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Author Topic: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)  (Read 16405 times)

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Offline namida

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[NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« on: December 22, 2020, 06:56:13 AM »
EDIT: There is a topic on the Challenges board with an aim to try and find a 1025/1025 set of solutions that fits within this contest's rules.

Entries are now closed.
Skill selection is now closed.

Alright, time for a (surprise) new contest of a unique kind! This is inspired by ideas thrown around on Discord earlier today.

To begin, each contestant may pick up to three levels from Lemmings Redux. Include your level selections in your "I'm entering" post. The same level cannot be picked by more than one person; and a level that has/is a repeat can only be picked if its other version has not yet been picked. For the purpose of this contest, "Just A Minute (Part 2)" is considered a repeat of "Just A Minute", and likewise for "Fall And No Life (Part 2)", even though they technically are not exact repeats.

Once entries are closed, I will compile the final list of levels for this contest by selecting 20 levels at random from the levels that entrants have picked. If there are less than 20 selected levels, the remaining levels will be selected via Random.org's randomizers, with all levels (except those disqualified under the repeats rule) being candidates.

Entrants must then each select a skillset. This skillset should be submitted via PM, not posted publicly. You must select your skillset based on the following guidelines:
- One of: Shimmier, Jumper
- One of: Climber, Floater, Swimmer, Glider, Disarmer
- One of: Bomber, Stoner
- One of: Platformer, Builder, Stacker
- One of: Basher, Fencer, Miner, Digger
- One more of: Platformer, Builder, Stacker, Basher, Fencer, Miner, Digger - you cannot select the same skill twice, it must be one you have not selected yet
- Cloner
- And the 8th skill can be anything you like (as long as it exists in NL V12.10) - again, can't be the same one twice

To clarify here, the timing for selecting your skillset will be "after entries close, but before the final level list is revealed". So, you will know what the candidate levels are, but not exactly which ones are going to be selected.

Once I have received skillsets from all entrants, I will reveal the list of levels, and this is where the competition really begins! Your goal will be to play through the levels, using the set of skills you have selected, and try to save as many lemmings as possible. Across the entire set (NOT per-level), you may use up to 25 of each skill; and you do not need to meet each level's save requirement for your result on the level to count. In the event of a tie, the tiebreaker will be fewest total skills used. Aside from the skillset there is one other change: Each level will give you exactly 50 lemmings.

If you submit a result, but then (while playing phase is still open) find a way to improve it, you will be permitted to resubmit. Replay submissions should of course be done privately, to avoid giving other players ideas.

To state that you wish to enter, reply to this topic clearly stating that you wish to enter, and with your level picks.

Entry will remain open until midday UTC on the 14th of January. This may be shortened if there's a huge rush of entries up front, then few / no further entries for a while afterwards. There will then be 7 days for entrants to select their skillsets - any who do not will be considered to have dropped out. If you may need longer, let me know in advance so I can extend this deadline.
The playing phase will close at whichever comes first - (a) midday UTC on 12th 26th February, or (b) when all entrants have submitted their replays and 72 hours have passed without any players re-submitting.

In any case where the version of NeoLemmix used makes a difference to the result, V12.10.3 will be considered the "authoritative" version for this contest. A copy of the correct versions of the levels is attached - these have the lemming count set to 50, save requirement set to 1, and skillset and talismans stripped. You can use NL QuickMod to quickly add your custom skillset to all levels.



Entries so far
- Gronkling
- mantha16
- Minim
- namida
- Pooty
- Proxima
- Silken Healer
- WillLem

Levels selected (20)
- Gentle 6 "A Task For Bombers"
- Gentle 11 "Keep Your Hair On Mr Lemming"
- Gentle 12 "A Block From Home"
- Gentle 13 "Let's Go To The Moon"
- Gentle 19 "Where do you see Lemmings?"
- Quirky 1 "PoP YoR ToP"
- Quirky 22 "The Far Side"
- Quirky 29 "Tension Sheet, Good Idea"
- Quirky 31 "Cascade"
- Quirky 32 "And Then There Were Four..."
- Zany 6 "Compression Method 1"
- Zany 11 "LemMing ToMato KetchUp fAcilitY"
- Zany 17 "Lemming Lament"
- Zany 23 "ONWARD AND UPWARD"
- Zany 25 "Have a nice day!"
- Lunatic 7 "Down, along, up, in that order"
- Lunatic 9 "Evacuating a coal mine"
- Lunatic 12 "Water processing plant"
- Lunatic 16 "Sega FOUR"
- Lunatic 22 "Hello John! Got A New Lemming?"
« Last Edit: April 19, 2021, 09:01:04 PM by namida »
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Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2020, 07:20:31 AM »
Regarding Cloner being outright a "must include this": It quickly occurred to me that anyone who picks Cloner has an extra 25 lemmings available to them, thus giving them a huge advantage over other players. I thought about whether to offset this in some way, with the possibilities including that one lemming is deducted from your result for each Cloner you use, or an outright "skillsets including Cloners are penalized 25 lemmings" (or the inverse, "skillsets without them are given 25 bonus lemmings"), or scaling the scores proportionally (based on total lemming count with / without cloners) - but ultimately decided the simplest way was to either require or forbid Cloners altogether, and I chose to go with "require" completely arbitrarily.
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Offline Gronkling

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2020, 08:53:14 AM »
Personally I think it'd be more interesting and easier if we had no idea what's coming, rather than selecting possible choices beforehand. :)
I'd like to join, but just RNG my 3 choices.

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2020, 08:57:55 AM »
Updates to the first post (re: how to enter; and allowing entrants to not choose any levels).

...
To begin, each contestant must may pick three levels from Lemmings Redux. This is all or nothing; you must either pick all three or not make any selections. Include your level selections in your "I'm entering" post. The same level ...

... entrants have picked. If there are less than 7 entrants who picked levels, the remaining levels will be selected via Random.org's randomizers, with all levels (except those disqualified under the repeats rule) being candidates.

...

To state that you wish to enter, reply to this topic clearly stating that you wish to enter, and with your level picks.

...
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Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2020, 09:04:54 AM »
Another thing I thought about was to give an incentive to try and spread out the success rather than concentrate it on a few levels. One possibility is to give a small number (perhaps two or three) "bonus lemmings" for every level on which at least 50% is saved. However, I didn't go ahead with this in the initial ruleset because I wasn't sure exactly what the best criteria to use here is, nor whether it's worthwhile to have at all. An alternative possibility is a penalty for each level where entrants fail to save at least one lemming. Maybe it's just preferable to outright allow a strategy of "maximize a few levels rather than spreading things out".
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Offline mantha16

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2020, 09:20:58 AM »
im entering

My First choice is PoPYourTop (quirky 1)
Tension Sheet, Good idea (quirky 29)
and Then there were four (quirky 32)

I'll edit this post to add my other choices
« Last Edit: December 22, 2020, 11:27:24 PM by mantha16 »

Offline Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2020, 11:50:45 AM »
Sounds like this will be fun. I'll give it a try :thumbsup:

My level choices are:

Gentle 19 "Where do you see Lemmings?"
Gentle 32 "Going Their Separate Ways"
Zany 17 "Lemming Lament"

Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2020, 11:50:56 AM »
Great idea :thumbsup:

I'd like to enter this. My choices are:

Gentle 13 Let's Go To The Moon
Quirky 31 Cascade
Zany 11 LemMing ToMato KetchUp fAcilitY

Quick question: will this be done on percentages or actual number of Lems saved?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2020, 11:57:50 AM by WillLem »

Offline Minim

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2020, 02:39:47 PM »
This is really just a variant of LSC, but has a group of levels and choice of different skills. Still sounds interesting, so I'll enter!

Personally I think it'd be more interesting and easier if we had no idea what's coming, rather than selecting possible choices beforehand. :)

I agree. Levels in particular should be a mystery to everyone, but anyway, here are my recommendations. (All Lunatic levels, because none of those have been chosen so far ;P)

Lunatic 9: Evacuating a coal mine
Lunatic 12: Water processing plant
Lunatic 16: Sega FOUR
Level Solving Contest creator. Anybody bored and looking for a different challenge? Try these levels!

Neolemmix: #1 #4 #5 #6
Lix: #2  #7
Both Engines: #3

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2020, 04:55:05 PM »
Great idea :thumbsup:

I'd like to enter this. My choices are:

Gentle 13 Let's Go To The Moon
Quirky 31 Cascade
Zany 11 LemMing ToMato KetchUp fAcilitY

Quick question: will this be done on percentages or actual number of Lems saved?

Number of lemmings. Perhaps it's worth discussing if the lemming count should also be a certain amount for each level rather than the original (as otherwise levels like Great Lemming Caper would become low priority to solve).
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Offline Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2020, 05:45:40 PM »
How about doing it L2 style? Start with 50 lemmings and adjust the number of lemmings on each level to the number you managed to save on the one before :)

Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2020, 06:18:07 PM »
How about doing it L2 style? Start with 50 lemmings and adjust the number of lemmings on each level to the number you managed to save on the one before :)

This is a good idea; either that or have the same number for every level. It seems the only fair way of doing it if it's lem count rather than %.

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2020, 06:46:46 PM »
A L2-style lemming carry-over from level to level would make the contest order-sensitive, which in turn affects the ability to strategically pick which levels the player wants to focus on. While I want to encourage spreading over the whole pack, I don't expect it's too likely that everyone will solve every level.

A fixed number of lemmings on each level, on the other hand, seems a lot more feasible. 20, 25 or 50 all seem like good amounts to use (20 or 50 due to being not-too-large "nice" numbers; 25 due to that also being used for the skill count).
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Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2020, 06:52:35 PM »
Some edits to the first post again:

Quote
...
- And the 8th skill can be anything you like (as long as it exists in NL V12.10)

To clarify here, the timing for selecting your skillset will be "after entries close, but before the final level list is revealed". So, you will know what the candidate levels are, but not exactly which ones are going to be selected.

...

Entry will remain open until midday UTC on the 21st of January. This may be shortened if there's a huge rush of entries up front, then few / no further entries for a while afterwards. There will then be ...
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Offline Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2020, 06:53:21 PM »
Honestly it's a bit of a relief to have that shot down, since I had the idea of recording my playthrough, and having to edit the levels mid-run would interfere with that a bit.

If we're doing a fixed number of lemmings per level, I'd say go with 50, since Redux reduces original counts of 100 to 50 except in a very small number of cases where there was a particular reason for keeping the original count.

PS. Don't forget to update the list of entrants in the first post!

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2020, 07:29:57 PM »
I'm entering too. My levels are:

- Quirky 22 "The Far Side"
- Zany 6 "Compression Method 1"
- Lunatic 22 "Hello John! Got A New Lemming?"



Also, one more change to the original post, as I realised "all or nothing" rule for level selection was pointless:

Quote
To begin, each contestant may pick up to three levels from Lemmings Redux. This is all or nothing; you must either pick all three or not make any selections.

I'll give a bit more time for input on the lemming count thing before making any edit for that, but I am very much leaning towards the "50 lemmings on every level" idea.

That aside, I've also added a list of selected levels so far to the first post, for easy reference.
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Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2020, 10:23:47 PM »
Just to clarify a few points:

1) Do Cloners count towards the amount saved?
2) You start with 25 of each skill at the start, and carry over what you don't use to the next level each time?
3) We don't get to choose the order in which the levels are played?

I'd suggest making the save requirement for each level 1 lemming.

Also, now that I understand that it'll be 25 skills for 20 levels, any chance of bumping it up to the full 10 skills that NeoLemmix allows on the panel?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2020, 11:46:36 PM by WillLem »

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2020, 11:26:24 PM »
Quote
1) Do Cloners count towards the amount saved?
2) You start with 25 of each skill at the start, and carry over what you don't use to the next level each time?
3) We don't get to choose the order in which the levels are played?

1. Yes, they do.

2. Your entire set of replays for the 20 levels, combined, must not use more than 25 of each skill.

3. I'll most likely distribute the selected levels in a pack where they're ordered alphabetically, but there's no reason why the order matters in the first place. What matters is the total amount of lemmings you save - this is specifically not an L2-like case where you carry over lemmings from one level to the next. You can pick and choose which levels you actually complete, if you are not able to complete all of them with the skills you have.

Quote
I'd also suggest making the save requirement for each level 1 lemming.

It is perfectly acceptable to have some levels where you do not save any lemmings, although a 1 lemming requirement might be good for technical reasons re: replay autosaving.



It has also come up on Discord; should entrants be allowed to pick the same skill twice (for the 2nd constructive / destructive selection and/or the free-choice selection), and get 50 of that one skill at the cost of sacrificing an extra skill type?

My initial reaction to this is "no, it must be 8 different skills with 25 uses each". However, I'm open to this. The questions that then arise are:
- Should there be a further penalty to the quantity? (eg. perhaps if you pick the same skill twice, you get 40 (10 less) instead of 50; or if you pick it three times, you get 55 (20 less) instead of 75?)
- If allowed, what do we do about Cloners? This could lead to the very situation that I wanted to avoid by making Cloners compulsory - that it becomes almost obligatory to pick Cloners to become competitive. One option could be that for a 2nd pick of Cloners, your lemming count is penalized by the number of extra Cloners you have. Another could be simply that Cloners are an exception to "you may pick the same skill twice in lieu of an extra skill type".
- For the constructive / destructive skills, which already allow you to pick a second one in one of those categories, would this extend to "you can pick the same skill three times", or would it be limited to double?
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Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2020, 11:52:33 PM »
It is perfectly acceptable to have some levels where you do not save any lemmings, although a 1 lemming requirement might be good for technical reasons re: replay autosaving.

That's what I was thinking tbh, more for the technical reasons (i.e. you could just nuke a level after saving 1 and still pass it for replay autosave and moving on to the next level).

- Should there be a further penalty to the quantity? (eg. perhaps if you pick the same skill twice, you get 40 (10 less) instead of 50; or if you pick it three times, you get 55 (20 less) instead of 75?)

No, I think the skillset limit is tight enough at 25 of 8. If a person wishes to tactically choose 2 or even 3 of the same at the expense of another skill type, they should be allowed to do so.

- If allowed, what do we do about Cloners? This could lead to the very situation that I wanted to avoid by making Cloners compulsory - that it becomes almost obligatory to pick Cloners to become competitive

Not necessarily. If a person fancies their chances at saving all 50 lems on an extra level (as opposed to spamming an extra 25 Cloners), then - again - that should be competitor's choice.

EDIT: In fact, that's probably another point in favour of 50 lems per level.

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2020, 06:28:39 PM »
Quote
Not necessarily. If a person fancies their chances at saving all 50 lems on an extra level (as opposed to spamming an extra 25 Cloners), then - again - that should be competitor's choice.

EDIT: In fact, that's probably another point in favour of 50 lems per level.

I don't see how these two points are connected.
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Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2020, 06:57:21 PM »
Change to the first post:

Quote
In any case where the version of NeoLemmix used makes a difference to the result, V12.10.1 V12.10.2 will be considered the "authoritative" version for this contest.

In general - assume that similar changes will be made for any case where new stable versions are released before the playing phase starts.
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Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2020, 09:07:06 PM »
Quote
Not necessarily. If a person fancies their chances at saving all 50 lems on an extra level (as opposed to spamming an extra 25 Cloners), then - again - that should be competitor's choice.

EDIT: In fact, that's probably another point in favour of 50 lems per level.

I don't see how these two points are connected.

Because if there are 50 lems per level, it's in a competitor's best interests to choose whichever skill will be potentially most useful for 100%-ing an entire extra level, rather than simply spamming an extra 25 Cloners. It's still a risk, but the potential payoff is greater.

It's basically... "do I choose to have an extra 25 Cloners, which guarantees those extra 25 lems, or do I go for a different, more useful skill, which may result in an extra 50 lems?"

The reason it's in favour of 50 lems is because this potential double-payoff will hopefully encourage competitors not to choose an extra 25 Cloners, even if allowed to do so.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2020, 04:01:14 AM »
Quote
Because if there are 50 lems per level, it's in a competitor's best interests to choose whichever skill will be potentially most useful for 100%-ing an entire extra level, rather than simply spamming an extra 25 Cloners. It's still a risk, but the potential payoff is greater.

100%ing isn't necessary. If they can save 26 while going for the extra Cloners, they are better off than someone who can save 100% but did not pick the cloners.
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Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2020, 04:32:34 AM »
100%ing isn't necessary. If they can save 26 while going for the extra Cloners, they are better off than someone who can save 100% but did not pick the cloners.

Sure, for that one level. But then not for any of the levels after that. And meanwhile, the person who picked (for example) extra Builders has more of a much more useful skill for potentially making more out of those levels.

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2021, 05:37:21 PM »
Okay - only one user's really given any input on this, and I do feel quite strongly that it's going to complicate things. To keep it as simple as possible - this will just be an outright "you cannot pick the same skill twice". So for this time at least, that will be the rule - each skill in your set must be unique. Likewise, it was proposed on Discord that it should be 10 skills, but for this time we'll see how it goes with 8 - we can try 10 (or, if 8 turns out too lenient, perhaps 6 or 7) next time.

Unless there's some obvious hole that needs patching, I'm going to consider the rules final at this point.

I did make one other last-minute change: Rather than explicitly specifying NL "V12.10.2" or another exact version, the version is now specified to be "the newest stable V12.10.X build at the time the playing phase starts". In practice you can likely use any V12.10.X build, as it isn't expected for replays to break between different V12.10.X builds, but it's good to have an exact specified version just in case.

The other thing is, as I've said I may do if there was an initial rush of entries followed by no further subsequent ones, I have pulled back the entry deadline a bit. Entries will now close on the 14th of January (instead of the 21st) - this still leaves a week for more people to enter if they wish.
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline Silken Healer

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2021, 03:53:34 AM »
I'd like to enter. My Choices are: Gentle 6, 11 and 12

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2021, 05:29:53 PM »
Just a reminder that there's about a day left to enter, if anyone else still wants to.
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline Pooty

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2021, 10:49:45 PM »
I'll enter.

Zany 23 "ONWARD AND UPWARD"
Zany 25 "Have a nice day!"
Lunatic 7 "Down, along, up, in that order"
SEGA Master System version
100% on 110/120 levels (92%). Other levels [Lemmings lost]:
Fun 03 [3], 06 [2], 18 [5]   
Taxing 19 [5], 27 [1], 28 [3]
Tricky 15 [5], 17 [2]
Mayhem 19 [7], 26 [10]

Offline Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2021, 01:26:51 AM »
I've decided to drop "Going Their Separate Ways" from my selection and keep just the other two.

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2021, 06:05:52 PM »
Entries are now closed.

As exactly 20 levels are in the final selection list, there'll be no random element to it - so you'll know exactly which levels you're dealing with. The levels are as follows - keep in mind that you'll have your custom skillset, and every level will be modified to have 50 lemmings (but will otherwise remain as-is).

Quote
- Gentle 6 "A Task For Bombers"
- Gentle 11 "Keep Your Hair On Mr Lemming"
- Gentle 12 "A Block From Home"
- Gentle 13 "Let's Go To The Moon"
- Gentle 19 "Where do you see Lemmings?"
- Quirky 1 "PoP YoR ToP"
- Quirky 22 "The Far Side"
- Quirky 29 "Tension Sheet, Good Idea"
- Quirky 31 "Cascade"
- Quirky 32 "And Then There Were Four..."
- Zany 6 "Compression Method 1"
- Zany 11 "LemMing ToMato KetchUp fAcilitY"
- Zany 17 "Lemming Lament"
- Zany 23 "ONWARD AND UPWARD"
- Zany 25 "Have a nice day!"
- Lunatic 7 "Down, along, up, in that order"
- Lunatic 9 "Evacuating a coal mine"
- Lunatic 12 "Water processing plant"
- Lunatic 16 "Sega FOUR"
- Lunatic 22 "Hello John! Got A New Lemming?"

You may now begin selecting your skillset. Please send it to me via PM. Remember that you get 25 of each skill across all 20 levels combined (not per-level), and your goal is to save as many total lemmings as possible - there's no difference between (for example) saving 50 lemmings on one level and none on any other levels, vs saving two or three on each level for a total of 50 across the whole set.

As a reminder, your skillset must consist of:
1) One out of: Jumper, Shimmier
2) One out of: Climber, Swimmer, Floater, Glider, Disarmer
3) One out of: Bomber, Stoner
4) One out of: Platformer, Builder, Stacker
5) One out of: Basher, Fencer, Miner, Digger
6) A second skill from either #4 or #5
7) Cloner

The 8th skill can be anything you like (including Walker or Blocker).

Please get skillsets through to me within the next week, or let me know if you need more time. If I haven't heard from any entrants by one week from when entries closed (ie: midday UTC on the 21st), I will assume they have dropped out.
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2021, 09:26:26 PM »
One question that's come up - should players' skillsets be revealed publicly at the start of the playing phase, or only at the end?

I have no preference either way. Proxima mentioned on Discord that he'd vote for at the end.
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline Minim

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2021, 09:40:51 PM »
The end sounds better for me as well.
Level Solving Contest creator. Anybody bored and looking for a different challenge? Try these levels!

Neolemmix: #1 #4 #5 #6
Lix: #2  #7
Both Engines: #3

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2021, 01:50:56 AM »
A reminder that the skill selection phase closes in about 10 hours.

Anyone who hasn't picked their skills by then will be considered to have withdrawn (or if they have submitted a preliminary skillset, back during the entry phase, it will instead be assumed they wish to stick with that skillset). Likewise, once that's up you will no longer be able to change your selection.
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #33 on: January 21, 2021, 07:43:55 PM »
Alright, skillsets are now finalized and the levels have been attached to the first post. You can use NL QuickMod to quickly add your skillset to them.

The playing phase will close at midday UTC on 12th February. It will also close if, once all 8 entrants have submitted results, 72 hours passes without anyone resubmitting an improved result.

As a reminder:
- You have 25 of each of your skills across the entire pack combined (NeoLemmix has no automatic way to track this, though you could use Find-In-Files on your replays to check), NOT per level.
- On the other hand, the 50 lemmings is per-level - it's not a "carry over between levels" thing like L2.
- Original release rates and time limits still apply.
- It is acceptable to save zero lemmings on some levels, if you wish - you do not have to complete every level.
- Submit your results via PM. You may resubmit up until the playing phase closes if you improve your result.
- Winner is determined by most lemmings saved. The tiebreaker, if needed, will be fewest total skills used.
- NeoLemmix V12.10.3 is the authoritative version for this contest. If you are playing on V12.11-RC, make sure to double-check your replays in V12.10.3 before submitting, especially if the Swimmer is one of your skills.
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #34 on: January 22, 2021, 02:41:02 AM »
Are we submitting results as simple figures or should we include replays?

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #35 on: January 22, 2021, 06:10:38 PM »
Are we submitting results as simple figures or should we include replays?

Replays.
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline Minim

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2021, 08:54:04 PM »
I'm finding this to be quite an addictive challenge. :XD: I'm sure everyone else participating would feel the same. As I'm about to stop, I'm just writing a word of warning for everyone (me included) here:

Remember to pace yourself by doing up to an hour's maximum per playing session, and not spend three hours in one go like I did. :XD: With 16 days and two weekends left (approx.) there is still plenty of time for playing opportunities. Playing too late at night could disrupt sleep.
Level Solving Contest creator. Anybody bored and looking for a different challenge? Try these levels!

Neolemmix: #1 #4 #5 #6
Lix: #2  #7
Both Engines: #3

Offline Pooty

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #37 on: January 25, 2021, 09:18:40 PM »
I'm finding this to be quite an addictive challenge. :XD: I'm sure everyone else participating would feel the same. As I'm about to stop, I'm just writing a word of warning for everyone (me included) here:

Remember to pace yourself by doing up to an hour's maximum per playing session, and not spend three hours in one go like I did. :XD: With 16 days and two weekends left (approx.) there is still plenty of time for playing opportunities. Playing too late at night could disrupt sleep.

Yep, I can vouch for this. I had just spent pretty much my entire weekend working on this challenge. :forehead:
SEGA Master System version
100% on 110/120 levels (92%). Other levels [Lemmings lost]:
Fun 03 [3], 06 [2], 18 [5]   
Taxing 19 [5], 27 [1], 28 [3]
Tricky 15 [5], 17 [2]
Mayhem 19 [7], 26 [10]

Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #38 on: January 26, 2021, 06:17:53 AM »
Remember to pace yourself by doing up to an hour's maximum per playing session, and not spend three hours in one go like I did. :XD:

Did mine in a total of 10 hours over 2 days :forehead:

I didn't rush, though; I took my time, and even changed skillsets. I'm fairly confident that no further improvements are possible, but I am still occasionally glancing over my results spreadsheet to see if I've missed something.

Offline Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #39 on: February 03, 2021, 02:50:20 PM »
Sorry to have to do this, but can I ask for more time? I suddenly have a guest staying in my house, an old family friend who had to move out of her flat for a while because of rats. I was hoping to record myself attempting this challenge, but I don't want to disturb Janice. She is disabled and confined to her bed, and I probably won't be able to do anything while she is here (probably the next two weeks).

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #40 on: February 03, 2021, 09:06:14 PM »
^ Do any of the contestants object to this? I'm happy to extend the deadline if the other participants are okay with it.
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline Pooty

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #41 on: February 04, 2021, 07:13:22 AM »
No objections from me. :thumbsup:
SEGA Master System version
100% on 110/120 levels (92%). Other levels [Lemmings lost]:
Fun 03 [3], 06 [2], 18 [5]   
Taxing 19 [5], 27 [1], 28 [3]
Tricky 15 [5], 17 [2]
Mayhem 19 [7], 26 [10]

Offline Minim

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #42 on: February 04, 2021, 07:14:19 AM »
OK. Go ahead, then. :thumbsup:
Level Solving Contest creator. Anybody bored and looking for a different challenge? Try these levels!

Neolemmix: #1 #4 #5 #6
Lix: #2  #7
Both Engines: #3

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #43 on: February 04, 2021, 05:30:37 PM »
I will make the final decision on the 7th. If there are no objections (or they are significantly outweighed by people who explicitly state they're okay with this) by that time, I will extend the duration of the playing phase by two weeks. Will this be enough?

72-hour rule will remain in effect, though that shouldn't be a problem. (The one where the playing phase may end early if everyone has submitted their results, and no one has resubmitted for 72 hours.)
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #44 on: February 07, 2021, 06:15:57 PM »
As no one is objecting to extending the deadline, I'll extend it by two more weeks.

The new end date for the playing phase is 26th February, at midday UTC. The "when everyone has submitted, contest ends once we go 72 hours with no resubmissions" rule still applies - though of course this is not relevant until everyone has submitted their results, which is not yet the case (only about half of contestants have done so so far).
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline mantha16

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #45 on: February 12, 2021, 08:45:44 AM »
Remember to pace yourself by doing up to an hour's maximum per playing session, and not spend three hours in one go like I did. :XD:

 and even changed skillsets.

wait a minute we are allowed to change the skills we picked :evil::evil::evil::evil::evil::devil::devil::devil::devil:

Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #46 on: February 12, 2021, 10:03:21 PM »
Remember to pace yourself by doing up to an hour's maximum per playing session, and not spend three hours in one go like I did. :XD:

 and even changed skillsets.

wait a minute we are allowed to change the skills we picked :evil::evil::evil::evil::evil::devil::devil::devil::devil:

Ah, no - I started before the playing phase officially began ;P

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #47 on: February 19, 2021, 04:52:42 PM »
Just a reminder that there's about a week left until the playing phase closes.
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #48 on: February 24, 2021, 07:54:00 AM »
The playing phase will close in just over 48 hours. If you haven't submitted results yet, or wish to resubmit, please do so soon.
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #49 on: February 25, 2021, 10:02:09 PM »
At this stage I have received entries from all participants. There's less than 72 hours left to the deadline anyway, so it still applies as normal - midday on the 26th (UTC). That's just under 14 hours from the time of this post.
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #50 on: February 26, 2021, 05:55:23 PM »
Entries are closed (as of about 6 hours ago). I'll verify and post results over the weekend.

If any cases are found where a contestant has gone very slightly over the skill limit, and it appears to be accidental, I will allow a short time for them to resolve this. This will not apply in very blatant cases where it would appear the limit was ignored deliberately or through sheer negligence. (Or in other words - if you've used 26 of one skill, I'll point it out and allow some time to correct it. If you've used 40 of every skill, I'll just dismiss your entry as invalid.) To be clear: I'm not saying I've found any such cases; I haven't even looked at anyone else's results yet.
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #51 on: March 01, 2021, 06:36:55 PM »
Just confirming that I haven't forgotten about this, just haven't been in the right mindset to verify and total up the results yet. To be very clear, I have received everyone's results.

Some things I think I'll change if this runs again:
- Keeping the list of nominations secret until the playing phase actually begins. At least one user took advantage of the final set being predictable and so experimented with various skillsets before entering their selection. This was not a violation of the letter of the rules, but I feel it was a very blatant violation of the spirit of the rules which was that you're meant to select the skillset without full knowledge of what the levels would be - of course, with exactly 20 selected, you'd always know what they'd be but I still feel actually going in and trying a few different sets is pushing it.
- Relying on users to report their own results, on an honesty system. Then, the host only has to determine who's result is best, not what each person's result is.
- The rules around selecting a skillset need revising. I think having some rules here is good, it prevents people just going straight for lots of powerful skills, but I don't know if these ones were optimal.
- On the other hand, I am very happy with the lemming / skill quantities and think that I hit a really good balance on that one.
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #52 on: March 02, 2021, 05:47:09 AM »
Just confirming that I haven't forgotten about this, just haven't been in the right mindset to verify and total up the results yet

Happy to help if you need it; I have a bit of time over the next few days.

Keeping the list of nominations secret until the playing phase actually begins. At least one user took advantage of the final set being predictable and so experimented with various skillsets before entering their selection. This was not a violation of the letter of the rules, but I feel it was a very blatant violation of the spirit of the rules which was that you're meant to select the skillset without full knowledge of what the levels would be

The best way to address this is simply to have everyone submit their skillsets before choosing the levels.

On the other hand, I am very happy with the lemming / skill quantities and think that I hit a really good balance on that one.

Agreed :thumbsup:

Offline Pooty

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #53 on: March 02, 2021, 07:09:17 AM »
Just confirming that I haven't forgotten about this, just haven't been in the right mindset to verify and total up the results yet

Happy to help if you need it; I have a bit of time over the next few days.

I can help out too, namida, if you like.
SEGA Master System version
100% on 110/120 levels (92%). Other levels [Lemmings lost]:
Fun 03 [3], 06 [2], 18 [5]   
Taxing 19 [5], 27 [1], 28 [3]
Tricky 15 [5], 17 [2]
Mayhem 19 [7], 26 [10]

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #54 on: March 06, 2021, 01:43:14 AM »
Okay, so an idea came to me just now: Instead of tallying it up, modify NeoLemmix's source code to make a custom version of NeoLemmix to do so.

I've attached that version to this post. Install over an existing copy of 12.10.3 (note that it is based off this rather than 12.11.0, as 12.10.3 was the latest stable version when the playing phase started and thus is also the authoritative version for this contest). It has three key differences to allow it to work for this: It doesn't enforce skill limits (or even their presence / absence in the skillset); when doing mass replay checks it saves info on total lemming and skill counts (in the output text file - it isn't displayed on screen); and it matches levels to replays by title rather than ID.



With regards to results - there is indeed a case where one entrant went over the 25-of-each-skill cap by exactly one skill. There is an additional entrant who completely blew the 25 limit on one skill, as well as using exactly 26 of another.

Had this latter case been the only one, I would have simply disqualified them, but as I did say I would allow a chance to correct entries that were slightly over, I am going to allow an extra one week to get final results in. During this time, all entrants - even if their existing entries meet the requirements - are free to submit improved entries. I have already sent PMs to the users whose entries exceeded the limits; if you have not received one, your entry is fine (but you may still submit a new one just to improve your result, if you want).

The new deadline will be 00:01 UTC on March 13th.
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #55 on: March 06, 2021, 02:08:07 AM »
Just in case it wasn't clear: delete (or move elsewhere) all replays except the one you want to keep for each level (probably the most recent one) before running the mass replay check. Also, if you solved a level but decided that you would prefer not to save any on that level so as to save skills for other levels, you would delete all replays for that level.

Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #56 on: March 06, 2021, 03:59:26 AM »
My skillset was:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

:lemcat:

Offline Pooty

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #57 on: March 06, 2021, 04:41:31 AM »
Namida said on Discord that it is okay to share our skillsets now, if we want to. The number of lemmings we've saved will remain secret for now. I don't mind sharing the skillset I picked, so here it is:

My skill set (click to show/hide)
SEGA Master System version
100% on 110/120 levels (92%). Other levels [Lemmings lost]:
Fun 03 [3], 06 [2], 18 [5]   
Taxing 19 [5], 27 [1], 28 [3]
Tricky 15 [5], 17 [2]
Mayhem 19 [7], 26 [10]

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #58 on: March 06, 2021, 05:58:42 AM »
Namida said on Discord that it is okay to share our skillsets now, if we want to. The number of lemmings we've saved will remain secret for now.

Confirming this is true.

Mine was Jumper, Climber, Glider, Stoner, Builder, Basher, Miner, Cloner.
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline Minim

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #59 on: March 06, 2021, 09:42:56 AM »
Shame that the results aren't coming out until the 13th March, considering that the deadline was originally 12th Feb.

Anyway, this is my skillset.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Level Solving Contest creator. Anybody bored and looking for a different challenge? Try these levels!

Neolemmix: #1 #4 #5 #6
Lix: #2  #7
Both Engines: #3

Offline Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #60 on: March 06, 2021, 01:47:14 PM »
It's interesting that we've gone for very similar skillsets -- in particular, everyone so far has taken the jumper, climber, stoner and builder in addition to the required cloner. But someone who hasn't spoken up yet may have had a very different skillset, of course.

My skillset was identical to Pooty's, so it will be especially interesting to compare our results 8-) I've already given away (before I knew I had exactly the same skillset as anyone else) that I used all 200 available skills, so make of that what you like :P

Offline Gronkling

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #61 on: March 06, 2021, 02:03:59 PM »
Mine was slightly different but still along the same lines as everyone else
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline mantha16

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #62 on: March 06, 2021, 05:57:24 PM »
shimmier
climber
stoner
platformer
builder
basher
miner
cloner

Offline mantha16

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #63 on: March 06, 2021, 06:02:38 PM »
so im the only onne who picked shimmier that was a terrible mistake you all made.













only kidding I only used them on one level

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #64 on: March 06, 2021, 08:53:29 PM »
I have received resubmissions from everyone whose earlier entry was invalid, so the 72 hour rule is in effect - entries will close in 72 hours if no resubmissions are made in the meantime. Alternatively, if every contestant agrees to close it prior to that, we can also do so there. (In which case, my "as a contestant" input is sure, let's do that.)
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline mantha16

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #65 on: March 07, 2021, 06:39:18 AM »
as long as my entry is now correct im good with closing asap lol otherwise in case i made another mistake let me fix it lol

Offline Gronkling

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #66 on: March 07, 2021, 02:43:12 PM »
I'm fine with closing it whenever

Offline Pooty

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #67 on: March 07, 2021, 04:20:58 PM »
I'm fine with it too.
SEGA Master System version
100% on 110/120 levels (92%). Other levels [Lemmings lost]:
Fun 03 [3], 06 [2], 18 [5]   
Taxing 19 [5], 27 [1], 28 [3]
Tricky 15 [5], 17 [2]
Mayhem 19 [7], 26 [10]

Offline Minim

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #68 on: March 07, 2021, 05:39:58 PM »
OK sure. Why not?
Level Solving Contest creator. Anybody bored and looking for a different challenge? Try these levels!

Neolemmix: #1 #4 #5 #6
Lix: #2  #7
Both Engines: #3

Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #69 on: March 07, 2021, 08:48:23 PM »
Get it closed - we want to see the results!!! :lemcat:

Offline Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #70 on: March 07, 2021, 08:53:40 PM »
Seventhed :thumbsup:

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #71 on: March 07, 2021, 09:20:35 PM »
Silken has also given the okay to this on Discord, so, we can now close this. Here are the results!

Silken Healer - 323 lemmings saved (71 skills used / 4.55 lems per skill)
WillLem - 865 lemmings saved (175 skills used / 4.94 lems per skill)
namida - 869 lemmings saved (180 skills used / 4.83 lems per skill)
mantha16 - 892 lemmings saved (187 skills used / 4.77 lems per skill)
Minim - 935 lemmings saved (198 skills used / 4.72 lems per skill)
Proxima - 946 lemmings saved (200 skills used / 4.73 lems per skill)
Gronkling - 965 lemmings saved (196 skills used / 4.92 lems per skill)
Pooty - 1010 lemmings saved (190 skills used / 5.32 lems per skill)

Skillsets were:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I have attached the replay submissions to this post.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2021, 10:28:44 PM by namida »
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #72 on: March 07, 2021, 09:22:37 PM »
And now that results are up, one other thing I can say I'd change for the next round - the variance in the results, even among those with similar skillsets, suggests to me that there is no need to enforce the presence / absence of the Cloner in future contests, and it too can be optional.
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #73 on: March 07, 2021, 11:13:16 PM »
I've corrected the results above after finding an error in how they were calculated. (This relates to the copy of levels being used, NOT the special NeoLemmix version uploaded earlier.)

That aside, I've put up a poll for what pack the next contest should be on.
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline Minim

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #74 on: March 08, 2021, 09:43:43 AM »
Congratulations, Pooty! :thumbsup: I believe this is the first contest you've won, right?
Level Solving Contest creator. Anybody bored and looking for a different challenge? Try these levels!

Neolemmix: #1 #4 #5 #6
Lix: #2  #7
Both Engines: #3

Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #75 on: March 09, 2021, 03:07:38 AM »
:party:

Big congratulations to everyone who made the 900 club, Pooty for winning, and Mantha for beating namida :lemcat:

Since Silken and I are bringing up the rear here, I'm compelled to re-arrange the results so that they're in order of lems-per-skill; in this context, I've actually done quite well!

1 - Pooty - 5.32 lems per skill (1010 lemmings saved/190 skills used)
2 - WillLem - 4.94 lems per skill (865 lemmings saved/175 skills used)
3 - Gronkling - 4.92 lems per skill (965 lemmings saved/196 skills used)
4 - namida - 4.83 lems per skill (869 lemmings saved/180 skills used)
5 - mantha16 - 4.77 lems per skill (892 lemmings saved/187 skills used)
6 - Proxima - 4.73 lems per skill (946 lemmings saved/200 skills used)
7 - Minim - 4.72 lems per skill (935 lemmings saved/198 skills used)
8 - Silken Healer - 323 lemmings saved (71 skills used / 4.55 lems per skill)

Theeere we go, that's better :lemcat:

Pooty is still the winner in terms of lems-per-skill, which is incredible. Silken, of course, wins in terms of fewest skills used, and Proxima wins in terms of having managed to make use of every skill! So, everyone's happy :thumbsup:

Offline Pooty

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #76 on: March 09, 2021, 10:38:08 PM »
Congratulations, Pooty! :thumbsup: I believe this is the first contest you've won, right?

Yep, I believe it is! :D

I enjoyed this contest, and it was constantly on my mind during the playing phase. I was always thinking of ways to try and save on the skills I was using in the hopes that I could either eke out more lemmings or attempt to win on a potential tiebreak. On the last day, I had freed up enough skills to bring my total to a nice round 1,010.

I look forward to the next contest.

I've also uploaded my replays onto YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLbDUBmcL40
SEGA Master System version
100% on 110/120 levels (92%). Other levels [Lemmings lost]:
Fun 03 [3], 06 [2], 18 [5]   
Taxing 19 [5], 27 [1], 28 [3]
Tricky 15 [5], 17 [2]
Mayhem 19 [7], 26 [10]

Offline Minim

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #77 on: March 11, 2021, 09:48:21 AM »
Looking forward to watching your replays. I deliberately stopped once I got past the 900 mark for a bit of "gloss" :P

Poll-wise, looks like there's no contest. :smug: I voted Lemminas purely because there were some vertical levels that we hadn't come across yet. LPOII could be another potential contender.
Level Solving Contest creator. Anybody bored and looking for a different challenge? Try these levels!

Neolemmix: #1 #4 #5 #6
Lix: #2  #7
Both Engines: #3

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #78 on: March 11, 2021, 09:35:36 PM »
Looking forward to watching your replays. I deliberately stopped once I got past the 900 mark for a bit of "gloss" :P

Poll-wise, looks like there's no contest. :smug: I voted Lemminas purely because there were some vertical levels that we hadn't come across yet. LPOII could be another potential contender.

My goal was to go with a few well-known, suitable-for-newcomers packs. I was on the fence about including Lemminas here, actually, but what pushed me towards including it was the fact that unlike the rest, it was designed with new skills in mind, not just old ones, so could potentially be more interesting.

Given that the poll is very split, I may just have to pick one arbitrarily, or narrow it down to two options. Or perhaps just give the completely-open-ended one a shot...
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Save-'em-up Contest #1 (Lemmings Redux)
« Reply #79 on: March 12, 2021, 01:59:18 AM »
Regarding Lemminas, I think it would be cool to do a 'lemminas-only' version of this contest at some point, if that helps with decision-making at all...

I hasten to add that I'm suggesting that not because it's my pack, but because I genuinely think it would be quite neat :lemcat:

With that said, I ultimately voted for "No restrictions" because I also think that a mixture of levels from lots of different custom packs (including Lemminas, of course!) would be best overall.