Author Topic: [Lemmings 3D][WIP] Lemmings Plus 3D (All levels complete; now in testing)  (Read 1218 times)

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Offline namida

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So... for the first time in years, I'm making a Lemmings Plus pack that doesn't run on NeoLemmix. Instead, this new pack will be for Lemmings 3D.

This will just be 80 levels, using the official Lemmings 3D graphics (including the Winterland ones) - I might slip in a few of my own modifications / additions, but it won't be completely custom graphics in the same way that the NeoLemmix entries (other than Lemmings Plus I and Lemmings Plus Alpha) are. I intend to reach a difficulty comparable to the peak of the official levels, around mid- to late- Taxing, with Mayhem being harder than anything in the official game - but this might be subject to change depending on exactly how many easy vs hard levels I come up with.

I've attached five eight demo levels, in approximate order of difficulty.

To play them, you'll need a full copy of L3D - you can try with the demos if you like but no promises that it'll work. Either the CD version or the floppy disk version is fine. The steps are as follows:
1. If you're using the CD version, copy all the files to your hard drive.
2. Download L3DUtils, place it in your Lemmings 3D folder, and use it to apply the music patch (under Game Patches). You can skip this step if you use CD audio for music, but you will not get the intended music on some levels if you use soundcard or MIDI audio and do not have the music patch applied.
3. Download the attachment and extract it into Lemmings 3D's "LEVELS" folder.
4. Run Lemmings 3D. If you need help with this, see this topic: How to play Lemmings 3D in DosBox.

The demo levels will replace Fun 1 to 8. Note that the official level's titles may remain on the level select screen until you complete these levels, if you have existing save data and don't use L3DUtils's "unlock all" feature (using that feature repairs any incorrect titles in the save file as well).

Note that L3DUtils, as mentioned in step 2, has several other useful features as well - most notably that you can use it to save and load replays. See L3DUtils's topic for more information.

The eight levels in the demo, and their current positions in the full pack (this may be subject to change), are as follows - note that I am observing L3D's usual convention of that eg. after "Fun 20", comes "Tricky 21", in the numbering here.
01: "Sea Of Sugar" (Candy), Fun 16
02: "Quadcore" (Computer), Fun 17
03: "Longboy" (Golf), Tricky 30
04: "The Nightman Cometh" (Pyramid), Tricky 37
05: "Space Station" (Space), Taxing 43
06: "No Spare Soldier" (Army), Mayhem 61
07: "Entanglement" (Lemgo), Taxing 58
08: "Acrobatics" (Circus), Mayhem 72

(The reason Mayhem 61 is before Taxing 58 in the demo, is because this was their order relative to each other when the demo was released - later reordering moved them the opposite way around.)

Solution replays are also attached, use L3DUtils to load them. If you can't get L3DUtils working, you can also replace a practice level, and its correspoding REPLAY.xxx file, with the demo level and the replay file respectively, then use the "Demo" mode for that practice level. (They won't work if used to replace the REP.xxx files as they won't have the correct level numbers for the demo.)



Current progress: 80 of 80 levels complete
Fun: 20 of 20
Tricky: 20 of 20
Taxing: 20 of 20
Mayhem: 20 of 20
« Last Edit: August 15, 2019, 10:15:57 pm by namida »

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D][WIP] Lemmings Plus 3D
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2019, 01:20:34 am »
(Reserved)

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D][WIP] Lemmings Plus 3D
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2019, 12:02:51 am »
Someone was going to use the unused graphics to do this sooner or later, so I figured I'd get it over and done with.

"Pac-Lems"
60 lemmings, 50 to save, 8:00 time limit, RR 50
5 of each skill

(The ghosts zap lemmings, but the yellow dots are purely aesthetic.)

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D][WIP] Lemmings Plus 3D
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2019, 04:47:46 am »
I tried translating the No Time To Die concept into 3D.

There are two things that make this concept so much nastier in 3D: Firstly, that unless there's a very ample number of deflector blocks, you need turners. And when 100% is required, these turners need to be freed, but they'll still face their original direction afterwards. And secondly, what you can do in 2 minutes in Lemmings 3D isn't as much as you can do in 2D lemmings.

I suspect the resulting level is possible to complete in under 2 minutes, but I felt this would be too nasty as I was struggling to achieve it, so I upped the time limit to 4 minutes. Make no mistake - this still requires a significant amount of multitasking, and there's a few advanced tricks that would be required even with infinite time simply due to the level's layout. On top of that, the 100% requirement is still completely intact, and that alone is extremely nasty. I expect this will likely be one of the pack's hardest levels, if not the hardest.

"Not Quite The Original Act"
Save 20 of 20
Release rate 99
Time limit 4:00
9 of each skill

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D][WIP] Lemmings Plus 3D
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2019, 09:13:27 pm »
I've reached 30 levels now... and I have almost a perfect "three in each style", except there's four Computer levels and two Castle levels.

With that being said, the distribution of styles isn't always so even. The worst offender is Circus, which has one level that's (by LP3D standards) early-Mayhem, one that's mid-Mayhem, and one that's late-Mayhem. :P That also means exactly half the Mayhem levels I've made so far are Circus levels (the other three are one each in Candy, Castle and Lemgo).



I've now reached 33 levels. 8 of the levels so far are enclosed levels - but there's quite a difference in enclosed level style usage compared to the official levels! Whereas the official level's enclosed levels were all Space levels except for one (Castle), I've got one each in Maze, Army and Golf; two in Space... and of the four Pyramid levels I've made so far, three of them are enclosed. I'm really finding the Pyramid style works well for enclosed levels.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2019, 10:17:48 am by namida »

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D][WIP] Lemmings Plus 3D
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2019, 11:55:38 pm »
Just hit the half-way mark. Here's the 40th (in creation order) level, "Sputlem IV", which is an early-Tricky (or maybe even late-Fun) level.

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D][WIP] Lemmings Plus 3D
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2019, 05:13:58 am »
I'd like to start looking for testers for this pack soon. Please contact me via PM (or in this topic, if you prefer) if you're interested.

Please make sure that:
- You are able to run Lemmings 3D with custom content (see if you can get the 5-level demo, attached to the first post in this topic, working)
- You are able to save replays using L3DUtils

Also, I'd prefer that it be kept private during the testing phase, so if you intend to LP the pack, you might prefer to avoid joining the testing team.

You don't have to be great at solving Lemmings 3D levels for this - after all, just because you can't find a complex intended solution doesn't mean you can't find the simple backroute I overlooked. Ideally, I like to get a mixture of different skill levels among testers, rather than all really strong or all really weak players. You'll be given an all-levels-unlocked save file, so you don't have to be able to beat each level to unlock the next one. (For that matter, I intend to ship a similar save file with the full pack when released, too - and even if I didn't, it's trivial to create one with L3DEdit.)

As always I'll reach out to some of my regular testers, though given that this is an L3D pack I'm not at all expecting that all of them will be interested, so there's likely quite a few spots available. :)

The main expectation for testing, is discovering any backroutes I've missed. A secondary, lower-priority goal is to get feedback on the relative difficulty of levels, to determine the best level order for the pack.

Offline NieSch

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Re: [Lemmings 3D][WIP] Lemmings Plus 3D
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2019, 11:40:07 am »
Great project! "Pac-Lems" is a cool idea for a level. :thumbsup:

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D][WIP] Lemmings Plus 3D
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2019, 09:08:54 pm »
Well, as was discovered quite a while ago, there's unused Pacman graphics in Lemmings 3D's data files. That exact level layout (minus the positioning of interactive parts, perhaps) was almost guaranteed to happen sooner or later thanks to that alone; so I figured I'd get it out of the way so there's less "Here it is just to prove it can be done" type levels (someone who actually has a really good idea for how to use it will likely make their level anyway, but it might reduce the "just because I can" poor-quality type levels). For much the same reason, I considered first releasing a pack consisting solely of every kind of unfair level I could think of, just because L3D's potential for unfair level design is utterly ridiculous (not to the extent of "you've got to go out of your way to avoid it", but definitely to the extent of "it's really, really easy to create blatantly unfair designs"), but I decided against it - I think as a community we've reached a point where most / all of us recognize the problem with unfair level designs, and try to avoid them outside of levels made specifically as technical demonstrations.

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D][WIP] Lemmings Plus 3D
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2019, 11:02:46 am »
Here's a level I made earlier today, "The Mansion". This was actually a concept I came up with very early during this pack's creation, but I couldn't get things to work properly at the time.

Some very careful considerations were needed to make the visual concept behind this level actually work, without the issue of "things look weird from certain angles" or "haha, face render limit strikes again". Though the somewhat boring appearance is more a limitation of the texture set than any technical limitation - the Maze 1 texture set really doesn't offer all that much to work decoratively when creating structures more than one or two blocks high, and Maze 2 and Maze 3 don't really offer much full stop. (This concept almost might've worked better for a Castle level, now that I think about it...)

This is a Fun level, so it's almost an X-of-everything-with-lenient-save-requirement... except you don't get given any turners.

« Last Edit: July 13, 2019, 01:38:23 am by namida »

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D][WIP] Lemmings Plus 3D
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2019, 02:12:58 am »
Just updated the demo to add three more levels to it - one from early-mid Fun, one from mid Tricky, and one from early Mayhem. Enjoy!

Note that I've no longer provided an all-levels-unlocked save, because it's now trivial to create one of your own using L3DUtils.



Upon reaching 50 levels, my style usage so far (enclosed levels, if any, in brackets):

6 levels: Space (2), Maze (1), Lemgo
5 levels: Castle, Pyramid (4), Candy, Circus (1)
4 levels: Army (1), Golf (1), Computer
« Last Edit: July 14, 2019, 04:16:19 am by namida »

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D][WIP] Lemmings Plus 3D
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2019, 01:38:14 am »
I tried to do some reordering to address the lack of Mayhem levels, and open up some more free slots around the middle difficulty.

While a lot of levels were swapped around, even across ranks; ultimately, the change was that Taxing had 1 fewer level and Mayhem had 1 more.

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D][WIP] Lemmings Plus 3D
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2019, 11:55:13 pm »
Upon reaching 50 levels, my style usage so far (enclosed levels, if any, in brackets):

6 levels: Space (2), Maze (1), Lemgo
5 levels: Castle, Pyramid (4), Candy, Circus (1)
4 levels: Army (1), Golf (1), Computer

Well, Army's definitely sprung back from this now (56 levels), being the first (and only, so far) style to hit 7 levels in it - with two enclosed levels now. The other three new levels bring Golf and Computer up to 5 each, with the last one being a Castle level. (EDIT: And Computer has now also hit 7 levels not much later. Golf, however, is still stuck back at 5.)
« Last Edit: July 22, 2019, 04:44:18 am by namida »

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D][WIP] Lemmings Plus 3D
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2019, 05:11:16 am »
Just hit 60 levels! Here's the 60th, "Royal Run", an early-mid Tricky level.

Save 6 of 10
Release rate 1
Time limit 5:00
5 turners, 4 builders, 1 basher

Offline namida

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Re: [Lemmings 3D][WIP] Lemmings Plus 3D
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2019, 11:58:59 pm »
W00t, 65 levels now, and for the first time since back when the total level count was still in the single-digits, Mayhem is in the lead! :D

I'd still be interested in getting one or two more pre-release testers, if anyone's interested - as expected, interest in testing has been a bit lower than usual, due to (I assume) this being an L3D pack.