Author Topic: [NeoLemmix] Use every skill!  (Read 246 times)

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Offline WillLem

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[NeoLemmix] Use every skill!
« on: November 20, 2020, 06:43:24 am »
I've decided to make this into a challenge since namida's almost certainly correct about it being a fairly redundant Talisman idea.

The aim of this challenge is to find out which levels can be solved whilst using every single available skill in that level. Therefore, the levels which normally supply a large number of unnecessary skills will likely present the biggest challenge.

Any pack is welcome, custom packs are particularly encouraged. Let the fun commence!

:lemcat:

Oh, also... I usually insist on max saves whenever I'm proposing a challenge, but for the purposes of this challenge, any% is fine. Of course, if you can save the maximum possible, great!

Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Use every skill!
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2020, 06:43:48 am »
Original Lemmings

Fun

1-9, 12-15 all possible
9-11 maybe possible, pending investigation of a trick I've just learned about

16 onwards pending

Offline Minim

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Use every skill!
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2020, 12:17:18 pm »
Because of how tedious this challenge is, I don't think I'll be able to do all of this, but I have one important trick which should help you succeed in some of the "not possible levels".

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

With this trick I can confirm that on Quirky 8 of Lemmings Redux can be solved 100% using all skills. This level requires 18/20, but you have 8 bombers, along with 8 of the rest. Replay attached.

I also think the replay files for this challenge are going to be a huge size. :XD:
Level Solving Contest creator. Anybody bored and looking for a different challenge? Try these levels!

Neolemmix: #1 #4 #5 #6
Lix: #2  #7
Both Engines: #3

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Use every skill!
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2020, 06:18:20 pm »
I have no intent of going through every level for this, but just as one example, you jumped to conclusions way too soon on 8...

It should be possible to do a save-all based on these ideas. Likewise, you can almost certianly do something similar on most levels that are "X-of-all, including more bombers than you can get away with using".

And yes, levels that require this trick already exist. :P
« Last Edit: November 20, 2020, 06:24:26 pm by namida »

Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Use every skill!
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2020, 12:49:22 am »
Interesting trick, thanks for sharing! A question occurs, though - how could this trick ever be required as part of a level's solution?

EDIT - I just tried doing this in 9 but it doesn't seem to be working. Is it just a case of Digging underneath the Oh-noer?

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Use every skill!
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2020, 12:58:22 am »
Interesting trick, thanks for sharing! A question occurs, though - how could this trick ever be required as part of a level's solution?

The following levels in my packs all involve variations on this trick - obviously a bit different, as they aren't a matter of "use a bomber just for the sake of using it":

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline MASTER-88

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Use every skill!
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2020, 01:24:51 pm »
Just asking. Did you can make Mayhem 11 We alla fall down 80 Digger.? We all fall down using all skills. I think i persoanally wanted try that my pausefree solution on SNES.

Otherwise this challenge not interested me so much. Bombs and bashers is easy to lost.

Taxing 3 miners will be some real challenge. 30 fucking miners and 2:00 time limit

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Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Use every skill!
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2020, 09:19:34 pm »
Quote
30 fucking miners and 2:00 time limit

Not at all. Send a climber out of the pit ~10 seconds ahead of the crowd. Make him build a little bit before the actual bridge to the exit, just one builder. Now, later, as the crowd walks past, make lemmings mine on the last pixel. They won't remove any actual terrain, and it delays them by only a total of 2 frames (then maybe 3 more for the falling) - and while this level is quite tight for time, it has more than enough leniency for this. The hard part on that one will be the bombers - same trick as usual works, but there's not much room for error.

EDIT: And on further thought, rather than this, you can probably just have the crowd mine off the edge of the actual bridge to the exit.

Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Use every skill!
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2020, 01:46:00 am »
@namida - How is the "Oh-noer rescue" trick actually performed? If I can get to grips with it, I'll make solving Taxing 3 the main focus of this challenge for now.

@Master88 - Regarding Mayhem 11, using all Diggers is fairly easy (particularly in NeoLemmix). Here's a replay.

Offline namida

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Use every skill!
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2020, 04:14:58 am »
Quote
@namida - How is the "Oh-noer rescue" trick actually performed? If I can get to grips with it, I'll make solving Taxing 3 the main focus of this challenge for now.

At its core, the trick comes down to "ohnoers are still able to interact with objects until they actually explode". Beyond that is just how to make that happen. The two ways you can do this here:
- Build over the exit. Assign bomber above the exit. Remove the ground under the bomber's feet so they fall into the exit.
- Build over the exit. Assign digger above the exit. Once the digger has dug far enough that there's no terrain directly under him, assign a bomber.

Offline Minim

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Use every skill!
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2020, 05:36:59 am »
- Build over the exit. Assign digger above the exit. Once the digger has dug far enough that there's no terrain directly under him, assign a bomber.

Nice find! This method is particularly useful for isolated lems (Which I did have problems with during Quirky 8 after I scattered climbers in different directions). With the obstacles cleared, the exit platform on that level is incredibly long and I was fortunate to have enough builders to slow them down until the other lems arrived.
Level Solving Contest creator. Anybody bored and looking for a different challenge? Try these levels!

Neolemmix: #1 #4 #5 #6
Lix: #2  #7
Both Engines: #3

Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Use every skill!
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2020, 03:23:27 am »
At its core, the trick comes down to "ohnoers are still able to interact with objects until they actually explode". Beyond that is just how to make that happen. The two ways you can do this here:
- Build over the exit. Assign bomber above the exit. Remove the ground under the bomber's feet so they fall into the exit.
- Build over the exit. Assign digger above the exit. Once the digger has dug far enough that there's no terrain directly under him, assign a bomber.

OK, I've mastered it now. I had a go at Taxing 3 and managed to use up 18 Bombers using a combination of these methods.

Aside from learning this new trick, which is quite cool, I must concede that this is otherwise a fairly tedious challenge! Whilst it was good to explore the idea briefly, I'd rather spend my lemmings-playing time doing more interesting things. So, I'm out 8-)