Author Topic: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings Open Air [Difficulty: Medium - Hard]  (Read 36108 times)

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Offline Gronkling

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings Open Air [Difficulty: Medium - Hard]
« Reply #60 on: December 02, 2020, 12:06:54 AM »
Level 9 felt fine, the shimmier part of level 29 felt very good though the rest seemed too simple. Also when I give a :thumbsup: it just means I don't have any particular comments, its just a good level.

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings Open Air [Difficulty: Medium - Hard]
« Reply #61 on: December 02, 2020, 03:43:50 AM »
More progress (click to show/hide)

Currently stumped on 19. I get the general idea but can't quite figure out how to put it all together (no hints yet please).
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings Open Air [Difficulty: Medium - Hard]
« Reply #62 on: December 02, 2020, 03:55:57 AM »
O.o Soft 19 is a really good level. I too was initially stumped, and I remember giving up for the night back when I pretested the pack, but shortly after I exited out I had a realization and quickly went back and tried out the idea I had in mind, and sure enough it was indeed the missing link that prevented me from solving it. Based on my experiences, it must be the very start that has you stuck, because once you figure that out the rest is very easy. You can do this, namida! :thumbsup:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings Open Air [Difficulty: Medium - Hard]
« Reply #63 on: December 02, 2020, 08:53:30 AM »
Alright, second update time!

Quote
Level 9 felt fine, the shimmier part of level 29 felt very good though the rest seemed too simple.

Thanks for your feedback! ;)

I did think back and forth about this, but it dawned on me that if I don't fix these two levels now, I will regret it down the road, as more and more people will go with alternative solutions and nobody will ever perform the intended one.

It feels a little weird to fix these two levels now after I had been more lenient on them during testing. But at least I still only break my two testers' solutions at this point, plus Gronkling's - instead of everyone's.

So, sorry to my testers, but at least now you also still have at least one new "tough nut" to enjoy cracking! ;) Because "'tis the season", isn't it? :D

And now, without further ado, here is the

Changelog (click to show/hide)

My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour (New & Old Formats), my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Lemmings Open Air, my newest release and follow-up to World Tour, 120 levels
Paralems (Old Formats), a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems (Old Formats), a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for (very old) NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings Open Air [Difficulty: Medium - Hard]
« Reply #64 on: December 02, 2020, 09:02:46 AM »
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings Open Air [Difficulty: Medium - Hard]
« Reply #65 on: December 02, 2020, 09:57:56 AM »
Re-solves / continuing (click to show/hide)
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline ericderkovits

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings Open Air [Difficulty: Medium - Hard]
« Reply #66 on: December 02, 2020, 10:13:19 AM »
Ok, I had to resolve 2 levels that broke, soft 17 and 19

I already knew soft 19 was going to change in the update so I solved it even before the update. (due to platforming high up)

Also I got the Talisman for soft 5, but I saved 61 because there was a cloner in the level.

Also I solved the 1st 10 levels so far of Loud, and yes only level 2 was hard among the 1st 10 of Loud. (I also got the Talisman for Loud 8)
Of course I still can't get the Talisman for Loud 1, just too difficult. And the Update didn't break my Loud 10 replay.

Anyways here are my 3 levels of soft.(2 resolves + soft 5 Talisman(61 saved))
             and the 1st 10 levels of Loud replays

Offline David

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings Open Air [Difficulty: Medium - Hard]
« Reply #67 on: December 02, 2020, 03:03:47 PM »
Strato Incendus : Thank you very much for these personalized explanations. I redid Soft level 2 and I think I found the expected solution (see replay !). I hadn't thought of using the glider when the shimmier was hooked. This is stupid ! :forehead: But... I like my idea of using the stoner when the shimmier is jumping. :lem-mindblown: :crylaugh:

I continued up to level 14 (out of order... :laugh:), and honestly find the levels pretty difficult overall (see replays !)

For fun, I took a look at the first 5 levels of the hardcore rank and I passed levels 1, 3 and 4, I found them quite easy (I have the replays, but I'll post them later ...). Bye ! ;P

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings Open Air [Difficulty: Medium - Hard]
« Reply #68 on: December 02, 2020, 05:30:17 PM »


I also need to correct my previous statements to some of the solutions to Soft 25:
Soft 25 (click to show/hide)

Regarding music choices:

The standard rotation emulates that of original lemmings, i.e. restarts at Soft 18. However, whenever I used an ONML tileset, I resorted to one of the ONML tracks, which played throughout the Noisemaker rank of Lemmings World Tour.

Responses to David's new replays later in a second comment! ;)
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour (New & Old Formats), my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Lemmings Open Air, my newest release and follow-up to World Tour, 120 levels
Paralems (Old Formats), a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems (Old Formats), a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for (very old) NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings Open Air [Difficulty: Medium - Hard]
« Reply #69 on: December 02, 2020, 05:50:44 PM »
Next update is here, because we had three further backroutes with yesterday's version:

Changelog (click to show/hide)


Quote
For fun, I took a look at the first 5 levels of the hardcore rank and I passed levels 1, 3 and 4, I found them quite easy (I have the replays, but I'll post them later ...). Bye !

Yes, Hardcore 03 and 04 were some of the first levels created for this pack, so they're much easier than what I came up with towards the end.

Since there's still somewhat of a music-genre split between ranks, it's a little like in Lemmings 2: The Tribes, where you have increasing difficulty within each Tribe / rank from the first to the last level, but not necessarily always from the last levels of one rank to the first levels of the next one.

Some of the late Heavy levels (which were created much later than those early Hardcore levels) are probably harder than the begining of Hardcore... but trust me, Hardcore is not going to stay like that for long. :P

Also, Hardcore 04 in particular might be another one of those "unfixable" levels, at least for adept players, because they'll always find any unfixable backroutes - whereas for average players, they can still pose a challenge, because not all backroutes are equally easy to discover.

For example, David was the very first person to backroute Soft 11, nobody else had even considered doing that. :thumbsup:
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour (New & Old Formats), my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Lemmings Open Air, my newest release and follow-up to World Tour, 120 levels
Paralems (Old Formats), a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems (Old Formats), a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for (very old) NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Offline ericderkovits

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings Open Air [Difficulty: Medium - Hard]
« Reply #70 on: December 02, 2020, 08:05:35 PM »
ok, again my soft 17 broke for the 2nd time with the new update(removing 1 fencer)

no other levels failed(all passed with mass replay check)

Here is my re-resolved soft 17


Offline kaywhyn

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings Open Air [Difficulty: Medium - Hard]
« Reply #71 on: December 02, 2020, 08:32:07 PM »
Once again, all the many replays that have been coming in for the last several days continues to amaze me at how much this pack is currently being played. Even more amazing is how various people have still found ways to backroute a lot of the levels despite having a few pre-testers for the pack :thumbsup: This confirms to me that even after a pack is pre-tested, backroutes will surely still show up in some way, as it can just be a case that the pre-testers simply didn't catch them. With only 2-3 of us pre-testing, this was bound to happen anyway. With more pre-testers, each with differing level solving skills, I'm sure there wouldn't be as much backroutes, although it's not much help if several of them happen to find the same solutions. The difference is that the less experienced players will probably be less likely to come up with the same solutions that the experts will see more easily.

I haven't seen a lot of the replays, but I have been reading the level feedback and have commented on them accordingly. Keep up the great work, guys! :thumbsup: 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Gronkling

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings Open Air [Difficulty: Medium - Hard]
« Reply #72 on: December 02, 2020, 08:57:20 PM »
Finished rank 3! Some tricky levels here, probably a bit harder overall than rank 1, though not hugely so. However the number of skills I've been saving has increased again, there was only 2 where I didn't save extra.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings Open Air [Difficulty: Medium - Hard]
« Reply #73 on: December 03, 2020, 12:26:18 AM »
Since Gronkling seems to be breezing through this pack, it shouldn't come as a surprise that we already have the next update! :P


Quote from: kaywhyn
This confirms to me that even after a pack is pre-tested, backroutes will surely still show up in some way

Well, I could have told you that long ago, since I was one of the testers for United... IchoTolot sent us so many updates during the test phase that at some point I lost track of what the current version was (aside from the fact that I wasn't able to solve pretty much anything beyond the first rank anyway :D ). And even still, if you look at the Lemmings United thread right now, it has 22 pages and is currently at version 12.9 (after starting at version 1.0). So you can already see how many updates have been made to this pack due to backroute fixes even long after its release. ;)


My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour (New & Old Formats), my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Lemmings Open Air, my newest release and follow-up to World Tour, 120 levels
Paralems (Old Formats), a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems (Old Formats), a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for (very old) NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings Open Air [Difficulty: Medium - Hard]
« Reply #74 on: December 03, 2020, 02:46:47 AM »
Well, I could have told you that long ago, since I was one of the testers for United... IchoTolot sent us so many updates during the test phase that at some point I lost track of what the current version was (aside from the fact that I wasn't able to solve pretty much anything beyond the first rank anyway :D ). And even still, if you look at the Lemmings United thread right now, it has 22 pages and is currently at version 12.9 (after starting at version 1.0). So you can already see how many updates have been made to this pack due to backroute fixes even long after its release. ;)

Yes, but this is expected since the aim was to make the levels as backroute proof as possible, especially in regards to the prize for completely solving all of United with intended/acceptable solutions. Also, the difference between the amount of levels of United from LOA is more than 100, so the many updates for United were definitely to be expected! :P And yes, I'm quite surprised that even josh was still able to backroute some levels even after all my solutions were accepted by Icho. Therefore, I think I shouldn't be surprised anymore if more still manage to come up from other players who are currently playing through United. However, the number of updates needed after I completely solved the pack wasn't as much as when I played through the pack. For example, only a few updates were needed for the War rank for a few levels, and similarly for Genocide.

Here, though, I think it's more to do with the various skill levels of the players. Less experienced players will likely backroute levels in different ways than the experts, who generally will be able to catch them more easily. You can correct me if I'm wrong, but I still stand by my statement that I don't think I have seen so much replays/feedback come in for a pack in the first few days since a pack's release. I think from what I've seen the first set of replays/feedback for a pack generally doesn't come in until at least a week or so has passed since release. Guess I'll have to look back at the level pack topics and see if that has indeed been the case. At least this has always been the impression that I've gathered regarding packs getting replays/feedback.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0