All levels (12 NeoLemmix level and 2 Lix level): https://www.dropbox.com/s/omrarzi9admtr49/Contest13Levels.zip?dl=1
- The .lvl levels can be loaded with the Neolemmix Player. The .txt level needs to be put into Lix's levels folder, then it can be loaded inside the program.
NeoLemmix levels in NXP Pack form: https://www.dropbox.com/s/wqzfmenmfmet9la/Contest13LevelCollection.nxp?dl=1
- The pack can be loaded with the Neolemmix Player.
Music: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2vtwh51j7n7seuz/Contest13Music.zip?dl=1
- The music must be put inside the music folder of the NeoLemmix player. If the folder doesn't exists, create it.
The Lix levels: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zsg7qkvqaf2bnhn/Contest13LixLevels.zip?dl=1
- The .txt levels needs to be put into Lix's levels folder, then they can be loaded inside the program.
Rule 1 Levels (Level uses tileset mixing)
Flopsy's "The Mobius Space Race" (V6)
Nessy's "Excavation Site" (V2)
nin10doadict's "Frozen factory" (V2)
Raymanni's "Cataclysm" (V1)
Proxima's "Oh No! More Tame Levels" (V3)
Simon's "Key to the Sacred Kingdom" (V9)
Colorful Arty's "Crystal Enclosure" (V1)
Rule 2 Levels (Level has at least 2 different solutions)
IchoTolot's "Mount Lemmerest" (V2)
nin10doadict's "Power Core" (V12)
Rule 3 Levels (Level uses a non original (L1,L2,L3) tileset)
bsmith's "Colorful August" (V2)
Colorful Arty's "Expedition to the Moon Sancturary" (V1)
Flopsy's "You Get What You Deserve!" (V4)
IchoTolot's "Awakening of Aggressions" (V1)
mobius's "Temple of Doom" (V2)
Playing Phase will be closed on 31th of Oktober!
Updates will close on 28th of Oktober!
Note: This topic is for posting your comments, replays, etc for the levels. If you wish to post an update to your level, or enter a late submission, please do so in the Updates Topic instead.
This contest we have a lot of extremely beautiful levels. :thumbsup:
bsmith's "Colorful August"
I smell a backroute here. But I can see a huge potential for really good solutions.
Colorful Arty's "Crystal Enclosure"
Very beautiful level, but probably a very ugly backroute. Still the hardest level in my opinion.
Colorful Arty's "Expedition to the Moon Sancturary"
While the moon base looks totally amazing, I am less a fan of the space ship. My solution is nice, but I might have simplified it a little bit... One question though: Why 100 lemmings, when 20 lemmings would have been totally sufficient?
Flopsy's "The Mobius Space Race"
It is almost a disjoint union and even saving all lemmings isn't really hard. But you should really check the trap trigger areas. :P And why are there 100 lemmings, so that one has to change the RR in order to solve the level within the time limit? Wouldn't have 40 lemmings been absolutely sufficient?
Flopsy's "You Get What You Deserve!"
Too big, too many "Wafflems" and too many precise skill assignments for my taste. One just fiddles around and after solving the level hasn't really the feeling that anything one did was actually intended. Still a pretty challenging level, though.
IchoTolot's "Mount Lemmerest"
Did I already mention seomwhere, that I hate such big level? Granted, the terrain is nice (though some grass pieces could be flipped so that the striping goes only from top-left to bottom-right), and the solution is not too obvious (though I have some builders spare). But the level could easily fit into a much smaller space! Far less scrolling and far less lag on my computer.
IchoTolot's "Awakening of Aggressions"
Another level that is huge, though admittedly looks nice! Good level idea, but the implementation lacks a little bit. For example bridging the final gap: While one can easily see that the builder from the right will turn around, I totally expected the builder from the right to turn around as well and was very surprised when I found out this doesn't need to happen. That was actually by far the biggest road-block in the level.
PS: Did you just steal my release-the-crowd trick from my level "Dark Secret" from contest 12? :P
mobius's "Temple of Doom"
Nice little level and pretty easy. Freeing the upper hatch my way is probably not intended, though.
Nessy's "Excavation Site"
Very beautiful level and a nice solution. But there are a few tries that fail due to a single pixel: Firstly climbing out of the starting pit to the right is only possible temporarily, as the basher will remove a single pixel that prevents climbing up there. That one can not climb up the second pit can easily be overlooked, too. Secondly building over the second gap in such a way that the builder turns around is possible, but requires some precision. Finally the basher freeing the crowd has to start rather early, or one will remove part of the bridge over the first gap.
One last thing: Why so many lemmings, when 20 or 40 would have worked equally well?
nin10doadict's "Frozen factory"
This has to be a backroute, because I basically just built up to the exit.
nin10doadict's "Power Core"
Nice take on the two-solution rule. But I fear my solution is again not 100% intended. The faulty power cords are an amazing design, btw!
Raymanni's "Cataclysm"
Extremely beautiful level, but its sooo huge that it slows down my computer considerably. With some precision timing, I solved the level without the fencer.
Simon's "Key to the Sacred Kingdom"
This has to be a huge backroute.
Rule 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6TeBrkF9gE
Rule 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyYPgnEPXPY
Rule 3 (part 1): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsT0Bz3H2BM (bsmith and Arty's levels)
Rule 3 (part 2): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iQRVusYTys (IchoTolot and Mobius's levels)
General remarks
Spoiler
R1
Nessy Excavation Site: Was a great level to start me off, my solution has to be a backroute though. I liked the design for this one though, it was a great scene of a disowned space station type level.
nin10doadict Frozen factory: Yeah, I said this in the video but I failed to understand why the platformer pick up skills were necessary. If they were unlock buttons then this level would be much harder I feel. Great design choice again!
Raymanni Cataclysm: Great level design and took me a while to figure out. This is my favourite of the R1 levels!
R2
Arty Crystal Enclosure: I didn't understand how there were 2 solutions to this level personally. I'm also not a fan of one frame miner strokes as used in my video solution.
Icho Mount Lemmerest: Loved the Highland tileset use but I believe this was a backroute, decided to go for the right hand exit but then switched to the left. The music was really good as well :)
nin10doadict Power Core: This one was pretty tricky and hard to get right. It was highly enjoyable though :)
R3
bsmith Colourful August: I thought for a moment there was a level named after Colorful Arty XD. This one was really tricky but it was fun to work out. It was a great level which looked like it could win this contest!
Arty Expedition to the Moon Sanctuary: Wow, what a great reference to the DuckTales Moon stage, ironic how you played that on your channel recently. The level was highly enjoyable but just one gripe. It was not clear that there was an updraft in effect on the whole level, this needs to be made clearer I feel. Even if it's a pre level screen telling you!
Icho Awakening of Aggressions - Wasn't able to solve this level, it was the only one that I wasn't able to solve in the whole contest. I don't seem to get on with this tileset at all, nothing personal! It's a nice level nonetheless despite the frustration on video trying to solve it!
Mobius Temple of Doom - First ever zanzindorf tileset submission to any contest which I've been able to solve. I solved the V2 of this level as well since it was updated before I attempted it on video. I really enjoyed working this one out, I'm not sure if this was intended but I liked my solution and this is very strong competition.
All the Rule 3 levels were very good, well done to everyone. I think Arty's is best by a pinch though just because of the Duck Tales music and moon reference in the music.
In response to Nepster:
Spoiler
You successfully found ONE solution to my Rule 2 level, although I thought to do that you needed to manipulate the RR for the crowd control to ensure only one lemming left the area. I guess not. I encourage you to find the other solution, which is much better.
As for my rule 3 level, I did the best I could with the Galaxy tileset. I also gave 100 lemmings because I felt like it; I like levels with lots of lemmings.
Flopsy, you can reduce the lag in my level by deactivating the high quality minimap. :(
Comments for Nepster
Thank you for the feedback :thumbsup:
1) The basher taking out the ability to climb out of the starting pit on the right is intentional, but I can easily move the terrain piece in question more up to make the inability to climb out more obvious.
2) I didn't know that too many lemmings was frowned upon. I can reduce the number of lemmings to 30 or 40 no problem :)
Well I was going to record my attempts at these... Then I looked at them.
NOPE :o NOPE :lem-shocked: NOPE :lem-mindblown:
These are all way too hard for me. All I can do is just say "oh wow these look pretty." So I won't be voting on them.
Quote from: Nessy on October 01, 2017, 07:07:34 PM
2) I didn't know that too many lemmings was frowned upon. I can reduce the number of lemmings to 30 or 40 no problem :)
No, it isn't generally frowned upon. That's just my personal opinion. Some people like huge lemmings crowds and some (like me) prefer a minimalistic approach.
Quote from: Nepster on October 01, 2017, 07:28:05 PM
No, it isn't generally frowned upon. That's just my personal opinion. Some people like huge lemmings crowds and some (like me) prefer a minimalistic approach.
Oh okay, but I still might reduce the number of lemmings because the current number doesn't really add anything to the solution and it doesn't prevent any backroutes.
By the way
Your reply was the intended solution :thumbsup:. However, it seems that there is an extra climber that isn't needed so I will remove it in V2 along with the other changes based on your feedback.
Comments for Flopsy
Unfortunately you did backroute my level, but I see the problem and it should be an easy fix :). Thanks for the feedback as well!
To write it in here as well: All updates to this point have been included in the zip archive and nxp. :)
Just an addition note to those who have been watching my videos on the contest levels.
I do intend on re-attempting the levels this time when all updates are done and dusted. I'll wait until updates stop coming in for a few days before I do so.
I also intend on re-attempting IchoTolot's R3 submission as well since I was unable to solve that one first time round.
I've also updated my feedback to include Icho's and Mobius's R3 levels as well in the post above :)
Joke review of the contest entries is up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJW7p5Lgq-4&feature=youtu.be
Don't take it seriously. It's a joke. :D
Quote from: nin10doadict on October 04, 2017, 06:13:04 PM
Joke review of the contest entries is up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJW7p5Lgq-4&feature=youtu.be
Don't take it seriously. It's a joke. :D
You should probably add that it contains spoilers for my R3 level, if someone wants to solve it theirselves. ;P
Can you give me a hint on Rule 2 level by IchoTolot?
I solved some of the levels.
Here are more solutions.
Nice job Josh!
Spoiler
Crystal Enclosure: That's the easier of the two solutions, and the only one people have found thus far. I encourage you to find the other one, which does not involve going through the ceiling.
Expedition to the Moon Sanctuary: I have never seen that solution before, but I love it! This is an "any way you want" kind of level, so I always like seeing people's solutions to it (there are at least 6 distinct solutions at this point, all of which are roughly equally challenging.)
I solved Simon's level.
Quote from: joshescue18 on October 07, 2017, 11:10:36 PM
Here are more solutions.
Both of my levels are intended! :thumbsup: Great job! :thumbsup:
You found solution 2 of my R2 level which starts on the right bottom side and ends in the left top exit. There is another one that starts on the left bottom side and ends in the top right exit, which I consider to be slightly harder ;) Can anyone find this solution as well?
Also josh's solving time encourages me to place this as planned in the beginning section of rank 4 in United.
Also expect my solution videos to be coming soon now. ;)
Quote from: joshescue18
I solved Simon's level.
joshescue18: Thanks for solving! It's a backroute and I'll fix it these days, but it's ingenious. Your idea is worthy of its own level.
-- Simon
Both of joshescue's solutions to my levels are backroutes.
Another update for me
SacredKingdom v3 is in first post with fix against Josh's backroute.
-- Simon
Here are some replays so far, four to be exact. :-[
nin10doadict - Power Core
Very nice level. It didn't take me long to figure it out and I'm not sure if it's a backroute or not. I love the music. :)
bsmith - Colorful August
I had very hard time with this one and I think my final solution ended up being backroute. :'(
Colorful Arty - Expedition to the Moon Sanctuary
I nice relief from the super hard levels. I had fun solving it though. Love the cheese. ;P
mobius - Temple of Doom
Might be a backroute, not sure. I like it nevertheless. :D
Now it's time to tackle the harder levels... :XD:
https://www.twitch.tv/callmebronco4511/videos/all
streamed the contest #13, (in two parts) about half of the levels, solved some of them. Had fun; thanks to those who came :D
didn't solve: Nessy's level or BSmiths level but made some interesting progress on them.
Two slightly different solutions for Simon's level ("Key to the Sacred Kingdoms" V3).
Quote from: mobius on October 08, 2017, 05:21:55 PM
https://www.twitch.tv/callmebronco4511/videos/all
streamed the contest #13, (in two parts) about half of the levels, solved some of them. Had fun; thanks to those who came :D
didn't solve: Nessy's level or BSmiths level but made some interesting progress on them.
Sorry I couldn't make it to the livestream :(, but I saw a little bit of your attempts on my contest level and I have a few comments:
Spoiler
- The idea of a lemming going through the horizontal tree branch after another one bashes through it is unintentional, and that trick is not required to solve the level. However, if you want a hint for that part:
Hint
You don't need the basher or miner for that one-way tree branch, but you do need two other skills used together...
- Flopsy: The custom music is the Alien 1 theme from the PC version of 3D Lemmings. I like the PS1 version more but this version seemed to fit the level more.
- The updrafts are purely for decorative purposes.
- Sending the crowd through the bottom part of the level is intended.
Here are more solutions.
I've finally uploaded my video-solutions to the current versions of the levels. The last one of these containing the solutions to my levels, including both of my R2 solutions.
Link to the first video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkUvRrp7JEQ&list=PLKR1N9oJTTlKa23xOtzcGO4-6cPUwhhia&index=27
I finished Nessy's level.
solved BSmith's level on my own. Was semi-hard but have skills leftover.
I will work on my own level and update it in a few days.
Quote from: joshescue18 on October 09, 2017, 12:57:55 AM
I finished Nessy's level.
Nice job joshescue18! You got the intended solution :thumbsup:.
SacredKingdom: Forestidia86 (two replays) and Icho (video) found the same backroute in 3 variations. This backroute is easiest in v3, but looks already possible in v1 and v2.
v5 in first post.
-- Simon
A solution for V5 of Simon's level. Sorry, if it's another backroute. It felt somehow like that but I used all skills.
Forestidia86: This v5 solution is much closer already. But the builders feel too hackish to let it stand. I'll try to reduce the number of builders, and already have a rough idea how to fix.
Don't apologize for finding backroutes -- the backroutes are in the level whether you find them or not. :lix-evil: Getting this many replays is great feedback for me.
-- Simon
Solution for V6 of Simon's level. Felt less hackish.
my thoughts so far:
Quick key of difficulties terminology I may use:
easy - moderate - difficult - super difficult - savage difficult
Arty's levels:
Crystal Enclosure-
Spoiler
I liked this one; feels very impossible at first then
takes a very classic trick but puts a twist on it. The other solution (backroute?) of going through the ceiling I'm not real fond of though; those solutions feel hacky to me. I like it visually.
I did not like the music at all; but this won't effect my vote fyi. (I heard it on Icho's video)
Expedition to the Moon Sanctuary -
Spoiler
The solutino is nice many-things-go type, 2 of each skill and the level is unique with the "low gravity" theme.
I'm not as big of a fan of these tilesets.
Ichos levels:
mount lemmerest
Spoiler
Though I say I usually don't like big levels; I really liked this one. It didn't feel overwhelming. I like the same trick being used twice. It felt like it had a running theme of hills like going up a mountain.
I feel like I could've solved this on my own.
Awakening of Agressions
Spoiler
Nice visuals. Super Hard difficulty. Perhaps (but maybe not) borders on using too many tough tricks in one level which makes it too tough for my taste but after looking at it; pretty nice none the less. Reminded me slightly of geoo's Stroke at Retirement age which puts together a bunch of savage hard tricks into one; this kind of level is too much for me, not fun overall.
Nessys level:
Spoiler
Good visuals. Overall and interesting layout and very difficult puzzle. Haven't solved yet but I think I know the solution.
Raymanni:
Spoiler
you level was visually very cool looking. The solution was cleverly hidden, about moderate difficulty.
BSmith:
Spoiler
Quite a tough one despite it's simplicity (my favorite type of level). Even if what I've found what a backroute, was still fun and quite difficult.
On visuals: I'm not real fond of the psychedelic set but this was okay.
Simon:
Spoiler
Played this a little but got very frustrated right away. I'm not a fan of this style of level. (containing crowds). The visuals are nice though.
Flopsy
Spoiler
Mobius Space Race: How can I not love a level that's dedicated to me? :P
I haven't given all of them a thorough playing yet. Even if I don't solve all of them myself I am happy I actually was able to participate this time and can vote.
Here's another solution to Flopsy's Rule 1 level.
Quote from: joshescue18 on October 10, 2017, 02:18:16 AM
Here's another solution to Flopsy's Rule 1 level.
This is intended, at last :)
We've got a new Lix entry from Proxima to Rule 1! :):lix-smile:
The link to all levels and the one to the lix levels should include it now.
Have fun playing it!
Have solved Proxima's Lix level V1 ("Oh No! More Tame Levels").
Here are my replays for both of the Lix levels. I finally managed to beat Simon's level too. :lix-smile:
Resolved stuff! :)
Resolved Simons V6 level, Flopsy's R1 (this one seems really overfixed by now sadly, I would maybe roll it back to an earlier version and change the skillset) and R3 level.
Also Proximas R1 level is solved. Liked the mash up here, but I could have backrouted it, as I've got some stuff left ;)
Resolved Proxima's level. :)
Solution to V2 of Proxima's Lix level. Had skills left.
Resolving of both solutions to nin10doadict's R2 level.
Just wanted to make a quick post about a solution I found to bsmith's level that I think might be a backroute. It is attached below.
I also attached my solutions to both updated Lix contest levels:
Comments
Oh No! More Tame Levels: Great concept and level! I used all the skills but I'm not certain if I used them the intended way.
Key To The Sacred Kingdom: Another great level! That trick used to contain the Lix, if intentional, is pretty neat.
I solved Proxima's level.
solved "Oh no more tame levels"
Spoiler
nice theme and design. I think this is a backroute; 2 skills leftover.
Resolved V3 of Proxima's level. :)
Solution to Proxima's Lix level V3.
I resolved both of the Lix levels.
Updated Power Core again. At least V3 was closer to having the right side solution work entirely as planned... V4 should shut down the trick that's backrouting the left side route and hopefully enforce the right side solution too.
Quote from: nin10doadict on October 10, 2017, 11:34:54 PM
Updated Power Core again. At least V3 was closer to having the right side solution work entirely as planned... V4 should shut down the trick that's backrouting the left side route and hopefully enforce the right side solution too.
Resolved the level. :)
Two solutions to Proxima's v3 attached.
I should meet with Icho in 1-2 weeks and play the NL levels. I have sorely neglected that.
joshescue18: Wow, very precise execution -- but sadly still the old backroute. I thought I had fixed that. v7 makes it much clearer that this should be impossible.
Nessy: This is very close, beautiful idea, I've considered whether I'll let it stand. But I'd rather keep this idea for a separate level, and fix SacredKingdom one more time.
-- Simon
Solved V7 of Simon's level.
Solved V7 as well, but this just seems like the old known backroute. ;P
Forestidia is very close, similar to Nessy's solution. Over the next days, I'll see whether this has a simple fix. If I don't find any fix, I'll be happy to accept this alternative.
Icho has revived the good old backroute. :8():
-- Simon
I'm going to start calling Icho "Old Reliable" because he's really good at breaking things. By all means, keep it up! ;)
Power Core V5 is ready. I plan to keep tweaking this until it is backroute free.
Quote from: nin10doadict on October 11, 2017, 03:55:53 PM
I'm going to start calling Icho "Old Reliable" because he's really good at breaking things. By all means, keep it up! ;)
Power Core V5 is ready. I plan to keep tweaking this until it is backroute free.
Only solution 1 broke the other one is still working. Resolved the broken one.
Nice job IchoTolot, you backrouted my level so hard I don't know how to fix it. That steel block was supposed to stop a backroute, not add one.
My intended solution is similar to the solution by joshescue18 earlier in this thread.
Five new solutions to updated NeoLemmix levels. The solutions should be for relatively recent versions, but due to the rather frequent backroute-fixes, don't be surprised if I am one (or even) two version behind.
Quote from: bsmith on October 11, 2017, 06:14:21 PM
Nice job IchoTolot, you backrouted my level so hard I don't know how to fix it. That steel block was supposed to stop a backroute, not add one.
My intended solution is similar to the solution by joshescue18 earlier in this thread.
Well, as I had skills left over + saved a lem more than needed and the solution is tricky too: There is always the trick in fixing the level by making my route intended and cut the other ones. ;)
I've done that method a few times by now. Cutting 2 platformers and a blocker and raise the save requirement by 1 could even make this harder.
Nepster: You found the intended 2nd solution to my R2 level. :thumbsup:
Finally nailed down one of the solutions. Icho placed a stoner slightly differently than I did but still had to use everything so I'm satisfied. But I really thought that adding another flamethrower would stop that one backroute. Apparently on the first frame that a Lemming walks off of a ledge he cannot be burned by fire. Not sure why that is, but so it goes...
V6 takes a different approach to seal this backroute. Hopefully this one works.
Quote from: nin10doadict on October 12, 2017, 02:09:39 AM
Finally nailed down one of the solutions. Icho placed a stoner slightly differently than I did but still had to use everything so I'm satisfied. But I really thought that adding another flamethrower would stop that one backroute. Apparently on the first frame that a Lemming walks off of a ledge he cannot be burned by fire. Not sure why that is, but so it goes...
V6 takes a different approach to seal this backroute. Hopefully this one works.
This time solution 2 broke while solution 1 was still ok. Only a minimal change had to happen (one stoner needed to be a few pixels lower) to make it work again.
Just another solution to Simon's V7 level, which I think is a backroute since
Spoiler
it abuses decoration.
Attached solutions to the two Lix levels.
Simon's level
The builders to contain the crowd are extremely precise.
Proxima's level
I saved one lix more than required. Nice and relatively easy level.
Nudged the hazard over in Power Core because you could still sneak around it. I really hope this finishes the job. I'm starting to develop a vendetta toward my own level.
Quote from: nin10doadict on October 14, 2017, 01:13:35 AM
Nudged the hazard over in Power Core because you could still sneak around it. I really hope this finishes the job. I'm starting to develop a vendetta toward my own level.
Solution 2 needed resolving, but I still think this is unintentional. :P
Saw no easy fix for that except to redesign that ending area.
Solved V8 of the level. :)
I ignored my gut feeling that the tiny passage could break something. I shouldn't have. :devil: Patched.
Resolved. :)
Killed your backroute with fire. :evil:
Quote from: nin10doadict on October 16, 2017, 06:27:49 PM
Killed your backroute with fire. :evil:
Revived it through fire and flames. ;)
Simon_r1v8 in update topic (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=3442.msg66877#msg66877)
Simon_r1v7 by Forestidia
Deco abuse is indeed a backroute, but you're on the right track. v8 doesn't have this deco anymore.
The other solution that builds against pillar is very precise and I'd like to remove that. It's not as close to the intended route as the deco abuse.
Simon_r1v7 by Nepster
This goes in the right direction, but it misses the idea and is precision-ragey. v8 should make this impossible.
-- Simon
I have a solution for Simon's renewed level (V8).
If that's intended I think I would have never gotten to that idea in the original level. It feels somehow out of the box.
Forestidia: That's practically the intended solution. Well done!
Forestidia, small detail
My solution assigns the digger on top of the middle pillar, not to the right of the middle pillar. But like you did, I then cancel it by builder assignment underneath the floor.
This avoids the feeling that the digger digs while standing on air. I'm not even sure whether I want this behavior in the first place -- it is pixel-precise, it works only one pixel to the side of the pillar. NeoLemmix would allow more leeway for this digger. But since NL allows it at all, it's probably not a huge problem in Lix to allow it, too.
-- Simon
Concerning the small detail: That way it doesn't seem that odd for me anymore like how I did it in my solution. I practically tried around until I saw that this could work out.
Okay, cool! Thanks for the frequent tries through all the iterations. Happy that you found the intended route.
I'd like to keep the small level. Even if I have to decorate it for the tileset-mixing rule, unless backroutes appear, I'll keep its functionality.
-- Simon
Ok, V8 solved and here is some feedback regardless of not confirming to any one of the rules:
This has to be the intended solution as there's nothing else left that you even can do and here begin the problems on why I think V7 was the way superior version:
- The entropy of the level is extremely low. If you don't assign a skill on a designated spot you will be roasted, so the solution is served to you on a silver plate and it makes the level extremely easy.
This leads to the next problem:
- Getting roasted if you do nearly anything is not very fun to play. Lemmings and Lix I would say is also for a bigger part trying out different approaches even if they fail. Here you get immidiatly roasted and that really sucks out the fun of trying out different things.
- The level feels cramped together. Miniatures in general have this problem, but here it is more severe. Everything is in such a tight space covered in fire that is not really that good looking and you've got no room to do anything (related to the problems before).
- The looks of the level went from beautiful to meh. In the V7 version we had a nice looking landscape with water and plants, now we've got a tiny cramped together structure with tons of fire on it.
The most important point:
- The backroutes were often similar to the intended way I must say and I think getting the crowd contained in general made the level interesting and was the heart of the level (not the exact intended way). The different ways you could approach and accomplish the problem made this a good level. Now you can't do anything and it feels empty and boring. Scrap the exact intended way and keep the alternatives! This is a case where the intended way holds back the level big time and only causes horrible overfixing, minimising of entropy and a cramped together design, while trowing away the approach and fun side of the level with the alternatives.
That's why I think V7 was by far the superior version and I would keep that a million times over V8. :8():
Another backroute for Simon, this time for V8. Btw, I disagree with IchoTolot and prefer the miniature.
Well, I didn't know you could having a lemming be touching the ground yet still in a falling state, thus allowing instant use of a stoner to form a wall that touches the ground. Can't fix that, but I can find other ways to prevent you from using it.
Quote from: nin10doadict on October 18, 2017, 01:17:54 AM
Well, I didn't know you could having a lemming be touching the ground yet still in a falling state, thus allowing instant use of a stoner to form a wall that touches the ground. Can't fix that, but I can find other ways to prevent you from using it.
Resolved the level, both solutions needed adjustments. I think this might be it, but now the start execution is really annoying. For the first stoner extreme precision and timing is needed as you want the exact ammount of lems to pass but still have enough of a gap between them, because of the teleporter. Would lower the RR here by a bit to ease the execution.
Looks like it finally has the solutions I'm going for. Yes, the execution at the start is now very fiddly, but if I turn down the release rate too much then it allows the old backroute to come back again.
That said, it can be lowered a bit without letting the backroute reappear. It's still a little fiddly (I think the left side is the harder side now thanks to having to use a different skill), but it's better. Hopefully I won't have to make any more changes after this.
Thank you Icho for being so patient with the testing! :D
Much better on the execution side, this little change was enough for me! :)
Quote from: nin10doadict on October 18, 2017, 10:40:23 PM
Thank you Icho for being so patient with the testing! :D
That's what I do. ;)
Only 2 days until updates close!
If you want to do more changes, now is the time! :)
Updates have closed now!
The update topic is locked and the rest of the month is reserved for you to play the latest versions of the entries. :)
Hi, sorry that this took so long but I may have finally figured out the second intended solution to Colorful Arty's "Crystal Enclosure" (a solution that does not go through the ceiling). I have attached that replay below.
Comments
If it is intended or close to intended then... wow :thumbsup:. Very creative solution and I can understand why you wanted to enforce that solution. Unfortunately there were some parts that felt hackish (my fault though), but hopefully the spirit of the solution is there.
Holy miner physics Batman! That is an impressive solution! :lem-mindblown:
Spoiler
You got the main trick with the builders and cloners correct, but the rest of it was much more hackish and precise than necessary.
You can go through the crystals in a more elegant way, but amazing job! I consider that perfectly acceptable! :thumbsup:
Yep just as I predicted: I over-complicated the heck out of it :evil:. Sorry about that. I went back and I believe I found the true intended way of getting through the terrain. The replay is attached below.
Spoiler
The terrain is excellent the way it is laid out, as you can figure out how to navigate the level by paying attention to how the crystals are positioned.
I'm sorry, what happened to this rule (from the main contest topic (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=3359.0))?
Quote- Update phase deadline will extend such that it's 72 hours from the time of the last update, with no limits on how much it may extend.
As I've mentioned in chat, I'm on a training course at the moment, and today was the only day I could work on my level. If I'm not allowed to update (which would be unfair, when the rules say the deadline should be extended) then I'll have to ask for my level to be withdrawn.
Quote from: Proxima on October 26, 2017, 05:59:16 PM
I'm sorry, what happened to this rule (from the main contest topic (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=3359.0))?
Quote- Update phase deadline will extend such that it's 72 hours from the time of the last update, with no limits on how much it may extend.
As I've mentioned in chat, I'm on a training course at the moment, and today was the only day I could work on my level. If I'm not allowed to update (which would be unfair, when the rules say the deadline should be extended) then I'll have to ask for my level to be withdrawn.
Totally missed that rule, but I think for the next contest I will simplify this and remove it, so only a static deadline is there. We've already got enough extension rules which make the overall pogress unnessesarily complicated.
I'll unlock the update topic again and extend the deadline once more until
Saturday 28th and make this the
final date!
Well it took me long enough but I finally solved all the contest levels :) I have attached my replies below for completion, but none of them are backroutes so don't worry.
Additional comment: I have included both intended solutions to IchoTolot's "Mount Lemmerest", but I still haven't figured out the second solution to nin10doadict's "Power Core". Will post again when I do.
Flopsy's "The Mobius Space Race"
Very nice level and very fun to solve. It could technically be two different levels, but that's okay because that was the theme: a level being a race between two different zones that converge at the end. I also liked how the time limit wasn't too tight, but tight enough to enforce both "sides" being done at the same time to complement the concept of the level.
nin10doadict's "Frozen factory"
Nice theme of a frozen factory. The crowd control was a bit fiddly, but it wasn't too bad and I liked the idea of having to explore the factory to collect the platformer pickup skills you needed to solve the level.
Raymanni's "Cataclysm"
Excellent use of tileset mixing to create an atmosphere and theme in your level. The solution also complemented the level nicely.
Proxima's "Oh No! More Tame Levels"
Nice concept and was fun to solve. Loved the tiny Tame level idea and the idea of how you had to pay attention to the terrain in order to effectively use all your skills in the right place.
Simon's "Key to the Sacred Kingdom"
I believe I finally solved it intentionally, and it was a very nice level. However, and personally, I liked the original version better as the decoration made the level look more like an entrance to a sacred kingdom, but your mini version is also nice and that's just a personal preference.
Colorful Arty's "Crystal Enclosure"
I am still blown away by this level. The trick used with the cloner and builder is something I have never seen before and I'm glad you decided to enforce it. I have also solved it with a hack-free and more elegant solution, so I can safely say that I have officially solved it 100% intentionally :).
IchoTolot's "Mount Lemmerest"
Excellent and beautiful level! :thumbsup: It is very well made as the level has two completely different approaches without making it obvious that it does visually, as in the level looks whole instead of divided into two different sections for both solutions. Great work!
nin10doadict's "Power Core"
Love the use of the wires that connected the button to the exits and to the traps as well. It also doesn't look like it underwent a lot of backroute fixes. It is a power core after all, it's not going to be the safest place to explore :). Unfortunately I still can't figure out the right hand solution that leads to the left exit. My problem is getting a lemming separated to complete the final platform next to the left exit. Will post solution when I solve it.
bsmith's "Colorful August"
Very nice puzzle. My solution used all skills except one miner, but it's probably one little thing I overlooked and it isn't a backroute.
Colorful Arty's "Expedition to the Moon Sancturary"
Excellent level. I love the idea of the low gravity. I didn't know right away that it was there, but I don't think there's anything you can do about it and introducing it when the lemmings fell from the hatch was the best way to handle it I think. Also love how there are multiple solutions and I love design of the sanctuary.
Flopsy's "You Get What You Deserve!"
Excellent locked exit puzzle! Sure you had 5 of everything, but this level quickly made it clear that if you don't use these skills wisely your chance of solving the level is impossible, which made it an excellent puzzle level. Very nice work!
IchoTolot's "Awakening of Aggressions"
Another good level. It manages to keep the entropy high while at the same time if you pay attention to little details you can easily and logically deduce the solution. I also like that trick used at the beginning to free both blockers, it's something I have never seen and it's a pretty cool trick :)
mobius's "Temple of Doom"
Very nice 2-of-everything puzzle. None of the solutions are easy to figure out, but the skillset allows enough flexibility for multiple approaches. Nice job!
Quote from: Nessy on October 26, 2017, 05:55:20 PM
Yep just as I predicted: I over-complicated the heck out of it :evil:. Sorry about that. I went back and I believe I found the true intended way of getting through the terrain. The replay is attached below.
Spoiler
The terrain is excellent the way it is laid out, as you can figure out how to navigate the level by paying attention to how the crystals are positioned.
Yep, that is totally intentional. Nicely done! :D
Ok, if nobody speaks against it now, updates have closed and until the end of the month you still have time to solve the levels. After that voting will start. :)
For the voting:
We've got 7 R1 levels, 5 R3 levels and only 2 R2 levels.
The normal procedure is to cut every rule down to 2 levels before merging the levels for the final vote rounds.
But as we've got only 2 R2 levels and 7 R1 levels, I wonder if it's better to cut the R2 down to 1 levels and the R1 only to 3 levels, as otherwise R2 would atomatically qualify under the top 6.
I want to have some opinions here:
Proceed as usual: Cut every rule down to 2 levels before merging the levels for the final vote rounds.
Alter the process: Cut the R2 down to 1 levels and the R1 only to 3 levels.
What would you prefer? :)
Let's do option #2.
I also say option #2 where we cut down R2 to 1 level and R1 to 3 levels. That would create a better balance.
I mentioned that I was going to do a stream on the contest levels today, but I have something that came up, so I won't be able to do the stream after all. I'm sorry for announcing this last-minute, but I hope I can stream them after the contest is over!
Just in case anyone missed Arty's stream of the contest levels
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/186601074 (Neo Lemmix levels)
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/186608617 (Lix levels)
Thanks Flopsy! I'll also be porting them to Youtube in the near future