[SUG][PLAYER] Improved menu/title/preview/postview screens

[WillLem]

12.8's high resolution mode is not without its teething problems, but it does look great and given the endless possibilities for custom styles which can now look better than ever before, it's an exciting time to be a fan of Lemmings!

Now that the look of the game itself has been improved, and it's already possible to make the panel look however you want it to by editing it yourself (EDIT: I've posted a picture of mine at the bottom of this post), I propose we as a community look at the possibilities of making NeoLemmix's various title screens look and feel as good as they possibly can.

My proposal would be to bring together all the best elements of the various versions (Amiga's colour scheme and text/logo proportions, NeoLemmix/DOS's larger level previews and the size/position of the menu elements, SuperLemmini's higher resolution and enhanced text) and create some really nice looking title screens.

Here is an example of the level-preview screen from each, so you can see the differences:

Amiga's pleasing colour scheme, and perhaps less pleasing level preview size:



SuperLemmini's enhanced resolution and tightened-up text size:



NeoLemmix/DOS's larger level preview and better overall proportion of images/text:



And a reminder of the differences between the Amiga (left) and DOS (right) menu screens. I think the DOS version has better positioning and relative-sizing of the various elements, but - as you can see - the Amiga version has everything in better proportion, albeit perhaps a bit too large:



I'm happy to do the work on the various elements that will need to be produced - backgrounds, text, menu cards, logo, etc., once the community has reached a consensus about how it should look. Hopefully, there'll be some way of assembling everything without having to completely re-write the code.

As for the pre/post-view screens, there has already been discussion about the possibilities of making these more interactive, maybe by including pictures. I think this is a great idea worth re-visiting. At the very least, the text could be improved and made easier to read as a very basic start on things.

So - what do you think, should we look at this? Or not bother. You decide!


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P.S. Here's what my custom panel looks like. I edited this using a simple PNG editing program. If you'd like to customise your own, the graphics can be found in NeoLemmix/gfx/panel (or panel-hr for hi-res mode) - just be careful to keep everything the same size. Or, if you like the look of mine and want me to send you the images I'll be more than happy to do so:

[IchoTolot]

I must say, I am not a fan of the amiga color scheme and much prefer the pure blue letters. Every line differently colored seems way too clowny for me.

- as you can see - the Amiga version has everything in better proportion, albeit perhaps a bit too large:

There I must disagree as well. I find the amiga menu vastly inferior to the current one.

The icons are waaaay too large and I feel it being heavily disproportioned. The current menu has some empty space, yes, but I would call that an advantage as otherwise it's way too crowded and uneasy on the eyes.


We also had a big discussion on the menu/level preview screen already. I remember it beeing shortly before or after the new formats release. If someone finds the topic it could be linked here again.

[namida]

Moved this to the correct place and fixed the topic title accordingly a bit.

Anyway, count me under the "don't really care either way" group (beyond maybe leaning a bit towards "no" on the grounds of "it means extra effort", but that's minor). If there's a strong opinion in favor of it, I'm open to changes, but even then it likely won't be a high priority.

[WillLem]

I must say, I am not a fan of the amiga color scheme and much prefer the pure blue letters. Every line differently colored seems way too clowny for me.

I agree to some extent; I'd say keeping the blue lettering is fine as long as something is done about the proportion of the text - it could do with being a touch taller and easier to read.

- as you can see - the Amiga version has everything in better proportion, albeit perhaps a bit too large:

There I must disagree as well. I find the amiga menu vastly inferior to the current one.

The icons are waaaay too large and I feel it being heavily disproportioned. The current menu has some empty space, yes, but I would call that an advantage as otherwise it's way too crowded and uneasy on the eyes.

Perhaps I was unclear in my OP; I agree that everything in the Amiga menu screen is way too large, making it seem overcrowded, but the proportions of the individual items themselves are correct as compared to the stretched look of the NL menu.

I do agree that the NL menu is better in terms of item placement/positioning, and space between the graphics, as I mentioned.

My thoughts are not that we should do things one way or the other, but that we should get a consensus on what the best features of each version are, and then incorporate them into a new set of graphics.

Anyway, count me under the "don't really care either way" group (beyond maybe leaning a bit towards "no" on the grounds of "it means extra effort", but that's minor). If there's a strong opinion in favor of it, I'm open to changes, but even then it likely won't be a high priority.

I'll do all the work in terms of getting graphics/text sorted (as per community consensus - I'll do some mockups and get a few votes in); as long as it won't mean too much messing about code-wise, hopefully there won't be all that much to do.

[WillLem]

OK, I've had a little play with the background, logos and menu cards and come up with these. Personally, I think the brown (on the right) is best for the main menu - note that I've used a higher resolution background image and muted the colours ever so slightly so that everything in the foreground stands out more. It's a first draft, but I think it works:

N.B. - The vertical size of the menu cards is currently limited, ideally these would be *slightly* bigger, but not by all that much.



For the pre-level screens, I really like the blue-on-green version (on the left). The only thing that really needs to happen here is more vertical pixel allowance for lettering:

[WillLem]

I've edited these screenshots manually to give an idea of how the menu & level screens could look (for reference, these can be compared to the screenshots in the most recent post above).

The menu has a higher resolution brown background with slightly muted colours to make the foreground images stand out more. I've enlarged the logo and cards ever so slightly whilst maintaining their positions on the page. Meanwhile, the text and scroller have been given more vertical profile so that they're easier to read:



The level pre-screen has the hi-resolution green background and blue lettering. I've enlarged the level preview very slightly, and left a gap between it and the title. I've also vertically enhanced the text again (by the same amount as in the menu screen), whilst raising the "press mouse button to continue" text up from the bottom of the screen but maintaining the 'paragraphing' of the text:



Thoughts?

[Proxima]

We also had a big discussion on the menu/level preview screen already. I remember it beeing shortly before or after the new formats release. If someone finds the topic it could be linked here again.

Link to the previous topic.

Also relevant is UI and talismans, since one proposal there is to remove the talisman info from the preview screen, in favour of finding another way to inform the player about talismans. (This was also proposed in the above-linked topic, although not for the same reasons.)

Thoughts?

As regards layout, your proposal for the level preview is a huge improvement on the current one -- it fixes the biggest problem, that the level title is too close to the image; and the proportions of the lettering make the text much nicer to look at.

However, there are two problems. There's no room for talisman info (which won't be a problem if we move talisman info elsewhere, but that's not decided for definite yet), nor for the level author. (Possibly "Press mouse button to continue" could be dropped to make room for this.)

For colour, though, I much prefer brown -- it looks like earth, which is nicely thematic for the game.

Your proposal for the main menu is much worse than the status quo. The cards should all be the same size, and they shouldn't have such large gaps between them -- especially around the "Level Select" card, where the text is squished tightly against the edges of the card and yet there is so much space the card could expand into!

[WillLem]

An improved version of the main menu, based on Proxima's comments:

I've made the "LEVEL SELECT" text fit a bit better and I've resized the rank graphic card so it's the same size as the others (EDIT - All cards could be increased in size whilst retaining the Lemmings proportions if they need to be bigger to fit the rank graphics on).

I've also adjusted the space between all the various elements so that there's a better spread.



And, here's a version which I think is even better. The logo and graphics are all as big as they can be without overcrowding each other like in the Amiga version, and everything is a bit more linear and inviting:



Thoughts?

[namida]

In your second proposal, how does the talisman sign get added in packs where it's applicable? It doesn't look like any room for it exists. (In the first, of course, it can just go in its usual place.)

[Proxima]

Maybe it could replace the "Quit" button? I do like the one-row arrangement and the larger logo (although I'm not sure what would happen then with packs having custom logos...)

[IchoTolot]

I am still for 2 rows, as I find it much more pleasent to the eyes + a better spread + it allows for enough space for all 6 cards and I also still think the status-quo is better in terms of graphic card size.

[Dullstar]

The preview/postview screens are the way they are just because Lemmix was built to mimic DOS Lemmings, and NeoLemmix was based on Lemmix. Some changes have been made to account for features that aren't a thing in NeoLemmix (e.g. passwords) or for features that have been added (e.g. talismans), but for the most part it's the same old DOS Lemmings screens. There's definitely both functional and cosmetic improvements that can be made here.

I'll start with the big functional change that I think needs to be made: Something needs to be done about talismans! That information isn't easy to stuff in there since the layout wasn't originally designed with them in mind. The letters in the font are very... T H I C C, shall we say... which makes it rather difficult to stuff a full description of the talisman in without making things very cluttered. The current font works fine for everything else, but it would look weird to have talismans have a different font than everything else. Perhaps the talismans could go somewhere else entirely, but then where should they go?

As for cosmetic changes to the existing design:

The Amiga's color scheme is easier to read than the DOS color scheme, which has somewhat poor contrast. If we were to stick with having all the text the same color as in the current design, I do think the green background is small improvement - particularly as the green version of the background has lower contrast between its brightest and darkest points, which I think makes it work better as a background on which to overlay text. Still, I think the color palette of the lettering can likely be improved - it should probably be made a bit brighter.

[WillLem]

In your second proposal, how does the talisman sign get added in packs where it's applicable? It doesn't look like any room for it exists. (In the first, of course, it can just go in its usual place.)

It could replace "Quit?"...

Maybe it could replace the "Quit" button? I do like the one-row arrangement and the larger logo (although I'm not sure what would happen then with packs having custom logos...)

Logo-wise, any existing logos would either have to be updated manually by the pack creator to fit the new size OR they could be automatically resized using a magic tool of some kind which makes them the correct size whilst maintaining their aspect ratio. Since all logos were uploaded to a particular spec, this hopefully won't be as difficult as it probably is.

I am still for 2 rows, as I find it much more pleasent to the eyes + a better spread + it allows for enough space for all 6 cards and I also still think the status-quo is better in terms of graphic card size.

This could work if we make it so that 2 lems are holding each card (see this post for example - note that the Rank card is being held by 2 lems in order to preserve its original size).

Again, I'd be more than happy to help implement any such changes, if people like the idea.

[WillLem]

Giving this another quick bump.

Since NeoLemmix is no longer a DOS clone, it deserves its own menu design.

At the moment, most of it can be user-defined anyway, but the proportions of the objects on the menu are all askew. If we put our heads together, I'm sure we can sort it out.

My offer to provide graphics still stands (after community consensus on what those graphics should be, of course).

[Dullstar]

On one hand, people have a lot of nostalgia for the original menu layouts, but on the other hand, Lix's menus are a lot cleaner than NeoLemmix's as a result of being completely unburdened by the design choices made in the original game back in the early 90s.

I'm certainly open to a drastic redesign for all these screens, since there's definitely stuff like Talisman information that's constantly plagued trying to make the current screens work.

[namida]

One thing I've mentioned on Discord: If there's a redesign from scratch (or close to it), one of my bottom lines is that the new menus should be more mouse-friendly than the existing ones. Indeed, even if we keep the current one I intend to make it mouse-friendly eventually, but it's a "this happens from day one" thing if a new one is implemented.

[WillLem]

Cool, so it looks like people are generally interested in the menu screens being improved/updated/redesigned etc.

Ideas?

[namida]

The first question here should be radical redesign vs slight tweaking.

I'm open to either. In the case of a redesign, my bottom line is that the starting point should be that at least every function / piece of information, but not necesserially every cosmetic detail, from the current menus / screens must be kept.

By "starting point", I simply mean that if anything is removed compared to the current layout, the removal is specifically discussed and considered. In particular, I suspect there might indeed be agreement to remove - or rather, move to a sub-menu of some kind - the talisman info; that's fine, just as long as this actually discussed and not just assumed as a default.

[WillLem]

Here's what I suggest for the menu (exact dimensions to be decided), assuming that it stays pretty much the same as it is now but with significant graphical and functional improvements:

Please note that this is a rough mockup to show the idea for discussion purposes - the end result would, of course, be much more refined/agreed-upon:



Note that the RANK SELECTION has been incorporated into the PLAY (F1) button:
Clicking the arrow buttons on the card would change the rank, clicking the card itself would start the game.
Similarly, using the keyboard arrows would select the rank, pressing F1 would start the game.

I suggest the TALISMAN card be removed, to be incorporated into the LEVEL SELECT (F2) screen (see below).

The SETTINGS/CONFIG (F3) card would be the same as it is now.

I suggest a new REPLAY (F4) card which loads a menu with the following functions:
- Mass replay check
- Load replay (this would allow a level and its replay to be loaded by selecting the replay file from the browser)
- Shortcut to replay settings

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Meanwhile, here's what I suggest for the F2 Menu:



There is so much free space on the right hand side that could easily be used to display level info, talisman info, and player records. This would remove the need for a talisman card on the main menu and be a much more navigable way of checking talisman info.

Thoughts?

[namida]

I've added a poll regarding to what extent we're willing to change the menu / etc screens.

[ccexplore]

It is more obvious to anyone and everyone when there's a button labeled "play", that it's the button you want to click to start playing.  Whereas it seems less obvious especially for new players if the button is labeled instead with the name of a rank (which for new players they might not even realize yet that's what it is).  Players who had played Lemmings and new to NeoLemmix may also be initially confused by lack of the "play" button they'd remember from the original game.

So I appreciate the idea of saving space by combining the two buttons, but I'm not too sure on whether it's wise to not have a "play" button.

Also, I'd rather the replay button just directly launch the file browser for you to select a replay file.  The other two features seem a bit niche and can probably be placed elsewhere, rather than being a speed bump (in the form of an extra menu) to "load replay".

[WillLem]

So I appreciate the idea of saving space by combining the two buttons, but I'm not too sure on whether it's wise to not have a "play" button.

5 cards could still be put in a single-row formation, which would probably be my preference if keeping the current general menu aesthetic. I'd suggest (not necessarily in this order):

PLAY (F1) / LEVEL SELECT (F2) / OPTIONS (F3) / REPLAY (F4) / RANK (UP/DOWN)

I'm also open to the idea of a complete redesign, given that NeoLemmix is very much its own engine now, and perhaps should make this point right away in the menu screen, like Lix does.

I'd go so far as to suggest a higher resolution menu as well (happy to volunteer to create graphics if needs be).

Also, I'd rather the replay button just directly launch the file browser for you to select a replay file.

Fair enough, although maybe the replay browser could be customised to include a Mass Replay check button/general replay options.

Can replay files be configured to load the correct level as well, or does the order have to be load level>load replay?

[namida]

I'd go so far as to suggest a higher resolution menu as well (happy to volunteer to create graphics if needs be).

Unsure about this. Currently, the menu resolution is equivalent to in-game high resolution. This should be plenty. There's also the consideration of users who play in windowed mode - downscaling could result in details becoming hard to observe, especially in text; and they likely won't want to make their window bigger just so the menu looks a bit nicer.

I'd prefer to keep the resolution the same, ultimately. Let's just consider changes to what's on it.

It looks like there's significant support for this - of 8 voters, only 1 has said "don't change it at all", with a futher 1 saying "minor tweaks only". The remaining 6 are either saying keep the graphical style but open to changing anything else, or that even the style should be open to change. Personally I'm one of the votes for "keep the graphical style", whoever the other one is, I would like to make sure we're on the same page about what this means: I envision that it means, we'd still keep a similar-looking logo and (default) background, probably still have scroller text of some kind, use a similar looking font, retain the concept of lemmings holding panels as being how options are displayed; but that functionality, both in terms of "what functions does it expose?" and "how do they work", is up for consideration. Basically, it's a vote that the menu should look similar at a quick glance, but that's all that should be kept.

I've put up a new poll to further distinguish "open to revising the visual style but okay with keeping the existing one", versus "specifically think the style should be redesigned too".