Author Topic: [NeoLemmix] Fewest different kinds of skill  (Read 5283 times)

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Offline namida

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[NeoLemmix] Fewest different kinds of skill
« on: December 10, 2020, 06:55:35 PM »
Time to bring back another classic, this time the fewest kinds of skills challenge.

The goal here is to beat each level with the least variety of skills. The quantity used of each skill does not matter. So for example, a solution that uses "30 builders, 30 bashers" is a better result than a solution that uses "5 builders, 5 bashers, 5 miners", because the former only uses two types of skills (builders + bashers) whereas the latter uses three (builders + bashers + miners). Additionally, even if you can't beat the amount, it is meaningful if you can achieve the same result with a different combination. So if a level has a result for two skills using builders + bashers, and you find a solution that uses builders + miners, that's worth mentioning.



Lemmings Redux

Gentle (click to show/hide)

Quirky (click to show/hide)

Zany (click to show/hide)

Manic (click to show/hide)

Lunatic (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: March 04, 2021, 05:48:25 PM by Proxima »
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Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Fewest different kinds of skills
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2020, 07:15:01 PM »
Nice! Can't wait to get stuck in to this one. Which packs shall we start with?

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Fewest different kinds of skills
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2020, 07:49:36 PM »
By convention, Redux generally tends to be the first pack for NL challenges, so let's start there. But as usual - we'll discuss / "compete" on Discord. Both myself and Proxima have indicated we'd be up for this a bit later today (hence why I prepared the topic).
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Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Fewest different kinds of skills
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2020, 09:53:12 PM »
My replays up to Gentle 24.

Gentle 8 "Snuggle Up To A Lemming" - Diggers
Gentle 11 "Keep Your Hair On Mr Lemming" - Climbers + Bombers
Gentle 12 "A Block From Home" - Builders
Gentle 14 "CindyLand" - Bombers + Builders
Gentle 16 "A Beast Of A Level" - Builders + Miners
Gentle 17 "You Live And Lem" - Miners
Gentle 20 "Patience" - Bashers
Gentle 24 "Rainbow Island" - Miners
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Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Fewest different kinds of skills
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2020, 01:53:27 AM »
The only other improvement I found in the remainder of Gentle was Builders + Miners on The Crankshaft, which I'm assuming was an oversight as it was very simple.

Here's my replays for Quirky:
06 "Just A Quicky" - Builders + Miners
08 "A Spot Of Bother" - Floaters + Builders; Bombers + Builders; Builders + Bashers; Builders + Miners; Builders + Diggers
11 "Don't Panic" - Blockers + Builders + Bashers; Builders + Bashers + Diggers
12 "Over The Wall" - Bombers + Bashers; Blockers + Bashers
14 "Meeting Adjourned" - Builders + Bashers
17 "Mr Lemmy Lives Next Door" - Blockers + Builders + Bashers
20 "Perserverance" - Miners + Diggers
21 "The Long Way Around" - Floaters + Builders + Bashers; Blockers + Builders + Bashers
22 "The Far Side" - Builders + Miners + Diggers
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Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Fewest different kinds of skills
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2020, 06:19:49 AM »
Only one particularly interesting replay from me in the rest of Quirky. It can trivially be changed to use a miner instead of a basher.
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Online Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Fewest different kinds of skills
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2020, 06:27:51 AM »
My interesting replays from yesterday/today's session:

Quirky 20 "Perseverance" blockers + diggers
Quirky 27 "Island of the Wicker People" bombers + blockers + builders
Quirky 31 "Cascade" builders + bashers + diggers (as with namida's replay, the basher can trivially be switched for a miner)

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Fewest different kinds of skills
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2020, 06:15:29 AM »
Not as many interesting ones from me this time.

Zany 5 builders/miners should be easily adaptable to builders+diggers, though I have not confirmed this.

Zany 18 is theoretically possible on DOS (with different RR adjustments), but I'm not going to try and actually pull it off.
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Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Fewest different kinds of skills
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2020, 05:59:26 AM »
Manic replays. Not as many of interest here, though Manic 16 Bombers + Builders is a very nice one.
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Offline Minim

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Fewest different kinds of skills
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2020, 07:52:15 AM »
Like some people go forwards when they see a new challenge, I went the other way and focused on the Lunatic levels. Here are my full set of results so far, with replays highlighted in bold. Any errors please mention. I'm trying not to confuse the Climber with the Floater or the digger with the miner. :P

1. Builders+Bashers+Miners+Diggers (Same as Proxima's 4 skill solution)
2. Builders+Bombers
3. Builders+Miners
4. Climbers+Blockers+Builders+Bashers+Miners
5. Climbers+Blockers+Bashers+Miners, Climbers+Builders+Bashers+Miners
6. Builders+Miners+Diggers
7. Blockers+Builders+Diggers
8. Climbers+Builders+Miners (Same as my minimum skills solution)
9. Climbers+Builders+Bashers+Miners
10. Floaters+Builders+Diggers
11. Builders
12. Builders+Bashers+Miners, Floaters+Builders+Miners
13. Climbers+Builders+Bashers, Climbers+Builders+Diggers
14. Builders+Bashers
15. Builders+Bashers+Miners+Diggers
16. Climbers+Builders+Bashers+Diggers
17. Climbers+Bombers+Builders+Bashers
18. Blockers+Builders

19. Builders+Bashers+Diggers
20. Climbers+Floaters+Builders+Bashers
21. Bombers+Builders
22. Climbers+Floaters+Builders+Bashers
23. Climbers+Floaters+Builders+Bashers
24. Builders+Bashers+Diggers
25. Builders+Bashers+Diggers
26. Builders+Diggers
27. Blockers+Builders+Bashers
28. Blockers+Builders+Bashers+Diggers
29. Blockers+Builders+Diggers
30. Climbers+Builders+Miners+Diggers
31. Diggers
32. Floaters+Builders+Bashers+Miners

I also did Manic 25 with Builders, Bashers & Miners and Manic 30 with Floaters, Bombers, Builders & Bashers.

Edit: Replays updated!
« Last Edit: March 04, 2021, 07:02:53 AM by Minim »
Level Solving Contest creator. Anybody bored and looking for a different challenge? Try these levels!

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Online Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Fewest different kinds of skills
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2020, 10:41:06 AM »
Excellent! I've looked through the Lunatic results and don't see any errors, although you missed two that we already did in SYCLW: 24 "Everyone's a hard nut" with climbers+builders+bashers and 25 "Watch right or left (Part Two)" with bombers+builders+bashers.

We have results for Manic 1-30 on Discord, so that means there are only two levels left to do, though I will definitely also look over Lunatic myself and see if I can improve any of your results (and I expect namida will want to do so, too). However:

I also did Manic 25 with Builders, Bashers & Miners and Manic 30 with Floaters, Builders, Miners, Diggers.

I can believe the former, but Manic 30 "POOR WEE CREATURES" doesn't provide any diggers.

Offline Minim

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Fewest different kinds of skills
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2020, 01:10:19 PM »
I also did Manic 25 with Builders, Bashers & Miners and Manic 30 with Floaters, Builders, Miners, Diggers.

I can believe the former, but Manic 30 "POOR WEE CREATURES" doesn't provide any diggers.

Whoops! :-[ I mindlessly copied Lunatic 30's result and swapped Climbers with Floaters. I was meant to say Floaters, Bombers, Builders & Bashers
Level Solving Contest creator. Anybody bored and looking for a different challenge? Try these levels!

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Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Fewest different kinds of skills
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2020, 09:29:17 PM »
Several 2-skill-type solutions for Manic 31.

It's probably also possible, with some RR fiddling, to do Builders+Diggers in the same way I did Builders+Bashers and Builders+Miners.
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Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Fewest different kinds of skills
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2020, 10:06:13 PM »
Some alternates for Lunatic 23, and an improvement for Lunatic 28.

Lunatic 7 can also be done bombers+blockers+builders; this is just "do the normal solution but use bombers in place of diggers" so not worthy of a replay.
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Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Fewest different kinds of skills
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2020, 08:11:09 PM »
Manic 30 "POOR WEE CREATURES!" improved to 3 types (Floaters, Builders, Bashers).

EDIT: And an alternate 3 types with Climbers, Floaters, Builders.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2020, 08:18:26 PM by namida »
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Online Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Fewest different kinds of skills
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2020, 08:36:38 PM »
I've filled in all the results we have so far. Some trivia regarding this challenge:

* Of the levels possible with 1 skill type, Gentle 10 "Downwardly Mobile Lemmings" has the greatest variety of solutions, with six 1-type solutions (everything except climbers and floaters).
* Six is also the greatest variety of equally good solutions among levels needing more than 1 type, with Quirky 31 "Cascade" having six 3-type solutions.
* And since six is the magic number for this challenge, it's also the highest number of skill types required by any one level, with three levels needing 6 types: Gentle 28 "Catch more floaters", Quirky 29 "Tension Sheet, Good Idea" and Manic 10 "ROCKY VI". (Of these, Gentle 28 is the only level in Gentle requiring more than 2!)
* Levels solvable with 2 types nearly all require builders and a destructive skill. Roughly half have builders+bashers as either the only 2-type solution or one possible solution.
* Builders+bashers+diggers seems to be the most commonly occuring 3-skill combination.

Looking beyond Redux, I know of at least two levels, in packs restricted to the classic 8 skills, that require 7 skill types: "Academy of Eight" in DoveLems and "Playground" in Lemmings Migration. Both of these are 1-of-each levels. I don't know of any levels that require all eight skill types, but there are a lot of packs out there, and 1-of-each levels are popular, so I wouldn't be surprised if we find one!

EDIT: How could I have forgotten? My own level "Rhapsody in Blue" is a 2-of-each and requires all eight types. It's a Cheapo level that has also been remade in Lemmix and Lix, and is part of Revenge of the Lemmings, so it should be coming to NeoLemmix at some point....

In packs not restricted to the classic 8 skills, "POOR WEE CREATURETTES" in Lemminas requires 10 skill types.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2020, 08:53:51 PM by Proxima »