SG's Cheapo Pack

[seriousgamer]

Hi,
I'm new to these forums and to lemmings level editing in general. I have made a 19 level pack for cheapo and would like to get some feedback.
It requires the lemmus styles (all except for bricks).

http://www.intercomm.com/seriousgamer/sg1.set

note: I tried my best to organize the levels by difficuly, but you may disagree.

[Proxima]

I'm having a go at them  

First thing I notice: level 1 and its sequel level 10 can both be passed with just one digger. This isn't a problem on the earlier level, but is something of a backroute if you meant the sequel to be harder!

EDIT: passed the first three. Level 4 seems to be a big step up in difficulty and I don't yet have any good ideas, unless I'm missing something obvious. I probably am, because Level 5 was also not that difficult.

[seriousgamer]

Yes, that is a backroute on level 10, and it's one that I feel kind of dumb for missing. XD
I guess it's good to get a fresh perspective to see things like that.

Also, level 4 is where the levels start requiring you to plan out a solution, but like I said you might find some of the later levels easier.

[Proxima]

OK, I still have nothing on Level 4, but other than that I've solved up to 13.

Level 7 has an interesting solution that saves 100% .... unfortunately the same solution solves its sequel Level 13, which you probably don't want.

Level 11 appears to have a backroute: if you cross the pit by stretching your builders, you can *just* get the builder to bump himself and turn round.

In Level 12 I used only the bottom-left exit. Is that how I was meant to do it?

[seriousgamer]

Yeah, for level 12 you only need to use that exit. For 7 and 13 are you talking about making a blocker and mining under him? Neither level requires that. I might go back and try to fix some of these backroutes to make the levels more difficult.

[Proxima]

Here's my solution to Levels 7 and 13 (drag your cursor over the text to read):

[highlight]Go down on the left and start bashing through the wall. As you bash, at times there will be a little "step" at the end of the bash tunnel because of the way the basher takes a slightly curved section out of the wall. Make another lemming bash when he steps up onto this curved section -- this will stop the other basher and you can get over the hole in the base of the wall. Then make a blocker behind the basher, build to the exit, and release the blocker by digging just before him and bashing.[/highlight]

As I say, I don't think it's a problem on Level 7 -- it's a clever trick to save 100% but definitely harder to think of than the main solution -- but you might decide it's a problem on Level 13. Your call.

[chaos_defrost]

My solution to levels 7 and 13 were exactly the same. I saved 19 on both.

Pretty good set, overall. I've gotten most of them already -- Level 12 is taking me a bit of thought. Only problem I see is that a lot of the solutions seem like back-routes. For example, my solution to level 8 uses only about half the tasks given to you. I'll elaborate later.

[Proxima]

Pretty good set, overall. I've gotten most of them already -- Level 12 is taking me a bit of thought.

I got Level 12 very quickly because one of my levels uses the same trick  

Only problem I see is that a lot of the solutions seem like back-routes. For example, my solution to level 8 uses only about half the tasks given to you. I'll elaborate later.

Quite a few of the solutions don't need all the tasks.... I don't think they are backroutes, though, apart from the ones I've already mentioned. Though maybe you found some backroutes that I missed.

[chaos_defrost]

Ok. Cool.

I got #12 with 2 diggers and a basher left over. Hmmmm.

I also saved 100% on #18 with 3 miners and a basher left, although I could've left a builder too if I timed it better. If anything, that's a level, given its name, that probably should be adjusted to require 100%.

Level 19 (and its earlier counterpart) I don't have the style for. That and #4 are the 3 I have left to pass.

[Proxima]

OK, I'll send you the style. It's just PinkLemmus..... but I think you're having problems because you're using the new version. (You should get rid of this; every single level on LP3 works fine with the old version.)

My #12 solution finished with two diggers and the floater over but I used all the bashers. Interesting.

I beat Level 15..... a backroute, I feel pretty sure, because it was far easier than it should be for a level so late in the pack. I've looked at the remaining levels but no solution ideas yet. (Though I got agonisingly close on #16..... if only there were a floater I'd have got it!)

I'm going to be very audacious here and suggest that, given we've both failed completely on #4 but that there would be a very nice solution possible with one extra miner, that you might have made a simple typing error.....

Also, levels 7 and 13 are identical except that 13 has an extra bomber! No wonder both mine and Steve's solutions for #7 work on #13 as well!

[Proxima]

Solved Level 18 as well now. 100%, three miners and a digger over.

EDIT: Solved #16. The only case in the pack so far where I feel sure my solution was harder than whatever was intended. I'd like to hear other people's solutions to this one..... here's mine:

[highlight]First lemming digs all the way down the pillar on the left. Second lemming (who is made a climber) goes past, digs down just before turning round, and bashes out when he nears the bottom of the pillar. Highlight the last lemming with the right-click function, and have him dig facing right one pixel left of the other digger, releasing him and creating a tiny overhang to turn the climber later on. Make the climber dig before the trap, bash near the bottom of the pillar, build across the gap. When the digger on the far left is under the trap, have him bash. When the climber comes back, bash and mine to connect with the other basher; stop this basher with a builder if they aren't perfectly timed to stop each other. Then make the leading lemming bash the wooden slat before the exit.[/highlight]

[chaos_defrost]

My solution to #16 was kind of complicated as well but completely different, hahaha. And used every task.

Thanks for the style, also.

EDIT: I found a much nicer solution to #16. My first one required a basher-miner collision stop. This one's a lot easier.

[seriousgamer]

I double checked level 4 and it is easily beatable with only one miner.
Ahribar, your solution to #16 is almost exactly how I do it.

[Proxima]

Thanks for the hint. I beat Level 4 at last...... though this one really should have been later in the pack. A very simple solution, but surprisingly hard to think of.

And I beat Level 17...... [highlight]by falling directly into the exit[/highlight]. A backroute, or was that meant to be the solution?

Just 14 and 19 left now......

EDIT: got #14. Saved 96/100, so my solution won't work on #19, which is exactly the same but requires 99. More thinking required....... EDIT: got it!!!

[seriousgamer]

Heh yes that is a backroute to level 17, luckily most of these backroutes are easy to remove. I would like to know how you solved levels 15 and 18. For 14 and 19 that's exactly what I was going for. They are nearly identical but one small change to the level changes the entire solution. That's also what I was going for with levels 7 and 13.

[Proxima]

And now, my thoughts on the set as a whole.

Backroutes on levels 10, 11 (and 15 if that one was a backroute, as I think) need to be addressed.

Level 13 is identical to level 7 minus the bomber. But since neither the obvious solution nor my 100% solution requires the bomber, having this as a separate level seems superfluous.

The order of the levels is mostly accurate. As I said, level 4 should be placed later, and I would place the last few in the order 14-(15)-17-19-18-16. (I've put 15 in brackets because of the backroute; nevertheless, it's good to keep 14 and 19, the duplicate levels, a little bit apart.)

The "scenery" on all the levels is especially well designed, and you have a rare talent for making plausible red herrings out of parts that aren't actually relevant to the solution!

Overall I think that in spite of the backroutes this is one of the best packs I've played. Partly because I'm sick of the way most people on the forum delight in making levels that are way too hard for my humble skills......

[Proxima]

Heh yes that is a backroute to level 17, luckily most of these backroutes are easy to remove. I would like to know how you solved levels 15 and 18. For 14 and 19 that's exactly what I was going for. They are nearly identical but one small change to the level changes the entire solution. That's also what I was going for with levels 7 and 13.

Alright, here are my solutions.

Level 15: [highlight]Make all the lemmings from the left trapdoor climbers. Make one lemming dig on the far right and put a blocker behind him. Have the digger bash and then build to the exit, and release the blocker by digging and bashing.[/highlight]

Level 18: [highlight]Bash the left lemmings out of the starting area and then dig down to the bottom. Make the last lemming who turns around in the bash tunnel before it's finished mine rightwards from the far left and float. This lemming builds across the gap at the bottom. Then when he turns round, have him bash to keep busy while another lemming bashes the one-way wall. Make the floater-basher build to turn round and make him a climber to free the right group of lemmings.[/highlight]

Levels 7 and 13: [highlight]Block on the left. Bash. Make one lemming climb up, dig and bash through the ground, build to the exit. Bash the wall separating the other lemmings from the "worker". Exactly the same solution works on #13. (For my 100% solution, which also works on both, see the previous page.)[/highlight]

I'll give you my 14 and 19 solution as well, because I really don't think the "entire solution" was changed....
[highlight]Bash the pillar, build across the gap, dig to trap the crowd in the ground on the right. RR 99 and make the last lemming dig through the non-metal ground and float. Bash, build, climb, bash the one-way wall. Bash left to release the crowd. For level 19, RR 99 at the start and make the *last* lemming bash and build.[/highlight]

[seriousgamer]

Thank you, your comments are greatly appreciated.
Hopefully it's normal for new editor like me to leave so many easy backroutes open.
I think the only ones where your solutions match mine, at least out of the harder levels are 4, 14, and 16.
I'll try to address them and post an update.
Btw, can you post your solution to 12?
Thanks again!