[NeoLemmix] PiPoPack

[Pieuw]

Edit 04/13/24 - Due to the Dodochacalo / Pieuw levelpack soon becoming a thing, PiPoPAck will become obsolete and I'm locking this topic and removing the attachment. See you soon in another topic !

[kaywhyn]

@Pieuw

Awesome! I look forward to what was made for this when the time comes, which probably won't be for some time. Don't worry, though. I promise to link the LP to you when I do

It is quite unfortunate that you haven't been able to get a hold of Dodochacalo for years now But well, that is the reality of things sometimes. About a month ago, I uploaded my solutions to his FranLems and both his Dodopack and Cachapack of 10 levels each. I even @mention his channel in both the video titles and descriptions, but even I haven't had any luck with hearing from him. At best, I'm thinking he might have seen them because of the video likes I've been getting, but that probably is very unlikely since there are so many Youtube users/channels. Not to mention the likes are anonymous.

According to his channel description, he released an update for his Lemmini packs back in December of last year (about 3 months ago). I took a look, and it seems that he only changed one level of the Plain rank, Plain 17 - The Heat of Action. The change there is it now doesn't have any climbers, meaning the only way to rescue the bottom entrances now is just to straight up build them out, but well, it's fine. It's his level and hence he does what he likes with it. Everything else about DoveLems, as well as his two mini-Lemmini packs of 10 levels each, don't have any changes as far as I can tell despite the date for some levels showing as 2023 rather than matching the year from about a decade ago of all the other files. I did compare the 2023 level files to the Dropbox download I had from a very long time ago and I don't see any visual differences or skillset changes in them, for example.

I'm hoping to get a video series out for DoveLems and also upload my solutions to the Lemmini version of the pack soon, but I'm currently waiting for Icho to go through my replays for the NL conversion of the pack before I do so. Quite honestly, when I went through the NL conversion of DoveLems earlier this year, I didn't remember the difficulty already being a bit much even in various parts of the Plain rank. In particular, I would have to say that Plain 11 - Concentration Camp is a big step up in difficulty for just the first rank. That level honestly had me stumped for a while, though in fairness it's been years since I last played the Lemmini version before I took on the NL conversion and hence I had forgotten plenty of the solutions. All good, though, as I was able to make and puzzle my way through the pack again after so long

Anyway, my congrats on getting this released even if it isn't anywhere near the hyped up and looked forward to collab product that we were hoping for. It's still better than leaving them unreleased and therefore they don't get to see the light of day by the community. We can all just hope that everything is ok with Dodochacalo and that we'll eventually hear something from him, but well, who knows when that'll be, if ever.     

[Pieuw]

Thank you @kaywhyn

It definitely is nothing like the final product we envisionned but still, it's better releasing what I've been working on than keeping the levels for myself. The real tragedy to me is that Dodochacalo made some excellent levels and I can't take the responsibility to release them myself. Hopefully someday Dodo will make his work available to all!

Regarding Dodochacalo, I'm sure he's doing fine but, as myself, he tends to disappears for long periods of time. Life must be busy

[Simon]

Good job to tie the loose ends together and release your half of the project!

It's a surprisingly hard decision even when one forsees no imminent progress. It's much better than letting it sit unreleased forever -- 50 levels is considerable! -- and you can always re-release if Dodochacalo reappears in a few years.

-- Simon

[Pieuw]

Hey @Simon !

Indeed there's still hope that the project will be completed someday in the far future. I just couldn't sit on these levels any longer.
By the way, I guess some of these levels would not have made the cut into the final pack. They're not all good. Some are a bit weird too But I wanted to include them all here, as a retrospective of everything I made these past 10-ish years.

Thanks for the kind words!

[kaywhyn]

@Pieuw

New development! Dodochacalo subbed to my Youtube channel 4 hours ago. Looks like he has been noticing the @mentions I been doing on my videos of his levels after all Though whether that means work will resume on the collab with you or not soonish is another matter. Only time will tell. I've also pinged you on the Discord on the #forum channel about it

Again, I'm hoping to get a video series out on his DoveLems pack soon, as I know he'll appreciate very much hearing my thoughts aloud on it, but that is dependent on when Icho can go through my replays for the pack. As I know he is quite busy these days and hence doesn't have much time for Lemmings or spends it on other activities because it's unrealistic as humans to be playing the game everyday, definitely no pressure or rush on his end. It's whenever he can and is able to.

[IchoTolot]

Seems like I totally overlooked this topic when it appeared and my personal to-play list needs to be expanded!

Congratulations regarding the release!

Right now LOTY2023 stuff has priority regarding playing, but after that I try to get some replays out when I find the time!

[Pieuw]

@kaywhyn
Nice to know Dodochacalo is still around I don't have many ways to contact him and since he's not answering on Messenger I won't insist for the time being. He will come around eventually when he feels like it

@Ichotolot
Thank you!
I've been playing some Lemmings lately, mostly testing some levels for mobius. If I'm still around when the LOTY2023 pack is released I'll give it a try

[David]

Hi Pieuw,

Here are the replays attached.

I loved this level pack : the designs are very neat (with lots of details) and the puzzles are often very interesting (and sometimes quite vicious! ). However, I think I have found alternative solutions (Pompous 4, for example) or some backroutes (Piquant 7, for example).

There is one level that I have not managed to solve: Piquant 3. Each time I am missing a skill (a builder) to save the 50 lemmings. I only manage to save 49 maximum. Is it really possible to solve this level?

[kaywhyn]

@David

Yes, Piquant 3 is solvable but the only way I know of is the super fiddly and timing heavy thing in the spoiler.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If done correctly at the right time, a blocker turns the basher back to the left but the blocker also gets released at the same time. Framestepping is your best bet here to achieve this.

[Pieuw]

Thank you @David for the kind words! I'm delighted you enjoyed these levels

They're all solvable of course and none of them require what I would call "fiddly techniques", but this may be a matter of point of view. I don't think piquant 3 requires any weird trick or tight timing but I'll take a look at my replay to make sure.

I'll also check your replays as soon as I have some time. Thanks again for the feedback!

[David]

kaywhyn: Thank you for confirming that this level is solvable. I understand the technique you're talking about, but I still don't know how to go about it. I'll try again.

Pieuw: The compliments are deserved. And I agree with you, there are no "fiddly techniques" in your levels.

[Pieuw]

@David After taking a look at my replay I can confirm Piquant 3 is solvable without any weird / fiddly trick nor extreme timing. I'm sure you'll manage to solve it eventually as you managed to beat the hardest levels of the pack

I also watched your replays, here's my feedback:

These were slightly backroutish but felt OK
Prosaic 10 - Low Tide
Pedantic 03 - From A to B and Back Again
Pedantic 08 - Dual Flavored Swirls
Pedantic 10 - Cabinet of Curiosities
Pompous 05 - Hypostyle Freestyle
Pompous 09 - Funhouse Shmunhouse

These were backroutes but the levels are broken anyway
Posh 04 - As not easy as it doesn't look
Pedantic 07 - Maintenance Staff on the Loose
Piquant 04 - Take Five

Huge backroutes
Posh 03 - Second-Hand Wonderland
Posh 05 - Swim Swap Swoop
Posh 09 - Bridges in the Sky
Pedantic 04 - Land of Confusion
Piquant 05 - Satanorium
Piquant 07 - Forbidden Friendship
Piquant 10 - False Happiness
Pompous 01 - Emeraldpunk 5047
Pompous 02 - Rickety Business
Pompous 04 - Deus Ex Machina
Pompous 06 - Itinéraire Touristique
Pompous 07 - A tad mad, a tad rad!

Puzzles you solved perfectly
Prosaic 03 - Quid Pro Quo
Prosaic 04 - Format Semantics of Modal Logics (though you could have saved lots of time here)
Prosaic 06 - Smell Like Team Spirit
Posh 01 - Paucity
Posh 06 - Dos and Dents (thinking this one should have been placed later because of the intended trick)
Posh 07 - Convoi Prioritaire
Pedantic 01 - Return to the Shire
Pedantic 02 - Novelty Act
Pedantic 05 - Ethereal Refinery
Pedantic 06 - Razing the Foundations
Piquant 01 - Viaduc Caduc
Piquant 06 - Precarious Guidance System
Piquant 08 - The Diving Board
Piquant 09 - Attack of the Big Root Thingies
Pompous 03 - Structure of Matter
Pompous 08 - Shelf Control
Pompous 10 - Horus's Reaching Hand

The other levels were either open-ended or close enough to the intended solution. Well done solving (almost ) all of them!

I may take some time in the near future to fix some backrouted levels, especially the ones I like the most.

[Mobiethian]

Keep up the amazing work on this! I am really blown away by the awesomeness of everything you've done.

[Pieuw]

Thank you so much @Mobiethian
I don't think I'll make more levels in the near future but I may at least fix the existing ones if needed.

[David]

Pieuw, I finally solved Piquant 3 (see replay) . However, I didn't use the kaywhyn trick and I didn't use the climber skill. So I think this is a backroute. I’ll be curious to know the intended solution. For me, this is the hardest level in the pack.

I didn't think there were so many backroutes in my solutions. In fact, as you specified that the progression curve was not "smooth", I wrongly thought that the difficulty was quite random. So, I wasn’t surprised to find rather easy levels in the last rank, and vice versa. Indeed, some levels in the first rank seemed quite difficult to me (Prosaic 7, Prosaic 8, and especially Prosaic 10).

My solution for Piquant 10 is therefore a huge backroute! It took me many hours to solve this level. Again, I would be curious to know what the intended solution is. It was, with Piquant 3, the level that was the most difficult for me to solve.

Regarding Pompous 7, I didn't think my solution was a backroute either. I found this level pretty awesome, and it took me a lot of attempts to find a coherent solution.

[Pieuw]

Pieuw, I finally solved Piquant 3 (see replay) . However, I didn't use the kaywhyn trick and I didn't use the climber skill. So I think this is a backroute. I’ll be curious to know the intended solution. For me, this is the hardest level in the pack.

This is a backroute indeed. If a solution requires such frame-by-frame "messy"skills assignment, you can safely assume this isn't what I intended Nevertheless, well done! You found a working solution and it's fine.
I really don't think this level is that hard, the intended solution is easy to execute and doesn't require any hard trick. It may be hard to figure out though

I didn't think there were so many backroutes in my solutions. In fact, as you specified that the progression curve was not "smooth", I wrongly thought that the difficulty was quite random. So, I wasn’t surprised to find rather easy levels in the last rank, and vice versa. Indeed, some levels in the first rank seemed quite difficult to me (Prosaic 7, Prosaic 8, and especially Prosaic 10).

The levels are ordered by ranks which are meant to get harder and harder. I just sorted them pretty quickly based on my perspective only so this is why I said the difficulty curve may be bumpy. Also, the first rank gets a bit hard very quickly because I didn't really make easy levels except for the first two.

My solution for Piquant 10 is therefore a huge backroute! It took me many hours to solve this level. Again, I would be curious to know what the intended solution is. It was, with Piquant 3, the level that was the most difficult for me to solve.

False Happiness requires a very specific trick to be solved. You didn't use it so your solution is a backroute but this doesn't mean this is a bad solution. You got many things right, too! I'm impressed you spent hours on it, I hope it didn't drive you crazy!

Would you like me to send you replays to these levels (Piquant 3, Piquant 10, Pompous 7)? Maybe more?. Or would you prefer some clues to try and solve them another way? You can PM me anytime

[David]

Thank you Pieuw for your detailed feedback. To begin with, I would like you to give me some clues to solve (in another way) the levels Piquant 3 and Piquant 10, because these are the two levels which were the most complicated for me. I will send you a PM if necessary.

[Pieuw]

The following levels have been fixed to prevent David's backroutes. Since then he solved all of them as intended, which is neat but I'm sure some backroutes still remain

Posh 03 - Second-Hand Wonderland
Posh 05 - Swim Swap Swoop
Posh 09 - Bridges in the Sky
Pedantic 04 - Land of Confusion
Piquant 05 - Satanorium
Piquant 07 - Forbidden Friendship
Piquant 10 - False Happiness
Pompous 01 - Emeraldpunk 5047
Pompous 02 - Rickety Business
Pompous 04 - Deus Ex Machina
Pompous 06 - Itinéraire Touristique
Pompous 07 - A tad mad, a tad rad!

I updated the attachment in the first message.

[Pieuw]

Well, something happened. Dodochacalo is still around! We'll try to merge our levels into a bigger pack than this one. He's got around 30 levels so this would make for an 80 levels pack, which is quite fine.
We'll take some time to order levels and fix what needs to be fixed, then we can release it. The pack would probably be updated if we happen to make more levels in the future

[Armani]

I played through the pack and here're my solutions

Pimolems was one of the very first level packs I played after I joined the forum and started playing custom levels. And I'm glad that you are still around at custom level scene.

I think I found the intended solutions to most of the levels with a few backroutes.
And for some levels, I've found multiple solutions:
Posh5(2), Pedantic1(4), Piquant3(2), Pompous4(2), Pompous7(2)

[Pieuw]

Thank you Armani!

I'm locking this topic now (see note in the first message) but I'll check all your replays and come back to you in the private messages