If you dislike building stages, what do you create instead?

[Dullstar]

Dang, fast forward isn't enough for me to accept that kind of level.  Try something that works a bit more effectively...

[The Doctor]

Sorry, not quite followin' ya DullStar?

[Dullstar]

Sorry, not quite followin' ya DullStar?

Seriously.  Do you guys have to make the S capitalized?  There's actually a reason why it's not capitalized in my username, and that reason is that it's a lowercase "S."

  if this feels a bit harsh, I don't think I've exactly ever mentioned that before, so...

[The Doctor]

Sorry, it just looks capitalised in the font I use to display web pages in.

Dullstar it is.

[Dullstar]

You wouldn't be the only one, if I recall correctly, to make that mistake.

[Shvegait]

I haven't made levels in, well, years now, but I seemed to be obsessed with climbers, probably because they are generally under-utilized and there are tons of puzzles you can make using them. The fact that making a lemming a climber can be both a good and bad thing makes their dynamics really interesting. I try to mix it up, although I do have several levels that involve much building. Really, I don't have a problem with building. The problem is the "hero lemming" concept, with one lemming doing everything (read: building!), paving a way for the others.

Short and sweet levels are the best! There's a time and a place for the longer, more involved (time-wise) levels, but they should be the exception, rather than norm.

[Dullstar]

Exactly.  I don't have a huge problem with hero lemmings if it's not extreme, but...

[namida]

For those of you who hate build-build-build levels, check out "To The End!" in Lemmings Plus 3.

Basically, in the first difficulty ranking, there's one of the typical worker lemming, build your way (and bash a few other obstacles) levels. Then in the final difficulty, there's a repeat version of it (that's "To The End!") which is almost unchanged - except for the fact you don't have any builders (I think the only other changes were the name (of course), the time limit, and requiring 100% in the repeat). It basically makes you complete what was previously a builder-abuse level, without using any builders at all.

Then there's that pack I released a while back which took levels from LP1 and LP2, and seriously cut down on the amount of builders, forcing you to find other ways to solve them. Don't know if anyone still has it though.

[Dullstar]

If it abused builders, how are you supposed to solve it without them?

[namida]

Try it, and find out.

One of the keys to it is using two worker lemmings at once (due to an actual need for two, not due to time constraints - although that's an issue too, it's simply not the reason for needing two workers), I won't say anything more than this.

[Dullstar]

A download link would be nice to try it.  If you post one, fine, I'll get it and try it, but right now I don't feel like Googling it just for a level test.

However, I'm not TELLING you to put a download link up, it's just easier like that.  Your call.

[namida]

http://207.58.177.175/~geoo89/lemmings/lp3full.zip

[namida]

Any luck on it?

[Proxima]

I confess to a degree of bewilderment. Yes, "Hunt the Nessy" and "Pea Soup" are annyoing levels that make the game more tedious. But many of the levels mentioned in this topic are nothing of the kind. "Heaven can wait, we hope", "The ascending pillar scenario" -- these only require a few builders, and solving the non-building part of the level is (for someone of the skill level I was when I first reached these levels) interesting and challenging enough to make up for the building part. In "Steel Works" and "Lemmings in the attic" the amount of building is directly linked to the challenge -- in the former, getting up a very irregular cliff face without running out of builders; in the latter, working out how to avoid splatting while the bridge is in progress. I would prefer if some of the levels like this had been cut down -- in "Steel Works" you could remove the middle bit of getting across the water, reducing the number of builders accordingly. But they're not by any means bad or unenjoyable levels.

That's why I try to make sure that in my sets, levels that require lots of builders still manage to be good levels. 

[The Doctor]

I dunno, I can semi agree with you, but I basically think "If it takes more than 3 builders to make one ledge, ditch it". That's because I rather like levels which depend on short bridges being built with good timing.