Lemmings Forums

(https://i.imgur.com/zucpeBi.png)

One year, one month, and one day after its initial release, here's the New-Formats version of Lemmings World Tour at last - the largest pack currently available for NeoLemmix!
This remastered version has had all levels adapted that originally featured radiation or slowfreeze.
I still encourage anyone who's interested to try out the original version for Old Formats (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=3988.0), which I will continue to maintain. It includes all levels the way they were originally intended to be!

A huge upside of the New-Formats version is the increased stability. The intense mixing of graphic sets in this pack led to more or less frequent crashes in Old Formats when loading up a level, requiring a simple but inconvenient restart of NeoLemmix 10.13. I have not seen this happen in the New-Formats version yet! :thumbsup:

The attached ZIP-Folder at the bottom of this post includes the custom success- and failure jingles, all sprite-set recolourings (including WillLem's Lemminas, which now appear on a couple of levels), as well as strato_generalmd, my modified version of the general tileset that used to exist in Old Formats. It contains some recolourings of various objects, Colorful Arty's rain and snow animations, as well as pre-placed builder staircases.
If you extract the folder in your core NeoLemmix folder, the styles and levels should automatically end up in their correct respective places.

This is the updated version of the graphic set and the pack for NeoLemmix 12.10.0.

My Instruments tileset is part of the official styles download now, as well as nin10doadict's cattrap.

Regarding the other tilesets formerly shared with this pack

The gigalem_treemdbright tileset that appears on the Old-Formats version is currently being automatically disabled by the NeoLemmix player - it will replace any instance of gigalem_treemdbright with gigalem_treemd. Therefore, it doesn't make sense to share the tileset in this thread anymore, because it wouldn't be visible on screen anyway. Consequently, I have replaced all instances of gigalem_treemdbright with gigalem_treemd in the actual levels themselves now. This is just another cosmetic change from Old Formats; the GigaLem Metal Mod levels actually also look slightly different now. I hope we will eventually get the freedom to choose between different shadings of the same tileset in form of a previously-discussed palette-swap feature.

(https://i.imgur.com/JGhglJ7.png)
God gave Rock 'n Roll to you*

The music pack can be found here. (https://www.dropbox.com/s/g6i82fdlg9w713y/Lemmings%20World%20Tour%20Music%20Pack.zip?dl=1)
It consists of my self-recorded rock/metal versions of all the standard Lemmings and Oh No! More Lemmings tunes, except for ONML 04 and the special graphics tracks (Beast, Menacing, and Awesome).
All instruments were played / recorded and all tracks mixed by myself.



For everyone new to this pack: Lemmings World Tour is based on the idea of a Lemmings band touring the world. Every main level is inspired by a song title, with the author line being used to credit the artist who originally performed the song (not necessarily the composer ;) ).

Hence, all the music is played with real instruments, including the success and failure jingles. The levels also depict as many different places in various countries across the globe. Thus, many level titles will refer to a song title and a geographical location at the same time. You will also usually find the flag of the respective country on each of those levels (examples see below).

This pack consists of a whopping 320 levels - 40 for each of the 8 ranks.
These ranks are named: Noisemaker, Amateur, Professional, Diva, Rockstar, Legend, Encore, and Groupie

It also ends with the largest level in existence - one that is too large to even be created with or properly displayed by the New-Formats editor, but was converted from Old-Formats directly, together with the entire pack.
It is strongly advised to switch off the high-quality minimap when playing the very last level (Groupie 40) - game fluency will improve drastically that way. ;)

With that out of the way, let's take a closer look at the ranks! ;)

NOISEMAKER
This rank is all about teaching you essential mechanics of the game and vital, but maybe somewhat obscure skill tricks - rather than the usual X-of-everything levels you might find on the lower ranks in other packs! Pay close attention to the pre-level texts, they can give you essential hints! ;) Also, beware the occasional troll level. There is a certain infamous, lemming-eating Octopus hiding on this rank, and one of the two levels shown below requires the lemmings to dive in a fountain. Sometimes, this pack will put visual aesthetics over strict, mechanical fairness, but it is the exception rather than the rule.

Noisemaker Intended Trick List

Level 01, "I clicked a Lem; I liked it!": Destructive skills tank on steel, constructive skills turn around when building into terrain.
Level 02, "I love Rock 'n Roll": one lemming will always slip past a stacker at release rate 1 or higher (with a single hatch)
Level 03, "Into the pits": Basher- and Digger pits to contain lemmings
Level 04, "Going under": It is more efficient to go through larger chunks of terrain in one piece than to waste destructive skills on single smaller obstacles.
Level 05, "Over the rainbow": turning around Miners and Builders with Blockers
Level 06, "Ordinary world":1-of-everything level
Level 07, "Pick me up before you go-go": pickup skills, pre-placed lemmings
Level 08, "Glide and joy": to turn around a lemming on an even steel surface, you can build, then dig, then build into the remnants of the first staircase
Level 09, "Grenade": use release-rate increase to get past triggered traps
Level 10, "Noel nouvelet": 1-of-everything level with NeoLemmix skills
Level 11, "Can't stop this thing we started": build across Digger shafts to force lemmings to fall through facing in one direction only (=Dolly-Dimple trick)
Level 12, "We're not gonna take it": cut off a Builder's staircase behind him to isolate him as a pioneer
Level 13, "Paranoid": horizontal one-way arrows can be dug into, but vertical one-way arrows can't be bashed through
Level 14, "Digital world": exit buttons; digging to create a Climber path
Level 15, "Octopus's garden": introduce the Disarmer, and the fact that Strato likes animal traps! :P
Level 16, "Jump!": six-pixel jumps
Level 17, "How to save a life": using Stoners as stepping-stones for Builders; getting a second pioneer lemming by trapping the crowd at the foot of a wall and then having one lemming glide over whatever is holding the others back
Level 18, "Stop and stair": three-builder wall, sealing off Basher tunnels with Builders (reverse logic of level 12)
Level 19, "Lemming, I hardly knew ya!": It is possible to fall and climb through Blockers; this allows you to free them with Diggers.
Level 20, "Flight of the bumblebee": the flying-Builder trick (building in mid-air before the Digger falls down)
Level 21, "Rainbow in the dark": cancel one Miner with a Miner into the opposite direction
Level 22, "Locked away": Climbers can be contained by putting constructive skills at the top of straight walls
Level 23, "Shatter me": assigning Floaters and Gliders early or late to influence their speed
Level 24, "Hells bells": making Miners continue with Builders
Level 25, "Bash to you": Bashers can move down slopes
Level 26, "Don't stop me now": cancel one Digger with a Digger looking in the opposite direction --> re-use the Dolly-Dimple trick from Level 11 at the end!
Level 27, "Don't bring me down": You can move Bashers down (see level 25) by digging under them while they are bashing.
Level 28, "Bashing through the snow": cancelling Bashers mid-swipe with Walkers and Builders
Level 29, "Behind blue eyes": isolating a pioneer lemming from behind the crowd instead of from the front
Level 30, "In the army now": using terrain to turn lemmings around before destroying it to let them through in the opposite direction (adaptation of the Dolly-Dimple logic)
Level 31, "The one that go away": using lemmings slipping past Stackers to your advantage
Level 32, "Where them Lems at": using Basher tunnels in creation to turn lemmings around that couldn't turn around anymore once the tunnel is completed
Level 33, "Mein kleiner grüner Kaktus": using Blockers to cancel Diggers that only dig on the edge and don't have terrain right beneath them
Level 34, "Takes two to tango": the double-Builder turnaround (having two Lemmings build right next to each other will cause the one on the front to bump against the staircase of the Builder behind him and turn around)
Level 35, "While my Lemming gently builds": applying the logic from level 32 to use a Builder staircase in-creation to get a lemming across a water pond; once the Builder is finished, this path is closed off completely
Level 36, "Pull me under": putting a Blocker on a staircase to later free him with a Basher
Level 37, "Running up that hill": Bashers can also slope up (see level 25) when facing towards indestructible terrain at a low angle
Level 38, "Rock, Paper, Scissors": Stackers can be used to fill the space between a Stoner's hands and feet, thereby creating a straight wall of 6 pixels in height, which the Lemmings can jump (see level 16) over
Level 39, "Vegas Lights": Stoners can be used to make Swimmers dive
Level 40, "Absolute beginners": Many newbie solutions involve excessive use of Blockers and/or Builders - start looking for approaches without either of them (only for the talisman)!

(https://i.imgur.com/2nAneVE.png)
Vegas Lights
(https://i.imgur.com/WDSRFia.png)
Grenade

AMATEUR
On these levels, the skills are grouped thematically (upward-moving, downward-moving, destructive, creative etc.), and the more advanced objects get introduced, such as pre-assigned skills and pre-placed lemmings, splitters, force fields, and teleporters. More landscape-like levels start occuring towards the end of the rank.

Amateur Intended Trick List

Level 01, "It's a long way to the top": all upward-moving skills
Level 02, "Timber (It's going down!)": all downward-moving skills
Level 03, "Walking on sunshine": all horizontally-moving skills
Level 04, "Stairway to Heaven": all diagonally-moving skills
Level 05, "Sugar Baby Lem": all destructive skills
Level 06, "Cliffs of Dover": all constructive skills + Climbers can get over Stackers, but not Stoners
Level 07, "Join me in death": all lethal and "reviving" skills
Level 08, "Who let the dogs out?": Disarmers + pickup skills
Level 09, "Greensleeves": pre-assigned-skill hatches, re-use the Stacker-Stoner trick (Noisemaker 38, only for the talisman)
Level 10, "I like to move it, move it!" splitters
Level 11", Whole lotta Lems": using destructive skills to create Climber paths
Level 12, "Smoke on the water": using water to break falls
Level 13, "Ayo Technology": radiation - using Blockers and Cloners to navigate radiating lemmings
Level 14, "Meet me halfway": Miners and Builders can cross through each other and both continue
Level 15, "Ring, Ring": re-using previous tricks (Stackers create Climber paths, lemmings slip by Stackers, building into terrain or bashing into indestructible terrain to turn lemmings around)
Level 16, "Slide it in": Gliders and Floaters can exit mid-air
Level 17, "Float": Swimmers will always move to the top of water areas, and Gliders will always move to the top of updrafts
Level 18, "Tears in Heaven": using one-way fields to turn around Miners and possibly Builders
Level 19, "Holding out for a hero": pre-assigned skills to pre-placed lemmings
Level 20, "Take me to your Heaven": teleporters
Level 21, "You can't play with broken Lems": anti-splat pads
Level 22, "Firework": using the nuke to bomb towards the exit; re-use turning a lemming around in a Basher tunnel (Noisemaker 32)
Level 23, "Fields of gold": one-use traps
Level 24, "Wonderwall": bouncing Bashers off of Blockers and one-way fields
Level 25, "Radioactive": using radiation as a tool to bypass radiation as a trap
Level 26, "Like ice in the sunshine": slowfreeze
Level 27, "Don't fear the Reaper": compression method to get past traps (re-use logic from Noisemaker 9)
Level 28, "Zombie": zombies

Starting from level 29, the levels are open-ended. The landscape levels also start showing up from here.

(https://i.imgur.com/TfounHh.png)
Shipping up to Boston
(https://i.imgur.com/nMGRl60.png)
Georgia on my mind

PROFESSIONAL
The first levels of this rank are going to test what you've learned about the skills so far, requiring several of the previously-introduced tricks, but now without prior announcement! ;) Also be prepared to navigate some pretty huge cities, as you're playing in more and more important locations around the world.
(https://i.imgur.com/pqKbfAf.png)
Moskau, Moskau
(https://i.imgur.com/fpvp5mz.png)
Streets of London

DIVA
Now you can really start showing off your skills - but don't get too cocky yet! ;) There are still much harder songs coming...
(https://i.imgur.com/8vHk5ZK.png)
Weiße Rosen aus Athen
(https://i.imgur.com/rNTxZka.png)
Barcelona

ROCKSTAR
If you want to play on the big stage, you must master how to control the crowd. Can you hold them back when you have to, and make them move when you want them to?
(https://i.imgur.com/eAfpk9Q.png)
Streets of Philadelphia
(https://i.imgur.com/ipghcmo.png)
Cold Turkey

LEGEND
The songs on this rank will be remembered for all eternity. In other words: Probably just as long as solving these levels might take you! :P
(https://i.imgur.com/X8DJRGi.png)
Ganglem Style
(https://i.imgur.com/mh8genD.png)
The Phantom of the Opera

ENCORE
Here you can find levels from my preceding, Old-Formats packs (Paralems, Pit Lems, and Lemmicks) that also were named after song titles. The only one missing is "Turn this club around!" from Lemmicks. Without that one, there were exactly fourty of them, so I thought they would be a good fit here. They were not selected for their quality, though - but indeed mainly for their titles. ;) So definitely expect these to be easier than the previous ranks, but that might be a welcome relief after the hard stuff! ;) Also, due to the absence of gimmicks, the Lemmicks levels usually have completely different solutions compared to their first appearance.
(https://i.imgur.com/Lx3l6G0.png)
We are the Lempions (Pit Lems)
(https://i.imgur.com/0zFcbQl.png)
All along the watchtower (Lemmicks)

GROUPIE
These levels were created by Colorful Strato and incendoadict: I identified the signature level-design features of most of the active content creators, and then built a level for each of them pretending I were them! ;) Some people have even had several levels dedicated to them - and no, the "author" line is not being used to spoil that for you. Which level was inspired by whom, that is something you'll have to discover for yourself! :P Many of these levels are still named after songs, in which case the author line will mention the performing artist, just like before. Other levels will have non-song names, and therefore no author line either.
(https://i.imgur.com/G3BBz4G.png)
Bon appetit!
(https://i.imgur.com/nhcaqzx.png)
Take a Byte

Have you taken a guess at which user inspired which Groupie level? ;) Then you can check whether you're correct right here:

Groupie rank level list

Level 01: When the cat's away...

nin10doadict. His level "Yum Yums" was the first to really introduce me to Raymanni's Food tileset. Plus, I just wanted to make a level with a cat in a kitchen :D . Since nin10doadict was the first one to ever LP a pack of mine, the honour of opening the Groupie rank goes to him. Signature element, aside from the cat trap, obviously, is the compression method required at the end.

Level 02: That's a hard level that is!

Flopsy. Hence, it uses all of his graphic sets that were available at the time of the creation of this level in conjunction (Star Zone and Scrap Brain). Aside from being a standard Hard-for-Flopsy level with release rate 99 and Lemmings headed for immediate death, it also contains a glider-stoner combination at the beginning that's pretty whacky. I didn't know back then that glider-stoner stuff was another Hard-for-Flopsy trademark, though :) . It just happened, and now I'm glad it's in there, because it just fits perfectly! Also, back when I made this level, I didn't know yet either that Flopsy had made Hard-for-Flopsy levels himself in SEB Lems. So yeah, it's both a level "inspired by Flopsy" as well as "hated by Flopsy".
"Poking fun at how people talk-count: 01" :evil:

Level 03: Waking up the neighbours

Proxima. Look to his post at the beginning of the thread, he basically outlined everything perfectly :) . "Waking up the neighbours" was chosen because a) Proxima means "the neighbour" in Latin, and b) because some of the lemming crowds can break into the neighbouring "rooms" / disjoint unions, creating a solution with the single chambers interacting with each other.

Level 04: Praise be to God!

Colorful Arty. This level combines pretty much everything I wanted to put into it: A "Boss fight" level, as they appear at the end of each rank in SubLems; a level with a very small number of Lemmings (4); one that uses one of Arty's tilesets (Lego); one that requires two skills to pass through each other (digger and basher); and, finally, if you actually carry out that solution, guess what you get? A cross! :thumbsup:
I combined Lego and Sky to create the "cliché image" of a God as a face in the Sky with a big white beard. And since "thou shalt not make for yourself an idol" - in German, people translate this as "you shall not make for yourself an image of God", i.e. don't try to imagine what he looks like - the level in itself also creates a great justification to destroy the landscape with bashers and diggers. These Lemmings aren't attacking God, you know; they're merely destroying an image that shouldn't have existed in the first place. :D
"Poking fun at how people talk-count: 02" :evil:

Level 05: No true Scotslem

Nessy. Okay, I know he's not actually Scottish ;) . But this level doesn't claim to be a true Scotsman, does it? It's a level pretending to have been made by Nessy, but that isn't the case. It only relies on the Mineshaft tileset, which Nessy made frequent use of in Lemmings Migration. Also, the intended solution uses the basher-blocker turnaround trick, which I had to use twice in Lemmings Migration - even though Nessy told me it isn't actually part of his intended solution in either of those levels. Additional elements are the usage of a builder to prevent a climber from going up to a lethal fall height, and using a miner tunnel in-creation to turn around a second lemming.
The title is a reference to the No true Scotsman-logical fallacy, where you dismiss a valid counter-example against a claim of yours. The original scenario goes like this:
Person A: "No Scotsman puts sugar in his porridge."
Person B: "My uncle Angus is Scottish, and he does put sugar in his porridge."
Person A: "No true Scotsman puts sugar in his porridge!"
Little detail: The tripped-over mine cart in form of an additional, fake exit tilted sideways and spilling gold pieces on the terrain. That's a neat visual gimmick Nessy used in Lemmings Migration, which sadly won't be possible in New Formats anymore.

Level 06: Stacks and stones

Raymanni. Uses his Snow tileset because it looks the most Finnish ;) . Signature element is the stacker-stoner combination, i.e. using a stacker to enable the crowd to six-pixel-jump over a stoner. I had just heard of this trick for the first time here on the forums right around the time when I picked up on playing Raylems again - and then, Raylems was nice enough to confront me with a snow level where I had to put it into practice right away.

Level 07: (K)itty compression

nin10doadict. Pretty much his level building style 1 on 1: LPIV Space tileset + Time limit + having to bash through a wall from two sides because of said time limit + compression method to get past lots and lots of kitties. The level is called (K)itty compression because nin10doadict's own cat is actually called Itty; she had several guest appearances during his LP of my Pit Lems pack. You can notice these whenever nin10doadict shouts "My Itts!" during the videos - hence the pre-level screen ;) .
Meanwhile, nin10doadict does have his own graphic sets, i.e. Tetris Attack and Lava, but neither of these were available at the time of the creation of this level.

Level 08: Icho chambers

IchoTolot & Proxima. Go figure, right? ;) This is not a level inspired by his level building style, though - instead, something IchoTolot explicitly mentioned he hates: Disjoint unions. I made the chambers interact with each other via the teleporters, because IchoTolot mentioned this as a possible redeeming quality for disjoint union levels in his eyes. That way, the level became more similar to Proxima's level building style again. Thinking about it, I could have made it more "IchoTolot rage-quits" by adding in hidden traps... :devil: But I didn't think about it back then, and the level is complicated enough in the fair version that it is now.

Level 09: Wrong.

Duuduu. If you pay close attention, you notice the dot after the level title. This is already the first signature thing, because Duuduu somehow likes to put a period in his level title lines. Also, his level titles tend to be - at least in my personal opinion, no offense ;) - a bit generic; like, for example, "A normal level" from "A Master Degree in Lemmings", which was the main inspiration for this one (and is actually a pretty awesome and unique level :thumbsup: , merely disguised by what I in this case believe to be an intentionally generic title). I just combined it with a bit of fiddly crowd control on very thin pieces of terrain, because that's something Flopsy noticed as a repeating element during his LP of "A Master Degree in Lemmings". And I used the Marble tileset, because this seems to be the one Duuduu used the most in said pack.

Level 10: Read my lips

Flopsy. Just in case you hadn't already noticed from the letters "SEB" placed clearly visible in the level. Or by, you know, the fact that I openly state this level is for Flopsy in the pre-level screen. This one was an easy choice, given the song title premise of Lemmings World Tour: Just go with a reasonably successful song by SEB that Flopsy hadn't used in SEB Lems himself. ;) Then make a big and complex Marble level with some random pickup skills dispersed throughout it, similarly to Flopsy's "Crash Course" or "Tricks of the Trade" level series. Curious little detail: Notice how the "lips" in the level actually form the letters "S", "E", and "B" next to them! ;)
I'm gonna refrain from spoiling who "SEB" is at this point, because that falls into the domain of SEB Lems itself. But obviously, if you just put the level title into YouTube, you're going to find out, anyway.

Level 11: Killed by death

SQron. The pre-text gives a hint about this by using several words containing the letters "SQ", which are all written as capital letters. And yeah, Motörhead's "Killed by death" actually starts with the line "If you squeeze my lizard, I put my snake on you". :D
Most of SQron's levels in the "Snack Pack" used Oh no! More Lemmings graphic sets, with Bubble being the most common one. Compression method also was used. I just made the debatable decision of going with the Rock chameleon trap - a) because of "squeeze my lizard", and b) because I wanted to sneak in a hint about "snacky Lemmings", referencing the Snack Pack. Little did I know back then that this was the fastest trap in the entire game! :) So you have to get a little creative with your compression methods; simply increasing the release rate won't cut it! ;)
Also, at the end there are several of the chains from the ONML Brick tileset placed right next to each other, creating a very rapid upward staircase. This was also used in a Snack Pack level.

Level 12: Tin Limmings on this livel

namida. Tree-tileset + bombing climbers + lots of miner-builder interactions. Also the part in the beginning where you have to seal off a hole between two tree trunks with a builder before other lemmings fall in is taken from a Lemmings Plus level, "Just breathe".
"Poking fun at how people talk-count: 03" :evil:

Level 13: You know you make me wanna shout

Nepster & Colorful Arty. This is my attempt at one of these "fine lines of terrain" mazes as they typically appear in the Marble tileset. The original version of this level took aeons to create, because of all the thin terrain pieces, and the solution was way too dull. So I threw that away in favour of something less microscopic with a more interesting solution. This one strays pretty far from its sources of inspiration, namely things like "Don't cross me" from NepsterLems and "Labyrinth of Lucifer" from SubLems. But I feel it benefitted the overall quality of this particular level.
The title should still tell you how I generally tend to feel about these visually confusing fine-line Marble mazes! :devil:

Level 14: Scot-free

Nessy. The Brick tileset is the other one frequently used in Lemmings Migration. Signature elements are building across a digger shaft to make the lemmings fall through facing only in one direction - like in "Dolly Dimple" from ONML, but Nessy required this e.g. in "Cringe comedy". Also, isolating a lemming from behind a crowd, building across a gap from two sides, and stopping the crowd by bombing next to a steel block are all things I did to solve "A bridge across the chasm" from Lemmings Migration.

Level 15: Take a Byte

Wafflemm. Not only does this level contain the mandatory myriad of buttons and pick-up skills; it also contains Wafflemm's forum avatar in some fashion. Since that iconic structure made from pipes from the Bubble tileset is supposed to simulate a waffle, I thought it would go best with the Food tileset. Wafflemm himself mentioned in a stream that the only thing the Food tileset was missing was waffles! ;)
The title may be a reference to Lemming Bytes, obviously - which happens to go nicely with the Food tileset here ;) - but actually, most of this level is inspired by Wafflemm's smaller pack, "WaffLems" (which I don't have, unfortunately; I only watched Flopsy's LP of it). There was one Beach level in particular where Lemmings fall from the hatch right into an animal trap, gliders have to be used to bypass it, and a reverse basher is needed to make a wall climbable.
Finally, Wafflemm has the habit of labeling his pre-skilled lemmings' hatches with two pickup skills on both sides, rather than one pickup skill above it. So this is another little detail you can guess it from - just in case the rest of the level didn't make it glaringly obvious to you yet ;) .

Level 16: All for love

Colorful Arty & nin10doadict. I wasn't able to solve Arty's level "Sniper range", so I looked up the solution in his own LP of SubLems... and thought: "Hey, this can be done with fencers as well!" So I came up with something in the Medieval graphic set, because fencers obviously go well with dragon traps, flavour-wise :D . The fact that you have an infinite amount of fencers though makes this one more akin to the Troll rank levels from nin10doadict's CasuaLemmings.
All for Love is the title song to a Three Musketeers movie, and since you have to unite a lot of Fencers, I thought this was an appropriate choice ;) .

Level 17: I am E.T.

Colorful Arty. This is pretty much a straight remake of his SubLems level "I am R.T.", which in itself is already a parody of the original Sunsoft level "I am A.T.". So it's basically a parody of a parody ;) . But it is also a reference to the Retro rank of SubLems, of course, where Arty came up with new solutions to existing original Lemmings levels. It's just that I did the same thing to one of his levels now! In contrast to the Retro rank though, this level is a lot easier than the one it was inspired by, because you have to go the other way round.
Fun fact: I had to rebuild this level by hand, because Arty cleverly switched off the option to dump the level files in the main menu of SubLems. But with a rather regular terrain shape like this one, that wasn't enough to stop me! :P

Level 18: Le vent nous portera

Pieuw. PimoLems used degrees of wind intensity as rank names, and Pieuw is from France, so I needed a somewhat successful French song title refering to the wind in one way or another. The title means "The wind will carry us", and actually, that's quite fitting to the solution of the level, which requires a lemming to start building while another one is bashing through a wall, so that this basher simultaneously cuts off the staircase behind the builder, preventing the crowd from following. This is a pretty unique trick I learned in a Brick level from PimoLems, so I just had to go with that!

Level 19: All you zombies

Strato Incendus. Or can you imagine anyone else who likes Zombies and Slowfreeze? :P Yeah, this one was shameless self-aggrandising. It didn't start out as a Zombie- or Slowfreeze level, though: All I wanted to do was enforcing a Basher going down a Fencer tunnel. So I needed some way to re-obstruct that Fencer tunnel with terrain. Having a bunch of uncontrollable lemmings (Zombies) petrify inside that tunnel without the player wanting them to (Slowfreeze) was the best way I could come up with. Also, I wanted to exploit the fact that at a certain height of terrain under water, non-climber swimmers will dive under it while climber-swimmers will climb up.

Level 20: Bon appetit!

Pieuw, Colorful Arty, Wafflemm, Raymanni... Food levels aren't really anyone's exclusive signature thing. This is essentially a combination of all Food-relating structures I could find in various packs: The cheese from "Lemburger Cheese / This level stinks" and the cake from "Piece of cake! / Cakewalk" (Arty's SubLems), the lemonade from "Lemming Soda" (Pieuw's PimoLems), the before mentioned waffle and the Pillar-tileset Hamburger from "Lemburger" (Wafflemm's Lemmingbytes), the Food graphic set by Raymanni. I did recreate all the structures myself by hand, though, no copy-pasting from other people's levels... and so, I added in some pieces of my own, like the ice cream, the pizza, and the french fries :) . So now I've contributed my share to the pot-luck dinner party!

Level 21: Kiwi knights in white satin

Zanzindorf. Using his signature Kiwi knight tileset, this one requires two pioneer lemmings, as many of his levels do. Also, digging into a chamber to use it as a climber-turnaround facility is quite neat, plus sending a lemming up somewhere and bomb him as a faller to free the crowd.

Level 22: We are yung

Yung Gotenks. Signature elements are the abundance of walkers, platformers, and builders, plus the Hell graphic set, since Yung Gotenks made an entire pack consisting only of Hell levels... and the fact that the level overall is comparatively easy. No offense here! ;) The way the pioneer lemming is isolated is a little tricky though, I took this from one of the more challenging levels from Yung Gotenks's packs, can't remember which one it was, though, unfortunately.
The title was really fitting, because the song "We are young" actually contains the line "so we set the world on fire", which goes nicely with the Hell tileset! :D

Level 23: The Earth Song

bulletride. Essentially a combination of the Lemmings Stampede levels "Deep Six" and "A walk in the park", this one requires the crowd to do something while a builder bridge is being built - because once the bridge is completed, it isn't possible to mine in the right spot anymore.

Level 24: Dove is in the air

Dodochacalo. DoveLems taught me this neat little trick of using several diggers to make some space, then use that space to build and close off a basher tunnel, making that basher the pioneer lemming. One of the most creative ways of crowd control I've come across so far! Enforcing it was a little difficult, though, I hope the fire traps at the top of the level are enough...
Also, forcing all lemmings of one crowd to become climbers is a thing in DoveLems, plus the idea of sealing a little gap between two walls to make them climbable. Though one of my levels in Lemmings World Tour also requires the same thing, only with a stacker.

Level 25: Part of ze Reunion

IchoTolot. I couldn't go with having only a "hate" level in here for IchoTolot, right? ;) So first of all, this level obviously uses IchoTolot's City tileset, which I've made great use of for creating all the geographical locations here in Lemmings World Tour. But there's also a neat little trick I learned from IchoTolot, and that is the fact that a digger who is digging so far at the edge of a piece of terrain that there actually isn't any ground beneath his centre can be cancelled by assigning a blocker to him. The only way to make a digger dig so far at the edge though is to place a builder or platformer there first, and then start digging while the lemming is halfway on that bridge. Additionally, the way the crowd has to be controlled here is fairly common in Lemmings Reunion, to my mind. Finally, what I did to namida, I can't spare IchoTolot from: Pronouncing "th" like "z" is a thing typical of many Germans when speaking English ;) .
"Poking fun at how people talk-count: 04" :evil:

Level 26: Clam-a-Lem-a Ding Dong

Clam. Apart from the Beach tileset, a thing that's very common in Clammings is vertical scrolling. Few other content creators use it that frequently. This level isn't very complicated, mainly because I haven't gotten too far on Clammings yet - I've played through most of the 10-of-everything levels, and most of the slightly complex levels are already complex enough to stomp me :sick: . But this one is slightly inspired by "Bucket list", and makes use of several NeoLemmix skills that Clam has used quite often in his pack (platformers and stoners, namely).

Level 27: Deceit and destruction

Deceit. I couldn't really come up with a better name here: What I wanted to hint at is that Deceit's Lemmings contains a lot of levels relying on destructive skills, oftentimes intentionally not providing any creative skills at all, or only so few of them that you only have enough for the bare necessities, i.e. gaps. Every other obstacle has to be overcome by some creative combination of destructive skills. I was pretty impressed by that, so I hope I was able to recreate it somewhat successfully...! :)

Level 28: Hiroshima

GigaLem. Freedom planet graphic set + Zombies + Radiation. With Resident GigaLemmings, there is an entire pack dedicated to Zombies, the only one in this fashion I know of, apart from namida's original Doomsday Lemmings, of course. Radiation appeared in the Millas pack, but mostly in the fair form that I have come to use as well, i.e. providing you with enough blockers to stop the radiant lemmings, and only using radiation in the first place in order to limit the area where the bombing can occur. This one is fairly far away from its source of inspiration, though; I really wanted to have this place and song in here, so that there would be a famous song refering to Japan. And the Freedom planet tilesets look Japanese, especially the Dragon one, with these iconic trees.
By the way: This one was the very last level in the pack I finished. And I hated every second of it. Not because of the execution, though; I just had such a hard time coming up with something creative here! ;) Also, the terrain had to be adjusted quite a lot to give one of the pioneer lemmings enough time to escape from the zombies... the radiation actually wasn't the issue here, but Zombies are moving objects as well, after all. But now, everything works fine, and the player shouldn't face any execution trouble with this level. ;)

Level 29: Every Geoff you take

Geoffster. Signature visual element is the steel boat at the bottom, with the side scuttles. Signature mechanic is the necessity to use a turned-around builder to gain 1 pixel in height and get over a wall. The second part of the level was inspired by "Planks", as well as its rerun.

Level 30: Joga

Mobius / Call me Bronco. Originally, I wanted to name the level "Call on me, Bronco", referring to the song "Call on me" made famous by Eric Prydz. But then, I read about mobius's hobby of meditation, and thought, fine, let's make the level refer to East Asian practices instead ;) . An alternate contender for the level title was "Occidentali's Karma", a song by Italian singer Francesco Gabbani from last year about how modern Westerners pick up Eastern customs. But it's pretty much only known inside the Eurovision Song Contest crowd. So I went with this much more famous song by Icelandic singer Björk instead.
Signature elements are the double-duty use of a builder initially required to seal off a water pond, with that builder also being required as part of the path for the later solution. Also, the way to isolate the pioneer lemming here is something I've learned exclusively from mobius: Placing a reverse staircase under the hatch, so that all lemmings go to the left, and then using the last lemming from the hatch (who's still facing to the right) to build the second staircase.
Little visual element: Notice the "torches" that you typically find on top of exits, placed as separate objects everywhere in the level. This is a thing Mobius frequently does, which will sadly disappear, too, in case of a New Formats conversion.

Level 31: Ya ochen rad...

GigaLem. The full title of this Russian song is "Ya ochen rad, ved ya, nakonets, vozvraschayus domoy", translating to "I am very glad, as I'm finally returning back home". But you all know it under a different title ;) . Yes, folks, it is the Trololo song! And it was chosen because GigaLem's first pack, GigaLems, contained a lot of troll elements - not only hidden traps, which is annoying because that pack is only playable in NeoLemmix 1.43, i.e. without clear physics mode - but also exits covered in bricks, which look like normal exits, though. This particular visual trick only works with the Marble tileset. Also, GigaLems contains a lot of levels where you have to get something done before the crowd arrives, meanwhile that crowd goes on an odyssee across a long path of terrain to give you a little more time.

Level 32: Fernando

Alberto Fernandes. His pack "Be smart!" contains lots of random flags, as used in the original two-player levels, placed throughout the levels. Also a lot of steel. On top of that, most of his levels require just a tiny bit of ever-so-slight vertical scrolling. So I literally built than in here, too, just for the sake of it.

Level 33: We don't need another hero

Deceit. Yeah, Deceit's Lemmings also happens to contain a lot of very innovative Hero levels, i.e. one of every classic skill, like in the original level "It's hero time!" Since this refers to the skill set, I obviously couldn't combine it with Deceit's other trademark of emphasizing destructive skills so much. So he earned himself two levels in the rank! ;)

Level 34: I see fire

kieranmillar. The beginning is something I came up with myself, that happened to turn out more challenging than expected in a pleasantly surprising way. The actual signature trick comes at the end: Here you need to free a blocker by bombing another lemming right next to him, so that a third lemming turns around and falls into the bomber pit, from which he can then start bashing to go underneath a bunch of fire traps. You can't do this from the other side, lest the crowd would walk up into the fire traps while bashing.
So yeah, you don't want your lemmings to see fire, obviously. But the title also enabled me to put the hint about the level inspiration into the author line for the first time! ;) (The level is credited to "Ed Kieran".)

Level 35: Fly me to the moon

Colorful Arty. I think this makes Arty the user with the most dedicated levels in this rank. Which is kind of deserved, given that his level design overall inspired huge portions of this pack - and that he showed interest in LPing it early on! :) This particular level, however... is not necessarily a reason for celebration. I knew about this trick, but I didn't think of it as one of Arty's signature things until I got to the Hellish rank of SubLems, where you have to do this nasty flying builder-stuff twice. I couldn't fit it into any of the other Arty levels, so you earned yourself an additional level here - but I'm most certainly not a fan of this trick! :P
In the end, to make it a little more Arty-like, I made it more artistic by combining different tilesets again, with clouds from Sky and the moon from the Polar tileset. Also, there's an invisible exit, as they appear several times in SubLems. Just like in SubLems though, it should be pretty obvious where it is - as if the title didn't provide enough of a hint ;) .

Level 36: What does the fox say?

Gronkling. A lot of people seem to expect Lemmings Evolution to be one of the hardest packs ever, possibly topping NepsterLems in that regard. While the first five demo levels didn't stomp me as much as I expected - I was able to solve four out of five of them - every single one of them contained very distinctive signature tricks. Making miners go through with builders is already the most "mainstream" of them; using a miner to free a crowd from a digger shaft so that they only come out facing in one direction, and at the same time turning that miner around by hitting steel, that's some nice double-duty usage right there! Also, at the beginning the similarly obscure double-builder turnaround is required (taught in the Noisemaker rank, though ;) ). I went with Gronkling's highly requested Minimal tileset here, which he originally planned to release as a rewards-only thing. Anyways, for all these reasons, it was pretty certain that this level would have to come very late in the Groupie rank. I don't know if it's indeed one of the most difficult ones, but it's certainly very complex, with lots of different stages going on.

Level 37: Johnny B. Goode

bsmith. Hence the name, a famous song including a separate "B". I also could have gone with "Sloop John B" ;) . A recurring thing I noticed in bsmith's level pack is original Lemmings levels remade in a different tileset - in this case, I went with "Builders will help you here" and made it a Brick level. But obviously, the solution is completely different.

Level 38: A Mazu Grace

Martin Zurlinden. I noticed that MazuLems contains a lot of snow levels, even though the core premise of this level is taken from a Rock level, where several climbers have to work together to put builders in different spots in the most ergonomically efficient way.

Level 39: Not the incended solution

Strato Incendus. For the penultimate level, I played the reverse game and threw together everything that other people had identified as my signature level design elements. In fact, nin10doadict's level "Super Mecha Death Gators" from CasuaLemmings is what got the whole idea to the Groupie rank started, where he took my main idea of spiced-up animal traps and developed it further. So now I did the same thing with another animal trap. Also, there's a skeletal alien creature somewhat reminiscent of my "Death Titan", a level which many people seem to have enjoyed in Paralems, even though I myself considered the solution pretty lame. That alien creature breathes fire and has lightning traps in its eyes, so don't try shortcutting here! :) Other things I like to do frequently is enforcing swimmer usage to platform over a pont from the opposing side; using stoners as stepping stones for builders under low ceilings; and having a digger pay double-duty to lower a lemming's position and turn around the crowd. This trick proved to be very successful in my Pit Lems "Curse Level", @!#*§$%/!
Finally, I don't know whether backroutes can be considered a signature element of mine, but since I like to test my packs "in the field", probably so? :D Well, the name just asked for this stupid pun in the level title...

Level 40: The Grand Puzzle

Nepster. This is my attempt at recreating a Final Frustration-like experience. Signature elements are the 20-of-everything skill set with only classic skills, plus the several crowds you have to unite - plus the fact that from all the skills you have, builders are the one you are most likely going to run out of. :P Also, there's a structure which actually consists of Dirt tileset pieces, but which goes very well with the Pillar tileset: The "Diagonal disarray" from the level with that same title from NepsterLems.
I know Nepster doesn't consider Final Frustration one of his best levels, nor even one most representative of his level building style. But it remains a fact that X-of-everything levels are a very common thing in NepsterLems, and I've built other Nepster-style levels in the past, such as "You had it coming" from Pit Lems.
Nepster's levels were outlined to me by IchoTolot during my early days here in the forum as the prime example of fair difficulty, the epitome of the "puzzle" ideal the NeoLemmix community strives for. Hence the title.
This level is simply put the most challenging resource conservation-level I could come up with. I don't know if it's possible to save everyone here, as it is required on Final Frustration - I had to use one blocker facing in the wrong direction, so I couldn't free him anymore later. Hence, you have to save all but one.
But if anyone finds a 100% solution, please inform me! I would make that a Gold Talisman for sure! :thumbsup:

I hope the release of this pack to New Formats can bridge the gap between very easy and very hard packs a little! ;) It's currently rather difficult to find "intermediate" content. The radiation- and slowfreeze levels from Old Formats could be replicated in New Formats to varying degree - some solutions might be more interesting, some more dull than in Old Formats.

Finally, I have tested each level in the New-Formats version of this pack at least once, but with 320 levels in total, there's always a remaining chance that I've missed something that doesn't work as intended.
So please, report any issues you find, just like you would report any backroutes! ;)

And with that, all I have to say is:
The stage is yours! ;)


*The red Stratocaster from the Instruments tileset is a Wikimedia Commons picture created by Johan Förberg.

I will 100% take a look at this soon now. :)

Also: Is this already functional with the current stable release or does it require the 12.7 RC? Sorry if you already stated it and I overead it. ;P

Thanks for the question, indeed I should clarify this! ;)

The current version is for 12.6.5.

I know Flopsy uploaded both a 12.6.5 and a 12.7 RC version of SEB Lems recently. I asked namida on how to best proceed with things, and the last thing he told me was that I could release it now and do the update once the stable version of 12.7 is in place.

First of all I still got some errors to report:

I have already tracked down the issues. Following tiles are missing (+ I put the affected levels next to it):

Tiles missing from a set. Here I got the set but the standard library where I got it from doesn't have these tiles. Would suggest replacing them with tiles from the standard library:

plom:psychmd:alt5     2 24, 5 06
plom:psychmd:alt7     1 39, 3 23

For this one gigalem_treemd exists, but not gigalem_treemdbright. Maybe use gigalem_treemd?

gigalem_treemdbright:window         2 02,
gigalem_treemdbright:exit                2 08, 2 09, 4 08
gigalem_treemdbright:trunk_02       4 13
gigalem_treemdbright:leaves_03     6 21

Tileset missing completely:

gronkling_angelisland:block_08    2 33

gronkling_chaosangel:block_23   5 05

I remember these 2 being removed by gronkling's request. So I would swap the tiles out for other ones.

cattrap:cattrap    3 17, 3 21, 5 26, 6 09, 6 33, 8 01, 8 07       

Include this in the download (maybe even in strato_standardmd) + submit to the standard library


I played the first rank (except 1 39 because of a missing tile) and groupie 40. I attached my solutions.

My thoughts:

I think the 1st rank has good levels, although even with the prelevel-texts it fails as an introduction/tutorial rank. The core here is that some of the levels just jump up several stages in difficulty compared to others. I had quite a lot of levels where I really needed like 5-15mins to get it and after that comes a level where I simply need to turn up the RR to 99. For comparison: I would put several of them easily in rank 2 or 3 of Reunion or something similar.

I would either simplyfy the following levels down to ONLY the lesson, or reduce entropy with pick-ups, or maybe make a rank below this called "tutorial" or so (the fat ones are quite extreme cases):

1 04, 1 05, 1 08, 1 10, 1 11, 1 15 (more to that later :devil:), 1 17, 1 19, 1 20, 1 21, 1 22, 1 26, 1 28, 1 35

Spoiler

(here the problem is also that the climber is needed earlier than the wall to get up onto the bottom right corner and it's not explained why)

, 1 38

Even if I acted a bit like a dummy in some of these, the fact that I easily did so proves that way less experienced players will most likely have much bigger problems.


Again these are not bad levels, in fact most of them are excellent! :thumbsup: But they are put together with actual tutorial levels (difficulty wise), where you just assign a handful of clear skills or just need to turn the RR up. They need to have lower entropy to be actual tutorials, be it with pick-ups, culling of non-tutorial elements, or a new rank.

1 15: This level should be burned or made fair! :devil:  Dissapearing lemmings because of invisible traps is just *insert mean word here*. It's also quite hard for the position.


For groupie 40:
Took me ~60 mins and a few tries to adapt some parts and reduce builder usage. The main difficulty here is the sheer size and needing to scoll slowly across the landscap a ton as even max zoom-out doesn't help. Nepster's Final Frustraition achived a way higher diffuculty with a much smaller size, less multitasking and less imidiate danger I must admit.

Quotecattrap:cattrap    3 17, 3 21, 5 26, 6 09, 6 33, 8 01, 8 07       

Include this in the download (maybe even in strato_standardmd) + submit to the standard library

This would also need the name fixed first (no author prefix in the style name).

Quote from: IchoTolot on October 27, 2019, 05:03:41 PMTileset missing completely:

gronkling_angelisland:block_08    2 33

gronkling_chaosangel:block_23   5 05

I remember these 2 being removed by gronkling's request. So I would swap the tiles out for other ones.

The tilesets were renamed to sonic_angelisland and sonic_chaosangel. The blocks in question still exist.

Quote from: Proxima on October 27, 2019, 08:47:55 PM

Quote from: IchoTolot on October 27, 2019, 05:03:41 PMTileset missing completely:

gronkling_angelisland:block_08    2 33

gronkling_chaosangel:block_23   5 05

I remember these 2 being removed by gronkling's request. So I would swap the tiles out for other ones.

The tilesets were renamed to sonic_angelisland and sonic_chaosangel. The blocks in question still exist.

Thanks, Proxima! Then Strato you only would need to change the tileset name to these by editing the respective level text files.

First of all, thanks a lot for the detailed feedback, IchoTolot! :thumbsup:

Regarding the missing graphic sets: I converted many of these after they had been abandoned by their original creators, and uploaded them to the respective threads. I could link to them, but then one would have to scroll through the posts to find them, which is why I believe it's quicker if I re-attach them here (in the starting post). I've added nin10doadict's name to the cattrap and fixed all the levels referring to it, so that they now refer to the new name.

You're right, though, I also should have sent them to Nessy for standard inclusion in the next download! ;) (EDIT: Done now.) The bright Tree tileset is the interim version of GigaLem's modified tree tileset. I had already built a bunch of levels with it when he released the final version, and thus, I kept using both in conjunction.

QuoteThe tilesets were renamed to sonic_angelisland and sonic_chaosangel. The blocks in question still exist.

I know, I had already replaced them in most of the levels featuring those tilesets. As I feared, apparently some escaped me - glad it was only two! :D

Quote
plom:psychmd:alt5     2 24, 5 06
plom:psychmd:alt7     1 39, 3 23

This is a similar issue: These pieces still exist, but the naming scheme was changed slightly: Rather than alt1 through alt10, they are now named as alt_01 through alt_10. I had both in my plom_psychmd folder (i.e. alt1 and alt_01, and this for each of those ten pieces). Hence, this error didn't even pop up for me - there was no way for me to notice this on my PC, at least not just by playing the pack. I have now deleted the redundant pieces alt1 through alt10 from my plom_psychmd folder, and with the affected levels edited, they still display properly, so no tiles should have gone missing this way.

I think the reason for these graphic-set naming issues is that some of these remained unconverted for the longest time - then I converted them myself. This was the case for several of Gronkling's Sonic-based tilesets, as well as for several of the Lemmings-Plus mods by GigaLem and plom.

At some point, somebody else in the background also converted these tilesets, changing the names of certain pieces in the process, or splitting up tilesets, in the case of sonic_angelisland / sonic_chaosangel as well as sonic_cybertrack / sonic_technobase. Now, suddenly, it was hard for me to tell which were my own conversions, and which levels referred to these, and which were the official ones.

I uploaded all the conversions I had done to the appropriate threads - but I probably should have sent them to Nessy instead. ;) Whoever "also" converted these must have sent them straight to their official destination.

As you can tell from the fact that most of the levels featuring the former "Ancient" tileset didn't give you errors, I had indeed become aware of this change, and had already replaced the relevant references to the best of my memory.

Thanks a lot, IchoTolot, for taking the time to create the overview of the remaining missing ones! :thumbsup:

I have attached the updated version of the pack to the starting post. This only includes mechanical fixes so far, to make sure all levels can be played. Game-wise fixing (backroutes etc.) I'll address in a second step! ;)

Here is a second post to respond to IchoTolot's comments on level design and difficulty. Your specific solutions to the individual levels from the Noisemaker rank (and Groupie 40) I'll address in a third post, once I've had time to watch them all ;) .

Generally speaking, the Noisemaker rank is not a standalone tutorial rank. I know you and I both have the ambition of our packs being able to stand on their own without requiring prior knowledge. However, I think we can both agree that any complete newbie, first-time Lemmings player will get crushed at latest at the beginning of rank two, no matter whether they try Lemmings Reunion, Lemmings United :evil: , or Lemmings World Tour.

Instead, Noisemaker is a tutorial rank for the intermediate player, which is why it doesn't teach the individual skills, or easy skill combinations, but instead starts diving into more complicated and obscure skill tricks early on. The pre-level texts explain them to aleviate the difficulty - they instruct the player to actively try these obscure tricks once, so that they can start actively looking for opportunities to execute these tricks on later levels (=without prior announcement, then).

However, with the abundance of features and skills NeoLemmix has, some easy things might require a reminder. In case of the "just turn up the release rate"-level, it's analogous to the one you did for the new Introduction pack: Technically, both are the easiest levels in their respective packs, but yet, they're not in the very first position. That's because release-rate-fiddling in general is more complicated than performing 2-4 easy skills in rather straightforward ways, so we want to introduce this concept as a whole a little later.

The difficulty of any individual level in this rank therefore largely depends on whether a given player knows this specific trick already or not.

Some tricks are more obscure than others, of course, and Noisemaker 08 ("Glide and Joy") indeed seems quite challenging for its position. I'd first resort to making the pre-level text a little more specific though, rather than moving levels around?

So far, some pre-level texts outright tell you about the trick, whereas others just allude to it, requiring the player to put 2 and 2 together. The latter also applies to Noisemaker 38 ("Rock, Paper, Scissors"), where the pre-level text just gives the hint about the shoulder height of Stoners being 6 pixels.

Spoiler

6-pixel jumps have been introduced before by Noisemaker 16 ("Jump!"), but how to make a Stoner "jump-able", this still has to be figured out by the player.

Quote1 15: This level should be burned or made fair! :devil:  Dissapearing lemmings because of invisible traps is just *insert mean word here*. It's also quite hard for the position.

For everyone else: This is the "infamous, lemming-eating Octopus" I talked about in the starting post. :P

I've already apologised for it on both Arty's and Flopsy's Let's Play videos :D , but I don't see a way of fixing this level. One aesthetic feature - the underwater updraft - collides with another one here - devouring animals requiring hidden traps - and with the trigger areas overlapping, the result is "Dark fate of Atlantis" (Paralems, Demented 28) on steroids. Outright removing a Beatles classic from the pack doesn't seem justified either. At least by the time the player gets to the rerun, they already know about the octopus being hungry.

The upside of all the "unfair" elements being gathered in a single level is that they're also restricted to that specific one. So I guess it's just the go-to troll level of this pack, much like "Trust No 1" from Paralems. At the same time, it's also about as artistically iconic as the beloved "Death Titan" from Paralems.

Quote
For groupie 40:
Took me ~60 mins and a few tries to adapt some parts and reduce builder usage. The main difficulty here is the sheer size and needing to scoll slowly across the landscap a ton as even max zoom-out doesn't help. Nepster's Final Frustraition achived a way higher diffuculty with a much smaller size, less multitasking and less imidiate danger I must admit.

Absolutely! ;) As I said in the Groupie rank level list spoiler, this is merely my attempt at creating a Final-Frustration-like level. Final Frustration itself forces the player more elegantly to "waste" skills, especially the destructive ones, through a sequence of close-together structures, a bunch of tiny walls, each of which eats up a basher, miner, or digger. It also makes more use of the vertical dimension (without actually requiring vertical scrolling), and most of the crowds are contained from the beginning. The Grand Puzzle is not only much wider, but also several crowds walk to their death from the start, so they either need to be contained, or some serious multitasking is in order.

I will definitely try to create a level in a similar vein again (i.e. 10 or 20 of everything) in a much more condensed manner! ;)

As long as it ran smoothly on your PC (no lagging due to level size or similar), and took a pro player like you 60 minutes to figure out, for the time being I consider it a worthy closing to such a gargantuan pack. I guess that also goes to show that the final level should be attempted in a separate playing session all by itself :D . It's not something one can casually solve after having completed the penultimate level.

For the errors:

I still get 1 error: cattrap:catrap is missing on 6 09.

Also you seem to have forgotten to attach strato_generalmd now. I can't find it even looking into the zips.

For noisemaker:

I would still propose to flatten the quite harsh difficulty spikes a bit, as the difficulty itself can be quite over the place. Try to directly point at things in the text and not just vaguely hint at them. Turn some skills into pick-ups near intended positions as that lowers entropy by quite a bit. Even if it's not a tutorial, currently the difficulty is quite unexpectable.

Will continue playing soon. :)

QuoteI still get 1 error: cattrap:catrap is missing on 6 09.

Thanks for pointing this out! Indeed you mentioned it the first time already, but I must have overlooked it. :sorry: Seems like I only fixed "The lion sleeps tonight", but not "The eye of the tiger". Done now! ;)

QuoteAlso you seem to have forgotten to attach strato_generalmd now. I can't find it even looking into the zips.

Oops, I must have accidentally unchecked that one as well when unchecking the box for the previous version of the pack. :-[ This time, I double-checked, thank you very much! ;)

Finally, I have to revisit this point:

Quote
1 15: This level should be burned or made fair! :devil:  Dissapearing lemmings because of invisible traps is just *insert mean word here*. It's also quite hard for the position.

I looked into the levels again, and indeed, the lemmings just disappeared without a trace, rather than actually being visible as they're getting killed by the traps. That of course destroys the entire visual appeal! ;) I had to re-position the updraft object so that it is in the background, but all the trap animations can still be seen. Specifically, the very first trap is a clam from the Beach tileset, and actually supposed to be completely visible - just like the crocodile trap on the left! ;)

So this was likely just a misunderstanding between Old and New Formats, as far as the correct order of objects is concerned. What I've never understood, both in Old and New Formats, is that the "to front" / "to back" feature works the other way round for objects as it does for terrain. Meaning: If you want an object in the very background (in this case: the updraft), you actually have to click "to front".

The fix has also been applied to the rerun, "Rolling in the deep". While some traps are indeed hidden behind the octopus, at least now they're all visible once they get activated! :evil:

So even this level is not supposed to be quite as troll-ish as it accidentally ended up in its first New-Formats iteration. Take a look at it again, now it works as it was supposed to in Old Formats! ;)

From a game-mechanics perspective, of course three of these five traps in total still count as hidden. From a flavour perspective, anyone who has played any of my previous packs knows all animals in my lemmings levels are hungry for meat... :evil:


On a happier note, though, regarding your solutions: It's so nice to finally be able to watch an entire rank worth of levels, played by an experienced player such as you, and not to see any backroutes! :thumbsup: Especially on harder levels which got backrouted by both Colorful Arty and Flopsy - specifically, "Glide and joy" (Noisemaker 08) and "Lemming, I hardly knew ya!" (Noisemaker 19).

Of course, I could get nit-picky here and there, but on all levels where you went with slightly alternative solutions, you still used the main idea each of these levels is supposed to teach. Also, given that even you already mentioned the difficulty of these Noisemaker levels, I see no necessity to tighten the skill limit even further - or doing so by enforcing the usage of every single skill provided. As long as the main idea has to be used, the player should definitely have some leeway on the first rank.

Spoiler

Noisemaker 22, "Locked away": Here you contained the crowd on the left with a stoner, rather than making everyone a climber. But you still had to contain the climbers on the right with a stacker, and containing climbers is what this level is all about. Thus, mission accomplished! ;)

Noisemaker 28, "Bashing through the snow": A fine timing-based solution, saving you one builder. Still required the basher-builder / basher-walker slope, which is the main point here.

Noisemaker 29, "Behind blue eyes": The intended solution goes down even further back, therefore requiring a couple more skills. You used a gap in the steel, which I could patch out if I wanted to - but the main purpose of this level is to simply establish the idea of isolating the pioneer lemming from behind the crowd, rather than from the front of the crowd. Since that is what you've done, this is fine! :)

Noisemaker 34, "Takes two to tango": That was a Nepster-style solution, making it look like the climbers were red herrings! ;) They are not, actually - one can use the bottom chamber on the right to turn the lemmings around, which requires them to climb out again. The important thing is: You still used the double-builder turnaround this level teaches. So all is fine here, as well!

Noisemaker 35, "While my Lemming gently builds": That was actually more advanced than it had to be: You released the crowd just in time so that just one lemming would slip past the builder and fall down before the staircase closed off the path. You can easily isolate the "follower" by having him climb over the stack, and then only release the crowd with a basher at the very end.

Noisemaker 38, "Rock, Paper, Scissors": Stoner-stacker-jump successfully implemented, plus the ending of fencing and mining into opposite directions. That's all I asked for! ;)

Groupie 40, "The Grand Puzzle": Beautiful! :) A very elegant and skill-efficient approach, in many ways close to my own solution, actually - if we can speak of any "intended" solutions for such an open-ended level at all. While you did manage to save a lot more skills than I did, only using every last builder and digger while having remaining skills of every other type, I'm glad that even you couldn't save the last blocker. I'm still curious to see whether anyone can find a 100% solution, which would become the most golden talisman of all. :thumbsup: But at this point, I'm not even sure there is a way to do this...

...and here are some for outside the spoiler:

Noisemaker 40, "Absolute beginners": This reminded me that not all of the talismans from Old Formats have been translated properly. Or, more specifically: On those levels which I manually reconverted by opening them in the editor, the talismans created from converting the entire pack got lost. In case of this level, I had to add a solid ceiling, which I always did in Old Formats, so that players of the Old-Formats version could no longer get confused about whether the ceiling was solid or deadly. Then, I reopened the level in the new editor, but of course, this doesn't copy talisman information, which was a property of the entire pack in Old Formats, rather than the individual level. This is supposed to have a talisman for only using destructive skills plus climbers. Of course, due to the individual-level conversion, it also lost the pre-level text telling the player about that.

Noisemaker 26, "Don't stop me now" also has a talisman for saving everyone - which you did. So simply run this replay again once the talisman is back! ;)

So I'll have to take a closer look again at which talismans were lost due to my individual-level conversion. I'll try to have all talismans back in the next update of the New-Formats version! :)

Just a question: Did you skip the first three levels? I didn't see any replays for those. 39 was missing because of the missing pieces from plom_psychmd, I know - these have been fixed now.

QuoteWhat I've never understood, both in Old and New Formats, is that the "to front" / "to back" feature works the other way round for objects as it does for terrain. Meaning: If you want an object in the very background (in this case: the updraft), you actually have to click "to front".

The issue here is perhaps that "back" and "front" aren't the best terms, and instead, "start" / "end" (of the piece list) would be more accurate. Pieces are drawn starting with the first piece in the list, then the 2nd, and so on. An "eraser" piece thus erases what's been drawn up to that point (but not anything drawn after it), and a "no overwrite" piece will be drawn behind (instead of in front of) all existing pieces - however, crucially, this doesn't change when the piece is drawn, just how it's drawn. Thus, a No Overwrite piece at the end of the list, will be drawn behind everything else (because the only thing that could get drawn behind that is another No Overwrite piece even later in the list).

Now, combine that with that objects generally have "No Overwrite" selected by default, and you see why these buttons seem to work backwards for objects - but they're actually doing exactly what they're meant to do, they just have a poor choice of name. And that's probably something that we should discuss fixing. (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4484.0)

Quote
Just a question: Did you skip the first three levels? I didn't see any replays for those. 39 was missing because of the missing pieces from plom_psychmd, I know - these have been fixed now.

Checked my zip again and it has Noisemaker 1-3. Maybe you overlooked them ???

Regarding groupie 40: I think a 100% solution is possible, but let's say I don't want to scroll for ages to search deeper for that. ;)   In a more compact level of this type I would consider trying to find one.

Got noisemaker 39 here. :)

I thing about this level:

Spoiler

I think doing the quite precise stoner trick, which requires 5 of them, 2 times is enough to get the message across. The third and forth time is definitly too much and is not really that fun anymore.

Also, the one cat level loads now! :)

Thanks, I also found and checked your replays for Noisemaker 1 through 3. Still everything as intended! :thumbsup:

Yeah, I know the fountain part of "Vegas Lights" is somewhat repetitive - that's why I mentioned it in the starting post. With just two fire traps, it wouldn't really look like a fountain anymore. Again, similarly to the octopus, this was an aesthetical choice, not a mechanical one.

This will be one of the main differences in Lemmings Open Air ;) , which has far fewer aesthetic ambitions and focuses more on a fair, mechanical challenge - similarly to Pit Lems, but with higher difficulty, and still connected by the music theme, as Lemmings World Tour.

Here is the next bunch. 20 more replays from rank 2.:)

More specific comments after I had time to finish the rank.

Thanks for the replays, IchoTolot! :thumbsup: The majority is still as intended. Though this is probably going to change, at the latest once you get past the point up to which Colorful Arty has played so far, which is the end of the Diva rank.

There seems to be something broken with the pickup skills from the GigaLem Tree-Mod tileset: Bomber pickup skills get incorrectly displayed as Stoner pickups, Cloner pickup skills are depicted as empty pickup skills (i.e. ones that have already been collected). Consequently, the Cloners cannot be collected, and thus, your replay of Amateur 13, "Ayo Technology" (as well as mine), fails.

This definitely wasn't the case when I tested the New-Formats version of this level. This replay in particular was just recently created, because "Ayo Technology" is a radiation level in the original version of the pack.

Maybe this has something to do with the removal of support for custom pickup skills? ;) Then again, I still have the stable 12.6.5 version, so this shouldn't be a problem, but for some reason, it is... maybe the official styles download got changed in this regard?

Apart from that, on your single solutions:

Spoiler

Amateur 03, "Walking on sunshine": This is the talisman solution that avoids using any Walkers. I'm going to try to re-enable all the talismans in the next update, which is going to be for the stable version 12.7.

Amateur 06, "Cliffs of Dover": Nice, I didn't know it was possible to avoid using the Climbers! I actually like that, though, the level was originally just about creative skills, and then I felt there wasn't a way of doing it without the Climbers. So now, the main thing to find out here is how to keep the lemmings from climbing over the stack on the right at the end. This can either be done by placing a Stoner there and using the Climbers - or by going with a Stacker and avoiding the Climbers entirely.

Amateur 08, "Who let the dogs out?": A valid alternative solution, uses all the skills.

Amateur 09, "Greensleeves": This is another talisman solution, because it uses the Stacker-Stoner trick introduced previously on the Noisemaker rank by "Rock, Paper, Scissors" (Noisemaker 38).

Amateur 12, "Smoke on the water": This is somewhat of a backroute, platforming over the palm tree to avoid bombing down. But I don't see a way of preventing this without employing massive amounts of steel or fire areas. So I think I'll just leave it as it is, it's not like you've completely broken the level... :P

Amateur 14, "Meet me halfway": Ah, great, now I finally don't feel quite as bad about this level anymore, knowing that you don't necessarily have to make two Miners pass through each other with very precise timing to solve it. You still used all the skills, so I don't see what else I should ask for. ;)

Amateur 16, "Slide it in": Interesting place to trap the Floaters. This is much more convenient than the intended solution, which has the Floaters create a straight wall of Stoners, which the Gliders then bump again at just the right angle to sail into the exit while the Floaters fall down straight into the exit. Trapping the crowd somewhere and then gliding over the barrier from above is something I like to use myself on other levels, though, and indeed, you've already done so as part of the intended solution on "How to save a life" from the Noisemaker rank.
So again, another valid alternative solution that actually seems less fiddly to execute than the intended one. I'm always happy about those, because it means people can no longer accuse me of execution difficulty for those particular levels! :evil:

It's also a curious coincidence that you stopped at Amateur 20 for the time being, because Amateur 21 is the only level in the pack featuring an anti-splat pad. This is going to get re-introduced with the 12.7 update as well - during initial conversion, I had to replace the anti-splat pad with an updraft, but this breaks the solution.

As far as I know, conversion from Old-Formats levels to version 12.7 is still going to be possible? i.e. anti-splat pads are now going to be recognised again when opening an old level? That would make it easier to just re-convert the level, rather than manually setting everything back to the way it was - because I think I had to slightly adapt the skillset in order for the level to work in some way with the currently-installed updraft.

I also noticed I still have to re-add my Medieval background to Amateur 19, "Holding out for a hero".

EDIT: Background added. I also just made a quick little emergency fix to "The lion sleeps tonight" (Professional 21). It was one of the weakest levels in the pack so far, which I was just tired of. Now that the release rate has been maxed out and another cat trap added, it should be at least slightly more difficult. The fix is of course also coming to the Old-Formats version!

QuoteIt's also a curious coincidence that you stopped at Amateur 20 for the time being, because Amateur 21 is the only level in the pack featuring an anti-splat pad. This is going to get re-introduced with the 12.7 update as well - during initial conversion, I had to replace the anti-splat pad with an updraft, but this breaks the solution.

Don't bother yourself reading too much into that. The case was: Hmmm, it's late, but I wanted to continue playing the pack today. Hmm, let's play half a rank.....;P

Had a quick look after redownloading everything fresh now.

Some levels are not loading:

arty_underwater:invisible_updraft

1 15, 4 24

gigalem_treemd:o4

2 02, 2 08, 2 10, 4 08

gigalem_treemd:pickupleaf

2 13

These were the ones not loading in for me. :)

Thanks for reporting, but I don't get any of these errors. Are you already using the new version 12.7? ;) This one is still for 12.6.5.

I've noticed you posted a separate notification into the topic of every pack you're maintaining once you had cleansed the levels. Since I haven't done that yet, you can assume that LWT isn't updated for 12.7 yet.

Hopefully this doesn't involve a whole bunch of renamed pieces again... feels like I've just updated this pack to New Formats, and now, there's an even newer New Formats. I hope this will not be the case with every odd-number version (i.e. 12.9 being the next one) that gets released... :evil:

Currently, version 12.7 gives me the message that it cannot cleanse certain levels and will simply skip them - and among those are precisely those you listed.

QuoteThanks for reporting, but I don't get any of these errors. Are you already using the new version 12.7? ;) This one is still for 12.6.5.

Well, then disregard. ;)

I was using 12.7.

Most packs should not be affected on the playability side anyway with the new version. Only if they included some of the custom pick-ups problems could arise.

QuoteHopefully this doesn't involve a whole bunch of renamed pieces again... feels like I've just updated this pack to New Formats, and now, there's an even newer New Formats. I hope this will not be the case with every odd-number version (i.e. 12.9 being the next one) that gets released...

The only thing that was failing in all my stuff was a custom pick-up skill object, that I replaced and in namida_circuit that duplicate not being automatically replaced. So as the standard library goes you should not have many problems.

It's only your extra stuff (especially that treebright tileset) that maybe could cause a problem. But I bet most of that would also be pick-up related and for that I would simply suggest "go with the default one" for now.

Also cleansing is not nessesary for getting it to work. It's more future related.

The problem is that I cannot even open these levels in the new editor to replace these pickups with default ones. I'd have to do that either in the 12.6.5 editor, or even further back in Old Formats, because the old editor still had the "replace object with another one from a different tileset" feature that kept the piece in exactly the same position.

In case of the failing underwater levels, however, I have no idea what this is about. As I had feared and just anounced in the post above, some objects have been renamed in that tileset, and even though I've replaced all text instances with the new names, the player still cannot cleanse these levels, and thus, the editor can't open them either.

QuoteIt's only your extra stuff (especially that treebright tileset) that maybe could cause a problem.

I thought so, too, but actually, it doesn't cause more or fewer problems than the (not yet officially-included) Dex Halloween tileset, or than any other graphic set - as long as no custom pickups are involved, as you suspected. 8-)

In contrast, other graphic sets that are part of the official download, but still included custom pickup skills (like Plom's modification of the Psychedelic tileset) are a much bigger problem, because of course, those custom pickups aren't there either.

QuoteThe problem is that I cannot even open these levels in the new editor to replace these pickups with default ones. I'd have to do that either in the 12.6.5 editor, or even further back in Old Formats, because the old editor still had the "replace object with another one from a different tileset" feature that kept the piece in exactly the same position.

In case of the failing underwater levels, however, I have no idea what this is about. As I had feared and just anounced in the post above, some objects have been renamed in that tileset, and even though I've replaced all text instances with the new names, the player still cannot cleanse these levels, and thus, the editor can't open them either.

This should solve your problem:

https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4504.msg78051#msg78051

https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4504.msg78052#msg78052

Nope, it doesn't - I've responded in the above-linked thread, so I think we can stop cross-posting ;) .

Basically, two objects - one background and one updraft object - have been removed from the arty_underwater tileset in the official styles download coming with version 12.7, while they were still present in the latest version of the styles folder I downloaded for 12.6.5.

Maybe someone just forgot to add them to the 12.7 styles download. Anyways, they've always been there, from Old Formats to well within the time period of New Formats, so I don't see a reason why they should be intentionally culled right now.

In the meantime, these levels should work fine for anyone continuing to play in version 12.6.5.

For 12.7, namida has implemented a code that replaces any instance of the gigalem_treemdbright tileset with the matching piece from gigalem_treemd. However, this breaks the respective levels, because the exit gets flushed down into the ground, since the exit objects are actually not identical between these two tilesets. The change also only applies to the new NeoLemmix player; the editor still displays the levels as gigalem_treemdbright, and only once you hit playtest, it turns to gigalem_treemd on the preview screen (and within the level itself, of course)...

...therefore, the update I just uploaded (for version 12.7.0!) sets all instances of gigalem_treemdbright to regular gigalem_treemd. Since the player doesn't let anyone use the bright tileset anyway without custom editing of the alias file, I decided I could just as easily do this replacement myself; in fact, I had to, in order to make the exits work in the first place.

(Alternatively I would have had to spend my time merging the animation of the exit top with that of the bottom for the gigalem_treemdbright tileset as well, just to have the default programming of NeoLemmix 12.7 replace it with the regular Tree Mod exit anyway.)

The arty_underwater levels have been fixed.

The anti-splat pad on Amateur 21 has also been reintroduced. That's why I'm already uploading this now, just as a "hot fix", so that IchoTolot can not only continue playing in NeoLemmix 12.7., but also at just the right spot with this particular level featuring its intended solution again! ;)

Consequently, the missing talismans will then be added in the next, i.e. "proper" update.

Hi Strato! After seeing the description for the groupie level for Clam, I decided to put here some thoughts about the author, and more importantly to put here a small piece of the lemmingsforums history , back in the beginning of the decade. Personally I joined the forum in 2013. There were several authors whose packs made me solving custom packs , but Clam was the main one and he is still my favourite level designer. This post is not a critique for the groupie level . Unfortunately I didn't have the opportunity to try the pack , very probably I will try it next month. This post is just an opportunity to put here some small pieces of the history of the forum.

Clam's main characteristic is that he liked small levels. I remember him saying that he liked to see what you can fit in one screen in terms of level size. Now for the exact quote I need to dig older threads but that's I remember him saying (another older user can correct me if I am wrong here). In any case he seemed fan of the idea that "less is more".

EDIT: This post originally was very large. I mentioned several things and small stories about challenge solutions, the challenge board, how it had influenced Clam , and the cstame packs. But it was way off topic for your thread , so I posted it instead in a new thread in the main lemmings board. Please don't forget to visit it , I am really looking forward for your opinion.

link for the new thread: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4514.0

Hi Turrican! Thanks for your detailed explanation on Clam's level building style! ;) If I ever create levels in the style of other content creators again, I'll surely come back to them! I've already designed some of the levels from the Groupie rank based more on explicit instructions than on my own observation (for example, Proxima told me his level building style pretty explicitly - thus, it was also easy for him to recognise when I put it into practice :D ).

There are a couple users for which I might have enough information about their level-building style to create yet another few levels in their fashion, plus also some further quotes or phrases they commonly use I could "poke fun at". :P

For Clam in particular, however, I sadly didn't make it very far into Clammings before getting stomped. Therefore, I acknowledge that my levels might not have encapsulated his typical style of making small levels - I only observed a frequent use of the Beach tileset and more vertical scrolling than any other pack (although I think Ski Sloping Lemmings by grams88 has taken the cake on that by now ;) ).

I had similar issues with creating the namida level, because I usually only got past the initial X-of-everything levels of any Lemmings Plus pack before the first real puzzles hit me out of nowhere. In his case, apparently I got pretty close merely by observation, rather than by own level execution. But then again, using one of namida's custom tilesets certainly helped to make it feel more authentic to him.

Anyways, I'm glad some people are actually taking the time to read the descriptions I've listed for the Groupie rank! :thumbsup:

In case anyone is interested, I also listed all the intended tricks that the Noisemaker and Amateur ranks are supposed to teach in their respective sections (both in the Old- and New-Formats thread).

Just to be on the safe side in case any of this level still can't enforce its intended trick with absolute certainty. Although I'm feeling pretty confident about them as of now, because so far, the replays I've received by IchoTolot (up to Amateur 20) were all pretty much intended solutions.


PS: Thanks for making me aware of this particular level again. ;) I have just recently created a level for Lemmings Open Air (currently in development) called "Rama Lema Ding Dong", no longer aware that I had already used that song title as a reference here in Lemmings World Tour, with just a slight variation. :-[ So I should probably go ahead and change the title for the Lemmings Open Air level. Because a double-pun ("Clam-a-Lem-a-Ding-Dong") is always better than just a single pun! :thumbsup:

Finished Amateur. :)

Good levels in there. The difficulty is still a bit variable but not as much as before (For example: 2 15 too hard, 2 23 is a bit hard for the position, 2 31 waaaay too easy, 2 34 a bit too easy).

2 13 and 2 26 I would say is are prime examples that the pack is more enjoyable now if my guess is right that before there was radiation/slowfreeze in there. No way I would have enjoyed/wanted to play that with radiation/slowfreeze. :P

I should have tracked a few serious backroutes this time, but I await your call there. :devil:

My favorite level was 2 10! :thumbsup:   I also really enjoyed 2 32 and 2 35. :)

Level I did not really enjoy: 2 08 (I did expect the dogs but not the chocolate, also I would say it's too hard for the position), 2 40 (no way to find the exit without true physics mode here, also it's quite easy for the position)

Thanks a lot for both playing and your feedback, IchoTolot! :thumbsup: I'll respond to them one by one, and then address the replays in a spoiler.

Quote2 15 too hard

Really? I think this is the first time I hear that. Maybe it's because of the direct succession after 2 14 ("Meet me halfway"), which was extremely difficult for Arty, so that 2 15 ("Ring, Ring!") seemed very easy in comparison. You can also lose comparatively many lemmings on this one, and usually people have some skills remaining at the end.

Quote2 23 is a bit hard for the position

On this one ("Fields of gold") you had even more skills remaining, so just from watching the replay, it seemed like this particular one was even easier for you. Are you maybe referring to the level above or below? ???

I've mentioned them by name again, just to be able to clarify.

Quote2 31 waaaay too easy

This one is obviously a joke level. ;) There is a talisman for saving everyone, though, which I'm going to re-add with the next update. Since you did save everyone, simply re-run your replay over that level (mass-replay check should also work to get all the talismans you've already collected without knowing).

Basically, the purpose of this level is showing how pointless I find 10-of-everything levels on lower ranks in general, because the skill supply is so generous that the player doesn't have anything to lose. And to stress that, I thought "Why not go all the way and make the save requirement zero?" :D

Quote2 13 and 2 26 I would say is are prime examples that the pack is more enjoyable now if my guess is right that before there was radiation/slowfreeze in there. No way I would have enjoyed/wanted to play that with radiation/slowfreeze.

Indeed, 2 13 was a radiation level, so were 2 25 and 2 39, and 2 26 was a slowfreeze level. I've adapted the pre-level texts so that the player can usually tell.

On 2 13, you took some sort of a shortcut, but I don't really have to enforce any "intended" solutions on these levels where the object required for the actual intended solution is no longer present in the first place. ;)

On 2 25 and 2 26, however, you actually exactly replicated the intended solution to the best it can be done with the pickup skills in place of radiation and slowfreeze. :thumbsup:

QuoteMy favorite level was 2 10!

That's nice to hear! :D Especially since that level is right on the borderline between puzzle- and execution difficulty. Even with the replay-write feature, as Arty showcased in his LP, it's still not as easy as it looks at first.

QuoteI also really enjoyed 2 32 and 2 35.

I'll address those in the spoiler. ;)

Quote
2 08 (I did expect the dogs but not the chocolate, also I would say it's too hard for the position)

Interesting, because Arty actually found it too easy for its position. He was only fine with it being as high as level 08 of the second rank because of the music ("Who let the dogs out?" goes with "How much is that doggie in the window?", obviously).

Regarding the trap: Take a good look at its position again and I doubt you'd want to refer to that as chocolate... :evil:

Spoiler

As the pre-level text announces, dogs are usually "let out for one very specific reason"... and that reason is a bathroom break. ;)
The dog on the balcony actually also has an additional trap on top of the red barrel from the Brick tileset. I think no one has found this yet because everyone immediately bashes through the barrel. But anyone who decides to build over it instead will find out that the dog on the balcony will pee down on the lemmings. This trap actually is even partly visible, in form of a little yellow puddle on top of the barrel.

Quote
2 40 (no way to find the exit without true physics mode here, also it's quite easy for the position)

Fair enough, I think this problem can occur anytime someone encounters a new graphic set for the first time. Even with familiar graphic sets, such as L2 Space, Nepster still mistook the airlock trap as the exit first when playing one of my Paralems levels. :D

Since this is not purposefully hidden information, I'm happy to spell it out for everyone: The acoustic guitar in my instruments tileset is always the exit. As such, it is an object and never solid.

On your single replays

2 21, "You can't play with broken Lems": Totally not intended, but you still needed all the skills except one stacker, so it's a viable alternative solution to me. Also, it's not really obvious. I think solutions like these really require prior knowledge of how everything works, and I don't want to punish that. I went to quite some lengths to enforce the use of the main trick on Noisemaker 38, because it was required again later. But here, this level is the only one in the entire pack that even contains anti-splat pads, so I don't see it as necessary to enforce one specific solution just to make the player aware of how these objects work.

2 22, "Firework": intended.

2 23, "Fields of gold": open-ended and fine as it is.

2 24, "Wonderwall": intended. The additional Basher is just provided in case the bouncing-it-off-the-Blocker part doesn't quite work. Otherwise the level would have been too hard for this position, at least for my taste.

2 25, "Radioactive": intended, as said above. In Old Formats, the radiation object is right beneath the receiver, and the pickup skill is a Blocker rather than a Bomber - that's pretty much all the difference. The fire traps were added in New Formats, though, to enforce Stacker usage, rather than allowing the Climber to go straight up the steel piece. In the Old-Formats version with radiation, the fire traps aren't needed, because the Stackers need to go in front of the radiation object anyway to prevent the crowd from walking into it.

2 26, "Like ice in the sunshine": intended. This one isn't really harder to execute in Old-Formats, though, because the slowfreeze is placed in such a way that the cloned Glider automatically stones in the correct two positions. Also, it's an 8-of-everything level in Old-Formats; hence, the extension to 10 skills was required in New Formats, so that I could provide additional Stoner pickup skills.

2 27, "Don't fear the Reaper": intended. Compression method is the way to go here.

2, 28, "Zombie": I've come to notice that timing-based solutions to Zombie levels are usually an option, and since this is the introductory level for Zombies, I don't see a justification for me to say that it's "forbidden". It's just usually a form of self-imposed execution difficulty, because it relies on the Zombie being in the correct position when the lemmings arrive at the exit. The cloned Stacker at the beginning is part of the intended solution, though. Any player who uses your solution actually demonstrates transfer of knowledge of the compression method taught on the previous level! :thumbsup:

2 29, "Seven Nation Army": This level provides way more skills than necessary, just to make the skillset look "pretty" (descending from 7 to 1). It's pretty much open ended. However, I was impressed by how you used the Blocker on the staircase - the one that caused the Builder to turn around - to at the same time trap a lemming on the other side of that staircase, due to the trigger areas still touching the ground! :thumbsup: I might actually make that part of the intended solution on some new levels I create!

2 30, "Georgia on my mind": Once again a timing-based solution - in this case one that requires flow control, rather than compression method. There is the possibility to trap the crowd on this level, but since I generally consider flow control the more "advanced" approach, once again, I don't want to punish players who approach levels in this manner. Just like you suggested once with regards to Builder gaps - that advanced players who stretch out their Builder staircases out of a learned habit for skill efficiency shouldn't be penalised for their increased knowledge.

2 32, "Ich und mein Holz": Almost intended - you only spared the Bomber. The intended solution connects the block of one-way arrows with the crowd on the left via a Builder, then has the Miner carry on over the staircase. This requires the Basher to go beneath the crowd on the left, and then the Basher must be bombed to be stopped, thus opening a passage to the exit below. The way to enforce this intended solution to full extent would be to also put one-way down arrows on the wall containing the crowd on the left (which you bashed through). This would only allow a Miner to be used there. But your solution is so close to the intended one that I think I'm just going to leave this level as it is - it might even be a bit too hard for the second rank otherwise. Another case where I'm happy somebody found a slightly easier solution, compared to the intended one - that way I can feel like less of a douche! :P

2 33, "Eagle": Even though it took a lot fewer skills than required, this also looked much more elegant than the intended solution! ;) I think the only way to prevent this slight shortcut is obcessive amounts of steel, or horribly out-of-place fire traps (which have historically been my most frequent emergency responses to Builder-based shortcuts). Since however this is one of the "landscape" levels, and the backroute is not severe enough to warrant that, this level is also going to remain as it is, at least for the time being.

2 34, "Levels": Intended. Well, open-ended, of course; but you needed all the Builders, that's the intended part. ;)

2 35, "Black Polished Chrome": Intended + Talisman (you saved the Climber from going over the stack). There are various ways to do this; the non-talisman solution bombs that Climber before he can walk off the screen and die. Arty took a completely different approach to this level; you however platformed over the market square, which is what I had in mind originally. :thumbsup:

2 36, "Walk this way": Intended. Or, more accurately, the same solution Arty found, which is as close as possible to the intended solution. I originally wanted the pioneer to make another round, come back from the other side, then climb on top of the Stack blocking the exit, so that you can bomb it open. That's of course still possible, but overall, this solution is much cleaner and more appropriate for this position in the rank, while still requiring all the main tricks (turning around the Glider correctly and making the Fencer continue over the staircase).

2 37, "Shipping up to Boston": Intended. Though I do think you've also managed to spare one Bomber here.

2 38, "The Shocker": This level is also open ended, and pretty much just an exercise of various ways to get through semi-thin walls.

2 39, "Japan": I was very curious for this one, because obviously, this solution changed completely, compared to the original one including radiation. The original level is so complex that I didn't even attempt to replicate the solution here, but made up something completely different. I didn't know that the masts with the one-way left arrows were thin enough to get through it with a Digger! :thumbsup: This is enabled by the steel stopping the Digger; however, at the same time, the steel needs to be in this position to prevent the player from simply shortcutting by going beneath everything with a single Basher.
In the end, you still needed all but 1 skill, so I'm more than happy with this! :D I could enforce the Bomber usage at the masts by replacing the one-way left arrows with one-way down arrows, because these are the spots in which the lemmings need to bomb in the Old-Formats version using radiation. But I don't think I have to, given that, as stated before, the "intended" solution for the New-Formats version is completely different from the Old-Formats solution anyway.

2 40, "God gave Rock 'n Roll to you": Pretty much intended. This is really just a level to show off the Instruments tileset. The important things are the way the crowd is contained, plus the pioneer going along the top path in the beginning and then coming back along the bottom.

In sum, most of your solutions were slight improvements over the intended ones. That's usually what gets turned into talismans, and as I said, some of these solutions actually are talisman solutions - they just haven't been re-added yet. ;)

On every level where you saved a considerable amount of skills, this actually happened via an observably higher level of knowledge than required by the player at this point - and I don't want to punish experienced players for their knowledge, or disable valid alternative approaches where they are appropriate, such as timing-based solutions when dealing with Zombies.

As such, there are no immediate backroute fixes required yet. But I'm pretty sure it's only a matter of time...

Good luck on the Professional rank! :thumbsup: Don't be confused if some levels are even slightly easier than those at the end of Amateur... this would be in line with the feedback I received from Arty, and doesn't necessarily mean those solutions are backroutes.

Quote2 23 is a bit hard for the position


On this one ("Fields of gold") you had even more skills remaining, so just from watching the replay, it seemed like this particular one was even easier for you. Are you maybe referring to the level above or below? ???

I've mentioned them by name again, just to be able to clarify.

No, it's exactly this one. I had a few skills left over, but it still took me the longest from rank 2.

QuoteRegarding the trap: Take a good look at its position again and I doubt you'd want to refer to that as chocolate...

I knew what it shall represent. ;) 

Had a bit of time today, so I added the first 10 levels of the Professional rank to the replay collection. :)

Thanks for the replays, IchoTolot! :thumbsup: You've found two backroutes; a major one on "Holy diver" (Professional 07), and a minor one on "Blocking all over the world" (Professional 08). The latter was originally part of Pit Lems, so that pack will also be affected. It has already had several backroute fixes, so I thought it would be proof by now... but apparently not.

Spoiler

Professional 07, "Holy diver": Here you could simply bash across the entire level and thus bypass all the obstacles. A simple wall of steel has fixed that, though.

Professional 08, "Blocking all over the world": You were supposed to bomb where you used the Digger. Upward arrows did the trick.

Apart from those two, I liked how on Professional 01, "I wanna rock!", you placed the Stoner on a staircase, repeatedly digging into the staircase and then resealing it to release further lemmings! :thumbsup: The intended solution uses the Fallers that continue to arrive, building from the Stoner used to break the fall, then cutting off the staircase behind the Builder with a Digger. What you did is a transfer of the "Blocker on Staircase" tought by "Pull me under", and it also happens to require exactly all the skills. So more than a valid alternative solution! ;)

And I'm so glad you found the intended solution for "Walk like an Egyptian"! :D Looks like that level is finally backroute-proof... but I may be just as mistaken about that as I was with "Blocking all over the world"...

You saved a couple of skills on "Vienna" and "Buildy Jean", but those are fine as alternative solutions as well.

I've already fixed the levels, but I haven't updated the pack yet; as announced before, I want to do that together with re-adding all the talismans. Hopefully I can get that done this week.

10 more levels solved today. Attached my replays. :)

This batch seemed easier than quite a bit of the rank 2 stuff to be honest.

Thanks for playing, IchoTolot! :thumbsup: This will give me the opportunity to fix even more stuff in one swoop in the next update.

It seems like a couple of levels in the Professional rank had the Millas sprites without me intending them to have them. For "Auld Lem Syne", they were quite fitting, given that they also have red hair! ;) But I'm going to reset them to the default sprites, now that I know.

Spoiler

Making your mine up and Block around the clock. Both of these are close enough to intended. In order to completely enforce the actual intended solution, we would really need diagonal one-way arrows (which would then be New-Formats-exclusive, of course, i.e. the intended solutions couldn't be enforced completely in the Old-Formats version). The Basher-Blocker-turnaround in the beginning of Block around the clock is indeed intended! ;) I think this is the first time I actually see that as part of someone else's solution to the level. Whatever I did to try and enforce that so far, it didn't work.

Tulpen aus Amsterdam. Intended.

Waka Waka. Close to intended. Digging and fencing at the wall is a nice alternative approach to save the Blocker! ;) My intended solution places the Blocker under the hatch, uses him to turn the Climber around, and then frees the Blocker with a Faller from the hatch, by having him dig + fence (to cancel the Digger). But that's an amount of leeway I consider fine for this rank. How to turn the Climber around after he has removed the one-way wall, that is indeed supposed to be the main challenge here, if you even want to call it that.

Auld Lem Syne. One of many valid approaches to this level. Few of them use all the skills, but most solutions use all except one or so. Acceptable number of degrees of freedom.

Pompeii. This one is open-ended. Your solution is a nice and fresh approach, though, going into the final building from the sides, rather than from the top! ;)

Surfin' bird. Another open-ended one mainly driven by its visuals (the "owl exit" ;) ). You saved a couple of skills here by cleverly steering around the bottom part. Not enough skills unused to be considered a backroute, though.

Sur le pont d'Avignon. Close to intended. The intended solution uses the double-Builder turnaround to isolate the Miner who frees the Swimmers. But I think that's hard to enforce here.

Atte katte nuva. Intended. You simply freed the Blocker with the Fencer at the beginning, rather than at the end, as I did.

Rome. This is the only true backroute from this bunch. I was actually pretty sure I had tested out whether it's possible to build across the gap between the Coliseum and St. Peter's Dome? ??? Then again, on second thought, I probably left the two buildings that close to each other deliberately, to trick the player into try to build across. Because when you actually build all the way on top of the dome, you no longer have the Digger you'd need to get to the exit from there, because you're forced to use it earlier, for crowd control. I hadn't factored in anyone trying to build across and then go to the exit from the side, using the Stoner to get down. I'm going to add one-way-down arrows to each of the pillars to prevent that. This is actually such a quick fix that I can do it manually in both the Old- and New-Formats version, without having to re-convert the level. :D

I'm trying to upload the next fix as soon as possible; Lemmings Open Air took precedent during the last couple of days, because with that pack still being in development, any backroutes people find there are usually much more glaring, and therefore in more urgent need of fixing. ;)

QuoteThis batch seemed easier than quite a bit of the rank 2 stuff to be honest.

Yes, this is consistent with the feedback I've received from Colorful Arty and others. The main reason is that there are more open-ended levels here, especially the landscape-y ones. The few specific puzzles with a tight skill restriction, such as "Atte katte nuva", seem to enforce their solution pretty reliably, though. ;)

Also, the tricks taught on the first two ranks are supposed to prepare you for the entire pack. The third rank then requires some of these tricks without prior announcement... (like the one you used on "Block around the clock") - but of course not all of them, right out of the gate. ;)

As such, the sum of the difficulty in the Amateur rank definitely exceeds that of the Professional rank, because there's simply more to learn on Amateur, whereas Professional is the first rank where you're actually "free to play (all by yourself". :)

And as my preemptive christmas gift, here is the rest of the rank. ;P

QuoteAs such, the sum of the difficulty in the Amateur rank definitely exceeds that of the Professional rank, because there's simply more to learn on Amateur, whereas Professional is the first rank where you're actually "free to play (all by yourself".

Well, if the tutorial is harder than the levels that rely on the lessons learned after that, then those levels fail as tutorials. :8():

The ammount to learn should not matter for the rank if the lessons are easy enough. Some of the lessons are (even with the pretext) simply too hard to count as tutorials.

They are good levels, don't get me wrong, but fail as tutorials.


After the last bit of Professional was quite a cakewalk, levels like 3 26, 3 27 take the difficulty up by several ranks, while 3 40 is very easy again. So even with liking a lot of the levels here I must say the packs difficulty curve can be best described with this:

(https://media.giphy.com/media/t2eBr71ACeDC0/giphy.gif)

Maybe the next level is easy or hard the rank is not really a reliable hint at this here. ;P

For the level types:

I must say I like the non-landscape levels a lot more than the landscapes as often the puzzle falls a bit shorter there (that london bridge for example is waaaay too long than it has any right to be :evil:).
Often the style overshadows the solution and takes away from it and I play lemmings for the puzzles first and the style comes second. For me the style should add to the solution and try to not take away from it.

Again I like quite a lot of the solutions, but those landscape levels are currently the weak link here.

In terms of song references, I get about 50% of them. :P

Also those flagpoles..... I assumed them as solid first, then discovered they are non-solid and then found one in a level that was solid! :evil:   That pole should get an animation of some sort to make it clearer as an object or maybe move the flagpoles out of the active playing zone where they don't disrupt anything.

Thanks, IchoTolot! :) I'll have a look at them this weekend, and then I'm simply going to fix the entire rank, along with the talismans.

QuoteWell, if the tutorial is harder than the levels that rely on the lessons learned after that, then those levels fail as tutorials. :8():

The ammount to learn should not matter for the rank if the lessons are easy enough. Some of the lessons are (even with the pretext) simply too hard to count as tutorials.

They are good levels, don't get me wrong, but fail as tutorials.

I think the problem is more rooted within the fact that, once a level gets more complicated, specific tricks that are part of the intended solution become more and more difficult to enforce. ;) For example, "Block around the clock" from the Professional rank is conceptually much more difficult than the levels that teach the tricks you're required to know for this level (namely, "Lemmy I hardly knew ya" and "Wonderwall"). However, due to the fact that all these elements are combined in a single level, more degrees of freedom are added to the solution, so that there is no longer jus one specific sequence of actions that works. I've already tried to enforce the intended solution on this level through the use of pickup skills, as well as toying around with on-terrain fire traps that ended up getting removed again, because they weren't fulfilling their purpose.

QuoteAfter the last bit of Professional was quite a cakewalk, levels like 3 26, 3 27 take the difficulty up by several ranks, while 3 40 is very easy again. So even with liking a lot of the levels here I must say the packs difficulty curve can be best described with this

Interesting to hear! Neither "Budapest" nor "Moskau, Moskau" looked particularly difficult to me when I watched Arty play them. :)

QuoteI must say I like the non-landscape levels a lot more than the landscapes as often the puzzle falls a bit shorter there (that london bridge for example is waaaay too long than it has any right to be :evil:).
Often the style overshadows the solution and takes away from it and I play lemmings for the puzzles first and the style comes second. For me the style should add to the solution and try to not take away from it.

This is the reason I'm creating Lemmings Open Air! ;) It will be pretty much only abstract level shapes, which are free to be shaped based entirely on the solution, i.e. "top-down" (starting with the solution, then creating the terrain around it).

Lemmings World Tour, in contrast, was designed "bottom-up", for the most part - i.e. starting with the terrain, then coming up with a solution that fits. Regarding the landscape levels as a group, I think I can at least say that each of the solutions for them is rather unique; there is not much repetition of tricks or similar going on between the various landscape levels. But they usually have a little more leeway than smaller, abstract levels where the skills are exactly accounted for.

QuoteIn terms of song references, I get about 50% of them.

That's quite a good share! ;) It's set up in a way that everyone should be able to get some of the references; nobody will get all or even just the majority of them.

You might start recognising more and more titles the higher you get, though, because the higher levels are based on more and more famous songs. On the lower ranks, meanwhile, I snuck in the occasional obscure reference that probably just I will understand, given the small size of our community. I was actually surprised anyone got the reference "Na zdorovje Lem" from Pit Lems (someone in the comments section of nin10doadict's LP). But that level is also included in LWT as part of the Encore rank.

QuoteAlso those flagpoles..... I assumed them as solid first, then discovered they are non-solid and then found one in a level that was solid! :evil:   That pole should get an animation of some sort to make it clearer as an object or maybe move the flagpoles out of the active playing zone where they don't disrupt anything.

The default one used is the L2 Circus flagpole (the white one), which is always an object. As such, whenever something else is used to hoist the flag, it's always solid, and usually so for a reason. ;) Hence, in those cases, the flagpoles can't actually be moved out of the playing area, because they are part of the solution.

I agree that a secondary animation for L2 Circus flagpole would be helpful in general, but I don't see how that's possible with the pole itself? The checkered flags from L2 Circus that are supposed to be attached to them are of course moving.

Thus, a part of me fears namida will at some point just merge the flag and the pole into one object, thereby breaking the flag animation on any LWT level that uses the L2 pole. :(

But fortunately for me, I think this is not possible - because the flag pole by itself must continue to exist in order to vary the length of the L2 Circus flags, as well. Simply using the "height" parameter for objects, like for water areas, won't work, because in that case, the entire object would just repeat itself, thereby putting a second waving flag under the first one.

My suggestion for a secondary animation for the L2 flag pole would therefore be a shimmer / reflection of some sort? This could go up or down the flag pole, making it look as if it were reflecting the sunlight.

The updated version is attached to the starting post. The last version had 20 downloads (still visible from the strato_generalmd tileset having the same number of downloads), so I take it that comparatively many people are playing this pack at the moment. Thank you all for your continued interest in the pack! :thumbsup:

Professional 07, 08, and 20 have had backroutes fixed, a couple other levels have had their sprites and/or backgrounds adapted. The latter changes are exclusive to the New-Formats version, because they were basically just about restoring these levels to the state they were in in the Old-Formats version. Meaning, the Old-Formats version already has these levels with the desired sprites and backgrounds. For example, the stars on the American flag on the level "Bay of Pigs" weren't displaying correctly in New Formats, this has been fixed, as well.

Also, all the talismans that are present in the Old-Formats version (10 in total) are now also included in New Formats! :D

Solved the first 10 Diva levels. Still need to resolve the fixed ones as over the holidays I completely forgot the update. :P

Alright, resolved the fixed levels and also solved further ahead to Diva 20. At the current state, the Barcelona level was the hardest for me so far. :)

Thanks again, IchoTolot! :)

"Holy Diver" and "Blocking all over the world" still seem too easy. But I currently don't have any idea on how to fix that; specifically, on "Blocking all over the world", you created another shortcut with Bombers, and since Bombers don't care about one-way arrows in any direction, those are pretty much impossible to prevent. This is also true regarding your solution to "Don't cry for me, Argentina" on the Diva rank. Steel stops Bombers completely, one-way arrows don't stop them at all. So basically, the only way to prevent Bomber shortcuts is making the Bombers pickup skills. But even that isn't always feasible.

The majority of your solutions to the first 20 Diva levels, however, are either intended (levels 01, 05, 08, 10, 12, 16, 17, 18), or valid alternative solutions (02, 03, 06, 07, 09, 13, 14, 15, 19).

Spoiler

Diva 06, "Diggas in Paris": I remember this trick from your L2 Let's Play, where you repeatedly assigned and cancelled Stompers (which are basically synonymous with Diggers) to move horizontally. But that almost would have deprived you of a way to remove the last bits of the Eiffel Tower, forcing you to spend Builders on that. Pretty clever! :thumbsup:

Diva 07, "Born this way": I think you mainly just swapped the use of a Stacker and a Builder here, in comparison to the intended solution.
Also, I noticed that the labels for the pre-assigned-skills on the hatch overlap in New Formats, so I might have to bring back the old style of labelling the hatch with pickup skills, so that the order in which Climbers, Swimmers, Floaters, and Gliders appear becomes apparent again.

Diva 09, "I won't hold you back": You cleverly used the Glider to give the Fencer a head-start in front of the crowd. In the intended solution, you can't prevent the second Lemming released from the hatch from turning around in the Fencer tunnel; that lemming then becomes the Glider instead, bouncing off the dart arrow to land on the lower platform, and then he completes the path from the other side. But since both solutions require all the skills, both are fine! :thumbsup:

Diva 13, "Brick house": Totally not intended, but that was pretty darn clever! Especially the tiny piece of terrain you left over on the left side, so that the Climbers don't splat from falling straight into a Digger tunnel. I could prevent this by adding steel to the bottom layer, but I found this pretty amusing. :D

Diva 14, "Foot of the mountain": I never expected anyone to use the left side of the level - the intended solution basically just creates one long Fencer tunnel. But directing the lemmings back and forth from one side to the other looks very elegant, as well, especially with the way you used the (cancelled) Fencer for crowd control instead.

Diva 15, "If you're going to San Francisco": When I saw the beginning of this solution, I thought it would be another backroute; but you still ended up using all the skills, and there was just as much timing involved as in the intended solution, if not even more. Getting on top of the bridge through the lower part on the left was definitely efficient, but then you needed more skills towards the end. Very clever alternative solution! :thumbsup:

Diva 16, "Puff, the Magic Dragon": Ah, yeah, that lightning trap from the ONML Bubble tileset is now joint with the engine that creates it; in Old Formats, it was just a single pixel of a dot that I could hide in the dragon's eye. Now it looks as if he were holding some kind of goblet on top of his head. Is the dragon now guarding the Holy Grail? :D
Since the trap is somewhat relevant to the solution, I can't simply hide it. And if I make it "no overwrite" again, the lightning would be displayed behind the dragon terrain, I think, rather than on top of it.

Diva 17, "Believe in life after Lemmings": You spared one Builder and one Basher by using timing to isolate the first pioneer; the intended solution re-seals the Basher shaft in the beginning behind the pioneer, with a Builder, which then consequently needs to be cut through with the remaining Basher later on. Apart from that, this is the intended solution.

Diva 19, "Barcelona": That was quite a complex approach, but valid nonetheless! :thumbsup: This level still unintentionally featured the Millas sprites, I'm going to swap those out for the next update. I don't have any issue with them per say, far from it; I just don't think they particularly fit to Spain.

Diva 20, "Only time": This was another radiation-based level in the original, so the intended solution can't really be replicated in New Formats anyway. I upped the save requirement to increase the challenge; in the original version, a bunch of lemmings die, because the radiating zombies free them before splatforms can be built. Without those radiating zombies, the 9/11 reference (which Arty correctly identified during his Old-Formats Let's Play) obviously also gets somewhat lost in New Formats.

I uploaded a merely cosmetic update: My dark-skinned Lemmings are finally back! :thumbsup: They are now a recolouring scheme that is part of my strato_generalmd tileset.

This is what they look like (example level, not part of any pack):

(https://i.imgur.com/nTvpC7a.jpg)

Three levels have had their sprites changed to these lemmings: "Waka Waka" (Professional rank), "Diggas in Paris" (Diva rank), and "Africa" (Legend rank). I've also changed the sprites on "Barcelona" back to default, because they were accidentally still the Millas sprites.

You will have to re-download both strato_generalmd and the pack to make these changes visible. If you only re-download the styles, your versions of the levels will still point to the default-coloured sprites. If you only re-download the pack, I guess the sprites will fall back to default on those levels that now have strato_generalmd selected as their theme.

The colour of the one-way arrows on "Waka Waka" has also changed as a consequence, plus, the blue background from the Shadow tileset is actually not a background, but merely a picked colour. Hence, "Diggas in Paris", with the theme no longer being L2 Shadow, now has a slightly darker background (egypt sky).

The version of strato_generalmd in the development thread for Lemmings Open Air has also been renewed, so you can use either of these downloads; both will work. ;)

Finally, the zombies have had their skin set to completely white (colour code #ffffff), to make them more distinguishable from the standard zombie skin. This is also based on feedback I got from the first time when I shared these sprites.

Originally, the zombies were supposed to represent mummies, as these sprites were intended to go with the Egyptian style. Hence, their skin is brighter. But of course, they could also be evil colonial landowners... :evil: Interpret that as you wish; just know that this change was made mainly for game-mechanical reasons. ;)

I tried it out on one of the levels I'm developing for the L3D-inspired pack Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll - and since Zombie Blockers are only labelled as "Blocker" when hovering your mouse over them, it was really close to impossible to tell normal dark-skinned lemmings apart from zombies. Now, there should no longer be any confusion between the two.

After playing  for LOTY and other stuff I played further on here and solved 10 more Diva levels. :)

It made me quite angry and frustrated, because you can't see when you actually went over/under trigger areas (or where they are in the first place). I guess you know which level I mean here. :devil:

Yes, I know which level you mean ;) . But since this is a rerun, I can assure you everything is exactly in the same place as it was the first time. So I think this criticism is actually more relevant to Noisemaker 15. Sure, in this case it's different because there is no Disarmer, so you have to e.g. build over some traps. But that's what skill shadows are for - you can clearly distinguish a staircase that leads the lemming into a trap from one that goes over it, because the latter should show its full length as a skill shadow, whereas the former is shortened, going only as far as up to the trap trigger.

I'll have a look at your replays soon and see whether anything needs fixing! :thumbsup: Thanks for returning to playing this pack!

Finished Diva and as the last time I posted replays was over a month back I also sloved Legend 39&40 on top of it (I have skill left over though). :)

Thanks for the replays! :) A couple of leftover skills are no problem if the basic idea is that of the intended solution; this has also happened multiple times on Arty's LP.

Now you've caught up with that LP though, so everything from the Rockstar rank and onwards is uncharted territory! :thumbsup: Definitely expect a lot more backroutes on the last two ranks, since I haven't received any replays for those yet... ;)

Your solutions to the last two levels of the Legend rank are compeltely fine, though, and very close to the intended solutions.

In the second half of the Diva rank, there were only two backroutes, and only one major one:

Spoiler

"Wrecking ball": Here you went into the ground and under the obstacles. I've already added steel to the level file to prevent this; I just need to upload the new version, and I have a couple other changes I want to make before that - mostly referring to pre-level texts and sprite choice, nothing about the levels themselves.

"Total eclipse of the builders": I wasn't aware you could chain several destructive skills like that to prevent any lemming from turning around while going through the pillar! :thumbsup: At release rate 99, there isn't much I can do about this, aside from making a couple of these skills pickup skills. Pickup skills are usually the last resort to backroute fixing, after one-way arrows. But one-way arrows won't solve anything here, since there is no type of one-way arrow that allows Bashers to pass but prevents Miners from doing so.

Solved 10 more levels today.

And another 10 so that Rockstar is half completed now.

Thanks, IchoTolot! :thumbsup: I'm relieved to say that there are barely any backroutes among these, and generally much fewer than I anticipated! Given that you seem to be the first person who plays the Rockstar levels (and also one of our most skilled level solvers), I believe that's a good sign!

Disclaimer: I generally don't consider a level backrouted if a) the player got close to the intended solution, but was just slightly more efficient in skill use than me, i.e. has a couple of leftover skills that don't really matter all too much in the grand scheme of things, or b) a player does find a completely different route than the intended one, but still uses all or almost all of the skills (that is what I call a valid alternative solution, because it still arose from and is subject to the same restrictions, in terms of terrain and skills provided, as the intended solution).

With this set of criteria (some may be stricter about enforcing their intended solutions), there are only two backroutes in the Rockstar rank: One minor one which could still also qualify as an alternative solution, if I didn't like the intended solution so much that I do feel the need to enforce it :P . That's on the level "Highway to Hell". Containing the crowd shouldn't be quite as easy as it was for you, but this is something a little steel can solve.

The second backroute, which is a more severe one, was on "Under bergets rot". The lemmings are still supposed to go through the mountain, not around it on the outside. Typical case of the Stoner being overpowered again. I still have to think about how I can fix this.

At the moment, you seem to be solving these levels faster than I can fix them, even if there are only few that I need to fix :-[ ... so prepare for one major update sometime soon, instead of several minor ones. I do want to add some further recoloured sprites to some of the geography levels, as well as expanding the pre-level hints on the Noisemaker rank a little to make them fulfil their purpose as tutorial levels for these tricks a little more (since this was one criticism you correctly brought up). Especially "Glide and joy" and "Rock, paper, scissors" can end up being unintentional roadblocks for newer players, because the hints the pre-level texts give about the tricks to be used here are too vague.

The pre-level texts are of course also going to be changed in the Old-Formats version (which I continue to maintain for the sake of the Radiation and Slowfreeze levels in their original form). The sprite recolouring, meanwhile, of course will only happen in New Formats.

The update has been uploaded to the starting post! Please make sure to download the entire folder again, since I've changed the sprites on several of the levels to include my various recolourings (English, Irish, Soviet, Asian, African, Indian etc.). The tileset strato_generalmd now also comes as part of that unified ZIP folder, so you have all wrapped nicely in one place!

I've also used the opportunity to place "disjointed" versions of the ONML Rock Lizard and Bubble Lightning traps in my strato_generalmd tileset (meaning just the lizard's head, without the eye as a secondary animation, and just the dot that creates the lightning). Those were required for the Groupie level "Not the incended solution", to make it look like the Old-Formats version again. Also generally a good thing to have for all my animal-trap needs! :P

Level-wise, the changes are the same as in the Old-Formats versions:

- two backroute fixes each on the Diva rank ("Wrecking ball" and "Total eclipse of the builders") and Rockstar rank ("Highway to Hell" and "Under bergets rot"), with "Under bergets rot" still being somewhat vulnerable (the intended solution, as it turned out to me, was too over-complicated to begin with, so that there will most likely always be an easier way out... :-[ )

- extended pre-level hints on "Glide and joy" and "Rock, paper, scissors" on the Noisemaker rank. The tricks are now actually explained, rather than just hinted at. Especially "Glide and joy" (Noisemaker 08) was probably an early roadblock for any new player who might have attempted this pack. I went to great lengths to enforce using that specific trick there, which raised the level's difficulty - but in the end, it's just supposed to teach that trick, so hopefully it will be a lot easier now! ;)

- steel added to Noisemaker 11 to prevent digging behind the hatch on the right (this is a minor loophole I found myself that allowed bypassing the central trick at the beginning of the level, even though it still had to be used again at the end of the level). Now the central trick is enforced in both level halves.

I resolved the levels. :)

ok now i'm on to finishings the replays for world tour that Ichotolot had minus all but 2 levels of legend and 1 level of groupie.  thx Ichotolot. I love watching these replays as well as your other packs(just finished doing dovelems and pimolems-all good).

Solved 10 more Rockstar levels today and also updated my old replays.

Could you confirm that no level broke due to the changes in glider physics? ???  Would not be pleasant if I encounter an impossible level later on. ;)

Will do. I'll watch them now, including the updated ones. i'll report back when I'm finished. Thanks Icho. Also my conversion of Reunion to Superlemmini is finished. I'll saved all the replays. also I thanked Kaywhyn as he was there all the way. Also I'm there with him for his United replays.

Quote from: ericderkovits on August 10, 2020, 07:24:14 PM
Will do. I'll watch them now, including the updated ones. i'll report back when I'm finished. Thanks Icho. Also my conversion of Reunion to Superlemmini is finished. I'll saved all the replays. also I thanked Kaywhyn as he was there all the way. Also I'm there with him for his United replays.

I know my replays work - I tested them all. I was rather referring to @Strato Incendus about the part of the pack I haven't solved yet. ;P

ok sorry, I'll do that then.

Quote from: ericderkovits on August 10, 2020, 07:54:09 PM
ok sorry, I'll do that then.

What will you do? I am confused now, did you solve all of Lemmings World Tour and can confirm to me that every level in there is solvable and nothing is broken in the part I haven't solved yet?

If not then only Strato himself can confirm that to me.

yeah your right I can't do this as there is no replays yet. and I didn't solve them.

Hi IchoTolot, to my knowledge this change in Glider physics should only affect Shimmier interactions.

Since Lemmings World Tour was originally made for Old Formats and thus doesn't include any Shimmier levels (nor does the New-Formats version, since I didn't add any new original levels during conversion), this shouldn't be an issue that affects Lemmings World Tour.

Lemmings Open Air had one or two levels affected, but that pack is still in its development stage, and I have already adjusted the levels in question a while ago ("Mr Sandlem, give me a dream" and "My life would suck without you").

Quote from: Strato Incendus on August 11, 2020, 06:47:42 PM
Hi IchoTolot, to my knowledge this change in Glider physics should only affect Shimmier interactions.

Since Lemmings World Tour was originally made for Old Formats and thus doesn't include any Shimmier levels (nor does the New-Formats version, since I didn't add any new original levels during conversion), this shouldn't be an issue that affects Lemmings World Tour.

Lemmings Open Air had one or two levels affected, but that pack is still in its development stage, and I have already adjusted the levels in question a while ago ("Mr Sandlem, give me a dream" and "My life would suck without you").

No, that not true. The glider behaves slightly differently in many scenarios. I had quite a few glides in United where no shimmier was present that broke. Especially updrafts are affected, but also normal glides.

Could you simply do a mass replay check of your own replays to check if everything is alright? ???

Mmh, my own replays are all named after the levels and placed in the "Auto" folder, since they are created when I test the level in the editor. If I start a mass replay check in that folder, every replay file within it is checked, including those from other packs.

Then again, if I understand you correctly you are only asking about upcoming levels? Meaning, the question is not whether existing replay files break, but whether any of the upcoming levels are so pixel-precise in terms of Glider use that they might happen to be unsolvable?

QuoteThen again, if I understand you correctly you are only asking about upcoming levels? Meaning, the question is not whether existing replay files break, but whether any of the upcoming levels are so pixel-precise in terms of Glider use that they might happen to be unsolvable?

Exactly. :)

A lot of cases were it was breaking in my case was because a simple glider from the ceiling to a ledge was just not making it anymore or anything with glider-updraft interaction.

Okay, levels that are definitely broken because of updrafts are "Viva Colonia!", "Lemmings in the sky with diamonds", "Wind of change" and "Lemmingrad".

The updrafts are in such positions that the Glider parachute no longer opens up when a lemming drops into them. :evil:

In case of "Viva Colonia", I currently have no idea on how to fix this. It was bad enough with the deadly ceiling enforcing a change at the top of the cathedral, and now everything breaks again.

yes, I currently have all of Icho's replays for world tour up to Rockstar 30, Viva Colonia was broken for his replay. but I managed to fix it myself.

I just moved down the pickup skill a tad above cathedral. so now it will work.

here is the level and replay that icho had for Rockstar 15 Viva Colonia.

Well, isn't this fascinating? I just took a look at Viva Colonia and even though the glider physics is broken, I still managed to backroute the level by using all skills except the glider! My solution is the exact same as Icho's,

Spoiler

Except I used a fencer to release the crowd (thanks to a hole in the starting platform where the entrance is) and I built to the miner pickup at the end, and I use a miner to get to the buried exit (only one spot works for that, the lowest before scaling the cathedral). For mining the OWW, I made sure that he gets both pickups and hits the steel to turn around, thus avoiding the need to use a builder to turn him around. For that, I had to dig a bit before mining the OWW for it to happen. Let's just say mine is way more precise in skill assignments and also involves releasing the second climber such that it turns around in the basher tunnel at the top of the cathedral in order to mine the OWW. Me and my extreme pixel precision lol.

I will say this, though, and that is the trigger areas to collect the pickup skills seem very wonky. For the miner pickup at the end, there's only one spot to build to collect it, and that is after he falls twice. Building in the nook above closest to the basher tunnel doesn't get it even though he crosses right in front of the pickup. Similarly, when I was mining the OWW, there were a few times where he crossed in front of the fencer and miner pickups and still didn't collect them.

Oh, and the flag at the start. I didn't know that it's part of the background and not solid terrain! Thus, I dug and bashed underneath it.

So, the level is still solvable even with the broken glider physics and the miner pickup in the original position in the updraft, but still need to fix it. Probably should still be fixed anyway if you consider this a backroute since my solution doesn't even use the glider!

edit: Strato, let me know if you still want my replay for Rockstar 15, but I think the spoiler tag does the job of describing the backroute solution somewhat well.

In my recent replay batch I had to fix "Viva Colonia", but it definitly not broke in an unsolvable way. Maybe when it comes to the intended way though. ;P

More replays and at this point, I definitly want a clear report on which levels are broken that lie before me.

I played up to Legend 4 and here I HIGHLY suspect breakage due to a glider not gliding long enough so another assignment is not in time by 1-2 frames.

Spoiler

The stoner has to contain on the bottom right hatch. The stoner alone is too slow and therefore the glider needs to be used to get the first lemming ahead enough. This fails now by 1-2 frames and you need the other skills elsewhere.

I can be wrong here of course, but before I waste time on an impossible level, I rather stop and ask.

EDIT: I've attached a replay that solves the level with saving 1 less lemming. The lemming would be saved without the glider problem.

So before I continue this pack I want to see either:

1.) A clear report on which levels are broken ahead of me with a textfile of a mass replay check that confirms which replays broke.
2.) A patch that fixes all broken levels together with a textfile of a mass replay check that confirms that everything is solvable now.

If you don't have solving replays to all of yout levels here then take this as a chance to create them as a functioning replay collection is a must have to any pack to confirm solvability and detect any breakage. ´

QuoteIf you don't have solving replays to all of yout levels here then take this as a chance to create them as a functioning replay collection is a must have to any pack to confirm solvability and detect any breakage.

Of course I have solving replays for all the levels. :P Why would anyone not test a level after creating it?

The difference here is that the physics were changed in hindsight (and of course, this also only affects the New-Formats version; the original version for Old Formats, for which LWT was initially created, after all, works perfectly fine).

I have done a mass replay check and I've already told you above which levels did not receive a "tick". ;) After the initial mass replay check, there were some levels unticked that didn't involve Gliders or updrafts at all and that I could still resolve manually. The reason for this is that the replay files were of course created in Old Formats (I've run the replay-updater tool on them, so I also have a .bak file for each of those replays in the Old-Formats Auto folder).

My New-Formats Auto folder thus includes re-solving replays for levels that had to be slightly adapted to New Formats.

The levels listed in my previous posts are definitely ones with updrafts where my formerly solving replay files don't work anymore: "Viva Colonia!" (Rockstar 15), "Lemmings in the sky with diamonds" (Legend 06), "Lemmingrad" (Legend 07), and "Wind of Change" (Legend 10).

I haven't looked at the mass-replay text file yet (and can't access it right now, maybe tonight). Instead, I went by the level selection menu within the pack (i.e. looked which levels remained unticked and checked those again individually).

Does a mass-replay-check text file include "pass" statements by every replay file checked, or by level in the pack? i.e. does it list the number of levels and label them "passed" or "not passed", or does it include the names of replays instead?

Because in the latter case, I don't think the text file will be of particular use to you: As previously said, I had this mass replay check run over my entire "Auto" folder where all the replays are named by level name (as created by testing in the editor), instead of by rank + level number (as they are named when they are created while playing the entire pack).
This is better for me as the level designer in case levels shift positions in ranks; replays named only "Rockstar 15" don't tell you anything about the level hiding behind that title.

Thus, there are a bunch of replays for other packs in that folder that obviously won't pass any of the levels in Lemmings World Tour.

Also, some of the Old-Formats replays used during the mass replay check running over the Old-Formats Auto folder will have received a "fail", which would then appear in the mass-replay-check results file, but the levels are still solvable using the New-Formats replay.


I can take a look at Legend 04 again tonight and then I'll post the result here.

Quote
I have done a mass replay check and I've already told you above which levels did not receive a "tick".
...
I haven't looked at the mass-replay text file yet (and can't access it right now, maybe tonight). Instead, I went by the level selection menu within the pack (i.e. looked which levels remained unticked and checked those again individually).

I think you completely missunderstood for what the "ticks" inside the level selection menu are.

Of course they don't change as the level file itself did not change. Only if you edit the level file or replace it then the tick changes to a yellow tick or a dot.

The ONLY thing you can go by when you check for breakage is the mass-replay check result text file. Only there you can see which levels need investigation --> everything labeled "Failed" or "Undetermined". It does not mean the level is broken, maybe only the replay file needs slight adjustments, but it means the level might be broken.

QuoteBecause in the latter case, I don't think the text file will be of particular use to you:

Of course it is! It's a proof that every level has been solved by a replay.

The textfile exactly shows which replay is connected to which level and if it solves it. It will show for example that "Great level name" is solved by the replay "Legend45" - so the replay names don't matter. I myself use the level's name as the replay name for my own stuff.
Example
-Passed-
Great level name: Legend45.nxrp (framecount)

I've attached an example of a replay check I did a week ago or so. The one failed replay is because you used the same level ID for 2 different levels and the replay check connected the replay with the wrong level. It solves the other level with the same ID though.
Therefore it is recommended that even for reused levels you at least change the level ID.

Quote
I had this mass replay check run over my entire "Auto" folder
...
Thus, there are a bunch of replays for other packs in that folder that obviously won't pass any of the levels in Lemmings World Tour.

Make a folder "Lemmings World Tour" inside NL's replay folder and put all your own LWT replays in there. Then you only have the replays that matter counting.
Replay files need to be organized! Simply putting everything in 1 folder ends in chaos. Every pack you create and solve should have an own folder with replays so that everything is nicely ordered and can be checked easily.

Okay, I've checked my replay of Legend 04 ("Take me home, country roads"), and it works fine. The reason that yours doesn't is simply because you're making a small conceptual mistake of when to assign the Stoner. :P

QuoteI think you completely missunderstood for what the "ticks" inside the level selection menu are.

Of course they don't change as the level file itself did not change. Only if you edit the level file or replace it then the tick changes to a yellow tick or a dot.

The ONLY thing you can go by when you check for breakage is the mass-replay check result text file. Only there you can see which levels need investigation --> everything labeled "Failed" or "Undetermined". It does not mean the level is broken, maybe only the replay file needs slight adjustments, but it means the level might be broken.

Thanks for the explanation. I have run all my replays over the Legend rank "manually" (loading the level and holding down the space bar) and I can thus assure you that, aside from the levels I've listed so far ("Lemmings in the sky with diamonds", "Lemmingrad", and "Wind of Change", i.e. Legend 06, 07, and 10), none of the Legend levels is broken.

I will have a look at the two remaining ranks (Encore and Groupie) soon.

QuoteMake a folder "Lemmings World Tour" inside NL's replay folder and put all your own LWT replays in there. Then you only have the replays that matter counting.
Replay files need to be organized!

They are organised - alphabetically. :P This means I don't have to navigate through a bunch of folders, especially when jumping between different packs. Now that I'm working on several packs in parallel, this comes in really handy. I can just start typing the level name while inside my Auto folder an immediately find what I'm looking for, no matter which pack it is from.

Who would have known that somebody would tinker the physics in hindsight? Don't get me wrong, I understand why the change to Glider-Shimmier behaviour was made (even though I did like that trick with gliding on top of the stack :evil: ). It's just that such retroactive physics changes after the official implementation of a skill (in contrast to experimental versions) were one of the things that were for the longest time sure not to happen. So I don't feel bad that my way of organising replays happens to not fit this one weird corner-case of a retroactive physics change.

Without such fundamental changes in game mechanics, I've never felt the need to do a mass-replay check in the first place. During the conversion to New Formats, I re-checked every level once by manually running a replay over it, but that was because I had something to change about almost every level (and if it was just re-adding the backgrounds, many of which were resetted by the converter tool). I wanted to make sure with my own eyes that every level still looked the way I had intended it to in Old Formats, or at least as close at it was possible in New Formats.

In order to now place all LWT replay files into one folder, I'd have to go over the entire list of level-name-based replay files, find the 320 among them that are in LWT - some of them are also included in other packs, though, especially on the Encore rank, so that's an additional thing - before I could isolate them in a separate folder. Hardly worth it.

The hotfix has been uploaded; Rockstar 15, Legend 06, 07, and 10 have all been fixed now. Thus, the entirety of the Legend rank can be solved again..

In most cases, it was only necessary to move the updraft section down 1 or 2 pixels (and then potentially re-adjust the timing of all skills assigned to that lemming afterwards, but those were of course just things specific to my replay file that no longer meant the level was unsolvable per se). The needed to be high enough for the Glider to start flying, after all.

Thanks to ericderkovits's suggestion for how to fix Rockstar 15, but moving the pickup skill so far below the updraft was not the intended solution. ;)

In case of Legend 10, I had to slightly adjust the terrain as well, because the problem was not just the lemming missing the updraft, but landing on terrain before he could take off as a Glider inside that updraft. This has lead to slightly worse aesthetics on one particularly iconic building from Moscow in that level. But I guess it's hard to notice unless you actively pay attention to it.

Quote
Okay, I've checked my replay of Legend 04 ("Take me home, country roads"), and it works fine. The reason that yours doesn't is simply because you're making a small conceptual mistake of when to assign the Stoner.

Ok, good. Updated replay attached.

Quote
Thanks for the explanation. I have run all my replays over the Legend rank "manually" (loading the level and holding down the space bar) and I can thus assure you that, aside from the levels I've listed so far ("Lemmings in the sky with diamonds", "Lemmingrad", and "Wind of Change", i.e. Legend 06, 07, and 10), none of the Legend levels is broken.

You really don't have to do that manually when you got the mass replay check, stop the madness! Even your auto folder will be fine as every replay which does not have a level in this pack will be put under "level not found".
Just try it and you'll see that the mass replay textfile is the best and most important source of information about the effects of a new patch! Guess how I find all these bugs so quickly after a new patch/exp version? ???  Mass replay check --> Textfile --> Look at undetermined/failed replays.

QuoteThey are organised - alphabetically. :P This means I don't have to navigate through a bunch of folders, especially when jumping between different packs. Now that I'm working on several packs in parallel, this comes in really handy. I can just start typing the level name while inside my Auto folder an immediately find what I'm looking for, no matter which pack it is from.

I still highly advertise sorting replays for each pack in different folders as the the folder will grow larger and larger and it will get more and more messy (even when alphabetically sorted) and just clicking on the pack's replay folder will be way faster then.
Even when handling my massive ammounts of DNA data at work I rather sort in many diffrent folders than one, because at some point the folder beomes so large that even navigating through it becomes problematic and just a having to click on a seperate folder is much quicker.
Also checks will get longer.

QuoteIt's just that such retroactive physics changes after the official implementation of a skill (in contrast to experimental versions) were one of the things that were for the longest time sure not to happen. So I don't feel bad that my way of organising replays happens to not fit this one weird corner-case of a retroactive physics change.

Without such fundamental changes in game mechanics, I've never felt the need to do a mass-replay check in the first place. During the conversion to New Formats, I re-checked every level once by manually running a replay over it, but that was because I had something to change about almost every level (and if it was just re-adding the backgrounds, many of which were resetted by the converter tool). I wanted to make sure with my own eyes that every level still looked the way I had intended it to in Old Formats, or at least as close at it was possible in New Formats.

You should always be prepared for the possibility of slight physics changes. Also, even without mechanic doing a mass replay check after an NL update is highly recommended. You just are on the safe side after it that no weird new bug messed up your stuff. It just takes a few minutes and you got new proof textfiles that everything is solvable. :)

QuoteIn order to now place all LWT replay files into one folder, I'd have to go over the entire list of level-name-based replay files, find the 320 among them that are in LWT - some of them are also included in other packs, though, especially on the Encore rank, so that's an additional thing - before I could isolate them in a separate folder. Hardly worth it.

It's extremely worth it when you are doing maintenence and and want to avoid problems in form of too many files in one folder. Trust me it will only get more and more messy in there and problems will form and grow over time.

Alright and that's the lengend rank finished. 8-)

Replays attached.

I have to make one rant though! :devil:  Legend 27......

1st: The constant sound of multiple teleporters that just gets worse and worse made me mute the sound. Just let the lems die and set the save requirement accordingly.

2nd: The stupid unfair zapper clouds that zap you out of nowhere! The grey clouds should not be traps, they are intended to act like steel! If you just took the bubble zapper for example and put it on top of them - no problem, but nooo everything has to be hidden that the player has no chance seeing the dangers in advance by looking at the level. :devil:

Sorry but I again feel the need to rant a bit after the Encore rank! :8():

Solved the Encore rank ... I would have liked to say, but it seems like you still haven't done that mass replay check and informed me that Encore 05 is broken due to the gliders not reaching the 2nd platform anymore.

Please, just run a quick mass replay check and see if a replay fails/is undertermined. Even if you got every replay in 1 folder it still tells you which ones fail and the other not World Tour related ones would fall under "Level not found" anyway! So it would still work.

Otherwise, we've got an exit which trigger area is not visible due to water and you need to keep guessing where it actually is with your stoners. (Encore 13) :devil:

An invisible trap (Encore 33) :devil:

And a level where you know it's just annoying to play (see postview text of Encore 39) and just blame it on the hard-worker removal. Instead you just could have done one of the following possibilities which would spare the players nerves:

1.) Just making the level smaller with only 1-2 stacker gaps.
2.) Think of an alternative solution to the level and enforce that.
3.) Leave the level out of the pack and put it in Lemmicks instead.

All these options would have been better than a postview text shifting the blame! :devil:

My replays are attached.

QuoteEncore 05 is broken due to the gliders not reaching the 2nd platform anymore.

Thanks for informing me! :) I've had to move and even erase a bit of terrain to make it work again, but it should be barely noticeable. The version with the fixed level is attached.

I had only checked up to the end of the Legend rank, i.e. the main pack, so far. Meaning, no guarantees yet for the Groupie rank. But I will take a look at those as quickly as possible.

QuoteSolved the Encore rank ... I would have liked to say, but it seems like you still haven't done that mass replay check

As I've told you above, I've actually done a mass replay check already. ;) It's just that the output file is pretty useless.

Quote from: Strato IncendusI have done a mass replay check

The reason being that a lot of replays in the folder fail not because the level is unsolvable, but because they are Old-Formats replays. There are a couple of levels for which I had to create new replays in New Formats: Levels formerly featuring radiation and/or slowfreeze, some levels requiring a hand-made terrain ceiling (because of the switch from solid to deadly ceiling), and then there were also some levels for which the solution is the same, but slight unknown variations during conversion caused the original replay to fail. Thus, those replays are in the New-Formats folder.

For all the other levels, however, whenever I change something, I do so in Old Formats first, re-run the replay, then either manually implement the change in New Formats or, if I want to be on the safe side, quickly re-convert the level again. Then I run the exact same Old-Formats replay over the New-Formats version, thus ensuring that the same solution works in both versions.

Consequently, when I run a mass replay check over the Old-Formats folder that contains all the LWT replays, of course this results in a bunch of failed messages for Replays from Paralems and Pit Lems, as well as for Old-Formats LWT solutions that don't work in New Formats, but are still perfectly fine replays for the Old-Formats version.

I maintain those in parallel (e.g. Arty already told me he's going to continue playing the pack in Old Formats), and therefore of course don't delete those replay files from the Old-Formats folder. And especially with the Encore rank, there is even more overlap with replays for Paralems and Pit Lems.

In short, the mass replay check file on the Old-Formats replay folder gave out so many errors that I would have to re-check a ton of levels again manually anyway, because these failures can be caused by a multitude of reasons listed above, and only a fraction of them is due to the Glider-Faller physics change. And most of these are issues that I have of course already fixed in the New-Formats version - it's just that those fixed levels have dedicated New-Formats replays as a consequence, which are not in the Old-Formats folder. The few levels that are affected by the Glider-Faller physics change are thus a needle in a haystack of replay files failing for various other reasons.



Instead of manually identifying and copying all the 320 Old-Formats replay files to the New-Formats replay folder, I went the faster opposite route and copied the few replay files which are dedicated New-Formats replay files to the Old-Formats folder. Now I could run a second mass replay check over the entire Auto folder once again, so there should be at least one solving replay for every New-Formats level in that folder. This will take a while, though, because there are obviously still a bunch of replays from other packs in that folder.

QuoteOtherwise, we've got an exit which trigger area is not visible due to water and you need to keep guessing where it actually is with your stoners. (Encore 13)

Yep, this is always the issue with underwater levels - be the water real or an updraft, like in Arty's tileset - it's trigger areas covering traps and/or exits that's the problem in general. Perhaps it would be a worthwhile suggestion to have trigger areas of different types of objects change colour in true-physics mode whenever they overlap? Meaning, two overlapping updrafts / water / fire areas etc. would not change colour, but an exit inside an updraft, a trap inside water etc. would (e.g. one could be pink, the other one green, to create a strong contrast).

Note though that "Dark fate of Atlantis" used to have a hidden trap, which is set to overwrite / on terrain now. :P So with all the water that the level calls for, it's as fair as it can currently get.

Speaking of hidden traps, though...

QuoteAn invisible trap (Encore 33)

I don't know what you are referring to here. The smasher trap on "We are the Lempions" is clearly visible above the water. The levels before (Lost in Space) and after (Fire in the hole) don't even have any traps, just fire areas, and those are also visible.

Are you referring to a different level, maybe? Or is there something different in your version of the level compared to mine? ??? "We are the Lempions" is from Pit Lems, after all, and in that pack I tried to be as mechanically fair as possible (even fairer than on some select LWT levels featuring a certain octopus :evil: ).

QuoteAnd a level where you know it's just annoying to play (see postview text of Encore 39) and just blame it on the hard-worker removal. Instead you just could have done one of the following possibilities which would spare the players nerves:

1.) Just making the level smaller with only 1-2 stacker gaps.
2.) Think of an alternative solution to the level and enforce that.
3.) Leave the level out of the pack and put it in Lemmicks instead.

All these options would have been better than a postview text shifting the blame!

The level "Brothers in arms" actually already is part of Lemmicks (on the Eternal rank featuring the hardworkers gimmick, obviously). ;)
This was just the best way I could re-create it in 10.13 and New Formats, given that "Brothers in arms" is a very famous song that I hardly wanted to leave out.

The original plan in Lemmicks was to have a Basher bash alongside with a Platformer platforming - hence the level title. Didn't quite work how I wanted it to, even in Lemmicks, but the title remained. ;) And thus, now it's here on the Encore rank.

Now you know what I meant when I said in the opening post that the Encore levels were not selected for quality - only because they happened to be previous levels that had also been named after songs. ;)

That said, I obviously wouldn't have included the rank if I hadn't had the impression that a good amount of them are at least worthwhile. Some I even really like quite a lot (e.g. "Na zdorovje Lem" and "That's the name of the game").

Cool, now that Encore 5 is fixed, I solved this one, since it was easy. Also I redownloaded the Pack from the new uploaded link. Also redownloaded Icho's replays. All passed the Mass Replay checks.
As Rockstar 15(Viva Colonia) is now changed, Icho's replay for this level is now good also. So now I'll be waiting for any new uploads for the pack if there are any to correct any glider issues in the
final rank Groupie. Once that is done and Icho posts replays for the Groupie rank, and I turn everything green, then I can officially say I have this pack as another completed pack with replays.

QuoteOnce that is done and Icho posts replays for the Groupie rank, and I turn everything green, then I can officially say I have this pack as another completed pack with replays.

Well, what does that really say if you "solved" the pack just using someone else's replays? ;)

Also, being the savvy player that he is, I'm pretty sure IchoTolot is going to find many further backroutes. Especially since he's the first player to actually make it to the final ranks, it seems. These backroutes I will have to fix afterwards, and then a good chunk of your "replay collection" won't work anymore.

So even if you just like to collect replays and compare and contrast solutions, this endeavour is going to turn pointless pretty quickly, at least at this stage.

I may upload my official solutions at some point (e.g. after IchoTolot has finished everything and thus every level has been subjected to backroute scrutiny by an expert player at least once, with me fixing all backroutes found that way). Then every level should be in a reasonably backroute-proof state. Sometimes these backroute fixes indeed require slight (e.g. timing) adaptations to the replays of the intended solution.

If I do upload my intended replays, I will do so separately for Old-Formats and New-Formats, because the radiation and slowfreeze levels obviously have completely different solutions between the two versions.

Or, if I feel like it and have a lot of time, I might do a creator's commentary series on YouTube, if anyone is interested? ;)

QuoteAre you referring to a different level, maybe?

Yes, sorry, it was the other Sports level (Encore 35) with the invisible egyptian smasher trap in it.


Regarding the whole replay system you are using:

The fact that you are having these troubles now proves that your current system is extremely flawed and is in desperate need of fixing.

I would drop everything right now and make fixing the replay structure the number 1 priority! The most important thing: Seperate old and new format replays completely so that a mass replay check can indeed be run! - Saw you indeed did that.

QuoteInstead of manually identifying and copying all the 320 Old-Formats replay files to the New-Formats replay folder, I went the faster opposite route and copied the few replay files which are dedicated New-Formats replay files to the Old-Formats folder. Now I could run a second mass replay check over the entire Auto folder once again, so there should be at least one solving replay for every New-Formats level in that folder. This will take a while, though, because there are obviously still a bunch of replays from other packs in that folder.

Yes do it, it should still be quick. It's a very essential feature and assuring solvability of the pack to new players needs to be fast and trivial.

I still would go even further and invest the time to seperate the replays to each pack in different folders. Just trust me that the time spend on this well invested. A good structure when organizing files is essential.

Up to Groupie 15. In 16 I am standing before a wall with no destruction skills and no pick ups...... :devil:  I don't know if a gimmick was intended here or you just missed to give the player some skills.....

Attached the replays so far.

...and here's the fix for the Groupie rank (upload in the starting post)!

The initial mass replay check listed three levels as failing in which the Glider-Faller physics change didn't actually render the level impossible - it just altered the timing of my skill assignments in those particular replay files. Those were the levels

"That's a hard level that is" (Groupie 02)
"You know you make me wanna shout" (Groupie 13)
"I see fire" (Groupie 34)

Thus, nothing has changed about these level files; I only needed to correct the timing of the skill assignment in my replays. If anyone has solved these levels in the meantime using the current NeoLemmix version, those replays should still work.

The only levels that needed fixing were "Read my lips" (Groupie 10) and "All for love" (Groupie 16).

Groupie 10 needed one particular platform to be placed two pixels lower so that a Glider dropping from the ceiling could still land on it.

Groupie 16 had a completely unrelated issue: It is a level featuring an infinite number of Fencers.
In Old Formats, the number I set the skill count to for this purpose was 200.
In New Formats, the Fencer skill somehow was missing from the panel entirely.
As far as I recall, this was not the case during my initial conversion to New Formats, because I checked every single level again back then.
When I re-entered the number 200 in the New Formats editor, it was automatically set to 100. Apparently this is now the number instructing NeoLemmix to just set the skill count to infinite.

Maybe this change was implemented somewhere in the meantime, between two New-Formats versions? ???

QuoteUp to Groupie 15. In 16 I am standing before a wall with no destruction skills and no pick ups...... :devil:  I don't know if a gimmick was intended here or you just missed to give the player some skills.....

As you can see, I had already discovered this myself in the meantime. :P I warned you yesterday evening that Groupie hadn't been checked yet, but it is now.
If you insisted on continuing to play in the few hours between yesterday evening and right now... :evil: But of course, I appreciate your persistence! :thumbsup:



I've attached the results of the latest mass replay check. I figure the PASSED section will be most informative to you, because some levels have an earlier (=Old-Formats) version of a replay listed under FAILED, but then another replay in the folder that solves it, and therefore the level will also appear under PASSED.

The levels are sorted alphabetically, but each line starts with the rank and level numbers, which are consequently all over the place. If you're looking for a particular level, just look for its name in the alphabetical list in the PASSED section and ignore the rank and level number before the name.

I guess in order for the mass replay file to show the levels in chronological order, when working with named level files as created by the editor (instead of numerical level files as created by the player), each of those level files would have to start with a rank number, then followed by a level number (01_01, 01_02, and so on). So the issue of alphabetical vs. rank and level number will always be present when using replay files created in the editor.

It seems this tool is overall more useful for checking whether your replays for somebody else's pack still work (because those are usually created while playing, i.e. in the player and therefore sorted by number instead of by level name), and less optimal for checking one's own pack. Of course, there will always be more packs by others a given person is playing than the number of packs that person created themselves, so it's still obviously a very useful tool most of the time.

QuoteYes, sorry, it was the other Sports level (Encore 35) with the invisible egyptian smasher trap in it.

Ah yeah, that is an old Paralems level. The reason I didn't change this in LWT is again an aesthetic one (kind of like with "Octopus's garden" and "Thunderstruck"), because I wanted the smashers to line up with the walls, i.e. look like they're coming out of the walls, rather than half out of thin air. Yes, this buries the trigger in the ground, but it wouldn't be much more visible otherwise either, given that both the trigger and the terrain are green, and the trigger is just 1 pixel high.

You kind of have to cover that pit anyway, because the lemmings can't get out otherwise. Maybe depending on how you assign the Miner, you could make it work.

I might change this in the future, I'll have to make up my mind about it. Either way, it shouldn't make or break solutions, because the height of the trigger area isn't relevant to the solution. It's a pure visuals-vs-game-fairness thing.

QuoteYes do it, it should still be quick. It's a very essential feature and assuring solvability of the pack to new players needs to be fast and trivial.

It actually is fast in general; the reason it takes longer is because the mass replay check always stops at the Groupie level "Hiroshima", giving me the message of falling back to default sprites. So I need to be present at the screen to click that message away.

I assume this is because GigaLem's Millas sprites don't contain a Jumper sprite yet? "Hiroshima" is one of the GigaLem-Groupie levels, so they kind of have to feature those sprites. There is no Jumper on the level (not in the entire pack, even), but of course, if you're using NeoLemmix 12.9, the engine will require every sprite set to have a Jumper sprite as much as any other sprite.

QuoteI would drop everything right now and make fixing the replay structure the number 1 priority! The most important thing: Seperate old and new format replays completely so that a mass replay check can indeed be run! - Saw you indeed did that.

In fact, the opposite was the solution - throw both Old- and New-Formats replays into one folder so that the mass replay check always finds at least one working solution! :P

And that makes the pack completed. All replays attached. 8-)

QuoteMaybe this change was implemented somewhere in the meantime, between two New-Formats versions?

All skill counts can only go up to 99, this was patch quite a while ago.

QuoteI assume this is because GigaLem's Millas sprites don't contain a Jumper sprite yet?

Giga's Millas are already updated. In the most recent version they do have that jumper sprite and I myself have no disruptions in my replay check.

Quote
It seems this tool is overall more useful for checking whether your replays for somebody else's pack still work

It's VERY effective in checking your own packs. I myself save replays for my own levels with the level name as the file name just like you do and I see immediately when something goes from PASSED to FAILED/UNDERTERMINED.

It's also very fast and I can proof solvability to all my packs in a matter of minutes.

Quote
In fact, the opposite was the solution - throw both Old- and New-Formats replays into one folder so that the mass replay check always finds at least one working solution!

This just shows that your replay folder needs an exorcist. :8():

All new format replays (one for each level) in one folder. The old format replay collection in another one. That for each and every pack.

First things first: Congratulations on and a big round of applause for being the first to beat the entire (New-Formats Version of) the pack, IchoTolot! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I had already fixed the backroutes you found (where possible) up to the end of the Rockstar rank (but I haven't uploaded an update yet). For now I've taken a look at your replays for the Legend rank. As I've expected, with higher level complexity, larger skill sets, and thus more degrees of freedom, the number of backroutes went up significantly - at least for you being the first one to even attempt these levels.

Funnily enough, the levels I expected you the most to backroute were the ones you actually didn't backroute. ;)

I'm writing down my feedback to the single Legend levels in the spoiler tag - not just for you, but also for me to remember what I need to fix. 8-) Right now, it's still fresh in my memory, but I'm sure this will take a while to implement.

IchoTolot Legend rank

01: Bolemian Rhapsody: This was more or less fine, just a slightly more skill-efficient use than intended. I may have to make those one-way arrows at one place go down all the way to the bottom or place some steel there. You went under one of the one-way blocks by bashing through the archways.

02: Purple Rain: Classical case of the intended solution being so complex that it provides way too many Builders and Platformers - enough for you to just build over everything. I'm not sure how to fix this yet.

03: We can be heroes: You saved one Platformer, but that skill is optional anyway. This should also be fine.

04: Take me home, country roads: Well, I'm glad this one apparently gave you a slightly tougher nut to crack, given that you came to me first, attributing your troubles with solving this one to the Glider-Faller physics change. ;) Of course, I assume even my obscure way of phrasing how this was not actually down to said physics change was probably already enough to make someone as experienced as you immediately think of the correct solution: That the Glider has to be stoned while still floating in the air. If you allow him to land, he will do the oh-no animation, which will take too long, since you need to prevent any lemming from slipping past.

05: Hallelujah: Slightly more skill efficient than the intended one, but close enough to still be acceptable.

06: Lems in the sky with diamonds: The hidden lightning trap in the thunder cloud is a flavour thing, just like on "Thunderstruck", we've already discussed that. The solution itself was slightly more efficient than the intended one, but still fine.

07: Lemmingrad: You've got the main trick right on this one, and I'm hesitant about fixing the part where you used the shortcut - because the intended solution is very pixel-precise. Some thoughtfully-placed one-way arrows should be enough to enforce this... I'm just not sure I can do it with a clear conscience. But I probably should, given that this is the last main rank... and you still had a couple skills left over. :evil: This same issue came up again on Legend 37.

08: Master of puppets: A very nice alternative solution! :thumbsup: That's the way I like it!

09: Eye of the tiger: Ah yeah, those god-damn horizontal one-way arrows that don't stop Diggers. So I guess additional steel is in order.

10: Wind of change: Again, the intended solution requires quite a few Platformers... which you could simply use to build over the long updraft instead of actually using it (and then platforming on the way back). Another one I'll have to wrap my head around for quite a while to see how I can fix this.

11: Living on a prayer: Mmh, it's pretty hard to make these thin tailor-made-for-blockers stripes of wood backroute-proof... They're too small to layer steel on top of them. Maybe I'll have to abuse upward arrows as steel again.

12: We will rock you: Perfectly acceptable alternative solution! I've found that severely limiting the number of destructive skills is often a good way to prevent any serious backroutes, because long shortcuts through large sections of terrain are simply not possible. You also got the main trick here, which was making the Basher go through without causing the crowd relying on those same constructive skills to splat. So it's not even as "alternative" a solution as some of the others. ;) Just not exactly the intended one.

13: Nothing else matters: This started out as something looking like a really cool alternative solution, but then shaped up to something way too easy. Not sure how to fix it yet...

14: Can't get no satisfaction: Completely different than intended, but you still had to find creative ways of stalling the crowd, and you only spared 1 skill. This is fine by me.

15: Waterloo: By itself, the solution to this level isn't very complicated. Just deal with the opposing army (=zombies) somehow. To someone who played Paralems, having this level this high in the pack may look outright stupid. But given that there aren't a lot of zombie levels in LWT, a player who doesn't have too much experience with them might still face somewhat of a challenge with this.

16: Bridge over troubled water: Nice alternative solution! Especially the Stacker-Digger-Stacker part at the top to prevent the Climbers from going into the water. That poor Blocker though, you just let him stand there in the rain, making him one of the two that can die... :D He was supposed to be freed by the last Climber going through him, who should have done so by digging.

17: Y. Lem C. A.: And another one where you went over the top. The C just needs some steel.

18: Comfortable numb: Very close to intended, this is fine.

19: Imagine: And here's one I expected you to backroute somehow, but you didn't. ;) This is pretty much the intended solution. Some things seemed a little different while just watching your replay (without directly comparing it to mine), but I can't quite put my finger on it.

20: Don't stop believin': A very clever alternative solution to another level I feared you would find a backroute to. :thumbsup:

21: Kashmir: Nailed it, exactly as intended! :thumbsup: I was quite relieved to see this! The main trick is quite complex, I wasn't sure whether the level would sufficiently enforce it.

22: Blowing in the wind: This was a very nice solution overall, but you probably noticed that the zombie Climbers were just killing themselves without requiring any effort on your part. Looks like, while I made sure that all the levels which required regular lemmings to bump the ceiling had solid terrain there, I forgot to do so for the few zombie levels. In this case, if the zombie Climbers don't go beyond the ceiling and die, they turn around, go over the smaller pillar, drop off the platform and start causing trouble for the crowd on the left, which you could just allow to drop into the pit with the exit. The zombie ceiling issue came up again on Legend 38.

23: Wish you were here: Close to intended, but it still seems a bit too easy. Let's see what I can do to make this slightly harder.

24: Let my Lems open the door: The first iteration of the level ("Clocks") you performed exactly as intended; this one, the rerun, was still close, but a little bit further off. I haven't quite decided yet whether this is a "problem" or not. ;)

25: I will survive: More skill efficient than the intended solution (you're supposed to get past the lightning trap by cloning the faller, instead of just building over it - I thought I had made sure you need the Builder elsewhere). I like the way you used the basher to free the crowd on the right, though. This may or may not require fixing.

26: Time to say goodbye: Here you used all the skills - the solution just seemed way more straightforward than the intended one. Which makes me think it may have been too easy for you to find out? ;) It's weird, on many of these levels you spared a couple of skills, but I don't consider them backroutes... here on the other hand, we might have one of the few cases of "backroute despite using every skill". I usually just regard all-skill-using solutions as alternative ones, but I'm not quite sure here.

27: Thunderstruck: Now I see why you thought the teleporters were pointless. ;) They actually do play a slightly larger role in the intended solution. I'm not sure I can enforce that beyond what you did, though (the second half of the level was pretty much as intended). Also, yeah, we already talked about the lightning traps from the thunder clouds, see Legend 06.

28: Just a little bit: Similar issue to Y. Lem C. A., you could basically just go over the top, by repeatedly digging into the terrain and then building. So you basically did the same thing on every letter of the word "R.E.S.P.E.C.T.", which must have felt quite repetitive. ;) Digging into the terrain to get far enough below the ceiling and then building is part of the intended solution for some of the letters though - and one those where it shouldn't be done, I've placed steel right at the edge. I'll have to closely compare my intended to your solution to find out where exactly you went off the intended path.

29: Africa: Intended. I already had a feeling this one would be alright when it had just started. ;)

30: Knocking on Heaven's door: It's funny that Gliders can push buttons while floating through updrafts. I don't even remember, that might actually also happen in my solution. The rest seemed strangely easy, though, and I can't quite figure out why.

31: Ganglem style: You didn't collect one of the Stoner pickups, but then you used every skill you had available. This seems like a reasonably close alternative solution.

32: A whiter shade of pale: This was the level I feared the most you would backroute. But again, you didn't. ;) This is exactly the intended solution.
That said, I had tried for quite a while to make some fiddling with the Stacker work, so that you could bash straight from below instead of sending a Climber up first. Because I couldn't make the backroute work myself, I was reasonably confident that nobody else would either.

33: Houze of the Rising Sun: This is an open-ended level and thus pretty much one that can't be backrouted, just solved in various levels of skill efficiency.

34: Purple Haze: Cheeky, you've found one small spot where you could place the Stoner in such a way that the Platformer would still reach the terrain on the left, but on the right side there would remain a gap to reach the exit. The intended solution requires the platform to seal everything off completely, so that you have to do some additional fiddling to make sure everyone drops down facing to the right. Let's see if I can re-adjust the terrain by a couple of pixels enough to break your solution, without simultaneously breaking mine... :evil:

35: Scarborough fair: This was an unexpected timing-based solution, but the way you temporarily isolated the crowd while making sure you had two worker lemmings was quite clever. Another one where I'm not sure if I want to break this solution or not.

36: The Phantom of the Opera: Yeah, this level never really turns out as challenging as I expected it to be. Using the Basher tunnel to turn one lemming around and make him platform was the main thing to do.

37: Breaking the law: This was supposed to be the hardest level on the main ranks. Similarly to "Nothing else matters", you started out with a good alternative solution, but it ultimately became too easy. Similarly to "Lemmingrad", you got one main trick right but used shortcuts on the rest. And similarly to "We will rock you", I thought limiting the destructive skills so drastically would be enough to make this level backroute-proof. In case of "We will rock you", it was. But here, even though I was very close to allowing this as an alternative solution, some carefully placed steel will be required to break this one. You used the protruding part of that square block to dig to the exit. The thing is, that protruding piece is indeed needed, but in order to start building from there. And the way to the exit should be carved by a Miner. Thus, I must be careful with the steel placement, otherwise the Miner won't be able to go through either.
Maybe some one-way arrows at an earlier stage, where you used the Basher and the Fencer, will already suffice, though - because that should disable the rest of your solution by means of exclusion.

38: Thriller: See "Blowing in the wind", the zombie Climbers at the exit kill themselves without any effort on the player's part. I really just thought about regular lemmings needing the ceiling. Because the zombies at the exit thus didn't cause additional trouble for you, you could use your resources more liberally to just build over all the earlier zombie crowds.

39: I will always love lemmings: Pretty much intended with some minor variations.

40: The time of my life: You joined the two crowds on the left right from the beginning, and you freed the middle crowd with a Miner where I think I used a Bomber. But apart from that, this was also pretty close to intended.

To be continued soon! ;)

QuoteAll skill counts can only go up to 99, this was patch quite a while ago.

Well, infinite skills are still possible. ;) It's just that you apparently have to type a 100 into the skill count specifically to make it work, rather than any number larger than 99.

QuoteGiga's Millas are already updated. In the most recent version they do have that jumper sprite and I myself have no disruptions in my replay check.

Thanks for the info, then it seems I just need to update my style files! ;)

QuoteAll new format replays (one for each level) in one folder. The old format replay collection in another one. That for each and every pack.

On the vast majority of the levels, the solution for Old and New Formats are the same. So I'd rather have one file for each solution instead of having duplicates leafing around that I could then accidentally modify independently of each other. ;)

When checking your own packs, do you make more use of the "PASSED" section, or of the "FAILED" section?

I assume the FAILED section is supposed to be very short, so that each entry there serves as an alarm signal. The thing is, though, that I deliberately also keep replays of backroutes, so whenever I change something about a level, I can run those again and make sure the backroutes are still disabled. Thus, those formerly solving replay files will always show up under failed, and in that case, this is a good thing, because they shouldn't be allowed to pass. ;)

Of course, with steel and one-way arrows, those usually remain in place, so they don't require constant rechecking when editing a level. In contrast though, any adjustments to the skill panel and, by extension, placement of pickup skills, can easily re-introduce backroutes again, if the player suddenly has a skill at their disposal again that they shouldn't have, and can then use it in a place where they shouldn't use it. 8-)

QuoteFirst things first: Congratulations on and a big round of applause for being the first to beat the entire (New-Formats Version of) the pack, IchoTolot!

Thanks! ;)

Quote
When checking your own packs, do you make more use of the "PASSED" section, or of the "FAILED" section?

FAILED and UNDETERMINED.

I've got only the replays of the pack I want to check in the selected folder, so if nothing is in FAILED or UNDETERMINED  and everything is in PASSED it's alright. This can be checked in a second if you've got the file.

Basically, if I see anything in FAILED or UNDETERMINED then I need to check what's wrong.

QuoteThe thing is, though, that I deliberately also keep replays of backroutes

Keep them in a seperate folder called "Lemmings World Tour Backroutes". In there they won't interfere anymore and if you want to do an additional check on them if they still fail you can do that as well.

A big congratulations from me as well for not only officially being the first person to finish the pack, but also for finishing the largest level pack there currently is! :thumbsup: That's quite an accomplishment. I'll get to LWT eventually. It's on my to-play list, but it's probably going to be a while before I do so, since there's still plenty of other level packs that I'm currently prioritizing. I have plans to do both the Old Formats and the New Formats versions. I should probably start with the Old Formats version first, considering that no one else has finished it, as well as getting used to the culled objects and other things exclusive to the v10 NL players. Not to mention there isn't as many packs in the Old Formats left for me to play. Come to think of it, unless I'm forgetting some of the packs, I think Strato's (Pit Lems, Paralems, and Old Formats LWT are the ones that come to mind) are the only ones left I need to play in Old Formats. We'll see.

edit: Forgot about Casualemmings, where I'm currently stuck on Super Mecha Gators with the uber crocodile traps. Now, you said that Perky 20 is indeed possible? Ninoaddict showed you a solvable replay of the level?

yes I got all of icho's replays now for LWT. But I had to redownload Stratos pack 2 days ago since he altered some levels because icho's replays were broken (ie Viva Colonia).
I did a Mass replay check on Icho's new Updated replays and now there all good.

So I updated my list of custom new format packs I have replays for.

QuoteI should probably start with the Old Formats version first, considering that no one else has finished it, as well as getting used to the culled objects and other things exclusive to the v10 NL players.

I'm very happy to hear that! :thumbsup:

QuoteCome to think of it, unless I'm forgetting some of the packs, I think Strato's (Pit Lems, Paralems, and Old Formats LWT are the ones that come to mind) are the only ones left I need to play in Old Formats. We'll see.

If those are all you have left to play in Old Formats, don't be hesitant to jump straight to LWT, as far as packs on that Old-Formats list are concerned. ;) Paralems was my very first pack and quality levels are few and far between. Pit Lems is mechanically fair and slightly more challenging, but it has no overarching theme, in contrast to LWT. Plus, I am still working on Pit Lems Remastered for New Formats anyway, which is going to be Pit Lems + the best levels of Paralems mashed into one slightly larger pack (150 levels).

Unless of course you want to give my radiation and slowfreeze levels from Pit Lems a try. Those won't make it to New Formats, obviously, and some of them I am quite proud of. :D In that case, I'd probably point you to Old-Formats Pit Lems first.

Quoteedit: Forgot about Casualemmings, where I'm currently stuck on Super Mecha Gators with the uber crocodile traps. Now, you said that Perky 20 is indeed possible? Ninoaddict showed you a solvable replay of the level?

Coincidentally, this is one of the few levels from Casualemmings that only exists in Old Formats. I've redesigned traps for New Formats in such a way thought that it should be possible now to convert the level to New Formats, and include it in the new version as well. I've already contacted nin10doadict about this, but haven't received a response so far. :P

Quote from: Strato Incendus on September 14, 2020, 12:10:54 PM
Coincidentally, this is one of the few levels from Casualemmings that only exists in Old Formats. I've redesigned traps for New Formats in such a way thought that it should be possible now to convert the level to New Formats, and include it in the new version as well. I've already contacted nin10doadict about this, but haven't received a response so far. :P

Yes, I remember you saying that you were willing to lend nin10doaddict a hand in converting the uber deadly crocodile traps. However, that's not my main concern. What I want to know is if he ever showed you an actual replay that solves Perky 20, as I'm still finding the level completely and downright impossible. The 3-in-1 crocodile trap triggers way too fast (well, the first two anyway, the zapper from the bubble tileset and the lizard tongue from the rock tileset). From what I remember, I think you said that he gave you hints on how to solve it. From what it seems, there appears to be no solving replay of the level around anywhere. So really, I'm just asking to confirm solvability of the level, as I think it's impossible due to how I haven't solved it yet. Of course, just because I can't solve it doesn't mean that it is impossible.

QuoteSo really, I'm just asking to confirm solvability of the level, as I think it's impossible due to how I haven't solved it yet. Of course, just because I can't solve it doesn't mean that it is impossible.

Yeah, I asked nin10doadict for a replay back then as well, because I was pretty ashamed of not being able to solve a level that was supposedly inspired by myself. :oops: I had a solving replay once, but when running it again now, it also failed.

However, I just figured out the solution again for myself. My new replay for "Super Mecha Death Gators" is attached. ;)

PS: Back to the pack of this topic. :P

Quote from: Strato Incendus on September 14, 2020, 03:28:27 PM
Yeah, I asked nin10doadict for a replay back then as well, because I was pretty ashamed of not being able to solve a level that was supposedly inspired by myself. :oops: I had a solving replay once, but when running it again now, it also failed.

However, I just figured out the solution again for myself. My new replay for "Super Mecha Death Gators" is attached. ;)

Ok, thanks. I'm still insisting on not peaking at your replay until I have solved it myself, though! I only watch replays after I have beaten the level first, as I prefer the satisfaction of figuring out the solution myself :P However, good to know that it is 100% possible and that I can stop going insane thinking it's not. I posted a while back in the Casualemmings level pack topic but didn't get any kind of response whether Perky 20 was possible.

Quote
PS: Back to the pack of this topic. :P

My bad. You're right, of course. Looking forward to giving LWT a playthrough whenever I get to it! ;)

The next update with the fixes to IchoTolot's backroutes from the Rockstar and Legend rank has been uploaded to the starting post! :D

No changes to Encore or Groupie yet.

Changelog

Fixed: (changes specific to New-Formats version are highlighted)

Rockstar 22 (Summer of '69): added steel
Rockstar 38 (Stonehenge): added downward arrows
Rockstar 39 (Holy Mountains): added one-way fields
Rockstar 40 (Dream on): added steel

Legend 01 (Bolemian Rhapsody): added steel
Legend 07 (Lemmingrad): added downward arrows
Legend 09 (Eye of the tiger): added steel
Legend 11 (Living on a prayer): added upward arrows (that act as steel)
Legend 13 (Nothing else matters): added upward arrows (that act as steel)
Legend 17 (Y. Lem C. A.): added steel
Legend 19 (Imagine): no backroute fix needed; I just corrected the starting position of the screen (that sometimes gets displaced during conversion)
Legend 22 (Blowing in the wind): added a steel ceiling where relevant to keep the zombie Climbers from killing themselves. This ceiling wasn't added to Old Formats (although I usually try to do that), because the Old-Formats editor doesn't offer the option of drawing a mass-selection window around everything to move the entire level down 2 pixels (=the width of the ceiling). I would have had to move all the pieces in this really large level by hand. Note that in Old Formats, the ceiling is always solid, so this is not relevant for the solvability of the level. I just tried to also include all the steel ceilings in Old Formats retroactively in order to reduce confusion for players switching back and forth between versions
Legend 23 (Wish you were here): added one-way left arrows (that act as steel)
Legend 24 (Let my Lems open the door): added downward arrows
Legend 25 (I will survive): added steel next to the exit; however, IchoTolot's awesome alternative solution remains intact; this is just a precaution I wanted to take against possible other backroutes
Legend 26 (Time to say goodbye): added one-way left arrows (that act as steel)
Legend 30 (Knocking on Heaven's door): added an additional exit button
Legend 34 (Purple Haze): shortened one stalactite a few pixels so that Platformers below a certain altitude can't reach it anymore
Legend 37 (Breaking the law): added steel; this might make the final skill assignment slightly more precise (it already is quite precise), but I think there should be enough leeway not to tank on the steel. Sadly, the way I originally wanted to fix this level (with one-way arrows) didn't work, since there was no way of placing one-way arrows that wouldn't have broken the intended solution as well.
Legend 38: again, added a steel ceiling to keep zombie Climbers from killing themselves (this ceiling is also not present in Old Formats for the reasons stated above)

Deliberately unfixed:

Legend 05 (Hallelujah): I could have gone with a different exit (a lockable one) and enforce the intended solution slightly more by using buttons, but I decided not to. The Pillar exit used here actually has a locked version in New Formats, but not in Old Formats.
Legend 35 (Scarborough Fair): IchoTolot's timing-based solution uses fewer skills, but is still a clever one, so I decided to continue to allow it

Currently unfixable:
All of these levels are playable, of course; it's just that the intended solution is so complex that it requires more skills than any simpler shortcut currently available.

Legend 02 (Purple Rain)
Legend 10 (Wind of Change)
Legend 15 (Waterloo)
Legend 28 (Just a little bit)

Resolved everything relevant. :)

Well, that was quick! ;) Thanks again for your persistence, IchoTolot!

IchoTolot's solutions

Rockstar 22 (Summer of 69): Close enough now, spared one Fencer.
Rockstar 38 (Stonehenge): That was weirdly creative, but kind of cool, so I don't think this requires further fixing. :D
Rockstar 39 (Holy Mountains): Nope, nope, nope, just going underneath that temple building saves quite a lot of skills. Looks like I've got some more construction work to do on the Turkish-Armenian border.
Rockstar 40 (Dream on): Surprisingly skill-efficient - but I guess that's what I get when I make the intended solution include a double-layered Builder staircase. :D I don't think there's a lot more I can fix about this...

Legend 01 (Bolemian Rhapsody): Ah, this looks much better, this is almost exactly as intended! :thumbsup:
Legend 07 (Lemmingrad): This is one I'm really happy about! :thumbsup: It's very, very close to the intended solution, but without being nearly as precise. Much like with Legend 37, I figured if you had actually found the intended solution, you probably would have criticised its pixel precision. ;) But now I have a clear conscience, knowing that a very similar but much less precise solution exists!
Legend 09 (Eye of the tiger): Yes, compression method is part of the intended solution. Not quite like this, though, but you've made use of other tricks taught on previous ranks (like the Glider gliding over a Blocker to isolate a second pioneer lemming). This is fine by me!
Legend 11 (Living on a prayer): This still seems a bit too easy for my taste. I'm glad the one-way-up arrows on the second platform were enough for you not to try to lead the top crowd there directly, but instead you've joined the top crowd with the one on the right. Maybe I still need yet even more steel...
Legend 13 (Master of puppets): Well, you basically used the same backroute again. But this time, you had to employ the double-Builder turnaround trick to do it! :thumbsup: That's such an obscure trick, but the Noisemaker rank teaches it, and when there is an opportunity to make good use of it on one of the harder levels, why should I punish this cleverness? ;) The pattern of skills you had left over is probably a bit too arbitrary to turn this into a talisman, but it will definitely remain possible to do this!
Legend 17 (Y. Lem C. A.): Since you were able to use the Fencer where you did, that saved you a lot of Builders, which made this solution look a lot easier than it should be. Maybe the letter "C" needs even more steel?
Legend 22 (Blowing in the wind): That was another whacky and weird solution. The intended solution involves radiation anyway, so I'm not too narrow-minded when it comes to tinkering with the New-Formats solution. I think this was "obscure enough" for the final main rank and will thus stay as it is. ;)
Legend 23 (Wish you were here): I put in one-way arrows and you find a way to simply go underneath. :evil: More than that, since you actually built towards those one-way arrows from the other side, I think even if I extend the arrows further to the buttom, your solution will still work, because you can simply have the Builder bash through the stripe of terrain from the other side. Actually, these one-way arrows should just act like steel... Maybe they need to be upward arrows?
Legend 24 (Let my Lems open the door): Not quite as intended, but you used every skill except 1 Basher. Close enough, stays this way! ;)
Legend 26 (Time to say goodbye): Ah, another backroute fix that already seems successful after the first attempt! ;) Like with Legend 01, this is not exactly as intended, but very, very close!
Legend 30 (Knocking on Heaven's door): Better than before; still seems a little easy, but I don't know what more to fix about it.
Legend 34 (Purple Haze): You've got the main trick now, despite saving four skills. Seems close enough.
Legend 37 (Breaking the law): See Legend 07: The intended solution is very precise. Now you've qualified for an alternative solution - since yours also uses every skill! :thumbsup: And I once again have a clear conscience now about the pixel precision of the intended solution, because this alternative approach also exists!
Legend 38 (Thriller): See Legend 22: Obscure enough now. ;)

Maybe with the next update I can finally also fix something about the Encore and Groupie ranks.

Okay, here's a quick assessment of IchoTolot's solutions for the final two ranks:

For Encore, as I was hoping for (but not really expecting, so this was still a pleasant surprise), there were pretty much no backroutes. This is most likely because the levels are taken from older packs, i.e. they have been out for ages, and any one of them that contained backroutes was broken and consequently fixed long ago. The only exception is maybe the level "Twilems", where IchoTolot managed to solve the level in a pretty straightforward way using Platformers, instead of the slightly more obscure intended solution. Maybe I can enforce this... maybe I can't.

Groupie, on the other hand, of course had many more backroutes, because IchoTolot was probably the first one to play the entire rank. Most other people, at least that's how it seemed to me, mainly focused on finding out which level had been dedicated to them, and then they "left". ;) Or, if they did play the entire rank in an effort to find out which levels were theirs, they didn't upload their replays except for those select few which they considered potentially dedicated to them.

Thus, there were quite a few Groupie levels that managed to completely enforce their intended tricks...

Spoiler

That's a hard level that is!, Praise be to God!, (K)itty compression, Scot-free, Take a byte, I am E.T., Johnny B. Goode, A Mazu Grace

...some that didn't enforce the intended signature trick, but still featured nice alternative solutions...

Spoiler

No true Scotslem, Tin limmings on this livel, Read my lips, All for love, Le vent nous portera, Bon appetit!, Kiwi knights in white satin, Dove is in the air, Joga, I see fire

...and some which utterly failed to enforce their intended tricks.

Spoiler

When the cat's away, Stacks and stones, Killed by death, Every Geoff you take, Not the incended solution

Though with "Not the incended solution", a backroute is kind of in flavour - and even anticipated by the pre-level text... :D

"Killed by death" is the easiest fix of them all, because it had the most glaring backroute - glaring backroutes are usually easier to fix than complex alternative solutions.

IchoTolot's solution for "Kiwi nights in white satin" blew me away with some completely new trick I wasn't aware of at all :lem-mindblown: .

Spoiler

Apparently, when digging through terrain with steel at the bottom on one side - and further terrain beneath that steel, but no further terrain under the Digger himself - you can dig in such a way that the Digger still makes a slight dent into the wall under the steel. IchoTolot was then able to have a Climber climb up into this dent and start mining from there.

Quote
IchoTolot's solution for "Kiwi nights in white satin" blew me away with some completely new trick I wasn't aware of at all :lem-mindblown: .

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Well, if I would have digged a pixel more to the left the digger would keep on going. But in this case he only had one pixel left and will therefore stop - and digging down comes before the "can I continue check". The steel is irrelevant here.

You can see this by simply digging down in such a way that a digger stops by only having 1 pixel left to dig on the sides (no steel needed!): He always still digs down the first instance of "1 pixel left" and stops AFTER that.

Be aware even without this dent trick I can backroue this with the "a bit more to the left" way as I have a leftover stacker to cancel the digger.

Moving the steel block a bit down (1 pixel would be enough here) would block any dents as then he stops before that will happen as the steel then is indeed relevant and gives the digger nothing to dig.

Okay, good thing I waited with an update until version 12.10 was released, because a bunch of my old replays broke for unknown reasons.

Maybe this has to do with yet another physics change? I remember reading something about a Miner-Basher inconsistency being changed?
It's not mentioned in the 12.10 changelog though, and I can't seem to find a Bug Thread for it either.

Another thing is that lemmings now seem to slip through ceilings through which they didn't use to slip before. (Since lemmings can slip through thin stripes of terrain, they also do that at the top level border, because terrain above the level border is treated as non-existent, even if a thicker terrain piece is placed there.) I had fixed the ceilings for all levels for which it was relevant during the initial New-Formats conversion, so I knew about this. However, now there seem to be levels affected that weren't before.

Those are easy enough to fix: Just add a couple of pixels extra to the Y dimension of the level, select everything, move it down that number of pixels, and the steel piece or whatever I've placed at the ceiling to prevent lemmings from walking upwards and dying gets lowered further into the level. It takes a while to identify them all, though, especially since I've fixed them all before.

A similar thing is true for the Glider-Faller physics change: I had fixed all levels where this was relevant, but now it's suddenly an issue again.

The strangest error was on the level "Streets of London", where somehow the save requirement had been raised from 57 to 59 (out of 60), breaking my solution because I had used two of the three Bombers. ???

I also had to correct the object name for nin10doadict's cat trap again in one level file ("The lion sleeps tonight"), changing it from the style "nin10_cattrap" to "nin10_misc", and changing the object reference to "TrapCat" instead of "catTrap" - even though I was certain I had already done so.



My replays are sorted and the solved vs. unsolved levels after the Mass-Replay check are easy enough to tell apart;
I'm just referring to finding out whether the level broke because of a ceiling death, the Glider-Faller physics change, or because of some other reason.

So far I've fixed everything from Noisemaker up to the end of Professional, but there are still many unticked levels left.

Sometimes, there's actually nothing wrong with the solution, and the reason the level remains unticked is probably just because the level counts as "undetermined", taking longer than the cutoff amount of time after the last skill assignment for everyone to get to the exit. In that cases, I just run the same replay over the level again that didn't pass the mass replay check (and left the level unticked in the selection menu), and it passes as normal and the level gets ticked. So it is also not a problem of the levels not having my correct user name, because I've run them all through the Replay Refresher again.

At least the menu signs were easy to reset to my custom ones :P . Lemmings World Tour actually didn't have a custom rank sign before (custom rank labels, yes, of course, but not the sign itself). Fortunately, I could still grab those PNGs from Old Formats. :evil: I just had to add separate image files for the old up and down arrows. The new ones look nice on the black menu signs I had made for Lemmings Open Air, but I want to keep Lemmings World Tour as it is.

TL;DR: A bunch of levels broke in version 12.10 and this is clearly more than I can fix in one afternoon. This pack is currently not ready to be played in version 12.10!
If you're currently playing it, either keep it in version 12.9 or wait until the update. Either way, be prepared for a bunch of your replays breaking when you update to 12.10.

As a result, I'm also not sure to what extent IchoTolot's and kaywhyn's remaining replays will still work if I watch them now in version 12.10...
I expected some levels breaking with the update, but certainly not THAT many at once! :lem-mindblown:

Since I'm currently going through the Old Formats version of the pack, do you think I should still wait for your update to the Encore/Groupie ranks, or should I go ahead and solve off the entire final rank?

I haven't fixed the Groupie rank yet, mainly because there are a couple of levels which IchoTolot backrouted but which I still have no idea how to fix. Right now, ensuring general playability of the pack (i.e. the main ranks) is more important.

Never mind with regard to my ability to watch your replays, though. I just realized: Not only that Old Formats is independent from all of this, I also still have the backup of all the levels in my 12.9 folder, to watch IchoTolot's Groupie replays again if I need to ;) .

All the changes to the levels I only made after I had already copied them to the 12.10 folder. It's just that any changes I make in the New-Formats version will only be done on the 12.10 versions of the level files, since there's no use in maintaining 12.9 any longer.

Quote
Okay, good thing I waited with an update until version 12.10 was released, because a bunch of my old replays broke for unknown reasons.

Maybe this has to do with yet another physics change? I remember reading something about a Miner-Basher inconsistency being changed?
It's not mentioned in the 12.10 changelog though, and I can't seem to find a Bug Thread for it either.

Before you try to fix anything and jump to more conclusions:

There was no physics change with this update and all my replays for your pack are still 100% functional with the new NL release! I checked via a mass replay check.

I suspect the issue is that you have some really old replays in there.: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5195.msg87047#msg87047

Quote from that topic:

Quote
The only thing that comes to mind is, are the replays in a very outdated format?

You could try running them through the Replay Refresher to see if this helps. Note: Do NOT use this tool on any replay for a level that uses the Jumper skill; it almost certianly will not handle this cleanly as it pre-dates the Jumper being added. Shimmier is fine.

Also from that topic:

Quote
If your replays are not working, first try using the Replay Refresher tool on them. If they still do not work, please report this - there is a possible bug here, it is unclear and needs further investigation.

Note that the Refresher tool should NOT be used on any replay that uses the Jumper skill.

So stop fixing anything for now as the issue is more likely to be inside your replay files.

Quote from: Strato Incendus on November 14, 2020, 06:23:57 PM
I haven't fixed the Groupie rank yet, mainly because there are a couple of levels which IchoTolot backrouted but which I still have no idea how to fix. Right now, ensuring general playability of the pack (i.e. the main ranks) is more important.

Never mind with regard to my ability to watch your replays, though. I just realized: Not only that Old Formats is independent from all of this, I also still have the backup of all the levels in my 12.9 folder, to watch IchoTolot's Groupie replays again if I need to ;) .

All the changes to the levels I only made after I had already copied them to the 12.10 folder. It's just that any changes I make in the New-Formats version will only be done on the 12.10 versions of the level files, since there's no use in maintaining 12.9 any longer.

Didn't quite directly answer my question about whether or not to proceed, but from what it sounds like above, it's advisable that I wait for the update to the Groupie rank. So, I will go ahead and wait some more for that instead of play through the Groupie rank, even though I really want to just so the pack's done and out of the way. No pressure and hurry at all. There's plenty of other packs to keep me busy anyway, so it's all good. I can also keep myself busy with other LPs I'll be recording. Which reminds me. In case you haven't seen my post on recommendations/suggestions on a 3rd/other level packs to LP, feel free to drop your ideas at my topic. Thanks for the recommendation on Lemmings Migration for my 1st LP ;) Indeed, that's what I ended up LPing as my 1st pack.

@IchoTolot: No worries, by "fixing" I mainly mean "checking everything again whether it works". ;) And then potentially "fixing" the replays instead of the level itself.

As I said though, some levels had random changes to their properties, like the save requirement on "Streets of London" being upped to 59 instead of 57. ???

If IchoTolot's replays still work, then most likely because I've allowed them as alternative solutions. ;) In those cases, often not all the skills are being used, to there is more leeway and less likelihood for failure. If a certain skill is miss-assigned by a couple of frames in my replay, that can cause it to fail, whereas if IchoTolot didn't use that skill in the first place, his solution will be unaffected.

A lot of my replay files also still just run through as normal. I guess on some of them, the failure had to do either with my strato_generalmd tileset not being present yet during the initial mass replay check (since that is obviously one of the few tilesets that don't gome with the standard styles download), or because of overlapping level IDs for reruns.

A noticeable crash however was on the level "YerushaLem shel zahav" from the Diva rank: Apparently, Flopsy swapped out the exit for the Sandopolis tileset? The new one has a narrower trigger area and also looks different. Since the lemmings drop into the exit from above here, the trigger-area size is what's relevant here. I swapped it out for the standard Pillar exit in both Old and New Formats now; that one has a wider trigger area than even the former Sandopolis exit. So now, the level should be slightly easier (not with regard to its puzzle solution, just because of fewer losses; I've provided some leeway for how many lemmings you can lose on this level anyway).


@kaywhyn: Yes, indeed I'd advise to wait with the Groupie rank. ;) It's just a couple of levels I need to fix, but those are very difficult to fix (especially if "fixing" means "enforcing a specific trick that I consider a signature of level designer X"). However, it will certainly be more rewarding for both me and the players when it finally works!



Good to know I can still watch all of IchoTolot's replays in the new version, though! :thumbsup: That saves me a lot of back and forth, thanks a lot for checking this!

And the update is here, with the same fixes to the Groupie rank as in Old Formats, but also including the menu changes required for NeoLemmix 12.10! :D

I expect there will be another huge update after I've watched all of kaywhyn's (Old-Formats) solutions.

Resolved/Rebackrouted the fixed levels.

Are my solutions acceptable now ???  If yes, I would consider recording the pack up soon.

But I highly suspect that there are still backroutes.

Yes, quite a few of them are still at least somewhat of a backroute - and I haven't even had a chance to look at kaywhyn's solutions for the main ranks yet.

I assume there won't be many more backroutes on the first couple of ranks... so if you want to, you can start uploading those. At least I don't remember a lot of backroutes from your replays for the first two ranks, because those had already been played by both Colorful Arty and Flopsy. And whatever I found for those I'm pretty sure I have fixed by now.

But you can expect at least one huge update once I've watched all of kaywhyn's replays.

My collection of your replays also somehow stopped at 12th September - I guess this may have to do with my old laptop having crashed in the meantime, so maybe this was the latest state I had saved somewhere. Anyways, I also re-checked you replays since 17th September, and there are also some things on the Rockstar and Legend rank I can hopefully enforce better. (For example, on "Holy mountains", you could just go beneath that entire temple structure, or on "Blowing in the wind" you could completely ignore the upper exit by simply connecting the crowds. These are the types of backroutes that a few steel walls can fix quickly.)

However, I always implement the changes in Old- and New Formats in one swoop, so that I don't forget any. And right now, I don't want to fix any levels before I've watched kaywhyn's replays (even if they're for Old Formats).

Because I've noticed, some of the fixes I've implemented for kaywhyn's Groupie solutions now already broke some of your solutions for those levels (e.g. Groupie 05). I assume that's because you had found a similar backroute as him, especially with your announcement that you "re-backrouted the levels" :P . But of course, I can never be sure.

The downside of "watching everything first, then implementing the changes" is of course that with such a large pack, it's still easy to overlook somethings when going back to the level editor. I do watch them in bites, of course, not in one piece, and I do take my notes where necessary... but still, some backroutes can always slip under the radar.

I just posted my 100% replay solution to Groupie 40 in the LWT Old Formats. I have just checked with the New Formats version of the level, and my replay indeed works here too. So, find my 100% solution replay attached. The replay was made in v10.13.8. Just like you and Icho, I have speculated that such a solution should be possible. With this great find, we can all now put our minds at rest whether a 100% solution is possible. The only thing that was holding me back in finding the solution was my reluctance in playing the level again, since I voiced being very annoyed from all the excessive scrolling and not being able to watch all crowds at once. However, I rose up to the challenge and even played the entire level all over again from scratch. There were a lot of skill assignments that needed to be tweaked anyway, and so I probably would had ended up being very annoyed from finding the correct action in the replay edit mode to delete anyway since there are way too many skill assignments and finding the right ones would be extremely difficult.

I'll echo a lot of what I said in the Old Formats level pack topic. This solution still took me a really long time to find, 1.5 hours. Also, the solution ended up using all destructive skills provided except 1, meaning 59 destructive skills were used.

Spoiler

I'm guessing in all of our solutions we ended up losing the blocker from the second entrance from the right. As it turns out, a very specific setup is required in order to release the blocker with a single basher with a lemming from the right-most entrance. You will need a spare builder to turn the blocker around afterwards. The spare builder I had was originally used to plug up both very small gaps in the pillar in the middle of the level. That area needs extremely good timing in order to send a climber out to the left before a dent is made that makes it unclimbable. That's why I allowed multiple lemmings to turn around on the blocker to make it easier before releasing him with the final lemming from the entrance.

Icho and Strato, you two are welcome :P Oh, and this is definitely very gold talisman worthy. I say add it in! :thumbsup: Very fitting difficult challenge for the epic final level of LWT! ;) I should be awarded for my efforts in some way, too :P

QuoteIcho and Strato, you two are welcome :P Oh, and this is definitely very gold talisman worthy. I say add it in! :thumbsup: Very fitting difficult challenge for the epic final level of LWT! ;) I should be awarded for my efforts in some way, too

Personally, I don't really care for talismans I must say. I rather don't bother with all the excessive scrolling (as that really annoyed me as well in that level) and save myself a few hours I can spend on other stuff if it's not needed to solve the level. ;P

I don't care for talismans either. It's just that Strato speculated that a 100% solution to Groupie 40 might be possible, which was why the level doesn't have one, and I wanted to lay to rest that speculation :P I decided to go back and try and find such a solution, since it was one that I thought should be doable for one such as myself, even though I was very reluctant to replay the level, since I was very annoyed with the excessive scrolling one has to do in the level. Otherwise, if it's one which I think is beyond my ability to get, I simply don't bother and won't even attempt getting the talisman. The only way I will get them is if I "accidentally" get one while solving where I didn't even know there was one for the level, as once I complete a level and didn't unlock one, I generally will not go back to get them. Of course, this isn't really a problem in New Formats, since it's already displayed on the preview screen, but even then I generally don't bother with them.

I already congratulated you in the Old-Formats thread ;) , so I'm just posting here to say that of course, the talisman has also been added to the New-Formats version. And to list the other changes that came with this small next update (these are the same changes as in the Old-Formats version).

Changelog

Groupie 05: added steel
Groupie 13: added steel and one-way arrows
Groupie 19: added steel
Groupie 40: added gold talisman for saving everyone

Adding this talisman particularly in New Formats was a little bit difficult, because as I mentioned again recently, the New-Formats editor can't actually display the entirety of "The Grand Puzzle", which is why I didn't risk opening it in the new editor (at least not to make any changes to it that I actually intended to save, like adding this talisman).

In Old-Formats, talismans were added in the Flexi Toolkit that compiled the levels to a pack; in New-Formats, talismans can be added to each individual level file, but that meant for "The Grand Puzzle" specifically, I had to do it by manually editing the talisman into the text file.

This was generally easy enough - I just took another New-Formats level text file from LWT containing a talisman as an example.

The only thing that was slightly confusing to me was the talisman ID. The example level I picked, "The Great Level of Indifference" from the Amateur rank, had ID 7 for its talisman.
In contrast, in the Old-Formats Flexi Toolkit, every talisman had a hexadecimal code, as far as I could see.

So I assume talisman IDs are just counted chronologically in New Formats?

I arbitrarily set the talisman ID for "The Grand Puzzle" to 20, even though there are only 11 talismans in total now. If the talismans need to be counted chronologically, this gives me a little bit of headroom in case I want to add further ones later on.

As far as I can tell, it seems to work, but of course, the New Formats player won't respond with "You unlocked a talisman!" if I just run kaywhyn's 100% solution over the level :P , as the Old-Formats player does (since it wasn't able to distinguish between different players' solutions yet).



There is one downside to this talisman having been added now, of course: Anyone who managed to get all LWT talismans before will now suddenly be faced with the what I considered to be impossible task of saving everyone on the final level. :evil:

But at least when comparing it directly to my solution, surprisingly it wasn't actually too far off from what I did. It would probably be comparatively easy to adapt my solution to make it a 100%er, too, now that I know the crucial difference.

And as I said in the Old-Formats thread, it's not what kaywhyn thought it is :P (I'm just cross-posting in the following what I said in the Old-Formats thread):

Groupie 40

Quote from: kaywhynI'm guessing the lemming you lost is the blocker from the second entrance to the right, as that was originally the one I lost in my first solution from a few weeks ago

Actually no; the one Blocker I have never been able to free was the one turning everyone around right before the exit. Or rather, I could have freed him with a Digger, but then he would have walked off to the right, dropped into the abyss and died. Your small modification of my approach, i.e. placing the Blocker inside a Miner shaft and then freeing him with a lemming dropping "into" the Blocker from above by having that lemming mine into the opposite direction (where he needs to mine anyway to allow the crowds from the left to get up) was the big reveal for me. ;)

The rest basically "didn't matter", because it's completely up to the player how they get through the rest. As long as they save one additional Miner to do this, they at least still have a shot to save everyone.

I have attached my solution for "The Grand Puzzle" for comparison, so that you can see which Blocker I mean.

Finally noticed the update and resolved the levels. ;)

Groupie 40 is possible to 100% even with a spare builder as it seems.

What is still bothering me: Noisemaker 15 and Diva_24 still have the same level ID. It would be nice if one would get a new ID.

I still suspect a few backroutes in Groupie though.

Nice job on that 100% solution to the last level, IchoTolot! :thumbsup:

The other three are sadly still partly backroutes. I didn't expect anyone to actually use the steel on Groupie 05 for something - I just put it there to cover the trigger of that second, rotated exit. (In the original version of the level, it was a fake exit, put there merely for decorative purposes. I think this is how it was done in Old-Formats Lemmings Migration as well.)

And I still have kaywhyn's replays to watch, so looks like at least one giant update will be due some time in the future. When I finally get to do that, I will renew the ID for Diva 24, thanks for pointing that out! ;)

Maybe I can create the new ID in the Old-Formats version and then copy it over into the text file of the New-Formats version... if I make a random one in both versions, the New-Formats version won't recognise the replays from the Old-Formats version of that particular level and give a warning that the replay seems to refer to a different level...

Next update is attached to the starting post! :) This includes fixes to the Rockstar and Legend rank.

I haven't looked at any of kaywhyn's replays from the earlier ranks yet - the Rockstar fixes were more urgent, since that's where Arty is going to pick up his Let's Play again.

Given that he had already played that far, though, as well as with Flopsy's LP up to the end of Amateur (I think I also still got some replays from him well into the Professional rank), these earlier ranks have been much more tried and tested, so I don't expect that many further backroutes on those. And if so, then maybe some that are so obscure that only an adept level solver such as kaywhyn himself found them, but nobody who came before him. ;)

Changelog

Rockstar 14 - steel
Rockstar 15 (just a cosmetic change here, added a flag :D)
Rockstar 31 - one-way arrows
Rockstar 38 - one-way arrows
Rockstar 39 - steel

Legend 03 - only in New Formats: made the entire ceiling steel
Legend 06 - fire traps
Legend 10 - 7 Platformers have been turned into pickup skills (here in New Formats it's a single pickup skill object with the count "7"; no need to place 7 separate ones like in Old Formats)
Legend 11 - steel
Legend 22 - steel
Legend 23 - one-way arrows
Legend 27 - steel
Legend 37 - steel
Legend 38 - steel

Groupie 13 - don't even quite remember what I changed here, it's been a while, and it still doesn't seem fixable - these thin terrain stripes that define the visual identity of the level will probably always allow for some sort of Bomber shortcuts

As for IchoTolot's semi-backroutes to those three Groupie levels - they might just have to remain this way. I still don't see any reliable ways to prevent them.

NOTE: This is not for the current 12.11 Release Candidate version of NeoLemmix yet. I have taken note of the levels that broke for those who already played this pack using the RC build, but I will not make any changes to the levels based on that until the RC is released as the new stable version, so all the changes are in fact set in stone.

I hope the level "In the shadows" on the Rockstar rank won't break for good based on the new Swimmer physics changes. The Swimmer has been around for such a long time that it's the last skill I'd have expected to go through any physics changes. :(

Resolved every broken replay after the fixes. Replays attached. :)

Noisemaker 15 and  Diva_24 still have the same level ID! :devil:

Ah, I had in fact changed the level ID for Diva 24, but then I apparently forgot to add the updated level file to the new ZIP download. XD Fixed now!

Interestingly, the two levels already did have different IDs in Old Formats. Only in New Formats did they still have the same one.

I guess I must have made the first change after the conversion. So I copied the level ID from the Old-Formats version for Diva 24 the best I could (that level ID actually was shorter, so the New-Formats editor added a bunch of zeroes at the beginning).

Attached to the starting post is a small update containing backroute fixes for Rockstar 04 and Rockstar 07, as well as level fixes to make the pack playable with the latest change in Swimmer physics.

Changelog

Rockstar 04 and Rockstar 07: added steel.

Professional 07: This level was reported by IchoTolot as broken due to the physics change; however, the part that broke for him wasn't actually part of the intended solution. So I purposefully didn't change anything about this level. :P Maybe the Swimmer physics change has the convenient side effect of helping me slightly more to enforce the intended solution here. :evil:

Rockstar 18: Added a Swimmer and a Stoner and adjusted the save requirement to go along with that. This makes the solution differ only slightly from the former, intended one.
However, the timing becomes more precise as a result, and some parts of this solution may be much more obscure.
I guess it's not a spoiler at this point that you have to circumvent the new Swimmer physics somehow now to make the level work as it used to. And apparently, you can do so through clever skill usage. 8-) I was initially scared this level might just break entirely in New Formats - but gladly, this worry was unwarranted. :D

Rockstar 18 might be among the harder levels of the pack now - but I might be biased right now after having seen Arty struggle with it for an extended period of time to day, even though that was largely due to him overlooking something, as he admitted himself. I do think though that the changes I made to the New-Formats version now would have made all these things even easier for him to overlook ^^.

Therefore, I didn't implement this same change to Rockstar 18 in Old Formats. It might be possible to do that, actually, despite the different Swimmer physics, by slightly adjusting the pixels under water. But since this is not the originally intended solution, I don't want to break the Old-Formats solution without justification. In New-Formats, meanwhile, the physics change broke all working solutions anyway, so I had no choice but to adapt it. Thus, this level became more difficult now, not because I wanted it to, but because it had to.

I updated my replays. :)

And I missed to redo "Holy Diver" :P

Attached the new solution. Also you could use a swimmer hatch here as everybody needs to swim anyway. Would save the player 20-swimmer assignments. ;)

I've started playing through this pack - I have attached my replays of the first two ranks so far.

Really enjoying the theme of the pack & music :thumbsup: - great job with this! Even in the early ranks there are some relatively tricky ones. I also really like how well the levels and titles match up given the theming.

Spoiler

Noisemaker
I like how this rank Introduces various tricks and techniques with a puzzle where it still isn't immediately obvious how to solve even if with the pre-text!

9 - The train in this one looks great!
15 - I found trying to delay the lems suprisingly tricky on this one
24 - My favourite of the rank - I got stuck for a bit not realising I could turn the basher after he completed, and was trying to line things up to make him hit his head on a tunnel instead.
31 - Really like how the solution works with the title on this one!
40 - I enjoyed the talisman solution on this one - using the bit of terrain above the exit to turn around was very satisfying to figure out.

Amateur
3 - I liked the additional challenge for the talisman here
7 - I got stuck for a while on this one until I realised how I was supposed to go over the steel
11 - I'm always a fan of levels that use the original skills - this is really nice puzzle
14 - I managed to find the intended solution initially but couldn't quite spot how to save the climber. I came back to this one later after realising a trick I could use and solved the talisman version - really nice level!
17 - I tried quite a few things that almost worked. I think it is really nice that you have to bash into the water volume rather than go under it.
18 - Delaying the crowd had me stuck for quite a while. I have a feeling my solution here might be a bit forced but probably isn't too far off the intended one.
19 - I really like how much the level solution ties into the title again on this one
27 - I managed a save-all solution here which I think might not be quite as intended based on the post-level text!
29 - I think my solution might not be as intended here given I had quite a few skills leftover
35 - I really liked trying to puzzle out the talisman on this one - It gave me the idea to go back for 14 after I finished the rank. I liked the way the right side needed to be rescued here :thumbsup:
40 - Nice level to finish off the rank, seemingly plenty of skills but they quickly run out!

Professional rank completed - replays attached.

Overall this was another statisfying rank solve, especially the levels that got me stuck. There were a few levels that did feel a bit too big in places (e.g. level 34).

Spoiler

3 - I liked this one quite a bit, given the rather limited options the skills are combined together in quite a few different ways.
6 - A really fun one to figure out, I suspect there are many solutions to this one!
9 - Got stuck on this one for a while as I just didn't consider the staircase idea.
12 - I liked the talisman here, I eventually managed a solution with 2 bashers that saved an extra lemming.
18 - This was another really nice one to solve, in particular how you rescue swimmers at the end.
19 - One of my favourites of the rank, how the blocker is released at the end is clever!
24 - Another fun one of everything
25 - Suprisingly tricky, the skills quickly run out on this one!
26 - This was the hardest solution to spot in the rank. In particular using the fence structure & gathering the lems up so they can safely reach the exit was well hidden in plain sight. Really good level though :thumbsup:
27 - Another tricky level - there are a lot of ways to potentially make a path, but skills quickly run short given there is really only one destructive skill per obstacle.
34 - I did like the puzzle on this one, but the length of the bridge felt like it added too much unnecessary rewinding when adjusting timings
37 - I liked that this level had you send the back two lemmings ahead, rather than just the back one that usually happens when you assign a constructor to a lemming at the back.
38 - I stumbled across a rather tight timing that worked here when trying things out - this probably isn't the intended solution!
40 - A nice puzzle to finish off the rank, though I almost didn't spot the steel area needed to turn the lemmings around.

Looking forward to next rank :thumbsup:

Glad you're enjoying it! :thumbsup: Given how the situation here in Germany suggests we're going to spend a lot more time at home again soon, I'll probably have more time to delve into Lemmings again, too. Your replays are on my list now - I still haven't finished watching kaywhyn's commentary of Lemmicks yet, though.

Quote from: Strato Incendus on November 28, 2021, 03:09:59 PM
Glad you're enjoying it! :thumbsup: Given how the situation here in Germany suggests we're going to spend a lot more time at home again soon, I'll probably have more time to delve into Lemmings again, too. Your replays are on my list now - I still haven't finished watching kaywhyn's commentary of Lemmicks yet, though.

Yes, I've noticed you stopped commenting after 5 video parts of the Lemmicks level solving commentary :P However, I do understand that you're busy and might had been into other video games for the past several months. After all, life isn't all about Lemmings despite everyone, or at least most, here being a fan of this iconic game from 30 years ago. So, not a problem at all, as they haven't gone anywhere, they'll be waiting right there indefinitely on my YT channel ;)

Sorry to be adding more to your Lemmings list to watch again soon, but just as a heads up I will likely be starting an LP of New Formats LWT in the coming weeks. I figured this pack of yours would be a great way to round off 2021, and what better way than to take a tour around the world with a fictional Lemmings band :laugh: I know that you will be looking forward to this very much, especially since my LP will be the very first for the New Formats version :thumbsup: I also figured that far more than enough time has passed since I completed the Old Formats version of LWT (pretty much more about a year since I finished it) and hence it would be a great time to take up LPing this. Also, more than enough time has passed since I've seen Colorful Arty's LP of it (a little over half a year), though I haven't watched the beginning up to the final part before his 2 year hiatus from LPing the pack. Instead, I've watched all the parts starting from when he finally came back to finish the LP. I'll likely do so after I finish my playthrough :P

Great to hear, kaywhyn! :thumbsup: I guess that means I should finish watching the Lemmicks LP quickly now ;) .

I actually haven't been playing video games that much the last few months - the only video game I've played excessively this year was NieR: Automata. And that was only during the first half of the year, and has already inspired several Lemmings levels in return (all for Lemmings, Drugs, & Rock 'n Roll, which is going to be closest in spirit to a successor to Lemmings World Tour; Lemmings Open Air was really more of a successor to Pit Lems in terms of level design, and Lemmings: Hall of Fame in turn will be a successor to Lemmings Open Air, just with L2 tilesets).

Instead, I've been trying to write up a fictional story about a generation ship - a premise I have been toying around with in my head for a couple of years, but so far, it had only been an interesting premise. It wasn't until I discovered Abbie Emmons's YouTube channel and her more "theme-driven" writing advice that the characters really started coming to life.

Perhaps I'll dedicate a level to this story in the space-themed pack "Lemmings Universe" (you might remember that vote I did on the theme of my next pack, once both Hall of Fame and Drugs & Rock 'n Roll have been completed). 8-)

I ended up taking a bit of a break from this but am back having finished off replays for the Diva & Professional rank.

Spoiler

Diva 9 - This is a sneaky one despite seeming relatively simple
Diva 14 - I think I found something a bit precise here as I was able to save a platformer and fencer.
Diva 21 - I enjoyed the earlier version of this level and this one was a nice solve too :thumbsup:
Diva 22 - This is a clever one again and fun to solve, using the stoner to complete the bridge was a nice touch.
Diva 35 - This is my favorite one of the rank - the solution to this is really well hidden in the plain sight. Great level.
Diva 39 - This was probably the hardest one of the rank for me, spotting leaving the pixel behind was something I didn't see for a while and could quite easily have missed for far longer

Rockstar 2 - Very tricky level. The solution requires working out what lemmings can be lost which makes this tough. Very nice level though.
Rockstar 6 - I'm not sure if what I did here is entirely intended but I used almost all of the skills so it hopefully isn't too far off.
Rockstar 7 - I really liked how the crowd is released at the end of this one
Rockstar 10 - I saved an extra 3 and had some leftover skills on this one so this is probably not intended
Rockstar 14 - This had me stuck for a while trying to find the way to save enough lemmings at the start, a lot of things I tried fell one or two lemmings short
Rockstar 19 - I liked the way the zombie crowd is used and redirected in this one
Rockstar 21 - I solved this with an extra digger leftover, but i really liked the solution I found here so I hope it is intended. For a level with such a limited skillset this is surprisingly hard and one of my favourites in the rank
Rockstar 27 - I really liked the solution to this one. I managed to save a stacker but I think this is just a minor variation on what the intended solution might be.
Rockstar 40 - Despite the seemingly generous number of builders the skills quickly ran out - a good one to finish the rank on.

Thanks for your replays again, Apijm! :thumbsup: As tends to be the case with such a large pack, people are playing through it faster than I can watch and comment on the solutions. I might just do a quick summary about the most noteworthy / memorable ones I find among your solutions. If I don't comment on a solution to an individual level, at this point you can usually just assume it's intended.

Legend rank completed :thumbsup: Some tough puzzles there to solve!

Spoiler

01 - Really liked how the various different groups of lemmings needed to work together to make the solution for this one
02 - My solution here is almost certainly a backroute as I didn't use many of the skills or the terrain much
03 - The puzzle of how to hold the crowds back while getting down was nice. I managed to have a spare platformer at the end for my solution so hopefully it is acceptable.
04 - This was a fun interaction with getting the basher to continue, if a bit precise.
05 - I managed to save a stacker and a digger here but my solution feels like a reasonable one. Working out how to keep the crowd in effeciently was something that gave me the most trouble on this one until I realised how I could use the climber.
06 - Nice puzzle, especially with using the RR to get past the zapper at the start, and then constructing backwards. I did manage to save an extra lemming here by not using the other bomber.
07 - Really tough one & probably one of the harder ones of the rank. I realized after a while that I needed to continue through the statue, but finding a line up that worked proved to be a bit fiddly and tough, and a few things that felt like they should work narrowly didn't by a pixel.
08 - Nice puzzle and a good bit of variety afer 7. The main difficulty for me here was having a lemming slip by the stacker (or having to juggle 2 climbers) which I eventually found a way to avoid.
09 - Another really tricky on that had me stuck for a while - great level.
10 - A bit of an easier one after some fairly difficult levels, but still some fun terrain to navigate keeping in mind to not waste skills too early.
11 - This requred a fair bit of frame-stepping at the start to sort out the top crowd by turning on two builders. Certainly a tough level!
12 - Nice use of continuing a basher through a bit of terrain
13 - This feels like a bit of a brute force solution and saves all lemmings so is likely not intended
14 - I had 5 bashers an a floater leftover on this one so likely not intended - though I did think seperating the worker this was nice.
15 - I liked the way the zombies needed to be dealt with on this one
16 - I found the earlier variant of this level a bit harder than this one, but that might just be because I'm now more familiar with the level. I did manage to save an extra lemming here but the solution here still uses the cloner on that middle area.
17 - My solution to this one was fairly straightforward but this does seem like an any-way level
18 - Another very tricky puzzle, especially spotting the miners cancelling eachother to allow enough height to bridge over the '<' shape which didn't seem to connect as easily with just a bomber.
19 - I really liked this one even if it isn't necesarily the hardest one of the rank, a very elegant puzzle.
20 - Probably somewhat of a backroute given the leftover skills. I really liked the level having two lemmings
21 - The basher continuing down the fencer tunnel was a fun solution!
22 - This one felt a bit more open ended, once I had sorted out how to handle the zombies the rest fell into place.
23 - Not sure if this is 100% intended or not as I had some leftover skills
24 - I enjoyed the earlier verison of this level and this one was great too. I managed to save some extra skills but my solution did feel like it was in the spirit of the level.
25 - The solution for this isn't quite as hidden as others in this rank but a nice puzzle nevertheless. Completed with a leftover builder and extra lemming saved.
26 - Another really tough one. I tried placing the stacker over the gap in the ropes for quite a while but was always just falling short until I realised I could use it to climb over. Very nice puzzle though.
27 - Surprisingly tricky as I was running out of constructive skills near the end on early attempts, and using more of the stoner skills early took me a while to spot.
28 - This feels like a harder version of 17, certainly needed to think a lot more carefully about skill placement despite it being more open ended.
29 - A nice almost one-of-everything. This solution reminds me a lot of hells-bells from earlier on, so was quicker to spot it this time around.
30 - The way updraft is used in the solution for this one is clever
31 - I thought initially this would be an easier open ended one but this proved to actually be a tough one to save enough constructive skills for!
32 - I'm quite fond of this basher trick & I have used it before so did spot that part fairly quickly, I did like how the stacker is used at the start too.
33 - An open ended one, my replay probably goes on a bit too long waiting for lemmings to teleport rather than assigning skills to speed them up.
34 - I'm not sure if almost-building over to the slime thing in the way I did is quite intended, but I did manage to save an extra lemming.
35 - A bit of breather level in difficulty and fairly straight forward, but a nice level still.
36 - This wasn't too tricky again, the main thing for me was assigning the gliders to the faling hatches so the timings worked out.
37 - Probably the hardest of the rank. This is a really clever level and I really liked the solution in the end. I think the only criticism I have here is quite a few things I tried failed by a pixel, I'm not really sure if anything immediately could fix that, though in terms of terrain changes.
38 - Dealing with the zombie hatches has quite a few options, though I think the way I ended up doing it is a bit of a backroute.
39 - Another tricky one, I did manage to save a builder but that feels intentional to reduce precision at the end. Nice level.
40 - A nice final level of the rank & I did manage a save-all solution here too

Congratulations on completing the main pack, Apjjm! :thumbsup: I'll check your replays later; right now I'd probably confuse your solutions with kaywhyn's easily if I watched them both in parallel.

Hi Strato,

I have finished the pack. My replays are attached. You already know, as well as some others, but I'll leave the link to the LP here too.

LWT New Formats LP: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbp2m4KlFpJvybDd6KW6DcKY8q6ZeMFfA (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbp2m4KlFpJvybDd6KW6DcKY8q6ZeMFfA) Glad to see Strato, Apjjm, and Swerdis enjoying it :)

---

Since I've already posted feedback for the pack for Old Formats, I'm just going to copy/paste all of it here :P No way am I spending half of the day writing feedback for all the same 320 levels again :laugh: In addition, I'll likely simply add on to the feedback only the ones that are different between Old Formats and New Formats.

Feedback on the Noisemaker Rank

Since this is yet again another first rank of tutorial levels, instead of feedback on every individual level (honestly, 40 is a lot in one rank, and I can't even begin to phantom how very long it will take me to write feedback on all 40 levels for each rank, especially the later ones) like I did with Paralems and Pit Lems, I'm just going to focus on a select few.

Being another first rank that's just tutorials, I'll be honest, and that is I was pretty bored with the rank, since I'm pretty much familiar with all of the tricks mentioned in the pre-text associated with each level The rank didn't feel as dull this time, perhaps because of all that time that lapsed from the last time I played any of your packs. Not to mention that I LPed the pack in real-time on camera, which definitely made it way more exciting for me, and you can probably tell that I was enjoying myself very much, even if I sometimes made a fool out of myself and was a dummy on a lot of the levels, which I will emphasize that those moments weren't just for shows, they're all genuine reactions, just like you said ;) However, because this rank is just "tutorial-like" levels teaching some tricks that will come back in later ranks and I'm already familiar with all of them, that probably means I probably could had skipped the Noisemaker rank entirely, but when it comes to playing packs I play all ranks anyway, so endure it I must. To be fair, this rank isn't the main meat and the real deal of the pack, since I believe the exciting stuff is in the Amateur rank and beyond. However, I believe I also gathered from the OP of this topic that the Amateur rank is similar to the Noisemaker with tutorial style levels, with the first few levels of the Amateur rank I have played so far being quite similar to the first few of Pit Lems in that they're being grouped by type of skills: constructive, destructive, horizontal movement, etc. up until a little over the halfway point of the rank. So, I think with this knowledge I will likely be bored even more until I'm past all of them in the Amateur rank.

Another thing about the Noisemaker levels is that they're also quite challenging. It's like you said, these aren't your very basic skill tutorial levels, there's also a real puzzle on top of introducing the skill mechanics rather than just their basic function. Even the first level already starts off a bit difficult, although I still think Noisemaker 1 is a bit easier than LOL 1 of Pit Lems. Heck, Basic 1 of Lemmicks is the easiest out of these first levels in the first rank. Now, I know that you said that nin10doadict thought Pit Lems got difficult too quickly and that you were essentially aiming for intermediate with LWT. I don't think that has been the case so far with the tutorial levels, but I'm only in the very early stages of the pack, so I'm likely speaking too soon. In particular, I think Noisemaker 4 - Going under is the first level that will likely stump many players, as it really requires you to think about how to get through the multiple obstacles with the extremely limited amount of destructive skills. The level certainly does a great job of enforcing the idea needed, though, it's just a bit harsh with the very limited skillset IMO.

Noisemaker 5 - Over the rainbow might also be another somewhat difficult level for the less experienced players.

Spoiler

I think here the biggest problem is that some will probably try building and then block at the end of the bridge, like I did a few times, only to find that you don't have enough walkers to save the blocker at the end of the bridge later, since you need 3. Instead, the solution involves blocking on even ground and letting a builder build into it to turn around and bridge the gap to the exit. Besides that, the other tricky thing is ensuring that no lemmings are nearby when blocking, as everyone needs to be saved.

I also consider Noisemaker 8 - Glide and joy to be another unusually difficult level, not just because of how to get the trick to turn around on steel with builders and a digger, which you explained in more detail in the most recent update from earlier this year, but also because

Spoiler

digging out the bridge that closed the gap with the steel blocks is annoyingly precise, as you have to dig right at the last moment in order for the glider to make it across the water pond.

Noisermaker 10 - Noel nouvelet is quite a nice somewhat challenging puzzle using only NL skills. I say the only tricky thing here is the placement of the stacker, especially when trying to make sure just the glider slips past and no other lemmings do.

Finally, not a difficult level per se, but I consider the trick needed in Noisemaker 33 - Mein kleiner gruener Kaktus to be an extremely obscure one for less experienced players. I have known it for quite a while, and hence the level is easy for someone like me, but

Spoiler

I think it's not very clear to more casual players that assigning a blocker to a digger that's digging at the very edge such that the center is not digging anything won't result in the lemming blocking but instead releases the digger. Of course, to us more experienced players this makes sense, since if there's nothing being dug at the center where the lemming's feet are, then when it's assigned a blocker it technically isn't standing on anything and hence that's why it's released immediately. To other players, this is quite a leap to deduce.

It's also a pretty nice looking level too, although the giant OWW arrows really stand out and make the cacti not look as nice. 

All other levels in the rank weren't as challenging as the ones mentioned above, although they're still challenging enough to require some thinking on how to solve. I really liked Noisemaker 21 - Rainbow in the dark, which is a really close repeat of Noisemaker 5, using the builder wall trick at the end, which is first taught 3 levels prior.

There are levels that I would like to point out where I didn't really use the trick you intended in your spoiler list. I think Noisemaker 14 - Digital World (I know what you mean in the spoiler list, but I certainly didn't use it, and I have skills leftover), Noisemaker 18 - Stop and stair (I simply brute forced it and so I have a basher leftover, easiest fix here is to increase the number of lemmings so I can't pull off what I did in my replay), Noisemaker 22 - Locked Away (I didn't assign any skills at the top of the walls to stop the climbers, and I don't think there's really any way to enforce this), and Noisemaker 30 - In the Army (I don't know what you mean in the spoiler) are the ones I didn't use the trick you intended. For the last one, unless that's exactly you mean,

Spoiler

I simply used builders to turn around at the end, mined, and then simply bashed under the entire level.

A lot of these levels look really nice, even in the ones that use just the original styles. I got to say the nicest looking level in this rank is Noisemaker 15 - Octopus's Garden, with Noisemaker 39 - Vegas Lights a close second. I absolutely love the former song, as I'm a huge Beatles fan. Written primarily and sung by none other than Ringo Starr too, the one who contributed the least but occasional vocals as compared to his 3 bandmates in their songs. Hidden traps here, but the real saving grace is that it's a very short level and plus the locations of the traps in the octopus are kind of easy to guess at, although the level can still be a bit annoying to pull off. I'm not sure if my very temporary digger pit on the clam is intended, as well as getting past the trigger on top of it, is intended, though.

For the latter, I don't know the song, but I do know Panic at the Disco. Ugh, the excessive repetitive stoning assignments to get past 4 trap trigger areas! :evil: Even after that, it can be a bit difficult to isolate a lemming to bridge the gap to the exit. Nevertheless, I do like how you included the Eiffel Tower replica, since it is there when you visit Las Vegas. Speaking of Vegas, the last time I went was way back in 2012, after I had just graduated from college. I should definitely make plans to come back and visit one of these days. Too bad I'm already in my 30s, and it's especially very difficult for me to take vacations nowadays.

Out of the 40 levels in this rank, I recognized 11 of them by title. Others I don't know the song, but I recognized the artist's name. It surprises me that you even know about singers like Katy Perry, Duran Duran, and Joan Jett. You either know them from listening to them a lot on the radio or you really did your research. Others like the Beatles and Wham not so much, since they're from around close to where you are.

One final thing regarding a level. For Noisemaker 38 - Rock, Paper, Scissors, the trigger area of the vine traps seems way off. Instead of being right on top of the vine, it's a little off to the side. Is this intended? I'm not sure if it will affect the level's solution either way.

Finally, a big issue with the pack is that it tends to take quite a while for the level preview to load up. The worst offenders in the Noisemaker ranks are the two artistic levels I just mentioned, Octopus's Garden and Vegas Lights. The latter takes the longest out of all the Noisemaker levels to load up.

Now that I'm on the Amateur rank, hopefully the very exciting stuff is to come. I was definitely very bored with the Noisemaker rank, and them being quite challenging kind of made it a turn-off even more, but then again I am a bit crankier today than I usually am due to finishing the second half and how I'm extremely sleep-deprived. Again, I'm sure the pack definitely gets better with its puzzles. Artistically, obviously many of those are to come, since most of the levels had to get the design right. If that's the case, then I definitely have something to look forward to as I proceed with the pack. I just hope that the pack does keep me engaged as I play more of it later.

Ok pack so far, but again I'm aware that I'm not even into the good stuff yet since I've only played the very boring Noisemaker rank so far.

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Feedback on the First 28 Tutorial-Like Levels of the Amateur Rank

Let me start off by saying that it was a huge relief to finally start hearing the other music tracks starting in this rank. I got annoyed with the boring ONML music rotation very quickly in the Noisemaker rank. Don't get me wrong, you did a good job of remixing the 6 ONML tracks, but it was very boring hearing the same 6 tunes throughout the 40 levels of the Noisemaker rank. Indeed, I found myself rocking out to some of your original Lemmings music track remixes in the Amateur rank :thumbsup: In particular, I love the music for Amateur 7, as well as the following level, Amateur 8 (Very nice How Much is That Doggie in the Window? remix! :thumbsup:), Amateur 9 (especially the beginning which sounds almost like something from Tchaikovsky's The Nutcracker Suite, specifically The Flower Waltz), and Amateur 13. Nice job with these! :thumbsup: The rest of the tracks I was either partial to or wasn't a fan of. I would probably love both The Can Can and She'll Be Coming Round the Mountain tracks if they weren't as loud.

After I finished the Amateur rank last night, I headed over to the LWT New Formats topic to read the posts on the Noisemaker and Amateur ranks. Apparently I echoed a lot of Icho's feedback for the Noisemaker rank here for Old Formats, so you're going to see me echoing a lot of Icho's feedback for the Amateur rank as well.

In contrast to the Noisemaker rank, the tutorial style levels in the Amateur rank were more enjoyable and weren't nearly as difficult, and the difficulty isn't all over the place. At least after the first 2 levels of Amateur, which I felt were difficult in their own way, although the former not as much as the latter. For Amateur 1 - It's a Long Way to the top, it is a bit difficult to see that 4 stackers is sufficient to get over the first wall. Even if it's difficult visually, I guess it's very easy to deduce that stackers must be used for that, based on the skillset, since 2 builders is obviously nowhere near enough to get over the first wall. Then again, it's always difficult to tell how many stackers are needed to get over any wall, especially since most of us are used to using builders to get over walls.

For Amateur 2 - Timber (It's going down!), the only difficult part is the leftmost entrance. It's not easy to figure out how to delay the lemmings long enough for a worker lemming to mine the tree obstacle before anyone turns back and drowns. The other two entrances are very easy to figure out. Then again, this is also the very first time I have played a level in your Autumn tileset, which means I need to get used to recognizing the objects but most importantly the trap, which blends in very well with the other leaves, although I correctly suspected the bottom one on the left since it really stand out, even if the top trap took me by complete surprise, since I have never played this tileset ever.

After the first two levels, then I say we had a long stretch of fairly easy levels. Amateur 3 - Walking on sunshine will likely look impossible at first glance for most, but then I looked at the number of lemmings in the level, and with two hatches, that means 5 out of each, hence the 5 swimmers. Also, since you later teach that the water breaks falls with Amateur 12 in the pre-text, I'm wondering if these levels should switch positions. The only problem here is that this would break the already neatly placed levels according to movement of skills for the first three levels (up, down, and horizontal), so unless your intention is for the player to figure out that water always breaks falls, I would say this can be a huge step up in difficulty for the less experienced players. Luckily, if the player manages to figure that out, the rest is easy.

Amateur 8 - Who let the dogs out? is quite a difficult level and I would even say is a huge step up in difficulty compared to the previous levels of the rank. It's not easy to figure out how to navigate the terrain and around the dog traps with the extremely restricted skillset. Truthfully, the missing disarmer was the very first thing I noticed in the level, so naturally I scanned the level to find the disarmer pickup. Surprisingly, I couldn't spot it myself, so at first I thought you were trolling and made an error for the level. I did suspect that it was the mound next to the last dog before the exit, but I wasn't certain. It should be obvious to you that I resisted turning on CPM, and I played the entire level without the aid of it. Indeed, the "boing" pickup sound took me a bit by surprise after I passed the mound I suspected where the pickup was. I then rewinded a bit and took another quick look, and I finally did see the disarmer icon in the mound. Quite well-hidden, if I do say so myself.

As for the level, I got to say that it definitely shouldn't be a surprise that indeed there are hidden traps in the dogs, particularly since the pre-text somewhat hints at it. It's also as you say, your animals are hungry for lemmings. I got to say, though, that you did a great job of depicting dog poop at the barrel, and when the trap went off, my reaction was, "Eww, the dog pooped on the lemming and killed it!" There is also some kind of trap that sucks lemmings upwards in the first and last dogs that I encountered in my solution when you get to its mouth. I got to ask, what kind of trap is it that's sucking the lemmings upwards? Especially since the lemming immediately gets sucked up once it steps on the trigger area. Obviously, it's to give the impression that the dog ate the lemming, so I thought that was fun to see. Above all, great looking level! ;)

I say Amateur 13 - Ayo Technology is a pretty difficult radiation level (Old Formats version). Added: This is the very first level in the pack that needed to be changed because of how the radiation object doesn't exist in New Formats, hence all the bomber pickups.

It's definitely not easy to work out how to manuever the lemmings with the radiation coundown to get them to explode in the places that will get the crowds from either side up to the exit. The save requirement might seem very lenient, but even with the cloners it's pretty tight. Nice looking level though, with the depiction of the atom and referencing lemmings being blown into atoms with the radiation.

Amateur 15 - Ring, ring! can also be difficult, but I say more tricky than difficult. The solution I came up with building into terrain to turn around at the end to bash the OWWs seems to be the more difficult alternative. I read your spoiler list on what you intended on this level after I had saved the rank, and indeed having looked at the level again, I say destructive skills going against the OWW is the much easier option here. Once again, nice looking level depicting a telephone with the number keys.

Amateur 16 - Slide it in can also be difficult as well, especially with figuring out how to get the floaters home since they take a little longer to open up their parachute compared to gliders. I might had overcomplicated the solution tremendously though. Indeed, I just tried it again and saw that there are much easier ways to solve it than the way I did. This was what gave me a lot of problems on Hasty 6 of Lemmicks, and I mentioned that was the hardest level of the rank.

I think Amateur 17 - Float is also another difficult one, especially with figuring out how to get past the flower trap and how to bridge the gap before anyone else arrives and falls into the bottomless pit. I didn't use the stoner, so I wonder what the purpose of it is. Probably means I also backrouted the level, but I'm not sure.

Amateur 18 - Tears in Heaven is yet another difficult level and I would also say is a huge step up in difficulty to the previous difficult ones I just mentioned. The right crowd is easy, but the left crowd is quite difficult. It took me quite a while to figure out how to get all of the left crowd to the miner tunnel on the right side.

Amateur 23 - Fields of gold is a difficult level in figuring out how to navigate the honeycomb and getting the right crowd up to where the left crowd can get up. My solution is probably quite fiddly and there are probably much easier ways.

Amateur 24 - Wonderwall Not necessarily difficult, just tricky, in regards to getting the basher/blocker trick to work at the very beginning, but I was already aware of this trick and so this level wasn't as hard. Definitely for less experienced players it will be a very hard level. The one thing I didn't know about was

Spoiler

a digger turning around when dug directly on top of a one-way field, but I guess this makes sense since this is akin to digging and releasing a blocker, who has the ability to turn a digger in the other direction when you block in the digger pit.

Amateur 26 - Like ice in the sunshine Nice slowfreeze (Old Formats version) puzzle that gave me a good struggle for about 10 minutes, so it can be difficult and is somewhat a big step up in difficulty, even with the very restricted skillset. Definitely getting the crowd down safely is hard, and also figuring out how to stop them from walking into the trap.

Added: Another level that changed due to slowfreeze not being present in New Formats, thus the reason why there are stoner pickups, but it's pretty much the same since they're at the same location where the former object is located in Old Formats.

Finally, Amateur 28 - Zombie is quite a difficult level to finish off the tutorial-like puzzles. Once again, compression for the win here and releasing the crowd at the right time to avoid infection. Before that, I kept trying to actually get rid of the zombie by making him drown, but I wasn't able to.

The other ones I didn't mention in the first 28 levels weren't as difficult and were enjoyable and more to my liking. In particular, I absolutely loved Amateur 5 - Sugar Baby Lem (easy level and nice looking level), Amateur 6 - Cliffs of Dover (nice puzzle and how there's two solutions, my solution spares all the climbers), Amateur 7 - Join me in death (I still enjoyed this one despite the stoner staircase and repeated bombing/stoning, at least it wasn't to the extreme and done to death like it was in Paralems), Amateur 9 - Greensleeves (nice, easy puzzle!), and Amateur 11 - Whole lotta Lems (very nice puzzle, although I initially tried to get all lemmings through the pillar for a few minutes until I realized I was going about it the wrong way and that the several climbers provided had a purpose, and the miner placement and timing can be a bit difficult).

My favorite level of the rank in the first batch of 28 levels was Amateur 19 - Holding out for a hero. Decent looking level and also a very nice, easy puzzle on top of it! :thumbsup:

I also really loved Amateur 25 - Radioactive. Very nice and easy radiation (Old Formats) puzzle! :thumbsup:

Added: Again, due to being a level featuring radiation in Old Formats, there is a bomber pickup in the New Formats version of the level instead.

Lastly, for Amateur 24 - Firework,

Spoiler

I immediately thought of the nuke being required just based on the level title, especially since it does indeed look like fireworks from all the lemmings being applied a bomber skill with the nuke. This is one of the few levels that I have played where the nuke being required for the solution didn't escape me. For some reason, that one level in Lemmicks where the nuke is needed completely went over my head. I think this is the third level that has Katy Perry as an artist, so you're apparently a fan of her, as am I.

Ok, that took longer and I wrote a lot more than I thought I would, but at least the boring tutorial-like levels are done and over with. Now finally onto the open-ended puzzles and the more exciting stuff. The remaining feedback will be on the final 12 levels of the Amateur rank, starting with Amateur 29.

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Feedback on the Last 12 Levels of the Amateur Rank, Starting with Amateur 29

The rest of the rank lived up to my expectations of very exciting and well-done puzzles, and so luckily you managed to get my engagement level back up, and so I will definitely be playing out the rest of the pack with joy, unless I start getting annoyed with future puzzles that have stumped me, but I highly doubt it, since so far it's been looking really good ;P It's going to take a while, since I still have 240 levels to go, but I'll get through the whole pack eventually. In the final set of 12 levels of the rank, the hardest level for me was certainly Amateur 37. I still loved the level and solution, though! ;)

Spoiler

Amateur 29 - Seven Nation Army Very easy level to start off the open-ended puzzles of the rank after the previous 28 tutorial-like levels. Somewhat nice looking level too despite the minimal design in the middle.

Amateur 30 - Georgia on my Mind Already difficult with the second puzzle level, but still not overly hard and quite a nice level. Definitely a nice departure from the standard block the crowd in and have a worker lemming forge the path by temporarily delaying/containing the crowd with a miner pit in both directions and bashing to the right before the lemmings get trapped in the windows. I didn't realize those flashing windows is just scenery. Also the flag pole being scenery and not solid. I'm not sure if it's the exact same in New Formats, but I definitely wished something was done to make the flag pole more clearly scenery and not solid. Great looking level too! :thumbsup:

Amateur 31 - The Great Indifference The 0 save requirement was what immediately caught my eye. Is that intentional? Upon loading the level I immediately exited. It's still a very easy level, so I might just go back and actually do the level for real later on. A save requirement of 1 was added in for the New Formats, but for everyone who might not be aware, Strato did not add that when he converted the pack, as the 0 save requirement for Old Formats was intentional on his part, and hence he wanted it to be the same on New Formats, but alas a forum user changed it so that you must actually play the level and get it solved, i.e, at least one lemming must reach the exit.

Amateur 32 - Ich und mein Holz Nice level with a great solution! :thumbsup: You, Simon, Icho, Nepster, or eric can translate the level title for me.

Amateur 33 - Eagle Somewhat difficult, but still easy. Also a very nice looking level! :thumbsup:

Amateur 34 - Levels Easy 10-of-everything level despite the lose 1 save requirement, although can't be wasteful with your skills, especially the builders. I like how you included a level from every rank of the original Lemmings and put them together to make this level: Fun 1, Tricky 1, Taxing 29, and Mayhem 12. It's just like traveling in time in the game here.

Amateur 35 - Black Polished Chrome This one was quite difficult for me, actually. I struggled with this for a good half hour, but finally managed to solve it. Definitely not easy to find an efficient path through all the obstacles with the extremely restricted skillset to reach the hidden (not hidden at all but in the context of the original Lemmings game it definitely would be hidden) exit inside the wall. For the exit, I kept not having a basher to access it. In the end, two bombers and a platformer leftover.

Amateur 36 - Walk this way Nice puzzle involving a temporary stacker to prevent the glider from exiting and then later circling around to bomb the top of it from the right side! Probably my favorite among the final 12 levels of the rank :thumbsup: The only difficult thing is platforming so that only the glider makes it across so that it can circle back while the rest of the crowd can still fall down and get to the exit coming from the left.

Amateur 37 - Shipping to Boston By far the hardest level of the rank but I still love the solution and level. Very nice puzzle with a bunch of tricks required! :thumbsup: Struggled for a good 40 minutes or so. The key here is realizing that it's possible to give the first lemming enough time to seal up the gap and losing only one lemming in the process by making the second lemming a bomber to contain the crowd. The level is still no cakewalk after that. Other tricks needed are bombing the second wall as the climber either starts hoisting or falls one pixel from the other direction, temporary 1 bridge for the next gap after that, getting up to the steel platform with a combination of a builder and a stack interrupted with a walker, and finally building to bridge the chain gap to turn around and circle back to the crowd to release them. The final builder can be used to get up on the blue square blocks platform. All of these required things make it a very difficult level.

Amateur 38 - The Shocker Nothing special here and way too easy. Nice breather after the previous brutally difficult level.

Amateur 39 - Japan Nice looking level that is somewhat difficult but still a really nice puzzle! I like how the radiation must be used to bomb the gray pillars but then you also have to figure out how to avoid the radiation traps later afterwards. A couple of skills leftover, but I'm guessing these are fine.

Amateur 40 - God gave Rock n' Roll to you Very nice level to finish off the rank. Somewhat difficult and definitely not trivial despite the 5-of-everything skillset of what you're given. At first, I was wondering where the exit was in the level. I spent a couple of minutes digging through the terrain, as well as the guitar picks at the top. I then experimented and tried going to the very last guitar and to my surprise the worker exited. To be fair, this is the very first level in the music tileset that I have ever played, and so I was completely unaware that the vertical standing black guitar is the exit. It should also be clear that I didn't use CPM at all. I simply wanted the challenge of finding the exit without the aid of it ;)

Also, for a while I tried to use the upper path of going on the piano keys for probably about a good 15-20 minutes before I then tried the lower route. I did try the lower route before spending time on the upper path, but I quickly abandoned it when I saw that you need at least two platformers to make it across the gap. Once I did come back to the bottom route, I quickly realized that's where the stacker can provide the few pixels of width to allow lemmings across the gap without using up another platformer, since three platformers are needed to get to the exit.

Most importantly, very nice looking level!:thumbsup:     

For the Amateur rank, I recognized 10 of the songs by title

Overall, the Amateur rank was a huge improvement compared to the Noisemaker rank. It was still somewhat boring, but nowhere near as much, and the difficulty doesn't jump all over the place like it did in the Noisemaker rank. The Amateur rank definitely lived up to its promise of superb looking levels and well-made puzzles after the first 28 tutorial-like style levels. Indeed, I praised almost all of the final 12 open-ended puzzle levels of the rank, so that's certainly saying something. So, it's thanks to those levels (and some of the ones in the first 28 to an extent) that managed to get me engaged and hyped up about the pack again. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing the rest of the pack and finishing up the whole thing! ;)

I think from here on out, I'm going to post with my replays and feedback when I get to the halfway point, ie, after 20 levels. As I said before, 40 levels is just way too much to write feedback on all at once. 20 levels at a time should be much more manageable in terms of how much time I waste writing my feedback. Indeed, that's exactly what I did with United, although I sent replays to Icho whenever I got truly stumped, not necessarily at the halfway point, although I did that too!

Onward to the Professional rank! :)

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Well, I'm halfway through the Professional rank, so I'm back again already with more replays and feedback. Here are my replays up through Professional 20, as well as feedback for Professional 1 through Professional 20. Well, I must say that I continue to be impressed by the high artistic quality of your levels and puzzles that were definitely promised during my playthrough of the Professional rank so far, after finally getting past the boring stuff from the Noisemaker rank and the little over the first half of the Amateur rank ;) I'm probably now going a little way too fast for your liking, especially since I have seem to pick up significant speed, so perhaps I should slow down my playing of LWT a bit so as not to torture you with so much work fixing up levels for LWT as well in addition to LOA.

Professional rank finished. Attached are my replays up through Professional 40, as well as my feedback for Professional 21 through Professional 40. The puzzles continue to be excellent, and more high praise incoming! :thumbsup:

Spoiler

Professional 1 - I wanna rock! Nice, challenging level to start off the rank! I like how you must dig low enough on the stoner steps in order to be able to fully build the bridges, although the stoner placements can be a bit precise. Skillset is quite tight, and the solution ends up using everything, so you cannot waste anything at all! Also, you must choose correctly for the gap at the beginning, or you're not going to have enough to solve the level.

Professional 2 - Carry on wayward Lem Nice and easy breather level after the previous challenging level. Somewhat a huge builder fest, although builders can be quite tight.

Professional 3 - Sex bomb Not a difficult level, since it was quite obvious to me what needs to be done, just very difficult to execute. I can only imagine how much harder this level would be with timed bombers, so I think this is one of the few to be thankful of untimed bombers. Not to mention that timed bombers won't even work for this level anyway, since the lemmings are too close to the edge of the wall where they start and hence won't be able to make a safe pit in the wall for lemmings to all down safely.

Professional 4 - Fencing Queen Another nice easy level with a great solution :thumbsup:

Professional 5 - Vienna Can be challenging due to the extremely limited destructive skills, but even the builders are somewhat in short supply so you need to be efficient with their use as well. It's still an easy level, though.

Professional 6 - Walk like an Egyptian Probably my second favorite level of the rank in the first half of the rank :thumbsup: Can be tricky to figure out how to get the lemmings down to the lowest floor before the exit, but it's still an easy level with a really awesome solution :)

Professional 7 - Holy Diver Way too easy and nothing too special here

Professional 8 - Blocking all over the world Ah, there's the level from the LOL rank of Pit Lems all fixed up for LWT. It's definitely harder now, especially since you have prevented me from solving it the same way I did the Pit Lems version. Still, the solution is nice when you can piece it together.

Professional 9 - Dig in a box Nice short and somewhat challenging level. They key here is making sure only one lemming is on the other side of the exit while the rest are on the other side. The RR plays a really important role here in getting all the crowd out in time before the digger finishes and causes some lemmings to splat. The first digger near the exit and builder are somewhat precise.

Professional 10 - Buildy Jean The tricks from Stop and stair return here, builder wall and building to seal off the basher tunnel so only one worker lemming goes ahead and forges the path for the crowd. Nice level!

Professional 11 - Making your mine up Nice level primarily involving miners. You probably intended the miner cancelling trick, but that trick is not required to solve this level, as I solved it without it.

Professional 12 - Block around the clock Too easy. I even got the talisman too even though I have not taken a look at the list beforehand. It's so not a gold talisman, it's way too easy for one.

Professional 13 - Tulpen aus Amsterdam I really like this level too, both the artistic quality and the solution :) The builder/platformer for both gaps are a bit precise, but luckily you only have to do the combo twice. Here, the flag pole was solid, so something really needs to be done about this in being able to differentiate whether it's solid or not. Although, if I'm not mistaken, only the white ones are non-solid, while any other color pole is?

Professional 14 - Waka-waka Nice 1-of-everything level involving mining into steel to turn the climber around since you have to save everyone here. Non-solid white flag pole, so it seems my guess is correct so far?

Professional 15 - Auld Lem Syne Too easy. Nice looking level, though ;)

Professional 16 - Pompeii You did pretty good depicting the resulting eruption of Mount Vesuvius and the destruction of Pompeii that resulted from it all those years ago. Unfortunately, I'm not a fan of the song by Bastille though. I found it annoying back when it played on the radio a lot. As for the level, pretty easy, with how to get into the exit that's buried by the lava being the only challenging thing of the level. The main critique I have is that the platformer/builder bricks are completely invisible against the purple background.

Professional 17 - Surfin' bird Whoa, that's a cool looking exit. Another easy level.

Professional 18 - Sur le pont d'Avignon If I'm not mistaken, the title is French for South of the Avignon port? I don't really know French, I took Spanish all 4 years of high school. Anyway, another really easy level, as well as a very nice looking level, especially with the lemmings swimming in the lake.

Professional 19 - Atte katte nuva Wow, I really like this level! :thumbsup: My favorite level of the rank so far. Not only does it look really cool with the snow falling in the background, I really love the solution! Very easy, and I like the releasing the blocker with the fencer trick from the other side which I recently learned in a United level in the Bonus rank.

Professional 20 - Rome Nice looking level that includes Italy's flag. Easy level. My solution seems to be a backroute? Not sure if you intended the use of the teleporter or if it's a complete red herring.

Professional 21 - The lion sleeps tonight Awimbaway awimbaway awimbaway awimbaway (I'm sure that's not correct at all, just what it sounds like to me, but the following is right) "In the jungle, the mighty jungle, the lion sleeps tonight." Haha I couldn't resist. Nice short and somewhat easy level, with the very high RR adding a bit to the challenge. I guess the cat trap is the closest that we can get to an actual lion in the game, although I think the tiger is closer to a cat than a lion is. I do have a bomber leftover, but I lost one to a cat trap, which is fine since we're allowed 2 losses anyway.

Professional 22 - Samba de Janeiro O.o nice level and solution! :thumbsup: Very nice design. The only tricky part is the right edge of the cross, where a combination of two platformers + a builder is used, and only that must be used. Otherwise, you're not going to have enough for the water gap, and you won't have anything to turn the swimmer around.

Professional 23 - Streets of London Another nice looking level using the city tileset. And of course the most appropriate "London Bridge is Falling Down" tune to boot, since it's all about London. Nice Big Ben design there. Not a very hard level, but it is a somewhat tricky 3-of-everything level, especially upon first glance it might not seem to be enough. Being economical and efficient is the name of the game for this level. If you are, you can still end up with a lot of skills leftover like I did here.

Professional 24 - Malle ist nur einmal im Jahr Very nice level and solution here too! :thumbsup: Somewhat easy despite the high RR. This level definitely seems like something Icho would make, only maybe not quite this very short, but how a crowd will be heading into danger, that part reminds me of his style of level making. Maybe it'll be easy for me to guess which levels you tried imitating his style in the Groupie rank. I have a glider and swimmer leftover.

Professional 25 - A Spacelem came travelling Too easy. Nice looking lemming garden gnomes, two of which are blockers and one which seems to be playing dead.

Professional 26 - Budapest This one was quite difficult, actually. The skillset is extremely tight, and all of them are used in my solution. Especially for the right half, the skill placements all seemed very precise. It's also difficult to get the bomber hole in the middle column just right so that the lemmings can travel to the exit, as well as still be surmountable.

Professional 27 - Moskau, Moskau Very nice decorative level! :thumbsup: This one was also difficult, although maybe not as difficult as the previous one. I think only the cloning the miner part is very precise, as well as the builder for the very last gap before the exit.

Professional 28 - The Irish Rover Whoa, what a cool looking ship from a distance, and you made the lower decks visible where the lemmings start. Not difficult, but it is very tricky to figure out the best way to navigate through the many obstacles, so the 5-of-everything skillset is quite tight. What did you do so that none of the many sideway barrels don't spawn lemmings? I initially thought they were all going to have lemmings get released, truthfully. Also, not sure why the lemmings are preassigned swimmers, especially since they can't be saved once they do fall in the water.

Professional 29 - Rock you like a hurricane Not difficult as well, just tricky in figuring out how to be efficient with your platformers/builders, and I ended up using all of both! This time, the exit has been rotated sideways, although I believe you mentioned that they're all upright in New Formats?

Professional 30 - Smells like Lem spirit Excellent puzzle! The only difficult part is figuring out how to mine the bottom crowd up, as well as how to bash the upper part of the OWW to get to the exit.

Professional 31 - Bay of Pigs Nothing too special about this zombie level, especially since my solution is probably not intended, as I don't use a glider to get over there to platform to the crowd. Instead, I simply platformed across in the starting area, since it seems that anyone on top of the stack can't get infected by the zombies even when they're climbers but the overhang prevents them from climbing more than 1 pixel.

Professional 32 - Bratislava Lover Very nice looking level and great puzzle! This level does a very good job of teaching the player that instead of using 3 builders to get up to the exit, which would be what most players would do and is perfectly fine if there were more builders, but since we are limited and won't have enough left for the other gaps, one must bash and interrupt it midstroke with a walker so that you can get up to the exit. Excellent! :thumbsup:

Professional 33 - Aquarius Another great looking level, as well as a very nice puzzle. It is somewhat tricky, but not terribly difficult to figure out at all. It's obviously clear that only the far left exit is accessible once all buttons have been pushed. The platformers may seem plentiful, but you must be efficient in their use.

Professional 34 - Bang-a-boomerang Another good looking level and a great puzzle on top of it. It is somewhat tricky as well to figure out, but it's not too terribly difficult either. The most difficult part is timing the release of the second climber to block and turn the miner. I like how the miner needs to circle back and release the crowd with a digger and a bomber. It does result in a very long wait, especially since the builders haven't been used yet and the crowd will have to walk all that way, but thank goodness for the time skip (just spam spacebar).

Professional 35 - Iron Maidan Not sure if that's the intended spelling or if that's the correct song title, but I know it as "maiden." Ok looking level, but the puzzle is really great! Nice use of digger cancelling, as well as platforming to the columns instead of platforming near the top surface of the exit area and having to fence repeatedly until you can get high enough to get to the exit. Luckily, the crowd has a long way before reaching the worker lemming in progress.

Professional 36 - Down in Mexico Really nice looking level and also a great puzzle too! A bit tricky to figure out, especially since I initially tried digging and then stopping it with a bomber once it was close enough to the level of the platformer. After a few tries, it was then clear that this wouldn't work out at all since a climber in the pit needs to be released before the bomber explodes but also the worker and climber would be too close to each other that the first one wouldn't have enough time to make the miner tunnel deep enough to turn the other one around to mine down to the crowd. The key here instead is making a bomber hole at the edge of the starting area so that the platformers can close the gap and no one will fall off the bottom.

Professional 37 - Sun of Jamaica Very nice looking level and a very nice solution that comes together quite nicely! :thumbsup: Easy level, with the only tricky thing being how to isolate a worker lemming, as well as realizing that you must bash high enough on the second palm tree on the ground in order to be able to access the exit.

Professional 38 - Ovo je Balkan Somewhat hard level with a difficult to spot solution. Still, I love the solution! Good looking level too. I think that digging and bashing under all the mines is a really good red herring. Of course, if you make the connection with the fact that there's 5 mines and that you can lose up to 5 lemmings here, then it should be clear that it's ok to lose a lemming to each one if you remember they're 1-time traps only.

Professional 39 - Taj-a, Taj-a, Taj-a, Taj Me Have you seen the Rocky Horror Picture Show? I saw it sometime ago at a local movie theater, where the actors walk around the stage and engage with the audience. Way too easy, and nice attempt at recreating the Taj Maha of India.

Professional 40 - Queen of Chinatown Good looking level, but most importantly easy and very nice puzzle to finish off the rank! :thumbsup: I really love the solution here. A lot easier than the Amateur rank finisher.

Added: The level needed some terrain/steel at the top in order to make the builder turn around, as the ceiling is deadly in New Formats, while in Old Formats that wasn't needed because the ceiling is solid. Even then, the puzzle/solution is the same     

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Halfway through the Diva rank, so time for more replays and feedback. Replays up to Diva 20. Wow, excellent levels as usual, but the Diva levels are considerably more difficult than the ones in the previous Professional rank. The hardest one by far before the halfway point of the Diva rank was definitely Diva 19. That one stumped me real good for about an hour.

Diva rank completed and thus halfway (160/320 levels solved) through with the pack already. Here are my replays up through Diva 40 and feedback. In contrast to the first half, I felt the second half of the Diva rank was overall much easier.

Spoiler

Diva 1 - Eternal flame Easy and excellent level to start off the rank

Diva 2 - Munich First splat entrance level of the pack, I believe? Pretty easy as well. Truthfully, I thought those black square blocks were steel, but luckily they aren't.

Diva 3 - Hot stuff Somewhat difficult in that figuring out the best way through the obstacles and not running out of builders/platformers isn't easy at all. Still, nice level.

Diva 4 - Lempire State of Mind Obviously a reference to the Empire State Building in New York. I visited it back in 2003 when I went on a Washington D.C trip with my middle school. I think the highest floor we went to that time was the 101st floor out of 116. Artistically, very nicely designed level! This one was another difficult one as well, especially since figuring out how to get up this very tall building is hard. Timing the first builder to have a blocker turn it is a bit difficult. Still, great level.

Diva 5 - All the single Lemmings Excellent and easy level compared to the last two. I absolutely love the solution here! :thumbsup:

Diva 6 - Diggas in Paris There's the level from Paralems. I used a different solution in that I simply built over the Eiffel Tower. So much for digging through the tower, which is the solution I used in Paralems.

Diva 7 - Born this way Not a difficult level per se, but rather difficult to execute. Concept-wise, it's clear what needs to happen: Swimmers use the bottom left exit, climbers use the top exit, and floater/gliders use the bottom right exit. Nice level, though.

Diva 8 - Dragonstea din tei Ahaha, I remember when I first found out about this song from my sister back when I was either in high school or in the early years of college. "Numa numa yea, numa numa numa yea" (not sure about the word that's different from the "numas"). Good level, although I might had backrouted this level, since I don't use the blocker or collect one of the basher pickups.

Diva 9 - I won't hold you back Excellent level and solution! :thumbsup: I initially tried the bottom left path, but realized it won't work after a few minutes, so that's a pretty good red herring.

Diva 10 - Umbrella Another excellent level with a great solution! :thumbsup: I'm not sure if it's possible to solve without raising the RR like I did at the very beginning.

Diva 11 - Don't cry for me, Argentina Easy level. Nothing too special here. Ok looking level.

Diva 12 - Walking in Lemphis Another level from Paralems I believe? I used pretty much the exact same solution here as I did for the Paralems version.

Diva 13 - Brick house Somewhat easy. Nothing too special here either other than it's aptly named.

Diva 14 - Foot of the mountain Nice somewhat easy level. Not very difficult, but at the same time the soluton isn't trivial either. I like how you need to send three lemmings to forge the path.

Diva 15 - If you're going to San Francisco Always a very nice city to visit, although certainly not the place I would permanently settle in since it's too cold for my liking. I'm also very spoiled by the warm, sunny weather in SoCal, having lived in the southern region of California my entire life. This one was difficult, although certainly the hardest part is figuring out the best way to get up and onto the outer parts of the Golden Gate Bridge. Probably would had been better with the pillar tileset since it's pretty close to the "golden" color.

Diva 16 - Puff, the Magic Dragon I really liked this one! :thumbsup: Very nice solution, especially with the bombing the wall with a glider and having a glider get into the hole to make a splatform for the crowd. Also, nice hidden zapper trap from the bubble tileset in the dragon itself, which definitely took me by complete surprise. Again, I haven't been playing these levels with CPM activated at all. Really, I'm just taking the hidden elements of surprise as they come. At first, I thought the basher skill shadow being cut short was due to no more terrain to bash through when in actuality it was due to the zapper trap.

Diva 17 - Believe in life after Lemmings "Do you believe in life after love? I can feel something inside me say, I really don't think you're strong enough, no." Couldn't resist here either haha. I also really liked this level! :thumbsup: Nice use of two tricks here, sealing a basher tunnel and sending a climber while a basher tunnel is in progress in order to bash the OWW.

Diva 18 - Royals This should be a very bad backroute, considering I don't use the two pickup skills at all.

Diva 19 - Barcelona I don't remember if Barcelona was one of the cities of Spain that I visited when I went on my high school's Europe trip back in 2007. I think we just stayed around the Madrid area. As I already mentioned, this level stumped me real good for an hour, and this is by far the hardest level of the Diva rank so far. There might be some in the second half, but that remains to be seen. I ultimately brute forced it and stopped a digger from the left entrance with a miner from the second entrance from the left and was able to lose two lemmings, one of which a bomber was used, and so I have a bomber leftover.

Added: This was the only level of the pack that needed more than one video in the LP to get solved. Here, I was a dummy and didn't think to start mining instead of climb and bomb the wall on the far left. Solution I found for New Formats is likely different from the solution I described in the paragraph above, from what it sounds like. 

Diva 20 - Only time Much easier than the previous level. Nice use of preplaced radiation zombies to free the top entrances.

Added: Ah, I remembered correctly the radiation and zombies being on Old Formats, but overall it seems the solution and concept is very different on the New Formats version. It feels somewhat easier than the Old Formats version.

Diva 21 - Let it go Excellent level! I really liked this one and the solution :thumbsup: I did have some trouble, but that's only because I kept placing the platformers in the wrong places. The animating falling snow is great too. Elsa's made an eternal winter in the level.

Diva 22 - Wrecking ball Nice and easy level as well. Not sure what the stoner is for. It's very easy to save everyone.

Diva 23 - YerushaLem shel zahav Ok level, although I probably made it harder than I needed to. In my solution, there is a tiny piece of land that the glider lands on in the digger pit so that it's able to glide into the exit. Without it, it will die to the bottomless pit.

Diva 24 - Rolling in the deep Ok, this was pretty frustrating, not because of the hidden traps (already know that from the first version played earlier in the pack) but how to get past all the traps while only losing 1 lemming. Probably the hardest level in the second half of the rank. I initially tried compression, but I would always end up losing 1 too many, and so I ended up using a different solution which involves fiddling with the RR so that I could bomb the second lemming on the stack early enough so that the stacker lemming can progress further without being hindered by the stack. The rest of it was avoiding the triggers by going underneath or building over them before the rest of the crowd can catch up. According to Arty's LP, he was able to get compression to work. Turns out that I had the stacker in the wrong place. Nevertheless, both versions of the octopus level are quite difficult.

Diva 25 - Touch my body My solution seems a bit fiddly and I might had backrouted it? Lots of skills leftover. It's practically the same as Arty's, except I take advantage of the fact that you can stone the blocker and bash the terrain it makes.

Diva 26 - Simply the best I'm not sure what the point of this level is ??? Way too easy.

Diva 27 - It must have been Lems Way too easy as well. Nice level, though!

Diva 28 - Call me Yet another really easy level. Not sure what blocker pickup is for. I didn't even use it!

Diva 29 - Cotton-Eye Joe Somewhat easy. The only thing I'm quite surprised by here is how the cloned glider was able to not get stuck in the updraft if assigned at the right time.

Diva 30 - Something in the water I've heard this reference before, but I forget what it's referring to. A fish or shark maybe? Of course, I'm sure it refers to what the pickup skills resembles. Anyway, too easy.

Diva 31 - Burn Somewhat difficult in that you can't waste any of your platformers. Also have to cancel a miner with another. Being able to assign a platformer to a miner will probably escape many players, although I've known this fact for quite a while, and hence the level wasn't as hard.

Diva 32 - Weisse Rosen aus Athen More tricky than difficult in that it's not easy to figure out how to get both crowds up to the exit. The right entrance is easy, the left isn't that much harder, but it will need help from the right entrance.

Diva 33 - Titanium Nice easy level! Definitely deviates in that normally one bashes/mines OWWs, but here it is necessary to build over the OWW at the top, as you don't have enough bashers for all the OWWs.

Diva 34 - Out of L.A Ok level in that it's a bit tricky to figure out. Builders may be plentiful, but don't be fooled, as pretty much almost or all of them will be used. Here, I had 1 leftover. I don't suppose the level isn't any specific location in LA but rather just how there's a lot of skyscrapers? I attended college in LA for 4 years.

Diva 35 - Total eclipse of the builders Nice repeat level that's definitely different from the original. Not that much harder, it's still easy, and I like the solution.

Diva 36 - Horehronie Way too easy.

Diva 37 - Ebony and ivory "Live together in perfect harmony." Great song. Once again, builders may seem plentiful, but all of them were used in my solution. Skillset is also quite tight, but overall it's not a difficult level, just tricky to figure out the best route to take.

Diva 38 - Set fire to the rain O.o I like the falling rain in the level, and it definitely makes the level aptly named. Very nice puzzle! I absolutely loved the solution here. The left entrance can be quite tricky to figure out, but I didn't find it that bad. Plus the skillset lends itself extremely well so that one can quickly deduce what needs to be used to temporarily contain them while one goes on ahead.

Diva 39 - My Lems will go on Very nice level, both the design and puzzle! :thumbsup: 1-of-everything to boot too. Nice recreation of the Titanic and the infamous iceberg that sank her. Clearly the title is a nod to the movie Titanic, which features the title track "My heart will go on." I love Celine Dion. Great and powerful voice. I surprisingly haven't seen the movie! As for the level, the only difficult part is with the leftmost hatch in how to isolate a worker lemming while ensuring no one else slips past the stack. This was probably my favorite level of the entire rank.

Diva 40 - So Wat? (I'm still a rockstar) Somewhat easy to finish off the rank, although can be a bit tricky to figure out. It's a nice looking level, though.

Needless to say, the difficulty has ramped up considerably from the Professional rank. The levels started getting really difficult as I got closer to the halfway point, and there were certainly some tough ones in the first 10 as well, although not as much. Well, let's see how the second half of the Diva rank goes.

Onto the Rockstar rank! ;)

Sorry for posting again, but apparently a limit to forum post lengths does exist! :XD: So, this post will continue where the previous post got cut off. Also, for my entire replay collection for New Formats, see the previous post :)

Rockstar Rank Feedback

Rockstar rank half completed. Here are my replays up through Rockstar 20 and my feedback. Lots of really good levels in this batch despite the difficulty being somewhat high or about the same as the Diva rank! :thumbsup:

Rockstar rank completed and thus 200/320 levels in the pack solved! :) Replays up through Rockstar 40 are attached, and more feedback. As usual, I really loved a lot of these levels and puzzles! Definitely feeling the difficulty rising faster than I thought it would and hence my progress through the pack slowing down but in a good way, since the levels are still quite manageable and doable, and the pack continues to be quite enjoyable and not too frustrating ;)

Spoiler

Rockstar 1 - Heavy Metal Universe Good somewhat easy puzzle to start off the rank.

Rockstar 2 - School's out This was a pretty good level that is a bit tricky to figure out. Initially I kept trying to block at the very end on the lower level, as well as bomb a faller and digger the top wall so that it's not splat height, but it doesn't work too well, especially since if any turn back they'll fall into the quicksand.

Rockstar 3 - C'mon Lemming, light my fire! This was also a very nice, short and easy puzzle. I like how one climber needs to be sent up to bash, another needs to turn around in the basher tunnel to mine the crowd out, and a third climber needs to bash the miner tunnel made so as to avoid the fire coal box.

Rockstar 4 - Staying alive Ah, I love this song by the Bee Gees. I really liked this level! :thumbsup: Though it may seem counter-intuitive, you want to delay the glider assignment so that a cloned glider can get onto one of the honeycomb tiles to make a splatform for the crowd that comes out of the hatch fast. This still gives the worker lemming enough time to platform the water gap before any drown. This level took me about 7-10 minutes to figure out.

Rockstar 5 - Ace of Spades This was tricky, but it's still a nice level. I like how you depicted each of the four different card suits here. The hardest part is containing the crowd at the very beginning. It involves quickly bashing first, then digging down, then bashing with the next lemming that comes just as it falls into the digger pit so that the following lemming can still turn around and get trapped in the digger pit. Once you are successful with that, the rest of the level is easy.

Rockstar 6 - Crazy train More tricky than difficult to figure out, but still a nice looking level and puzzle hopping from train section to train section.

Rockstar 7 - Otherside I really liked this one too! Probably my favorite of the first half of the Rockstar rank.

Rockstar 8 - Highway to Hell Way too easy. I also liked this one. 1-of-everything, but the only skill I didn't use was the climber.

Rockstar 9 - Leaving on a jet plane Not a difficult level, just tricky due to the travel suitcases. A bit builder heavy, but it's fine.

Rockstar 10 - Another brick in the wall I think this is a really bad backroute. So many skills leftover.

Rockstar 11 - Banditi di Praga This one was a bit difficult, with the middle with red brick structure the most difficult part and also ensuring that you have enough destructive skills for the end. Really nice looking level, though!

Rockstar 12 - I want out Excellent level! I really loved the solution here. Not too difficult but at the same time not trivial either. This is probably my second favorite of the first half of the rank.

Rockstar 13 - Under bergets rot Not too different from the original version in terms of the skills provided, but the major difference is that here you cannot delay the crowd and keep them in the starting area. Still a good level.

Rockstar 14 - Boulevard of Broken Lems Whee, splat hatch level. Still very easy, though.

Rockstar 15 - Viva Colonia! Ah, there's the level that Icho found that was broken due to the glider opening its glider too late in order to use the updraft. In the New Formats version, I was able to solve it without using the glider, meaning the level was still solvable even with the broken glider physics. Still, since it ruins the intended solution, the best thing to do was to fix the updraft placement so that the lemming can use it to glide upwards. As for the level, it can be a bit tricky, but it's not too terribly difficult.

Added: Not only did the changed glider physics affect the glider not being able to use the updraft, the ceiling is also deadly in New Formats, hence some terrain was added on the far left to prevent the climber from going off the top of the level and die.

Rockstar 16 - Sweet Lem o' mine O.o this was an excellent level with a cool solution that managed to stump me for a long time, about half an hour or so. At first, I thought the right entrance being preassigned swimmers was pointless, but it turns out that it's necessary in the solution. Nice! ;) I also kept incorrectly assigning the climber to the first lemming in the right hatch, but after a while I figured out that it needs to be a glider instead. This definitely seems like a level Icho would make, so you certainly got a bit of him in your level making :P

Rockstar 17 - The final countdown On first glance, I was like this is too easy, but after a few seconds playing the level I noticed there was a time limit, which then quickly changed my mind. Even with the very tight timer, it's still very easy. Very nice level and solution. I really liked this one. If you're not aware, I love time limits in this game, so it was very satisfying to beat the clock here. It's appropriate considering the level title anyway.

Rockstar 18 - In the shadows I was a bit annoyed with the repeated stoning to avoid the stomper traps, but luckily only 3 each are needed for both. Other than that, I really liked this level as well. I think this is the very first level where I see that a swimmer will climb a wall instead of dive underneath if assigned one, so I got to keep that in mind. I did realize that a climber needs to scale the wall, but for a few moments I wasn't sure if it could do it, since I assumed (incorrectly) that it would dive underneath instead of climb. Guess climbing takes precedence?

Added: Due to changed swimmer physics, as I understand it, a stoner was added in order to help a climber climb the wall, but as a result the timing seems much tighter, fencing through and bombing before the other worker lemming turns back to the right

Rockstar 19 - Run to the hills This was a really good zombie puzzle! Another level with a timer, but definitely justified to ensure that the player doesn't wait around for all the zombies to die to the dragon trap before solving. This was actually tricky and a bit difficult, especially since it's not easy to figure out how to avoid zombie infection, whether they're coming towards the crowd or avoiding them around the dragon trap area. Just when I thought I had the level all figured out, the crowd gets infected by a zombie as they're coming down the staircase towards the dragon trap. I probably could had saved a lot more time instead of finish with a few seconds to spare. I might had even made the solution more difficult than necessary.

Rockstar 20 - Any way you want it More tricky than difficult, but this was a really good level. The timing is quite tight for all three sections, especially for the left crowd with the bashing and the miner for the right-most entrance, but the key is delaying the second lemming in each section with a builder to allow the first lemming in each section enough time to break through or to contain the crowd in the case of the digger pit at the top.

Rockstar 21 - Dziesma par Lemmi The end part was difficult, ensuring that no one was facing right when the digger broke through I'm not sure if my solution is intended even though I use all skills.

Rockstar 22 - Summer of '69 Good song. Easy level. Nothing too special here. Only tricky part is making sure no one lands on the land above the entrance, so here I made sure to delay the last builder assignment to make sure it doesn't happen. I have a miner leftover as a result.

Rockstar 23 - Machine head This seems to be all on timing, building to the top and getting to the button so that the worker on the other side of the wall can exit before he slips past the locked exit. Other than that, not too difficult, but not trivial either.

Rockstar 24 - I'd do anything for Lems Easy level as well.

Rockstar 25 - Through the fire and flames Probably a bit easier than the original version, although there's certainly execution difficulty with the fencer through the builder at the end. I had to adjust the builder position several times before the fence finally went through the walls and builder. What might escape less experienced players is using stackers to allow a basher to continue instead of stopping.

Rockstar 26 - Sweet Home Alabama Not difficult, just tricky to figure out the best way to get through the numerous obstacles. Especially the skillset will seem to be very tight due to the huge size of the level, but it's not that tight, as I still have several skills leftover. Also, I didn't realize the spoon and folk are steel.

Rockstar 27 - Clocks Excellent level that managed to stump me for a good 20 minutes. I kept puzzling about how a climber would be released after the fencer tunnel is sealed with a stacker if the basher is used for the yellow poles near the exit. Then I suddenly remembered the basher in a fencer tunnel trick from United. Even with that, it was very frustrating getting the stacker placements correct so that the basher will continue through the yellow poles as well. I had to try adjusting so many times before it finally worked. Oh, good song as well. I pretty much love Coldplay.

Rockstar 28 - Berlin Definitely a difficult challenge without a climber to free the lemming who digs down to get the bottom button. I still loved this level a lot, especially since it was very satisfying figuring out how to get everyone through to the exit. I did have to adjust the builder placements a couple of times before the miner would go through all of it and the OWW columns.

Rockstar 29 - Hollywood Hills Good and really nice looking easy level. I thought it was going to be difficult due to the stackers, but no, it wasn't that bad at all. It might look like you can also bomb from the other end of the basher tunnel, but then the level's probably unsolvable due to needing two bombers on the left end to get up.

Rockstar 30 - Losing my religion I initially tried a lot of fiddly pointless stuff for a few minutes when I realized that the level's much easier than I think it is. Ok level, nothing too special here.

Rockstar 31 - Cold Turkey Pretty easy once you get past the tricky stuff at the very start, where you must bomb twice in order to make a safe landing for the crowd. Nice bomber trick in the pit to get the cloned basher to stop. Nicely designed level! :thumbsup:

Rockstar 32 - Engel Way too easy and again another great looking level. I love the bombing a lemming in the digger pit to release both the digger and the crowd. It's very obvious that the stoner is needed as stepping stone to get into the exit, because you need to remember that direct drop is not possible anymore in NL, as well as only floaters and gliders can exit without any terrain beneath the exit.

Added: I didn't use a stoner to help them get into the exit, so looks like I was incorrect about that being impossible :XD:

Rockstar 33 - St. Elmo's Fire This one managed to stump me for about 15 minutes, but that's only because I was a dummy. In particular, I kept trying to see if I could save a constructive skill in the starting area because I think I kept being one short. Turns out to be somewhat easy. It's all about getting high enough to avoid the OWWs and being able to use only 1 destructive skill, except for the first one which in my solution required 3.

Rockstar 34 - Let me put my Lems into you Ah, there's that level from the Demented rank of Paralems. This version seemed much harder, and indeed the level was difficult for me. Since a blocker is used to turn the lemmings around to get to the top, that means you can't use the stoner. Also, I simply used a stacker right up against a couple pixels of high ground in order to turn the lemming around to make a landing bridge for the crowd to land on in order to get to the exit.

Rockstar 35 - South of Heaven Way too easy! I've already seen this trick from a level in United, where the intended route was building to the outside and then using the diggers/builders to make a builder wall. Icho's version is much harder, since all builders are used and it's not at all clear how many builders are needed to achieve the builder wall and to get to the exit.

Rockstar 36 - Streets of Philadelphia I say more tricky than difficult in figuring out the best way to get through the obstacles and where to platform so that the lemmings can still get up. Still, nice level.

Rockstar 37 - I'm your Venus O.o, very nicely designed level depicting the planet Venus. Speaking of which, perhaps you can try the entire solar system of the other 7 planets. Anyway, way too easy.

Rockstar 38 - Stonehenge In contrast, this was a really hard level and stumped me for at least a good half hour. Probably the hardest level in the entire Rockstar rank. It was thanks to CPM that I saw those gaps in the leaves and used it to my advantage to get up the level thanks to a stoner/stacker combo. For a long time, I kept using a stoner underneath the entrance and the left Stonehenge to get over the top and I was going to use the miners to get them out, but the biggest problem is that the gap before the exit is exactly one full bridge length, and by that time I was already out of builders and wouldn't have anything to turn the lemming around. You definitely did a nice job recreating the real-life Stonehenge with this level, but I was definitely frustrated by being a builder short and not being able to turn the worker around to mine the crowd out. In the end, I might had cheesed and backrouted the level, considering I have several skills leftover. Also, there appears to be no opening animation for the hatch.

Rockstar 39 - Holy Mountains Way too easy and much easier than the previous level. Very nice looking level! :thumbsup:

Added: Here for New Formats I did a lot of very precise digger/bomber placements, so that's probably me making the level far harder and more frustrating on my end than I originally did for New Formats ???

Rockstar 40 - Dream On Definitely a harder repeat, but not by much. Very nice solution, though! :thumbsup: I say more interesting than the original version, considering that you cannot mine the left crowd out with a miner due to stoners missing this time, so instead you need to get someone from the left entrance to set up the bridges in order to get past the OWW. In other words, instead of a worker from the right entrance doing all the worker, it's now reversed, where the left entrance does all the work.   

Onto the Legend rank!

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Legend Rank Feedback

20 more levels completed, and thus the Legend rank is half solved. Replays up through Legend 20 attached, and of course my feedback. Starting to get very difficult here, but still a bunch of great levels in this batch! ;)

All rightie, 20 more levels solved and thus the entire Legend rank is completed. My replays up through Legend 40 are attached, and as usual my feedback.

Spoiler

Legend 1 - Bolemian Rhapsody Starting off the rank is a pretty difficult level. The solution is somewhat difficult to figure out, and the execution is somewhat difficult as well. Still, really nice level, and I love the song Bohemian Rhapsody. I haven't seen the movie of the same title that focuses on Freddie Mercury, though, which of course post-dates the pack.

Legend 2 - Purple Rain O.o that's nice animation of the falling titular "purple rain" in the background. Too bad I'm disgusted by the color purple. More of those hanging from the ceiling things which I thought were traps, but luckily there's only 1 and the trigger is visible. Very easy level compared toe the previous one.

Legend 3 - We can be heroes Very easy level despite the very high RR. Not sure if using the ceiling to turn around is intended, though.

Added: Terrain/steel needed to be added so that the builder will turn around, whereas in Old Formats it's not needed since the ceiling is solid there

Legend 4 - Take me home, country roads Ok, this level is just pure evil execution wise. :evil: I figured out the solution very quickly and hence it's a very easy level, but a glance at the skillset and my immediate reaction was, "You got to be kidding me. Crossing a miner AND a basher and they still both continue." I'm definitely aware that it's possible from reading your topic some time ago on levels you got stuck on due to not knowing if a certain trick was possible, such as certain skills crossing one another and whether both continue, one cancels out but not the other, or both cancel out. Very fiddly here, especially since it's very easy to cancel the miner than the other way around, let alone both continue without cancelling. Of course, if one isn't aware of this being possible, the player may rage quit or think the level is impossible.

Legend 5 - Hallelujah This one was also a bit difficult to figure out, but it wasn't too bad. One thing that completely caught me off guard by is the Moon being a solid object in this level and hence builders will hit their head.

Legend 6 - Lems in the sky with diamonds I love this Beatles song! Very easy level. I wonder if the updrafts being complete red herrings are intended, as the glider cannot glide onto the next updraft after using the previous one. In any case, my solution doesn't use the updrafts and the level's solvable without them.

Legend 7 - Lemmingrad Obviously a reference to the country Leningrad. This is a really good level, but it's extremely annoying execution wise since there's a lot of pixel precision assignments. I came up with mining through two sets of builders pretty quickly, but I was immediately disappointed to find out that the builder staircase below the updraft falls only slightly a bit short in height to allow the miner to continue. I figured it had to be part of the solution, since the skillset doesn't allow for anything else. After struggling with it for a while, I then realized the purpose of the bomber/stoner to allow another climber to build at the appropriate height to allow the miner to continue through both sets of builder staircases. Very nicely designed level, and I especially love the lemming statue where the updrafts are.

Legend 8 - Master of Puppets This one was a difficult level to figure out, especially the end part of how to get to the button buried in the wall and then later both crowds up to the exit. Even the middle with the toys/toy traps was difficult to determine the best way to get through. In the end, I have a bunch of climbers leftover.

Legend 9 - Eye of the Tiger Easier than the previous level, just difficult timing wise if compression is supposed to be used to minimize losses to the cat traps. In particular, getting the glider close to the worker lemming after digging through the branch was tricky to achieve. At least a walker is provided in case the non-glider falls in the wrong direction after the digger gets through.

Legend 10 - Wind of change Too easy. Nice looking level, but nothing too special here.

Legend 11 - Living on a prayer Not much more difficult than the original version. Plus, I might had cheesed and backrouted the level, since I have so many skills leftover.

Legend 12 - We will rock you Good song by Queen. Very easy level. Nice trick of using a platformer to allow the basher to bash through both sets of green pillars.

Legend 13 - Nothing else matters I might had severely backrouted this level. Tricky but not a difficult level. Just need to get a lemming to go to the left so that he can platform to the right, and also get another lemming to turn around after the up arrows on the thin floor to platform to the left so that by the time the crowd arrives none will fall through before they're done.

Legend 14 - Can't get no satisfaction? I really liked this level! Very nice solution :thumbsup:

Legend 15 - Waterloo Somewhat easy level despite the zombie horde coming for the regular lemmings. The only tricky part is getting rid of the zombies, but once you successfully get rid of them, it's a really easy level.

Legend 16 - Bridge over troubled water Not too different from the original version other than no miner this time to trap the crowd while a lemming goes on ahead to forge the path and bridge the water gaps. Still an easy level.

Legend 17 - Y. Lem. C. A "It's fun to stay at the Y.M.C.A" Love this song a lot. Way too easy, and other than a nicely designed level with the "M" being in the shape of a lemming, nothing too special.

Legend 18 - Comfortably numb This one is quite difficult. The hardest part is getting the lemmings up to the exit area, especially since you only have platformers to work with to close gaps, the main drawback being that the skill does not add height. To make it easier to get up, you have to block a miner midstroke and release it with another lemming close by without destroying the miner staircase. The platformers may seem plentiful, but I ended up using all of them in my solution. Also, this is the very first time I have seen the apple worm trap. Really nicely designed level. Looking at it sure makes me hungry :crylaugh:

Legend 19 - Imagine Not a difficult level to execute, just tricky timing wise. Still, nice level and solution, especially with getting a climber to turn around near the end of the miner tunnel to bash out the lowest group ;)

Legend 20 - Don't stop believin' O.o this is a really good and easy level! :thumbsup: Very nice solution of using the lemming from the left entrance to dig away the floor to allow the lemming from the right to get out via swimmer and climber. I also love this song of Journey's a lot. Even the train mentioned in the song is here in the level. Nice!

Legend 21 - Kashmir Nice level featuring a variation of the basher/tunnel trick, where instead of bashing right at the fencer tunnel, must bash a tunnel to get to the fencer tunnel and use it to get to the OWWs. Once again, saw the solution quickly, just annoying to pull it off.

Legend 22 - Blowing in the wind This one was easy, although I'm not sure if my solution is intended since I avoided using the radiation. Still, nice level involving how to eliminate the zombies guarding the top exit, as well as the zombies that can climb. I got rid of them by making a digger pit deep enough for them to splat.

Added: Ok, I totally didn't remember this one having radiation, but even then according to my feedback I didn't use it on Old Formats ;P

Legend 23 - Wish you were here Another very easy level. It appears that putting the slowfreeze out of the way completely was deliberate and intended.

Added: Another level that I didn't realize had a culled object, but even then sounds like it was intentional that it was out of the way on Old Formats

Legend 24 - Let my Lems open the door Ok, I definitely backrouted this level, since I don't even disarm the trap. There's enough resources to avoid the trigger from both sides. Here, I used a builder from the left and then a stacker from the other side. Nevertheless, this repeat seems somewhat easier, although I have a feeling that they're both difficult in their own right had I not been able to backroute this one.

Legend 25 - I will survive Way too easy. Here, I used the left crowd to come to the right entrance's aid. Also, not sure if my solution is intended or if it's open-ended.

Legend 26 - Time to say goodbye This one was quite difficult. In particular, the beginning is the hardest part, and the solution is very difficult to spot. It took me a long time to come up with this solution, especially platforming over the tiny gap in the rope instead of using a stacker to get over it. Nice use of miner cancelling for the exit area.

Legend 27 - Thunderstruck Ugh, I knew there were hidden traps, but I didn't make that connection even when I saw that the glider skill shadow was cut short. Then, zap and took me by surprise. Then again, the zapper traps are quite appropriate, since I understand that the dark grey clouds are supposed to be thunderclouds and hence the lemmings get zapped by lightning. Definitely a nice touch to the level! Also, the zappers being hidden is perfectly fine, since I believe in real-life you can't even see the lightning until it flashes. Anyway, despite the hidden traps, this was a very easy level, but I'm not sure if I also backrouted this level by taking the ceiling or if that route is intended. Also, by taking this route those gliders at the very beginning were unnecessary, and so I could had saved a couple more. Guess I was just being dumb.

Legend 28 - Just a little bit... Not difficult, just tricky in figuring out how to optimize your resources. Despite there being a lot of bashers/diggers/builders, they surprisingly run out fast.

Legend 29 - Africa This was a really good level! :thumbsup: The solution is quite ingenious. Nice job. Nice looking level too ;)

Legend 30 - Knocking on Heaven's door Also a really good level with an extremely great solution, although this was a bit difficult to figure out. The tricks of sending out another climber while the second builder was in progress, as well as bashing into a stack and building so that the climbers can't climb out and die, were clever! :thumbsup: Since the solution relies on the ceiling, I'm thinking about how you managed to make this level work in New Formats, since the ceiling is deadly there. I'm guessing you simply covered the ceiling up with terrain.

Added: Yup, looks like I was correct with adding in terrain/steel to help a builder turn around :laugh:

Legend 31 - Ganglem Style Ah yes, the huge hit song that made Psy famous several years ago. I'm guessing the music video continues to receive a lot of views today. This one was quite difficult. I figured out building in a digger pit to contain the top crowd and using the upside down stoner to save the bottom entrance from dying to the bottomless pit quickly. The rest after that weren't as obvious. The main difficulty lies in optimizing your builders to get up to the exit after using fencers and stoners to turn around.

Legend 32 - A whiter shade of pale Nice short and easy level. The only difficult part is the very precise placement of the stacker so that only one lemming gets trapped in between the stacks after cloning it, which is then assigned a climber to get the crowd up to the exit through the thin ceiling.

Legend 33 - Housing of the Rising Sun Nice repeat of the original, where the entrance and exit swap positions. Almost like a Reverse Lemmings pack for the level. The repeat gives the appearance of being easier than the original, but don't be fooled, for resources here are still tight considering the huge level size. Here, I avoided using the teleporters, although I suspect that it's still possible to use the one inside the house to get to the top part of the level, and so I could had made my life much easier. Perhaps all that's needed was a digger pit so that all of them can still teleport despite overflow. My solution uses all the builders.

Legend 34 - Purple Haze Nice puzzle and somewhat easy level here! :thumbsup: It can be a bit tricky to isolate two lemmings on the left side after platforming the bomber hole in the starting area, but even if you only get one lemming trapped, a climber is provided in case that happens. At first, I wondered if the exit area is splat height, how to get the lemmings down safely. I quickly figured it out by bombing the lemming when it gets on top of the terrain so that there's a tiny hole in the platformer bridge to allow another worker to fall a bit lower on the terrain to platform to the right and therefore makes the fall safe.

Legend 35 - Scarborough Fair I really like this 1-of-everything puzzle! Very easy, although I found out that the stoner isn't necessary in order for the lemmings to exit. That's the first solution I found, but the replay I attached in the zip file does use the stoner.

Legend 36 - The Phantom of the Opera I have seen both the movie and the Broadway show when I was in Vegas back in 2007 with my high school's choir tour. Nice, easy level as well. The only difficult part is turning a lemming around to bash through the flag so that no one else gets past the platformer bridge. Using a short basher tunnel did the trick. I also probably could had saved a few extra lemmings had I used the extra platformer I had leftover for the middle gap at the bottom.

Legend 37 - Breaking the law Yup, I do believe you have succeeded in making your hardest level ever, although that might not be true anymore considering I still have LOA to look at. Clearly the hardest level of the rank. This level managed to stump me for probably a good hour or so. I initially tried a lot of other stuff before coming up with an extremely fiddly solution that takes advantage of the fact that miners can still continue despite making a very tiny hole from which lemmings in the other direction can fall in. That one was extremely difficult to get right timing wise so that only the miner and possibly only one other lemming is heading to the left, which I wasted a builder in turning the non-miner around. Also, in this solution I wasted the stacker on the left unnecessarily in the platform below the one the top entrance falls on. I'm guessing you intended for a digger to continue by digging through the top platform with the help of the stacker, as well as a basher to hit all 3 brick walls in the middle. I definitely tried several times to try and make that work, but I couldn't, especially since I would waste too many builders to get the setup right, if it's even possible.

Legend 38 - Thriller Iconic song by Michael Jackson. Of course there's zombies in this level, since they were in the music video. I'm not sure if it's supposed to be this easy with the solution I came up with in my replay. Just bashed the ceiling to sacrifice one lemming to get the zombies away from the exit. After they all got trapped at the bottom, short digger-basher staircase, then one final builder to get the lemmings home New Formats solution is very different, where I got rid of the zombies to the deadly sides and then simply built over the basher tunnel, as well as isolate a worker and then releasing the crowd later.

Legend 39 - I will always love Lemmings This one was difficult to figure out. For a while, I kept thinking I needed to beat the crowd before they arrived to the worker lemming in the bottom left so that I'm able to block and turn the builder to get to the exit. Then, I noticed that the wall on top of the bridge is high enough so that the lemmings can't get past without being a climber or fencing/building. That's when I realized that I simply overcomplicated the solution in my head and the level is easier than I think it is. Still, the level's difficult to figure out due to the very tight skillset. If timing the climbers to block at the end of the builder staircase to turn the builder around to build to the exit, you can simply stop the miner going to the right with a builder. However, you can simply avoid the timing completely of releasing a climber to block by using the miner cancelling trick, therefore avoiding the need to use a builder to stop the miner. Also, the only entrance in immediate danger is the top right, so that can be a difficult to figure out, but once you're successful in not losing any lemmings there, the rest of the level can be done as usual according to the replay or a slight alternative in the bottom left.

Legend 40 - The Time of my Life I thought this one was going to be difficult, but this was surprisingly easy for me for the final level of the rank. This one is probably my favorite of the rank :thumbsup: Really nicely designed level to boot. I love the fencing through a builder to get past the final two walls with the right-most entrance.

With 6 ranks completed, you now have confirmation from me that none of the 240 levels I have solved broke and that they're all still solvable (from Old Formats post).

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I know I said a few weeks ago that I was going to wait until you released an update for the Encore and Groupie ranks, but going by what you mentioned in the New Formats topic for LWT of there being no backrotues except the level Twilems, which you might possibly change, I went ahead and completed the Encore rank. My replays up through Encore 40 are attached.

Yup, they were all too easy, considering they're just levels taken from Lemmicks, Paralems, and Pit Lems, all of which I have played, the latter two I completed very recently, while Lemmicks was several months ago. Even with 40 levels in the rank, it took me about an hour and a half to solve the entire rank. Also, I solved all of them from scratch again, rather than waste my time and hunt down a working replay for the level, since my replays are saved in the format of rank and level number, not by level title. The Lemmicks levels were obvious, while others I couldn't remember if the level came from Paralems or Pit Lems. Some of them I knew which pack it came from, but not all. Seems like for those levels that have repeats, that only the originals were picked for the rank, not the harder repeat. I guess it's coincidence that the original happened to be a song title while the repeat version isn't. For the Lemmicks levels, despite the solutions being new due to the gimmick they originally relied on absent, they were still very easy, possibly way easier now than in said pack they originated from.

Regarding any potential fixes for the Encore rank, I haven't seen Icho's replay for Twilems, so I don't know if you might change the level based on my replay for it as well. The only other concerning level in the rank, at least from what it looks like to me, would be Encore 17 - Lem to the slaughter. I'm quite certain that is a severe backroute, and I don't think I solved it this way when I first played the level in the pack it comes from, which I believe is Lemmicks? I'm sure it involves getting the swimmer hatch to rescue the other hatch rather than the way I severely shortcutted and cheesed the level here.

With the Encore rank completed, that just leaves the final Groupie rank to do.

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Groupie Rank Feedback

Halfway through the Groupie rank, so you know what that means: More replays and feedback! Here are all my replays up through Groupie 20. Also, 300 levels officially solved. Wow! :lem-mindblown:

In contrast to the Encore rank, which I breezed through in just 1.5 hours, it has been much slower going in the Groupie rank. The difficulty's definitely picked up again. Not necessarily a bad thing with me. Still a lot of good levels I have played so far in this batch. I'm looking forward to the levels in the second half and seeing how many more designs of others I can recognize.

To be honest, I got way more of other authors' level designs than I thought I would, and so I'm actually having a lot of fun guessing whose level it's designed after. I seriously thought I wouldn't get many right, especially since it's been a long time since I played many of the packs by authors other than Icho and namida and, of course, you. Then again, it's only been about a year since I played those packs by other authors, so I guess it make sense that I'm able to recognize some of the designs despite having not seen any or remember any of their levels by design for quite a long time. By my count, I got about 11/12 of them out of the 20 I have played. That's not too bad, actually! :P

And, the Groupie rank is done and I thus have solved all of the LWT pack for Old Formats! :thumbsup: Icho may be the first to finish the New Formats version of LWT, but I'm officially the first to have all of LWT Old Formats solved. So, here is my entire replay collection for LWT Old Formats, all 320 replays. IMO, the second half of Groupie wasn't that much harder, but the final level of the pack was definitely the hardest, although certainly not the hardest level I have ever played. Not by a longshot. I also was far less successful with guessing the designer styles for the second half of Groupie.

All rightie, onto the feedback for Groupie 21-40.

Added: Regarding the designer guesses, best to watch my LP, as well as the solutions, since I'm thinking a lot of them will be different from what I described in the spoiler ;P

Spoiler

Groupie 1 - When the cat's away Ok level to start off the rank. I immediately thought that this must be nin10doadict's level due to the cat trap. I still need to familiarize myself with the Food tileset, since I wasn't aware that both the ketchup and mustard are traps. I think so far I'm familiar with the apple worm trap, and to an extent the blender trap.

Groupie 2 - That's a hard level that is! Even though I have yet to play any of Flopsy's packs, just by the tileset itself I immediately knew it was Flopsy's level. I didn't think this level was hard at all, but due to the 99 RR and managing the crowd this would be a hard for Flopsy level if I'm not mistaken. It was easy for me since I'm already well aware of the glider-stoner trick in such a way that the ohno animation is skipped completely but the stoner still connects with the ground.

Groupie 3 - Waking up the neighbours Not very hard, but at the same time not trivial at all. I did not recognize this as Proxima's design. Not to mention I didn't recognize the tileset either, so that's one part of it, but also because his TM Challenge pack is the only pack of his I have played.  It's the only pack of his that he has ever released so far I think? Even then, that's not a really good indication of his style. Plus, I believe it was a collab with mobius. I have not played any contest levels by him. Good to know that this is Proxima's tileset.

Groupie 4 - Praise be to God! I totally failed to recognize this as Colorful Arty's level. I kept thinking it was Gigalem's, but I think what made me realize that it has to be Arty's is due to the basher and digger crossing in the solution. But yes, I can definitely see how it can be Arty's style of designing, especially since he's extremely good with very artistic levels. Easy level, the only hard part is making the basher and digger cross successfully. Luckily, the setup is somewhat easy. You yourself used this trick in one of the main ranks, except it was with a basher and a miner going in the same direction.

Groupie 5 - No true Scotslem Thanks to how I recently played Lemmings Migration, I immediately realized this level must be Nessy's, since I noticed he used the mine tileset a lot in the pack. This is still a huge backroute, considering I don't even collect the builder pickups! I'm not sure how you missed this very obvious one when fixing the level up. Wonder if Icho came up with the same backroute or if he solved it the intended way.

Groupie 6 - Stacks and stones The only reason I guessed Raymanni was due to the tileset itself, and yes I did play Raylems, but it was a long time ago. This was a really great level, although it was extremely annoying hearing the crackling sound all the time when the lemmings kept stepping over the piece of snow terrain that breaks away anytime they kept walking by it. I definitely could had prevented that by placing the first stoner better.

Groupie 7 - (K) itty Compression Again, I immediately knew that this was nin10doadict's level due to the cat traps. Nice and easy level, and as the title suggests compression is the way to go.

Groupie 8 - Icho chambers Obviously Icho's level, although it appears that this is half correct, as I failed to realize it's also in the style of Proxima. Now this was a hard level for me. It's definitely all about resource conservation. The hardest part for me was the bottom left, especially building up to the teleporter area after mining down to the entrance. There were a couple of times that I thought I had the level solved, but after a few time skips I realized that I had lost more lemmings than what I still needed to save. Turns out that the lemmings who walk out to the left in the teleporter that leads straight to the water drown because I hadn't prevented that from happening by building to sealing off the gap.

Groupie 9 - Wrong This was another stumping point for me, but that's because I kept thinking I had to build, then dig before the lemming takes a step, then build to turn him around. As it turns out, there aren't enough skills to do it with the blocker that got released, as well as with the lemming that releases the blocker. Then I made the connection with the climbers provided and realized that I was being a dummy and that one needs to destroy the end of the builder bridge going to the left so to allow both to climb and get to the other side so they can get to the exit. Nice level, though!

Groupie 10 - Read my lips Obviously Flopsy's due to the appearance of the letters making up SEB. Unless this is supposed to be an open-ended level, this is a backroute? I didn't collect the the 4 pickup skills on the right side at the top. At the same time, it's not a hard level, but once again it's not trivial either. In particular, resources are much tighter than they appear to be, especially the builders even though there's plenty of them.

Groupie 11 - Killed by death I didn't know this was Sqron's level until I noticed the SQ in the pre-text. I have played the snack pack, so I have played his levels before. It's been a long time, though. That reminds me I need to post my replays and feedback for that pack, as well as for Raylems. The hardest part is definitely making sure enough get past the lizard trap, because it triggers way too fast. It's also the reason why Perky 20 from Casualemmings (Super mecha gators) is giving me so many problems. Yes, I'm still stuck there. It's amazing even at a 99 RR all lemmings up until the 4th one in a row die to the trap. So, the only way to get a lemming past it sooner is to clump up the second one extremely tight with the first one so that they're almost behind one another, which I achieved via a walker skill. The rest was making sure the crowd was in a perfectly straight line so that enough will get past the trap.

Groupie 12 - Tin Limmings on this livel Here, I seriously thought this was Gigalem's level due to how he has a lot of misspellings in the pre-texts and level titles. Also due to the tileset I thought it was his. Other than Lemmings Plus Alpha and Lemmings Plus 1, I haven't played any of namida's other packs, so I definitely won't recognize any of his designs in your Groupie rank. Nice level here with a great solution! ;)

Groupie 13 - You know you make me wanna shout ("shout" gets cut off in the level title) I'm sure my solution is a backroute. The intended solution is probably way more complicated than that.

Groupie 14 - Scot-free I had a feeling that this was also Nessy's design, and indeed your spoiler tag confirms it. I kind of recognized it due to the bridging a gap from both sides. However, the one trick that I didn't use is building over a digger pit so that lemmings are walking in only one direction. I might had been able to save the builder bridging the gap from the left with better timing, though.

Groupie 15 - Take a Byte One of the levels you showcased for the rank in the OP, and the one I immediately recognized as Wafflem's. I have also played through his Lemmingbytes pack. I didn't collect all the pickups, although I think this is more about figuring out how to get to the ones you need in order to solve the level. Obviously a miner needs to be collected. I say this level was a bit difficult, especially navigating through the waffle at the end. Another difficult part is getting past the apple worm trap at the very start, but the trap is slow, so it's not too hard to figure out.

Groupie 16 - All for love Even with an infinite amount of fencers, this level's not easy. I also happen to be really bad with stackers and how to use them to get up levels and releasing the crowd due to how it generally holds them back after the 7th/8th brick is laid down. It wasn't until after a time that I realized that not everyone needs to get be able to get up due to the seemingly generous save requirement. Also after a few attempts I realized that I can get the lemmings bunched up by assigning fencers right on top of one another. The funny thing was that I had realized this while I was CC'ing (candy crushing) because I remember that fencers will continue in a fencer tunnel even though they're not removing any terrain due to the upward slope a fencer tunnel makes.

Groupie 17 - I am E.T. I seriously thought this was Dodochacalo's style since he a similar level in his Dovelems pack. Oops :-[ I honestly don't remember any similar level in Sublems. It's been that long since I first played the pack, but I played it on Superlemmini. Here, I thought there was a mistake in the level, because I knew to make the digger-basher staircase at the end, but after running out of bashers the wall was still too high for lemmings to step up. Then, I realized that it needs to be done immediately after the climbers makes it to the top and that I don't need to spend a basher up there and could simply use a builder to turn around after digging low enough at the edge. It does make for very precise skill assignments, though. Good thing for framestepping here.

Groupie 18 - Le vent nous portera I immediately knew that this was Pieuw's design just from the French level title. That reminds me. Have you shown Pieuw this level yet? If not, right now should be good since he has finally returned after being gone for so long. I didn't use the trick from that Brick level in Pimolems for my solution, although it still uses all skills, so this should still be acceptable. Instead, I simply used a builder to seal off the bahser tunnel, which is pretty much a variation of the trick you alluded to that is used in the Pimolems level.

Groupie 19 - All you zombies Ok, I also thought this was Gigalem's, since he seems to also like zombies and I recently solved his entire zombie pack again. I totally forgot that you like zombies and slowfreeze. Oops. :-[ I don't mind either of them, although I find zombies slightly more annoying than slowfreeze. Maybe Gigalem likes radiation, slowfreeze I'm not so sure. Anyway, my solution is probably a very glaring backroute. I don't think the solution is supposed to be this simple.

Groupie 20 - Bon appetit! Looking at all those foods in the preview screen sure makes me hungry :crylaugh: Really nice design here. I totally failed to realize there's multiple authors' design in this level. I only thought of Wafflem due to the waffle. But yes, you're right, I do recognize Arty's cake. I didn't recognize Pieuw's soda on the side, though, even though it should be recognizable as one. This level can be difficult, but it's not too hard. It's all about getting through the level with efficient skill usage.

Groupie 21 - Kiwi knights in white satin Very nice level and puzzle! :thumbsup: I really like this one. Not hard, but not easy either. I had a feeling this was zanzindorf's tileset.

Groupie 22 - We are yung Obviously this is yung's design. I have also played his first and only pack, where I agree with you there are too many walkers provided for releasing the blockers in his pack. No real challenge at all. Similarly, this level is way too easy with the abundance of platformers and builders. I ended up getting over the OWW through the top.

Groupie 23 - The Earth Song I incorrectly thought this was a Nepster design, but now that you mentioned it's a bulletride design, yes I do see the Walk in the Park level design here. I don't recall the other level of his that you also put in here. I need to dig up that pack again. It's been a while since I solved all of Lemmings Stampede. Another great level. I'm not sure if the miner cancelling trick is required, although I can't thinking of any other solution that wouldn't require it.

Groupie 24 - Dove is in the air Ok, I definitely would not had guessed Dodochacalo here, although I also incorrectly guessed him in an earlier level in this rank. I'm sure I backrouted this level, considering that I have plenty of skills leftover, the only trick I make use of is a digger cancelling another digger, and I simply use the first few climbers as delays to give the builder enough time to bridge the gap to the exit.

Groupie 25 - Part of ze Reunion I definitely knew this is Icho's, since yes he's known for his Reunion pack. Not only that, the City tileset 100% points to Icho. Somewhat difficult, but it's not too hard. Nice level as well. I definitely don't like how it's difficult to see stuff in this tileset though. Skill shadows definitely came in handy to see if the structure on the far right would stop the miner in my solution.

Groupie 26 - Clam-a-Lem-a Ding Dong I definitely knew from the level title that this must be Clam's. That reminds me, I still need to play clemmings. Perhaps I can LP that one after the ones I have planned. He appears to have also vanished from the forums, so I haven't gotten to know him at all. Ok level, also a bit difficult, but not too hard. The fiddliest part of my solution is the drop before the exit at the very end.

Groupie 27 - Deceit and destruction I also knew this is Deceit's from the level title. I have played and beaten all of Deceit's Lemmings, but it was a long time ago and on Lemmix. The final Mayhem level was also one of the last levels I managed to solve after a while. I couldn't beat it at first, but I eventually was able to figure it out on my own. Difficult only due to the 2 builders, but it was still easy for me. Digger cancelling a digger for the win again ;)

Groupie 28 - Hiroshima Now it's time for Gigalem. Here I thought this was yours, though, since I remember you doing a Japan level earlier in the pack. Should had realized it from the tileset that this level is Gigalem's style, although to be fair I haven't played his Millas' packs yet. This was a pretty cool and great radiation level, I thought. Solution isn't that hard at all despite the radiation. I don't mind radiation/slowfreeze, though. The only hard part of the level is the end where the zombies are. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the radiation at the end is placed in such a way that the lemmings will never explode before reaching the exit? I think the only way for that to happen is if the lemmings have far to drop down, giving the timer more of a chance to actually expire.

Groupie 29 - Every Geoff you take Obviously Geoff's style from the title, and I recently finished my second playthrough of his Geofflems pack. Very nice level here too! :thumbsup: I especially loved the building to turn around trick and digging through the staircase to drop to the exit level near the end with the worker lemming.

Groupie 30 - Joga I definitely would not had guessed mobius at all. It's been way too long since I completed Mobilems. I first solved all of the pack on Lemmini, so perhaps I should revisit the pack for NL. Easy level.

Groupie 31 - Ya ochen rad Title definitely escapes me, and I certainly would not had guessed Gigalem. I really like this puzzle/level! Definitely requires some thought to solve. It's a bit difficult, but not too hard. Very nice solution. I had a feeling there were hidden masher traps, and indeed there are.

Groupie 32 - Fernando I knew this was Fernandes' style from the title. I have also played his master's degree pack from earlier this year. Starts off easy but definitely got hard as you progressed in the pack. Pretty easy level here. Nothing too special.

Groupie 33 - We don't need another hero I definitely would not had guessed Deceit here. I thought it was either a namida or a Nessy level. Both are wrong :crylaugh: This level stumped me for about 10 minutes. In particular, the builder gap is such that the worker lemming will never turn around, so the challenge was figuring out how to get the crowd out before doing so. Still a really nice 1-of-everything level. Not sure if bashing against the OWW to turn around is intended, though I can't think of any other solution that doesn't require it.

Groupie 34 - I see fire Definitely not in a million years I would had guessed kieranmiller. I have not played anything by him at all. As for the level, this was a bit difficult, especially the beginning, but level's not overly hard. The rest of the level after the beginning is easy.

Groupie 35 - Fly me to the moon I would not had guessed Arty here either. I believe it was thanks to your Pit Lems pack that I learned the Moon object is actually solid. I always thought it was background. Just from the level title itself it's very obvious where the exit is. No real challenge at all here. Very easy level. Nice looking level too.

Groupie 36 - What does the fox say? I definitely didn't have Gronkling in mind when predicting whose style this is. I thought it was a Gigalem one or possibly someone else (don't remember who). Other than his Lemmini minipacks, I haven't played anything by Gronkling. He hasn't released any level pack yet, I believe? I wonder what's the status on his Lemmings Evolution pack now that he has returned from a very long absence. I'm very positive my solution is a backroute. I'm sure it's not supposed to be that easy :P This was even one of the levels you changed too. Looks like you have to fix it up some more.

Groupie 37 - Johnny B. Goode The B in the title totally escaped me and didn't point me to bsmith. I have played his small pack about a month or two ago, though it was my second playthrough (my first playthrough of the pack was several months ago earlier this year). You're absolutely right about him remaking several original Lemmings levels, as I also noted that in my feedback to his pack. Very nice no builder level/solution! :thumbsup: This one was easy for me. Even after figuring out the solution, the other thing that also needs to be figured out is how to stop the climber from splatting after mining the crowd out.

Groupie 38 - A Mazu Grace Obviously the design is the author of Mazulems. Mazulems was pretty much the first full custom pack I have ever played, though I believe this was back when I was a high schooler and on Dos. My first custom pack on other engines was Dovelems on Lemmini several years later. I really like the solution here! :thumbsup: I thought it was quite clever sending two climber lemmings to bridge the gaps from the other side before releasing the crowd. This was an easy level for me. The only part I don't like is how part of the steam is touching the lemmings through the builder staircase at the end. Seems that lemmings are fine if it's the end that touches them since they don't get killed.

Groupie 39 - Not the incended solution It definitely escaped me that this is your design style. I think I also agree with the community that your levels tend to have backroutes abound, although it's just like you said, you didn't have anyone test your levels/packs before you released them. You changed that with LOA. This was a really easy level despite how I was taken by complete surprise with the hidden traps in the skull. I definitely should had known those creepy looking eyes were traps.

Groupie 40 - The Grand Puzzle To finish off a very well-done and the largest level pack so far ever released is a very large level. I have not played Nepster's Final Frustration level yet, but I knew this level was his style given what I read about the level in the level pack topic. As a matter of fact, I still need to go back and finish solving Nepsterlems. I'm currently stuck on the first level of Black Hole, so I think at this point it'll be amazing if I manage to solve even just one level in that rank :crylaugh:

Anyway, as for this level, truth be told, I initially was very intimidated by the extremely large level size. The high RR definitely didn't help matters once I started playing the level, but once I managed to stop those entrances that are heading into immediate danger, the rest of the level wasn't so bad. Needless to say, the first several skill assignments have to be extremely quick. I'm not sure how many, but I believe it's the first 15-20 skill assignments that need to be quick, so the beginning is definitely the most stressful part. However, as I just said, once you successfully manage to do all of that, the stress is eliminated and then you can take it a bit more easy. The level still doesn't become a whole lot easier, though.

I think as is true with almost everyone here and on difficult levels, builders is the skill that we all try to conserve as much as possible. Indeed, when I had made a lot of progress on the level and neared the end, I realized that I was running out of builders very quickly, and so the first thing I did after that is to find the places where I used more builders than was necessary and hence save rather than waste them instead. The destructive skills also surprisingly quickly, though I think the bashers and miners are the more problematic ones than the diggers. Due to the extremely high save requirement, it can also be really difficult to save all the blockers, especially the ones that are headed the wrong way. I think the most difficult area for me was the exit area, especially in regards to how to prevent climbers from going out to the right and dying. Also the area with the gold pillars with the two very tiny gaps can be difficult and very fiddly. The second right-most entrance area can also be difficult. After doing what I did by mining right away, I definitely could had made it easier by digging first. It's just that I didn't know where two builders would reach to seal off the gap with a lemming from the right-most entrance.

Several tricks are needed here: Digger-basher staircase, good use of delaying tactics without using builders, and either miner cancelling another miner, basher blocker turnaround, or digger cancelling another digger, and of course releasing blockers. As I'm writing this, I just realized I probably could had made the right-most entrance much easier by using the digger cancelling another digger trick. Or at least dig, block, and then dig with a left facing lemming to release the blocker.

Though I managed to solve the level, I'll be honest and that is I'm not a huge fan of this level due to how so much scrolling needs to be done, especially since it's impossible to watch all entrances depending on where you are in the level. If anything, I got extremely annoyed by the excessive scrolling that needed to be done very fast. That definitely made me dislike the level even more after I was past the initial intimidation. Because of this, a lot of pausing is needed, and it definitely makes planning the solution out that much more difficult. Looks like I echoed Icho's dislike of extremely large levels where you can't see all lemmings at once.

Added: TL:DR, my New Formats solution is a save all, and since it's an open-ended level the solution is likely minor variations with what digging destructive skills were used in various places. Also hence why there's a gold talisman since I notified Strato that a save all is possible on the level months after I had completed the Old Formats version :laugh:       

20 levels left in this gargantuan pack! Almost at the finish line :)

Overall, an excellent pack that I would definitely recommend despite the very large size of the pack. Even better if you're musically inclined, since you'll likely be able to understand the level title references to the songs. Though, it seems that not many people are fans of radiation/slowfreeze (Old Formats version), and if that's the case, I say they shouldn't bother with the Old Formats version and just play the New Formats version instead. As you know, I don't mind the culled radiation/slowfreeze, so I was willing to play through the Old Formats version. I wasn't playing it just to be the first person to complete the Old Formats version. Even then, there aren't that many of these levels in the pack itself, so there's still a lot of just standard puzzle levels that players can enjoy if they don't want to bother playing the radiation/slowfreeze levels. And who knows. When I do the New Formats version, I'll probably end up LPing it (done now! :)). It'll take an extremely long time, though, and from what I remember it's definitely very slow going at first with the first two ranks, especially since the levels in them are not your tutorials at all, and some are difficult. Of course, I'll let you know when I have started it and provide you the link ;)

Haha, I wasn't sure whether you would actually go ahead and post all the feedback again here. :thumbsup: At this point it's mainly for the sake of completion and consistency between the Old Formats and New Formats LWT Threat. After all, I already updated some of the levels in the meantime since you first played them in Old Formats. I'll focus specifically on the levels that differ from Old Formats due to culled features. But first, I need to finish watching the LP itself. ;)

Congrats Kaywhyn on finishing the LP

Also, here are my solutions to the Encore rank, just incase you didn't have enough replays to catch up on Strato :P

Spoiler

04 I used a builder wall on this one. It would have been nice to have the hatches pre-assigned on this one.
06 I used a trick with cancelling the basher using the blocker for this one, there probably is an easier way
09 Managed to save a builder and a miner with my solution, though this is likely just an optimisation rather than anything too unintended
11 Is sending them all down the left side intended on this one, or is this a backroute?
12 This one is a little bit tricky, using the cloner in the right spot is a little hidden
13 The trigger on this one is hidden even in clear physics mode, which made this one a bit frustrating
16 This is nice level to try and optimise. I managed to save 2 on this, I wonder if a save-3 is possible?
20 The main difficulty on this one was keeping the crowd in effeciently, but once that was done the rest was building across as necessary
21 Good puzzle, and the cloner is a clever way to avoid needing the save the digging lemming
22 Tougher than it first looks - getting the height to be able to fencer up to the exit isn't straightforward on this one.
23 The pre-text helps makes the teleporters less confusing than it first appears on the preview! The solution to this one is nice too.
26 Tricky one, but a good puzzle. I managed to save an extra 2 and didn't use the stoner in my solution
30 Nice take on a level based around bouncing a miner off a blocker, the extra details from the climber-floater add a nice twist at the end.
33 Great puzzle, having the lemmings from the 2nd hatch also help cross the water (and disarm the trap) is a nice part of the solution
35 Another good one - I didn't use the swimmer in my solution and saved on extra, but It feels like what I did here was largely intended.
36 The builders are very limited on this making this quite tricky
37 The highlight of the rank, this is a great puzzle!
39 I only used 4 of the 50 stackers in the end, and probably could have used less.

Quote from: Strato Incendus on December 31, 2021, 09:30:51 PM
Haha, I wasn't sure whether you would actually go ahead and post all the feedback again here. :thumbsup: At this point it's mainly for the sake of completion and consistency between the Old Formats and New Formats LWT Threat. After all, I already updated some of the levels in the meantime since you first played them in Old Formats. I'll focus specifically on the levels that differ from Old Formats due to culled features. But first, I need to finish watching the LP itself. ;)

Yes, I was serious about reposting my feedback, in particular copying/pasting the feedback from the Old Formats LWT thread, as there's no way I'm rewriting everything from scratch for nearly all 320 levels :P Here's another part of a post that couldn't fit in my second post above that I'll copy/paste from a Word document I kept open last night.

Start of missing part of post:

Again, I don't mind doing double duty of both a LP and posting feedback in the level pack topic despite it being more work than is necessary :P Once again, thanks so much for converting the pack to New Formats, Strato! :thumbsup: I enjoyed it very much, just like the Old Formats version, though I do agree the levels formerly featuring radiation/slowfreeze kind of have dull solutions in New Formats. I really do miss them, but well, if I want to play levels with those objects there's always Old Formats and very Old Formats :laugh:

End

---

It's also just for bookkeeping and for things to be in multiple places so that there's more than one way to access the feedback/information ;) After all, I do have plans to eventually post feedback to every level pack I've played. There's still the various Old Formats packs I need to post my replays/feedback for, which I've been meaning to do for a while now but haven't gotten around to doing so yet :laugh: Though, in this case, it's really just for historical reasons, as the replays will likely not be of interest for anyone other than the author of the pack due to pretty much everyone having transitioned to New Formats. Of course, there might still be someone out there making content for Old Formats, but as that hasn't been seen in a while, I think it's safe to say it's all New Formats now.

Quote from: Apjjm on December 31, 2021, 10:04:28 PM
Congrats Kaywhyn on finishing the LP

Thanks, Apjjm! :thumbsup: My congrats to you for completing the Encore rank as well. I knew you get through it in no time. Good luck with the final rank, Groupie. Very close to the end now :)

Finished the final rank & managed to complete The Grand Puzzle with a :tal-gold: solution :thumbsup:.
I have attached solutions to this last rank & the full collection of solutions grouped together.

Spoiler

01 Tricky one to start things off, my first attempt didn't save enough lemmings.
02 I managed to save an extra skill here, one of the easier puzzles of the rank but a clean solution.
03 I solved each subsection individually, I didn't realise some of the floor wasn't steel until the end!
04 It took me a while to realise that I needed to cross the skills, rather than extend the digger with stackers. Nice puzzle.
05 This is a nice lower-difficulty puzzle, with a nice solution much like 02.
06 Great puzzle, It took me a while to work out the importance of containing the crowd near the tree rather than at the start.
07 The compression trick here is clever but I found this one a bit fiddly to execute correctly, as it required timing a few assignments together.
08 Quite open ended but certainly non-trivial, the main challenge for me on this one was working out how to save the lemmings from the teleported above the water area.
09 This was a tough level! I made the mistake of having an unsavable blocker on my first attempt, and working out how to save the blocker took a while.
10 Fairly open ended after solving how to pick-up the various skills needed, but again still pretty tricky.
11 Nice level, I had quite a few skills leftover but my solution feels like it is intended. I can see the chains at the end obfuscating things a bit if you aren't familiar with how the lemmings climb them.
12 Bit of a breather after some of the previous ones.
13 The first impression of this one is daunting, but was fairly quick to solve. I spent some time trying to find a save-all solution but couldn't quite manage it, my replay is the closest I got (If i could assign a miner underneath the trap it would be a save-all).
14 This is a really good level - the two sides interact in a nice way in the solution I found which was quite satisfying to make work.
15 Hitting the various buttons on this was surprisingly tough to work out while saving enough skills, and a very different kind of puzzle to some of the previous levels which makes a nice change of pace.
16 A bit of an easier one again, could even serve as an intro to the cloner-blocker trick.
17 Staircase construction level, having as many lemmings as it did made the first part half of this take a bit longer than it needed to.
18 The staircase in the digger pit is quite subtle on this one, which could make this one a bit of a road-block if you don't spot it. Nice level.
19 I think how I dealt with the zombies isn't quite as intended.
20 I like the level art on this one, also certainly a hard level too as the constructive skills very quickly run out.
21 Brilliant level & one of the highlights of the rank. I like the way the solution requires releasing various worker lemmings at different times and how everything just links up at the end.
22 The main challenge on this was getting a worker lemming out in such a way the crowd can follow later near the start.
23 I initially tried a solution that involved mining to free the lemmings under the exit, then I realized I could build up instead.
24 Nice level using a builder step to finish a climbable surface, though the terrain does very strongly hint at the needed solution.
25 I managed to save a few skills on this by holding the crowd near the one-way-wall which made releasing them at the end quite nice.
26 Not too difficult, but I found that I did need to be careful about what skill went where to avoid running out.
27 Great puzzle as the two builders are forced placements so you have really solve things with destructive skills only. I didn't realise the exit was buried at first which stumped me for a bit.
28 An easier level again, the tileset for this is very pretty.
29 Nice puzzle, the tree through the steel does give a very strong hint as to where the crowd needed to go which did make working out the solution a bit easier.
30 I imagine there are multiple solutions here, I made use of the diagonal pillar in mine.
31 The exit made me laugh here.
32 Tricky level, I initially tried holding the lemmings near the one-way wall but couldn't build in such a way that releasing them later was possible.
33 Brilliant one-of-everything level and perhaps tied favourite of the rank with 21.
34 Nice classic skills puzzle, needing to use the bomber to release the crowd at the one-way-wall is a nice detail.
35 A straight-forward builder level
36 My solution here must be a backroute as I just sent all the lemmings to the left and didn't use the other side of the level.
37 I used a variant of the basher-blocker trick on this, though I think this isn't required.
38 I liked the way the worker lemmings completed the builders on the pillars on this one.
39 Did a save-all solution to this one - not the intended solution? :P
40 This is certainly a challenge to round out what has been an excellent level pack! Despite having 20 of everything the skills quickly run out. I somehow got the gold talisman here, which was an incredibly satisfying way to finish the pack.

Overall this has been a great pack to play through over the past couple of months, with plenty of quality levels. That all the levels all tie into the song-title gives the pack a great theme and a distinct feel from the perspective of somebody playing it. My only real criticism of some levels is that a few have too many repeated assignments in them.

Regarding difficulty, I found the pack to be Medium-Hard. Some of the later levels are really tough - and some of the earlier ranks have a few difficulty spikes in them too.

Thanks for making a really enjoyable pack Strato :thumbsup: - I am looking forward to playing Open Air in the future!

Quote from: Apjjm on January 02, 2022, 06:15:18 PM
Finished the final rank & managed to complete The Grand Puzzle with a :tal-gold: solution :thumbsup:.

Congratulations Apjjm for solving all of LWT! :thumbsup: It's been a great joy following along in your journey and reading your feedback, a lot of which I'm in complete agreement with ;)

Quote
Regarding difficulty, I found the pack to be Medium-Hard. Some of the later levels are really tough - and some of the earlier ranks have a few difficulty spikes in them too.

While it is true that some levels are higher than medium in difficulty, taken across the entire pack the difficulty averages out to be around medium, which I think is what Strato went by, which I feel is quite accurate. On the other hand...

Quote
Thanks for making a really enjoyable pack Strato :thumbsup: - I am looking forward to playing Open Air in the future!

Medium-Hard is very accurate here for LOA, as the pack is, on average, much harder than any of Strato's earlier packs. There are way more levels that are above medium in difficulty here and hence taken across the entire pack the difficulty is Medium-Hard. However, don't let that discourage and intimidate you. I will definitely look forward to you solving this pack. As one of the people who pre-tested the pack, I can't recommend this pack enough. I could go on and on praising this pack so much :) One of the best packs I've played from Strato.

I've also did a bit of public pre-testing for Lemmings: Hall of Fame, though that's from the current incomplete state of the pack, as there's still the second half that needs to be made. While the demo currently has a lot of levels in a very backroutable state, it is still shaping up to be harder than LOA in my experiences. It's another musically themed pack, though Lemmings 2 themed.   

After watching IchoTolot complete "Mary had a little lem", I knew I could do better than that, so here are a triad of my own solutions that might have room for improvement.

• Saved 1 extra lemming using just 2 Builders and no Platformers (no limit on other tools - could make it just 1 Builder if the second lemming from the right trapdoor Stones at the start so the Disarmer has some distance)
• Saved 2 extra lemmings
• Saved 1 extra lemming using just 1 Stoner (no limit on other tools)

I have a quation

i want to play this but  NXP convert gets a error.
how to play this without the NXP convert.

Quote from: beuker1989 on April 04, 2022, 05:24:43 PM
I have a quation

i want to play this but  NXP convert gets a error.
how to play this without the NXP convert.

There is no need for the nxp converter here.

Just put the pack's level files folder into the "levels" folder of NeoLemmix and you should be good to go.

Thanks for responding for me, IchoTolot! :)

The NXP Converter isn't needed for any New-Formats packs. If you take the Old-Formats version of this pack and stick it into the NXP Converter, a bunch of levels will come out in an unplayable state (for starters, those that feature radiation and slowfreeze objects). Hence, it's usually the pack creators who convert old packs to New Formats. And for LWT, I've done so ages ago.

I still want to make Pit Lems (my second pack ever made) available for New Formats eventually. All the levels are converted, but there are additional ones I want to add (the select "good" levels from Paralems, which was my very first pack, as well as a few from Lemmicks, my third pack - only if they didn't make it into the Encore rank of LWT, though). And again, there are a few radiation and slowfreeze levels in Pit Lems which I currently don't know how to overhaul yet.