (like Running 12) was designed in the days of rising water, which made climbing much more difficult. :'(

400 metres 4 : Yes, this level is easier than you might think. ;)

400 metres 5 : Intended solution. Yes, this level is difficult : we must find a way to save the stopper.

400 metres 6 : Little backroute : I will add a hole and remove the digger, which normally isn't used in the intended solution. :o

400 metres 7 : There is a solution through the bottom, easier than the one you found. However, I will add an unlock button in the next update. :D

400 metres 8 : Ok !

400 metres 9 : I understand the button identification problem, but the trap has its mouth open, while the button has its mouth closed. I think this difference makes it easy to tell them apart, not to mention the CPM usage that most players use. :P

400 metres 10 : Well done !

400 metres 11 to 15 : Intended solution. Well done !

400 metres 16 : Indeed, the level is too easy : I will remove some skills in the next update. :lem-shocked:

400 metres 17 : Bravo ! I had fun creating a scary/horror-movie atmosphere with the rough sea, the fog and the lighthouse on. :scared: :evil: :devil: Thank you for your appreciations.

400 metres 18 : Intended solution. Well done !

400 metres 19 : Nice alternative solution. The main difficulty is knowing how to block lemmings at the start without using too many skills. But... it's also possible to climb between towers.

400 metres 20 : Intended solution. Yes, that's right, it looks a bit like POOR WEE CREATURES (from OL), a level that I found difficult at the time... :scared:

400 metres 21 and 22 : Intended solution. Well done !

400 metres 23 : Intended solution, or close. I don't know if it's possible to solve the level more easily. Ah ! I just fixed the "false steel" issue for the next update.

400 metres 24 : Intended solution. Well done ! The big fish are traps/fountains, but the small fish are block. IchoTolot had already pointed out this kind of confusion in my pack : you should know that I didn't know the rules or pratices before creating these levels, and besides, I didn't expect to "publish" them one day. From now on, if I have to share other levels/packs, I will be careful. :-\ :laugh:

400 metres 25 and 26 : Intended solution. Well done !

For the Marathon rank, some levels are quite difficult. Good luck ! ;)
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: kaywhyn on March 23, 2021, 10:34:54 PM
Marathon rank completed, and thus the entire pack is solved. My entire replay collection for the pack is attached ;) Honestly, the Marathon levels were kind of a middle ground for difficulty, as some I found quite easy, others hard. I was definitely worried when you said that some of them are quite hard, but some of the hardest ones weren't that bad.

Spoiler

Marathon 1 - Prince of Persia As mentioned before I think it's cool how you recreated a level from the game into a Lemmings level. I learned that it's Proxima's tileset, and hence it was approved to add some of your custom stuff to it. That's really interesting using retractable floor tiles as buttons here. Difficult level to start off the rank, but only because it's quite hard to tell how the lemmings will navigate through the terrain here. It's almost like this level plays out in 3D. Then again, this is the very first level that I have ever played in this tileset, meaning I'm not used to it. I'm sure it'll get better over time. That sharp teeth door trap is quite gory and took me by complete surprise.

Marathon 2 - Aqualand Harder than I thought it was going to be. Lots of things caught me off guard here. Some things here seem very precise. Knowing myself, my solution is fiddly and messy and there are easier solutions.

Marathon 3 - Le morpion piege Somewhat a harder repeat, just by the lower quantities of each skill. I ended up figuring out this one much faster than the original. Still a nice one, though.

Marathon 4 - Parcours-Puce Difficult one, especially with figuring out how to work with the two worker lemmings. Fortunately the platformers are very easy to figure out. I say the hardest part is figuring out how to isolate two worker lemmings and the section right after getting the button.

Marathon 5 - Porte close chez le Sheriff Difficult one as well. Navigating through the odd terrain is not easy at all. I kept trying things that would almost work but they ultimately don't. Great design, though.

Marathon 6 - Retour au XVe siecle For sure a harder repeat of Renaissance. It's all about using your builders/platformers wisely so that you can still get through the level. I figured out the right side quickly, using jumpers to get the button and back instead of using constructive skills. The jumpers to do so are a bit heavy on the precision, though. Perhaps you can relax the precision a bit? I probably could had made releasing the crowd easier had I mined more carefully at the start.

Marathon 7 - Une houleuse aventure Semi-worthless repeat, as I feel this has already been done before, since I think I might had played a version of this level requiring this before. I might be remembering wrong, though. It might also be possible to do it on the Taxing version of OL. The solution is quite obvious. The only hard part is digging and bashing far away enough to give the worker enough time to build up to the exit platform.

Marathon 8 - En apesanteur Difficult but a very nice one! :thumbsup: Certainly the most difficult was figuring out how to get the lemmings where they need to be so that they don't get trapped up at the top due to gliding and the updrafts. Turns out I kept doing things incorrectly with the right-most lemming. It's still a difficult one to figure out considering the extremely limited skillset.

Marathon 9 - Soleil d'hiver Breather level. The only hard part is timing the workers so that one of them can collect the bomber pickup. That's really cool using the Sun as a trap here :crylaugh: Really nice background.

Marathon 10 - Soucoupes violentes Difficult but excellent level! :thumbsup: Another favorite of mine. I figured out the building for the bottom lemming to shimmy across fairly quickly. The part that stumped me was the bottom being able to hoist himself up. Turns out I was a dummy as I kept using a digger to do so. A basher needs to be used instead, and hence simply needed to trade places with the digger and the basher.

Marathon 11 - Nuit cauchemardesque Breather level. I don't know what the figure is supposed to represent here. In general, I'm not a fan of the silhouette lemming sprites, as it makes it very difficult to tell how to assign skills. Even worse is how you cannot tell which ones are athletes because no color shift happens.

Marathon 12 - Miam miam ! Difficult one, although I kept trying messy things that wouldn't work, especially at the start with trying to save lemmings from falling into the chocolate water. Kept using a non-swimmer to bomb through walls instead of using when it's easier to use a swimmer instead. It's quite obvious that you need to go through the bottom, as there's absolutely no way to get higher at all. It's the execution that is difficult.

Marathon 13 - Le palais de la reine 11 Certainly a bit harder than some of the previous iterations. I have a climber leftover, so maybe a backroute?

Marathon 14 - Halloween O.o nicely done with the autumn night sky and changing leaf colors to represent the special occasion. Difficult one, although I certainly kept overthinking the solution here. Turns out you're not supposed to completely bridge the first gap the crowd gets to, as that can be used to dispose of the zombies. I'm guessing the extra tools are to simply help with the timing, as sometimes you might be too early and hence can delay with them for a bit.

Marathon 15 - Mission secrete au Sahara Somewhat difficult, although the only hard part is making a splatform for the crowd on the right side. Looks like the fall is fatal by a single pixel. I think that's really cool with how you can actually see the the teleporting and how it quickly goes up. However, the teleporter and receiver look identical here, so there should definitely be some kind of maybe verbal cue so that you know which is which. In most tilesets, designers use the words "in" and "out" for that.

Marathon 16 - Morts vs Vivants If I'm not mistaken, the level title translates as "Dead vs the Living"? Much harder repeat of the original, as this one took me quite a while. Not only is there less lemmings than the original, it seems the zombie distribution is more even here. The key is to take advantage of a gap between zombies that's much larger than the others. The timing here to squeeze in between is difficult, and the solution is quite timing heavy and fiddly.

Marathon 17 - Souk Another favorite of mine! :thumbsup: It's a difficult one only because it's not obvious where any skills go. I really like the solution, though. Mining in such a way that the lemming can climb back out after collecting the basher pickup, dropping a stoner on the other side to extend a basher, and cloning a climber/glider so that you can build to the pillar from the right side for him to climb up and glide to the platform above to get the last button. Well done ;)

Marathon 18 - Cyber-machin-truc Nicely designed level. Difficult one. Since this is another new custom tileset where I have never played any levels in, it's all about familiarizing oneself with the custom objects and tileset. I mistook the large red rectangular things for buttons when they're actually traps, similar to the airlock trap from the Space tileset.

Marathon 19 - L'amulette Huge builderfest, although it's somewhat of a breather due to how there's only 1 lemming to work with here. The level's still difficult, though. It's not obvious at all how many builders it takes to get up to the structure, since it's very high up and far from where you start. The structure in the level is nice, though.

Marathon 20 - Les 4 clefs d'Anubis Not a bad level by any means, but a really good example of a level that's frowned upon by most in this community due to hidden traps/pickups. I probably sounded more annoyed than I needed to be in my LP, but just to let you know I don't mind hidden stuff, as long as there is some kind of visual clue as to their locations. Of course, as I have pointed out before, I could had simply activated CPM to make my life much easier on this level, but as I generally prefer not to, this ended up being a treasure hunt. Now, there are some visual cues, but they can easily be mistaken for decoration or even that's a natural feature of the tiles/terrain. Also, you mixed up buttons here, where it has already been established that the ankhs are the buttons, but you also mixed it with a heart, again it could had easily been mistaken for decoration. I definitely don't understand why it suddenly appears at the top of the level after you reach it. Of course, the dead giveaway was when I bashed and it wasn't destroyed as I thought it would be.

Again, it's not a bad level, just could be made better by not having the hidden stuff or by making their locations more obvious.

Marathon 21 - Y en a qu'ont essaye... Breather level. Nothing too hard about this.

Marathon 22 - Vestiges mayas Difficult but a great one. I say the hardest part is figuring out how to get the basher pickup. Certainly the hardest part is figuring out how to use your builders wisely. In earlier attempts, I would had been several builders short. I was a dummy on the left side and unnecessarily wasted builders.

Marathon 23 - Le tombeau du Pharaon Another favorite of mine ;) The trick with bashing and using a nearby stoner to bridge the gap to keep the basher going is very clever. Beating the clock was satisfying here. Can be difficult, but it's not that bad at all. I kept trying to release the lemmings trapped at the bottom as early as possible when you can simply make them floaters at first and then make them climbers whenever the path is close to being ready.

Marathon 24 - La crypte Difficult one. Hardest parts were be to get to the button and back without wasting any skills, as well as getting up to the exit. Turns out I missed the trick of using a climber to bomb to get higher than you can normally achieve with builders alone.

Marathon 25 - Jeu de piste morbide Another difficult one but a very good one! :thumbsup: Another favorite of mine despite being a huge builderfest. I absolutely love the puzzle of figuring out the order of getting the pickups and figuring out which athlete skill to apply to which after cloning. It's almost like solving a level with two hatches, one which is a preassign swimmer and climber, the other just a climber. Certainly a lot of things can go wrong here if you're not careful, and I wasn't :crylaugh: It's definitely nowhere near the hardest level of the rank or of the pack, though. There are some Marathon levels and levels in other ranks far harder than this.

Marathon 26 - Le palais de la reine 12 Finally, to close off the rank and the level pack, the 12th and final iteration of a level that appears twice in each rank throughout the whole pack. As a result, it was very easy to expect this as the final level, since the pattern holds up throughout the entire pack. Certainly not the hardest level of the pack for the final level. Honestly, I was expecting a 1 minute time limit, since some of the previous iterations had a 1 minute time limit. I think this would had made it feel more of a final level kind of thing ;) The only hard part is timing the climbers and building in such a way so that you can catch the climbers after they make it past the builder first.   

Quote from: David on March 22, 2021, 05:48:54 PM
400 metres 23 : Ah ! I just fixed the "false steel" issue for the next update.

Oh yes, thanks for this, as I wanted to remind you in the feedback, but it's clear that you've already seen my LP. I found it super odd, especially since I haven't seen any case where the steel can be destroyed in New Formats NL.

Quote
Spoiler

400 metres 24 : Intended solution. Well done ! The big fish are traps/fountains, but the small fish are block. IchoTolot had already pointed out this kind of confusion in my pack : you should know that I didn't know the rules or pratices before creating these levels, and besides, I didn't expect to "publish" them one day. From now on, if I have to share other levels/packs, I will be careful. :-\ :laugh:

Ah, yes, good point! ;)



Overall, excellent work with the pack, especially with many of the designs! :thumbsup: It's very clear that you put in a lot of effort to make the levels very visually appealing, and you certainly have a very high taste in artistic quality. It was quite satisfying from start to finish figuring out all the various challenges throughout the pack, and I've enjoyed it a lot. I certainly had my moments of being a dummy on many of the levels, but ah those eureka moments on many hard levels were a great feeling. Of course, I think you have seen that I have solved not only a lot of level packs, but also some of the hardest difficult level packs, including United, Lemmings Plus Alpha, SEB Lems, and Lemmings Open Air.

Have fun fixing the backroutes, and I definitely look forward to more content from you if you decide to make more levels or another level pack :thumbsup: Keep up the great work.
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: David on March 24, 2021, 08:59:33 PM
Thanks kaywhyn, I'm glad you liked this pack (though, I'm sorry to have exhausted you ! :laugh:), I really like following your reasoning in LP, I find you very patient and very talented, you know how to solve complicated problems quickly, even if, sometimes, you get stuck on "simple" problems ;P. Well done ! I'm appreciative ! :thumbsup:

My feedback on the Marathon rank :
Spoiler
Marathon 1 : Proxima created this tileset with the tiles from Prince of Persia. Having played this game a lot as a child, I myself wanted to create a level with this tileset, even if, I admit, it's difficult to find your way on these platforms in 3D. :P

Marathon 2 : Alternative solution. There is a slightly easier way to achieve this level (my replay attached).

Marathon 3 : Perfect ! There are plenty of possible paths ; you can solve this level without using all the skills.

Marathon 4 : Bravo ! You can do it more simply at the beginning by having a single worker to do it and, therefore, save more skills. ;P

Marathon 5 : Perfect ! Intended solution, although the stacker is not useful for accessing the button.

Marathon 6 : Little backroute : 2 builders removed in the next update. In fact, in the intended solution, you have to use another path. :lem-shocked:

Marathon 7 and 8 : Intended solution. Well done !

Marathon 9 : Good ! But initially, the intended solution use a glider and a floater. I removed one skill glider and one skill floater in the next update... I often tend to offer too many skills when creating levels. It's silly ! :forehead:

Marathon 10 : Bravo !

Marathon 11 : Backroute : I reworked this level for the next update. :forehead:

Marathon 12 : Well done, but the intended solution was easier, perhaps : it's possible to block the crowd (my replay attached).

Marathon 13 and 14 : Bravo ! Intended solution.

Marathon 15 : Nice alternative solution, simpler but riskier than the one intended. Regarding teleporters/receivers, I think I created the elevator before the existence of IN and OUT. :D

Marathon 16 : Bravo !

Marathon 17, 18 and 19 : Bravo ! Intended solution.

Marathon 20 : I understand the remarks/criticisms, but I like this level different from the others, although I know that this kind of fantasy must be exceptional. I also find it interesting to get players to think differently ! With the advice of IchoTolot, however, I simplified this level to prevent players who don't know Egyptian numbers from being too "confused": the 4 keys are visible and the blocks-symbols to be dug are indicated on both sides. other of the entrance, in order. :P
And I made custom buttons (specially for this level !) : when you pick up a key or the heart, it immediately appears in the reliquary above the exit. You must therefore "fill" the reliquary to unlock the exit, that is to say, find the 4 keys and the heart. Logical ! :laugh:

Marathon 21 : Well done !

Marathon 22 :  Nice alternative solution.

Marathon 23 : Perfect !

Marathon 24 : Nice alternative solution without using the glider (my replay attached).

Marathon 25 and 26 : Intended solution. Well done !

***

So, I decided to do a lot of small updates. It must be said that I have two bad habits :
1) When a skill is used a lot in a level, I very often round up to a higher number divisible by 5. For example, I will put 20 builders while the resolution of the level only requires 17. :forehead:
2) I often add unnecessary skills, but I realize that players use them to solve levels more easily (backroutes !). :-[

In this pack, the levels using OL's designs were created a long time ago ; therefore, some of this puzzles aren't very interesting ! Also, there're some levels that I had to transform because they used rising water and radiation/glaciation ; these changes weren't easy to make.

Here are the fixes made in the new update :
Spoiler
Morning walk 6 : steel and hole added.
Morning walk 9 : 2 builders removed.
Fast walk 5 : one builder removed.
Fast walk 10 : obstacle added to avoid "Dolly Dimple" trick.
Fast walk 22 : a hole added (to keep the same "design" as the level 400 meters 6).
Running 12 : some skills removed.
Running 16 : one basher removed.
Running 18 : the climber removed.
Running 23 : stoppers, one miner and one digger removed, one steel added.
100 metres 6 : one trap added.
100 metres 11 : one builder and one stoner removed.
100 metres 15 : time reduced to 1 minute.
100 metres 21 : one builder and 5 jumpers removed.
100 metres 24 : one pillar added.
400 metres 3 : 30 builders and 10 bashers removed.
400 metres 6 : the digger removed and hole added.
400 metres 7 : unlock button added.
400 metres 16 : some skills changed.
400 metres 23 : bug fixed (fake steel has become real steel).
Marathon 6 : 2 builders removed.
Marathon 9 : one floater and one glider removed.
Marathon 11 : some skills changed and owa right added.
Marathon 15 : the stoner removed, one stacker added.
Marathon 21 : 5 plateformers and one digger removed.
Marathon 22 : 3 builders removed.
Marathon 24 : 2 builders removed.
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: kaywhyn on March 24, 2021, 09:55:22 PM
Glad you enjoyed my LP of your pack, David! :thumbsup: I apologize for the extremely long lengths of many of the videos, though. I'm one of those people where I if I'm on a roll with solving several levels in a row, I generally keep the momentum going. However, this has the drawback in that I would be doing good on time, decide to tackle another, only to find that I'm on a level that manages to give me a hard time. Quite often, it's difficult to tell if a level is going to be difficult just based on the preview screen.

Also thank you for the replays. Indeed, your solutions on the 3 levels you attached are so much easier than mine :XD: Many of your levels may be small, but they're deceptively difficult for the most part. Plenty of them had me going, "I'm a skill short" :laugh:


Quote from: David on March 24, 2021, 08:59:33 PM
Thanks kaywhyn, I'm glad you liked this pack (though, I'm sorry to have exhausted you ! :laugh:), I really like following your reasoning in LP, I find you very patient and very talented, you know how to solve complicated problems quickly, even if, sometimes, you get stuck on "simple" problems ;P. Well done ! I'm appreciative ! :thumbsup:

Don't be, it's not your fault :P It's just that I've been playing so many difficult packs/levels lately and been recording a lot of LP videos of me solving that I generally burn myself out, when I've told myself that I could definitely take it slower on the uploading of videos and also take my time with going through a level pack. If anything, these levels were a good kind of challenging, and I love a good challenge with the many difficult levels in this pack ;)

Thanks for the compliments! :thumbsup: Indeed, you'll be amazed at how even the simplest of things can sometimes go over one's head and unnoticed for a while and when you finally do realize the linchpin that can help you solve a level, then as a solver you wonder why you didn't "see" it before/earlier. I was a dummy on so many of the levels here, but hey, there'll always be levels like that when one is solving :laugh: Again, I think the big reason why I was able to get through your pack is simply due to all the training/experience I've gained from playing and solving so many level packs, including some of the hardest ones currently available. I also like to think that I've always had this natural puzzle solving mentality, especially since I first played Lemmings when I was maybe around 6 or 7. 
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: Swerdis on September 28, 2023, 05:27:40 PM
Don't know if David is still active in the forums, but since I'm playing through the pack right know, here are my comments.

First some generals remarks: I can honestly say that I hardly played through a pack that is visually as appealing as your pack is. "Art Lems" comes to mind, "Lemmings World Tour" has its moments as well, but "The lemmings have grown" definitely plays in the same league. I must confess that I always priorize  puzzle quality over visual quality - but it's never a bad thing when the latter is great, too. Having said this, the puzzles are really good as well. I say this with caution as I'm only at the beginning of the third rank so far. I like that you play the entire keyboard of possibilities. I often associate specific tricks with specific level-authors as they make use of these tricks frequently. At this point of time, I can't say that about you - because of the variety. It can be noticed, however, that your pack is pretty hard from the beginning. I'm not so sure how the difficulty-curve will develop, though. I felt that the second rank was slightly easier compared to the first one. The only thing I don't like is the absence of custom music and the presence of the standard rotation. I know I could simply download a custom music pack. But there's one rule I follow: I always play a pack with the intended music, that's a question of respect to the designer for me.

Now we go into detail:

Spoiler


Morning walk

1 - Demi-Tour
Not at all trivial for the first level of a pack. But as a level-solver with some experience it wasn't that hard for me.

2 - Banlieue in London
Probably the most difficult  level of the entire rank and therefore not positioned very well - unless you really planned to place a real obstacle this early in the pack. For a long time I thought I had to free the rightmost blocker with the blocker and save the other ones from this side. But it didn't work, among other things because it's much harder to turn a left-orientated builder directly into a miner compared to a Lemming that builds to the right. Don't understand me wrong: It IS a good level, but very hard for its position.

3 - Au pays d'Aladdin
Easy one. I only used three of the skills, so I don't know if that's really intended.

4 - Dans un salon bourgeois

I like the theme of this level. Harder than the one beforde, but nothing too bad. Didn't use the floaters here. Moreover, I have a special affinity for Two-Lemming-Levels and playing this level, I know why.

5 - Chimie de laboratoire

A demanding one. I like the use of the walker here which gives the pioneer a head start to bash thorugh the final obstacle.

6 - AU SECOURS !!!

A nice variation of "Come on over to my place" from the original Lemmings. I'm generally not the biggest fan of these rebuilds, but at least it was a good challenge. Took me a while.

7 -  DIABLE qu' il fait chaud !!!

Very easy level - the easiest so far. It's just about how to isolate one Lemming and giving him a head start.

8 - Iznogoud

Easy  as well. The trickiest part was to avoid the Zombie and get rid of him.

9 - Épopée cathare

I had my problems with this one. Until I realized that it's possible to mine at the place I did, without creating a hole unintentionally.

10 - Le blizzard

A very easly level as long as one is familiar with the trick that is key here: Cancelling a digger with a miner.

11 - Rien ne sert de courier...

Just a question of how to delay the second Lemming to build without accident over the gap and hurriying up because of the time-limit to reach the exit. Easy.

12 - Le grand plongeon

This is where the fun ends ;) A huge step in diffuculty, but a fantastic level as well. In my opionion this level is relatively backroute-free, the steps have to be done in the exact order - otherwise the player fails. It's a bit of an optical illusion as well since it seems unlikely that a glider can safely land on a bridge here. I'm really impressed with that one.

13 - Dans le palais de la reine 1

The palace of the queen - the first one of many. Probably the easiest of them all, but really a good puzzle!

14 - Bonds et rebonds

A very special level and one that is much harder than it looks. It's not just funny, mindless jumping from wall to wall since the jumpers are scarce. You need them all.

15 - Seuls sur la lune

Tricky one! Didn't realize for a long time, that the crowd can't pass the robot to the left - I thought it belonged to the background. And finally I made this level totally a matter of timing which wasn't really necessary. Took long time to make everything work.

16 - Mosaiques sur roche

Could cause problems probably. But I was on the right track here from the beginning, so this one was a quick solve.

17 - Soyons solidaires !

Kaywhyn was a bit harsh here with you. But as I understood he played this level with the exact same solution before. I didn't. So this visually familiar level felt fresh for me solution-wise. And wasn't trivial to figure out.

18 - Orpiment

Yellow is my favourite colour, so I like this level even because of that. I chose a pretty straightforward approach here which turned out to work. To release the crowd I had to mine down in front of the exit, though.

19 - Tapis roulant

I thought these treadmills here would cause me problems. But it wasn't the case, actually I breezed through this level once I found out how to trap the crowd.

20 - Bonshommes des neiges

A huge roadblock for me and a really ingenious level. The middle-entrance is the trickiest one. It's hard to find a way to delay the Lemmings to build the bridge in time. And it's tempting to use the first lemming from the right to let him climb and activate the button. Which must not be done!

21 - Le Saut

I've seen three different solutions here by Icho, Kaywhyn and myself. Just like Icho, I avoided the blocker which I consider a red herring.

22 - Sur les rocs et les monts

A welcome breather at the right point of time. Nothing special here, this is a very straight-forward level.

23 - Objectif Terre

Looks intimidating because of almost no terrain. But in the end, this one wasn't too bad. The final part was the hardest - to make sure that everybody is landing safe.

24 - Oasis

Looks easier than it is: It's clear that the pioneer has to rescue the crowd from the other side of the palm tree, but since no skills can be wasted here, this one wasn't a cakewalk.

25 - L'ile au tresor

Another roadblock. Kaywhyn warned me from playing the impossible version from an earlier version of the pack. But it was my own fault - I overlooked bombing through the plant beneath the exit for a long time.  Avoiding the Zombie in the end wasn't that hard.

26 - Dans le palais de la reine 2

Great version of this level. It's tempting to save the two Lemmings from the left hatch by building a bridge to the passage - but it doesn't work. You really have to think outside the box here.

All my solutions can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/@Swerdis (https://www.youtube.com/@Swerdis)



Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: Swerdis on September 30, 2023, 09:50:42 AM
When I created my last post, I had already played through the next rank - so here is my assessment. As I stated, I found "Fast Walk" to be a tad easier compared to the first rank.

Spoiler


Fast walk

1 - Sonic

A bit of a platforming-fest. Not overly complicated, but also not trivial. How to turn around the Lemming in the end after he exits the teleporter is the trickiest part.

2 - A bonds saccades

One of my favourites from the rank. Looks easy, but it's definitely not. For a long time I tried to dig to the button from the top, but that didn't lead to anything good.

3 - Le desintegrateur de lemmings

Reminded me of a level from the Tame-rank of ONML. These tame-levels are a weak spot for me since they were so easy and therefore didn't get stuck in my head. Anyway, a very easy level.

4- La peste verte

That's also true with this one. Nice use of the fencer here who creates the path to the exit and frees the crowd at the same time.

5 - Le grand toboggan

Things are ramping up a bit here. It was quite tricky to trap everyone here so that no one gets lost and to ensure the the builder has enough time to cross the gap. As I used the basher during the first part, I had to use the miner-cancels-miner-trick in the end. Additionaly, I saved a builder.

6 - Morts-vivants

Back to the easier side. One Lemming sacrifices himself to build the stack to contain the zombies. Another one platforms over them. Perfect.

7 - Une jungle tranquille

Very, very demanding. The big question here is how to reach the button and still save this Lemming - which seems pretty impossible with the small number of terrain-removing skills. It's by no means obvious that he can walk up the tree - but he can. Totally different solution by Kaywhyn who went through the bottom-part.

8 - Une chaleureuse chaumière

Another favourite of mine. Took me quite some time and longer than I thought it would. It's pretty ingenious to place the blocker directly underneath the hatch and free him with a faller. Can't think of a different solution. Great level!

9 - En attendent quelqu'un

Easy one and a second-attempt-solve. Still a good level.

10- Nocturne au Lac Majeur

One of the most memorable levels from the rank form. It's visually nice, it plays my favourite tune and it's a good puzzle. Contrary to all the solutions I've seen I started with the five Lemmings at the right side. I even saved a bridge in the end.

11 - Une partie de morpion

Looks intimidating, but in fact, this one was one my quickest solves within the rank. It's actually about how to merge the Lemmings from the three hatches as efficient as possible.

12 - Uranus World !!!

Very easy. I saved so many skills here that I really think this must be backroute. Icho and Kaywhyn brought up very different solutions as well.

13 - Dans le palais de la reine 3

Next iteration of this level and a great one, too. However, I found this one a bit easier than the second one.

14 - 2 lemmings en desherence

For me, a new version of The Great Lemming Caper which is probably my favourite level from the Original game. Although NOTHING beats the (probably) intended version there, this one is a nice variation (which was easy to figure out).

15 - LEGO

Great visuals here. The level itself is not very complicated - as long as one is familiar with the miner/stacker-trick which is most likely needed here.

16 - Prions une main secourable !!!

A level totally based on the Dolly-dimple-trick. So if one know it, it's an easy one. Having said this, I learned the trick much later, since I solved Dolly dimple in a very different manner.

17 - Tour de maître

A repeat of the first level of this pack, this one looked much harder than it actually was. Kaywhyn solution was a bit different from mine - so it seems there's even room for variaton.

18 - Forêt Noire

Certainly a roadblock for me. These timing-based levels are not my biggest strength and therefore I tried a lot of things here which all didn't work. Finally I found a solution which is different from Icho's and Kaywhyn's.

19 - Toile d'araignée

Another repeat from the original game. Took me while. Hardest part was to ensure a safe landing - when I swapped the digger with the bomber it worked suddenly. Like that one.

20 - Un séjour en Enfer

Generally a bit of a breather. Two tricky parts here: The Dolly-Dimple-Trick in the beginning and the necessarity of bridge-stretching - otherwise the player is one bridge short.

21 - Le Roi des neiges

The solution might be a bit obvious, but this is still a favourite of mine. Precision is key here, especially with the building part. I saved on miner here.

22 - Randonée nordique

Probably the easiest level of the rank. I went through the bottom most of the time and therefore saved miner and digger.

23 - Sang de feu

Absolutely great! The placement of the builder-pick-up is devilish. It's a Red Herring, but it doesn't look like one since it's reachable. But if you do, there's no way back. My other problem was that I bashed too high at the bottom so I couldn't bridge the gap with the platformer.

24 - Par-dessus les toits

Repeat from the original game and probably my least favourite of them within this rank. Too much building and the way to go is pretty obvious. Easy level, though.

25 - Une prison marmoréenne

I thought I would have a hard time with this level, but it wasn't the case fortunately. The time-limit can be a big problem here and makes some ideas impossible that would otherwise work with the skillset given.

26 - Dans le palais de la reine 4

For my taste the hardest of the four iterations thus far. The use of the first basher is surprising as well as the fact that the upper exit is not the way to go. Good one!

All my solutions can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/@Swerdis
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: Swerdis on September 30, 2023, 10:06:24 AM
And we move on to the third rank.

Spoiler

Running

1 - L'Académie des 9

I normally don't like disjoint unions and here are even nine of them. This made the level a bit confusing at first, but since eight of the isolated Lemmings work (and sacrifice themselves) for a higher goal, it wasn't that bad. That level is a bit playing by itself since there are not my possibilities what to do next and therefore not many dead-ends.

2 - Acrobates

This one nearly brought me to the brink of desparation. I figured it out. Really, I thought, no I KNEW the solution, but it always failed because of one small detail. The digger had to stop at the steel plate, so there's absolutely no way to guarantee the Lemmings from the hatch a safe landing. So I was sure I had to play with the Release Rate to solve this level. But how long it took me to get it right - don't ask me...

3 - Dans un vaisseau spatial

Love this level. The positions of the steel plates make every simple solution impossible. Kaywhyn said that he had a hard time with this level for  - amongst other things -  he wasn't sure whether to clone the miner or the builder. I strangely didn't have this problem - since in cases of doubt, I always think of the miner first which brought me on the right track here. The rest fell into place right soon - so as much as I like this level, it wasn't a difficult one for me.

4 - La lac

Ridiculously easy one. Don't know what the gilder and floater are good for. Apart from the time-limit, there's no big challenge here.

5 - Espace en distorsion

Not very complicated as well. It's a bit try and error at first, but once you know where the teleporters go and which one must be used in the end, it's obvious how to use the five bridges.

6 - Un forage original

A nuke-solution came to my mind immediately - and a nuke-solution it was. When I started playing NeoLemmix, this level would have caused me major problems. But things improve over time...

7 - Les 3 foreurs

Wow, that's really a nice version of the Hero-Time-level. There's no leeway at all in positioning the first two diggers. That's normally a point of criticism, but here's it's specified by the layout of the original level. Nice work!

8- Planeurs à la dérive

Hard one. Tried to build the bridge from the bottom to the left as a splatform, but it failed by one step. Took me long time to see that the splatform must be built from a different spot.

9 - Les marche de l'invisible

Quite an easy one. Since I was a walker short during my first attempts, I decided to build a splatform with my surplus builder instead of using another blocker (which I wouldn't have to release). Icho solved it differently, though.

10 - Architecture de fantaisie

Again, an easy but very nice one. Since I was able to isolate a worker Lemming, I don't see the purpose of the two climbers, though. Maybe they are supposed to lead on the wrong path ;)

11 - Sur la banquise

One is tempted to immediately turn the first Lemming around (with building into the ground) to save these from the hatch as soon as possible. But in this case, the bridge will be missed in the end. Five losses are allowed for a reason here. Nice and not overly hard level.

12 - Scenario de film d'horreur

It's really horror, that level. With the reduction of the number of builders by the factor of ten, this one is WAY too hard for it's position and even for the rank. There's no good puzzle here, it's just about maxing out the NeoLemmix-mechanics to the extreme - with no leeway at all. Sorry, not a good level.

13 - Dans le palais de la reine 5

Can be tricky, but it's really just a matter of delaying the Lemmings from the left hatch and then finding the most efficient path to the exit.

14- Shinto

Love it! One of the best levels in the entire pack so far. Especially the way to get to the button is magnificient.

15- Les hieroglyphes mystérieuses

Is much harder than it looks actually. Trickiest part is to avoid having the Lemmings caught in a loop when the exit is open. Seems like there are several solutions here.

16- Le Pont des Soupirs

Had issues loading this level since a piece was missing. Kaywhyn helped me out of this situation. While this level looks beautiful indeed, the solution feels a bit hackish - as do the other solutions I've seen (they all are quite similar and vary only in details).

17- La Princesse au petit pois

Very nice and not too difficult one. It requires a bit timing to bring exactly two Lemmings into the pit. Also, I initially placed the digger to reach the cloner wrong - so that the cloned basher didn't stop later. Once I fixed this, I got the solution.

18- Hansel et Gretel

Tricky level and another one that seems to be adjusted by David. When I compared my solution to Icho's and Kaywhyn's I was surprised they had a climber available. That made both of their solutions pretty different. It's a good level. The only thing I don't like is the final bridge around the corner. That's because the blocker has to be placed in a way that he can later be freed and turned around by the two walkers without falling off the bridge. To accomplish that, the Lemming who is supposed to be the blocker has to arrive at an opportune moment. In case of the wrong point of time he will always either crash or the builder will build through the blocker. This was hard to manage.

19- La bibliothèque du chateau

A welcome breather after the level before. The only hard part was how to prevent the crowd from walking back to the entrance and thus, how to solve the level in time. Didn't really know that a Lemming could build a full bridge out of a 1-pixel-digger-hole. But yeah, it worked.

20 - Nuit d'etoiles

Another easy one, though it looks a bit intimidating at first. A lot of skills are not necessary, though.

21 - Luminaires

Just like Icho, I neither used the pick-up-skill nor went I through the one-way-wall. Still a different solution. I like the chandeliers here.

22 - Cache-cache

Not many problems here. Key is the climber here which is a Red-Herring-skill in my opinion and must not be assigned to any of the two Lemmings.

23 - La prison d'Andromède

The two blockers have been removed here which makes the level an extra challenge. It's one of the kind I'm not particularly good at, but with a bit of try and error it was doable.

24 - Dos crawle

Had a hard time with this one until I realized that it's possible to stop the Lemmings going right without the use of a blocker. From that point onwards the level was easy as I had figured out the rest of the solution before.

25 - Dos crawle

Very nice level! I was a such a dummy here since I overlooked the purpose of the climber and the glider completely. In fact, it's the only viable way to turn a Lemming around.

26 - Dans le palais de la reine 6

Not the hardest iteration of this level to finish off the rank. At this point of time, we know our Red-Herring-pick-ups. It's obvious that the additional builder is unreachable.

Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: kaywhyn on October 09, 2023, 11:46:52 PM
@Swerdis

I'm just posting to let you know that Running 12 in its current form is possible. I wasn't even aware that the level was changed since the time I LPed the pack. Like you, I was nearly convinced it wasn't possible with just half the amount of builder pickups because I felt like I needed at least two extra builders, but no, it is solvable but just barely. At least in my solution, it requires a lot of precision. So, rest assured David didn't make a mistake for the level, though honestly I would provide a couple of extra builders, as they don't seem to break or cheese the level in any way.

Also I know you don't want any since you're that kind of solver like me, but I'll spoiler tag the hints just in case. They're major ones so proceed with caution.

Spoiler

Use 5 builders for the left side and only two builders to release the neutral. Also hit the left button first before doing the rest of the level.
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: Swerdis on October 18, 2023, 08:48:56 PM
Thanks for your help. Still couldn't solve the level, but I skipped it for the moment. Next problem: I can't play Running 16 cause it seems like some pieces are missing. That's strange since I downloaded the "davidz styles" file before I started the pack. And I did it again, but it changed nothing. Some advice?
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: kaywhyn on October 18, 2023, 11:23:00 PM
@Swerdis

Hey Swerdis, no problem at all. Running 12 is quite a toughie now. Still not spoilery, but the spoiler tag simply tells you how many builders to use on both sides, so opening it will reveal the exact numbers, nothing else. Meaning, it doesn't say how it should be done. There's one more hint after that, but it relates to the buttons. For that one, it reveals specifically which one to go for first, but I think you managed to deduce which one it must be.

As for Running 16, check your PMs, I sent you the missing files.
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: ericderkovits on October 19, 2023, 05:35:18 AM
Solved Running 12

Don't like the level, too precise
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: Swerdis on November 04, 2023, 02:17:34 PM
Started the 4th rank today, so this will be completed over time.

Spoiler

100 metres

1 - Il neige...

Brilliant level in my opinion. I'm suprised that I didn't have many problems here. Solutions differ a bit though while Icho's probably the intended one. I also like the title in all its laconicism.

2 - Comme Tarzan...

Very easy level and a builderfest. The only tricky part is how to not run out of bashers, but even that is actually quite obvious.

3 - Peur pourpre

Another easy one. My solution is pretty much timing-based, but I think it has to be like this.

4 - Maison hantée

Deceivingly difficult level. None of the obvious ways work. Luckily I learned the bashing-trick early while solving "Cavern of Chills" in Lemmings Plus 1. Even with this knowledge it was tricky to find the appropriate distances between the Lemmings.

5 - Le parc d'attraction

Hard level. My solution is closer to Kaywhyn's than Icho's though not quite identical. I wonder if David adjusted the level a bit since in my case I found it impossible to mine out the upper neutral crowd directly - even with two bombers at the wall. I had to blow up the shimmier.

6 - Une escalade coopérative

Favourite of mine! After trying to brute-force this level (which didn't work) I eventually found the solution which is really elegant. A very well-thought level.

7 - Comme un poisson dans l'eau

Much easier than the previous three. I overlooked that they are preassigned swimmers at first, but once I realized that they only tricky part was to get the crowd out of the water.

8 - Renaissance

This is a classic worker-Lemming-level from a kind which is pretty rare nowadays. This was a bit irritating at first since I thought there must be more behind it - but it's actually not.  Because of the few terrain-removing-skills, this level is still not a cakewalk. It's clear that the upper route is the way to go here.

9 - Les temps modernes

These gears - or "tooth wheels" as we call them in German ;) - are somewhat of a pain here because of all these tiny gaps, but the provided skills are more than enough to construct a route to the exit. An open-ended level and also a bit of a breather.

10 - L' énigme des Pharaons

The solution here caught me a bit by surprise. I thought all of the gliders and floaters had to be used here. But eventually it dawned to me that especially the Floaters are without any purpose. Tricky level in my opinion.

11 - Chevauchée forestière

Another level that has been altered. I found this one hard, not so much the left, but the right side. Building up with only four builders (instead of five) was a real challenge.

12 - Salle de bal

Relatively easy, but a very, very nice level. Fortunately, I'm quite familiar with the main trick here. Biggest problem: I tried to solve the level from the wrong side at first.

13 - Dans le palais de la reine 7

To be honest, probably the easiest of all iterations of this level so far. Not much of a problem here.

14 - Stalactites

A breather as well. Using stacks is the only possibility to reach the narrow gap, I guess

15 - Petit Ponts

A huge time-cruncher. I almost did it without the swimmer, but couldn't make it on time this way. So I changed my strategy a bit, but it was still very close. Great level, though - especially since there's always action in different parts of the scenery.

16 - Sable chaud

Hard level. I tried to force a right-exit-solution, but it failed by one Lemming, no matter what I did. I must say the solution is pretty ingenious, but it took me long time to figure it out.

17 - Parcours accrobranche

Looks easier than it actually is. An extra-builder must be saved somewhere and I did this in the beginning by building over the gap and stopping the digger at the same time (with one bridge). Once I found that out, the rest was no problem anymore.

18 - Le Labyrinthe de Minos

Easy level. The trickiest part was to avoid the second climber to bump his head on the platform, so the first climber had to make an extra lap. And both still reached the exit in time though I got my apprehensions before...

19 - Le mur de briques

I thought I could send one of the climbers through the bottom, but I was wrong.  I thought both diggers had to be used at the middle block, but I was wrong, again. So it seems the proper use of the blocker is absolute key here which is hard to see and therefore makes this level a very difficult one.

20 - Double je

After some initial problems this one wasn't that bad. When I thought I had it I wasn't able to bring the climber down again - until I realized that I used the miner at the wrong place. So I swapped him with a digger.

21 - Un serpent siffle sur leur tête

I had my problems with this one. The number of jumpers has been reduced from 15 to 10, the builders from 3 to 2. There are several ways to go through the left side with the pioneer  - you can end up with 4 jumpers and no shimmiers left as well as with 2 shimmers and no jumpers. But I think at least 2 jumpers are necessary for the right side and I had to use a special trick there to make it with 2 builders only.

22 - Palais d'Orient

Much easier though a bit fiddly at times. Especially the needles trip. Also, the clone-builder must not turn around - otherwise the walkers run short.

23 - Le mot code

Easy one  - as long as one knows the key-trick here (which is one of my favourites).

24 - Blue Lagoon

Tricky one. This level does a good job in misleading the player. I thought I had to use the upper path, but it didn't work (I've seen later that Eric found a way to do it this way). Then I used a more straithforward approach. I ignored the climber-pickup as well.

25 - Boutons de rose

Huge time-cruncher. Key here is the use of the digger which makes the wall climbable for the swimmer. As well, one must not tempt to use the walker too early - i.e. to accelerate one Lemming at the top a bit. That skill should be preserved until the very end.

25 - Dans le palais de la reine 8

Nice iteration of this level, again. Not easy to figure out, that one.
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: Swerdis on November 29, 2023, 11:07:38 PM
Now that we crossed the finish line in what was the slowest 100 meters in my life, we just left the starting block of the 400-meter-race.

Spoiler

400 metres

1 - La fée Clochette

From a visual point of view, a very good-looking level. As a puzzle, I'm not so sure, though. This one felt very hackish. Still took me a while though the path was quite clear from the beginning.

2 - Au Royaume des joyaux

Looks a bit unspectacular at first, but is a very good level. I've seen several solutions here, but in my case the key was to let the pioneer turn around at the leftmost pillar first an THEN make him a climber. This saved a builder to make him stop climbing over this pillar and die - and this additional builder was necessary to build over the purple crystals from the left side (since one bridge is not enough there).

3 - Fuite d'eau

With only 20 builders and 10 bashers left, this level is significantly harder now and wasn't a cakewalk at all. In fact, I found it a real challenge to find a suitable path through all the pipes.

4 - Dare-dard

Not an easy one for me. I found it tricky to get rid of the zombies here. It's also kind of an open-ended level when I compare th solutions.

5 - Bienvenue au Parthénon

Ok, this one was a step up in difficulty. After some vain attempts I realized that the upper route for everyone is the only viable path. But then the biggest obstacle was to save the blocker. After having solved so many levels which made use of this trick, I wonder why I didn't see the solution earlier. For sure, a very decent level.

6 - Dans les steppes glacées

Basically an easy level which unfortunately includes elements I'm not particularly good at. Several solutions possible here. Having said this, it's not possible anymore to bash underneath the entire level since the gap in front of the final pile of snow is too deep now. I tried a basher-extension with a platformer there, but it didn't work.

7 - Compétences

Tricky one, especially since there is only one builder available which could be well used at two spots at least. Later I thought that the disarmer could be a red herring and I had to bash out the crowd - but I was wrong.

8 - Larmes de givre

A very easy level. Don't know if it's intended this way - if so, the basher is a red herring.

9 - Amor

Wow, that one looked intimidating at first. I had no idea how to bring a Lemming past the first gap - until it dawned on me. And then, everything fell into place somehow. Good level!

10 - L'arbre des songes

Breather level and a builderfest. I was surprised to hear the Awesome-music here for the first time in this pack. While I like this tune, I think it doesn't go very well with this tileset. The level before would have been a much better fit (just my opinion).

11 - Forêt psychédélique

This one resembles Fast walk 18 ("Forêt noir"), but I found it much easier. Almost a first-attempt-solve here. Nice visual design, though.

12 - Près du port d'Alexandrie

Easy one as long as the plays economically and doesn't waste the skills. I had six builders left in the end. There's a typo in the title.

13 - Dans le palais de la reine 9

A very easy version of this level. It's just about catching the climbers with a builder.

14 - Nougatine à gogo

One of the best from this rank so far. A very clever puzzle which forces the player to do all the steps in a particulate order. Probably backroute-proof and a fine example of great-level-making.

15 - Tic et Tac

Easy one though I was a bit stupid here in the beginning. Had my problems with the first obstacle until I realized that I wouldn't run out of miners when I use two of the three there. Nice visual design here!

16 - Temple au Tibet

Visually stunning, but the puzzle doesn't keep pace with it. It's mainly a builderfest with almost no leeway. The provided skills here have been altered significantly. There are two miners now, but no basher and fencer. Additionaly, the number of builders had been reduced from 20 to 12.

17 - Le phare

Another very easy, almost trivial level. But I must admit that it looks really fine. That's the tileset from Agony, the old Amiga game. You control an owl there - it's the same owl which flutters through this level.

18 - Mystère sous l'évier

A very nice puzzle. Contrary to Icho I did all the work with only one Lemming, starting with the right side. Thus, I was able to save the entire crowd. However, there is still one element in this level, I really can't stand. And this is the presence of the miner-cancels-miner mechanics. I don't like it since it can not be triggered reliably - it depends on the position of the first miner within its animation. As so often I tried at least half an hour to make it work and although the solution was crystal-clear. So no, not one of my favourite levels.

19 - Le Chateau Rose

Again, very nice artistry here, but an almost nonexistent puzzle. This level is very straightforward and therefore provided no big challange. If any, then the trapping of the crowd.

20 - Lavomatique

Trickier than I thought. While it was clear that I had to make a bomber hole in the wall and to build a bridge from there, I thought I had to do this with the pre-assigend climber for a long time. But this took too much time. When I found out that this is the job of the second glider, the rest of the level wasn't that hard anymore.

21 - Bonbons

Hard one. In my first attempts I tried something like Icho, but I didn't pull it off and failed. Then I decided the builder-pickups to be Red Herrings and I put my entire efforts into the left side. Biggest problem was to turn around the miner in the end since I had run out of constructive skills. But ultimately I managed to spare a platformer somehow and that was the final piece of the mosaic.

22 - E-toiles

Nice level, which is fun to play. It's a bit on the easier side since the path is strictly predetermined - except for the beginning which was the hardest part for me.

23 - Le prisonnier d'Alcatraz

For me, a hard one. This was mainly because I placed the first stacker at the wrong place so that I had to build an additional bridge from the left to make the "prisoner" pass it. Therefore, I ran out of builders.

24 - Eldorado

I really like this level. I was an idiot here because I overlooked the pillar at the right side. Thus, I thought I had to use the stacker there to prevent the digger from walking out of the level. The real use of the stacker was the hardest part to find out.

25 - À pas feutrés

Not an easy level, a specific type I'm normally not particular good at. I was not able to get rid of any of the zombies, so I had to bypass them. Very good visuals here and I also like the title of this level which fits perfectly.

26 - Das le palais de la reine 10

One of my favourite iterations of this level. This is really nice and well-hidden. Good job, here!
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: Swerdis on December 21, 2023, 07:50:37 PM
I finished the 400-meter-race and decided to run a marathon. Progress will be slow, I'm afraid, though I try my best.

Spoiler

Marathon

1 - Prince of Persia

Yeah, I remember this game from my childhood though I never played it seriously. I didn't like the time-limit which was very tight and demotivated me. This level here wasn't too bad, though. The special button-technique here irritated my at first, but I got used to to it. I think the level offers some fine optical illusions when you are familiar with the platform game. The iron gate at the top is a good example for this. I really wanted to let the pioneer just walk thorugh it - not possible in the Lemmings cosmos, of course.

2 - Aqualand

Great level! There are lots of ways which ALMOST work, but not quite. I thought I had it for several times, just to realize that I'm still an inch away. But, as I could see, there are more solutions than just one. The final part is actually the same, but the beginnings are pretty different from each other.

3 - Le morpion piège

Easy one and not much harder than its predecessor. I spared two skills, but I think this level is actually open-ended.

4 - Parcours-Puce

Looks intimidating, but is actually a very easy one, a second-attempt solve. I've seen that I could have saved one more platformer, though. There's no need for two pioneers here since the upper crowd can be released after everything else is done.

5 - Porte close chez le Sheriff

Tricky level. Hardest part was to find a way around the teleporter. I tried a lot of things here and many attempts failed by small details only. There's still more than only one solution possible.

6 - Retour au XVe siècle

Not a great puzzle, but still a demanding level. I created the path in such a way that I never had to turn a platformer into a miner - because this creates a small gap which prevents a Lemmings to walk into the opposite direction. That's when the three builders joined the game.

7 - Une houleuse aventure

Incredibly easy. There've been harder levels in the first rank of this pack

8 - En apesanteur

Beautiful level. It can be tricky due to the glider-mechanics, though - but it's actually not as hard as it looks. Don't know if the time-limit is really necessary here.

9 - Soleil d'hiver

The number of gliders and floaters has been reduced by one each. I found this level challenging. The pick-up is hard to reach, and it seems to be impossible to do so from the left side since in this case, the Lemming can't turn around and will die in the trap. Additionally, there is no way to interrupt platformers here, so two Lemmings have to do the job in a pretty creative way. The sun behind the cloud looks like a fried egg :)

10 - Soucoupes violentes

Without a doubt, the hardest level of the pack so far for me. It caused me to take a break from Lemmings over Christmas and when I came back it still took me a long time to solve it. This is a truly unique, fantastic level. Really a piece of art (in terms of the puzzle, not visually).

11 - Nuit cauchemardesque

Much easier than the previous one, but still not trivial. It's a level with free-roaming Lemmings, so it's actually key here to work with the Release Rate. The provided skills here a really tight.

12 - Miam miam !

Interesting level. I thought I would spend a lot of time here, but then it wasn't that bad. To save a platformer I tried to seal off the very small gap at the bottom-left side by placing the cloner a bit more to the left. But instead key for me was to bomb the swimmer at the right point of time so that the right-facing platformer wouldn't stop his work at the pillar.

13 - Dans le palais de la reine 11

The first level of the Queen's palace series I really had problems with. I had a strange feeling that the solution can't include the bottom of the level because of this small gap in the pillar. Don't know if it's intended, though.

14 - Halloween

Wow, that was hard one. I tried a million things to make it work. The result is not nearly as elegant as Icho's and feels pretty hackish, but hey .... a solution is a solution. Also, a nice-looking level!

15 - Mission secrète au Sahara

Very nice level here without any terrain-removing skills. I saw that the stoner had been killed in a later fix, but I think this was a good decision since this skill was superfluous here. It's not so hard to save all - although some time-critical precision is needed in the end.  I realised that the Lemmings don't just turn around when they reach the surface of the conveyor belt, but already before, while in air. Didn't know that so far.

16 - Morts vs Vivants

This one gave me knots in the brain. Different from Icho and Kaywhyn, but I think we all made use of the fact that the distribution of the zombies is not quite even. One gap is larger than the others - which explains the slow start of my replay since I was waiting for that gap.

17 - Souk

Very, very nice. Not too difficult, but not trivial either. The skills must be used wisely and can't be swapped around. For example I used a builder where the stoner belongs to which has the same effect. But then the builder was missed somewhere else. Red-herring pick up skills seem to be your specialty ;)

18 - Cyber-machin-truc

One of the levels I didn't have a clue what to do here in the beginning due to the unfamiliar tileset. I didn't even figure out where the exit is - and once I reached it, it was locked. But later I realized that the level is pretty open-ended as I had a ton of skills left.

19 - L' amulette

This must be the longest bridge I've ever built. Don't like the level for obvious reasons. It's boring to build bridges like this though I must admit that the second part of the level on the castle is more fun to play. It's the glider mechanics that make it tricky. I like how the Lemmings floats to the exit, though.

20 - Les 4 clefs d'Anubis

It took me ages to even find the climber-pickup, I still don't get the mechanics of the heart. I fully agree with kaywhyn here. All information have to be on the table at the start of the level. This excludes hidden traps as well as hidden pickups. Apart from that I had a ton of skills left in the end, so it's not a even a great puzzle. Don't like this level.

21 - Y en a qu'ont essayé...

Maybe not the most difficult level of the rank, but I like it. Especially the way the two zombies are trapped is really great. This tileset deserves more levels as well.

22 - Vestiges mayas

Very hard one which led me on the wrong path more than once. I was deeply convinced that a non-glider has to build the final bridges to the basher-pickup and the exit as I vainly tried to land on the stoner. This required a third pioneer, and I tried a lot of things to bring one over the top, but I failed. Until I found out that my first approach was the right one. Great level which is much more difficult than it looks, especially with the reduced number of bridges.

23 - Le tombeau du Pharaon

This one wasn't as bad as I thought. Didn't know what the five climbers are good for - until I saw the solutions of Kaywhyn and Icho. So I guess my solution is a bit of a backrote or at least a bit different.

24 - La crypte

Another hard one as the provided skills are scarce, especially the builders. For most of the time I wished my only glider could be at two spots at the same time. But the breakthrough was when I found a new way to reach the button - one that used up only two builders and made it still possible for the Lemming to come back. I think key here is to bring all the steps into the right order. And sometimes the levels gives hints that you are on the right track. For example the glider landing directly in the miner's tunnel right above the hatch.

25 - Jeu de piste morbide

Wow, this level had it all. A very difficult one in my opinion for many reasons. First, the order of the steps is absolutely key here, again. So although the glider and floater pickup is collected first it must not be assigned before the cloner pickup is used as we need both - a glider and floater. The glider is needed to go for the swimmer, but on his way back - even though it's tempting - he can't become the swimmer because this skill is reserved for the floater. Otherwise there's no way out after collecting the basher-pickup (only the floater can go for this). And generally spoken: Because of the huge amount of bridges there's a danger that the two Lemmings imprison themselves inadvertently. And the most devilish thing: If you place the very first bridge wrong in such a way that the upper end lies on the steel ground of the higher platform you can start over again - as in this case you would need two bashers to solve the level. That's very annoying if you realize this just before the end.

26 - Dans le palais de la reine 12

In a good Lemmings-tradition the final level of a pack is rarely the hardest, but more of a reward to have come thus far. I would say this level is not even the hardest of the Queens-palace-levels. But I expected this a bit and it's a good finish in my opinion.


Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: David on January 11, 2024, 03:03:43 AM
Hello Swerdis,
I just saw all your posts today.
And I see kaywhyn helped you and kindly answered your questions. I thank him for that. ;)
As for me, I will respond to you in a few days, time to look at your solutions.
Thank you for your interest in my level pack. 8-)
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: kaywhyn on January 11, 2024, 06:01:34 AM
Hi David,

Welcome back! :thumbsup: Yea, Swerdis was having a problem with loading Running 16, but I was able to help him resolve the issue. Even then, you might want to take a look at it, as it appears that Gigalem made an update to the fortune tileset long after you released the pack used on that level so that the giant exit you used is not included anymore but instead a way smaller version of it. That way future players won't have a problem with the level not loading because of missing objects.

Also, I've been watching Swerdis' journey through the pack and as usual I'm very impressed with his progress and many of the solutions he has found to your levels. As of now, he is now halfway through the final rank of the pack and so it likely won't be too long now until he finishes up the rest of your pack :thumbsup: I know he will be overjoyed to hear from you again too! :)

In addition, I very much enjoy reading Swerdis' feedback and it's nice to see that we agree on so many things :laugh: We have come to an agreement on a couple of things, in particular, two levels that are too difficult for their position and therefore think they can be moved to a later position in the rank:

- Morning Walk 2: It's only the second level of the pack, and it's not good to have a roadblock this early in the pack IMO, because it increases the chances of a rage quit from players and they therefore stop playing the pack altogether and hence miss out on some of the many great levels beyond it. Before I read that Swerdis also struggled with this level, I thought I was simply being a big dummy here, but nope, we agree here the level's too hard for its position. Needless to say, early roadblocks are not good for any level pack!

- Running 12: Definitely way too hard for its position now with half the number of builders that were in my version when I LPed the pack from about 3 years ago. At some point, I saw that Swerdis didn't include this level in his feedback and so I decided to inquire about it. It turns out that Swerdis thought the level wasn't possible, so I decided to take a look at the level myself, and I nearly thought the same as well, but I was able to get it solved and therefore confirm to him that you didn't make a mistake here. If you want my honest opinion, a few extra builders would probably be a good change, as I don't see them breaking the level in any way. Otherwise, consider moving the level to a later position in the rank, as in its current form it is way too difficult for its position.

Other than the issue with Running 16 and the two levels mentioned above being too difficult for their position, this is it for now. Perhaps Swerdis can look into what they can swap places with, since he's currently going through the pack and it's been a while since I last looked at the pack with fresh eyes, meaning I don't remember the levels as well as he does. Once he gives his input, I can probably say whether I agree with them before you make the change for the next update :)   
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: David on January 11, 2024, 03:15:45 PM
Hi kaywhyn,

Thank you for these explanations. When Swerdis finishes the pack, I will update my level pack.

Morning 2 : I agree, this level is way too difficult (and it's not visually pleasing :laugh:), so I'm thinking of swapping it for Running 4 (which is too easy) ! What do you think about it ?

Running 12 : I will give some additional explanations in my answers to Swerdis, but indeed, I am thinking of adding additional builders (good idea !) or changing the level completely...

I will also fix some backroutes, particularly in Fast walk 12 and Fast walk 22.

Either way, I really enjoy reading Swerdis' feedback, as much as I enjoyed yours, kaywhyn. ;)
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: Swerdis on January 11, 2024, 08:01:02 PM
Hello David,

welcome to the forum back again. I really have fun playing your pack. It's visually great and there are lot of great-puzzles here. My favourite is still Marathon 10. I'm really looking forward to your feedback.

Regarding Morning Walk, 2 I think this one could well be swapped with Running 4 as I found the latter a very easy one which wouldn't be misplaced as the second level of the entire pack.
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: David on January 12, 2024, 03:58:21 PM
QuoteI really have fun playing your pack. It's visually great and there are lot of great-puzzles here. My favourite is still Marathon 10. I'm really looking forward to your feedback.

Thanks Swerdis, it makes me happy ! ;P

As this is my first (and only) pack, I made a lot of corrections following feedback from Gronkling, IchoTolot and kaywhyn. That's why the level pack is quite uneven, not homogeneous enough : some levels in the first ranks are really difficult, and vice versa. In addition, the puzzles are very different : some levels are not very interesting (with a lot of builders, sometimes) and others have "far-fetched" solutions. Finally, a certain number of levels used features that disappeared (rising water, explode/freeze after 10 seconds), so I had to readjust them at the last moment. I will come back to this on a case by case basis.

Finally, I didn't know that you could use custom music when creating a level pack. In fact, it has already taken me a long time to understand the vocabulary associated with the Lemmings play (backroute, red harring etc.), to understand how a forum works (I'm not very good at computers !) or to understand how to create a level pack and make it available for download. So...

I made some slight modifications in 3 levels (I will update the pack when you finish everything, Swerdis ! :thumbsup:) :
- Uranus World !!! (Fast walk 12) : I removed the side towers.
- Petits ponts (100 metres 15) : I reset the timer to 1 min 15.
- Bonbons (400 metres 21) : I added a platform to avoid going to the left.

And I swapped places four levels :
- Banlieue in London (Morning world 2) <---> Le lac (Running 4)
- Scenario de film d'horreur (Running 12) <---> Une houleuse aventure (Marathon 7)

You can download my replays of the levels that gave you problems (don't hesitate to ask me if you want my solution to a level) : replays (https://mega.nz/file/jcVzgKbC#4N0alP_vaxqHPa9uMOeui1aRRuVMhnuYvUzQIoveGMg)

Here are my feedbacks (I won't go over the easy levels and those for which you found the expected solution) :

Morning walk
2 - Banlieue in London
Well done ! This was the intended solution. Indeed, the backgrounds and tiles blend together. It's not very pleasant. I agree, this level is a bit difficult for a level 2. I swapped it with Running 4.

3 - Au pays d'Aladdin
Yes, that was the intended solution.

4 - Dans un salon bourgeois
OK ! There is a simpler solution by going from the top and slowing down the second lemming (you have to make him « dig » the earthworm).
See my replay.

6 - AU SECOURS !!!
In the solution intended, we use the miner instead of the bomber.

9 - Epopee cathare
Yes. You can also use the digger instead of the stopper at the beginning. And the climber is not necessary.

12 - Le grand plongeon
THANKS ! Yes, I admit, I had fun imagining a slightly convoluted solution for this one.

21 - Le saut
In fact, the stopper is a red herring. However, the solution intended was slightly different from yours. Well done !

Fast walk
1 - Sonic
There is a much easier solution : turn the lemmings using the tree (the palm tree) so that it goes through the "IN" portal from the right.

5 - Le grand toboggan
Well done ! Using the basher this way in the beginning was a really good idea !

7 - Une jungle tranquille
Your solution is the same as what I considered. Good job.

10 - Nocturne au Lac Majeur
Nice alternative solution.

12 - Uranus World !!!
Yes, it's a backroute ! I had never considered that we could climb this way.
I just fixed the problem.

17 - Tour de maitre
Yes, several solutions are possible.

18 - Foret noire
Interesting solution. You will find attached the two solutions that I had imagined at this level, one is easy, the other difficult.
See my replays.

22 - Randonnee nordique
Nice alternative solution. In any case, the solution intended was not much more complicated either.

23 - Sang de feu
Good job ! This was the solution I had planned. The pick-up builder is truly evil !!!

Running
4 - Le lac
QuoteI don't know what the gilder and floater are for.

They are of no use. I swapped this level with Morning 2 to make the pack more balanced.

10 - Architecture de fantaisie
This is exactly the expected solution. Yes, climbers are red herring.

12 - Scenario de film d'horreur
Initially, this level used rising water, which I then had to replace with acid (to keep the "horror" aspect), but it became less "interesting". It's true, it's a difficult level to achieve with just enough builders, but... your solution is more complicated than the one I had planned. Besides, I had fun redoing the level using only one digger. I decided to keep the level as is (I like it that way !), but to replace it with Marathon 7, considered too easy.
See my replay.

13 - Le palais de la reine 5
Well done, this is not the solution I had imagined. Actually, to make it simpler, you can make the second incoming lemming dig (basher), so that it lands on the platform below.
See my replay.

15 - Les hieroglyphes mysterieuses
Well done ! Your solution looks a bit like the one I intended, but I know that there are, in fact, many solutions, each as difficult as the last (IchoTolot's solution is great !).
See my (and his) replay.

16 - Le Pont des Soupirs
I agree, it's not an interesting puzzle...

18 - Hansel et Gretel
Yes, I noticed that with the climber, the solution was too easy !

19 - La bibliotheque du chateau
Well done, but there is a simpler solution, without using the floater. You don't have to ask a lemming to climb the bookcase.
See my replay.

20 - Nuit d'etoiles
QuoteA lot of skills are not necessary, though

Yes, it's true.

21 - Luminaires
Whao ! A very very very complicated solution ! In the much easier solution I imagined, only two skills are needed (the pick-up skill is a red herring).
See my replay.

22 - Cache-cache
QuoteKey is the climber here which is a Red-Herring-skill in my opinion and must not be assigned to any of the two Lemmings.

Yes, that's how I imagined it. Well done !

23 - La prison d'Andromede
Perfect !

100 metres
1 - Il neige
This is more or less the intended solution, an alternative solution.
See my replay.

3 - Peur pourpre
Another (easier ?) solution is possible : the first lemming that runs along the path can also block the two zombies at the bottom.
See my replay.

5 - Le parc d'attraction
Nice solution, a little different from mine.

10 - L'enigme des Pharaons
I think this is a deceptively hard level. I'm surprised it caused you any difficulty !

15 - Petits ponts
I didn't think it was possible to do it in a minute using the swimmer (see my replay). However, as the timing is quite tight, I decided to reset the initial time limit (1 minute 15).
See my replay.

19 - Le mur de briques
Yes, well done, this is the intended solution.

21 - Un serpent siffle sur leur tete
QuoteThere are several ways to go through the left side with the pioneer  - you can end up with 4 jumpers and no shimmiers left as well as with 2 shimmers and no jumpers.

You are right ! This is the intended solution.

22 - Palais d'Orient
Slightly different solution than I had initially planned.
See my replay.

24 - Blue Lagoon
Well done ! Your solution is a bit easier than mine. Yes, Eric solved the level very differently, but his solution nevertheless seems quite complicated to me. But... congratulations to him !

25 - Boutons de rose
Well done ! This was the intended solution.

400 metres
2 - Au Royaume des joyaux
Good, but we can still save a builder.
See my replay.

3 - Fuite d'eau
Well done ! It was a level that had « rising water » before, which made the climb much more « challenging ».

4 - Dare-dard
Yes, many solutions are possible.
See my replay.

5 - Bienvenue au Parthenon
Yes, the only difficulty in this level is how to save the blocker. Good job !

6 - Dans les steppes glacees
This is exactly the solution I had imagined.

7 - Competences
Once again, this is exactly the solution I had imagined. Well done !

8 - Larmes de givre
Yes, the basher is a red herring. Your solution is the same as mine. Other players told me this level was easy too. However, I don't find it that easy...

11 - Foret psychedelique
Your solution is slightly different from mine. Indeed, this level is not that difficult.
See my replay.

12 - Pres du port d'Alexandrie
Well done for succeeding with so few builders. Um no, there's no typo in the title ! Well, I don't think so.

14 - Nougatine a gogo
This is exactly the solution I had imagined. Well done !

15 - Tic et tac
Once you understand the first obstacle, the rest flows naturally...

17 - Le phare
That's right, the level is too easy.

18 - Mystere sous l'evier
QuoteHowever, there is still one element in this level, I really can't stand. And this is the presence of the miner-cancels-miner mechanics.

The intended solution doesn't use this mechanic (which I don't like either !). But... by using it, we save all the lemmings. So, well done !
See my replay.

21 - Bonbons
Wow ! Funny solution.

QuoteThen I decided the builder-pickups to be Red Herrings and I put my entire efforts into the left side.

In fact, it's not ! You can take a look at the solutions from IchoTolot and kaywhyn, which are very close to the one I intended. I just fixed the problem.

Marathon
2 - Aqualand
Nice solution, close to the one I imagined.

3 - Le morpion piege
QuoteI spared two skills, but I think this level is actually open-ended.

Yes, but I didn't think it could be solved so "easily".

5 - Porte close chez le Sheriff
The solution I planned is the same as that proposed by kaywhyn. It's more... fluid. But yours works well, too.

7 - Une houleuse aventure
It's true, it's too easy a level for a « Marathon ». So, I exchanged this level for a more difficult level.

8 - En apesanteur
QuoteDon't know if the time-limit is really necessary here.

I find that it gives additional tension at this level...

9 - Soleil d'hiver
Yes, you are right about everything (even that the cloud and the sun look like a fried egg). For information, in the intended solution, I save three platformers.
See my replay.

10 - Soucoupes violentes
Yes, I really like this level as well. Nothing is obvious.

12 - Miam miam !
Good game. The intended solution was slightly different.

13 - Le palais de la reine 11
Unexpected solution, quite convoluted. You can see kaywhyn's solution.

16 - Morts vs Vivants
Nice solution !
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: Swerdis on January 13, 2024, 10:14:15 PM
Hi David,

thank you very much for your detailed feedback. This will take me a while to go through your intended solutions. In most cases I compared mine with those of Kaywhyn and Icho, but it will be pretty interesting to see what you really had in mind. Speaking about difficulty, I have no problems at all with breathers here and there as long as the general progress is intact. And that's true in your pack basically. There are some exceptions as we already noted, but we shouldn't exaggerate. In the end we give just recommendations - it's your pack and you can do whatever you want. And I like it. I said on a different occasion that I prefer custom music over the original tunes in the meantime. But again, this is my personal taste and you even didn't know about custom music when you created the pack.

Personally, I only ever created single levels, but never an entire pack. I'm too lazy and I'm more of a puzzle-solver than a creator, so I'm always happy that there are so many people here that provide fresh content. Also I rarely participate in discussions for I am - just like you - not a native English speaker (I'm German) which makes it harder for me to understand everything in detail.

By for now, Swerdis.
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: David on January 19, 2024, 04:48:05 PM
Thank you Swerdis for your explanations. Generally speaking, I tried to classify the levels by increasing difficulty, but I ran into two pitfalls :
  - On the one hand, you will agree, the difficulty (of a level) is a fairly subjective notion ;
  - On the other hand, as I corrected many levels after advice and comments from Gronkling, Icho and kaywhyn, some levels "became" much easier or much more difficult than they were initially.

As for music, I don't know where to find custom music to accompany a level pack. I don't know if I'm allowed to use music from other level packs. If anyone can explain it to me, thanks in advance ! ;)

Swerdis, you may be too lazy to create levels, but you are very good at solving them ! :thumbsup:
Anyway, I really appreciate your feedback.
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: kaywhyn on January 21, 2024, 01:19:27 AM
@David, @Swerdis

Hi gentlemen,

Always great to hear from the both of you. About this:

Quote from: David on January 11, 2024, 03:15:45 PM
Morning 2 : I agree, this level is way too difficult (and it's not visually pleasing :laugh:), so I'm thinking of swapping it for Running 4 (which is too easy) ! What do you think about it ?

I agree, although I'm not certain if Morning Walk 2 needs to move that far down the pack. What I was thinking is near the end of the Morning Walk rank, though if there isn't a suitable level from that area to swap with it, then sure, this can do. The only thing about Running 4 is that the wide water pit might be intimidating for players if it's that early in the pack, but other than that intimidating factor, yea, it is an easy level.

Also @David, I have played some of Swerdis' single levels and I must say they're great, even if some of them are currently backroutable. I especially like his huge Brick builderless level, which IIRC Swerdis got inspired from namida's Lemmings Plus I or Lemmings Plus II pack. In other words, I recommend you give Swerdis' levels a try if you fancy a nice challenge! :laugh:

Like Swerdis though, I'm more of a level solver than a level designer. Most of the levels I've made so far are contest levels, plus a single level that I released in the Random Level Sharing topic, which is my very first Fire level.

Anyway, @Swerdis just informed me that Marathon 18 doesn't load for him because of missing pieces. So, I'm going to attach the style the level uses and see if that fixes the problem. Just extract to the "styles" folder. Let me know if it helps or not, and if the latter David or I will investigate. 
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: ericderkovits on January 22, 2024, 09:18:23 PM
The missing piece is the new left-facing fields. Gigalem changed them from force_left and force_right to owfleft_dreadnought and owfright_dreadnought (looks slightly different but acts the same). This particular level has 2 left-facing ones in it. So here is the fixed level

Edit: These are the new ones. Kaywhyn just added the old ones if you still want those for that level. see above post. Also I've added the old ones to gigalem_dread style folder. so now I have both in that folder.

Note: Also Gigalem added several new objects that are not included in the above post styles (ie anti-splat pads)
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: kaywhyn on January 22, 2024, 10:35:09 PM
@Swerdis

Ah, apologies for that, but I sent you an updated version of the style. I should had checked that the level didn't load for me as well, though I could had sworn it did :forehead: I've reattached the correct one (see two posts above). Same instructions as before.
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: David on January 24, 2024, 03:48:53 PM
Thank you kaywhyn for your review. Since Morning 2 is a fairly difficult level and Running 4 is rather easy, I thought it would be interesting to swap the two levels for "sleek" (I don't know if that's the right word, in English :-\) the difficulty of my pack. It saves me from making too many changes.

I will take a look at the Swerdis levels, and in particular at Brick Builderless, I have no doubt that he is a good creator, despite what he says (I have already watched his Utube channel!). For my part, I like solving levels, but I prefer designing. However, solving other players' levels gives a lot of ideas for creating our own levels.

Finally, I fixed the Marathon 18 issue (I will update my pack when Swerdis finishes the pack). Thanks to both of you, kaywhyn and ericderkovits, for your comments. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: Swerdis on January 28, 2024, 07:52:24 PM
Hi David,

thanks. Yeah I make small progress at the moment. As you know I had skipped Marathon 18 due to the problems with the single file, but I could solve it today. Wasn't that bad though at the first glance this level looked really intimidating for me. But this was nothing compared to Marathon 22. You had reduced the number of builders to 17 here, and I'm still stuck - short of 1 bridge all the time. But I'm continuously working on it.

This builderless level Kaywhyn mentioned is actually quite easy - because it's meant to be open-ended. I've got a feeling I should go back to the drawing board soon, making new levels. Got lots of inspirations by you and other designers ;)
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: kaywhyn on January 28, 2024, 09:21:21 PM
@David
Quote
As for music, I don't know where to find custom music to accompany a level pack. I don't know if I'm allowed to use music from other level packs. If anyone can explain it to me, thanks in advance ! ;)

Yup, it's perfectly fine to use tracks from other level packs, if the author has used custom music and supplied a download link :)

Two websites that were recommended to me for music thanks to Nessy :thumbsup:

-  Video game music - https://downloads.khinsider.com/ (https://downloads.khinsider.com/)

-  Zophar's Domain - https://www.zophar.net/music (https://www.zophar.net/music)

Also you can get some from the Mod Archive:

https://modarchive.org/ (https://modarchive.org/)



@Swerdis

Let me know if you have any levels that I can test for you. I know you asked me a while back and I gently turned down the offer because I want to do a live LP of the pack, if it ever gets done, but I can always do a commentary video series on it and let the replays show my solutions instead ;) I'm finding that I just don't have the energy like I used to to LP every level pack there is.

As for your progress with David's pack, something tells me that you might be able to finish up the rest of it today, seeing how you succeeded in getting through Marathon 22. Great job! :thumbsup: Interesting how it's different from how I resolved it, especially near the exit area. Replay attached which you might find useful for learning a trick ;)
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: David on January 29, 2024, 12:15:44 AM
Swerdis : My feedback on the last levels you have completed :

Spoiler
For levels Marathon 17, Marathon 19 and Marathon 21, it's perfect, you have found the intended solution.

Regarding Marathon 18, I fixed the problem. In fact, this is a level that initially used the "freeze after 10 seconds", which made it much more difficult to execute, with very precise timing. Your comment (mentioning the locked door), made me smile. :P

Marathon 20: This apparently complicated (or convoluted ???) level is not that difficult. In its initial form, you had to find the keys hidden behind the Egyptian numbers between 20 and 100, which was quite difficult for those who did not know them.
But in its current form, you just need to carefully observe the reliquary and the indications on either side of the exit: first, you have to bash the "waves" block and second, you have to bash the "beetle" block. In addition, you have to bring back the four keys and find the heart (it's easy, you have to bash the "heart" block), the only organ that was left in the body of the deceased before mummification. :thumbsup:
Okay, it's not very obvious ! :-[

For Marathon 22, I chose to limit the number of builders to prevent the level from being able to be solved like this, but congratulations, I now challenge you to complete the level with only 16 builders. With good timing, it is doable !
You will find my solution in the attachment, because I don't think I have already shared it on the forum.

kaywhyn : Thank you very much for the links and advice. I will look. Indeed, I'm thinking of offering a new (small) level pack soon. ;)
An then, question I also ask Swerdis, where can I download Brick Builderless level ?
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: Turrican on January 29, 2024, 04:00:05 AM
Hi David! I have seen the discussion about custom music. I am one of the creators, that prefer to use custom music , instead of the original tracks , for both my works ( custom levels , and level conversions of custom levels between various lemmings engines ) , and for my youtube videos.

Before I started making packs for Lemmings , I used to release my works as single levels (and I still release them in that form too). So I used modarchive for their music tracks , because it made it easy for me to provide a soundtrack (I did put a link of the track each time) , and the players would have music tracks , that would listen to,  probably for the first time.

So , I've decided to post here links , for the threads that I have posted my works , so you can listen to the tracks that I've used , and download them if you like them (modarchive has a feacture, that allows to listen to a track before you download it) , and if you would like to use them for your works.

Here are links for the threads , that contain my works :

Levels by Turrican thread : https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4734.0

Turrican's Supelemmini projects : https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5113.0

Lemmix level pack topic (you will find my works , on pages 20 and 21) : https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=943.0

Turrican's Lemmix projects : https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5958.0


Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: kaywhyn on January 29, 2024, 09:14:51 AM
@David

You can download Swerdis' builderless brick level here:

https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=3743.msg81124#msg81124 (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=3743.msg81124#msg81124)

The level is called "Somewhere Better Than Death Is Anywhere." What I meant by "builderless brick" is that it's a level in the ONML Brick tileset that doesn't provide any builders, as I couldn't remember the level name. I apologize for the confusion! :laugh:
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: Swerdis on January 29, 2024, 11:49:41 PM
Hello David,

it was my undertaking for this evening to solve the remaining four levels of your pack and I finally did it - even though it's already past midnight. It feels good as it's more or less the case with every pack, and I think it was a great travel during the last months -  I started August 23th last year and had my breaks now and then. As I already mentioned your pack has been composed with a lot of love for details, I like the visuals as much as most of the puzzles. I also appreciate that you still work on it as you seal backroutes, swap levels and so forth. It's a challenging pack I think, but not among the absolute hardest, the learning curve is quite steep in the beginning, but it's flattening towards the end. I would not say the final rank is much harder compared to the penultimate one. My favourite level, if I had to choose one, is probably Marathon 10 for it's unexpected, very surprising solution - no wonder it's also one of the hardest in my opinion. If you ever want to create new material you can be sure that I will definitely play it - I will find the time despite work and my three little daughters that are already quite interested in papa's games. We'll read from each other ;)
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: kaywhyn on January 30, 2024, 12:04:58 AM
@Swerdis

Copy/paste my Youtube comment on your final video of David's pack:

Congratulations on finishing David's pack! :thumbsup: My congratulations on finishing David's pack! =) It was a long and difficult journey, but you did it. Happy to hear that you enjoyed it despite the wonky difficulty, at least in the beginning. I absolutely agree with the amazing visual details that David really puts into these levels, they're very eye-pleasing to look at. Also happy to hear that you've gotten some inspiration from Davids' levels! That's why we play custom level packs to get ideas! They can really be very eye-opening to what one can do in Lemmings levels and in the editor.

Now, as promised two packs come to my mind for your next one to play:

- Strato's Lemmings Open Air, a pack which both Armani and I pre-tested. I'm currently pre-testing his Lemmings Hall of Fame pack, but I haven't gotten any new version from him since I last PMed him the rest of my replays a few months ago.

- nin10doadict's Casualemmings v2.0

Strato's pack is harder overall, even from the start, and so I feel like you would enjoy it a bit more. I'm not saying this because I pre-tested his pack :p I honestly do think this pack will be more enjoyable due to the pack's high difficulty, but it is an excellent pack that I absolutely enjoyed pre-testing! :thumbsup:

On the other hand, while nin10doadict's pack does say "casual" in the name and he intended this sequel pack of his to be for beginners, it doesn't stay easy for long. It already gets pretty difficult especially in the second half of the first rank but IMO this pack is definitely of higher quality than his Lemmings Squared pack, but this pack I just mentioned is only available for NL v10.13.18, i.e, Old Formats NL.

Don't worry, I won't be offended if you decide to go for nin10doadict's pack first before Strato's pack :p
Title: Re: The Lemmings Have Grown Pack (156 levels) [Difficulty : Medium – Hard]
Post by: David on January 30, 2024, 10:27:49 PM
Thank you for playing my level pack, Swerdis, it was a real pleasure to watch your solutions, to read your remarks, your criticisms and your analyses, always relevant. I'm happy that you appreciated the design (I really like spending time making the levels harmonious and original!) as much as the puzzles, and your compliments make me very pleased. And I congratulate you on having successfully completed this challenge (a challenge that lasted 5 months, if I got it right!). :thumbsup:

So, I just updated my pack. ;)

Besides, I'm currently creating another pack (which should total around 50 levels). If I put it on the forum, I would be happy for you to play it, one day. ;P

Here is my feedback on the latest levels :

Spoiler
Marathon 23: Well done. Indeed, the two pick-up skills are red herrings. But it's my fault, I shouldn't have added them. To fix the issue, I added two "steel" blocks. :evil::evil::evil:

Marathon 24: Good analysis. Solution intended.

Marathon 25: Once again, good analysis of the level. I like to imagine puzzles with the gilder and the floater (the level Tic et tac, for example). As these are permanent skills, you can't go back by assigning a parachute to a glider, and vice versa. This can become a real headache. I had a lot of fun designing it, this level.
Furthermore, I suggest you look at my solution, a little simpler than yours!

Marathon 26: Yes, well done!

Turrican: Thank you very much. :P It's really nice of you to give me all these links. :lem-shocked: I will add the custom music when I have finished designing all the levels in my next pack.

kaywhyn: Thanks for the link to the level (I downloaded it). I would have had a hard time finding it on my own in this maze... uh, this forum. :D