Author Topic: can mantha make a pack??? (Read 10526 times)

mantha16 · « **on:** April 30, 2020, 07:39:21 PM »

my 1st ever attempt at making a level. Its basic but it worked so yay me but can I make a whole pack.

Also is it possible to turn your own art into bits to create levels?

Proxima · « **Reply #1 on:** April 30, 2020, 07:46:18 PM »

Quote from: mantha16 on April 30, 2020, 07:39:21 PM

Also is it possible to turn your own art into bits to create levels?

Yes. Go into NL's "styles" folder and make a new folder called "mantha16_special" (or just "mantha_special" if you prefer), make a subfolder "terrain" inside that, then put any art you like inside it (it must be in PNG format) and it will be a selectable style in the level editor. If you want to share levels using your new style, there are two options: either make a zip of the style and post this together with the levels, or submit it to namida to be automatically downloadable within NL (only do this if you are sure your style is ready for it).

mantha16 · « **Reply #2 on:** April 30, 2020, 07:49:39 PM »

Quote from: Proxima on April 30, 2020, 07:46:18 PM

Quote from: mantha16 on April 30, 2020, 07:39:21 PM
Also is it possible to turn your own art into bits to create levels?

Yes. Go into NL's "styles" folder and make a new folder called "mantha16_special" (or just "mantha_special" if you prefer), make a subfolder "terrain" inside that, then put any art you like inside it (it must be in PNG format) and it will be a selectable style in the level editor. If you want to share levels using your new style, there are two options: either make a zip of the style and post this together with the levels, or submit it to namida to be automatically downloadable within NL (only do this if you are sure your style is ready for it).

Thanks proxima

are there rules against using trademarked images?

Proxima · « **Reply #3 on:** April 30, 2020, 07:50:28 PM »

Replay for your level. It's simplistic but not trivial, and it has potential for interesting challenges (working out the maximum possible to save and minimum skills needed, for example). Not at all bad for a first level!

Proxima · « **Reply #4 on:** April 30, 2020, 07:52:33 PM »

Quote from: mantha16 on April 30, 2020, 07:49:39 PM

are there rules against using trademarked images?

On this forum we are pretty lax about copyright and trademark law

Flopsy has, for example, included in his flopsy_special style the logos of Irn-Bru, Sonic the Hedgehog and The Crystal Maze, and I don't think he strictly holds the rights to any of them

mantha16 · « **Reply #5 on:** April 30, 2020, 07:54:01 PM »

Quote from: Proxima on April 30, 2020, 07:50:28 PM

Replay for your level. It's simplistic but not trivial, and it has potential for interesting challenges (working out the maximum possible to save and minimum skills needed, for example). Not at all bad for a first level!

ok Im a total simpleton but I only figured out how to watch replays in existing packs about 2 weeks ago how do I watch your replay of my level?

mantha16 · « **Reply #6 on:** April 30, 2020, 07:55:06 PM »

Quote from: Proxima on April 30, 2020, 07:52:33 PM

Quote from: mantha16 on April 30, 2020, 07:49:39 PM
are there rules against using trademarked images?

On this forum we are pretty lax about copyright and trademark law Flopsy has, for example, included in his flopsy_special style the logos of Irn-Bru, Sonic the Hedgehog and The Crystal Maze, and I don't think he strictly holds the rights to any of them

excellent look out for rugby themed levels

:lem-mindblown:

Proxima · « **Reply #7 on:** April 30, 2020, 07:57:57 PM »

Quote from: mantha16 on April 30, 2020, 07:54:01 PM

how do I watch your replay of my level?

Start playing the level, then press either the "load replay" panel button (the yellow folder with an R) or its associated hotkey (L by default). If you need to check what your hotkeys are, press F3 on the main menu.

mantha16 · « **Reply #8 on:** April 30, 2020, 08:02:23 PM »

well you did the same solution as me so thats good I guess. I'm not sure how much ability I have for designing levels but I did enjoy trying so maybe I'll try for a small pack

namida · « **Reply #9 on:** April 30, 2020, 08:07:37 PM »

Quote from: Proxima on April 30, 2020, 07:52:33 PM

Quote from: mantha16 on April 30, 2020, 07:49:39 PM
are there rules against using trademarked images?

On this forum we are pretty lax about copyright and trademark law Flopsy has, for example, included in his flopsy_special style the logos of Irn-Bru, Sonic the Hedgehog and The Crystal Maze, and I don't think he strictly holds the rights to any of them

As the developer of NL, I would not put up any resistance if a trademark owner asked me to remove such an image from NL (except perhaps if the request in question threatened NL as a whole, rather than just a single image used in one level); but until such a request came through (which has never happened yet), I wouldn't care.

mantha16 · « **Reply #10 on:** April 30, 2020, 08:15:35 PM »

ok so heres my second level I was thinking before I started trying to mess with creating my own tilesets I would attempt to create a small pack by adding a little something to each level and trying different solutions. I'm not sure it will be for skilled players but it seems like a good way for me to dip my toe in designing as it were.

Proxima · « **Reply #11 on:** April 30, 2020, 08:23:56 PM »

Devious! You got me at first with that little gap before the exit

mantha16 · « **Reply #12 on:** April 30, 2020, 08:29:15 PM »

well that was a way smarter solution than mine lol

mantha16 · « **Reply #13 on:** April 30, 2020, 08:40:13 PM »

ok last one on its own for now then ill try and complete a few more. I might have to start thinking about actually naming the levels

Proxima · « **Reply #14 on:** April 30, 2020, 08:47:06 PM »

And now for something completely different....

mantha16 · « **Reply #15 on:** April 30, 2020, 09:07:18 PM »

Quote from: Proxima on April 30, 2020, 08:47:06 PM

And now for something completely different....

and not even remotely similar to my solution. Now I understand why people have testers lol

mantha16 · « **Reply #16 on:** May 01, 2020, 03:47:10 AM »

ok so theres a steep learning curve so I have decided I will work on my levels first then worry about additional graphics titles etc at a later date

The working title is Sammings (I'm sure its not hard to figure out why) I've got 8 levels so far

Feedback welcomed (please be kind this is the first time I've ever attempted anything like this and I'm learning as I am doing so there will be lots of mistakes I'm sure)

Proxima · « **Reply #17 on:** May 01, 2020, 04:06:30 AM »

Interesting set of miniatures. I like the "variations on a theme" idea, and they were all fun to solve. Several of them had skills left over or I was able to save more than required, but that's not a bad thing. The only one I haven't solved yet is Level 3 (the swimmer level).

mantha16 · « **Reply #18 on:** May 01, 2020, 12:38:44 PM »

Quote from: Proxima on May 01, 2020, 04:06:30 AM

Interesting set of miniatures. I like the "variations on a theme" idea, and they were all fun to solve. Several of them had skills left over or I was able to save more than required, but that's not a bad thing. The only one I haven't solved yet is Level 3 (the swimmer level).

I think I'm going to go with this sort of format for my whole pack I havent quite worked out how to increase the size of the playing area yet and I think for a newb like me keeping to a one screen level helps and just by making minor tweeks to the terrain you can completely change how to solve the level. I think it can still be a fun pack and each 'rank' can be a different tileset.

What do you think?

mantha16 · « **Reply #19 on:** May 01, 2020, 04:40:20 PM »

heres a few more levels from my next 'rank'

feedback welcomed

WillLem · « **Reply #20 on:** May 01, 2020, 04:52:44 PM »

Solved the "mantha" levels - these are great: good fun, not too difficult, but not gimmes either. Plenty of thinking space for different solutions as well, which is always a bonus.

I'm not sure if these solutions are intended, but I managed to solve all of them in under 1 minute which was very satisfying!

My stats for these levels:

mantha 1- 0:51.94 / All 41 Saved
mantha 2 - 0:51.06 / 39 Saved
mantha 3 - 0:57.76 / 30 Saved

One thing I would advise is spending just a little bit of time decorating your levels. EDIT: Don't worry too much about this btw, some of the best levels are the ones with the simplest layouts!

You clearly have decent puzzle-making skills, so once you have the main structure of the level down, it's worth dipping back into the tiles to add a bit of eye candy (back in the DMA days, Dave Jones always used to tell Gary Timmonds to decorate his levels as well, so you're not alone!)

Also solved the Sammings mini-pack as well. These were great little levels, some neat puzzles in here and, like Proxima, I enjoyed that they were all linked by a similar theme. You could definitely develop this idea, expand on it, and make a full pack of levels like these.

Here are my stats for the Sammings levels (again, all solvable in under 1 minute, and some were solvable in under 30 seconds as well - great fun getting these!):

Sammings 1 - 0:29.06 (36/40 Saved)
Sammings 2 - 0:27.41 (37/40 Saved)
Sammings 3 - 0:39.59 (37/40 Saved)

Sammings 4 (click to show/hide)

Quote from: mantha16 on May 01, 2020, 12:38:44 PM

I havent quite worked out how to increase the size of the playing area yet

In the editor, under the "Globals" tab, next to "Size" change the values for W (Width) and H (Height). The "Start" values determine the start position of the screen (press F5 to see where it's currently set):

Quote from: mantha16 on May 01, 2020, 12:38:44 PM

just by making minor tweeks to the terrain you can completely change how to solve the level. I think it can still be a fun pack and each 'rank' can be a different tileset.

What do you think?

Definitely, it's a great idea. I'm really looking forward to seeing more of your levels - I'd say the answer to the OP's title question is a resounding YES!

mantha16 · « **Reply #21 on:** May 01, 2020, 05:04:25 PM »

Quote from: WillLem on May 01, 2020, 04:52:44 PM

One thing I would advise is spending just a little bit of time decorating your levels.

I don't want to add terrain as I feel that takes away the idea of my pack but can i add backgrounds stuff like that? That will be another learning area for me yike. I think I'm aiming for around 40 levels total for the pack because I don't want to overwhelm myself

shall have a look at your replays now

mantha16 · « **Reply #22 on:** May 01, 2020, 05:09:21 PM »

Proxima and WillLem ok so for some reason I'm having trouble watching your zipped replays obvs I've unzipped them but when i load them in the relevant level nothing happens all the lemmings die.

Proxima · « **Reply #23 on:** May 01, 2020, 05:13:37 PM »

Quote from: mantha16 on May 01, 2020, 12:38:44 PM

I think I'm going to go with this sort of format for my whole pack I havent quite worked out how to increase the size of the playing area yet

EDIT: WillLem answered this while I was typing

For a pack like this where you are only using a very small area for your puzzles, one option is to add decorative terrain around them, but another, equally respectable option is to decrease the level size to the portion you are using so there isn't a lot of empty space around the puzzle area.

Quote from: mantha16 on May 01, 2020, 05:04:25 PM

I don't want to add terrain as I feel that takes away the idea of my pack but can i add backgrounds stuff like that?

Yes, the background selection menu is at the bottom of the "Globals" tab. Bear in mind, though, that every background comes from a specific style, so if you set a background, the user will have to have that style to be able to play your level.

Quote from: mantha16 on May 01, 2020, 05:09:21 PM

Proxima and WillLem ok so for some reason I'm having trouble watching your zipped replays obvs I've unzipped them but when i load them in the relevant level nothing happens all the lemmings die.

There's a number of possible causes. For one, you may have loaded a replay for the wrong level; this would be easy to do when they don't have titles. Also, you may have accidentally cancelled replay mode by left-clicking after loading the replay. (You can tell when you are in replay mode by the red "R" in the upper-left of the skill panel.) If that happens, you have to load the replay again.

WillLem · « **Reply #24 on:** May 01, 2020, 05:21:31 PM »

Quote from: mantha16 on May 01, 2020, 05:09:21 PM

Proxima and WillLem ok so for some reason I'm having trouble watching your zipped replays obvs I've unzipped them but when i load them in the relevant level nothing happens all the lemmings die.

I've sorted it now - all the levels were in the wrong order.

This sometimes happens when they don't have titles - even if you apply a title as simple as "Level 1", it's preferable to leaving it blank mainly for this reason.

I've uploaded the replays again in the correct order and rearranged the above stats accordingly!

mantha16 - Are you on Discord btw?

mantha16 · « **Reply #25 on:** May 01, 2020, 05:30:07 PM »

Quote from: WillLem on May 01, 2020, 05:21:31 PM

mantha16 - Are you on Discord btw?

since I don't know what that is I will have to say no lol

Proxima · « **Reply #26 on:** May 01, 2020, 07:21:45 PM »

Solutions to the "part 2" levels. Another nice batch. Levels 2 and 3 felt a bit repetitive -- stacker staircasing is not the most enjoyable activity in the game, and personally I would be okay with one level like this but not two in a row. However, Level 4 was a really nice puzzle where I really had to work out how to make the most of the given skills. This is definitely your best level so far

namida · « **Reply #27 on:** May 01, 2020, 08:10:00 PM »

Quote from: mantha16 on May 01, 2020, 05:30:07 PM

Quote from: WillLem on May 01, 2020, 05:21:31 PM

mantha16 - Are you on Discord btw?

since I don't know what that is I will have to say no lol

Discord is basically an app used for chat. There are various "servers", which could be thought of as a collection of related rooms. For example, you can click here to join the Lemmings Forums Discord server: https://discord.gg/2MyfSfN

You'll figure it out quickly enough, and we don't bite.

mantha16 · « **Reply #28 on:** May 01, 2020, 08:47:35 PM »

ok so I've been playing some more taking on board feedback I'm not sure If I'm doing things right so if people can check it out and let me know

Proxima · « **Reply #29 on:** May 01, 2020, 08:55:08 PM »

The levels.nxmi in your main folder is set up correctly, but each rank folder should also have a levels.nxmi inside it listing the levels in order.

mantha16 · « **Reply #30 on:** May 01, 2020, 08:56:36 PM »

Quote from: Proxima on May 01, 2020, 08:55:08 PM

The levels.nxmi in your main folder is set up correctly, but each rank folder should also have a levels.nxmi inside it listing the levels in order.

I did see those instructions but I figured i'd do that when I had all my levels completed or would it be easier to do as I go along?

Proxima · « **Reply #31 on:** May 01, 2020, 08:59:13 PM »

Yes, it's helpful to do it as you go along, especially if you are sharing your pack while it's in progress. Testers can play the levels in the intended order and give feedback on whether the ordering is good.

mantha16 · « **Reply #32 on:** May 01, 2020, 09:04:38 PM »

Quote from: Proxima on May 01, 2020, 08:59:13 PM

Yes, it's helpful to do it as you go along, especially if you are sharing your pack while it's in progress. Testers can play the levels in the intended order and give feedback on whether the ordering is good.

ok I'll make that my job for tomorrow

mantha16 · « **Reply #33 on:** May 01, 2020, 11:01:42 PM »

16 levels done 16 to go

Shmoley · « **Reply #34 on:** May 01, 2020, 11:09:10 PM »

It seems like you’re pack is going well! I’m definitely trying yours when it’s finished.

mantha16 · « **Reply #35 on:** May 01, 2020, 11:11:29 PM »

because I'm going for simple designs and generally small levels its going a bit quicker. I thought that was a good way to go for my first pack

Shmoley · « **Reply #36 on:** May 01, 2020, 11:16:09 PM »

That’s pretty much what I’m doing for my pack to, small levels with simple designs though I want to eventually by the end of the pack make my levels somewhat bigger and harder, even if it’s just a little bit.

mantha16 · « **Reply #37 on:** May 02, 2020, 01:56:06 PM »

24 down 8 to go

mantha16 · « **Reply #38 on:** May 02, 2020, 03:52:38 PM »

I have finished my pack I could use another volunteer to test the pack before release.

Anyone up for it?

WillLem · « **Reply #39 on:** May 02, 2020, 05:14:16 PM »

Quote from: mantha16 on May 02, 2020, 03:52:38 PM

I have finished my pack I could use another volunteer to test the pack before release.

Anyone up for it?

Sure thing, I'm happy to give it a go!

mantha16 · « **Reply #40 on:** May 02, 2020, 05:21:03 PM »

Quote from: WillLem on May 02, 2020, 05:14:16 PM

Quote from: mantha16 on May 02, 2020, 03:52:38 PM
I have finished my pack I could use another volunteer to test the pack before release.

Anyone up for it?

Sure thing, I'm happy to give it a go!

sent it to you thank you

Flopsy · « **Reply #41 on:** May 03, 2020, 02:59:50 AM »

Quote from: Proxima on April 30, 2020, 07:52:33 PM

Quote from: mantha16 on April 30, 2020, 07:49:39 PM
are there rules against using trademarked images?

On this forum we are pretty lax about copyright and trademark law Flopsy has, for example, included in his flopsy_special style the logos of Irn-Bru, Sonic the Hedgehog and The Crystal Maze, and I don't think he strictly holds the rights to any of them

Not to mention the amount of tilesets on this community which are based on other computer games in general, that would be a hazard in itself if any of the rights holders of said computer games took issue like SEGA for example (my Sonic tilesets).

And no I do not hold special rights to any of these but with the amount of Irn Bru I drink, I'd might as well be a shareholder in Barr

Look forward to seeing your pack when it is finished anyway mantha

mantha16 · « **Reply #42 on:** May 03, 2020, 01:38:44 PM »

Thanks Flopsy

The pack is done I'm just making a few tweaks here and there following on from the feedback from Proxima and WillLem.

I hopefully will release today or tomorrow.