2 glitches discovered

[Leviathan (at school)]

I discovered 2,maybe new glitches:

1)I noticed a normal walker lemming that was trapped somewhere,to walk straigtly up trough the terrain above him.It's similar to a stuck climber climbing his way up trough terrain above him,but this time I actually saw a walker doing this after applying a certain order of skills at a certain shape of terrain...I haven't been able to reproduce it a second time tough,but I was baffled of what I saw.

2)I was testing a new designed level and I blow up a blocker somewhere,creating a pit.
Now you would think the other lemmings walk into the pit,but they didn't.Instead they turned around at the place where the blown up blocker was standing.
I noticed this several times near steel areas but this time there was no steel in the vicinity.
I built into "it" and the builder didn't turn,and the effect was suddenly gone.

I don't know if anyone else noticed these strange things,please tell me

[ccexplore]

Let's start with this question:  which version of the game are you using?

I'll comment below based on the assumption that you're talking about the DOS version.

1)I noticed a normal walker lemming that was trapped somewhere,to walk straigtly up trough the terrain above him.

I know of something similar, but it doesn't have the normal walker being trapped anywhere, and you need another lemming to help out in order to get it to work.

So I'm really unsure of what to make of your description.  Can you be more precise?

2)I was testing a new designed level and I blow up a blocker somewhere,creating a pit.
Now you would think the other lemmings walk into the pit,but they didn't.Instead they turned around at the place where the blown up blocker was standing.

This really defies my understanding of how the game works, especially the part about the effect suddenly gone when the builder built into "it".  I hate to say this but I'm highly skeptical of your second claim.  Do you have a specific, precise scenario that consistently reproduces your glitch?

[ccexplore]

on Today at 11:32am, Leviathan (at school) wrote:

2)I was testing a new designed level and I blow up a blocker somewhere,creating a pit.
Now you would think the other lemmings walk into the pit,but they didn't.Instead they turned around at the place where the blown up blocker was standing.

This really defies my understanding of how the game works, especially the part about the effect suddenly gone when the builder built into "it".

Actually, upon some thought, I can think of one scenario where indeed I can get a blocker's effect to linger after he's gone.  So I'm slightly less skeptical now.  However, the scenario requires somewhat more complicated setup than what you described, and more importantly, the lingering blocker's effect cannot be canceled by a builder.  So I'm still curious to hear about a precise scenario that consistently reproduces your version of the glitch.  Not to mention that I haven't even tested my scenario yet to see whether it actually works as intended.

[ccexplore]

I still haven't tested my version of the glitch yet, but I just realized that if it works, it actually has a potentially much more dramatic effect then merely having the blocker's "force field" lingering.

I doubt any of the Lemmings or ONML levels will benefit from this glitch (though I haven't checked yet), but it is certainly possible to create some rather CustLemm levels to make use of it.

[Leviathan]

Certainly the first glitch is something I haven't been able to reproduce,and I honestly don't know the exact conditions and the skills I used to get it...I was merely chaotically clicking with the builder icon and suddenly it happened.The lemming went up really fast,I can say as fast as a lemming falls down or even faster.

I can tell you more about the second glitch:

I put a blocker on top of terrain which is covering (working) lava.The blocker was holding off the crowd to go to the right and then I blew up the blocker.Instead of going into the pit,which had uncovered a bit of lava,the lemmings still turned around.
I built into "it" to see if it would reflect my builder,and it didn't.After a few bricks (2 or 3) the crowd headed into the lava pit.
As for the builder thing,I might have built over "it" instead of trough"it" but it certainly didn't look that way.
As I've noticed this before in the vicinity of steel areas,I have a little theory that the blocker's forcefield doesn't dissipate after blowing up,when it is in the range of an interactive object or steel area.


Both glitches were encountered when using CustLemm.

I'll try to reproduce these things and provide screenshots if I'm fast enough

[DragonsLover]

Something that I know, but I don't think it causes effects, is that when you blow up a blocker, just put your cursor above the place where it exploded: here is the "ghost" blocker.

[finlay]

How on earth can you get a blocker's effect to linger at all??

also: w00t 100 posts!!

[ccexplore]

Certainly the first glitch is something I haven't been able to reproduce,and I honestly don't know the exact conditions and the skills I used to get it...I was merely chaotically clicking with the builder icon and suddenly it happened.The lemming went up really fast,I can say as fast as a lemming falls down or even faster.

Well, if it's another lemming doing the building, I would probably believe you since it would be one of the glitches I (and another person) know about.

I can tell you more about the second glitch:

Um, thanks, but you didn't really tell me any more than what you already told me earlier.

I built into "it" to see if it would reflect my builder,and it didn't.After a few bricks (2 or 3) the crowd headed into the lava pit.
As for the builder thing,I might have built over "it" instead of trough"it" but it certainly didn't look that way.

Well, maybe a screenshot could determine this, but it does sound to me like you built over "it".

As I've noticed this before in the vicinity of steel areas,I have a little theory that the blocker's forcefield doesn't dissipate after blowing up,when it is in the range of an interactive object or steel area.

But that's just not the way the game works, unless CustLemm deviated from regular DOS Lemmings and ONML.  What I have in mind (which I still haven't tested) requires a somewhat different scenario than the simple one you described.  A screenshot (even in PM) would be warranted, especially a few of them detailing before and after the explosion.

One thing I could check and see is if the blocker's really near the top of the screen, or otherwise near the level boundaries.  But even then, I don't expect what you described to happen with your setup.

[ccexplore]

How on earth can you get a blocker's effect to linger at all??

Well, if you really really want to know very badly, I guess I could PM you about it if you made a request on this thru PM.  Although it's kinda a moot point until I've actually confirmed that what I have in mind works.

[ccexplore]

Although it's kinda a moot point until I've actually confirmed that what I have in mind works.

I have now confirmed that, at least on the SNES, what I have in mind works.

I could provide a screenshot, although even better, I actually saved a few SNES9x savestates of before and after.  I suppose those could be made available thru PM, although I might have to try again if I were to provide proof which doesn't at the same time reveal how it is done.

You'll have to wait until much later (8+ hours) when I head back home and try it on the PC and Mac versions.  I expect they would behave the same, but you never know.

Oh, and at least in my setup, the builder does not cancel the lingering blocker's field.  Another thing worth noting is that with my glitch, it has absolutely nothing to do with whether they are interactive objects in the vacinity.

I've also taken a look at the Lemmings and ONML levels and so far cannot found any that could benefit from the glitch, though maybe I just haven't been sufficiently creative yet. Still, generally you'd want to design the level specifically for it if you want to make use of the glitch.

[ccexplore]

I've also taken a look at the Lemmings and ONML levels and so far cannot found any that could benefit from the glitch, though maybe I just haven't been sufficiently creative yet.

Happily, I proved myself wrong again!  There is an ONML level that's practically perfect for this glitch, although it doesn't show off some of the crazier side of this glitch (that'll probably have to wait until I create a level for it).

Anyway, see this post on the Lemmings Challenge thread for details.

Obviously, this also means I've confirmed my glitch (note, my glitch, not Leviathan's) on the PC/DOS.  I'll try the Mac version soon.

Anyway, thanks to Leviathan for, in essence, pointing me towards the path to my glitch.  Hopefully maybe his own glitch would work too, how's the screenshot coming?

[ccexplore]

Obviously, this also means I've confirmed my glitch on the PC/DOS. &#A0;I'll try the Mac version soon.

As mentioned on the Lemmings Challenge thread, I've confirmed my new Wicked 7 solution on the Mac also, so the glitch indeed also works on the Mac.

[guest]

Might as well post this here...

If anyone wants to look for glitches I highly recommend the tame levels. Anyway, I found a crazy glitch. Now I will try to explain:
Two blockers are pretty close together with a lemming in between. At least one of the blockers has some terrain overlapping his field. Now the middle one bashes, and keeps bashing, and keeps bashing, and keeps bashing, and keeps bashing, and keeps bashing........
Could this be useful? (besides creating an evil level)

[ccexplore]

That's quite cute, but if I understand correctly, the basher is still trapped between the blockers at all times, correct?

So yes, very neat looking B), but seems to be of very limited use.

[guest]

The only way I can think of using it would be to have another lemming with the basher so the blockers could be released and the basher would keep going. Then it could be used to save/turn around/delay bashers.

[ccexplore]

Hmm, that could work.  Ultimately, what you need to be careful about is to make sure that there isn't a more straightforward way to accomplish what you want the glitch to accomplish.  I look forward to see you make a level out of your discovery.

[ccexplore]

As mentioned on the Lemmings Challenge thread, I've confirmed my new Wicked 7 solution on the Mac also, so the glitch indeed also works on the Mac.

Quick update:  glitch and Wicked 7 solution confirmed on the Amiga version also.  So there's now a version of the game you can try this on, that has savestates at your disposal (though it's not too bad even w/o savestates).

[ccexplore]

I figure to break up the monotony of me not sharing many of my glitches, here's a "new" glitch (well, new for you, old for me) which I will give a full disclosure.

Of course, this means the glitch is practically useless. But it's still fun to see it in action.

In this case, the reason it's so useless is, it turns out the glitch is incredibly specific to the version of lemmings you have.  And even when it works, the effect is more hilarious than useful.

Forget about the Mac and SNES versions etc., in fact, even amongst the DOS versions, it only works on the "original" DOS Lemmings (the one from abandonia.com works too).  Not only does it fail on ONML, but if you use the so-called "CD" DOS version where they corrected the music (so that when you restart a level it doesn't go back to the level 1 music), you won't get the glitch either.  I've also tried Holiday Lemmings '94 and the glitch doesn't work there either.  Feel free to check out the other versions as well.

Most importantly, it doesn't work in CustLemm and its derivatives that I made (CustLem2, Nocdlem, etc.), which truly seals its fate as a useless glitch.

So, the glitch:

When a non-climber builder finishes building and does its shrug, if you assign it a climber while it's shrugging, it will abort the shrug immediately and start walking.  Except it will be doing the shrugging animation while walking, until it is converted to some other action (ie. jumping, falling, or a skill you assign).

The only possible use is to gain that small fraction of time during which the lemming is shrugging (and therefore normally not moving forward).  Adding the restriction that it doesn't work in CustLemm, the usefulness of this glitch would be rather limited, except maybe for Timballisto.

However, it is quite funny to watch.  It's hard to maintain the glitch state because as soon as the walker falls a little (3 or more pixels) or jumps (a step of 3 or more pixels), it will revert back to the normal walker animation.  However, it turns out Fun 19 is the perfect place to see the glitch due to the terrain:  let lemming #1 build somewhere left of the cusp between rainbow arches #1 and #2 (counting from left to right).  If you build at the right place, it's possible to build a full bridge without turning around, and have the bridge touches the raising slope of arch #2.  You might also want to make lemming #2 block to divert the crowd away from the builder.

Now apply the glitch by assigning the climber when the builder finishes and starts shrugging.  Watch as he glides along the long rainbow pathway shrugging over and over!

[geoo]

lol, watching this was surely worth downloading the abandonia version. It looks so funny.

[...]Anyway, I found a crazy glitch. Now I will try to explain:
Two blockers are pretty close together with a lemming in between. At least one of the blockers has some terrain overlapping his field. Now the middle one bashes, and keeps bashing, and keeps bashing, and keeps bashing, and keeps bashing, and keeps bashing........
Could this be useful? (besides creating an evil level)

When I had found out that blockers also turn bashers around I thought guest's trick might be possible, but I couldn't get it to work because I didn't know that one blocker needs to be partly in front of terrain. However, I'd like to make a level using this.

For ccexplore's new glitch I wanted to ask for a screenshot at first, but the new challenge gave a good hint.
I wasn't able to do the challenge yet, but I confirmed the glitch. Neat glitch!

[JM]

blockers also turn miners around. There's a few levels that you have to do that in. Pretty cool.

[LemSteven]

blockers also turn miners around. There's a few levels that you have to do that in. Pretty cool.

I once drew out a level on paper in which you had to get down to the bottom of a wall using just one miner.  The solution, of course, was to keep turning the miner with blockers.  I don't know of any levels in the actual games that require that trick.  I wouldn't call it a glitch, though, because the two skills interact just the way you'd expect them to.

I also noticed ccexplore's builder glitch in the original Lemmings a while ago.  On Mayhem 8, my last builder on the first bridge ran out of bricks right as he hit the wall.  I made him climb up the wall, and he slid over to the wall in in the shrugging position before climbing.  I never thought much about it until now.

I also knew about Guest's basher glitch, but like ccexplore, I can't find any place where it is useful.  When a basher hits a blocker and turns around, he bashes air.  I can conceivably see the trick used in a fan-made level.  Somebody could make a level in which you have to bash a short distance, build behind the basher, and bash through the bridge, using only one basher.  Such a level would be very tough to design, though.

[geoo]

[...]
I also knew about Guest's basher glitch, but like ccexplore, I can't find any place where it is useful.  When a basher hits a blocker and turns around, he bashes air.  I can conceivably see the trick used in a fan-made level.  Somebody could make a level in which you have to bash a short distance, build behind the basher, and bash through the bridge, using only one basher.  Such a level would be very tough to design, though.

Well, I'm currently designing one.
But I wonder whether I should release it after I get it ready or wait until I get the other 9 levels ready.
I actually prefer the second, since otherwise you'd easily know that you have to use this trick.

[ccexplore]

I don't mind waiting.  Besides, most people still haven't finished your first pack yet.  Actually come to think of it, I still have level 7 of your first pack waiting for completion.

[guest]

I thought about making a level using it but decided not to. I already have a very-annoying-level-that-uses-a-glitch in my pack.

[DragonsLover]

I once drew out a level on paper in which you had to get down to the bottom of a wall using just one miner. &#A0;The solution, of course, was to keep turning the miner with blockers. &#A0;I don't know of any levels in the actual games that require that trick. &#A0;I wouldn't call it a glitch, though, because the two skills interact just the way you'd expect them to.

One of my levels use this trick! You have 4 lemmings, 3 of them are blockers and the last one is the miner that goes down in zigzag to the exit.

[Leviathan]

I have tried reproducing both glitches and am still failing

The blocker glitch seems to work very rarely for me,I've only managed to pull it of once intentionally,but I was running lemmings in plain DOS so I couldn't take a screenshot...

The second glitch (the walker walking strait up trough the terrain glitch) is even more dramatic as I don't have a clue on how to do it except it's with a builder when a lemming is trapped somewhere.

[ccexplore]

I'm apt to believe that you did witness something, just that you don't remember what exactly happened accurately and precisely enough to reproduce what you saw.

For both glitches, I can think of glitches I know that fits your description to some extent (although not fully), so maybe your glitches are same as the ones I know.

[Leviathan]

Could you PM me about more details of your glitches?
I might confirm it are exactly the same glitches

[ccexplore]

I'm not sure I should.  Especially for my version of the glitch involving the rapid-rising trapped lemming, there exist other people who have discovered the same glitches entirely on their own and figured out exactly how to trigger it, without having hints from other people.

However, it is evident that without your glitch entertaining the possibility of "lingering" blockers, I probably would have overlooked my Wicked 7 glitch for a long time.  So I guess it's only fair that I tell you about that particular glitch.  See PM.

[Leviathan]

I was wondering another thing...is it possible to save a lemming while he's drowning?
I've seen that when a lem is drowning,he's still counted as a walker untill the moment he disapears.

Now what happens if you put an exit in the water with the trigger area right in the middle where a lem would drown?
I've tried this but it doesn't work so far,hence my question if it's possible.

[Mindless]

I was wondering another thing...is it possible to save a lemming while he's drowning?
I've seen that when a lem is drowning,he's still counted as a walker untill the moment he disapears.

Now what happens if you put an exit in the water with the trigger area right in the middle where a lem would drown?
I've tried this but it doesn't work so far,hence my question if it's possible.

I doubt it'll work.  One way to confirm that it won't work is to see if the number of Lemmings OUT is reduced when the Lemming hits the water.

[finlay]

You can save Lemmings if they splat right on top of the exit, though. I've seen that.

[ccexplore]

I doubt it'll work. &#A0;One way to confirm that it won't work is to see if the number of Lemmings OUT is reduced when the Lemming hits the water.

It isn't.  As Leviathan stated already, the Lemming is not removed from the game until it totally disappears.  The OUT is not decremented while the drowning animation is in progress.

That of course doesn't say anything about whether the Lemming can exit while drowning.  You can always try putting all manners of exits and other triggerable objects all over the water so that very little water is actually left past the point where the Lemming made contact with the water.  If nothing happens then the answer is probably no.

[ccexplore]

One way to confirm that it won't work is to see if the number of Lemmings OUT is reduced when the Lemming hits the water.

In fact, let me extend this by pointing out that the number OUT is never decremented until the Lemming is removed (ie. disappears, particularly from the mini-map at the bottom right) from the game.  The only cases where this happens immediately, as far as I can remember, are:

1) falling off bottom of level
2) hits a non-constant trap (ie. those traps where other lemmings can past by harmlessly while the trap is already operating on a victim)

Regarding case #2, note that the lemming you see in the trap animation is actually part of the trap animation.  The "real" lemming is removed the very instant the trap is triggered.

Exploders are also interesting because, despite the fact that the lemming turns into a puff of confetti immediately at the moment of explosion, the game doesn't remove the lemming (doesn't decrement OUT) until the explosion is over.

[LemSteven]

Exploders are also interesting because, despite the fact that the lemming turns into a puff of confetti immediately at the moment of explosion, the game doesn't remove the lemming (doesn't decrement OUT) until the explosion is over.

I noticed another glitch with the exploder (or bomber, whichever you prefer).  If a bomber goes off at the moment he goes into the exit, he'll go into the exit, then you'll hear the "oh no" sound effect.  Suddenly, he reappears and goes into the exit again.  I think it only counts as 1 lemming, though.

I don't think this glitch can be used to improve the score on any levels, though.  It seems to be useless, other than for its visual effects.

You can make this happen on any level, but I suggest trying it out on Wild 9 in ONML.  This glitch occured a lot while I was testing out the no-skill solution to that level.

[ccexplore]

Yeah I've seen this too every so often.  I think it's because the explosion timer countdown is still active while you are exiting.  So when the countdown reaches 0, the game transitions the lemming into an "oh-no-er", which interrupts the ongoing exiting animation.  Then the game does the interactive object check and (re)discovers the exit, so the "oh-no-er" transitions back to the exiting animation again.

Notice that this results in the exiting animation starting twice, but it still only completes once (since it was interrupted the first time).  So you can't gain an extra lemming saved by this, because the IN counter is not updated until the exiting animation is fully completed, at which point the game will immediately remove the lemming (and therefore it's not available for further transitioning into any other form that might end up exiting a second time).

[geoo]

I just discovered a new, IMO quite interesting glitch. I suppose not even ccexplore knows it for now.
Actually this glitch is based on another glitch known by at least one person apart from me (I think you know who's meant )
Experimenting with this glitch, I got a follow-up of ideas (I actually didn't expected to work) and finally ended up with that new glitch, the main move is still the same.
This discovery gave me some new knownledge of the game mechanics, at least my thoughts are not contradictionary to all the things I noticed before.
I'll make a level using this glitch, actually I'm going to release it with my second pack, but since it will take some time until the release, I'm going to give it away already now on request.
Expect it to be ready in a few days, maybe already tomorrow.

[ccexplore]

I just discovered a new, IMO quite interesting glitch. I suppose not even ccexplore knows it for now.

Well now, if you put it that way, then I have no choice but to an advance private release of the level to me.

It is quite likely for there to be tons of glitches out there that I don't know about, since a "glitch" in one sense always involves some combination of moves, and I could hardly pretend to have considered the myriad of all possible combinations.

However, I'm willing to bet that whatever the manifestation is, I probably already know the principles behind the glitch.  Or maybe not, we'll see.

[geoo]

Well now, if you put it that way, then I have no choice but to an advance private release of the level to me.

Well, somehow I was going to cause this reaction with the way I was writing my reply.

It is quite likely for there to be tons of glitches out there that I don't know about, since a "glitch" in one sense always involves some combination of moves, and I could hardly pretend to have considered the myriad of all possible combinations.

However, I'm willing to bet that whatever the manifestation is, I probably already know the principles behind the glitch.  Or maybe not, we'll see.

Due to your knownledge of the game mechanics, I think you do. However, this glitch does not only...well...I don't want to give away too much...see the level when it is ready. I already have a plan for it in mind.

[geoo]

Ok, the level is ready now. PM sent to ccexplore.

[ccexplore]

I haven't bothered with actually solving the level, but do take a look at your PM.

[geoo]

Ok then, nothing new for you. Check PM for more detailled reply.

[ccexplore]

Yes, I'm afraid nothing new, but it'll be sure to leave everyone else's heads scratching when you release your second set!

[geoo]

We'll see.

You got a PM.