Author Topic: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings United [Difficulty: Hard-Extreme]  (Read 70726 times)

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Offline kaywhyn

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings United [Difficulty: Hard-Extreme]
« Reply #195 on: June 23, 2020, 09:32:35 AM »
Haha, great job, Tomato Watcher. Good luck with the remaining 7 levels of the rank. I do remember some hard ones to come, in particular Pacifism 36, 37 (for me it wasn't a problem, but I know others found it hard), and 41, the rank finisher, so these might take you a while. However, I know you can do it, seeing how you managed to get to the point you're at now and how you beat some difficult ones along the way after some struggling. ;)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings United [Difficulty: Hard-Extreme]
« Reply #196 on: June 23, 2020, 02:22:11 PM »
Funny you say that; I'm stuck on Pacifism 36 as we speak!

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings United [Difficulty: Hard-Extreme]
« Reply #197 on: June 23, 2020, 04:43:55 PM »
Haha, I knew it. I just watched your attempt at it. The reason I brought up these 3 levels was because I remember them being difficult, and they are also seen as difficult levels by most. It's almost been a year since I've beaten all of the Pacifism rank, but these 3 are the ones I remember standing out as being difficult levels. However, as I previously mentioned in my last reply, 37 didn't give me as much problems, but others had trouble with it and it's generally seen as a difficult level. In particular, I too was stumped by Pacificism 36 for a time, and this level was the very first one in the rank that gave me problems and one where I was stuck for more than 10 minutes. So, this means you're not alone here being stuck on this level. It's a hard level for most, and for good reason: Multiple hatches, tall level, and a very limited skillsket. Not to mention that it's at the very end of the rank, so these last few are expected to be hard. Of course, level difficulty is subjective. Just because I was stuck on this level doesn't automatically mean that you will be, but it seems I was accurate in my analysis here, as you are indeed stumped on the level for the time being. At the same time, I thought these 3 were great levels despite the difficulty, especially the rank finisher. Keep at it, though, and you'll get through it eventually.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings United [Difficulty: Hard-Extreme]
« Reply #198 on: June 23, 2020, 05:30:16 PM »
Well, I just recorded another video and got through both 36 and 37!
36 was super satisfying to solve.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
37 was actually fairly easy for me, a bit like you said.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings United [Difficulty: Hard-Extreme]
« Reply #199 on: June 23, 2020, 05:31:53 PM »
Great job with both! Good luck with 41 when you get there. Like 36, it's quite satisfying to solve.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings United [Difficulty: Hard-Extreme]
« Reply #200 on: June 23, 2020, 09:38:09 PM »
And, Tension 34 solved!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also, resolved both Tension 25 and Tension 27

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Onward! :)
« Last Edit: June 23, 2020, 10:05:36 PM by kaywhyn »
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings United [Difficulty: Hard-Extreme]
« Reply #201 on: June 27, 2020, 07:58:41 AM »
Tension finally finished! Here are the rest of the replays for the rank, starting with 35 (see reply #200 for Tension 34, as well as Tension 25 and 27 resolved)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Overall, the Tension rank felt somewhat easier than the Neutrality rank, even though there were 2 levels that managed to stump me for a really long time, Tension 17 and Tension 34 (interesting how the two levels that stumped me are both multiples of 17). The former is difficult only because the solution is very well-hidden due to the steel, while the latter is difficult only if you don't know the "certain trick" you mentioned, but if you do then it's an extremely easy level. I certainly didn't know about the trick until I played that level from Wafflem's pack, so I felt that the detour I took to beat his pack seemed well worth it, as it allowed me to finally get past Tension 34. At the same time, I might had been able to figure it out even without playing Wafflem's level had I maybe spent more time on your level, but that's not certain. In any case, it's a trick I'm now aware of.

Onward to the War rank!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings United [Difficulty: Hard-Extreme]
« Reply #202 on: June 28, 2020, 11:27:48 AM »
Thanks for all the feedback and replays and great job on solving the rank :thumbsup:

I will look through everything once I am back from my little vacation. :)

I think a big reason why rank 3 felt a bit easier than rank 2 is the ammount of training and experience you got in between. The pack gets a lot easier once you saw the tricks before and used them a couple of times. Also, just a lot more lemmings "routine" can go a long way.

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings United [Difficulty: Hard-Extreme]
« Reply #203 on: July 01, 2020, 10:14:14 AM »
Been really hard at work playing your pack the last few days while you were away on vacation. Halfway through the War rank already! Here are War 1-20 replays. Lots of great levels in this bunch! :thumbsup:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote
I think a big reason why rank 3 felt a bit easier than rank 2 is the ammount of training and experience you got in between.

Good point! Didn't think about that. Welcome back, btw. :)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings United [Difficulty: Hard-Extreme]
« Reply #204 on: July 01, 2020, 01:45:11 PM »
V 11.0 is out!

Fixed backroutes thanks to kaywhyn's replays:

- 3 25 (added some terrain and pick-ups) I think I finally found a way to truly force the intended solution here.
- 3 39 (+1 save req) Did not remember why I gave an extra loss here.

- 4 02 (Added a OWW)
- 4 03 (Added OWWs and steel)
- 4 11 (Added steel)  Just a minor backroute here though.

Comments:

Tension 41 - The Igniting Spark the history of the looong timer:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

War 9 - DYNAmic Circuit

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

War 20 - Harkonnen Force

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

War 19 - Kraft Und Licht: It means "power and light".

All levels that were not possible were due to the NL glider update. There where quite a few levels where gliders did not reach their destination anymore due to them opening up their glider slightly later.

It amazes me how much the introduction pack already helps the player going through hard levels! Through all the intances I've read, here in this topic ALONE, contributing the knowledge of certain tricks and behaviors to the intro pack, I see that this is indeed the thing NL needed the most. It's not the new features, it's simply this - an easy way to get into the deeper mechanics of Lemmings (that is actually maintained).
It's still not done, but it will get there.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2020, 02:04:03 PM by IchoTolot »

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings United [Difficulty: Hard-Extreme]
« Reply #205 on: July 07, 2020, 11:54:31 PM »
And, War completed! Attached are the rest of the War replays from 21 to 41, and also War 2, 3, and 11, as well as Tension 25, resolved. In contrast to the first half, which I kind of breezed through with little difficulty, the second half of War slowed my progress considerably, as there were some major roadblocks. In particular, War 26 - I, Lemming and War 36 - Rise Over Run were the stumping points for me, the former for an entire day because I was stupid, the latter for about a day and a half because I kept overcomplicating the solution in my mind and ran into skill shortages, the bashers and platformers in particular. I thought War 39 - Hysteria would also be another roadblock, but I surprisingly solved it in about 1.5 - 2 hours.

Regarding resolved levels:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Now for the second half of the War rank

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Quote
- 3 32 (+1 save req) Did not remember why I gave an extra loss here.

Ah yes, I meant to mention this, but I forgot. Also, it's not 3 32, it's 3 39.

Quote
Tension 41 - The Igniting Spark the history of the looong timer:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Then I consider myself having failed the level under the original 10 minute timer. I might go back to this level sometime and see if I can beat it as you originally intended under the old timer, but right now I cannot see any way to improve the completion time considerably.

Quote
It amazes me how much the introduction pack already helps the player going through hard levels! Through all the intances I've read, here in this topic ALONE, contributing the knowledge of certain tricks and behaviors to the intro pack, I see that this is indeed the thing NL needed the most. It's not the new features, it's simply this - an easy way to get into the deeper mechanics of Lemmings (that is actually maintained).
It's still not done, but it will get there.

That's why I will gladly refer players to your Tutorial pack, as it has helped me tremendously, as seen by the many times I have made references to this pack in my feedback to your United pack. That reminds me. I have feedback for your Tutorial pack that I need to give you. I first completed the pack back in January, and then I recently finished the new version of the pack that was released two months ago, once I was held back by Tension 17, and many of the tricks I remembered from the Tutorial pack have definitely came in handy to help me with your United pack, especially with the War rank! :) Some time ago, I've referred one such forum member to the Tutorial pack who is currently playing through Sublems.

Despite the really hard levels, I'm definitely enjoying your pack a lot, Icho! :) Far better than Reunion. Truthfully, I've been nervous about United being too difficult even for someone like me, but as I have beaten hard packs like Reunion and Pimolems on Lemmini and so many other packs that not many people will finish entirely, this should definitely be a big sign that United shouldn't be a problem for me. Indeed, except for Neutrality 41, Tension 17, Tension 28, and Tension 34, it hasn't been too bad in stumping me very badly. Nevertheless, I can definitely see how not many people will be able to complete United to the very end or be able to get very far like me.

Onward to the Genocide rank! I'm already really nervous about starting this rank, considering that the Nightmare rank from Reunion managed to give me problems. 1 main rank and 1 bonus rank left! I can do this!

Edit: Yup, my suspicions were correct when the very first Genocide level has already managed to stump me. :crylaugh: Few hours of playing earlier tonight and still no solve. The best I've managed so far is 1 less than the save requirement, so I'm really close, but not quite there. I will try again later today. As usual, no hints yet!
« Last Edit: July 10, 2020, 05:22:27 AM by kaywhyn »
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline ericderkovits

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings United [Difficulty: Hard-Extreme]
« Reply #206 on: July 08, 2020, 08:45:56 AM »
hey kaywhyn I have all the replays so far downloaded except for neutrality 40. I cant find it anywhere in this board. This pack for me is way to hard but I like watching them. so far any corrected ones up to v11.0 now work. I'm just missing that one.  also all the replays I just finished watching for reunion all work. Now I'm going to watch the ones Ichotot solved for lemmings world tour.     
he has all the replays for that pack except only legend 39,40 and groupie 40 for the last 2 ranks in that pack. all the other ones are there.

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings United [Difficulty: Hard-Extreme]
« Reply #207 on: July 08, 2020, 02:19:58 PM »
V 11.1 is out!

Fixed backroutes thanks to kaywhyn's replays:

- 4 03 (extended the OWWs vertically)
- 4 11 (-1 builder, +1 platformer)
- 4 24 (added some terrain)
- 4 30 (added steel)
- 4 32 (added a fire trap)
- 4 38 (removed some terrain, -1 basher)

- 4 36 (changed the mushroom postion slightly so that it is less deceiving - physics should stay the same though)



War 11 is still not completely intended. But swapping out a builder should fix this.

War 21 I leave quite open-ended and there actually quite a few different solutions out there.

War 24 100% needs some fixing.

War 30 is just one very big backroute and I think you are the first one to heavily backroute this. ;P

War 32 rilals 30 for the spot of "biggest backroute" in this batch of replays. It completely misses the trick.

Your waiting in 35 is not intended, but let's say I allow it. There are much smoother ways though.

36 is a slight variation of the intended route but still totally acceptable. I am glad to see it finally not being backrouted. :D

You have a floater leftover in 38 because you missed the trick completely. ;)

Also, my respect on solving 39 so quickly and glad to see Genocide 1 doing work :evil:.

Again thanks for the replays and good luck! :thumbsup:

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings United [Difficulty: Hard-Extreme]
« Reply #208 on: July 08, 2020, 02:33:23 PM »
Wow, never knew I was capable of backrouting this many levels. Maybe that is to be expected, considering my puzzle solving caliber, as well as the amount of replays I send, which is I try to send half and half for a rank. 20/21 levels is a lot to look at at any given time. Apparently for the penultimate rank, the War rank still needs a lot of fixing. Bet you're pretty glad to be getting these replays, and I'm glad that I can help in this regard ;)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings United [Difficulty: Hard-Extreme]
« Reply #209 on: July 08, 2020, 05:54:28 PM »
Wow, never knew I was capable of backrouting this many levels. Maybe that is to be expected, considering my puzzle solving caliber, as well as the amount of replays I send, which is I try to send half and half for a rank. 20/21 levels is a lot to look at at any given time. Apparently for the penultimate rank, the War rank still needs a lot of fixing. Bet you're pretty glad to be getting these replays, and I'm glad that I can help in this regard ;)

The later ranks did not have many people solving them, so the backroute potential is definitly higher. Good hunting! :thumbsup:

And yes I am very glad to make them more backroute proof. The ammount of backroutes in your playthrough was a lot less than in the first ones. With each new player it gets better! So I am looking forward to more solutions! ;)