Author Topic: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure  (Read 17766 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ccexplore

  • Posts: 5311
    • View Profile
Now that Eric's Lemmix (alpha version 0.0.7.0 to be exact) has the ability to record and play back solutions, there's now a way to share solutions to DOS Lemmings levels without making huge movie captures with DOSBox!

I will start uploading some Lemmix-recorded solutions to the following location:

http://www.geocities.com/guestlevels/lemmings/challenges

To play them back you need to do the following:

1) download and unzip the solutions somewhere.̆ The files with the ".lrb" extension are the recorded solutions.̆ The .txt files are the recorded solutions in a more human-readable form, in case you're curious.

2) Open the corresponding level in Lemmix.̆ You'll find Tricky 23 in level000.dat of DOS original Lemmings, and Havoc 10 at dlvel000.dat of DOS ONML.̆ Once you open the DAT file, Lemmix will present a pop up window which lists by title all the levels in the levelpak, and you can select the one you want to load it.

3) Once the correct level is loaded, press F2 to go into playtest mode.

4) Press shift+R (ie. capital R).̆ Lemmix will ask you to open a replay file.̆ Select the .lrb file for the level you are on.

5) Now sit back and enjoy the show!̆ Lemmix will automatically restart the level with automatic replay when you opened the lrb file.̆ You can pause and unpause at any point in the replay, if you want to examine certain parts of it more carefully or slowly.

6) Press ESC at any time to quit and go back to editor mode.

--------------

I've uploaded the 79/80 Tricky 23 solution and the 17/21 Havoc 10 solution so far.

I'm planning to do the 100% Wicked 6 at some point, though since I can't find any notes I written down for that level, I might have to figure out the solution again from scratch, so that might take some time.

Feel free to drop requests here on which other solutions you'd like to see!̆ There will be a few solutions that I won't make available for now, mainly because I might want to use similar techniques in my own CustLemm levels, but it doesn't hurt to ask anyway.

If you have any trouble installing Lemmix I'll be glad to help, as is Eric.̆ I will also answer any questions you may have regarding the solutions posted.

Offline nobody

  • Posts: 60
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2006, 02:38:32 PM »
When I try to open the LRB file I get an error message: Error during play: invalid stream format. Also for some reason the path for all my .dat files seems to be hard coded to C:/LemOrig, so I couldn't open them from their original locations. I moved the files to C:/LemOrig and now they work, but since the graphics files for the original lemmings and ONML have the same name I can't have them both in the same directory, so I have to keep moving files around if I want to view levels from the different games correctly. Any help?

Offline ccexplore

  • Posts: 5311
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2006, 04:58:12 PM »
Hi, to set up the paths you need to edit the "LemmixStyles.ini" file.

Exit Lemmix if it's still running, then open LemmixStyles.ini in Notepad.̆ You will find a section that starts like this:

[style_0]
StyleClass=TDosOrigStyle
CommonPath=

Change the assigned value of "CommonPath" to point to the directory where you have DOS original Lemmings installed.̆ For example if it's "c:\lemmings", then change the line to

CommonPath=c:\lemmings

Similarly for [style_1], which should be the ONML style section.̆ Change its CommonPath to point to DOS ONML's directory.

Save the changes and then run Lemmix again, and it should work correctly now.  Let me know if that helps.

Offline nobody

  • Posts: 60
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2006, 05:28:02 PM »
Thanks for explaining the paths. I still get the "invalid stream format" error when I try to open an lrb file though, any help?.

Offline ccexplore

  • Posts: 5311
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2006, 07:12:45 PM »
I have a feeling you are using an older version of Lemmix.̆ Perhaps Eric forgotten to update http://home.hccnet.nl/ericenzwaan/lemmix/Lemmix.zip to the 0.0.7.0 version.

<update: this has been fixed by Eric>

Offline EricLang

  • Posts: 464
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2006, 07:53:02 PM »
I'm sorry for the manual installation but we are at alpha stage. I uploaded 0.0.7.
I think I uploaded a "lemmix.zip", yesterday or so, which should have been "Lemmix.zip" (note the uppercase).
The paths are all explained in the readme.
Lemmix 0.0.6 gives the "invalid stream" error.
In the menu Help-->About you can verify the version.

Offline nobody

  • Posts: 60
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2006, 08:36:15 PM »
Thanks for the help. I'm looking forward to seeing more of these. That Havoc 10 solution was pretty crazy! What exactly caused the first miner to stop mining? Also, as a request I'd like to see the 100% solution for Taxing 16 (Mary Poppins land).

Offline nobody

  • Posts: 60
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2006, 09:19:26 PM »
Here are 100% solutions for Tricky 22 and Mayhem 7: http://www.sendspace.com/file/ybg1nx

Offline EricLang

  • Posts: 464
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2006, 09:55:13 PM »
Please only record for Original Lemmings!!!
I'm having a small mechanics problem with ONML and CustLemm.

Offline EricLang

  • Posts: 464
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2006, 10:06:39 PM »
Speedy solution for Mayhem 7
Mine was this:
http://home.hccnet.nl/ericenzwaan/lemmix/original.zip

Offline nobody

  • Posts: 60
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2006, 10:24:06 PM »
Cool, I didn't realize it was possible to clear the final gap from the pole with only one builder. Before coming up with my solution I had spent an entire afternoon trying to figure out how to 100% it but everything I tried came up one skill short.

Offline EricLang

  • Posts: 464
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2006, 10:37:11 PM »
ONML and CustLem can be recorded with Lemmix 0.0.8.0 now (I hope, I have to sleep now).

tseug

  • Guest
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2006, 12:32:34 AM »
For some reason the moust is still active during replays, so moving the mouse even one pixel can mess up the whole replay.

Offline ccexplore

  • Posts: 5311
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2006, 12:47:25 AM »
That's odd.̆ I assume this is version 0.0.8.0?̆ I haven't got a chance to try that yet.̆ Then again, come to think of it, so far I haven't really been moving the mouse much when watching a replay.

The replay format records the index of the lemming to assign skills to, so the position of the mouse cursor shouldn't matter at all.̆ (Unless it's a graphics issue.)̆ Can you be more specific about how moving the mouse is messing up the replay?

tseug

  • Guest
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2006, 12:59:57 AM »
Oh, actually it's clicking. After one click the skills aren't assigned anymore.

BTW when I try to play the Havoc 10 recording it says "no compatible graphics set found" (more specifically when I try to change the style). I changed the config file to point to the right set, but it still doesn't work.

EDIT: I got the graphics set, but when I try to play it I get this:

              Error during play:
invalid replay header different mechanics.

Offline ccexplore

  • Posts: 5311
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2006, 01:08:15 AM »
Oh, actually it's clicking. After one click the skills aren't assigned anymore.

Oh ok, that's intentional.̆ This allows you to regain control from the replay, kinda like how Cheapo handles replay.

Indeed, you can use the record/replay feature as a sort of rudimentary save state.

Which reminds me:  I don't remember if Eric documented this or not, but right now during playtest mode, you can press F to toggle fast-forward on and off, even during replay.

BTW when I try to play the Havoc 10 recording it says "no compatible graphics set found". I changed the config file to point to the right set, but it still doesn't work.

If you made changes to the LemmixStyle.ini while Lemmix is still running, you'll need to quit and restart Lemmix so it picks up the changes to the config file.

Also, to clarify, are you only having problems replaying the solution, or are you unable to even open the Havoc 10 level in dlvel000.dat of ONML?

Then again, Eric did update something related to ONML game mechanics between 0.0.7.0 and 0.0.8.0, so maybe it's better for me to re-record the Havoc 10 solution (the change shouldn't affect the solution at all, but what the heck).

Offline nobody

  • Posts: 60
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2006, 01:08:56 AM »
Here's Tribute to M.C. Escher  (Taxing 18) 100%: http://www.sendspace.com/file/azh4dt

Offline nobody

  • Posts: 60
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2006, 01:18:38 AM »
100% on Walk the Web Rope: http://www.sendspace.com/file/lh54si

Maybe we could start a database for keeping max lemmings saved solutions? I'd be more than willing to help out.

Offline ccexplore

  • Posts: 5311
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2006, 01:23:34 AM »
Maybe we could start a database for keeping max lemmings saved solutions? I'd be more than willing to help out.

Sounds like a good idea.  Though I would extend it to keep any "interesting" solutions, not just max lemmings saved.  For example, for a while there were fewest-builder or fewest-skills solutions being touted about in the Lemmings Challenge thread back on the old forums.

Offline nobody

  • Posts: 60
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2006, 01:33:59 AM »
Here's Cascade: http://www.sendspace.com/file/u8xt22 (First time ever completing it 100% woohoo!)

Offline Mindless

  • Posts: 719
  • Inactive - may respond to PM.
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2006, 02:00:39 AM »
100% on Walk the Web Rope: http://www.sendspace.com/file/lh54si

Maybe we could start a database for keeping max lemmings saved solutions? I'd be more than willing to help out.

Or a file portal directory...

What does everyone think about adding a description field to the portal?

Offline nobody

  • Posts: 60
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2006, 02:05:07 AM »
100% on Walk the Web Rope: http://www.sendspace.com/file/lh54si

Maybe we could start a database for keeping max lemmings saved solutions? I'd be more than willing to help out.

Or a file portal directory...

What does everyone think about adding a description field to the portal?

Yes, that would probably be a good idea...

I uploaded my 100% run for Taxing 4 - Lend a Helping Hand.... to the web portal. For some reason the water graphic doesn't show up in Lemmix, does anyone else have this problem? Edit: The water tile isn't even being loaded in the level, so if a lemming enters that part of the level he falls off the screen instead of drowning.

Hmmm... it isn't showing up in the portal yet. Here's a sendspace link just in case: http://www.sendspace.com/file/57rc93

Offline ccexplore

  • Posts: 5311
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2006, 02:07:49 AM »
I uploaded my 100% run for Taxing 4 - Lend a Helping Hand.... to the web portal. For some reason the water graphic doesn't show up in Lemmix, does anyone else have this problem?

There should be no water graphics on that level for DOS Lemmings, if I recall correctly.̆ DOS Lemmings is missing water or lava on many levels (as compared to the Amiga or Windows version, say), probably due to memory constraints etc.

Offline nobody

  • Posts: 60
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2006, 02:17:24 AM »
I uploaded my 100% run for Taxing 4 - Lend a Helping Hand.... to the web portal. For some reason the water graphic doesn't show up in Lemmix, does anyone else have this problem?

There should be no water graphics on that level for DOS Lemmings, if I recall correctly.  DOS Lemmings is missing water or lava on many levels (as compared to the Amiga or Windows version, say), probably due to memory constraints etc.

You are right, I just checked. EDIT: Crap, I'm dumb. Didn't read your entire post.

Offline Mindless

  • Posts: 719
  • Inactive - may respond to PM.
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2006, 02:54:21 AM »
100% on Walk the Web Rope: http://www.sendspace.com/file/lh54si

Maybe we could start a database for keeping max lemmings saved solutions? I'd be more than willing to help out.

Or a file portal directory...

What does everyone think about adding a description field to the portal?

Yes, that would probably be a good idea...

I uploaded my 100% run for Taxing 4 - Lend a Helping Hand.... to the web portal. For some reason the water graphic doesn't show up in Lemmix, does anyone else have this problem? Edit: The water tile isn't even being loaded in the level, so if a lemming enters that part of the level he falls off the screen instead of drowning.

Hmmm... it isn't showing up in the portal yet. Here's a sendspace link just in case: http://www.sendspace.com/file/57rc93

Bah, forgot to set permissions, my fault... upload again, please.

Offline ccexplore

  • Posts: 5311
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2006, 05:11:06 AM »
̆ ̆ ̆ ̆ ̆ ̆ ̆ Error during play:
invalid replay header different mechanics.

Hi, this is the change Eric made between 0.0.7.0 and 0.0.8.0.̆ Basically 0.0.7.0's game mechanics for ONML is configured slightly incorrectly.̆ Since the replay solution keeps track of the game mechanics configuration (to ensure correct playback), the Havoc 10 solution I recorded in 0.0.7.0 is "invalid" in that sense (even though it doesn't actually use the aspect of game mechanics that was corrected between the versions).

I have just replaced my Havoc 10 solution with one that is made with 0.0.8.0, which should work on your computer now.̆ As Eric said, you can now go ahead with making replays for ONML levels.̆ Uploaded same place:

http://www.geocities.com/guestlevels/lemmings/challenges

(You might need to hit the browser's "refresh" button to get the new version.̆ The new havoc 10 solution zip file should be dated August 21)

Offline ccexplore

  • Posts: 5311
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2006, 05:14:43 AM »
Or a file portal directory...

Ok, I'll start uploading my solutions to Mindless's portal also.

I'll take a look at the different portals people are setting up and see which one works best.

Offline ccexplore

  • Posts: 5311
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2006, 05:49:07 AM »
Here are 100% solutions for Tricky 22 and Mayhem 7: http://www.sendspace.com/file/ybg1nx

I just viewed that under-1-minute Mayhem 7 solution.  Awesome!  That technique of using a lemming who just turned around at the pole facing left to dig and build is truly clever.

Offline ccexplore

  • Posts: 5311
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2006, 05:55:21 AM »
That Havoc 10 solution was pretty crazy! What exactly caused the first miner to stop mining?

I explained this back when the old forums is still active.̆ Basically it's a glitch in the way the game handles the positioning of a miner, causing it to be momentarily considered to be below the platform even before he breaks through and falls.̆ The transition from mining to "oh-no-ing" (as a result of the explosion countdown reaching 0) causes the miner to stop mining, and then because of the bug about the positioning, the lemming, being below the platform, will start falling as it goes "oh no".

edit: I found the archive of the old forums with the thread that discusses Havoc 10.̆ Go to:

http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/lemmingswelt/forums/?topic=1117597280

and search (Ctrl+F if you use Internet Explorer) for "Havoc 10: save 76% (16/21)" (without the quotes) to read the more detailed explanation.

Offline EricLang

  • Posts: 464
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2006, 06:04:42 AM »
@Tseug: There is a document in Lemmix.zip which explains some of the replay-features.

@Nobody: I enjoyed the "Cascade" solution. I did not know it was possible!

I uploaded
1) Havoc 4 "The race against cliches"
2) Wild 15 save 48-50

 

Offline ccexplore

  • Posts: 5311
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #30 on: August 22, 2006, 07:15:34 AM »
Also, as a request I'd like to see the 100% solution for Taxing 16 (Mary Poppins land).

Request granted.̆ In addition, I also uploaded a solution for Tame 20 that saves 100% and uses no builders.

(From now on all my Lemmix solutions will be uploaded to Mindless's file portal.)

Offline EricLang

  • Posts: 464
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #31 on: August 22, 2006, 07:23:26 AM »
ccexplore in concert...

Another request: a 100% solution for Mayhem 2 (The Boiler Room).

It is easier to open the standard levels with the levelviewer.
1) alt+v
2) v
3) press return (select dos original)
4) type "fro" (incremental search) and you're at tricky 23

For a real lemmingplayer this is less than 1 second work:)


Offline EricLang

  • Posts: 464
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #32 on: August 22, 2006, 07:35:54 AM »
Uploaded the first custompack level solution (jm18.dat Another annoying 1 pixel gap).

Offline EricLang

  • Posts: 464
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2006, 08:55:01 AM »
Crazy 19 100% uploaded

Offline nobody

  • Posts: 60
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2006, 04:20:23 PM »
100% solutions for Mayhem 1, 9 and 25 are now up.

Offline nobody

  • Posts: 60
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2006, 04:29:50 PM »
I uploaded my 49-second solution for Just a Minute (Part Two). Maybe later I'll see if I can shave a few more seconds off.

tseug

  • Guest
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2006, 04:35:21 PM »
Another request: a 100% solution for Mayhem 2 (The Boiler Room).
I don't think anyone is going to try that until there are easy-to-use savestates. (using replay is possible, but it's a pain)

Offline nobody

  • Posts: 60
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #37 on: August 22, 2006, 08:20:59 PM »
Added 100% solution for Taxing 6 - Compression Method 1

I don't think I'm going to bother trying to improve my 49-second solution for Just a Minute Part 2, too much trial and error fiddling with the release rates. There are 19 seconds on the clock when the first lemming finishes bashing, and it takes about two seconds to get from that point to the exit. If you can make it so that the last lemmings to turn around take 1.5-2 seconds to reach the wall on the left (plus another 1.5-2 seconds to come back), then the maximum time left to complete the level should be 13-14 seconds. If somebody wants to try this using my method then go ahead.

Offline nobody

  • Posts: 60
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #38 on: August 22, 2006, 08:27:24 PM »
OK, so I lied. I was able to complete it in 46 seconds. I didn't record it but I did take a screenshot here:

I'll try to get a recording up soon.

EDIT: Recording is now up.

Offline ccexplore

  • Posts: 5311
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #39 on: August 23, 2006, 01:34:45 PM »
Nice job to Nobody once again.

I uploaded the following:

4-skill solution to Mayhem 3 - It`s Hero Time! (uses only builder, basher, miner and digger)
79/80 solution to Wicked 12 - Suicidal Tendencies
100% solution to Wicked 20 - The Lemming Funhouse

I'll probably tackle 100% Wicked 6 sometime this weekend.

As for 100% Mayhem 2, maybe sometime this month?̆ We'll see.

Offline EricLang

  • Posts: 464
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #40 on: August 23, 2006, 07:37:26 PM »
The build + explode between two blockers to free the blockers on a thin platform (in Wicked 12) was a novelty for me.

Is there somewhere a description for the diabolical Mayhem 2 100% solution? I'm getting curious...

I uploaded a Mayhem 29 Build west solution (77/80). It did cost me about 20 replays.
Maybe other or better versions are possible.

BTW: I'm working on savestates and commands like "jump 10 seconds".


tseug

  • Guest
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #41 on: August 23, 2006, 10:57:07 PM »
Here are some screenshots of the 100% mayhem 2 solution:
right half
left half

Although that probably won't help much... :tongue:

EDIT: Once you get savestates working I might try it.

EDIT2: My avatar is one of the screenshots. :winktounge:

Offline ccexplore

  • Posts: 5311
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #42 on: August 24, 2006, 10:49:20 AM »
I'll probably tackle 100% Wicked 6 sometime this weekend.

I got around to it a bit sooner than planned.̆ Uploaded the following:

1) 100%, 4-builder (meaning 4 builders plus various other non-builder skills) solution to Crazy 8
2) 59/60 solution to Wicked 1
3) 100% solution to Wicked 6

Maybe I'll try tackling 100% Mayhem 2 this weekend then.̆ :tongue:

Offline EricLang

  • Posts: 464
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #43 on: August 24, 2006, 08:47:52 PM »
Another one I would like too see is Crazy 1 with losing only one lemming. I tried about 20 times but the explosion time is 6 or 7 frames to long to get it working.
The Wicked 6 was quite shocking for me. I was gazing at all those pointless bridges and suddenly it all becomes clear... Fantastic! The miner becoming a blocker is a nice point too.

EDIT: @Tseug I knew about your avatar. I read it on the old forum.
I need some time on the savestates, because I am having some "release rate adjusting timing problems" (as a result of the replay feature in combination with "hyperspeed" mode).

Offline ccexplore

  • Posts: 5311
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #44 on: August 25, 2006, 07:04:26 AM »
Another one I would like too see is Crazy 1 with losing only one lemming. I tried about 20 times but the explosion time is 6 or 7 frames to long to get it working.

Uploaded.̆ I made the uploaded solution based on my private notes and screenshots, so this is not necessarily the easiest way to go about it; there are definitely variations on the basic idea, some of which may be easier to execute.

You'd want to do a bit of pausing/frame-stepping to better catch what's going on.̆ ̆Naturally, all the action happens at the beginning.

Offline EricLang

  • Posts: 464
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #45 on: August 25, 2006, 09:46:50 AM »
I uploaded a temporary testversion 0.0.9.1 with (only) one savestate for recording Mayhem 2.

In this temp/test/inbetween-version the playing screen has a few extra commands:

"f" (lowercase) =toggle fastforward (already in 0.0.9.0)
"F" (uppercase) = jump one game-minute (17 * 60 frames)
space = jump 10 game-seconds (17 * 10 frames)
Ctrl + F1 = Store current situation as savestate
Shift + F1 = Restore the savestate, saved with Ctrl + F1

Advice: only change RR in paused mode.

http://home.hccnet.nl/ericenzwaan/lemmix/hslemmix.zip
( the hs prefix stands for hyperspeed :) )

Edit: How on earth is the lemmings-crowd going to break through the platform?

tseug

  • Guest
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #46 on: August 25, 2006, 11:50:51 PM »
Edit: How on earth is the lemmings-crowd going to break through the platform?

That's the glitch. It makes the lemmings "jump" up very quickly.

Offline ccexplore

  • Posts: 5311
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #47 on: August 25, 2006, 11:55:27 PM »
Since my 73/75 solution [not to be confused with the 72/75 solution] for Mayhem 10 also uses this "giant leap" glitch, perhaps I can work on that instead and upload it this weekend so you at least get a better idea of what's going on.̆ The 100% Mayhem 2 solution would use the same glitch, though it's quite a bit harder to use on that level since you have to compress the crowd in order to have the glitch affect all of them.

Offline EricLang

  • Posts: 464
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #48 on: August 26, 2006, 06:55:23 AM »
I assume it has to be some particular terrain-bridge construction, because the walkers have to jump up themselves. It it possible to create a level in which this glitch takes places without the player having to do anything?

Offline EricLang

  • Posts: 464
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #49 on: August 26, 2006, 07:13:25 AM »
Well I think I've got it... I'll have a try recording it... (EDIT: Forget this post :))

Offline EricLang

  • Posts: 464
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #50 on: August 26, 2006, 04:54:16 PM »
I uploaded a few maximums:

1) maximum solution for Havoc 20. (at least until now)
2) 100% Taxing 25
3) 79-80 Mayhem 2 (not the real maximum some say, we'll see...)

(as well as my second Wild 15, so one of them can be removed, because it's exactly the same, sorry Mindless...)

Offline ccexplore

  • Posts: 5311
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #51 on: August 27, 2006, 01:20:13 PM »
Since my 73/75 solution [not to be confused with the 72/75 solution] for Mayhem 10 also uses this "giant leap" glitch, perhaps I can work on that instead and upload it this weekend so you at least get a better idea of what's going on.

I've now uploaded to Mindless's file portal a 71/75, a 72/75, and my 73/75 solutions for Mayhem 10.̆ They are all zipped into mayhem10.zip.

71/75 is LemSteven's record; since I didn't ask him what his solution is, the replay is my edcuated guess on how he achieved 71/75.

72/75 is my first improvement on the level; as you can see, it is really a variation on LemSteven's general solution concept, using some tricks/glitches to speed up the construction of the landing place.

73/75 is my second improvement on the level and the current record.̆ It uses the "giant leap" glitch, and is distinctly different from the 71/75 and 72/75.

Offline EricLang

  • Posts: 464
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #52 on: August 27, 2006, 06:55:25 PM »
Spectacular Elevator Effect in Mayhem 10! How many people knew that one?
Who discovered it. Was it by accident?
So this is the effect, used in Mayhem 2.

I would like to see :
-Crazy 1 lose 0 (If people want to try themselves, they can just *not* download it)
-Tricky 27 lose 3 (I can achieve lose 4 and cannot imagine lose 3)






tseug

  • Guest
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #53 on: August 27, 2006, 08:08:11 PM »
I thought tricky 27 was 100%....

I think I'll do lose 10 taxing 28 soon, unless cce does it first. :winktounge:

EDIT: Oh, you mean taxing...

EDIT2: lose 3 taxing 27 is uploaded.

Offline geoo

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 1475
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #54 on: August 27, 2006, 09:31:04 PM »
Nice, I just managed the 100% Crazy 1 solution! I'll send it to you, Eric, and ccexplore to check, via mail (I don't know whether ccexplore would like me to send it to the portal right now).

For the portal, with a lot of really amazing solutions, very good idea. It's just a little bit chaotic in there (although by searching, you easily find what you want), anyway, maybe a kind of 'nomenclature' for the solutions file names would be good for the sake of clearness.

The elevator effect is neat, that's true. IIRC what ccexplore told me, he found it with help of the disassembly. Without knowing it before, I found it out by accident later and used it in a level of mine.
Since ccexplore created a level showing the trick very well for the lemmings remake (http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/lemmingswelt/forums/?topic=1135291547 , search for bigleap.lvl), it shouldn't be a secret anymore.

Offline ccexplore

  • Posts: 5311
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #55 on: August 27, 2006, 09:47:57 PM »
Nice, I just managed the 100% Crazy 1 solution! I'll send it to you, Eric, and ccexplore to check, via mail (I don't know whether ccexplore would like me to send it to the portal right now).

With so many people managing the solution, I can't think of any reason not to upload it to the portal......so I just did that.  I even included 3 solutions:  mine, what I think might be Shvegait's, and geoo89's.

Offline ccexplore

  • Posts: 5311
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #56 on: August 27, 2006, 09:54:07 PM »
IIRC what ccexplore told me, he found it with help of the disassembly.

That's true, although a number of people did discover it independently and by accident.  Also, it's quite possible for someone who's really inquisitive to ask oneself the question:  "what exactly happens when, after a jumper starts jumping, you fill up the step he was jumping to?"  Then armed with CustLemm he could've easily make a level to experiment and discover the answer (the glitch).  (Indeed, if I recall, I had that question in mind first when I looked at the disassembly for answers.)

So I firmly believe that the glitch could've been found and understood by someone without the aid of disassembly.

Offline Shvegait

  • Posts: 772
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #57 on: August 27, 2006, 11:11:57 PM »
With so many people managing the solution, I can't think of any reason not to upload it to the portal......so I just did that.  I even included 3 solutions:  mine, what I think might be Shvegait's, and geoo89's.

Wow! I checked out the solutions, and they are not much like mine at all (except for the first step). It's less elegant than ccexplore's 2 solutions and much less elegant than geoo89's. However! It only needs 3 blockers, so at least that's something :tongue:

I thought it was funny when you said something like "As I expected, Shvegait's solution is basically a variation of mine" as if you talked to me about it! It was only "as you expected" because you found another solution similar to yours that changed the last move  :tongue:

I'll upload a solution in a little bit; I made one, but I think the properties were slightly messed up because I loaded it from the DLEVEL000.DAT file instead of the built-in way for selecting levels. But I can assure you those changes won't affect it one bit.

This is the most interesting thing about Lemmings levels. No matter when you think you've found THE solution, there's always another...

Edit: Uploaded

tseug

  • Guest
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #58 on: August 28, 2006, 04:55:43 AM »
Uploaded lose 10 solution for Taxing 28. You're welcome to go for lose 9... but I think I determined that it was impossible when I first did this on SNES...

Offline EricLang

  • Posts: 464
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #59 on: August 28, 2006, 07:15:05 AM »
@Tseug: Yeah it was Taxing instead of Tricky. I just thought it was impossible, wasting these bridges in the beginning :)
And just when I thought I saw all tricks now, I see a climber locking himself up in the terrain.

@Shvegait: I would like to know which properties are messed up. If you are refering to the mechanics, you can check them out in the generated text file. As far as I know it does not matter how you open the level, because Lemmix wants to assign a LemmingStyle anyway (this is done automatically when using the levelviewer of course)
The main difference between a CustLemm recording and ONML recording can be seen is this line:
Faller Starts With 3 Falling pixels : yes
It's "yes" for ONML and "no" for CustLemm


Offline Shvegait

  • Posts: 772
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #60 on: August 28, 2006, 01:31:49 PM »
OK, it doesn't have to do with how you load it. I think I didn't have the paths (LemmixStyles.ini) set up properly the first time, so it used original Lemmings instead of ONML mechanics (differences in climber shrug bug, ABBA order, and X of window) . I get the correct ONML mechanics now either way.

Offline ccexplore

  • Posts: 5311
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #61 on: August 29, 2006, 01:48:56 PM »
Uploaded lose 10 solution for Taxing 28. You're welcome to go for lose 9... but I think I determined that it was impossible when I first did this on SNES...

I haven't found any way to achieve lose 9 either, there just seems to be too few skills available to avoid using a bomber/blocker, and I can't see a faster way to get the landing place ready in time for one less death.

Offline EricLang

  • Posts: 464
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #62 on: August 29, 2006, 07:22:21 PM »
I tried to beat Havoc 20, but I do not think it is possible.

Requests recordings for the virtuoso's:

Mayhem 29 (Save me) Build West lose 2. I was rather impressed with my own lose 3 recording performance but I think this is just standard technique in here :)

Mayhem 29 (Save me) Build East lose 3.






Offline ccexplore

  • Posts: 5311
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #63 on: August 29, 2006, 07:43:44 PM »
Requests recordings for the virtuoso's:
<snip>
Mayhem 29 (Save me) Build East lose 3.

I will make time for that one and e-mail it to you sometime this week.̆ I'm not making this one public yet since it touches on something I might want to use in my own CustLemm levels.

I do hope to release this to the public at some point since it is definitely a fairly unique solution especially in how it handles the end portion of the level.  It is also what I believe to be the maximum for Amiga and SNES versions, due to the water objects present in those versions of the game making the build-west solutions infeasible.

Offline Proxima

  • Posts: 4570
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #64 on: August 29, 2006, 10:14:17 PM »
I do hope to release this to the public at some point since it is definitely a fairly unique solution especially in how it handles the end portion of the level.  It is also what I believe to be the maximum for Amiga and SNES versions, due to the water objects present in those versions of the game making the build-west solutions infeasible.
Just for the record, is that the same for the Mac as well?

tseug

  • Guest
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #65 on: August 29, 2006, 11:27:49 PM »
I'm not making this one public yet since it touches on something I might want to use in my own CustLemm levels.

On the other forum you said what skills it uses, and it's not that hard to deduce what it is from the skills used. I can see why you would want to use it in a level. :winktounge: Speaking of which.... have you made any yet?

Offline ccexplore

  • Posts: 5311
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #66 on: August 30, 2006, 12:52:22 AM »
On the other forum you said what skills it uses, and it's not that hard to deduce what it is from the skills used. I can see why you would want to use it in a level. :winktounge:

Your comment is, hmm, somewhat unexpected.

I guess I did mention enough to form a rough outline of the solution but I definitely leave out much details, particularly with the end portion.̆ I would be somewhat impressed if you actually deduce exactly how I accomplish the end section.̆ As for the trick I might use in my own level, it isn't even a glitch of any sort, and it is not involved in the end section.

So feel free to PM what you've guessed and deduced.̆ I won't necessarily tell you if you're right or not but it'd certainly be amusing to me no doubt.

Quote
Speaking of which.... have you made any yet?

Well, I guess only two, and both are actually currently released only as Cheapo versions ("If Only They Could Swim" and that nuke-only level).̆ I have LemEdit versions of those levels for quite a while, although for both I intend to do some extra decorating before the levels are finalized.

I have ideas (ranging from some very definite ones to a few more vague ones) for the remaining 8 levels, but the problem is I need to take time to design the terrain, especially the portions that are decorational rather than functional.̆ I also need to think about how to put red herrings in a good number of the levels so it's not too straightforward.̆ And a number of my "ideas" need some additional stuff to make a satisfying level.  Oh, and of course there'll always be the lookout for backroutes.

I can tell you the following though, when (maybe if) I ever finished the 10 levels:

1) With the exception of one level, glitches are not required for the levelpak.̆ And even that one level that uses glitches, does not use obscure or outrageous glitches, and the title will even tell you more or less what the glitches are.

2) I will try to avoid pixel precision, although there will probably be two or three that has pixel precision required in one or two places.

3) I think the levelpak will, at least on average, not be as hard as something like geoo89's or tseug's (actually I haven't even looked at tseug's yet so I can't say for sure).̆ It will definitely on average be harder than Mayhem rating.̆ There will be no special graphics levels.

Just for the record, is that the same for the Mac as well?

No, the build-east 77/80 solution doesn't work on the Mac, due to subtle differences with builders there (I explained this a few times in the old lemmings challenge thread so this isn't exactly a secret or anything).̆ However, due to the same difference, build-west solutions can be glitch-free on the Mac (ie. don't need to dig down on the steel), so I think 77/80 itself is still possible.̆ Possibly even 78/80, but I haven't looked at that in any details yet for the Mac so take that thought with a grain of salt.

Offline ccexplore

  • Posts: 5311
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #67 on: August 30, 2006, 12:57:56 AM »
Possibly even 78/80, but I haven't looked at that in any details yet for the Mac so take that thought with a grain of salt.

Actually, although I still haven't tried this out in any details, you probably want to scrap that thought anyway.  I just recalled how the 100% Taxing 6 solution doesn't work on the Mac apparently due to differences in steel detection.  Since there's also steel bashing (as far as I understood) on the 78/80 solution, there's a good chance it won't work on the Mac either in the same way 100% Taxing 6 is affected.

Offline ccexplore

  • Posts: 5311
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #68 on: August 30, 2006, 06:41:46 AM »
I have ideas (ranging from some very definite ones to a few more vague ones) for the remaining 8 levels, but the problem

Hah!  I forgot one more problem:  the longer I take, the more likely other people will beat to me first in making a level with the same/similar idea!

I just take a quick look at tseug's levelpak and there it is, one level that uses the very idea I have for one of my own.  Worse, he made it way too obvious.

Oh well, I guess that's my fault for not creating the levels quick enough, it is to be expected really.  At least it's a tseug level and geoo89 found the levels difficult in general, so maybe I can still release my version of it later and most other people wouldn't have solved either yet.  :devil: :tongue:

tseug

  • Guest
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #69 on: September 10, 2006, 12:34:52 AM »
100% Mayhem 2 is done. :laugh: I modified my solution a bit.

Offline EricLang

  • Posts: 464
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #70 on: September 10, 2006, 03:06:30 PM »
So at last. Very nice!
And when understanding the Giant Leap alias Elevator glitch it's a clean and playable solution. Difficult but playable.
I never tried the climbing in that area :)
Could you describe your first solution?

tseug

  • Guest
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #71 on: September 10, 2006, 05:09:36 PM »
My first solution used the glitch further to the left. Besides that it was pretty much the same. You can see the difference in my avatar.
It wasn't as efficient because it took more bridges to get the last climbers up. There were also 5 climbers left instead of 3, because I didn't do the right side of level as precisely.

Offline ccexplore

  • Posts: 5311
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #72 on: September 12, 2006, 04:13:13 AM »
100% Mayhem 2 is done. :laugh: I modified my solution a bit.

Nice! :thumbsup:

It actually didn't seem too bad in terms of challenges, I was worried that you'd need to make all sorts of adjustments with the RR but it looks like RR=38 once and you're good to go.̆ I'd imagine the hardest part would be to get 6 build-bricks to stack vertically.  How many retries did it take to finish it in Lemmix?

I also liked how you set up the crowd-holder on the right side, I don't think I would've done it as efficiently as you did.

tseug

  • Guest
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #73 on: September 12, 2006, 04:45:40 AM »
100% Mayhem 2 is done. :laugh: I modified my solution a bit.

Nice! :thumbsup:

It actually didn't seem too bad in terms of challenges, I was worried that you'd need to make all sorts of adjustments with the RR but it looks like RR=38 once and you're good to go.  I'd imagine the hardest part would be to get 6 build-bricks to stack vertically.  How many retries did it take to finish it in Lemmix?

I also liked how you set up the crowd-holder on the right side, I don't think I would've done it as efficiently as you did.

It actually took very few replays. I stacked the bricks perfectly so that wasn't a problem (there are two frames where each step will work, so it isn't really that hard). The left side took one replay. There was another for releasing the crowd. The only others were for the crowd holder, I think 2 or 3. It helps a lot that I remembered all the specifics...

When I did this on Genesis the crowd holder was much more limited. There weren't any builders left over and there were 100 lemmings so the compression space had to be small.

tseug

  • Guest
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #74 on: September 16, 2006, 09:41:04 PM »
I just made replays of 100% Havoc 2 and 18 because I was bored. I remember someone on the other forum saying they couldn't think of how to do these. Should I upload them or are they obvious?

Offline EricLang

  • Posts: 464
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #75 on: September 17, 2006, 05:48:40 AM »
Tseug, what is obvious to you is may be an eye opener to someone else :)

tseug

  • Guest
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #76 on: September 17, 2006, 06:10:42 AM »
Hehe, I'll upload them once the portal is working again.

EDIT: Done.

Offline Mindless

  • Posts: 719
  • Inactive - may respond to PM.
    • View Profile
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #77 on: September 17, 2006, 12:39:52 PM »
Hehe, I'll upload them once the portal is working again.
:cry: Host is down due to power surges... hopefully it will be back soon.

tseug

  • Guest
Re: lemmings challenge solutions available for your viewing pleasure
« Reply #78 on: September 17, 2006, 08:58:58 PM »
I did Havoc 4 in a very unusual way. It uses no floaters and leaves 32 seconds. It's quite different from the other solutions....

EDIT: uploaded