Author Topic: [Neolemmix] Unusual Lemmings [Difficulty: Medium - Hard]  (Read 3018 times)

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Offline Duuddu

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[Neolemmix] Unusual Lemmings [Difficulty: Medium - Hard]
« on: March 10, 2023, 12:17:25 AM »
Unusual Lemmings
======================================================================================
It's a small level pack, with only 3 ranks and 5 levels in each rank. (Only 15 levels in total)


Ranks:

Easy - Introducing the pack, with some tricks while starting to increase the difficulty for the next rank.
Normal - More tricky and precise, preparing you for the final rank.
Hard - The hardest levels of this pack are here, using a lot of you know about Neolemmix.

This pack follows the same style of my two previous ones, "Godlems" and "Lemmings Surges".
======================================================================================

If you complete this level pack, if possible, send me the replays and a feedback for the futures levels pack that I'll do. Fell free to stream in any place or post on Youtube.

======================================================================================
2 musics are attached for levels "Easy 2" and "Hard 1". Just extract the folder in your music folder of neolemmix.

How to play:
-If you don't have NeoLemmix, download it from https://www.neolemmix.com/.
-Download this level pack and extract on the paste levels of your NeoLemmix. (if you don't have the paste levels, you can create one).
-Run the Neolemmix.exe and press F2 to access the pack through the level browser.
-Have fun playing Lemmings
« Last Edit: March 21, 2023, 09:16:26 PM by Duuddu »

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: [Neolemmix] Unusual Lemmings [Difficulty: Medium - Hard]
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2023, 10:41:27 PM »
Onto my To-Play List it goes. :)

Offline Duuddu

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Re: [Neolemmix] Unusual Lemmings [Difficulty: Medium - Hard]
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2023, 11:22:29 PM »
Onto my To-Play List it goes. :)

I hope this one take more than one day, counting by when you start to play it :D

Online kaywhyn

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Re: [Neolemmix] Unusual Lemmings [Difficulty: Medium - Hard]
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2023, 11:04:55 AM »
Hi Duuddu,

I have solved all of the pack, so here are my replays. Also, I did an LP of the pack: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbp2m4KlFpJtqh8xRVPUf5sfNRt6v8pgm. Enjoy! :P

General Feedback

Unusual Lemmings is the newest level pack by Duuddu and follows the exact same format as his two previous level packs Surge Lemmings and Godlems: 3 ranks called Easy, Normal, and Hard, with 5 levels each. If any of his previous work is any indication, the Easy rank certainly is more misnamed with every subsequent pack. I found them to be anything but easy except for Easy 1.

Other than Hard 1, the Normal rank actually took me the longest due to Normal 1, Normal 2, and Normal 4. These 3 pretty much all use a similar concept so that by the time you get to Hard 1 IMHO this was overdone to death. As I recall, this isn't a very well-liked trick due to how very fiddly and the extreme precision needed to pull it off. So, my advice would be to avoid making levels requiring this in future packs, especially since this has already been done with Surge Lemmings with Hard 1, and Icho and I called it out for the precision harming the level. There are definitely far better level ideas than that!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Even then, I would still give this pack a go, after Duuddu takes onboard the feedback and suggestions to make any necessary updates to fix backroutes and possibly also to reduce the precision on some levels, such as the ones mentioned.

Easy Rank Feedback

Supposedly the easiest rank due to being the first rank, this still isn't a complete pushover, as has been the case of the Easy ranks in Duuddu's previous level packs as well. Easy 1, along with Normal 3, were pretty much the quickest solves of the pack. Easy 2 took me the longest and definitely far longer than it should had. I would consider this one a bit too hard for its position. Yes, it might be a 1-of-everything and really short, but figuring out the solution is still challenging.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The rest of the levels in the rank weren't too bad, although the next hardest for me was Easy 4. Despite being a builders only level, it's quite hard despite being allowed 2 losses. There's 8 builders, and they're all required to get up to the wall where the exit is. So, it's a matter of fiddling with the RR until you get the solution to work, and this took a lot of tweaking before it worked!

For Easy 3, not as hard as the previous level, but this can still be challenging.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Finally, Easy 5 is very obvious what needs to be done, but if you're not aware of the idea required then it can be a roadblock.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Normal Rank Feedback

As mentioned, other than Hard 1, this rank took me the longest to complete due to Normal 1, Normal 2, and Normal 4. Still some decent puzzles here!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Hard Rank Feedback

Hard 1 is the hardest level of the rank, not unlike the other Hard 1's from Duuddu's other level packs. The extreme precision is what really harms Hard 1 here as well, to the point that I raged at the level during the time I solved the level off-camera. My advice would be to just avoid making levels that require this in the future. As far as I understand, the trick needed isn't very well-liked, and I haven't seen any other custom levels require it other than Duuddu's packs. The thing I find very confusing is if you been told by both Icho and me that the trick isn't well-liked and the resulting frustration in our experience of solving the Hard 1's, then why keep making levels like them ???

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


As usual, it may be a short pack but don't expect it to be a quick solve, if any of Duuddu's packs is any indication to go by. Even then, I would still give this pack a go, especially after a patch is released to fix backroutes and maybe to reduce precision on the levels I mentioned or possibly replace if they feel needed.

Thanks for the pack Duuddu! Don't take my rage at Hard 1 personally, those are really my honest feelings on the level, as I be lying if I said it didn't make me rage. You have great level ideas, but the one needed on Hard 1 and in the previous Hard 1 in Surge Lemmings isn't one of them. There's far better level ideas than that ;)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline MASTER-88

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Re: [Neolemmix] Unusual Lemmings [Difficulty: Medium - Hard]
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2023, 05:38:52 PM »
Not complain guys. This man make some real lemmings levels. I personally stuck levels which contains those insane build blocks. I didn´t even knew there is way make block like this. This is actually awesome pack. Old school lemmings levels and old school skills. Just hard and rage levels. Those is all what we need. You can always play easier packs, if you want easy levels. This pack not contains easy levels

This man Determinte easy mode different than i determine. His easy levels was also brutally HARD IMO.

Very great Pack. I´ll recommend. Definitely not "noob" players. I personally like style like Lemmings plus 1 pack. Its start very easy and goes harder at end. Its my own style make levels. I´ll know how hard is it make lemmings levels which are hard. Very usually enduranece levels are easy, because a lot routes. Levels with releaserate manipulatulations and etc..... Break my brains.

For sure this one most great lemmings pack ever using old skills. Great job.
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Lemmings Custom + Triology 394 Levels
Custom +1 (120 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5840.0
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Custom +3 (150 Levels)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6014.0
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Offline Duuddu

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Re: [Neolemmix] Unusual Lemmings [Difficulty: Medium - Hard]
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2023, 09:52:53 PM »
Hi Kaywhyn, thank you by the Feedback!

Overall, I saw your solutions and, in general, it was like original. As you was the first one to complete this pack, it had some backroutes (Easy 1, Easy 4, Normal 2, Normal 3, Hard 3). I'll fix these in a patch, with a quality of life change to eliminate the super-precise solutions (Hard 1)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
.

In general i think you solved the pack very fast, like my two previous ones. In my opinion Hard 2 was the level that should take the longest, and your solution was exactly the indeed! 

About the misleading of difficulties, it's cause Godlems (the first LP in this format) had some real easy levels. And the step-ups in difficulties is something that I need to improve cause I don't know how the third person should play...

About Hard 1
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
. But I understand that Lemmings being a puzzle game, puzzle levels are more fun, I'll focus on these for my future levels packs.

I'm looking foward to watch your LP on YouTube this weekend, and see your real-time opinions at it.

Hi Duuddu,

I have solved all of the pack, so here are my replays. Also, I did an LP of the pack: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbp2m4KlFpJtqh8xRVPUf5sfNRt6v8pgm. Enjoy! :P

General Feedback

Unusual Lemmings is the newest level pack by Duuddu and follows the exact same format as his two previous level packs Surge Lemmings and Godlems: 3 ranks called Easy, Normal, and Hard, with 5 levels each. If any of his previous work is any indication, the Easy rank certainly is more misnamed with every subsequent pack. I found them to be anything but easy except for Easy 1.

Other than Hard 1, the Normal rank actually took me the longest due to Normal 1, Normal 2, and Normal 4. These 3 pretty much all use a similar concept so that by the time you get to Hard 1 IMHO this was overdone to death. As I recall, this isn't a very well-liked trick due to how very fiddly and the extreme precision needed to pull it off. So, my advice would be to avoid making levels requiring this in future packs, especially since this has already been done with Surge Lemmings with Hard 1, and Icho and I called it out for the precision harming the level. There are definitely far better level ideas than that!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Even then, I would still give this pack a go, after Duuddu takes onboard the feedback and suggestions to make any necessary updates to fix backroutes and possibly also to reduce the precision on some levels, such as the ones mentioned.

Easy Rank Feedback

Supposedly the easiest rank due to being the first rank, this still isn't a complete pushover, as has been the case of the Easy ranks in Duuddu's previous level packs as well. Easy 1, along with Normal 3, were pretty much the quickest solves of the pack. Easy 2 took me the longest and definitely far longer than it should had. I would consider this one a bit too hard for its position. Yes, it might be a 1-of-everything and really short, but figuring out the solution is still challenging.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The rest of the levels in the rank weren't too bad, although the next hardest for me was Easy 4. Despite being a builders only level, it's quite hard despite being allowed 2 losses. There's 8 builders, and they're all required to get up to the wall where the exit is. So, it's a matter of fiddling with the RR until you get the solution to work, and this took a lot of tweaking before it worked!

For Easy 3, not as hard as the previous level, but this can still be challenging.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Finally, Easy 5 is very obvious what needs to be done, but if you're not aware of the idea required then it can be a roadblock.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Normal Rank Feedback

As mentioned, other than Hard 1, this rank took me the longest to complete due to Normal 1, Normal 2, and Normal 4. Still some decent puzzles here!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Hard Rank Feedback

Hard 1 is the hardest level of the rank, not unlike the other Hard 1's from Duuddu's other level packs. The extreme precision is what really harms Hard 1 here as well, to the point that I raged at the level during the time I solved the level off-camera. My advice would be to just avoid making levels that require this in the future. As far as I understand, the trick needed isn't very well-liked, and I haven't seen any other custom levels require it other than Duuddu's packs. The thing I find very confusing is if you been told by both Icho and me that the trick isn't well-liked and the resulting frustration in our experience of solving the Hard 1's, then why keep making levels like them ???

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


As usual, it may be a short pack but don't expect it to be a quick solve, if any of Duuddu's packs is any indication to go by. Even then, I would still give this pack a go, especially after a patch is released to fix backroutes and maybe to reduce precision on the levels I mentioned or possibly replace if they feel needed.

Thanks for the pack Duuddu! Don't take my rage at Hard 1 personally, those are really my honest feelings on the level, as I be lying if I said it didn't make me rage. You have great level ideas, but the one needed on Hard 1 and in the previous Hard 1 in Surge Lemmings isn't one of them. There's far better level ideas than that ;)

Offline Duuddu

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Re: [Neolemmix] Unusual Lemmings [Difficulty: Medium - Hard]
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2023, 10:30:55 PM »
Hi Master-88!

I share the same opinion that some rage levels are good sometimes, for example, I was very realized when I finally solved "Triple Trouble" from the original lemmings. And yes, the public for this Level Pack are not begginers, I think we already have a lot of Level Packs with good begginers levels on the forum.

"For sure this one most great lemmings pack ever using old skills. Great job."
Thank you by the feedback (besides it uses some Neolemmix Skills)

Not complain guys. This man make some real lemmings levels. I personally stuck levels which contains those insane build blocks. I didn´t even knew there is way make block like this. This is actually awesome pack. Old school lemmings levels and old school skills. Just hard and rage levels. Those is all what we need. You can always play easier packs, if you want easy levels. This pack not contains easy levels

This man Determinte easy mode different than i determine. His easy levels was also brutally HARD IMO.

Very great Pack. I´ll recommend. Definitely not "noob" players. I personally like style like Lemmings plus 1 pack. Its start very easy and goes harder at end. Its my own style make levels. I´ll know how hard is it make lemmings levels which are hard. Very usually enduranece levels are easy, because a lot routes. Levels with releaserate manipulatulations and etc..... Break my brains.

For sure this one most great lemmings pack ever using old skills. Great job.

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: [Neolemmix] Unusual Lemmings [Difficulty: Medium - Hard]
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2023, 07:55:47 PM »
Here are my solutions. :)

I also must admit that this time the focus lied on too many very fiddly or timing heavy stuff for my liking.

There were some really good ones like Hard 2 or Easy 3, but I really would advice to rely less on tight timings and fiddly shenanigans to create the difficulty.

Still a nice little pack though! :)

Offline namida

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Re: [Neolemmix] Unusual Lemmings [Difficulty: Medium - Hard]
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2023, 09:32:00 PM »
Quote
There were some really good ones like Hard 2 or Easy 3, but I really would advice to rely less on tight timings and fiddly shenanigans to create the difficulty.

One particular point I'd bring up here, that took me a long time to realise for my own levels: Execution difficulty feels the same for you as it does for someone else playing your level. Solving difficulty, on the other hand, is different - you know the solution to your level, you never have to figure it out. This makes it seem like your own execution-difficulty levels are always hard, whereas your puzzle-based ones are always easy; however in reality, the puzzles are much harder for other people who play your levels.
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Online kaywhyn

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Re: [Neolemmix] Unusual Lemmings [Difficulty: Medium - Hard]
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2023, 10:47:29 PM »
I also must admit that this time the focus lied on too many very fiddly or timing heavy stuff for my liking.

Ok, good to know that I wasn't crazy in my feedback then! :thumbsup: My thought was that if Icho plays through this pack, I"m sure he would be in agreement with my thought that the fiddly stuff was a bit overdone this time. Indeed, we're in complete agreement there! ;)

One particular point I'd bring up here, that took me a long time to realise for my own levels: Execution difficulty feels the same for you as it does for someone else playing your level. Solving difficulty, on the other hand, is different - you know the solution to your level, you never have to figure it out. This makes it seem like your own execution-difficulty levels are always hard, whereas your puzzle-based ones are always easy; however in reality, the puzzles are much harder for other people who play your levels.

Yea, I realized this recently when I was doing my co-commentating LP videos on nin10doadict's Casulemmings pack a while back. In the Troll rank especially, he guarantees you will suffer physically and therefore recommends not doing it all in one go. Well, the thing is he had to go through the same experience and suffer as he needed to verify that the levels were still solvable when making his own solving replays for his levels.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0