Author Topic: Oh No! More Challenges!  (Read 26075 times)

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Offline Clam

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Oh No! More Challenges!
« on: March 14, 2009, 01:00:37 AM »
Inspired by the old challenge thread, I have come up with some new challenges, based on the original (DOS) levels.

MAJOR EDIT: I have compiled my challenges together in this post so you don't have to trawl through the whole thread to find them ;)

POINTS TO NOTE:
- These challenges are intended for DOS Lemmings (NOT the corrected version - sorry) and Lemmix. Other versions may be impossible (or too easy :P).
- All challenges require 100% unless otherwise stated. In some cases it is VERY difficult to get the last few %.
- A (*) means the skills mentioned are just restrictions. You can use any other skills, within the limitations of the original level.
- You can't use more of a given skill than the original level has available.
- For pairs of levels with the same map but different stats, try to find one solution that works for both :)
- Many of these challenges require use of glitches.
- Custlemm splat height is not allowed (except Tame challenges).
- Timed challenges don't account for the glitch with pausing at the start (which doesn't work in Lemmix anyways).


THE CHALLENGES! Recently added challenges in bold.

GENERAL CHALLENGES: Any challenges that don't fit into the other categories.

Fun 8 - bashers and diggers only, or bashers and miners only.
Fun 20 - 1 builder. * (Extra challenge - 1 builder, no climbers, 1 minute*)
Fun 24 - 4 builders.
Tricky 24 - 2 builders, 1 minute. *
Tricky 28 - 98%, no terrain-destruction skills
Tricky 30 - 8 builders, 4 miners.
Taxing 8 - 3 builders. *
Taxing 12 - 2 builders. *
Taxing 26 - 5 builders. *
Mayhem 11 - 9 diggers. (Alternatively: Taxing 30 - 7 diggers, 1 minute)
Mayhem 13 - 1 builder. *
Crazy 12 - 2 builders. *
Crazy 13 - 95% (19/20) , no climbers or floaters. *
Crazy 15 - Pass the level going via the platform on the lower right.
Blitz 8 - Get everyone to the exit on the right.


BUILDER ONLY CHALLENGES: Other skills? Who needs 'em?

Fun 9/Tricky 26
Fun 10
Fun 16/Taxing 3
Fun 20
Fun 27
Tricky 6/Taxing 10
Taxing 15
Mayhem 18
Wild 3 - 66/80 (82%) (NOTE - elsewhere in the thread I said 65/80)
Wicked 13
Wicked 17
Wicked 18 (Extra challenge - 12 builders)
Frost 9
Blitz 10


NO BUILDER CHALLENGES: The tables have turned. How well can you do without that most valuable of tools?

Fun 26
Fun 29
Crazy 9
Flurry 9
Flurry 12
Blitz 15 - 10/15 (66%)
Frost 3
Hail 4 - 79/80 (98%)
Hail 15


TAME CHALLENGES: Based on the first 20 maps of ONML. Not so tame any more!
Challenge versions for Custlemm/Lemmix can be downloaded here (1-10) and here (11-20).

1 - 2 builders, 1 digger.
2 - 98%, 5 miners.
3 - 98%, 5 miners.
4 - 2 diggers.
5 - 1 basher, no miners or diggers. *
6 - miners only.
7 - 2 climbers, 1 blocker, 1 basher, 1 miner, 1 digger.
8 - 20 climbers, 2 builders, 1 minute.
9 - bashers only.
10 - 1 climber, 3 miners.
11 - 96%, 1 blocker, 3 builders, 2 diggers, 1 minute.
12 - 4 builders, 1 miner, 1 minute.
13 - 3 builders, 1 minute. *
14 - 8 builders.
15 - 94%, 3 blockers, 1 basher, 1 digger.
16 - 1 builder, 1 miner.
17 - 98%, no bashers, miners or diggers. *
18 - 1 basher, no miners or diggers. *
19 - 1 of each skill.
20 - 31 seconds.


CEILING ROUTES: That terrain along the top of the level is just for decoration, right? WRONG!

Fun 15
Tricky 1
Tricky 14
Tricky 25
Taxing 11
Taxing 28 - 56/80 (70%)
Mayhem 7 - 47/50 (94%)
Mayhem 10 - 71/75 (94%)
Crazy 8


XMAS LEMMINGS RECORDS: We've had Lemmings and ONML records. These are mentioned purely for the sake of completeness. Most of these aren't challenges at all, but some (including some of the 100% records) are challenge-worthy.

'91 3 (= Crazy 14) - lose 2
Flurry 16 - lose 1
Blitz 12 - lose 1
Blitz 15 - lose 5
Blitz 16 - lose 2
Frost - 6 - lose 1
Frost 14 - lose 6
Hail 2 - lose 4
Hail 6 - lose 40 (PLEASE do not try to improve on this unless you can set up some sort of computer simulation. It's pointless.)


If you have your own challenges, be sure to check the old thread first (a quick ctrl-f search should be enough) to see if your challenge has been beaten before.

Offline Dullstar

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2009, 08:34:49 PM »
I kinda have to use DosBOX 'cause I don't have Lemmix.

Offline DragonsLover

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2009, 10:57:19 PM »
Quote from: Clam Spammer
(no one uses DOSBox for Lemmings any more, do they? ;))

I do, and always will, as it's the "original" and I also use the corrected version which adds the missing objects where the levels are supposed to be. Therefore, some of the challenges you listed don't work. Also, Lemmix doesn't work well under Win98SE.

However, how about doing a "hard" version of Lemmings by modifying all of the levels (excepted those that come twice in the game. We only have to modify one of the two) by making them insanely hard : less time possible, less skills possible and sometimes, with the max number of lemmings?

Recently, I did a modification of Fun 3 (Tailor-made for blockers) to make it very hard : 9 builders only, 2 minutes, 80 Lemmings, RR of 1. I don't know if it has already been done before, but if not, try that!
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Offline Clam

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2009, 01:12:53 AM »
I also use the corrected version which adds the missing objects where the levels are supposed to be. Therefore, some of the challenges you listed don't work.

What does that mean? I'm not familiar with this version. Which challenges won't work?
EDIT: Wait, that's the one that has the water like in the Amiga version, right? Yeah, Fun 20 is going to be difficult then...

However, how about doing a "hard" version of Lemmings by modifying all of the levels (excepted those that come twice in the game. We only have to modify one of the two) by making them insanely hard : less time possible, less skills possible and sometimes, with the max number of lemmings?

I'd rather not go through the whole levelset. Some of the original maps (eg. Fun 1 / Tricky 15) don't seem to be greatly conducive to challenges, and others (Tricky 23, Taxing 18) have been done to death already in the old challenge thread, as well as some of the custom levelpacks.

Recently, I did a modification of Fun 3 (Tailor-made for blockers) to make it very hard : 9 builders only, 2 minutes, 80 Lemmings, RR of 1. I don't know if it has already been done before, but if not, try that!
Nice one! :thumbsup:

Offline DragonsLover

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2009, 05:19:48 AM »
Hehe, thanks! :laugh:

I also thought about some nasty ideas like : Tricky 7 (Been there, seen it, done it) and Tricky 13 (Lemming Drops) with builders, just builders, only builders. Or, We All Fall Down, with 80 Lemmings, but just 25 Diggers (or even less). How about "A Beast of a Level" with a single basher (or even none)! Oh, and did you try Mayhem 17 (Stepping Stones) with 5 builders?

There were some other ideas as well, but I don't remember them for now.
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Offline Clam

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2009, 06:45:55 AM »
We All Fall Down, with 80 Lemmings, but just 25 Diggers (or even less).

How about 9 diggers? :P This was one of the challenges I had "in reserve" in case someone blitzed my first set, which I was half expecting. I suppose that was a little optimistic :)

Oh, and did you try Mayhem 17 (Stepping Stones) with 5 builders?

I think I did at some point. It seems I didn't take a replay at the time, but I remember how to do it.
EDIT: Just did it with 4.

Tricky 7 (Been there, seen it, done it) [...] with builders, just builders, only builders.

Wow, thats harsh :o. Given that it takes no less than 6 builders to cross to the last pillar, and another 8 (just tested this) to set up a direct drop (which, in the absence of other skills, is your only option)? That leaves only 6... ???


Now, I said I didn't want to make up challenges for the whole levelset, but there is one large subset that looks fairly conducive to challenges - the Tame levels. I know you sort of did this already DragonsLover, but you changed most of the maps. So, would anyone be interested in a new set of Tame challenges, on the original maps?

Offline Dullstar

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2009, 10:20:54 PM »
How about trying Not as Complicated as it Looks using only digging skills (Basher, Miner, Digger) and Builders (with 100%)?  It's possible, as I have done it before.

Offline -H0ru5-

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2009, 12:15:12 PM »
I'm trying to modify the original maps utilities to make some challenges because it is faster than drawing a new map XD They won't be sunsoft, of course, but complicated at least.

Question: is it called a challenge if I also add skills and modify release rate/time/to be saved? Or it is only a modification?

I checked some of the levels above... but how Living on the edge could be done with 2 builders if there are 5 pits, far from each other? I want to say, what's this corrected version which Clam Spammer mentioned?

Dragonslover: Tame levels don't have the possibility to modify them for challenges. They are way too simple.

Clam Spammer: How many have to be saved on Fun 3 with 9 builders, then? Seems interesting :)

Offline Clam

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2009, 11:05:53 PM »
Question: is it called a challenge if I also add skills and modify release rate/time/to be saved? Or it is only a modification?

Not sure, but personally I'd call it a modification unless it is doable within the specifications of the original level. Example (IMHO): Less skills, greater % to be saved and a shorter time limit would be challenges. Added skills, different total number of lemmings, changed release rate or more time (ie. the intended solution takes longer than the original level would allow) would be modifications. That's not to say that modifications aren't welcome here :)

Quote
I checked some of the levels above... but how Living on the edge could be done with 2 builders if there are 5 pits, far from each other?

I did say some of my challenges use glitches...

Quote
I want to say, what's this corrected version which Clam Spammer mentioned?

You'd have to ask someone who actually used it for details. All I know is that it changes the levels a bit to make them more like the Amiga version, which includes adding back the water objects that were removed for the DOS version.

Quote
Dragonslover: Tame levels don't have the possibility to modify them for challenges. They are way too simple.

I guess you haven't seen Mikepak13/14 then? Or did you mean to direct that comment at me? (In which case I still disagree ;))

Quote
Clam Spammer: How many have to be saved on Fun 3 with 9 builders, then? Seems interesting :)

100% ;) (well, presumably 100%. DragonsLover didn't specify, but it's certainly possible to save everyone)

Offline -H0ru5-

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2009, 04:59:28 PM »
Quote
I checked some of the levels above... but how Living on the edge could be done with 2 builders if there are 5 pits, far from each other?

I did say some of my challenges use glitches...

You'd have to ask someone who actually used it for details. All I know is that it changes the levels a bit to make them more like the Amiga version, which includes adding back the water objects that were removed for the DOS version.

Well, no serious level modifications, then... or not in this case with the taxing 12. But then how??? (Takes another glance on the level, the 2 builder, then hides under the bed)

Quote
Dragonslover: Tame levels don't have the possibility to modify them for challenges. They are way too simple.

I guess you haven't seen Mikepak13/14 then? Or did you mean to direct that comment at me? (In which case I still disagree ;))

I already knew them... but I wrote about challenges and in the case you defined above, Mikepak 13/14 are modifications XD

100% ;) (well, presumably 100%. DragonsLover didn't specify, but it's certainly possible to save everyone)

I was sure in it ;)

Offline Clam

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2009, 02:23:33 AM »
I already knew them... but I wrote about challenges and in the case you defined above, Mikepak 13/14 are modifications XD

Actually, some of those levels are what I consider to be challenges. Probably best not to get too hung up on terminology though.

Anyway, in response to your original point - yes, the tame levels are simple, but that's because you get lots of skills and don't have to save many lemmings to pass. Take away most of these skills and put up the % requirements, and they become somewhat less simple (and that's what challenges are all about :)). And because each level gives you 20 of everything to start with, there's plenty of ways to cut the available skills to make the levels more difficult.

Offline Dullstar

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2009, 08:22:36 PM »
I have a challenge for you!  Beat Save Me!  And with as many lemmings at the end as possible!  That should be quite the challenge, I have NO IDEA how to beat Save Me.

Offline Clam

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2009, 02:44:19 AM »
Your post reminded me that I hadn't managed to match the record for this level before (78/80, according to the old thread). Actually, I never even thought to try it. Well now I have :)


As for the other level you posted (Fun 8 - Not as complicated as it looks), how about trying to save 100% with:

  • Builders only (also works for the Tricky version)
  • Bashers and diggers only
  • Bashers and miners only

Offline DragonsLover

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2009, 06:34:37 AM »
Quote from: Clam Spammer
How about 9 diggers? :P This was one of the challenges I had "in reserve" in case someone blitzed my first set, which I was half expecting. I suppose that was a little optimistic :)

Hahaha! :thumbsup:

Quote from: Clam Spammer
I think I did at some point. It seems I didn't take a replay at the time, but I remember how to do it.
EDIT: Just did it with 4.

Yeah, it was around 5 but didn't remember the number exactly.

Quote from: Clam Spammer
Wow, thats harsh :o. Given that it takes no less than 6 builders to cross to the last pillar, and another 8 (just tested this) to set up a direct drop (which, in the absence of other skills, is your only option)? That leaves only 6... ???

You can change the amount of Builders too, obviously.

Quote from: -H0ru5-
I want to say, what's this corrected version which Clam Spammer mentioned?

I did a "corrected version" that makes the Dos levels to be like the ones of the Amiga by adding the missing objects and changing a few details. However, they aren't "totally" the same. Some objects, especially water, are moved a bit and some others deleted but they don't affect the gameplay and solution of levels at all. Also, Amiga supported 100 Lemmings, which is not the case with Dos that only supports 80 Lemmings on screen. So, for those levels that have 100 Lemmings, I had to change them so that there are 80 Lemmings.

You can get the now optimized corrected version here : Download.

Quote from: Clam Spammer
Quote from: -H0ru5-
Clam Spammer: How many have to be saved on Fun 3 with 9 builders, then? Seems interesting :)
100% ;) (well, presumably 100%. DragonsLover didn't specify, but it's certainly possible to save everyone)

Yeah, it's 100%. It requires a good timing too.

Quote from: -H0ru5-
But then how??? (Takes another glance on the level, the 2 builder, then hides under the bed)

Climbers are the key. Note however that it only works with Lemmix because the "glitch" :winktounge: doesn't work well under Dos. Try level 2 of my second Levelpak (Mikepak2) called : "Impossible?".
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Offline Clam

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2009, 08:48:43 AM »
You can change the amount of Builders too, obviously.

Just because it's obvious to you, doesn't mean it is for everyone :). I figured "builders only" meant only as many builders as you're allowed in the original level.

About Taxing 12 - the trick that I used has been mentioned before in a challenge context. It's somewhat tougher to execute in this case though...


Now a couple of other things: I have compiled a set of Tame challenges, as well as some personal records for the Xmas levels, but first there's a couple of things I'd like to ask about.

- Would you like me to put my Tame challenges into a Custlemm levelpack (or two), or should I just post them here? Forget it, I'll just post them...
- Does the corrected version cover the Xmas levels? I just had a browse through the Lemmings Encyclopedia and it looks like some of the terrain is different in the Amiga version, and one of the levels is completely different. I'm not sure if this will affect the max % scores though.
- (slightly off topic) Is the second rating of Xmas 93 "Blitz" or "Blizzard"? My sources conflict here...

Offline Clam

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2009, 10:27:34 AM »
Geez, what's it take to get an answer around here? Anyway, if we are about to move again, as K suggests, then I guess I'd better post these now. So here they are...


TAME CHALLENGES

1 - 100%, 2 builders, 1 digger.
2 - 98%, 5 miners.
3 - 98%, 5 miners. :P
4 - 100%, 2 diggers.
5 - 100%, 1 basher, no miners or diggers. *
6 - 100%, miners only.
7 - 100%, 2 climbers, 1 blocker, 1 basher, 1 miner, 1 digger.
8 - 100%, 20 climbers, 2 builders, 1 minute.
9 - 100%, bashers only.
10 - 100%, 1 climber, 3 miners.
11 - 96%, 1 blocker, 3 builders, 2 diggers, 1 minute.
12 - 100%, 4 builders, 1 miner, 1 minute.
13 - 100%, 3 builders, 1 minute. *
14 - 100%, 8 builders.
15 - 94%, 3 blockers, 1 basher, 1 digger.
16 - 100%, 1 builder and 1 miner.
17 - 98%, no bashers, miners or diggers. *
18 - 100%, 1 basher, no miners or diggers. *
19 - 100%, 1 of each skill.
20 - SPEED RUN: Save everyone in under 31 seconds, i.e. 100% in with 3.30 left on the clock. If you're playing in DOSBox (who still uses that, anyway? ;)) take 2 seconds off that for pausing at the start.

* For these levels you can use the other skills as necessary - the ones listed are just restrictions.

If you're at all interested, then it might be a good idea to copy these to your computer in case this place disappears again :)

Offline Dullstar

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2009, 07:29:23 PM »
Not as Complicated as It Looks with only bashers and diggers?  Wouldn't all the lemmings fall to their death?  I don't get how that would work.

Offline Clam

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2009, 07:01:45 AM »
Has anyone had a go at the Tame challenges yet? I have now put these into two Custlemm level packs to make it just a little more convenient. These packs are for Custlemm and not ONML mode in Lemmix (as far as I can tell, the different max-fall distance shouldn't matter).

CSTame1 (1-10)
CSTame2 (11-20)

Remember the time limit for level 20 is 31 seconds, not 1 minute!

Offline Dullstar

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2009, 08:36:44 PM »
Okay, I'll try the Tame challenges.

Offline Clam

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2009, 04:33:18 AM »
No point in keeping these to myself any more. Here's the rest of the challenges I've invented, plus my Xmas Lemmings records. I've had a look through the old thread, so hopefully none of these are repeats.


BUILDER ONLY CHALLENGES (100% unless stated otherwise)

Fun 9/Tricky 26
Fun 10
Fun 16/Taxing 3 (Taxing 3 has more builders but less time. It is possible to do both with one solution)
Fun 20
Fun 27
Taxing 15
Mayhem 18
Wild 3 - Just get enough to pass the level (65/80 or 81%)
Wicked 13
Wicked 17
Wicked 18 (If you want to go for economy, try to do this with only 12 builders)
Frost 9
Blitz 10


NO BUILDER CHALLENGES (100% unless stated otherwise)

Fun 26
Fun 29 (VERY hard. Seriously, this is nuts. Stay away from this one unless you really know what you're doing.)
Crazy 9
Flurry 9
Flurry 12
Blitz 15 - 10/15 (66%)
Frost 3
Hail 4 - 79/80 (98%)
Hail 15


OTHER CHALLENGES
Remember, a (*) means the other skills are fair game!

Tricky 24 (Tightrope City) - 100%, 2 builders, 1 minute. *
Tricky 30 (The Crankshaft) - 100% with 8 builders and 4 miners.
Taxing 8 (The Art Gallery) - 3 builders. *
Taxing 11 (The ascending pillar scenario) - Get everyone to the exit through the ceiling.
Mayhem 13 (The Great Lemming Caper) - 1 builder. *
Crazy 12 (Lemming Friendly) - 100%, 2 builders. *
Crazy 15 (Worra load of old blocks!) - Pass the level going via the platform on the lower right.
Blitz 8 (Presents of Mind II) - Get everyone to the exit on the right.


XMAS RECORDS

91
3 (= Crazy 14) - lose 2

Flurry
16 - lose 1

Blitz (Blizzard?)
12 - lose 1
15 - lose 5
16 - lose 2

Frost
6 - lose 1
14 - lose 6

Hail
2 - lose 4
5 - lose 1
6 - OK, I don't know :laugh:. There's really no point trying to set a record here, but I did manage to fluke a 50% (lose 40) solution.

All others - 100%.

Offline Dullstar

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2009, 08:45:53 PM »
Wow.  I must try that to see if it is possible (builder only challenges).  Does it mean Fun 9 TO Tricky 26, or (more likely) Fun 9 OR Tricky 26?

Offline Clam

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2009, 08:52:56 PM »
That's Fun 9 OR Tricky 26. Under the challenge condition the two are identical.

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2009, 04:03:05 AM »
Ah.  You know, I prefer it when you refer to the levels by NAME, instead of rating and level number, so I know what you are talking about. It helps me to know what level I'm going to be working on doing...

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2009, 04:06:14 AM »
After looking on Lemmings Encyclopedia, I kinda think that would be a worthy challenge, though as far as the game says, it shouldn't work out for Tricky 26.  Actually, I don't even know if you get enough builders.  I guess that's why they have Lemmix, then!

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2009, 04:14:07 AM »
1 - 100%, 2 builders, 1 digger.

I don't know.  The builders don't reach high enough (if you allow Lemmix, anyways.  Do you mean "Two diggers and one builder?"

Offline Dullstar

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2009, 04:18:46 AM »
BOGUS TAME CHALLENGES
1:  Building Physics
2:  Mining Physics
3:  See 2
4:  Lemming Climb (without climber) dsitace
5:  How do you go down without digging, mining, or expoding?
6:  Physics ERROR
7.  Terrain ERROR

PLAUSIBLE
8:  Check time limit, however, the skill limit is confirmed to work.

Offline Clam

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2009, 04:51:43 AM »
Quote
Ah.  You know, I prefer it when you refer to the levels by NAME, instead of rating and level number, so I know what you are talking about.

I take it you haven't found the Levels Viewer mode then? That makes life a lot easier :)


Quote
I kinda think that would be a worthy challenge, though as far as the game says, it shouldn't work out for Tricky 26.  Actually, I don't even know if you get enough builders.

20 builders isn't enough for you?


Quote
I don't know.  The builders don't reach high enough (if you allow Lemmix, anyways.  Do you mean "Two diggers and one builder?"

That would be much too easy :P

And none of my challenges are "bogus" - I never post a challenge without completing it myself first.

Offline Clam

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2009, 09:08:31 AM »
W00t! New record!

Hail 5, "Get the Point?", improved to 100%. :)


(edit) Found a better solution to Taxing 3 with builders only. It now works for Fun 16 as well (which, oddly, has fewer builders available).

Offline Dullstar

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2009, 04:27:42 PM »

Quote
I don't know.  The builders don't reach high enough (if you allow Lemmix, anyways.  Do you mean "Two diggers and one builder?"

That would be much too easy :P

And none of my challenges are "bogus" - I never post a challenge without completing it myself first.

I'll try to run it on WinUAE (if I have the rom, anyways).

Offline Dullstar

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2009, 04:30:48 PM »
Okay, maybe not...

Offline Clam

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #30 on: May 09, 2009, 10:10:31 PM »
Huh? I didn't mean playing it in Lemmix would be too easy. These challenges are meant to be played in Lemmix (or DOSBox). What I meant was that Tame 1 would be far too easy if I gave you 2 diggers.

(also, my Tame 1 challenge is impossible on Amiga - consider that a large hint if you know the game well)

Offline Dullstar

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2009, 01:31:36 AM »
I'll try you're version of the levels, but I haven't been able to get builders to build high enough in the actual game.  By the way, I have some challenges for the original lemmings, which I will post soon.

Offline LemSteven

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2009, 04:40:59 AM »
Yay!  I finally found the new forums!  Here are a few of my favorite challenge solutions:

Tricky 11:  No builders, 100%
Tricky 20:  No builders, 100%
Taxing 15:  No builders, 100% (VERY hard)
Fun 22:  1 climber, 2 builders, 2 bashers, 1 miner, 1 digger, 100%

The last one is actually pretty easy to execute once you figure it out.

I've used Clam Spammer's Taxing 11 "ceiling route" on Tricky 7, saving 100%.  I suppose that in Taxing 11, the shorter time limit necessitates the use of the direct drop trick.

Other interesting ceiling routes I've found include Fun 20 and Crazy 17 (Just barely possible within the time limit).


Offline Dullstar

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2009, 05:20:03 PM »
Here are some good challenges...
If you know the level numbers, tell me so I can add them on here.

Fun 15:  Don't let your eyes deceive you: 
3 diggers, 8 builders, 2 bashers, 100%
Fun 16:  Don't do anything too hasty:
Builders, bashers, 2 diggers, 1 climber, 100%
Fun 20:  We are now at Lemcon 1:
Builders, 2 climbers, 2 bashers, 1 digger.

More later.
If a skill is listed, but no limit for it, you can use as many as the level gives you.

Offline Clam

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #34 on: May 10, 2009, 11:59:42 PM »
Taxing 15:  No builders, 100% (VERY hard)

I've heard of this one but haven't tried it myself. With 20 of each skill it certainly looks as though it is possible.


Quote
Fun 22:  1 climber, 2 builders, 2 bashers, 1 miner, 1 digger, 100%

Wow. If my solution is the same as yours, then that is a very nice puzzle.


Quote
I suppose that in Taxing 11, the shorter time limit necessitates the use of the direct drop trick.

It certainly does :)


Quote
Other interesting ceiling routes I've found include Fun 20 and Crazy 17 (Just barely possible within the time limit).

I've tried Crazy 17, but without success. I've also had a go at Mayhem 7 (same map as Fun 20) and it looks like the ceiling route might just work here as well (though probably not with 100%).
edit: 47/50 (94%) confirmed on Mayhem 7 :)
edit2: Completed Crazy 17 ceiling route. 5 seconds to spare :cool:

Another interesting ceiling route is Taxing 12 - which leads to the 2 builder solution that I mentioned in the OP.
And at least one of my Tame challenges is a ceiling route (maybe two, depending on your definition of "ceiling route")


Fun ?:  Don't let your eyes deceive you: 
3 diggers, 8 builders, 2 bashers, 100%
Fun ?:  Don't do anything too hasty:
Builders, bashers, 2 diggers, 1 climber, 100%
Fun ?:  We are now at Lemcon 1:
Builders, 2 climbers, 2 bashers, 1 digger.

Those would be 15, 16 and 20. I have done the last two with builders only (see builders-only challenges), and I just did 15 with a digger to spare.

Offline Dullstar

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #35 on: May 11, 2009, 12:32:05 AM »
I put in a little bit of wiggle room there.  In LEMCON 1, I kept messing up on the stairs, so I decided the extra climber would be okay, since, it's still challenging.  And the diggers in 15 have uses.

FUN 15 DIGGER LIST
1.  Dig into the right side of the left pillar to corral the lemmings.
2.  Dig into the ground with the one lemming that isn't corralled with the others (assuming you did it right).  If the lemming is heading left, bash to stop the digging, if it's going right, use a builder to turn it around, then bash.
3.  Dig to release the corralled lemmings.

EDIT:  Can you set up some solution thing for the Tame Challenges, or at least provide a screenshot proving they are possible?

Offline Clam

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #36 on: May 11, 2009, 01:48:12 AM »
Here's another insane "fewer builders" problem (and a large improvement on previous efforts):
Taxing 26 - 100% with 5 builders.

And a few more fun ceiling routes:
Fun 15
Tricky 14
Crazy 8

All can be done with 100% saved (but very difficult to do so).

Offline Dullstar

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #37 on: May 11, 2009, 11:16:47 PM »
Tame Challenges
Tame 1:  2 bombers
Tame 2:  1 basher, 1 climber, 1 blocker, 1 bomber***
Tame 3:  9 blockers, 9 bombers***
Tame 4:  2 bombers, 5 builders, 1 digger
Tame 5:  5 bombers, 2 blockers***
Tame 6:  3 blockers, 8 bombers***
Tame 7:  1 climber, 1 basher, 1 builder, 2 miners, 1 digger, 100%
Tame 8:  2 bombers, 1 minute
Tame 9:  1 climber, 1 bomber, 1 basher
Tame 10: 1 builder, 3 blockers, 3 bombers***
Tame 11:  5 bombers, 1 basher
Tame 12:  Climbers (in case of stuck lemmings), 4 Bombers, 1 builder
Tame 13:  All skills as needed, 100%, no lemmings "lagging" lemmings
Tame 14:  Builders and Bashers ONLY, 100%
Tame 15:  3 Builders, 2 Miners, 1 Climber, 1 Digger, 100%
Tame 16:  1 Builder, 2 Bombers, 1 minute and 30 seconds
Tame 17:  2 bombers, 40 seconds
Tame 18:  3 blockers, 3 bombers, 1 miner, 1 basher***
Tame 19:  10 bombers
Tame 20:  2 bombers, 4 builders, release rate greater than or equal to 50

***For harder challenge, remove blockers.  In the case of Tame 3, this MAY make more bombers needed.

Versions:
Verified:  Lemmix, DOSBox
Bogus: None so far

Offline Clam

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #38 on: May 12, 2009, 02:56:41 AM »
#14 is already superseded by my challenge (8 builders) ;)

I'm going to put all of my challenges into the OP so they don't get lost in the pages of this thread (I'll continue to post more as I find them). First, though, I will mention another challenge that I just completed after being unsuccessful before. A surprisingly difficult one:

Taxing 10 (and Tricky 6) - 100% with builders only.

And couple more ceiling routes:
Tricky 25 (Cascade). It can be done without floaters :)
Taxing 28 - 56/80 (70%)
Mayhem 10 - 67/75 (89%), room for improvement.

Offline Dullstar

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #39 on: May 12, 2009, 09:16:16 PM »
#14 is already superseded by my challenge (8 builders) ;)

I don't know if you're talking about the challenges I submitted, but, Clam mer, the challenges I submitted are mainly for people who are just getting started with challenges.  I might make harder ones later.

Offline Clam

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #40 on: May 14, 2009, 01:09:29 AM »
OK. They are a bit heavy on bombers though.

Anyway, I've improved the Mayhem 10 ceiling route to 71/75, or 94%, and also found a 100% ceiling route on Tricky 1. This may be the last ceiling route I find, unfortunately. There's a couple more that would be viable with more generous time limits or % requirements (Wild 14 for example) but they seem to be out of reach.

Offline Dullstar

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #41 on: May 14, 2009, 03:46:54 AM »
Well...
Those were the best challenges I could think of, to tell the truth...

Offline Clam

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #42 on: May 23, 2009, 08:19:46 AM »
Here's another insane one.

Tricky 28 - 98% with no bombers, bashers, miners or diggers. In other words, without destroying the terrain.

The trick will be obvious to some of you (others will tell me it's clearly impossible :P), but that last 1% takes a lot of effort.

Offline Dullstar

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #43 on: May 23, 2009, 07:21:01 PM »
I don't get this.  Can you post some help in this thread I started?

Oh No! More Challenges!:  Help

Offline DragonsLover

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #44 on: May 24, 2009, 07:35:15 AM »
Two more challenges (hope it's not already done) :

Crazy 18 - 100% (Hard, but possible)
Crazy 19 - 100% (Once you find the way, it's a piece of cake)
I like dragons! They're the center of my life! I'll never forget them...

Offline Clam

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Re: Oh No! More Challenges!
« Reply #45 on: May 25, 2009, 12:11:06 AM »
Two more challenges (hope it's not already done) :

Crazy 18 - 100% (Hard, but possible)
Crazy 19 - 100% (Once you find the way, it's a piece of cake)

Both were mentioned in the old thread, but still good. There's also the ceiling route for Crazy 19, but I don't know if it's possible to get 100% this way. 18 would have a ceiling route if there was more time...