Lemmings Forums

It's finally here: The new NeoLemmix Introduction Pack! :thumbsup:

The NeoLemmix Introduction Pack is a great starting point if you want to get into Lemmings or specifically into NeoLemmix, but not nessesarily in its entirety. Especially the last rank is more as an introduction to advanced Lemmings.
The first 2-3 ranks are 100% recommended though as they introduce new features and skills in NeoLemmix.
After that it can be a good idea to maybe also take a look at some of the easier custom packs or maybe even at the first ranks of some slightly more difficult ones.
But in the end it's entirely up to personal preference. :)

1.) Download Link:

NeoLemmix Introduction Pack (V 1.9 ~ 319 KB): NeoLemmix Introduction Pack V 1.9 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/b7ggqr9cv86dorm/NeoLemmix_Introduction_Pack.zip?dl=1)

Contains the level pack in the newest version!

To update you only need to redownload + replace the files of the previous version.

2.) Installation:

1. Get a NeoLemmix player from: https://www.neolemmix.com/  and extract it into a folder of your choice (if you already have an up-to-date player you can skip this step)
    Also make sure you got all the styles that are linked in the player section there as well and extract them into your player's "styles" folder. The pack uses some non-standard tilesets and
    therefore needs the collection.
2. Unzip "NeoLemmix_Introduction_Pack.zip" into the main folder of your Neolemmix player.  ../levels/NeoLemmix_Introduction_Pack should exist now.
3. Run "NeoLemmix.exe" and press F2 in the main menu so you can access the pack through the level browser.
4. Enjoy!

3.) Ratings:

Skills

Just Digging Into NeoLemmix:

(https://i.imgur.com/OsHs45D.png)

An introduction to the basic controls of NeoLemmix as well as all of the different lemming skills the engine provides.

Objects & Functions

Follow The Arrow!:

(https://i.imgur.com/j07VHcW.png)

Introduces all the different objects of the game, as well as important functions that will aid you while playing. Also, you will encounter non-original terrain styles.

Basic Training 1

Delaying The Inevitable:

(https://i.imgur.com/PILFjCL.png)

Here basic tricks are being taught and your general sense for solving levels will be trained.

Basic Training 2

Fancy Fencer:

(https://i.imgur.com/zOuQRm7.png)

We've got a lot of stuff to cover so more tricks and training awaits you here!

Advanced Training

Walking Over Dead Bodies:

(https://i.imgur.com/DNUnNLh.png)

Introduces more advanced and precise tricks. Your knowledge from previous ranks will be tested as well.

Warning! This rank is dedicated to those who want to dig deeper into the mechanics of NeoLemmix. A bunch of the tricks in here appear quite rarely in custom level packs and require pretty precise execution combined with a deeper knowledge of the games' physics. So it might be a bit too much for more casual lovers of Lemmings from here on out! Be warned!

4.) Thanks to all beta testers:

Proxima, namida, Dullstar, Strato Incendus, WillLem, joshescue18, DireKrow, kaywhyn, and uberwolfie.

5.) CONTACT INFO:

Via email you can reach me at: ScavengerW@gmx.de

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4Elfo3E1jTl-SHlOy97kwA



Further feedback is always welcome! :thumbsup:

There will be switch ups in the level order in the future though as new skills/objects/tricks will be introduced. Therefore I recommend saving replays through the level name and not rank+position!

I've uploaded the entire LP of this pack in one go (18 parts), it is contained in my 2020 Tutorials playlist which I have linked below :)

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXsuXbpwwJzHDOrD_1Nkiw14A02IsBRR-

Enjoy! :thumbsup:

I'm aware that Icho needs to make some further tweaks/updates to the Introduction Pack, but once it's in its final state I'd definitely nominate it for inclusion with NeoLemmix alongside Redux :thumbsup:

I agree! I was also going to suggest that it eventually replace Reunion in the suggestions section of the "Welcome to NeoLemmix" thread, but I can't seem to find it.

Quote from: WillLem on January 26, 2021, 04:32:59 AM
I'm aware that Icho needs to make some further tweaks/updates to the Introduction Pack, but once it's in its final state I'd definitely nominate it for inclusion with NeoLemmix alongside Redux :thumbsup:

If IchoTolot's alright with it, I'm happy to start including it alongside V12.11 stable.

Quote from: namida on January 26, 2021, 05:48:05 PM

Quote from: WillLem on January 26, 2021, 04:32:59 AM
I'm aware that Icho needs to make some further tweaks/updates to the Introduction Pack, but once it's in its final state I'd definitely nominate it for inclusion with NeoLemmix alongside Redux :thumbsup:

If IchoTolot's alright with it, I'm happy to start including it alongside V12.11 stable.

I would be alright with it. :)

Next patch for those who wonder will be after the time rtw finishes his playthrough of the pack.

^ After some thought, one issue does come to mind here - the heavy use of custom styles in this pack. NL currently ships with only a handful of styles: default, special, xmas, and the Orig (including Sega) and Ohno styles was the intention. Already one custom style is included, orig_dirt_md, for the sake of Redux. One style (and one that's unlikely to see further updates, at that) is one thing - a whole bunch of them though, really just takes us back to the times where the NL and styles were one huge download, so will not be happening.

So I'm wondering - do people think it would be preferable to include this pack and rely on the style manager or manual downloads; or would it be preferable to not ship this pack with NL?

I feel like custom tileset use should be encouraged personally. Coming from someone who has played the pack, I think the pack does a good job at showcasing the custom tilesets by various authors.

Judging by the fact that I'm on the brink of releasing a fully customised NeoLemmix pack this year, this opinion of mine doesn't really come as a surprise. I feel like people should be able to explore the different custom tilesets which NeoLemmix has to offer.

The Introduction pack should come with the NeoLemmix download personally, I think NeoLemmix should intuitively download the styles automatically for the player whom is attempting to play the pack, the player has come that far now and these features should be encouraged.

I could make a list of the custom tilesets I used, but their inclusion was intentionally. Most packs use custom tilesets and the player should get familiar with them.

I still am in favor of packaging NL with the full standard library and give an option for the minimal download!

Reason:

- Most people just want to download the game and get everything! For updates it's a different thing, but the first install I bet 90% just want to get everything and be done with it. :8():

Or: Make an option/checkbox with the installer to get the full standard library and set it on by default and people can uncheck it if they don't want everything.

+1 for what Flopsy and Icho said

OK, with some help from Flopsy's above video, I solved all of the intro pack, and I'm hoping to put up a list of time records there. Firstly, I'm going to upload my replays here to check for any possible backroutes; O&F1 and BT1 1 are some of my examples of notable differences.

Quote from: IchoTolot on November 17, 2020, 04:33:08 PM
There will be switch ups in the level order in the future though as new skills/objects/tricks will be introduced. Therefore I recommend saving replays through the level name and not rank+position!

I must admit I forgot about that, and submitted everything by position instead. :-[ I did have the most recent version though.

Thanks for the replays! :thumbsup:

Will go through them when I prepare the next patch (probably after rtw finished his YouTube playthrough).

Big update: V 1.1 is out! :thumbsup:

New levels:

- 3 21 Zombie contaiment methods using blockers/stackers.
- 3 22 Miner+bomber, climber+bomber.
- 3 23 Training.

- 5 08 Releasing 2 blockers with 1 bomber.
- 5 09 Stacker step up using miners, miner extension with stackers.
- 5 10 Training.

Changes:

- 1 05 Pre text: Nuke botton is mentioned to end level and get rid of blockers.

- 2 09 Pre text: Especially calls out the pink marker of the splat ruler to be the relevant one.
- 2 15 Pre text: Highlight lemming is now displayed with the correct user hotkey.
- 2 16 The level has been simplified a bit by making the platformers + bashers pick-ups.

- 3 07 Pre text: Mentiones that the digger can be released with a builder.  + Backroute fixed by removing the lower left wall.
- 3 09 Backroute fixed - more ice blowers!
- 3 12 A fiddly variant was removed by adding steel.
- 3 16 Fixed visual issue.

- 4 02 Fixed visual issue.
- 4 20 Builder placement has more variance now due to added terrain blocks.

- 5 01 Pre text: Waring text regarding this rank has been added.
- 5 03 Pre text: explains the fencer part better now.
- 5 04 Gaps have been adjusted to make a certain potential backroute clearly not possible.
- 5 07 Level has been reworked and simplified + Pre text: Explains stacker overhang.
- 5 12 Pre text: Is more precise. + RR has been locked.
- 5 13 Pre text: Is more precise.
- 5 17 Level has been reworked and simplified + Pre text: Explains blocker teleport.
- 5 19 Added a background image to make the terrain edges clearer.

Warning! Some of the new levels include recently added styles. You probably might need to update your tileset library. ;)

New (and my affected) replays attached. 12 in total.

Acceptable or intended except for one case: 5 10

Therefore: V 1.2 is realeased!

Fixes:

- 5 10 Fixed backroute with some extra terrain.

Solved it pretty quickly actually thanks to a new builder stacker trick, saving two skills. 8-)

Edit: Found another solution which looks more intended than the other one, labelled B.

Yeah, that needs a little fix. ;)

V 1.3 is realeased!

- 5 10 Fixed backroute with some terrain changes. Adjusted the pretext a bit.


The trick you found is really nice! :thumbsup:  It needs timing though and with multiple lemmings the area must be safe.

Hey, thanks! 8-) I felt a rush of excitement as soon as I saw that too.

Good job fixing the two backroutes. Looking at these level fixes it seems like I'm doing the first bit correctly but not the second bit. I'm still able to find a solution though. I thought it was impossible to execute at first, until I realised something about the floater. Delaying it to maintain crowd control really makes that second statement in the pre-text a bigger reality now. I hope this solution is intended...

This is an acceptable alternative solution that also uses the stacker+ miner trick twice.

The intended solution is not far off, but slightly easier to exceute.

I've attached my solution for comparison. :)

Hello Icho,

I have solved the new levels and also resolved all levels where my replays broke. I have my entire replay collection attached.

Regarding the new levels:

3 22 - The Graveyard Wow, this was an unusually tough one for me but it's a great one. Demonstrates the three tricks needed to avoid further zombie infection well.

Spoiler

I was a dummy and simply didn't think of having a lemming turn around on a blocker before assigning him a blocker and hence why I kept losing more than one lemming or needed to use two walkers, one to release the blocker and another to turn him around unnecessarily

3 23 - Laboratory of Explosions Easier than the previous level, but it definitely helps that I'm already aware of both of these tricks mentioned in the pretext. Even then, they occasionally go over my head! :laugh: Still, that's great that a level that teaches this is made for the NL Tutorial pack ;) Interestingly enough, I beat this level without the pretext ever loading, but that's because I have discovered a bug and I'm able to reproduce it.

3 24 - Containment Breach Yet another level that I was able to mostly figure out without the pretext ever loading, although what was mentioned in the pretext for this level I had figured out on my own. Once again, I was a dummy and completely missed what I mentioned in the spoiler for 3 22 above and therefore I was short a skill :forehead: It's amazing how sometimes these things get overlooked :XD:

6 8 - Saving Two Lems with One Bomb O.o, this was my favorite new level! :thumbsup: Not only is Proxima's tileset really nice, I really love the puzzle here. I remember namida suggesting on Discord this trick be taught in this pack.

6 9 - Stack and Step This was an unusually difficult level for me, and that's because I found it quite odd that the pre-text never even loaded when I first played this level. Even then, while I was trying to figure out what tricks you intended to teach in this level, I still managed to solve it on my own :P I have mentioned in various places around here that levels that provide lots of stackers tend to be hard ones for me. You can pretty much say these are "hard for kaywhyn levels." :laugh: Even then, this should be a backroute, considering I don't even use one of the tricks mentioned in the pretext when I did find out later on what it said.

6 10 - Jump the Sausage! This was also a difficult level for me, but it's a nice one. I'm glad that you put these levels teaching some stacker tricks, especially since they can be some of the most difficult ones to do. Even then, that didn't stop me from being able to complete certain United levels that required these tricks :P This might be a good time to add some tricks to Strato's topic on the stacker skill: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=3864.0 (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=3864.0)

Levels I needed to resolve:

6 4 - Walking Over Dead Bodies

6 7 - Checkerboard's Crossing Much easier now than it was before thanks to all the pickups.

6 12 - Shimmichanga Now the walker is relevant instead of optional.

6 17 - A Different Kind of Space   

Thanks for the feedback and replays kaywhyn! :thumbsup:

V 1.4 is realeased!

- 3 22 (adjusted the pre-text to mention the blockers release direction)

- 6 09 (the jumper and 3 stackers are now pick-up skills)

Resolved 6 9. Now I use both tricks the level is meant to teach, so this should be intended now :thumbsup:

The NL Intro pack will be updated as soon as the new levels covering the Laserer and Slider are ready.

As they will be quite a few it will probably take a bit, but be sure to stay tuned. ;)

The big laserer and slider update is here: V 1.5 is out! :thumbsup:

New levels:

1 12 Laserer + slider intro

2 05 Paint objects

3 12 Floater + Glider + Swimmer exit
3 13 Floater and Glider slowing down/getting ahead
3 14 Training
3 28 Slider + bomber holes
3 29 Laserer + shimmier
3 30 Training

4 08 Slider + shimmier
4 09 Slider + builder --> Slider turns
4 10 Training
4 24 Laserer + cloner/blocker
4 25 Disarmer interruption: Laserer - Disarmer / Builder - Disarmer
4 26 Training
4 29 Laserer and interrupt + shimmier/jumper/general interrupt
4 30 Turn with 2 builders directly after each other
4 31 Training

5 11 Slider + stacker + miner (+ cloner) / Stoner + slider
5 12 Stacker + builder step up
5 13 Training

Be aware that this pushes around the positions of eligible levels regarding LOTY 2021 nominations!

Thanks again to Armani and kaywhyn for pretesting! :thumbsup:

Completed the first four ranks, replays attached.

The new content is very good for the most part. I have concerns with two particular levels, but the rest are going great so far. I really love the new Slider and Laserer tricks that you've shown off. Particularly liked the stuff about sliders+builders and the showcasing of how much a single laserer can do for you in a level.

Spoiler

Check my replay for Basic Training 1-11 The Guardian. I spent probably 45 minutes trying to get this solution to work and eventually did, but it's craaaazy fiddly. I now know from discussions in the Discord that the solution I found is not the intended solution, but so that nobody else tries what I tried, it might be best to tweak it to make sure what I did is impossible. It's not really your fault either, it was just me being a giant derp and forgetting that I could turn the climber/jumper around using the platformer. Btw, I really think one of the pre-level screens should mention that jumping is faster than running, since this level seemingly requires that fact.

The other one is Basic Training 1-27 Containment Breach. Assuming my solution is the intended one, I really don't like the precision on the right-hand side of the level. The builder bridge needs to be perfectly positioned, because if it's too far left then it won't reach high enough up the wall to allow the lemmings to step up into the 2nd miner tunnel later, but if it's too far right, it'll get chopped by the 1st miner. I might be wrong, but it feels like the margin is only a couple of pixels, and it took me 4-5 attempts to actually get it right... forcing me to redo most of the puzzle each time to adjust the builder placement, since there's no good way to check it ahead of time, seeing as the 2nd miner is the last thing you do in the puzzle. Frustrating.

And this level is quite fine imo, but I will note that Basic Training 1-14 King of the Sky took me quite a while, almost an hour off and on between the other puzzles... because I was stuck on the idea of having to assign the Floaters/Gliders either immediately or at the last second, resulting in me spending TONS of time exploring dead-end solutions, when you actually needed to assign one of the gliders mid-fall to have them land at the base of the wall and bash. I got it very quickly once I thought to try that, but thinking to try that in the first place took me quite a while. If you want to do anything to clue it more, that's up to you.

I'll do Advanced Training over the coming days, time permitting.

Thanks for the replays and feedback. I will probably look through them + prepare a patch when you are through with the pack. I also got some replays from josh to go through. :)

Your point are valid though and are exactly what I look for in terms of feedback! If 1-2 more hints, making a fiddly solution impossible, or reducing the precision move these problems out of the way without much trouble I will certainly go for it in the next patch! :)

Advanced Rank complete and replays attached. Some of these were pretty tricky, even with the hints.

These ones:

9 Stack and Step
10 Jump the Sausage
13 Caught and Released
20 A Different Kind of Space
27 Victory Lap

...each took me at least half an hour. Not necessarily a bad thing, though it does make the beginner tag feel slightly misleading, hah.

Some specific comments:

Spoiler

I found the tooltip in 9 slightly cryptic. It took me a while to figure out the first trick, as we briefly discussed in the discord. But after that, it still took a while after that because there is multiple promising 'tricks' in the bottom left and I ended up picking all of the wrong ones first. You can have a walker step up onto the stacker mid-build in the bottom left, then turn them into a shimmier to have them shimmy up toward the top by themselves for example, which I thought was the intended path for a while. My fault.

For 10, the hard part was the bottom right. I spent a significant amount of time (~30 min) trying different combinations of stackers/builders/platformers, but the closest I got was one pixel short. You can see where I got here: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/249720184116477956/938209876763607090/SPOILER_unknown.png Eventually I gave up and asked for help and was given the solution to it, so... technically I never actually successfully solved this by myself.

For 13, I think the puzzle is really good but also really tough due to how much is going on at once. The whole block of 8 through 13 is, imo, harder than 14 through 16, so I think those two groups of levels should be swapped around. One thing that really caught me off guard is that in the bottom right, the timing works out perfectly (at least in my solution) if the first lemming that arrives becomes the stoner, then the second lemming becomes the builder worker. My first instinct was actually the opposite... I used a slider to make the first lemming that arrived the builder worker, then the second became the stoner... but if you do this thinking it'll buy the worker my time, it actually ends up not working out. A little bizarre, but hey.

For 20 and 27 I have no complaints, they're just tricky, but in a satisfying way. I know 20 in particular has been a real pain in the butt with regards to backroutes, so hopefully this solution is the actual one at last, because it's really cool!

For 20 the main thing which took me a long time to realize was how to get the crowd up to the exit despite not having any construction skills at that point. The fact you had to let the crowd past then trap them on top of the ramp using the blocker was the ingenious trick I was missing but did eventually realize. Very clever. For 27, the hard part was figuring out a way to release the crowd after fully preparing the path ahead. I eventually realized I could do it by assigning the lower miner ahead of time and then releasing the crowd later using a climber-bomber.

I probably look through everything this weekend and then prepare the next update based on all the feedback. Again, thank you very much! :thumbsup:

V 1.6 is out!

Thanks to josh and DireKrowfor the feedback and replays! :thumbsup:

Position swaps:

5 14 - 5 16 is now 5 08 - 5 10 and as a result:
5 08 - 5 13 is now 5 11 - 5 16

Fixes:

3 11 backroute fix + pre text mentions that jumping is faster than walking.
3 14 pre text change
3 27 pre text change

5 12 pre text change
5 13 pre text change

I also played and finished this pack. I really like the pack. Also like the new slider and laser levels. Some advanced training levels were tricky.

replays attached.

Thanks, will look through these soon. :)

I still need to watch Eric's replays, but for now

V 1.7 is out!

Fixes some tileset refereces. (dex_DaVinci --> dex_davinci)

After updating to 1.7 of the pack, 1 of my replays broke. It was in the Objects & Functions Rank.

The level was level 6 Trap Roulette.

Here is the new replay of that level

A bit weird that it broke.

My replay still works fine and I only changed the tileset reference. Maybe a small terrain/object change that I missed there and somewhere influenced your solution. It did not matter for all my Intro Pack and United solution replays though.

V 1.8 is out!

Finally got through eric's replays. All but one were either intended or acceptable alternatives.

The following level has therefore been backroute fixed:

- 4 20 (added some steel)

ok here is my 4-20 Double Down resolve

Now it's intended! :thumbsup:

I want to point out that level 3.12 (a newer one) contains a pickup skill with a number, but that's not introduced via text until a later level in the same rank.

Quote from: chrisleec728 on December 22, 2022, 05:07:01 PM
I want to point out that level 3.12 (a newer one) contains a pickup skill with a number, but that's not introduced via text until a later level in the same rank.

Good catch, thanks!

I will put it on the list for the next patch. :)

V 1.9 is out!

Fixes are mostly based on feedback through darkshoxx's streams this time:

- 2 07 (adjusted text to include laserers)

- 3 12 (split up a pick-up skill into multiple ones as multiple pick-ups were not mentioned yet)
- 3 15 (flattened the terrain at the start)

- 4 29 (added steel)
- 4 31 (Made the level easier: The shimmiers are now pick-ups + some terrain changes)

- 5 06 (added terrain)
- 5 10 (added terrain)
- 5 11 (fixed the text)
- 5 16 (added a hint and made others more specific)
- 5 25 (added a hint)
- 5 27 (locked the RR, Made hints more specific, some terrain+steel changes)

@Swerdis

Congrats on getting through the NL Intro Pack in its current state. Looks like Icho will now need to find a nice afternoon/weekend to look over your solutions. Let's see if you managed to find any backroutes that Armani and I missed in our pre-testing! ;)

I've already stated to you that it's not quite complete since there will still be new levels to add, such as introduction levels to the new objects when they drop. Even then, any kind of feedback you can provide for Icho regarding unusual difficulty spikes, unclear pre-texts, etc, is helpful! :thumbsup:

@Icho

Swerdis has brought to my attention two builder-related tricks that weren't introduced anywhere in this pack,

Spoiler

- Dolly Dimple builder trick of isolating a worker lemming by building in one direction and only one lemming looks in the other direction, most notably for catching one of the last few lemmings from the entrance

- Building through a thin enough wall to leave a builder step past it to catch a lemming on the other side

I don't know whether or not these were ever discussed and a decision was made to not introduce them. Do you think they should? If yes, most definitely they're levels best suited for the Advanced Training rank :)

All of Swerdis's solutions were either intended or an acceptable alternative! Great job! :thumbsup:

Also I noted down the tricks mentioned here! Those will be good additions for the next patch (although I think the first one will be Basic Training 2 rather). Will prepare it probably when the new objects also go live. :)

Quote from: IchoTolot on August 27, 2023, 03:44:33 PM
Also I noted down the tricks mentioned here! Those will be good additions for the next patch (although I think the first one will be Basic Training 2 rather).

That works too! :thumbsup:

I quickly looked through the pack again, and a few more tricks I thought of that I didn't see anywhere and could possibly use an introduction:

Spoiler

- Blockers can still turn lemmings around even if there's a tiny gap before the blocker (Pragmatism from Pimolems or War 13 from United, for examples)
   - Along with this, maybe a tutorial on how blockers can still turn even if the other lemmings are a few pixels above or below the blocker (i.e, lemmings don't need to be at the same height as the blocker to still get turned by them, eg, Manic 13 from LPVI)

- There's a small enough gap before a wall so that bashers/miners can still reach and punch a hole in the wall on the other side so that you can get a climber or drop a slider into the newly made hole to start building, eg, Nightmare! 7 from Reunion)

Maybe these don't need introductions, but well, I'll just drop them off here just in case they might be worth being taught in this pack ;)

Thanks for your kind words. I really liked the pack although I think I should have played it first before playing all these other packs. The hardest level for me was clearly AT 16 though the final part of AT 20 was pretty tricky as well.

PS: I have another one: If a blocker that holds back the crowd must be placed on a thin bar or something like that he can't be blown up since that would destroy the entire bar. But the blocker can be removed as well with a falling bomber right above him. I know at least one level in the packs I played that does this and I liked it.

@Kaywhyn:  You can use the second trick as well to avoid other Lemmings to climb up there.

The first one kaywhyn mentioned here should already be covered by "Blockers Blindside".

The rest are noted down. ;)

Quote from: IchoTolot on August 28, 2023, 07:51:11 PM
The first one kaywhn [sic] mentioned here should already be covered by "Blockers Blindside".

Oh dear, typo of my username :( Regarding the first one covered, I guess it kind of does

Quote
The rest are noted down. ;)

:thumbsup:

Quote from: Swerdis on August 27, 2023, 07:50:25 PM
@Kaywhyn:  You can use the second trick as well to avoid other Lemmings to climb up there.

Ah, you're right :thumbsup:

Something I've been thinking about recently: Have you considered at least mentioning talismans, perhaps at the end of the "Objects & Functions" rank?

Now that 12.13 stable is out, are there going to new levels covering the New Objects?

Quote from: ericderkovits on August 30, 2024, 02:47:21 PM
Now that 12.13 stable is out, are there going to new levels covering the New Objects?

Of course! Patience! 12.13 has only been out for 1.5 weeks and you're already on Icho about this. Considering Icho's busy schedule, the levels will get made and done when they get made and done. Not only that, Icho will also need to send them to Armani and me for some pre-testing if he decides to go that route.

Along with the above, the structure needs to be determined. As there are 5 new objects, perhaps the following could work for the O&F rank?

- A level introducing both the skill-adder and skill-remover together. Currently the first level with pre-assigned pre-placed Lemmings is O&F 8. Perhaps there can be a level introducing hatches with pre-assigned permanent skills as well?

- A level introducing both the neutralizer and de-neutralizer together

- A level introducing the portal, though maybe it can be introduced alongside the teleporter as well? To show bi-directional vs one-directional, respectively, but if this isn't important then just a level with the new portal alone can work. First teleporter level is currently O&F 11

Also, O&F 5 is currently the first level with tileset mixing, but the following level, O&F 6, also has tileset mixing, but here it's more justified thanks to the lesson the latter teaches about one-time traps vs infinite traps. So, perhaps these two levels can swap in the order? Either way, perhaps a brief mention of tileset mixing in the pre-text for either level can be put in?

And of course some training levels will be needed with the new objects after their introduction levels. Again structure as to where they go in the pack to be determined.

Also something @chrisleec728 mentioned a while back, and I'm kind of in agreement with him here:

Quote from: chrisleec728 on June 21, 2024, 08:41:38 PM
Something I've been thinking about recently: Have you considered at least mentioning talismans, perhaps at the end of the "Objects & Functions" rank?

QuoteOf course! Patience! 12.13 has only been out for 1.5 weeks and you're already on Icho about this. Considering Icho's busy schedule, the levels will get made and done when they get made and done.

I don't really think it hurts to ask at least. I'm sure none of us expected it to happen right this second or even anytime soon, but some confirmation is still nice just to make sure.

In the case of the new objects:

1.) People need to get experience with them so I can indeed make good introduction levels showing their potential. Tricks and behaviors need to be discovered first!
2.) Very few tilesets actually got these objects right now. Waiting for more tilesets include fitting versions of them is very beneficial.
3.) After that, creating well designed and thought out levels takes time.

So all in all it will take quite a bit before a new version that includes the new objects comes out - but it is planned.

Regarding talismans: There could be a training level that introduces the concept and serves as general training at the same time.

Quote from: chrisleec728 on August 30, 2024, 06:43:02 PM
I don't really think it hurts to ask at least. I'm sure none of us expected it to happen right this second or even anytime soon, but some confirmation is still nice just to make sure.

It doesn't, but it has been spelled out in the OP that there will be levels on the new objects: :P

Quote from: IchoTolot on November 17, 2020, 04:33:08 PM
There will be switch ups in the level order in the future though as new skills/objects/tricks will be introduced. Therefore I recommend saving replays through the level name and not rank+position!

It was also explained by Icho off-site there'll be levels with the new objects.

In any case, see Icho's post above detailing the plan going forward

Advanced training 11 : Save Two Lemmings With A Bomber, by IchoTolot himself, question :

I figured the level up to the point where I need to free the crowd with a single bomber, around the 37 seconds mark in this video :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Miixe9oo0oM&list=PLMDKeLmGYrY12k6UtLUN2akDKAs5KxvWA&index=11


Now both my blockers are ready to walk to the right again, and I need to select a walker in between them that also walks to the right and turn him into a bomber. But I just cannot do that because :

* directionnal select right prioritizes blockers over walkers, certainly because they are "walking" to the right. I cannot select a walker at all while directionnal select right is active.

* no directionnal select also prioritizes blockers, same issue.

* directionnal select left correctly selects a lemming walking to the left, bombs it, then the blockers are freed and walk to the right, but the crowd goes left to its doom.


Is there something I am doing wrong ?


As a side question, I also tried to highlight a Lemmings in the crowd, hoping to at least bomb him when he goes right by pure luck. But the highlight function does not work, or I do not understand how it is supposed to work : when I point over a Lemmings and press the highlight shortcut, nothing happens at all.

Any help appreciated here.

@Guigui

The hotkeys for selecting a walker and highlight depend on the layout you selected when setting up NeoLemmix for the first time. For example, I use the traditional keyboard layout, and for me the default hotkeys for selecting a walker and highlight are Ctrl and right-click, respectively. You can check the hotkey mapping and select the layout you want by going to settings/F3 => General => Configure Hotkeys. Find highlight function and select walking lemming and check what keys those are mapped to. In addition, if you don't like the keys they're mapped to, you can customize them, but I've left them all at their defaults for the traditional layout.

Hope this helps! :) 

@kaywhyn

At first I thought your answer was off-topic, but this was not counting the advanced Leemings attitude where things that look impossible do actually work : the "select walker" function you side-mentionned did the trick. Just hold "select walker" and those blockers do not get selected at all, frame skip until walkers are facing right and it's done. Thank you.


Still not sure how I could do it with the "directionnal select right" function here ?

Also about "highlight lemming" function : how does that work ?

Quote from: Guigui on April 17, 2025, 09:00:44 PM@kaywhyn

At first I thought your answer was off-topic, but this was not counting the advanced Leemings attitude where things that look impossible do actually work : the "select walker" function you side-mentionned did the trick. Just hold "select walker" and those blockers do not get selected at all, frame skip until walkers are facing right and it's done. Thank you.

The hotkey for selecting walking Lemmings is also mentioned in the pre-text for the level. The reason why it doesn't mention a specific hotkey is because it depends on what layout the player selected, and also whether he/she customized it.

QuoteStill not sure how I could do it with the "directionnal select right" function here ?

Simply hold down the hotkey for selecting walking Lemmings and the right arrow key at the same time. This can be difficult to do, since you also need to make sure you have a spare hand to click with the mouse as well. However, there's the highlight feature which eliminates this problem.

QuoteAlso about "highlight lemming" function : how does that work ?

The highlight feature works by marking a Lemming with a pointing down arrow, which on the traditional layout is done by right-clicking the Lemming. You then assign a skill to the highlighted Lemming by right-clicking the appropriate skill in the skill panel. Thus, this achieves the same thing as holding down the hotkey for a walking Lemming and a specific arrow key at the same time, just a lot easier to do because you don't need to hold down any key at all, at least when using the traditional layout. All you have to do is highlight the Lemming by right-clicking on a Lemming, make sure the Lemming with the down pointing arrow is facing the correct direction, and then right-click the skill to assign it to the highlighted Lemming.

Conversely, to get rid of the highlight arrow, right-click on empty air.

Alright, now I can use "select walker" and "directionnal select" correctly.

On the other hand, it looks like "Highlight lemming" has to be assigned to a mouse click button :

* assign "highlight lemming" to either middle or right click : works just as you explained (if set to middle click, you have to middle click in the skill bar to assign)

* assign "highlight lemming" to any other regular key : does not work.

Anyone can confirm ?

Hold the highlight lemming key and left-click the lemming you want to highlight, if it's assigned to a keyboard key.

Thank you namida, this is indeed how it works when assigning highlight lemming to a keyboard button.
Not quite as handy as having it on right or middle click though, but now I'm too used to have time skip functions on mouse buttons and can not come back.

Sorry to have derailed the thread with those controls questions. Back on topic I'm now to the last level of advanced training, pretty glad I learned a lot of stuff along the way. Kudos to IchiTolot for the levels and the explanation texts, very well designed and written.

Now hopefully those custom levels will not seem that hard to me.

Quote from: Guigui on April 18, 2025, 06:14:54 PMSorry to have derailed the thread with those controls questions. Back on topic I'm now to the last level of advanced training, pretty glad I learned a lot of stuff along the way. Kudos to IchiTolot for the levels and the explanation texts, very well designed and written.

Now hopefully those custom levels will not seem that hard to me.

Thanks for the compliment.  :)

Just be aware that your best weapon against those harder puzzles will be persistance.
Some of them will take time, but as long as you try again and again over time at some point they will be solved.
Come back after a few days and a puzzle can look quite differently as before.

You're definitely right. That's what I also love about this game : cant find the solution right away, keep the level in a corner of my mind, think about it later and find the solution.

Currently this last riddle in advanced training has me stuck. I think I have something, but unsure if this is the correct solution that I cannot pull out correctly, or if I am just wrong.

If you're willing to give little help but no spoil on Victory Lap, advanced training 27 : is the crowd supposed to be released via about the same path as the climbers from the beginning, or does the crowd take a different path ?

The best help I can give you is really to especially remember the tricks introduced in the last few levels and see where you find use for them.

Route hint

I struggle to get to your definition of "path" and how precise you define the term. Let's just say if you mean a completely different way through another map section: I have trouble figuriung out where an alternative route shall go through then. ;P

Quote from: IchoTolot on April 19, 2025, 07:38:56 AMThe best help I can give you is really to especially remember the tricks introduced in the last few levels and see where you find use for them.

Route hint

I struggle to get to your definition of "path" and how precise you define the term. Let's just say if you mean a completely different way through another map section: I have trouble figuriung out where an alternative route shall go through then. ;P

Tricks recently learned I am using here :
* basher canceled to blocker then blown by bomber to access the upper right part of the level.
* digger canceled by another digger to avoid the splat at the exit. So I plan on using both diggers at the very end. Though I fear the climbers will give me troubles here.

What I am unsure of is how to free the crowd. With a miner for sure, but if the miner should send everyone to the basher-blocker-bomber area, then I am one or two pixels short to make everyone climb there.

Oh well, I'll give it more tries and see...

I got it  Victory Lap cleared :thumbsup:  8-)  :tal-gold:

Required some very precise timing on the tricks, cool. I'm joining the .nxrp file (sorry not that good at uploading videos). Was that the intended way ?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pAq1KhdZN1jkh6rxAC6fRTy0tc8eQZO4/view?usp=sharing

Quote from: Guigui on April 19, 2025, 04:06:01 PMI got it  Victory Lap cleared :thumbsup:  8-)  :tal-gold:

Required some very precise timing on the tricks, cool. I'm joining the .nxrp file (sorry not that good at uploading videos). Was that the intended way ?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pAq1KhdZN1jkh6rxAC6fRTy0tc8eQZO4/view?usp=sharing

I can confirm that this is intended! Great job!   :thumbsup:

Yay ! The hardest part for me to figure was the "make the 3rd climber dig", in order to let the others close  enough to have an half turn at the crucial moment. Brilliant design  :8:()[: