V6 grenader observations:
It's very hard to go down anymore when throwing right against a wall. I think it's only 2 pixels now. Also in general the digging upwards/downwards capabilities took a hit, they are still good/effective though!
This is a great point, as it used to be one of the main ways Grenaders could abused for backroutes. If this use as a surrogate non-lethal Bomber "in place" (instead of throwing) is now severely hindered,
that is going to eliminate a huge portion of the former potential backroutes in my book! Most importantly all my levels could be easily adjusted terrain wise --> all behaviors from before are still there and effective. Just to a lesser ammount and when the goal was to decrease the level-breaking potential I think this has been accomplished based on my first observations!
And this, simultaneously, shows that the Grenader is still a unique and valuable skill.
So it's not only no longer as prone to backroutes as it used to be, it even adds tremendous and unique incremental value to the game! I haven't yet had time to try out the new grenader, but I have an observation to make that's general and not tied to the specifics of the skill.
A new skill being backroute-prone is a good reason to tinker with its specifics, while it's still in the development phase and we have the opportunity to do so. It is a very bad reason to consider culling the skill altogether.
I wholeheartedly agree! And I believe this "tinkering with the specifics" is precisely what we have done with the Grenader now.Now the crater is (as far as I can tell?) the same size as that of the Bomber, or just barely larger. Thus, it shouldn't be any more prone to creating backroutes than the Bomber.
Bomber backroutes can be more easily prevented by adjusting the save requirement; but in turn, Grenader backroutes can be easily prevented by a) making the ceiling or another obstacle too low to even throw the grenade in the first place, and by b) using what IchoTolot described to prevent a Grenader abuse in terms of "I'll just bomb straight through the ground where the lemming is currently standing, without actually losing the lemming".
Since this "surrogate bombing" no longer works, and the chunk of terrain taken out by the Grenader is considerably smaller now than it used to be, thus preventing "surrogate Bashing through one-way arrows from the opposite side" as well,
I am convinced the two major prior sources of potential Grenader backroutes have been eliminated.Adding its unique new versatility on top of that, as IchoTolot has demonstrated in countless of his advanced levels with indeed very specific, non-open-ended solutions, I think there is absolutely no reason anymore to not include the Grenader into NL!
And in case double negatives are easily misunderstood:
The Grenader should make it into NL as it currently is! (Voice your support if you agree with this, since it currently seems to be the skill in most "danger", in comparison.
But as I said, I don't believe the formerly valid reasons for doubt about this skill apply any longer, thanks to the recent physics changes.)