Just seen this topic (Icho linked to it from the 20th skill discussion). Wow! It's eye-opening to say the least.
Just to weigh in on a few of these points:
first of all: a generic title . This just gives me the impression that the creator merely created something random without putting much effort into it.
Probably agree on this. I put a lot of thought into my level titles, and I always try to make sure they either allude to the solution in some way, or are at least suitably decorative.
levels with an unnecessarily "unergonomic" terrain shape: If you constantly need additional builders just to cross a couple more pixels, rather than the gaps being measured out for a specific number of builders; or if you have to build close to oddly shaped ceilings where the lemming is constantly turning around and coming back just to add a couple more bricks, etc.
Agree on this, too. I think the only exception I'd make to this is when it's a level with precise timing, and the extra few pixels is needed to slow a lemming down - or, if the lem needs to turn around and you need a partial bridge to achieve that. But yeah, when it just feels like the author hasn't even tried to measure it out it is quite annoying.
relative pixel precision": Pixel precision is fine as long as it affects single lemmings... The problem arises when two or more lemmings have to be in very specific spots relative to each other, so the skill assignment becomes a game of Mikado.
Totally disagree with this. Having to keep close track of two or more lemmings at the same time can be great fun (as long as you know what the solution is!), and is very satisfying to get right.
Levels with an abundance of skills rarely feel rewarding to me, because whenever I solve one of these it feels like I couldn't really fail on that level to begin with
I'd say this one depends very much on the design of the level. I particularly enjoy playing through easy X-of-everythings, but more so when the design of the level is such that you have to think your way around a specific set of obstacles. A good example off the top of my head would be
Konbanwa Lemming San - a much easier version of
It's Hero Time, sure, but the layout of the level and the situation that it presents makes you think. Even with the abundance of skills, it's not a gimme by any means.
Don't underestimate the power of an X-of-everything level to
welcome players into your pack by offering them the opportunity to
create a solution.
Icho says "That's the way of video games for me: Start out easy then get harder and harder until the player has mastered the game." But we're not making a game; we're making expansion packs for a game that already exists. Everyone who plays our packs is at least intermediate level already, and most are experts. Why are we still clinging onto the idea that every pack should have difficulty ranks and that the first should be beginner level?
This is one I feel quite strongly about:
Firstly, I'd say that this is totally down to the designer of the pack: if someone wishes to build a beginner-style rank into their pack, there could be many reasons for doing this. Maybe they want to show the pack to someone who has never played
Lemmings before, or at least not for a long time, and they want the person (or people) to be able to get some enjoyment from playing it. Or maybe they just want to try their hand at making
good easier levels (which I think can be just as much of a challenge as making difficult ones).
Furthermore, even expert players want to be able to relax and enjoy the game now and again and not be bombarded with an endless stream of impenetrably difficult puzzles.
Whenever I play
Super Mario Bros. after not having played for a while, I
always start from World 1, Level 1. And I enjoy it immensely: it gives me a chance to warm up and get back into my game before taking on the more challenging levels. And I'm damn good at Mario!
Similarly, when it comes to
Lemmings (sure, I'm by no means the best in terms of solving puzzles, but I
can beat the original game) - sometimes it's nice just to make your way through a beginner rank for the Fun of it!
Also, I'd say this is particularly true when playing a brand new pack - it can be useful to have the opportunity to play through some easier levels by that author: it's a way of just getting to know their style, flavour, and what they're about when it comes to general design.
I've had the idea recently of going through as many packs on the forum as I can and just playing the first rank; mainly because I've tasked myself with getting good at making easier levels and so it's a research thing ostensibly, but also because if a designer can do
easy levels well, I'll be that much more likely to want to see what their more challenging levels are like.
I disagree with that. My own packs are intended to be games that can stand alone. Technically there are expansions, but even a new player should be able to get into it and be able to solve at least a part of it. They should be able to learn the game even if they only have my pack.
Yes, exactly! It's good to know that someone who makes levels as difficult as yours also has an appreciation for the other end of the spectrum.
- Unnessesary tight timers.
I still haven't really got my head around the community's general feelings about timers, this one could probably be a topic in itself. I love the feeling of getting those last few lemmings in just before the time runs out, always have done. I thought timers in lemmings levels were a staple of the game, but I'm learning otherwise on this forum...
A number of people have said things like "timers are only justified when the solution demands it". But... if the timer is
there, then the solution demands it! i.e. you have to work out a way to not only solve the level, but do it in a timely fashion. I have absolutely
no issue with timers in levels whatsoever. If I solve a level and then time runs out, I just think: oh, OK, I need to release the crowd earlier, or maybe: ah, I need to make sure I assign the skills such that the solution happens at pace. I know people on here
hate this, but for me it's a perfectly acceptable part of the game of
Lemmings.
I don't really have turn-offs, as such, when it comes to levels. I've noticed that I tend to skip over levels that are too difficult early on in a pack, as I generally like to make my way through the first few levels in a pack quite quickly. I always appreciate it when level designers give you the opportunity to do this.