Here I Go Again!

[GuyPerfect]

Who knew scroll bars were so tricky mathematically? Calculating the size of the scroll box (the part in the middle that shows where you are) to match the size represented by Windows took some fancy experimentation and heavy thinking. I mean, really. Who knew the math was so tricky?


EDIT:
Okay, got my scroll bar drawing routine set up. Just a little coding and I'll have functional scroll bars. (-:

[Dullstar]

How much longer until I can download the editor and use WINE (unless the Linux version comes out same day!) to run it?

[GuyPerfect]

For the project schedule and deadlines, please refer to this post.

[GuyPerfect]

I have an update, but no new pictures.

Everything kinda happened at once. I got a new job (which I'm still getting used to), my parents came to visit (since I haven't seen them for like a year) and I got things squared away with rent being due and the like. Well, parents have just left now, and I have a shift to work tonight, but things are more or less getting back to normal. I haven't been home since Thursday afternoon!

In any case, I haven't had the free time to work on this project this past week like I had before, but I was still working on it, even while not at home.

The scroll bars are done and implemented now, and they're awesome. The way I ended up organizing them was basically just by handle, and a custom Widget API does the rest of the work. An advantage to doing it this way is that I can set up the level editing interface and the element picker as widgets in and of themselves, which will let me composit the functionality of all features of the edtior dynamically and hard-code as little as possible, so I can avoid that big mess of global variables I was using before. This is very good for productivity.

However, like I said before, I want to disconnect all the editor code from the main application whatsoever, so I'm still in-progress of moving code over from the new project and making it fit the new organization. The next screenshot I post won't look like much work was done, but it's been a good learning experience and I'm glad things went the way they did. I should have something to show in the next few days.

[Dullstar]

We must be getting closer and closer to a Lemmings 2 editor!  Go, GuyPerfect!

[Dullstar]

How's it going on this, anyway?  If it can edit and save levels by now, can you release an incomplete version?

[GuyPerfect]

Phew. Took a while, but here's a scrolling picker interface!



Basically what happened is that, when I needed to introduce additional user elements, I found that I couldn't just keep slapping conditional statements in the input handlers (mouse clicks, for instance) and needed to reorganize things a bit to get multiple user elements in place.

At this point, the decision was made that the entire project should be pulled apart and structured differently, despite the necessary changes to achieve this. Most of the functions in the program make use of one or more shared global variables, and isolating those functions is a sheer time investment that made me go "Ick!" every time I thought about working on it.

I started a blank project and designed the scroll bar. By the time I was done, I had a system that very much stood on its own. I realized once I was done that this system can very easily be inserted into the existing project by adding a small layer of input handling on top of what's already there; keeping both systems intact and requiring no reorganization whatsoever.

So now I have a half-reorganized project on one folder, and the screenshot above is from the existing project but with the scroll bar system put in. It's not an ideal situation, but it's still functional and reasonably organized, so if I want to make something better, I'd have more luck just starting over and making all appropriate considerations from the get-go.

Anyways, what I have is two weeks' of free time work not even being used in the end, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. At least now I'm back on track and making visible progress in a timely fashion. (-:

The picker interface should be fully implemented by the end of the week. And I have Friday off, so that will help.

If it can edit and save levels by now, can you release an incomplete version?

The short answer is no.

[Dullstar]

So, how far's it gotten since the last report?

Any more sample custom levels (preferably from different tribes)?

[GuyPerfect]

I had a feeling you'd be here come Sunday. (-:

I advise that you don't keep this thread on auto-reload. Try as I may to ignore all the inconsequentialities of the world and only concentrate on the important things (like a Lemmings 2 level editor), my free time resists with increased ferocity and is making considerable headway towards the prospect of me having a life. The lack of progress on the editor is not due to burnout or even a change of interest; I simply haven't been able to work on it.

Though I've gotten a handle on interruptions to my schedule and am reasonably into the swing of things at work, I still got creamed right in the forhead by a curveball. On Friday, my awaited day off that I had planned to devote to this project, I woke up to a significant message in my inbox that demanded my attention moreso than Lemmings 2 (however much it pains me to report as such). The situation presented a number of opportunities that I'll be looking into, and at this point I can't even make any estimations as to how much I'll be able to spend on the level editor.

If things remain the way they are, I'll gladly be working on the project tonight and all day tomorrow. I hope to have an update or two to report by Monday night, but if you hold your breath, you may pass out long before the pixels on your screen show you anything new. When I have an update to report, I'll post it here. I won't hide things in secret until someone asks about it. (-:

[GuyPerfect]

Okay, here it is for real this time: My first Lemmings level for any game! The last one didn't exactly count, since it was made purely for testing and turned out to trigger bugs and such. But this one's awesome!



As you can see, the picker interface is complete. It works for both presets and objects, and can easily be updated to work with individual tiles when I go down that road.

I gotta tell you: using the editor in its current setup is slick. Picking out objects to use is intuitive and easy, and it only took me some four or five hours to prepare this level in its entirety: starting with a blue void and going all the way through playtesting.

One thing I did NOT do, however, was analyze the level extensively for backroutes. I think I got all the "use the multitude of available builders to get to the exit" methods cut out, but the funny thing with backroutes is that you can't always catch them all yourself. The level file is attached to this post. If you guys could check it for backroutes, I'd appreciate it.

I just finished this level in DOSbox with 100% and had 12 seconds left on the clock, so it's certainly doable. The solution does not require any split-second timing.

Oh yeah, just to make it clear: all the clouds and the sun are background tiles, and there are no hidden traps or secrets. What you see in the picture is definitely what the level is like, so the solution requires you to think and not know the special trick.

Like I said, the level's attached to this post as LEVEL010.DAT. It will overwrite Beach 1, so backup the original before using it.

[ccexplore]

The level file is attached to this post. If you guys could check it for backroutes, I'd appreciate it.

I just finished this level in DOSbox with 100% and had 12 seconds left on the clock, so it's certainly doable. The solution does not require any split-second timing.

That was fun!  I've attached screenshots for my 100% solution.  Unfortunately I unpaused by accident while trying to capture the "final" screenshot, so in addition to not having that screenshot, I don't know how many seconds were left on the clock, but it was definitely a lot more than 12 seconds (I'm pretty sure at least 1 minute left if not 2).  If you need additional explanations I'll PM you.  Possibly a backroute since I did have a few leftover skills, but hard to tell.

[GuyPerfect]

I added a variety of skills to allow for different solutions, and the solution I had in mind when making the level uses most of them. I had concerns that maybe it was a bit too specific, but the solution you found is simple enough that I'm now satisfied in the quality of the level. It fits my criteria of "medium difficulty with multiple solutions." The puzzle I was hoping to preserve when designing the level was getting the Lemmings up to the second area, which you did with the Miner as I intended.

I can tell already that I'll be making a bunch of levels now, so I'll start a new thread for those instead of cluttering up this one.

[GuyPerfect]

I've just tested Blocker on a non-Classic tribe. It didn't do anything. Just made my Lemming part of the background.

[ccexplore]

I've just tested Blocker on a non-Classic tribe. It didn't do anything. Just made my Lemming part of the background.

Cool!  Good to see my theory confirmed, at least partially.

Even though it doesn't actually block anything, will the blocker still be freed if the ground it stands on is removed?  Also, can you check whether you can assign overlapping blockers (ie. close enough together that their arms overlap, say) on a non-Classic tribe?  Just want to assess the potential of blockers on non-Classic tribes.

[GuyPerfect]

The Blocker is merely a graphical change. It can be dislodged, overlapped or whatever. The only thing you could hope to achieve with it is to keep a Lemming from walking off the edge.