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Author Topic: Orig/OhNo-style styles  (Read 565 times)

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Offline WillLem

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Orig/OhNo-style styles
« on: April 15, 2024, 05:48:04 AM »
Which of the custom style sets are closest in character and quality to the orig and ohno styles? Those have a very specific vibe to them which is difficult to replicate, it would be good to see some other styles which aim for a similar aesthetic.
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Offline Pieuw

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Re: Orig/OhNo-style styles
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2024, 11:19:32 AM »
I'd say the specific vibe of the original styles is mainly due to:

1/ A limited color palette.
2/ Not too detailed pieces that can easily be combined to make larger structures.

The original tilesets were like a toolbox to build anything. The feeling of the Tribes tilesets was quite different, probably because they contain whole recognizable objects as terrain pieces.
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Offline mobius

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Re: Orig/OhNo-style styles
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2024, 01:30:48 AM »
Quote from: Pieuw on April 17, 2024, 11:19:32 AM
I'd say the specific vibe of the original styles is mainly due to:

1/ A limited color palette.
2/ Not too detailed pieces that can easily be combined to make larger structures.

The original tilesets were like a toolbox to build anything. The feeling of the Tribes tilesets was quite different, probably because they contain whole recognizable objects as terrain pieces.

Agreed. And paradoxically this is why imo the L2 styles have much less usability, they have charm but they feel less long lasting durability. What makes the L1 styles so memorable and diverse is precisely their vagueness and abstract quality. I remember wondering as a child, for example "is that a well?" in the dirt tileset, or "is this a factory or something else" about the marble tileset.
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Offline 92Dexter11

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Re: Orig/OhNo-style styles
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2024, 08:25:37 PM »
Quote from: WillLem on April 15, 2024, 05:48:04 AM
Which of the custom style sets are closest in character and quality to the orig and ohno styles? Those have a very specific vibe to them which is difficult to replicate, it would be good to see some other styles which aim for a similar aesthetic.


It's a funny coincidence that you should mention this, as I've recently started to create a new style pack that aims to mimic the style of the original/ohno aesthetics.

From what I'm able to understand, each of the orginal/ohno worlds have a palette of 8 colours max, as well as several (6?) 'default' colours. These default colours seem to be constant across all worlds and are used for things like lemmings and the HUD.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


With this in mind, I've started working on several styles that follow this guideline - no more than 8 unique colours maximum, in addition to the 6 default colours.

Here's a sneak peak:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Offline Pieuw

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Re: Orig/OhNo-style styles
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2024, 10:09:12 AM »
@92Dexter11 Looks GOOD! :thumbsup:
I don't really know why it seems to be a bit more "high res" than the original tilesets. This may be due to the gradient effect on some elements? I'm looking forward to see more of your work. What other style are you working on? :D
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Offline WillLem

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Re: Orig/OhNo-style styles
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2024, 11:02:36 AM »
Quote from: 92Dexter11 on April 21, 2024, 08:25:37 PM
From what I'm able to understand, each of the orginal/ohno worlds have a palette of 8 colours max, as well as several (6?) 'default' colours. These default colours seem to be constant across all worlds and are used for things like lemmings and the HUD.

Interesting, I didn't realise that's how these tiles were limited. These limitations seem to have in fact been ideal for shaping their creation.

Quote from: 92Dexter11 on April 21, 2024, 08:25:37 PM
With this in mind, I've started working on several styles that follow this guideline - no more than 8 unique colours maximum, in addition to the 6 default colours.

Your style looks fantastic, there is a lot of detail and a very clear theme. However, I wouldn't necessarily consider it to be in the same visual style of the orig and ohno tiles; it's much more detailed and almost seems higher resolution, which I imagine was no easy task with the aforementioned colour limitations.

It comes closer than most, though, to be fair. I haven't yet seen a custom tile set that could absolutely be mistaken for an original.
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Offline 92Dexter11

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Re: Orig/OhNo-style styles
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2024, 01:19:20 PM »
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Looks GOOD! :thumbsup:
Quote
Your style looks fantastic, there is a lot of detail and a very clear theme.

Thank you so much!

Quote
I don't really know why it seems to be a bit more "high res" than the original tilesets. This may be due to the gradient effect on some elements?
Quote
However, I wouldn't necessarily consider it to be in the same visual style of the orig and ohno tiles; it's much more detailed and almost seems higher resolution, which I imagine was no easy task with the aforementioned colour limitations.

It looks high-res because this particular tileset is heavily inspired by the 'crystal' world, in the sense that it's mainly all one colour, which allows for much more depth in terms of gradients. The other styles I'm working on won't be as high-res, since I'm using more varied colours in the palette which will mean the gradients won't be as deep. :thumbsup:

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What other style are you working on? :D

The other styles are still very early in development. Currently, I'm working on white-marble style castle/palace, similar to the original marble/pillar styles but with a much different palette.

I also have plans for a more naturalistic type of style, similar to orig-dirt, except with a blue/yellowish colourscheme with red leaves (think autumnal).

The other styles are still in the 'ideas' phase of development - I haven't fully decided what I want for those styles, or what colour palette to use for them. Any suggestions would be welcome! ;)
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Offline WillLem

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Re: Orig/OhNo-style styles
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2024, 09:25:57 PM »
Quote from: 92Dexter11 on April 22, 2024, 01:19:20 PM
The other styles are still very early in development.

Your ideas sound fab, and based on the quality of your existing tilesets (particularly the chalk set) I'm very much looking forward to seeing your work!

Quote from: 92Dexter11 on April 22, 2024, 01:19:20 PM
Any suggestions would be welcome! ;)

This is a tough one. I'm usually full of ideas, but when it comes to tilesets I can't seem to think of anything both original and worthwhile.

I think a really good beach/tropical theme could be good, but it's difficult to come up with abstract shapes. The tendency is to go full palm trees and beach balls!

It's like Pieuw said, the original tiles are a toolbox to build anything. What's needed, then, is perhaps to think more elemental and abstract with it rather than coming up with a very specific theme that immediately conjures up pre-existing shapes and images.
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Offline 92Dexter11

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Re: Orig/OhNo-style styles
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2024, 02:19:16 PM »
Just looked into the palettes for the original tilesets some more. I forgot to take into account that the original colours use 4096 colours. :forehead: This basically means that the RGB values of each colour are all divisible by 16.

So now I need to go through and modify the colours of all the terrain pieces and objects to convert them into 4096 colours. :forehead::forehead::forehead:


Quote
I think a really good beach/tropical theme could be good, but it's difficult to come up with abstract shapes. The tendency is to go full palm trees and beach balls!

I did think about a beach themed style, or possibly a desert/sandy themed one. I'll workshop it. :thumbsup:
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Offline namida

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Re: Orig/OhNo-style styles
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2024, 08:16:29 PM »
The restrictions in DOS are:
- Each individual RGB value must be divisible by 4 (not necessarily by 16).
- The style can pick up to eight custom colors subject to that rule.
- There are also eight fixed colors. Black from the fixed colors gets treated as transparent in most contexts (the Crystal style has solid black terrain by also including black as a custom color). The last fixed color is not actually fixed; rather it's a duplicate of the first custom color.
- Terrain pieces (across the whole set, not per piece) may use only the 8 custom colors, plus transparent.
- Objects may use all 16 of the colors (subject to black = transparent).
- The skill panel and other UI, as well as lemming sprites, may only use the fixed colors (including the one copied from the variable colors). Some elements / sprites can only use the first four fixed colors. There are a very small number (eg. Burner) that can use the custom colors too.
- Builder bricks and the minimap use the fixed color that's copied from custom.
- When using a vgaspec, the custom colors are replaced with the vgaspec's palette. A vgaspec may have 7 colors plus transparent in its palette.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2024, 08:21:52 PM by namida »
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Offline 92Dexter11

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Re: Orig/OhNo-style styles
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2024, 09:43:18 PM »
Quote from: namida on May 02, 2024, 08:16:29 PM
The restrictions in DOS are:
- Each individual RGB value must be divisible by 4 (not necessarily by 16).
- The style can pick up to eight custom colors subject to that rule.
- There are also eight fixed colors. Black from the fixed colors gets treated as transparent in most contexts (the Crystal style has solid black terrain by also including black as a custom color). The last fixed color is not actually fixed; rather it's a duplicate of the first custom color.
- Terrain pieces (across the whole set, not per piece) may use only the 8 custom colors, plus transparent.
- Objects may use all 16 of the colors (subject to black = transparent).
- The skill panel and other UI, as well as lemming sprites, may only use the fixed colors (including the one copied from the variable colors). Some elements / sprites can only use the first four fixed colors. There are a very small number (eg. Burner) that can use the custom colors too.
- Builder bricks and the minimap use the fixed color that's copied from custom.
- When using a vgaspec, the custom colors are replaced with the vgaspec's palette. A vgaspec may have 7 colors plus transparent in its palette.

Thanks for sharing! :thumbsup:

I think my new tilesets all follow those rules! :thumbsup:

Quote
Terrain pieces (across the whole set, not per piece) may use only the 8 custom colors, plus transparent.

I went back through the original/ohno tilesets, and noticed this rule myself recently. It caused me to have a massive freakout, since I initially violated this rule pretty extensively - my styles' terrain used a combination of the 8 custom colours, plus the fixed colours, which was only true of objects, not terrain.

I had to go back through and do an extensive palette reduction and modification of all the terrain pieces, a process which took several hours. Fortunately, I was able to fix this mistake. The style pack will be released very soon, likely within the next few days - I'm just finishing off a few demonstration levels to go along with it, and tan x dx will also be contributing a few levels.

This was a really fun challenge, I hope you guys enjoy it!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Offline namida

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Re: Orig/OhNo-style styles
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2024, 11:21:39 PM »
If you want to get technical - using the fixed colors in terrain works visually, but not physics-wise (the pixels using the fixed colors will be treated as non solid).
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Offline Pieuw

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Re: Orig/OhNo-style styles
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2024, 03:36:12 PM »
@92Dexter11 The preview screenshot looks gorgeous :lem-shocked:
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Offline WillLem

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Re: Orig/OhNo-style styles
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2024, 01:27:29 AM »
@Dexter - that last one (the pillar one) looks incredible, probably the closest thing I've seen to an OG style so far. It almost looks like it could have been one of the vgaspec levels.

My own style creation skills tend towards remixing/tweaking what's already there rather than creating something entirely from scratch; I admire anyone who can work from a completely blank palette. I can do that with music, but even then I tend to use familiar themes and melodies, and like to stick to tried-and-tested instrument groupings/voices.

Anyway, here are some ideas I had whilst I was driving the other day; I thought I'd share them here in case it sparks anyone's artistic engines. Pieuw's comment about the OG styles being a "toolbox to build anything" has been the inspiration here, and seems like it would be a good thing to keep in mind throughout creation of any lemmings style.

Plasticine Factory - the idea here would very much be abstract shapes and blobs, but long thin pipes of plasticine could also work, as long as they taper at the end like plasticine snakes tend to. These could be complemented by more generic "factory / laboratory"-type items like metal/plastic tubes, grilles, etc.

Gold / Treasure - think a mixture of ohno_brick and orig_crystal, but with gold bullion, gold chains, ornamental spindles, coins, and of course jewels and other items. Bonus points if the items aren't too specific, and can be joined together to make larger items.

Glass / Ice - this would be a mixture of spiky, jagged shapes and smooth curves. Use of semi-transparency could make this look quite magical.

Lego - this lends itself very well to the idea of "make anything from this" - it has already been done by Arty, of course, but that doesn't mean we can't revisit the idea and expand on it.

Many of namida's styles also have a lot of potential. Martian, Purple and Circuit spring to mind as "make anything" styles which also have a distinct and unified theme, and Lab and Honeycomb are probably the closest to feeling like OG styles.

I'll keep looking, there are many styles in the custom archives that I haven't even seen yet.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2024, 01:44:40 AM by WillLem »
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