All zips only need to be unzipped inside the main folder of your NeoLemmix Player!
NeoLemmix Level Pack: https://www.dropbox.com/s/22gps2m3skqpcsx/Contest20_levels.zip?dl=1
Proxima's Lix Entry: https://www.dropbox.com/s/195cns6yzcrkhj2/Proxima_ThirteenLittleSkills_R1V2.txt?dl=1
Music: https://www.dropbox.com/s/m94mj51ct5ktb5z/Contest20_music.zip?dl=1
Styles: https://www.dropbox.com/s/m1uoe93t7d6digl/Contest20_styles.zip?dl=1
Rule 1 Levels
Armani's "Breaking the Cycle" (V3)
DireKrow's "Traipsing About Tombs" (V2)
IchoTolot's "Stackenblochen" (V2)
JRT's "This Month's Tribute to MC Escher" (V3)
Mantha16's "It's Lem Lem Time" (V3)
NieSch's "Symmetry for the Devil" (V2)
Proxima's "Thirteen Little Skills" (V1)
Rule 2 Levels
Armani's "The Gaema Plateau" (V2)
Crane's "Splashdown" (V8)
DireKrow's "Shoestring Operation" (V1)
Dullstar's "Athletic Rescue Operation" (V10)
IchoTolot's "Time For Strongarm Tactics!" (V7)
Mantha16's "All Things Considered" (V2)
Nessy's "Built To Rule The World" (V6)
NieSch's "Stick Together" (V1)
WillLem's "Lemmy Watch The Stars" (V1)
Rule 3 Levels
Armani's "High Five" (V1)
Crane's "Wrong-side Failure" (V9)
DireKrow's "Cheating At Sports" (V2)
IchoTolot's "Switcheroo" (V1)
JRT's "One Thing At A Time" (V1)
Mantha16's "The Lion Sleeps Tonight" (V2)
NieSch's "All in Good Timing" (V9)
Dullstar's "Tunnel Project" (V1)
Namida's "Angel Wing" (V4)
You can check the rules details again here: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4731.0
Playing Phase will be closed on 30th of June!
Updates will close on 27th of June!
Note: This topic is for posting your comments, replays, etc for the levels. If you wish to post an update to your level, or enter a late submission, please do so in the Updates Topic instead.
Great looking levels throughout!
I attach my replay for "wrong-Side Failure".
This and "All in Good Timing" are great "old skool" aesthetic levels.
Yeah, nice work everyone!
Attached is a backroute for Nessy's "Built To Rule The World" (V1):
Got a solution for "High Five". I like how that comes together, and thank goodness for NeoLemmix and its ability to replay and all!
"One thing at a time" is unique, I have to say, and DEFINITELY requires NeoLemmix and its frame stepping!
My solution to "All in Good Timing".
So many nice levels in the contest! :thumbsup:
I attached replays for some rule1 level.
I might have backrouted everything except for NieSch's Symmetry for the Devil. :evil:
Quote
Got a solution for "High Five". I like how that comes together, and thank goodness for NeoLemmix and its ability to replay and all!
And you found the exactly intended solution. Well done :thumbsup:
Ahhh, what a beautiful backroute to my MC Escher one!
I'll submit a V2 blocking that one off later today.
Quote from: Crane on May 19, 2020, 11:35:09 AM
My solution to "All in Good Timing".
Nice backroute! I'll make an update.
@Crane, Nice job solving OTAAT fast. I should study the maths behind this and see how much we can do with this taxon of level. I've already begun constructing OTAAT2 for a level pack which will be considerably larger.
Glad to help with backroutes and solving! In the meantime, here's my solution to Symmetry for the Devil.
Quote from: Armani on May 19, 2020, 11:44:55 AM
I might have backrouted everything except for NieSch's Symmetry for the Devil. :evil:
Quote from: Crane on May 19, 2020, 12:20:37 PM
Glad to help with backroutes and solving! In the meantime, here's my solution to Symmetry for the Devil.
Well done! That's the intended solution. :)
@Armani
Even though my R1 and R3 are a bit open ended, it's still not that open. ;)
A bit of steel in the middle should put an end to your backroute though.
Anyway, I will record my attempts and solutions to the levels over the next days. :)
Backroute alert!
Quote from: Armani on May 19, 2020, 11:44:55 AM
So many nice levels in the contest! :thumbsup:
I attached replays for some rule1 level.
I might have backrouted everything except for NieSch's Symmetry for the Devil. :evil:
Very close to the intended solution for Traipsing About Tombs, actually! I've made a minor adjustment to try and force the use of the basher and/or shimmier you had spare, but overall the details that were different are acceptable alternatives.
These levels are pretty tough. I feel close to solving "Breaking the Cycle" but haven't quite made it there yet.
In the meantime, a couple of replays from R1 levels: 1-3 "Stackenblochen" and 1-4 "This Month's Tribute to MC Escher"
Solved 2-2 Splashdown, 2-6 All Things Considered. They each don't use all of the types of skills (which the rule requires), so they are definitely backroutes.
Also solved 3-2 "Wrong-side Failure", managing to find a way to complete it without having groups help each other in any way (which the rule requires), so that's a backroute.
Resolved updated rule1 levels
Now I think I found acceptable solutions for all of them.
And, Solved all rule2 levels except for Stick Together of which I was a playtester.
Splashdown and Athletic Rescue Operation don't use every type of skill so seems to be backroutes.
Shoestring OperationIt was very impressive level. I had a lot of fun using constructive skill to keep shimmier go and using destrucive skill to stop shimmier. :laugh:
Quote
I feel close to solving "Breaking the Cycle" but haven't quite made it there yet.
The level requires a certain trick with stacker at the beginning and the level is pretty much self-solving after that. Let me know if you want some hints.
Time For Strongarm Tactics!I think I got the main trick. My solution requires a precise timing and I have a digger left so I suspect this is a minor backroute though.
All Things ConsideredIt was a pretty and nice level. I don't know if you intended but I think the water trigger area is little bit mis-positioned, so a climber can climber inside the pool.
Built To Rule The WorldIt was the hardest level so far for me in this contest. I have a blocker left though.
Lemmy Watch The StarsIt looks like a pretty standard Lemminas Level. I enjoyed it so much. :thumbsup:
Edit:Attached replay for Shoestring Operation
QuoteTime For Strongarm Tactics!
I think I got the main trick. My solution requires a precise timing and I have a digger left so I suspect this is a minor backroute though.
Parts are indeed intended, but it's still more than a minor backroute. A steel block should hopefully fix this though. ;)
Your solution to my R1 is totally acceptable and not very different from my own solution. :)
Nice solution Armarni. Your second & third quadrant method is quite different from mine and saves 2 builders. I thought it was possible someone could use a builder wall over the pool. My method was the use of two worker lemmings which build towards the centre of the pool.
However, I consider any solution that has the crowd walk through each quadrant as an homage to the Penrose Steps to be intended.
Quote from: Armani on May 20, 2020, 06:59:59 AM
Shoestring Operation
It was very impressive level. I had a lot of fun using constructive skill to keep shimmier go and using destrucive skill to stop shimmier. :laugh:
Glad you enjoyed it. Your solution is the intended one :thumbsup:
All in Good Timing solution attached. I could save another lemming by swapping a bomber for a digger on the short pole.
Quote from: JRT on May 20, 2020, 12:51:50 PM
All in Good Timing solution attached. I could save another lemming by swapping a bomber for a digger on the short pole.
Well done! But a backroute, so I made another update.
Spoiler
I thought it might be since I would have intersected the steel that used to be there. I somehow feel I should be building over the lower pool.
UPDATE: I think you need to extend the steel a few pixels more.
I attach my modified replay.
Yeah, you are thinking in the right (well, intended) direction now.
I made a V4. ;)
Uploaded my playthrough of rule 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-kTMOufhE4&feature=youtu.be
More will follow soon.
I also attached my replays.
Very good attempt Armani! Unfortunately, there is one central trick missing from your solution so I have to fix it :XD:
darn it @ichotolot lol you backrouted the hell out of lem lem time.
Haha yeah I just watched the video too. My R1V2 got a similar treatment, Icho doesn't like big builder levels. Now that we have the time manipulation functionality in NeoLemmix I quite enjoy the occasional chill marathon level, but I understand why most prefer much shorter levels.
The intended solution does test a few tricks with builders and management of the bashers, hence my insistence on closing all the backroutes from the second quadrant that I've been given.
When I release my level pack this will likely be placed as the boss level for the "Tricky" levels. I'm really pleased to be getting such good testing and feedback as something this size needs it.
Great Video IchoTolot!
I attach my replay for V4 for All in Good Timing.
Solved more, but really need a break now. ;P
Just 2 levels remain to be solved: Armani's R2 and DireKrow's R3. Would like to know if an attempt that failed by a pixel in Armani's R2 was close/intended.
Rule 2 vids:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvbeeTiA-kg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25JWLlDfBWk
Rule 3 vids:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuG_RXTymaY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7v9VcTUyluc
Replay collection attached.
Icho's "Shoestring Operation" solution is the intended one. Their solution to "Traipsing About Tombs" is the same as Armani's, so an intended alternate solution.
"Cheating at Sports" turned out to be pretty hard. If anyone's stuck on it, no worries! Here is hints for anyone that wants them:
Spoiler
Big Picture
The intended solution uses all of the skills, including the pickup. Changing the release rate is not necessary, but can help during at least one of the steps.
About The Rule
Deception is a key theme of this puzzle. Keep in mind the level's rule. Although it looks like each group is separate, it's necessary for them to help each other.
About The Goals
Although each goal can only accept 10 lemmings, keep in mind that it doesn't have to be the 10 from the hatch in the same quadrant as the goal. All 10 lemmings from one hatch don't necessarily need to go to the same one goal, either.
About The Terrain
Careful observation of the terrain helps a lot in this level. The positions of many of the objects and slopes are deliberate, as are the holes.
About The Pickup
View the pickup as a hint for where a lemming needs to go, rather than as an obstacle. What can a lemming do from in there?
About Destructive Skills
Don't forget that bashers can remove floors and diggers can remove walls. It may even be possible to do both at once.
About Constructive Skills
Sometimes, even the smallest of gaps require a platformer to cross. Sometimes, it's better not to cross large gaps at all.
About Athletic Skills
Figuring out where to use the climber is important. Which quadrant benefits most from a climber? What impact does that have on the solution as a whole? What can a climber do in the later stages of the puzzle that no other lemming can?
Specific Hint for Top-Left
Most of the top-left crowd is contained. They are the last group to have the path prepared for them, and are thus the last lemmings to exit the level.
Specific Hint for Top-Right
The pickup is not collected by a lemming from the top-right hatch. Consequently, a lemming from a different quadrant must enter this quadrant.
Specific Hint for Bottom-Left
A digger is not used in the bottom-left quadrant. The goal is reached via a different method, thanks to some outside help...
Specific Hint for Bottom-Right
All 10 of the lemmings from the bottom-right hatch exit via the bottom-right goal. They still use some outside help to get there, though...
Also attached the replays for anyone who has given up or just wants to watch the first few seconds for a hint on how to start. There's one for the V1 and V2 versions of the level, but it's the same solution.
I'm too ashamed. I don't want to do this any more.
And here are bunch of replays for rule3 levels!
Worng-side FailureI felt like this is very close to intended. Nice puzzle with clever use of the skills combination!
Get some rest and I hope you feel better soon Crane.
Cheating At SportsIt was another impressive level by you. :thumbsup: But I think I got a completely disjoint solution, so you need to fix it. ;P Another replay I attached has some interactions between the sections so it may be more close to intended I guess.
SwitcherooIt seemed easy at first but I failed several time because I was always 1 platformer short. And I finally found a way to save a platformer at the very beginning so solved the level. I very enjoyed it and like the concept of the level. :thumbsup:
QuoteWould like to know if an attempt that failed by a pixel in Armani's R2 was close/intended.
I saw your vid solving my level. And I can assure you the level is solvable and doesn't require any frame-precise or pixcel-precise things.
But I have to admit that there are some things that are impossible but look like they could work if they are optimized well which can confuse player. So I will make an update soon. And interestingly, one of your attempt is although not intended and bypass core trick, used every skill in same position as the intended solution. The difference is order of the skill and the lemmings who perform the skills.
One Thing At A TimeAs Crane already mentioned, this level definitely requires frame stepping and I even needed replay edit mode.
The Lion Sleeps TonightNice looking level with good music which I like. The only complain by me is that it was a little bit hard to tell which is terrain and which is empty space. So I had to use CPM often. Other than that, I like the level overall.
All in Good TimingI have some leftover skills. Not sure this is intended.
Oh and I didn't notice that the new level was added.
I like the clever use of the shimmiers and stackers.
Not sure if double stackers over the exit is intended or not but seems at least acceptable for me ;)
Quote from: Armani on May 21, 2020, 04:26:01 AM
Cheating At Sports
It was another impressive level by you. :thumbsup: But I think I got a completely disjoint solution, so you need to fix it. ;P Another replay I attached has some interactions between the sections so it may be more close to intended I guess.
2nd replay is the intended solution! The 1st replay is a backroute and violates the level rule, so I definitely need to fix that. Fortunately it's an easy fix, though it does make the intended solution a little more obvious. But considering the level's difficulty, that might not be a bad thing.
I watched Icho's video for my R2 level. It's definitely a backroute, and he certainly did some very interesting things with stackers, miners, and I think I saw a shimmier in there, too? In any case, it's played on the v1 version, but his backroute should in theory also be functional in v2 (I didn't attempt to run it on v2 to confirm, however). It's a different backroute than Armani's, but uses a similar tactic to get the crowd down from the entrance area. While I wasn't specifically targeting this backroute when I made v3, I expect the changes I made in v3 should be sufficient to patch this one.
Nice one Armarni, it looks like you found the other solution to One Thing at a Time.
Indeed, the use of frame stepping is key to the level.
Watching the replays back is amusing.
I attach my replay for V5 of All in Good Timing.
Quote from: JRT on May 21, 2020, 11:46:43 AM
I attach my replay for V5 of All in Good Timing.
Not intended, but a very nice (and acceptable alternative) solution that requires good timing too. :thumbsup:
I attached my intended solution for this level.
Haha, cheers! I might try and find your intended solution before having a gander at your replay.
I like the level. Have you had a crack at my Rule 3?
I attach my second replay for V5.
Ahh I tried something like the start your intended solution but missed the possibility of the pool build!
Both Armani and Icho got the intended solution for Lemmy Watch The Stars! I genuinely thought the level would be a challenge even for these guys. As impressed as I am however, these two are probs the best solvers on here so I can't say I'm surprised. ;P
@Armani - yours had a slight variation at the end, but it's more than acceptable as you solved all the main puzzle elements of the level and used all the skills. 8-)
@Icho - seeing you get it on the first attempt was quite something! :thumbsup: I like the fact that you took a look at the level for a few seconds, and then said "let's just go for it..." and then proceeded to solve it exactly as intended! :crylaugh:
These are a solid set of levels by the looks of things! I haven't had a look at any replays and I only watched Icho solving my level, so I'll have a go at them over the next few days and see if I can solve any of them! Might even do an LP of my own, actually...
EDIT: I have filmed an LP for Rule 1 (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4854.msg82609#msg82609) now. :lemcat:
Quote from: JRT on May 21, 2020, 12:47:35 PM
Haha, cheers! I might try and find your intended solution before having a gander at your replay.
I like the level. Have you had a crack at my Rule 3?
I did, but I gave up after a while and watched a replay. Very creative level! (But I'm not a very good level solver. I prefer creating levels. ;))
Quote from: JRT on May 21, 2020, 12:47:35 PM
I attach my second replay for V5.
Ahh I tried something like the start your intended solution but missed the possibility of the pool build!
But again, a nice alternative "good timing" solution.
Had a little session today and resolved/solved everything except Armani's R1 and R2. R1 is having me missing 1 skill regardless of it's type where R2 is having me missing pixels. ;P Those will need an extra session it seems.
DireKrow's R3 was pretty impressive and I think I finally found the intentional solution. :thumbsup:
I attached my replay collection. :)
@IchoTolot haha nice backroute :D I'll have to think about this one for a bit before V4
Quote from: IchoTolot on May 21, 2020, 03:10:14 PM
DireKrow's R3 was pretty impressive and I think I finally found the intentional solution. :thumbsup:
That is indeed the intended solution!
In regards to Icho's new replays:
There's definitely still an issue in my R2 level but it's going to take me some thought to figure out what to do about it. It'll probably be a couple days until I have a new patch ready.
R3 is an acceptable variant, though it looks like it was probably a bit harder to execute.
Finally solved Armani's R2! Impressive level! :thumbsup:
Clever, not precise and deceivingly hard without using extremely advanced tricks.
Attached the replay.
That leaves resolving Nessy's R2 and Armani's R1 for now. :)
Also Armani's solution for my R3 is totally acceptable, but the level is very open anyway. ;P
Re solved updated levels.
Some of them still seems not intended.
QuoteFinally solved Armani's R2! Impressive level! :thumbsup:
Intended! :thumbsup:
Actually, I first found that trick when making attempts to one of your level.(Journey to the Coast)
Yes, that needs a little update. That glider usage especially was completely unintended. :P
@JRT, just to make sure you see it: Just noticed the R3 update. Please make a new post for a new update and delete the old one, as then exactly this happens and I totally overlook it. ;)
QuoteYes, that needs a little update. That glider usage especially was completely unintended.
The level seems to need another fixes. :'(
First one definitely is a backroute and second one used every skill but a little bit hackish.
They are both unintended. Maybe the extra steel and the extra pick-up can do the trick.
The level already was quite difficult to fix even during my own testing, but I'll get there. ;)
Quote from: NieSch on May 21, 2020, 02:52:27 PM
I prefer creating levels. ;)
Yeah I think I'm in that camp too. :)
Quote from: IchoTolot on May 22, 2020, 07:32:57 AM
@JRT, just to make sure you see it: Just noticed the R3 update. Please make a new post for a new update and delete the old one, as then exactly this happens and I totally overlook it. ;)
Gotcha! Cheers, also after watching the video last night I was impressed that you had the fortitude to perform the algorithm using lemmings! It means it's too easy though, I might adjust a V2.
QuoteGotcha! Cheers, also after watching the video last night I was impressed that you had the fortitude to perform the algorithm using lemmings! It means it's too easy though, I might adjust a V2.
I 100% wouldn't call the algorithm method easy and watching the lemmings land seemed to be the only way to see where the current distribution is wrong. That leaves me with a question though:
What exactly is your goal with the R3 level if it is not letting the player slowly figure out the right combination through watching the lemming distribution and logical thinking?
Spoiler
You have to let the lems come out exactly in a way that no simultanious landings happen where you have to build. You do that through letting them choose 1 of 2 possible digger locations resulting in the lemming having a slightly longer or shorter path.
Having to do this left or right decision nearly simultaniously with 10 lemmings, which also do not spawn in order, can be quite tedious and even forced me to write down my previous decision combination to not forget it so that I am able to just adjust the pair of lemmings that is currently problematic.
So is your goal to be able solve the level by slowly decifer the right decision chain like I did or pure chance? I would advice against pure chance.
If it's another logical method though I would not object. That excludes unclear visual hints that the player has next to no chance of interpretating right though.
Resolved everything again. 8-)
Attached all my solutions.
I was especially impressed with the very likely to be intended solution to Armani's R1. :)
But also spotted a minor edit error in the level as a 1 pixel row of the upper left steel block of the middle square got erased. Should be an easy fix though.
I still smell some backroutes in other levels though.
Will make another video when all levels are somewhat finalised so I can give my final thoughts.
Here's my video LP of Rule 1 (https://youtu.be/u-BumnpDWvs)!
Once I've got my new laptop up and running I'll do LPs for Rules 2 and 3 as well. :lemcat:
After filming this, I managed to solve Icho's Stachenblochen via a more refined version of the solution attempted in the LP. Probably wasn't intended though as it uses a lot of backroutey techniques. (EDIT: Replay only works for V1 as it was indeed a backroute.)
Also managed to solve DireKrow's Traipsing About Tombs after filming - turns out that I had most of the correct elements of the puzzle figured out, but I just had to put them in the correct order!
Solved JRT's This Month's Tribute To M.C. Escher whilst filming the LP. This one felt like a backroute to be fair, but I did like the fact that the abundance of skills offered plenty of solution possibilities, and it was good to get one for the LP :thumbsup:
Meanwhile, I haven't got a clue how to solve Armani's, (Icho's), Mantha's or NieSch's levels. I did have another look at them, and they're just crazy hard. Onto Rule 2 methinks, hopefully I've have a better shot at those...
Successful replays attached.
QuoteEDIT: After filming this, I managed to solve Icho's Stachenblochen via a more refined version of the solution attempted in this video! Not sure if it's intended, but it does use most of the skills. Replay attached.
That replay sadly does not work anymore as the V2 I uploaded and included in the pack now has a steel ring around the middle block on which the exit rests.
@Nessy: I still got a blocker left.
Quote from: WillLem on May 22, 2020, 02:52:26 PM
Meanwhile, I haven't got a clue how to solve Armani's, (Icho's), Mantha's or NieSch's levels.
You were thinking in the right direction when it comes to my rule 1 level. Hint:
Spoiler
Use 3 bombers to go through the one way wall top left.
Quote from: WillLem on May 22, 2020, 02:52:26 PM
Also managed to solve DireKrow's Traipsing About Tombs after filming - turns out that I had most of the correct elements of the puzzle figured out, but I just had to put them in the correct order!
This is the intended solution, nice one!
Resolved updated levels.
Time For Strongarm Tactics!
I think I'm getting closer.
And your solution to my level is intended! That's what I wanted to enforce so the level title makes sense.
Built to Rule the World
Still I have some leftover skills ;P
All in Good Timing
I bet this is intended now
Quote from: Armani on May 23, 2020, 03:20:43 AM
All in Good Timing
I bet this is intended now
For 95%.
Spoiler
Building that bridge there at the right is a great idea that I'm going to steal to improve the level.
:thumbsup:
Watched Armani's most recent replay for my R2 level; as I suspected it's the same backroute as Icho's. It should hopefully be patched by now.
On the bright side, Athletic Rescue Operation has survived more iterations than Shimmier Sort before I ran out of ideas on how to fix it, so... improvement? :P
Armani used exactly the part of the level I thought it was ok not to alter it...well seems like it needs some steel as well. ;P
Also, I included Proxima's late Lix entry to the first post.
@WillLem, Great level. I attach my replay for Lemmey Watch the Stars.
Resolved everything and Proxima's new late entry.
Nessy's level should still be a backroute though.
Resolved updated levels
Time For Strongarm Tactics!
Backrouted again. And I think the level needs to be fixed a little bit after updated to neolemmix 12.9.1
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/58qj8O8.png)
Athletic Rescue Operation
Another backroute ;P
All Good Timing
I'm now 100% sure this is intended :laugh:
Quote from: Armani on May 24, 2020, 06:58:20 AM
All Good Timing
I'm now 100% sure this is intended :laugh:
It is. :party:
Another pick up it is + terrain changes to make it possible again. ;P
I also attached my solutions again as a replay broke in the new NL version (NieSch's "Stick Together").
My solution for V6. :P
Well, I couldn't account for that backroute in advance as this way to turn a climber+glider with a shimmier at a small ledge just became possible with the latest version. Should be fixed now though.
I attach my replay for Athletic Rescue Operation V4.
Spoiler
Climber Unused
Finally, this feels intended now. ;)
Very clever, how to get a non-climber lemming to the top was the main puzzle I think.
Quote from: Armani on May 26, 2020, 04:44:57 AM
Finally, this feels intended now. ;)
Very clever, how to get a non-climber lemming to the top was the main puzzle I think.
Finally this is intended! Good job! :thumbsup:
A little very difference from my solution:
Spoiler
I dug through the platform at the very end with the climber and go the longer route over the left level edge.
My replay for V9 All in Good Timing. I think this has now converged on your intended solution.
That was a fun level.
Spoiler
I do like the use of two sided pool builds as its a clean and simple way of forcing simultaneous workers.
Thanks and well done! That's a nice subtle variation in the use of the fifth sixth builder. :)
Resolved Dullstar's R2. I still got some bashers left over though.
@Armani: yep your solution is still a backroute.
@IchoTolot: actually your solution on the left hand side uses the intended trick but that right hand side is similar to Armani's solution and still very much not intended :P
Quote
@IchoTolot: actually your solution on the left hand side uses the intended trick but that right hand side is similar to Armani's solution and still very much not intended :P
I think I finally got it. ;)
Quote from: IchoTolot
I think I finally got it. ;)
Well done that's intended! :thumbsup:
I'm still backrouting V5. First one is trivial though, it's pretty much the same as my V4. The second one is a new one I found that saves another skill.
Spoiler
Swimmer saved by using the saved stacker after the builder.
I'm seeking a solution that requires the climber but every time I do, I think I'm short a Miner or Cloner
It's an extremely enjoyable level to play regardless.
@Icho: Definitely a backroute. The intended solution has at most one basher left over (one of them's only there to reduce execution difficulty but with optimal skill assignments there is a chance it may not be required). Furthermore, there shouldn't be any excess cloners to burn off at the end.
@JRT: I may have missed yours when checking replays for v4; I remember downloading two, and both replays I watched were essentially the same solution, so it's possible I may have accidentally loaded the same one twice instead of watching both. Also, you managed to use a precise basher placement to save one, though since you didn't use the basher you saved somewhere else it didn't really end up mattering.
I've used all the Cloners this time, but 4 leftover bashers and 2 leftover stackers are not a good sign. :P
Quote from: Dullstar on May 28, 2020, 10:45:54 AM
@JRT: I may have missed yours when checking replays for v4; I remember downloading two, and both replays I watched were essentially the same solution.
Yeah so in my last post. I have two replays for V5.
V5_JRT is as you said, basically the same as my V4.
V5_JRTb is slightly different and uses a stacker to save the swimmer.
I've had a gander at Tunnel Project. Looks tough, many levels I've played about with for ten mins or so and moved on hoping to be struck by inspiration.
Finally got around to filming the Rule 2 LP (https://youtu.be/4tC1xhHmjSk).
Please note that I am playing an early version of this pack, so some of these levels may have already had updates. I apologise if I'm playing an earlier version of your level, but you may still find the video informative and/or entertaining anyway (hopefully)! :lemcat:
Quote from: WillLem on May 29, 2020, 07:39:42 AM
Finally go around to filming the Rule 2 LP (https://youtu.be/4tC1xhHmjSk).
Please note that I am playing an early version of this pack, so some of these levels may have already had updates. I apologise if I'm playing an earlier version of your level, but you may still find the video informative and/or entertaining anyway (hopefully)!
mine has been updated but it wont matter anyway cos you didnt use the thing i had to block anyway. I really enjoyed watching someone play my level though I would say you way over complicated that :)
Quote from: mantha16 on May 29, 2020, 08:24:05 AM
mine has been updated but it wont matter anyway cos you didnt use the thing i had to block anyway. I really enjoyed watching someone play my level though I would say you way over complicated that :)
Does that mean my solution is intended/acceptable, then? :)
not intended but certainly accepted
Quote from: WillLem on May 29, 2020, 07:39:42 AM
Finally go around to filming the Rule 2 LP (https://youtu.be/4tC1xhHmjSk).
Please note that I am playing an early version of this pack, so some of these levels may have already had updates. I apologise if I'm playing an earlier version of your level, but you may still find the video informative and/or entertaining anyway (hopefully)! :lemcat:
I like your videos and LPs a lot so keep 'm coming! :)
Hints for my rule 2 level: you don't have climbers but you do have shimmiers. Use shimmiers as worker lemmings. Also: plan ahead and keep the title of the level in mind.
Thanks for the kind comment NieSch, and for the hint! I will have another at the level sometime, for sure. :lemcat:
Ha Dullstar I thought the racket was key to the level and was part of every one of my solutions. This explains why I couldn't for the life of me figure out the intended!
Nope, still got the bashers left on Dullstar's R2.
I attach my replay for V7.
The tennis racket actually was part of the intended solution in an earlier version of the level. It was first added as decoration, but when it wasn't burrowed into the terrain, a shimmier assigned from the intended location would get stopped by it. Rather than burrow it into the terrain initially, I simply added an additional miner to the skillset, which was used to cut through the tip of the racket and allow the shimmier to continue uninterrupted. This was changed in v4 when the miners were made into pickup skills to clean up the intended solution a little. It also makes it so that getting the shimmier started from the racket wouldn't also grant an extra miner, but that's not why that change was made.
To be honest, I may soon have to choose if I'm going to ask for help to fix the level, or if I need to choose a backroute to convert into a new intended solution, as I'm starting to wonder if there's no way to enforce the correct stacker placements (I actually expected people to try to backroute the level with the stackers, which is why the level's height is what it is, but certainly not in the manner they're actually being used. I guess once I know where the skills are supposed to be used I start becoming blind to other possible areas to use them).
If anyone has any thoughts on what I should do with this level going forward, I'd like to hear them.
(The post about the racket from JRT was the most recent post when I started typing this; looks like some more replays were submitted while I was typing)
Right yeah, so when i first played the level I was toying with shimmier stoppage at the racket, Also playing around with stackers was something I was thinking about a lot.
Icho's actually getting pretty close (JRT's is similar, but Icho's is a little closer),
but I'm unsure of any way to remove his current backroute. Adjusting the pickup skills is probably the only way,
but I'm not sure of a combination that would really work. I'll put this in a spoiler tag since it might imply some details of the solution, though it should still be vague enough not to give it away.
Why does Icho have extra bashers?
Icho skips a small portion of the level which uses two bashers (skipping this portion of the level also frees up a stacker to be used in an unintended area) and has a flow-control related skill placement optimization that allows a third to be saved (I have no plans to enforce this particular optimization, so the extra basher stays, but also don't consider it worth trying to remove).
In any case from the parts of Icho's replay that are acceptable I'm able to add a talisman for max 4 bashers, even if he saved that one in a different area than the one I was expecting.
@Dullstar, I think I may have backrouted the level as well: (link to correct part of video (https://youtu.be/4tC1xhHmjSk?t=1167)) - bear in mind that this is an early version of the levelpack, but the footage may be helpful anyway.
I feel this could be the intended solution now! @Dullstar
Quote from: WillLem on May 30, 2020, 05:30:26 PM
@Dullstar, I think I may have backrouted the level as well: (link to correct part of video (https://youtu.be/4tC1xhHmjSk?t=1167)) - bear in mind that this is an early version of the levelpack, but the footage may be helpful anyway.
I believe the fixes in recent versions likely address that backroute even if they weren't designed for it. In the event that you can still get it to work in the latest version, I'd like to know about it.
@Icho: That's pretty much it. That's certainly one way to turn the climber around, but it's certainly acceptable, since
Spoiler
using the stacker to turn the climber around is intended, though I used two stackers in the same location positioned such that the climber can't climb the stack instead of the football after the stack.
I see no need to further enforce the exact position I'd intended since the purpose was the same.
Quote from: Dullstar on May 30, 2020, 11:13:43 PM
I believe the fixes in recent versions likely address that backroute even if they weren't designed for it. In the event that you can still get it to work in the latest version, I'd like to know about it.
I can confirm that my solution doesn't work in V7. And, I now have no idea how to solve it! :crylaugh:
My solution to V8 of Athletic Rescue, plus a fun but pointless variation.
I've played through all updated levels again and showed my solutions:
Part 1 (All NL levels except mine): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwB9fDulb30
Part 2 (My levels): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6MKR1P1bYI
Part 3 (The Lix entry): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deX3GNbpl_4
Here's my own solution to "Thirteen Little Skills".
When is voting going to start on this?
QuoteWhen is voting going to start on this?
QuotePlaying Phase will be closed on 30th of June!
Updates will close on 27th of June!
After that I will set up the voting.
Resolved Crane's levels. :)
Sorry for the absence and weeks of reflection. Hopefully there's time to patch everything.
Another resolve of Crane's levels.
We're getting there! Thanks for the late playtesting.
Resolved. :)
That last one almost broke Splashdown again... but new versions are now up. I'll get this!
Resolving of Crane's levels and a solution to namida's level.
Regarding "Angel Wing": I don't know if my solution is intended, but even in this state the level is very enjoyable. :)
Your solution to Angel Wing is a backroute, though it isn't too far off.
Armani also found the same backroute (on Discord).
Resolved but still seems a bit off.
Re-backrouted V3 of Angel Wing. :'(
Another solution to V3 of Angel Wing. I feel that this may be a bit less backrouty but I still have a swimmer left over.
Both of you got the same backroute, again. I've put an update up.
I don't know why I didn't put this trap in before for Splashdown - easiest way to stop that little backroute and all of its variants. I almost wanted to give you that solution to Wrong-side Failure since you combined the 3 sections quite nicely, but so many tools left over, so... nope! Updates uploaded.
Here are the resolves.
I still believe that all are backroutes though.
Nope - Angel Wing is intended now.
Spoiler
The swimmer is yet another case of me including decoy skills.
You did not just do that on Splashdown!!!!
I was afraid something like that would happen with Wrong-side Failure though. Hopefully the next updates are more concrete.
Resolved.
Just to note I uploaded new versions a couple of days ago. Hopefully they're fixed at last... barely in time!
Saw it, but I am just not able to play at the time as I am at my hometown currently.
Still, your updates are perfectly viable.
I will most likely be back at the 30th and will then set up the voting phase over the next days. :)
Aah, that's good to know. Sorry I've left it so late.
Before the playing phase closes; here's my intended solution replay to Angel Wing. I believe this also doubles as a max-saved solution (saves 34), but feel free to prove me wrong.
And here are the intended solutions to my levels. You can complete Wrong-side Failure in a slower, more sloppy way (i.e. delay the Digger), but that doesn't net you the talisman.
I found a bug with the editor (that resulted in incorrect talisman requirements in the level) while making the intended solution replays for Athletic Rescue Operation, so now the version number for that level's reached double digits! I also noticed when I went through the thread to delete the v9 post that the v5 post somehow survived. Oops.
I'm not aware of any backroutes for Tunnel Project so that level's been comparatively simple to deal with. There actually is a v2 of the level, but I've chosen not to push the update, since it's just a style consistency change for when I put it in a level pack later, as that pack will not be using variable spawn interval or time limits. v1 is compliant with no time limits, since that's default, but the level was made shortly before I made the decision that the pack would not be featuring variable spawn interval at all (I'd already chosen not to use it for puzzles); thus, the spawn interval is not locked. All v2 did was lock the spawn interval, and I didn't want to push a contest update for that.
Anyway, here's the replays.
The talisman replay for Athletic Rescue Operation gets both talismans, but since Optimization Lv. 1 is to save one of the two optional bashers (provided for the player's convenience), and Optimization Lv. 2 is to save both optional bashers, the two optimzations featured in the replay can be applied independently of each other for two different ways to obtain Optimization Lv. 1.
As the playing phase end, here I attached replays of the intended solutions of my levels. :D