Wow, and here I was, thinking I could spend a few hours catching up on TV on my DVR without anything of interest going on in the forums...... Now I take a break from TV and see all
this.
So
that's what so hard about level. Great, thanks for spoiling that for me
(no, I
still haven't got around to trying it out, told you I'm busy).
Sorry to rant, but I feel quite strongly about this.
Well, everyone's entitled to their opinions. I have to say in my mind this is a bit of overreaction. Someone really determined to make "bad" levels can always do so via hex-editing or other such techniques. I suppose it would be nice to make sure the editor's design does not allow users from
accidentally creating such "bad" designs, and there's certainly no need to spend extra work to make the editor supports something unpopular that it can't already do, but I do feel a little offended at the notion of having the editor doing anything beyond that (ie. actively trying to restricting level designs that it can already handle).
And now, let me actually read what people have posted and respond to the specifics:
- Disable setting as background for terrain pieces, except for those which were clearly intended to be background objects (polar bears and the like). And preferably make those background-only (i.e. can't be used as terrain) and group them along with the trapdoors and exits to avoid confusion.
It's true that certain presets were intended to be used as background and everything else as true terrain. And I'm certainly interested in preventing magical secret passages by altering the background property of a few choice tiles... I'll probably end up making a built-in list as to which presets in which tribes need to be backgrounds. And if they need to be backgrounds, you can't split them into tiles... I'll think on this one some more.
Instead of trying to restrict the user, you can mitigate the objection simply by having a way in the editor to show what exactly is background and what exactly is terrain. For example, a mode that hides all background. In fact, such a feature is probably useful even ignoring this concern, by allowing the level designer to focus on the parts of the level that matters to the solution.
I suppose I can live with a mode that warns user when they try to use tiles meant for background as terain and vice versa, or at least some default mode that makes such "abuse" harder to come by, but I don't really think we should go as far as trying to censor it outright in the editor. The best way IMHO to discourage abuse is for the community to throw pie in the face of the level designer (so to speak), not censorship. And remember that there's always the hex editor.
- Delete traps that get buried behind terrain when editing, just as you would with terrain.
In Lemmings 2, all terrain is drawn first, then all objects on top of it in the order they're secified in the file. Traps and exits cannot be hidden behind terrain this time around, but objects can obscure other objects, which is what I did with that ten-tonsamajig in the level I made earlier.
Though for what it's worth, I'm not up for making an algorithm that detects whether or not the user is trying to be onery. It's against my religion.
Again, an easy way to deal with this is simply to make it impossible to truly hide anything in the editor. You may recall on my feature list talking about a feature that highlights the trigger areas (ie. the tiles that actually affect lemmings) of objects. Having such a feature would ensure that such hidden stuff would not survive a brief examination in the level editor, and community flocking would quickly discourage those who dare to abuse.
I'm not interested in playing someone's tribute to Hello Kitty during my special Lemmings time of day.
LOL
Though consider that there could always be someone out there who is interested.
More to the point, being able to make your own styles is something that I think will interest level designers, and we've seen this as one of the features where Cheapo is superior over something like Lemmix or LemEdit. Certainly not a feature for version 1, but don't be too quick in dismissing the possibility.
You can make it difficult without having to make it impossible
That sounds reasonable, although I'd go a step further and say that the main goal should be to prevent accidental bad design, not to actually trying to go out of the way to actively thwart someone who's determined to create bad designs.
Also, I think the scenario of a "n00b" creating tons of abusive levels sounds rather alarmist to me, especially within the community of this forum. Such a level designer would quickly be ignored like you would a spammer or troll.