Cheapo Level Pack Topic

[Ice_Eagle]

Anyone worked on a Cheapo level or set? Post them here or talk about them.

Sets posted so far:

Isu:
Isulemms: http://www.geocities.com/piainp/Both_Isulemms.zip
Style Trial: http://www.geocities.com/piainp/Style_Trial.zip
Lemmings Classic 38% Version: http://www.geocities.com/piainp/LemmingsClassic_V0.38.zip
Lemmings Classic Loopy 23: http://www.geocities.com/piainp/Loopylev.zip

drum:
Why Bother?: http://www.freewebs.com/toadontheroad/lemwhybother.set
The Real Mr. Lemming: http://www.freewebs.com/toadontheroad/lemreal.set
Here's Where I Draw The Line: http://www.freewebs.com/toadontheroad/hereswhere.set

geoo89:
OldTemple Level: http://207.58.177.175/~geoo89/lemmings/Temple.lev
Sports Level: http://207.58.177.175/~geoo89/lemmings/SportsLevel.lev
Exit Searching Level: http://207.58.177.175/~geoo89/lemmings/Exit.set
geoo89's First Set: http://207.58.177.175/~geoo89/lemmings/gSet00(2).set

Ice_Eagle:
Sets 1 and 2: http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php?cmd=get&file=cheapo/IceEagle1and2upd.zip
Set 3: http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php?cmd=get&file=cheapo/IceEagle3upd.zip

[Mr. K]

I've got a little something coming soon.  It's right now called Ksoft Lemmings, and it uses the classic Copycat Lemmings graphic sets.  It also has a new soundtrack of 20 songs, using ccexplore's Cheapo MOD hack.  I'm about... 8 levels in.

[Ice_Eagle]

That sounds cool. I can't wait to play it.

I made two Cheapo packs so far, and they both use a lot of different styles.

[Isu]

These are my current releases so far:

19-09-04 Isulemms & Isulemms 2
Fail levels are fail.

30-04-05 Style Trial
Less fail, but not DMA levels of win either.

01-11-04 Lemmings Classic (Currently only 38% complete)
This was supposed to be a set of non-fail levels that are actually win. Explains why there has been so many revisions. I suck at level designing. Some levels still need inserting/removing/altering, and some aren't playable at all. I lost the lst file when my hard drive died, so it's impossible for me to continue with this. This is as "Complete" Lemmings Classic will get.

Styles not included

[Ice_Eagle]

I think your Style Trial needs more style levels, as there are many new styles made. But you probably couldn't do so, because of your Lemmings Classic.

[Isu]

Got it in one!

Although, it's probably more due to the fact that I'm lazy  :winktounge:

[Isu]

This level needs backroute testing, I'd post it on the old forum but, too much lag get's Isu down.

Loopy 23

EDIT: This was level 23, the finished set has it later, so It's not Level 23 anymore

This level is currently Loopy 23 in Lemmings Classic, I really only want there to be one solution, I can't help shaking the feeling that this has a backroute, so I need reassuring. :cool:

[SeriousGamer]

I solved it, and the solution didn't seem like a backroute, but I didn't put every tool to use.

Edited to include solution:
Use timed bombers to blow up the first five steps so the lemmings can walk up, bash over the one way walls, and turn the release rate up to 99.

[Isu]

Oh No!

That was actually the route that I was trying to prevent, but I never thought of bashing OVER the one way wall. Of course you won't put every tool to use, You need to save 95/100 (97 now), and you've got 8 bombers.

Update: Same Link

[Proxima]

Probably a backroute, as it didn't need much precision:

RR80. First lemming from the top exit is a blocker and then immediately a bomber. He will turn three lemmings round before he explodes -- make them all floaters. First one blocks, second one bombs, third one bashes to the right from the bottom of the bomb hole. RR99 and bomb the blocker.

[Isu]

That is no backroute.

[drum]

16-05-05: Why Bother? Author: The Purpletraitor. Size: 729kb

One of the greatest Cheapo level packs ever created. 30 epic, artistic, cunning levels for you to gape in awe at!

16-05-05: The Real Mr. Lemming. Author: drumnbach. Size: 92.7kb

A steady learning curve permeates these 10 decent levels, all based on my favourite compositions, books and films.

19-10-05: Here's Where I Draw The Line. Authors: The Purpletraitor and drumnbach. Size: 56.6kb

Another great level pack. 5 more artistic and ingenious levels, all in the vein of 'Why Bother?'.

[geoo]

Oh No!

That was actually the route that I was trying to prevent, but I never thought of bashing OVER the one way wall. Of course you won't put every tool to use, You need to save 95/100 (97 now), and you've got 8 bombers.

Update: Same Link

Alternative solution to Michael's:
RR99; have the first one from the bottom entrance bash into the wall as soon as he reaches it. Make the one to last lemming of the upper entrance blocker. Make the last one from the upper entrance floater + bomber (can use a blocker) to bomb a pit into the lower floor at the bottom.
Bomb the basher (blocker recommended) when he's in front of this pit to get a way up for the other lemmings.

[Ice_Eagle]

Good news! I've gotten back to making Cheapo sets!

Check my signature at the bottom; it tells how many levels are made so far.

[geoo]

Mystery set sounds interesting. What is it supposed to be about? Or is that also a mystery until the release?

I've come up with a new level in Juanjo's OldTemple style, and updated my old set:
http://207.58.177.175/~geoo89/lemmings/Temple.lev, style can be found on
Garjen's page

Here are also the links to my older Cheapo levels:
Not so old one: http://207.58.177.175/~geoo89/lemmings/SportsLevel.lev, requires Isu's Sports style
An exit searching level I made when I had solved Insane Steve's 'Dude, Where's my Exit?": http://207.58.177.175/~geoo89/lemmings/Exit.set, requires L3-Classic.sty

My first (and for now only) Cheapo set, updated version: http://207.58.177.175/~geoo89/lemmings/gSet00(2).set (doesn't seem to like the brackets :?)
Changed: - Level order
- fixed level 'Capturing difficulties' and added '"Boring builder level"'
- put all updated levels into the pack

[Ice_Eagle]

The mystery set is indeed a mystery. When released each of the 15 levels contain something special in them.

geoo89, I liked the first level "Captured by Pillars". Nice trick used there!   Unfortunately I couldn't beat the other levels yet; they were quite hard.  

Here's Sets 1 and 2. These levels are quite fun, especially when going for 100% in them. Both sets use a lot of different styles.

Set 1 contains 40 levels. They use a lot of different styles, but none of them are Lemmus styles. As for the levels, a lot of them are quite fun. Some fun ones are "Bublaria," "Get to the Portkey!," "Wacky Walls," and more.

Set 2 contains 24 levels. Some of the levels were not as fun as the ones in set 1, but 99% of them are 100% possible. One level is very special, as it contains two characters from two movies.

UPDATES: "The Retarded Level" is now Level 26, and I've completely rejected the level "Needles," and replaced it with a new one, "Up the Top," which is Level 24. For set 2, Level 15 has the new level, "Any way you want!" with a few rearrangements in the set.

[Ice_Eagle]

So Nuntar, want to review those two new levels I posted up?

[geoo]

Hey, give him a little more time.

For "Up the Top", the walls look a bit strange, and once you worked out the solution, it gets a little boring. Other than that, no bad solution idea, bit too easy for my taste, but that's not everyone's.
"Any way you want!" is not too hard once you know the trick, however it makes you think how to contain the crowd and if you don't know how to get up, it should take you a while (I think).

[Ice_Eagle]

Sorry. I just like reading reviews from other people! It excites me!

I make Fun to Tricky difficulty levels, so most of my levels may be easy for you, but some are quite fun.

[Proxima]

The link doesn't seem to be working.........  :cry:

[geoo]

Remove the //url, or http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php?cmd=get&file=cheapo/IceEagle1and2upd.zip

[Ice_Eagle]

So, Nuntar, did you have comments on the two new levels yet?

Meanwhile, I'm 9 levels away from finishing the set, but some need testing still.

[Proxima]

"Up the Top" was fun...... I see that you turned a trick I showed you in one of my 100% solutions into the main solution!    A bit weird to see a Prince level without the Prince music, but with such a long level it would get boring.

I don't have the style for the other.....

[Ice_Eagle]

That might probably be because you don't have the right version of Lemmings Racers.

I sent you a new version of the style through email, which includes the new objects including the water.

[Proxima]

Thanks  

OK, that was also a fun level. I took the top route, so finding unexpected metal above the exit was nasty    but I finished with 30 builders spare.... I think even 40 might be possible with care........

[Ice_Eagle]

Set 3 is now done! Alright! 

http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php?cmd=get&file=cheapo/IceEagle3.zip

This time, set 3 may be a bit harder than Set 2. But the levels are much more special-looking than before.

You need to include the "Red Beach.sty" in your styles folder. It's an updated version with new musics. This applies to levels 20 and 23.

I can't wait for your comments on my new levels, Nuntar!

[Proxima]

I'm trying them out, a few at a time   

One criticism: the upside-down "MENACING" was great fun (those irregular strands can be a real obstacle at times) but placing the upside-down "What an awesome level!" as the very next level was a big mistake. Long levels with lots of building can be OK when they have other good features, but two in a row is just meh.

EDIT: oh, and I seem to be missing the style for Level 10.

[Ice_Eagle]

Style for Level 10: http://www.garjen.co.uk/Download.php?l=9&f=RedDragons2

So do you have any comments on my levels yet?

[Proxima]

Tomorrow, when I have a bit more free time.  :cool:  But I am working on my dissertation now, so it may take a couple of weeks before I get round to trying all 30.

[Isu]

Ice Eagle, quit stealing my level ideas. :tongue:

[Ice_Eagle]

What??  :huh: I didn't take any ideas from you! No, really and truthfully.

EDIT: The level "It's my username!" was not a stolen idea from you, Isu. I thought of that one on my own without getting the idea from your username level.

[Proxima]

So, reviews of the first ten levels  :cool:

1. Nice level; probably my favourite so far. I like ones where you have to think a bit.....
2. This one was great fun with navigating those horrible strands; exasperating at times, which is also good.
3. As I said, it was a mistake to put this one next. Too tedious, especially with having to restart so often because it's very hard to see what's terrain and what isn't.
4. A very simple level (I went under all the obstacles). Nice to have one that isn't all building, though.
5. This one required some thought, mainly because it hadn't really sunk in that I only had ten lemmings. Challenge time: do you know how to pass this with only SEVEN builders?
6. I didn't like this one. Mainly because I tried going up the right-hand side first and wasted a lot of time and effort when it turned out to be impossible. Once I tried going up the left, by contrast, it was just easy.
7. Sigh. Was this one really necessary?
8. Short and fun. I actually went for the right exit the first time, even though the left one is a lot easier.
9. Another cool level... albeit one I didn't manage to save 100% on! Fun and relaxing though.
10. This one just reminds me of why I hate the dragons style. Was it really necessary to make it nearly impossible to spot when they're shrugging *and* have a level with lots of building? Oh, and the exit being off the ground was a bit unfair.

[Isu]

What?? :huh: I didn't take any ideas from you! No, really and truthfully.

EDIT: The level "It's my username!" was not a stolen idea from you, Isu. I thought of that one on my own without getting the idea from your username level.

That's okay, I was only joking. :cool:

[Ice_Eagle]

5. This one required some thought, mainly because it hadn't really sunk in that I only had ten lemmings. Challenge time: do you know how to pass this with only SEVEN builders?
7. Sigh. Was this one really necessary?
10. This one just reminds me of why I hate the dragons style. Was it really necessary to make it nearly impossible to spot when they're shrugging *and* have a level with lots of building? Oh, and the exit being off the ground was a bit unfair.

5. Nope.
7. What's wrong with it? I thought the level was a cool addition!
10. I did tell you that it was a dragons style. And about the exit being off the ground, it was an accident. I will fix that.

If you dislike unfair levels, skip level 13. That one's totally unfair.

I did try making some levels in this set that use less builders and more of the non-builder skills, btw.

[Proxima]

5. Nope.

Right  :cool:  Want me to tell you, or want to try for yourself?

[Ice_Eagle]

I can try myself first.

EDIT: I solved it!

Hightlight:
Have the first lemming on the top dig on the right, but make sure it's over the right wall with the space underneath. The lemming on the top behind it must trap the others by digging and building. Meanwhile, on the bottom, the first lemming that comes out builds 3 steps, then blocks. Wait until the top lemming finishes digging so the others could climb it. Only one must climb the newly dug passage, however. After assigning this to that one lemming on the bottom and he climbs to the top he must dig a few pixels, mine a little bit, build to turn, and build across the gap. Then he builds two bridges to the exit. Then, to escape, the top lemmings should become athletes. The bottom's a bit trickier. You have to make the walking lemmings climbers, except for one. That one must bash to free the blocker. The freed blocker must build a bridge, then mine back. Same for the one that mined. Then make them climbers.

EDIT2: I now made the seven-builder-solution in my fourth set!

[chaos_defrost]

Ice Eagle, when I try and download your set, I keep getting a 0 byte .zip folder -- which I assume is my problem and not yours. Any other way I can download it?

[Ice_Eagle]

E-mail? If you want it I can send it to you, but you need to PM me your e-mail address.

Or.. have you tried right-clicking the link, then "Save Target As..." yet?

[chaos_defrost]

Ya, I'll PM the e-mail address... save target as doesn't work, either... and this isn't the first time I've had problems downloading from that site.

[Ice_Eagle]

Email sent.

Btw, you should upload your packs so others could play them, Insane Steve.

[Proxima]

I can try myself first.

EDIT: I solved it!

Ah, you found one trick that I missed.    So now try six!!!

[geoo]

I'm quite certain that the theoretical minimum is 1 builder. I checked all the required moves and they work. But execution would be quite a pain due to the exact timing.
But you could pay builders for an easier execution (removing timing). Using four builders it shouldn't be too bad at all.

[Proxima]

Bah. We really need to do something about these glitches now that they've started ruining the game for the rest of us.

[Ice_Eagle]

I can try myself first.

EDIT: I solved it!

Ah, you found one trick that I missed.    So now try six!!!

Simple. The solution is: The solution is almost the same as the seven-builder-solution one, except instead of trapping the lemmings by digging and building, you dig a few pixels, bash, then dig in the middle of the right side. Do not dig near the left or right or it won't work. Make sure to make the top lemmings that came with the digger climbers when it's time for them to escape.

[Isu]

This is a bit of a pointless post, but I've finally solved Insane Steve's "The walk-in closet of hell"!
I took forever on that level...

EDIT: I corrected a typo

[chaos_defrost]

Awesome. Nice job... you said you've said to pass The Top Shelf or The Mon0lith in the other thread?

I'm a bit torn on whether I should complete my set before posting it or just post it again now because I haven't added any new levels to it for about a year now. Hmmmmmm. I really want to finish it.

[geoo]

Funnily enough that reminds me that I once wanted to send you an e-mail with backroutes, comments etc. when having solved all levels of your four set project, Insane Steve.
Still one to go (3M)...then you might recieve a rather long mail. I should re-try it sometime again.
Keep it up (or better, get on to it again).

Btw, it might be good if all sets/levels would be listed in the first post of the thread, that way there would be a good overview.

[Ice_Eagle]

I'll do that, geoo89, when I have the time.

EDIT: Done.

[Isu]

Awesome. Nice job... you said you've said to pass The Top Shelf or The Mon0lith in the other thread?

I've passed neither of them, and like I say, I have no idea...

I'm a bit torn on whether I should complete my set before posting it or just post it again now because I haven't added any new levels to it for about a year now. Hmmmmmm. I really want to finish it.

I'd like you to finish it, and I have this thing about unfinished things so, yeah, finish it before releasing. :cool:

[Ice_Eagle]

I made a few changes in Set 3.

Download here:
http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php?cmd=get&file=cheapo/IceEagle3upd.zip

"What a CONFUSING level" is now level 25, to fix this mistake that Nuntar pointed out, "Prince Star" is now level 3, "Dragon Tails, Simplified Version" is level 8, "Confusing Sky" is level 10, and "Lots o' turning!" is level 27. There's a new level 30, too.

"Crazy Sudoku" is now called "Complicated Sudoku," with the hidden metal changed. But the traps are still there.

The exit in "Dragon Tails, Simplified Version" is fixed.

[chaos_defrost]

Funnily enough that reminds me that I once wanted to send you an e-mail with backroutes, comments etc. when having solved all levels of your four set project, Insane Steve.

Ya know, forget about 3M for a second... I really want to read your notes on my set. It might be the kind of thing I need to push me into finishing off my 4-pack set over the summer.

[geoo]

Ya know, forget about 3M for a second... I really want to read your notes on my set. It might be the kind of thing I need to push me into finishing off my 4-pack set over the summer.

Well then, I'll start now. I'll split it into four (or maybe more) parts, so I might get the first part ready still today (meh...probably not). Is that ok? And shall I review all or only the ones I think I should say something to? (anyway, especially for the later levels this should be equivalent :wink:)
For the later levels however, it might take some more time since I might have forgotten a few solutions...
insanesteve(ad)gmail(dod)com is your new address, is that correct?
It'd be nice if I could contribute something to your progress on your set that way...

[chaos_defrost]

insteve[at-sign]gmail[period]com. Thank you in advance.

Comment however you feel appropriate. I mean, you don't have to comment on the levels with the fairly obvious solutions, but anything interesting you found would be appreciated.

[chaos_defrost]

Double post:

I've finally begun to work on additional stages for my set. I tried adding one to my notebook sets, but I got a "big fat error" saying that none of the levels in my set are valid, and I can't add levels to it. Huh.

[geoo]

Nice to hear that you re-started. Any chance to have a look at your level already?
I have no idea what the 'big fat error' could be about though.

Playing Cheapo is one of the things I can do now with my limited possibilities, so I'll start with the third part of my review soon.

[BLAZE]

I've finally begun to work on additional stages for my set. I tried adding one to my notebook sets, but I got a "big fat error" saying that none of the levels in my set are valid, and I can't add levels to it. Huh.

It's the set file, not the level file, that's corrupt. Just manually re-add the levels one by one. This happens quite often.

[chaos_defrost]

Ya, I figure that's what I'm going to wind up doing. At least the level files are fine.

Besides, the sets need a bit of re-ordering anyways.

Thanks for the advice.

[SeriousGamer]

Here's my cheapo set.
www.intercomm.com/seriousgamer/sg1.set
It requires these styles:
www.intercomm.com/seriousgamer/SNESMusStyles.zip
And if you want to hear music in most of the levels it requires ccexplore's cheapo hack found here:
http://www.geocities.com/guestlevels/MCIChMus/MCIChMus_v1.0.zip

Special thanks to Nuntar for letting me modify his styles and for taking time out of reviewing levels and writing his dissertation to test this set. It has taken a while but we have worked out most of the bugs and backroutes. Still there are probably many to be found so if you think you've found a backroute please let me know. If you tried my pack posted a while ago on the lemmingswelt forums, this one is a much improved version with about twice as many levels.

Have fun!

[Proxima]

To clarify:

I've beaten all levels in their final form except 22, 28 and 29, and checked for backroutes. I've also backrouted earlier versions of those three but those backroutes have been removed and I haven't found the real solutions. I don't know for absolute certain (well, you never can!)  :wink:  whether any backroutes remain.

[geoo]

I played the old version, and a few levels of this new version for now, and I really like your levels.
I suppose your set doesn't get as much response as it should because some players, including me, are busy with tseug's CustLemm pack.
I got interested by Ahribar's comment and tried and solved 22 and 28-30 for now. However, it seems that my solutions for those except level 29 are backroutes. I'll PM you my solutions as soom as I get ready writing them.

[geoo]

I've finished a half-done level of mine today. Design is a little strange, but I quite like it though. It's most likely full of backroutes still, but anyways, I hope you'll give it a try: http://207.58.177.175/~geoo89/lemmings/Crystal.lev
EDIT: I forgot to say, it requires Ahribar's Crystal style to be played.
EDIT2: It's called "Illusive Paths", just in case you are sreaching.

As for glitches (highlight to read): <generic filler> No glitches involved! <more filler to make the message appear longer>
EDIT: modified spoiler color to make it fit the background.

[Ice_Eagle]

Is anyone still making Cheapo levels? It's been a big while since the forums were down.

Nuntar still needs to finish reviewing my levels!

[Mr. K]

The community is kinda dead.  I myself was working on a Cheapo pack long ago, but only got 12 levels into the easy category and got bored.

And I think Nuntar left; he said he doesn't come here enough to at least justify his General Discussion moderatorship...

[chaos_defrost]

I stopped making levels a long time ago. It also seems like the majority of the "level design" section of the playerbase got lost somehow through the various migrations.

Maybe I'll pick it up again sometime, but for now I'm done with level design unless I randomly get a ridiculously awesome idea.

[geoo]

Yay, I've still got a few ideas spread over a couple of notes which are again spread over my whole room; but for once I'm lacking time and I'm currently not in the mood either, therefore I'm doing, besides some important stuff, some other unimportant stuff first.

EDIT: But I'm still active as you might have noticed.

[geoo]

Ok, realized a level idea in a level in a new preliminary style.
The style: http://207.58.177.175/~geoo89/lemmings/CheapoSupaplexStyle.zip
The level: http://207.58.177.175/~geoo89/lemmings/GravitationalForce.lev

Just in the highly unlikely case that someone feels like making a level in this new style, if there's some object/music/whatever missing you'd need for the level, ask me and I'll add it asap.

[Mr. K]

It also seems like the majority of the "level design" section of the playerbase got lost somehow through the various migrations.

I made five levels recently, although three are strongly based off previous cheapo levels, and another is incredibly easy. Look in the Lemmings Remake topic under general discussion.

They're LemEdit though, not Cheapo.

[Chmera]

I can't make levels for the life of me. I usually end up making levels less hard and more aesthetically appealing...

[SeriousGamer]

I'm not sure how active this forum is, it's been a while since I've been around. Anyway I started making a second cheapo level set but stopped a while ago due to lack of motivation. I didn't want to let them go to waste, so here they are:

www.intercomm.com/seriousgamer/sg2preview.set

and the same styles from my first set:

www.intercomm.com/seriousgamer/SNESMusStyles.zip

The set only has four levels but they range from easy to difficult (excluding possible backroutes). Also I'm curious, has anyone beaten level 22 from my first set?

[geoo]

I sent you my backroute-solution to level 22 sometime ago via PM. Have you removed that backroute since then?

As for your new levels, I like 'Euclid's Lemming' best: I had one of the bashers left though in the end.
First level, I sent 100% of the lemmings to the left exit.
Second one

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

: Go below.
And the last one is way too backrouteinsh I guess: just sent two climbers up, have them dig into the safe (at the left side of it), have one build using three bridges and the other one turn around using one builder and have him bash through the wall at the left to release the crowd --> saves 100%.

[SeriousGamer]

Yeah, I did fix the backroute for 22. I'm impressed how fast you responded with your solutions. You're right that your solution for the last one is a backroute, I'll try to fix it.

[geoo]

Well, with the last one having that blatant backroute, it didn't take that much time to solve your 4 levels: first one is trivial (well, I think I went the easy way and released a blocker), second one not too difficult either after finding the main idea, only the third one took some time to figure. Overall perhaps like 20 minutes.

I played the new version of level 22 and solved it. Check your inbox, I'll send a PM with my solution soon.

btw, did somebody try my crystal level 'Illusive Paths'? The basic idea behind it is ridiculously simple, yet somewhat obscure and subtle.

[SeriousGamer]

Thanks for trying out my levels. You got the intended solution to 22 btw.
After a lot of effort I've beaten illusive paths but probably not the intended way. I'll PM you my solution.

[geoo]

Hey nice, thanks for playing my level. Yes, you're right, it is a backroute, and based on your idea there are some more of the same kind. I hope I can fix this with OWWs: check out the new version: http://207.58.177.175/~geoo89/lemmings/Crystal.lev

[Dullstar]

It also seems like the majority of the "level design" section of the playerbase got lost somehow through the various migrations.

I made five levels recently, although three are strongly based off previous cheapo levels, and another is incredibly easy. Look in the Lemmings Remake topic under general discussion.

They're LemEdit though, not Cheapo.

I think lemedit stuff goes in the CustLemm thread, from what I've learned from asking questions.

...

I have an unfinished level pack, but the first 6 levels have been confirmed to work (this counts the level made up of three levels as one level).  It's very hard, though, and I'm going to have to do a little bit of digging to find my cheapo stuff.

I'm probably not going to work on it ever again, but I do update it from time to time...
I don't know if it would work to attach it to this post, so if it isn't, I may or may not make it downloadable.  If anyone's interested, let me know.