Whoa, 607, didn't know you were over here.

Tonight when I get off work, I'll be looking into it, particularly how to get subcats set up appropriately if possible.

It's really just a matter of categorizing the ESC/No ESC feature.  I have no intentions of banning its use from any and all run types.

Oh yeah, as a side note, I got the "Oh No! More Lemmings" board up as well here: https://www.speedrun.com/morelemmings

I have not yet added the levels yet though.

Basically, it appears the PS and GBC ports are essentially Lemmings & Oh No! More Lemmings, but with a few levels missing.

I'll probably still end up splitting these levels among to the two different games, for ease of keeping track of all the levels.

Pretty much. As far as I've ascertained, the lack of RNG makes Lemmings runs almost entirely about execution.

For example "We All Fall Down" is pretty straightforward. Basically, the only way of optimizing the level is basically setting release to 99 as fast as possible. That pushes the last necessary Lemming out the fastest. However, to turn all those lemmings into diggers would basically require to click on every one of them while their window for clicking will basically be reduced down to a single pixel. You'd pretty much have to move the cursor slightly to the left by one pixel, and then timed each lemming movings along the cursor, turning them into diggers on their exact pixel.

Obviously, a human probably can't do this under any conditions absent the use of tools.

Regarding ESC feature, the only reason I'm really disallowing it at the moment, is because the only person outside myself to do an RTA attempt did so explicitly banning the feature, and because it isn't entirely clear to me yet which ports have some sort of ESC feature to utilize (like GB, SNES, or what have ya). I can see the pros and cons for allowing for both.

What I will likely to in the future to address this problem is to create two subcategories: One which allows ESC (or any other mechanic that can be determined to quick end the level) and one which does not.

For the purposes of your Amiga run, if you so choose to do one, I would be willing to create said subcategory if it is explicitly your preference.

As far as NeoLemmix is concerned, I've disallowed, mainly seeing how it's no way an official lemmings release. However, I don't see why NeoLemmix couldn't operate with an additional leaderboard at some point in the future, which would allow custom levels to be speedrun and get boards as well.


Another interesting thing about Lemmings, as far as TAS's are concerned, it's actually a pretty neat game TAS wise, because the puzzle pretty much remains the same. It becomes about finding the exact frames and pixels to do actions that result in the fastest possible time.


Definitely looking forward to your run; feel free to contact me regarding any questions. My graphic card has been utter trash the last couple months, so I can't really work on a 30 level run atm w/o risking crashes mid-run, but hope to address it soon.

0/10 Missing Satellaview port.


(joking by the way)

So I've now fixed the level leaderboards. DOS/Amiga, NES, Genesis, CPC/ZX, and SMS are all set up and ready to go in that regard. I'll try to get the windows version up as well for some point, but might try to get Oops All Lemmings up first, since both are on the windows version.

So I took your suggestion and sort of compared the loading times between two videos, and it does appear mine is loading slower. That's likely to me not having messed with the cycles at that point, but I can't remember if I had set to 3000 or max at the time. I will play around with that more tomorrow to see what sort of effects DOSBox has on the game. At the end of the day though, RTA will probably be secondary to the combined in-game times of the individual levels. The IGT's will likely take precedence, so if the RTA's appear different, than I can go through and add up level times to see where things actually stand.




In other news, I added all the NES levels. But in the process, I realize it was getting too confusing with the additional NES levels (they use a lot of repeat levels in different ways that other systems don't). What I will likely do tomorrow, especially now that I The Ports reference guide to work with, I will go back in the level leader boards and separate the levels into groupings of sensible platforms. Ultimately, it will just look 1000 times better, and probably be a little more accurate, since the tools can be different for similar levels on different platforms, even when lemming numbers are the same.

It'll be worth the work.

Additionally, I may add a 100% category for the levels as well, so that levels that can be 100% completed can also be timed.

In any case, once I rework the level boards tomorrow, they should be more or less ready to go.

Me just now finding this:  Check out pages 16-17 and beyond...

https://issuu.com/amigajay/docs/lemmings_-_the_ports Page

@namida As a side note, the SMS and the GameGear pretty much share the same hardware. The GameGear is backwards compatible with the SMS, more or less, but games for the GameGear cannot be played on the SMS.

Chances are, there is no difference between SMS/GameGear version of the games. I will double check though if I can, but likely the issue won't make itself too pressing for a while, I imagine.

SMS Levels Uploaded; except the two there were cases of Same name and Same # as original. I'm going to leave those be those be for now because they have separate leaderboards on the specific level's page (you can click each level).

At some point, I will finish figuring out what all possible categories might be for full-game stuff. That will allow me to actually assign the individual platforms involved to those specific categories (as well to each of one those specific levels.... yea.... )

So, on another note. I think I'm going to leave the ending rule as such, and that I mean, in level runs and full game runs, the player can't use Exit as a way to bypass the level quicker. I'm pliable in this matter but there are two reasons why I'm running with it for now:

1.) I'm not sure how relevant that is to all ports or releases, where the same function may work or different or something. So it would contribute to some consistency on an all platform basis. It's also a bit more risky to do since you can't just exit immediately once the necessary lemmings have exited the level; there's a balancing act using suicide between time and killing too many lemmings that make it fun.

2.) So, that other run that I referenced up there as the new WR. I'm going out on a limb here and guessing that guy may have seen my run and decided to try it out himself. Maybe not. In either case in his description he appears to follow this rule as well "Rules: ending level with ESC disallowed." So maybe I accidentally set bad precedent. Idk.

But like I'm said, I'm not ruling out feedback from others who are actually interested in submitting times and such.

On another note, I think I can get all ports until 1997 on the same board for sure, and possibly also the GBC (haven't tested that one yet for levels and such). The PlayStation releases and other later releases I imagine will have be handled slightly different, but I'm sort of worrying about those last.

And I'm gonna work on them SMS levels, THANKS!

@Proxima Oh my thanks!

So the four special graphics I left as is (each level is split into subcategories for each platform, since they all essentially play slightly different). Since the numbers and names are the same, I'll leave them, since someone running the Genesis version of that level wouldn't be compared to someone running the same level on a different platform. I merged the other four together and try to make it straightforward, and merged the SNES sunloft levels. I haven't added SMS yet (do you know if SMS has the same 120 levels as the original outside the 666 level?) but will add it soon.

I saw over 2 hours at first thinking, how the hell did he do that?! Then I saw the NeoLemmix, and I was like... oh okay lol.

My estimation on the DOS version is that it probably couldn't be done in less than 5 hours.

I did Fun originally in 56:48, but while I was doing all this work today on the boards, I came across someone beating my record.

Mine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0n2g7CCd3U&t=191s
New WR posted 2 days ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg5sUosg4TQ&t=1947s   42:45!!!!

So if perfect execution can drop Fun down 14 more minutes from me (RIP me), possible that the whole thing could be done relatively quickly.




But yeah, any other info about the other platforms and their differences in levels would be super helpful is anyone knows that stuff off hand! Thanks for those corrections for the levels.

@Simon Lemmings seems like one of the more interesting TAS games because even the tools don't eliminate the sheer calculus. So itself seems like a competitive challenge even as a TAS (which I guess all TAS's are but). With TAS the optimal thing to do is always increase release rate by 99 and play in that manner (which would clearly be impossible for a human).

With DOSBox, setting the cycles can be quite painful for games that don't have internal timing systems, whereas you can run the processor as a simulated dead stop, or as fast as your actual computer processor can allow it. However, games like Lemmings (and some other MS-DOS games I've run thus far) have an internal timer which limits the speed the game can operate, no matter how many cycles you give it. For gives like this, it becomes however many cycles you need to eliminate the lag (because it won't go faster).

Regarding hitting the ESC instead of nuking. THANKS! for that heads up. Now I'm actually sort of torn. I was going to use beginning of level until count hits 0 (and use the frame 0 appears as the end time). If you can, in effect, play the round, have 20 lemmings left, and then hit EXT, and the next screen just goes to the "Level Complete" page, then I'm going to have to make a decision; require Remaining counter to hit zero, or end time on another frame... presumable the first frame that the victory screen level appears. I'll play around with this later.

I guess I should probably ask if there has been or was any sort of Lemmings speedrunning up to this point... if there have been established rules on the matter in the past, I'd go with that. If not, I wouldn't mind some input from y'all regarding what you guys think is best.

@Colorful Arty I'm familiar with NeoLemmix a bit. Just by how speedrun.com is set up in general though, NeoLemmix runs couldn't make it onto the original game page. In essence, I'd have to create a new page for the NeoLemmix software (which I may be willing to do in the future, because I realize that could open up custom levels and the like to speedrunning). However, I still got 2 Xmas Lemmings, and Oh No More Lemmings to get through first.

@forestidia86 I haven't played the '95 Version yet. I would accept a run (of what I understand to be 116 levels for whatever reason), though it'd be a category of its own. I'd also have to spend sometime to make sure all the levels are the same or not, or which ones or the same or are new, and what order the levels are in. Will look into that some next.


In other news though: https://www.speedrun.com/lemmings/individual_levels

I've completed the individual levels list so far... which includes the 120 originals, the 12 additional from ZX/CPC releases, 5 Sunsoft for SNES, 60 additional levels for Genesis (I also painstakingly went through all Genesis levels, and separated the exclusive levels from the copies). So those should be good to run, as of now, more or less. I haven't looked yet, but I'm assuming SMS/GameGear is the same original 120 levels as Amiga/DOS/ST, but not 100% sure on that yet, so will check that one next.

So the ZX Spectrum and Amstrand CPC appear to share the same 60 Levels as one another. About 36-46 of the levels are redundant (can hopefully suss through that tonight). Once I figure out which of those levels are missing, I should be able to add them, as well as Full-Game run for these platforms called "All 60 Levels (ZX/CPC)" and that should take care of those two ports and make them good to go. That's assuming they are actually different levels, and not duplicates with different names. Will look into more this evening.

SNES has 5 "Sunsoft Levels," which should be easy to add the additional 5 levels as their own thing. It also appears 2 player is on SNES/Genesis but I"m not sure if those are co-op levels, and thus have not integrated any sort of co-op runs into the boards yet.

Hey y'all. I'm a transplant from the speedrunning world. A while back, I started working on speedrunning the original Lemmings. You can basically see what I've got up so far here:

https://www.speedrun.com/lemmings/full_game

So, because of how data is sort of cataloged on this site, I am running in to some difficulties in regarding how I need to split up the various platforms. Basically, because each port has a different number of levels, some levels switched out, or levels in different orders, setting up the full individual level leaderboards is proving to be a bit difficult at the moment. However, the 120 levels for Amiga/DOS/AtariST are up and should all be completely accurate as of now. It's unclear to me know because of the levels available on any given port as to whether I can get up all levels accurately for all ports on one page, or if I'll have to split the game page into more than one piece to properly account for all levels that can be run.

In any case, I'd like to invite y'all to submit times if you are interested. Gameplay must be recorded (ask, it's pretty easy to do). Additionally, games can be played via emulation for obscure platforms given that said emulations emulate the game accurately. And any feedback is appreciated.

I've already completed Fun and Tricky in terms of racing those 30 level packets. I haven't added my best individual times yet, but plan to do so soon.