This topic is for discussion of the levels, feedback, posting replays, etc. For creators wishing to post updates, or if you're looking for the latest updates, please check this topic (http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2225.0) instead.
So, entries have closed, it's time to play! :)
The submissions are (as usual, alphabetical by author name):
<V4> "Safe Descent" by bsmith (NeoLemmix)
<V4> "Mind the gap!" by Crane (NeoLemmix)
<V1> "Cogopolis" by DynaLem (NeoLemmix)
<V2> "Parking Garage" by Geoffster (NeoLemmix)
<V3> "Las Ranas Hermanas" by geoo (Lix)
<V1> "The Adventures Of Lemdiana Jones" by IchoTolot (NeoLemmix)
<V1> "House on a Hill" by mobius (NeoLemmix)
<V1> "Altruism" by Nepster (Lix)
NOTES:
IchoTolot's level has a custom music file to accompany it. This should be placed in the same folder as CustLemmixNeo.exe.
Nepster has recommended that his level may be more difficult on the 2015-08-09 release due to physics changes, and an older release should be used if possible. Geoo recommends the opposite for his level.
The levels are in an attached ZIP. To play the levels:
NeoLemmix: Run NeoCustLemmix, press F6 on the title screen, and select the LVL file. Alternatively, open them in the editor, then press F2 for playtest mode (requires a copy of NeoCustLemmix in the same folder as the editor).
Lix: Copy the level into the /levels/single/ subfolder, then select them from the "Single Player" menu.
Update phase will end at whatever comes last - 22/08/15, or when 72 hours have passed since the last time an update was posted (currently 22/08/15 15:50). The voting phase will begin about 5 days after the update phase ends.
As a reminder, the prizes available for this contest are:
The prizes available for this contest are:
- US $12.50
- One and a half month's advertising in the forum's news ticker for a project you are involved in, whether lemmings-related or not, and whether free or not
- Early access to the Ghosts gimmick in NeoLemmix <May be chosen by both winners>
- Your choice for the next contest's rules (within reason)
Note that in the case of someone who already has a one-month advertisement on hold, if they win the one-and-a-half-month one here, it is entirely up to them to choose which order they use them in.
Attachment updated 20/08/15 02:57
My solution to "Safe Descent".
Note that "Cogopolis" requires the Clockwork tile-set, so if you don't have it installed, the game will crash.
Las Ranas Hermanas is solvable with any version 2015-01-25 or later. There will be a new version of lix out soon that will incidentally eliminate some potential backroutes.
Some notes: My level has a tight time limit, in the aim of eliminating at least some backroutes. Sorry to everyone for that.
So you should use a version of Lix that does not nuke the lixes when the time runs out, but closes the exit instead. This is to ensure the time limit is the same for everyone. If you use 2015-01-25 or newer you should be fine. But even if you find routes that exceed the time limit but otherwise would solve the level, I'd be interested in seeing them. This is because once the new Lix version is released, it will eliminate some backroutes. I might consider removing the time limit once that version is out.
Nepster: I just wanted to note. 2015-08-09 and later have physics changes like the new basher and digger. All versions between 2015-01-25 and 2015-07-07 however have the same single player physics. Replays recorded with any of these versions can be viewed with 2015-07-07. However replays recorded with 2015-07-07 will not be viewable with version 2015-06-08 or earlier, so I suggest players to use some version between 2015-01-25 and 2015-06-08 rather than 2015-07-07.
Quote from: Crane on August 10, 2015, 06:08:33 AM
Note that "Cogopolis" requires the Clockwork tile-set, so if you don't have it installed, the game will crash.
Recent versions of both the editor and NeoCustLemmix come with the Clockwork set (and the other three LPIV sets, for that matter) included.
QuoteNepster: I just wanted to note. All versions between 2015-01-25 and 2015-07-07 have the same single player physics, while 2015-08-09 and later have physics changes like the new basher and digger. Replays recorded with any of these versions can be viewed with 2015-07-07. However replays recorded with 2015-07-07 will not be viewable with version 2015-06-08 or earlier, so I suggest players to use some version between 2015-01-25 and 2015-06-08 rather than 2015-07-07.
I think it's better not to be encouraging players to have lots of different versions set up, isn't it...? But Nepster did mention the physics changes in the *latest* version could be problematic; and since the level was designed before it was released, the note mentions the latest version
at the time the level was designed.
Well all I'm saying is that it doesn't matter if you use 2015-01-25 or 2015-06-08, because they are mutually compatible in singleplayer. 2015-07-07 wasn't an official release so I discourage from using it for recording replays (for viewing replays it's not an issue).
Nepster discouraged using 2015-08-09 for his level, thus I suggest players to use 2015-01-25 or 2015-06-08.
For my level, it works perfectly fine and if you want consistency, players can use 2015-01-25 or 2015-06-08.
The release that will make a notable (positive) difference to the level isn't even out yet, so there's no point using the newer versions for my level at this point.
Ok solved the NeoLemmix part and tried out the lix levels, but I need a break for today now.
Attached the solutions for the NeoLemmix levels and my best try (saving 33 Lix instead of the 34 required) for geoo's level. (Gotta get that last pesky Lix hopefully tomorrow)
Comments:
Safe Descent (bsmith):
Spoiler
The level looks nice, but I hope I just horribly backrouted this level, because it would be too easy if this was the intended way.
Mind the Gap (Crane):
Spoiler
Looks good and has a non fiddly clean solution. Overall good level.
Cognopolis (DynaLem):
Spoiler
First you think ohh my this is going to be annoying, but false. The solution falls together in a clean non-fiddly way and it looks very nice. A very fun to play level.
Parking Garage (Geoffster):
Spoiler
Nice theme and the mechanics in this one are really creative. Also even if you think the solution is trivial.....nope needed a a bit of rethinking to get everything right. Great job!
House on a Hill (möbius):
Spoiler
I has a little Deja vu at first because of the rock-lvel in MobiLems :P The solution came rather quickly, as I used this trick tons of times in other packs in the recent past. It also looks quite nice.
Las Ranas Hermanas (geoo) so far:
Spoiler
I really had to get into the Lix mechanics and given tools to be able to try out my plan for this one and after an hour I finally got used to them. I had to rethink a lot and finally came up with a plan that NEARLY works. I lost one Lix too much and I bet there is a method in which the frogs get one less Lix, because I don't see another way for the middle obsticle (if the right miner can survive some way? but I don't think so)
Quote from: namida on August 10, 2015, 04:30:41 AM
IchoTolot's level has a custom music file to accompany it. This should be placed in the same folder as CustLemmixNeo.exe.
I think it just must be in the same folder as the level itself, cause I can hear it with my CustNeoLemmix player and the music is only in the folder with the level.
My thoughts:
bsmith's "Safe Descent"
Pretty sure I've found a major backroute on this one.
Crane's "Mind the Gap"
Might also be a backroute. The hardest part is working out how to get out of the starting area; once that's done the rest is fairly simple.
Geoffster's "Parking Garage"
I tried this one for a while, but couldn't solve it yet. My best attempt solution would've worked, except for lemmings not being able to step up from underneath the staircases.
I haven't yet looked at any of the others beyond a quick glance.
Just to clarify the confusion with the Lix versions: There are two very different solutions that I know of.
- One requires the old basher/miner/digger-mechanics and will certainly not work in 2015-08-09. However it should be robust enough to work in any of the other versions (though I only checked it with 2015-06-08).
- The other solution is independent of the precise basher/miner/digger-mechanics and should does work as well in 2015-08-09. I haven't had time to confirm this yet, but will do so this evening.
EDIT: Solvability of Altruism with 2015-08-09 confirmed.
I only solved one level so far, but all look very nice, and very tough.
Safe Decent:
Spoiler
Feels like a major backroute for this level. If it is; the otherwise intended solution I don't have a clue for yet.
[spoiler="Safe Descent" by bsmith]Given the other comments, this should be pretty similar to other solutions.[/spoiler]
[spoiler="Mind the gap!" by Crane]Only played V1. The first half is very good. The (now likely fixed) second half less so.[/spoiler]
[spoiler="Cogopolis" by DynaLem]Solid level. I am wondering whether 100% is possible with a little precise timing at the very beginning? Otherwise a fun and not overly hard level.[/spoiler]
[spoiler="Parking Garage" by Geoffster]Excellent level with a wonderful solution! Apart from geoo's level the hardest one.[/spoiler]
[spoiler="Las Ranas Hermanas" by geoo]Not yet solved. 1 miner and about 10 seconds short (no replay).[/spoiler]
[spoiler="The Adventures Of Lemdiana Jones" by IchoTolot]Nice looking and huge level (both typically IchoTolot). Especially the first half of the solution was very good.[/spoiler]
"House on a Hill" by möbius]Solid level, which has a 100% solution.[/spoiler]
[spoiler= Spoiler for both "Parking Garage" and "The Adventures Of Lemdiana Jones"
Interesting that both levels feature the same trick, one with a basher and one with a miner.
Remark: All replays are recorded with NeoLemmix V1.35-C.
Solved one more.
DynaLem's "Cogopolis"
A very nice level; not challenging but fun to play and does require some planning ahead.
Quote from: NepsterSolid level. I am wondering whether 100% is possible with a little precise timing at the very beginning? Otherwise a fun and not overly hard level.
It is possible. The only reason my solution doesn't save 100% is because I placed the blocker on the steel, instead of slightly to the left of it; by the time I realised this could lead to a 100% solution, I didn't want to completely restart the level from the beginning. There might be some optimization I missed, but it'd seem 100% requires all the skills except for one climber and the bomber.
By the way, I notice that so far, Rondo Alla Turca is a very common music choice in this contest. :O
EDIT: And one more!
Geoffster's "Parking Garage"
A very clever puzzle here! At first I thought it must rely on very good timing and interaction between multiple bashers, but the eventual solution was very tidy and clever! I did have one basher left over, though...
EDIT: Reuploaded replay to work with V2. The method is still the same.
Very impressive levels so far. I think it's safe to say this was a
very good choice for this contest's rules! :)
Solutions for updated levels (except for "Parking Garage", where my first solution should still work).
[spoiler="Safe Descent" by bsmith]Only minor modifications needed.[/spoiler]
[spoiler="Mind the gap!" by Crane]Second half fells much more natural now, but the first half is still the most impressive part of this level.[/spoiler]
I had a look again at the three that have been updated; I'll get around to the ones I haven't yet looked at later today. :)
Updated my replay to Parking Garage in the above post; since the overall approach I used still works.
bsmith's "Safe Descent"
Very little change needed here.
Crane's "Mind the Gap!"
Only a small change needed to the first part; substituting a miner with a basher because I needed the miner later (edit: although now that I think about it, I could've used one less miner elsewhere anyway, at the cost of a fair bit of extra time taken). Some more significant changes needed in the second part. Good level. :)
And for the last two NeoLemmix ones...
IchoTolot's "The Adventures of Lemdiana Jones"
I'm not sure how well I thought the music fits the level; but the level itself is excellent! I did expect this level to be a lot harder considering who the author was; but while the difficulty wasn't as high as expected, the quality definitely was. Great level!
mobius's "House on a Hill"
This level wasn't overly great IMO. It was mostly a matter of working out the exact precisely-needed points in a solution that wasn't too unobvious overall.
I'll get around to the Lix ones soon. :)
My solution for Safe Descent v3 (with rr99)
Haven't solved the others yet.
bsmith's "Safe Descent" (V3)
The same general idea still works; once again, it's just a matter of changing the exact details of the execution.
Released version 3 of "Mind the gap!" - if anyone wants any clues... Nepster is the closest to my intended solution.
And here's my solution to "Parking Garage". Some pretty nice tricks there!
Just managed to do "The Adventures of Lemdiana Jones".
Spoiler
The start contains a brilliant red herring in that you think you have to dig down that crystal column just prior to the drop, but instead you need to mine that way to nick the column opposite, otherwise all you can think is "how the hell do I get the lemmings out?". After that, everything falls into place, although I pretty much had to learn how to use Cloners on the fly - what a wonderfully creative skill!
"Don't call me Junior!" - not sure if the music fits the level, even if the snake designs are pretty cool, but it's still a nice tune to listen to!
I will admit that the second half of the level is mostly designed for the excuse of having 5 of everything (other than floaters, builders and diggers), with the main meat being the first half. Still, I'm glad people like the beginning of the level! I hope that my one-way arrows aren't making it messy.
Nepster's "Altruism"
Hm. I'm not sure how I felt about this level; especially under Lix where I'm not as used to the fine control features (does it have frame-perfect ones?). Although I have no idea what the solution could possibly be on the newer versions where basher staircases are not possible...
That leaves just geoo's level left to beat. I did have a quick look at it, and have no ideas; I haven't made any attempts at actually solving it yet though.
@namida: Lix has the "zzz"-button, which slows the game to about two frames per second. With a little experience this allows for almost all frame-precise actions (especially in combination with the pause-button).
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. :)
bsmith's "Safe Descent" (V4)
Alright, the original backroute seems to be completely gone now. This new solution requires a fair bit more thinking; still not overly hard, but a nice level. :)
I've had some more tries at geoo's level, but I haven't been able to solve it yet. It would appear that it either relies on very good timing, or some detail of Lix mechanics that I'm not fully aware of...
QuoteI've had some more tries at geoo's level, but I haven't been able to solve it yet. It would appear that it either relies on very good timing, or some detail of Lix mechanics that I'm not fully aware of...
Spoiler
One thing to be aware of is the precise trigger area of the frogs, it's narrow and shallow (open the level in the editor to see it). Apart from that, there's no lix-specific or otherwise unobvious behaviour needed. There are two precision moves near the beginning, but while obviously some timing is involved, you always get quite a bit of leeway.
Btw, please remind me at the end of the playing phase to post my solution.
<V4> "Safe Descent" by bsmith (NeoLemmix)Spoiler
My solution still just goes straight down, though it's a bit more elaborate than before now.
Spoiler
First part is a lovely puzzle, the second part feels a bit like filler and spoils the level a little bit imo.
Spoiler
I really like the idea here, but I didn't enjoy it as much as I should have for various reasons. (Well I kinda did but then it got a bit frustrating when I had to repeat everything a few times). One is, the triggers are small and in a colour that's very prevalent in the rest of the level, so I missed one of them. The required tweak was really minor, but due to its length the level punishes mistakes early in the level very hard and I had to replay most of it again. Then I ran short of bashers (as I saved the exploder), and I realized there are a few spots where depending on the exact basher placement, you need 1 or 2 bashers to get through. With that in mind I think either the number of bashers could be more generous, or tight with those ambiguous spots eliminated.
Spoiler
Easily my favourite here, and that's not because the competition isn't good. Amazing level which in principle can almost be solved just looking at it, and execution then is a triviality. The terrain in the middle is structured and simple and yet it's traversed so many times. Very elegant. When I had worked out the main solution, the last thing to solve was how to get the climber home which took me longer to spot than it should have. Only nag is the time limit which is completely pointless here. It doesn't eliminate any backroutes afaik, and only might make you restart the level to do it over for no good reason. Would you mind if I ported the level to Lix, and added it to the Community Pack (with appropriate credit, of course)?
Spoiler
Solid level, there are a few things to put in place though it didn't take me that long to solve. I definitely enjoyed playing this one a lot. The cloners were new to me, I can see the potential in them, though I don't remember applying them to workers specifically.
Spoiler
Pretty straight-forward after having seen variations of this many times. At first I thought I have to set up some complicated blocker release gadgets, but then I saw I had walkers. Looks nice though.
Spoiler
Cool trippy design. A bit technical for my taste, a lot of execution tricks in there.
Ok more replays of updated versions!
Safe Descent:
Spoiler
Finally I see a challenge! Now it's a nice little level.
Mind the Gap:
Spoiler
Little bit of finetuning needed, but my opinion has barely changed.
Parking Garage:
Spoiler
This solution (hopefully intended) is even better and cleaner than my first one! Exellent level!
lasranas:
Spoiler
Now without a time crunch! Had to rework my solution though, because of the extra frog. But now the level is a lot better than before! (Did not use the left steel, too! :P)
For Nepsters level: I looked over geoo's shoulder as he solved it (I also got his replay here), but it's his solution so it would be wrong from me to also post it.
I feel like I've failed because of it being 'filler' rather than a challenge in itself. Yes, I focus on the negative - it's what I do and how I work. But I think I need to take a leave of absence; I'm sorry. Perfection or naught; nothing in between.
Filler might not be the right word, but you said it yourself, the second part was tacked on as an afterthought and when I read that in your post it immediately made sense to me. There is one somewhat tricky part to work out, namely, how do you turn the crowd at the right. But most of the skill placements fall into place because they can't go anywhere else. So the second part feels more like a set of little tasks than like another puzzle as a whole. I guess after the excellent first part that was a bit of a let-down to me, especially considering I'm a fan of short levels. The part left of the gap is small and dense of ideas, and the part right of the gap is quite big and spread out. The left part on its own stands as an excellent level to me.
If you're about perfection or naught, then you're gonna have a hard time because in reality there is no such thing as perfection. :)
Has anyone else tried Las Ranas Hermanas? Or is everyone wary of trying out Lix?
Oh, by the way IchoTolot, you posted the actual levels, not the replays.
I'll just remind you of in the first level contest - you felt like giving up because of backroutes, but in the end, your level won the contest. :)
You're right namida. It is unfortunately part of my nature, and I apologise for my frustration being so visible to others - it's not really fair on them. And I'm too passionate for my own good.
Quote from: Crane on August 18, 2015, 01:28:54 AM
Oh, by the way IchoTolot, you posted the actual levels, not the replays.
Ty, fixed that! Sometimes I've got my mind elsewhere................:-[
I've tried more on Las Ranas Hermanas, but still no luck. Most of my attempts end up losing too many lemmings before they get anywhere useful.
Took me a while to solve this time, but...
Crane's "Mind the gap!" (V4)
Wow. This level shot up a LOT in difficulty with the latest update! In the end, I needed almost every skill... It's a very good level!
Not my intended solution, but nice one! I wonder what others will find.
When it's over, I'll post my intended solution if no-one finds it. A theme with my levels is that I try to avoid tricks and gimmicks and otherwise offer a very clean solution.
Here is my solution for Mind the Gap v4.
Crane's "Mind the gap!" (V4)
This one required a lot of thinking. The solution I found seems pretty clean. I had 1 climber left over, which was probably intended to be used near the beginning (to set up the blocker on the top-left ledge?)
If you time things perfectly, it is possible to get down to the bottom-left ledge using only 1 miner, 1 bomber, and 1 basher, but it involves some luck (I could only pull it off 1/3 of the time.)
The level had been attached to this post as well as the replay; removed it.
Almost there with the intended solution - a couple of tricks in that replay are correct. Well done Geoffster. I think only one or two minor changes are needed now. Yeah, that Climber is used to place that Blocker on the top left, although if you're able to do it without a Climber, I won't fault you for that! Extra points at the end of the round!
Spoiler
I think if I can fix that mine/bomb/bash thing and do something about miners going under that small one-way wall, I'm all set!
Update phase has now closed. Voting phase will open in a few days. :)
Ah rats - I hoped to update my level one last time. Oh well. Nevertheless, here is the intended solution (as far as I know, it works in all versions of the level):
Attached is a screenshot of the latest version of my level and replay of my intended solution (should work with any version that has the new digger animation).