Lemmings Plus DOS Project (third and final demo now available!)

[namida]

1) Below.
2) They are indeed involved in it.
3) Yes, it is.

Anyway, one of the reasons I consider that to be a glitch at least to some extent is the fact that you need to do it pixel perfect, and on top of that, depending on the exact frame position of the diggers relative to each other, it may not work. On top of that, bashers or miners on the same spot certianly don't cause one of them to stop. It's not a major issue, but it's still good to know there's a solution that doesn't require it.

[namida]

Good luck on this one. You'll need it.

EDIT: Version 2 uploaded. Don't worry about redownloading if you got it, the change is purely graphical.
EDIT: Version 3 uploaded. Version 2 had the wrong time limit.

All old downloads (except the official demo) have been removed.

[ccexplore]

Anyway, one of the reasons I consider that to be a glitch at least to some extent is the fact that you need to do it pixel perfect, and on top of that, depending on the exact frame position of the diggers relative to each other, it may not work. On top of that, bashers or miners on the same spot certianly don't cause one of them to stop.

It sounds like you don't quite grasp why the digger stops.  A digger stops basically when there's nothing more for him to dig.  Generally that happens when he's dug through an entire platform.  In the trick, you create this situation by having a second digger remove all the pixels underneath the first digger that he would've otherwise dug out himself later in his upcoming stroke.  So by the time the first digger do get to his stroke, the pixels are gone, he sees nothing to dig, so he stops and falls.  Indeed, if the game does more frequent checks for falling than is currently the case, the truly logical behavior would've been that the first digger falls as soon as the second digger has dug.

You need it pixel perfect only if the first digger is fully on ground, the pixel-perfect position necessary to remove all the pixels underneath the first digger that could cause him to continue digging.  If he's digging on the edge of a vertical drop for example, then the second digger has less pixels to remove , and therefore doesn't have to be perfectly on the same spot as the first digger to free him.

There might be some oddness with the behavior under certain timing/frame positions, I'll have to look at the game programming again to see, but in most cases it should work.

As for miners freeing miners and bashers freeing bashers, that can be done too, but not on the exact same spot because you don't remove the correct pixels at that position.  I've attached examples for both.  The miner one is demonstrated in level Tricky 6, and the basher one in level Mayhem 27.  For the basher one, you need 3 bashers because the basher looks ahead a bit further than can be handled in time by just a second basher.  Note that the climbers and floaters being assigned have nothing to do with the trick; they just help you identify the lemming that gets freed.

[Clam]

Good luck on this one. You'll need it.
[/quote

I think the title (and your comment) would suit better if the level gave you 2 minutes instead of 3. With some good multitasking, this is possible.

[namida]

o_O
f***.
It's meant to have 2 minutes, not 3. >_> Originally it had 4, then 3, then I kept trying and  sure enough found a 2 minute solution.

By the way, just out of interest, can I see your solution? It's again not one of the levels that's meant to have only one solution, but I'm interested to see if you solved it the same way I did.

Haha. One thing that's GREAT though. I saw a potential easy way to solve it (much too easy to leave in if it turned out to be possible)... and guess what? With the best timing I could acheive, the last lemming is one second too slow.

[Minim]

Dam you! I can't even believe you said that word, in that case, I'm reporting to the moderator (This is quite bad timing but still, this is a thread open to everyone at all ages, man).

[namida]

We've already had this discussion. I believe the final result was that the admin "couldn't care less about the words themself" or something to that effect.

Besides, if he did, the forum system does have an option to automatically remove certain words, so chances are that'd be turned on. Which it very obviously isn't.

[Clam]

I'm not too concerned about the swearing - actually, it was kinda funny in this case...

Anyway, here's my replay for "No time to die".

[namida]

o_O
That's definately a solution that needs to be removed. Far too easy...

The question though is, how to remove it while leaving in the "intended" one. (I use quotes as it's not really meant to have just one solution - but it certianly isn't meant to have any that are that easy either...)

Here's how I did it:

[Clam]

Wow, that's complicated.  I have no idea how you plan to force something like that as a solution.

[namida]

A mid-air (or close to it) trap could eliminate your route possibly, without causing any backroutes... but could it be made to look good without adding backroute-causing terrain or eliminating other valid routes that may not have been discovered yet?

There's also the issue of whether or not it'll have a significant effect on the easier version of this level, which is currently placed as early as Wimpy 11.

By the way, another minimum skills I'd like to see someone beat: 13 skills on "One Step At A Time" (in the demo) - using DOS MECHANICS, NOT CUSTLEMM. (It DOES make a difference here.)
Actually, 13 seems a very common minimum skills number for the levels I'm making... xD

[ccexplore]

Wow, that's complicated.  I have no idea how you plan to force something like that as a solution.

lol I haven't looked at this level at all (nor any solutions posted, intended or not), but based on namida's earlier attempt with "The Framework", I'm not surprised namida once again came up with something complicated that ends up being a backroute swamp.   Might be a fun level-design-type challenge though (or at least a good exercise) to try to eliminate the backroutes (or at least make them difficult enough "not to matter").

[namida]

There is a huge difference though - The Framework is meant to have only *one* route, whereas No Time To Die is simply not meant to have any easy routes.

[Fernito]

I found a 9 skills/100% solution for "No Salvation" (or 8 skills/90%). Don't know if the intended solution uses less skills (I assume the solution I found isn't the intended, because it's 100%).

Here's the replay.

PS: Also found a backroute for "Coalburner"

[namida]

Heh. Nice. But fixing it is a simple matter of moving the traps higher.