Really stuck now (Genesis Version)

[Deathman48]

Ok, I've now come to an absolute halt on the Genesis version of Lemmings. I must have less than 20 levels left (and I know I can do some of the later ones) but in terms of doing it properly and not skipping levels, I really am stuck now.

Present Level 29 - Private Room Available

The 40 diggers seem to suggest that you need to dig a lot. The only way Lemmings can survive the drop is if they dig on one of the threads dangling off the boxes. If they don't, then they die from the fall. But even grouping up Lemmings I can't see how to get it to work because the thread hanging off is so thin that some Lemmings will fall further and die when the digger breaks through the floor.

Present Level 30 - Final Impediment

I'm not there yet, but omgwtf! I think this is a case of a Hero Lemming where you contain the rest and let one Lemming do the work. I can contain everyone and have one Lemming go off on his own, but the flames bursting out of each side of the center of the map really put a damper on any plan I can come up with. Skills seem to be a bit short for building up to the height of the exit unless I'm using too many to contain the Lemmings over on the right.

Edit - Scratch that last one for anyone who saw it, I saw how to modify my solution for Sunsoft 12 and I've now passed it.

[Conway]

Hint: For Private Room Available, do what you were saying wouldn't work, but the complete opposite. Notice the number of lemmings you have?

[Deathman48]

Yeah, 20 Lemmings and 40 diggers. But the "obvious" way means that I need to dig once to get them down to the lower level, meaning 2x digging for each Lemming falls one short. Is this level just a case of annoying pixel precise digging? >_<

[ccexplore]

No, it isn't precision, and it isn't grouping.  It's been a while since I solved the level, but if my memory isn't faulty or confused different levels, here's a hint:

Although most lemmings do what is obvious, some do other things.

[Deathman48]

Due to simple counting problems, it turns out there aren't enough cells for all the Lemmings. I thought digging down the column on the right would help, get that Lemming to make the trail the rest would follow but I needed a basher to stop him digging all the way through. I end up with 2 Lemmings in one cell which means that one will die when I remove the floor they're on with a digger.

I can't see how your hint helps.  I only have 2 bashers, one builder and one bomber to play with. You need to save 100% so the bomber is automatically useless. You need the builder to bridge the gap and a basher to bash through the diamond blocking your path. You also need a basher to get the Lemmings underneath and through the steel wall, which means I can't use one to stop my digger on the column. That only leaves me a couple of diggers to play around with and I can't see anything else to do given the terrain I have. =/

[Conway]

Hint: Look closely at the bottom of the column to the right.

[Deathman48]

Hmm... I didn't notice that down there. But then if I use that Lemming to bash across and make the bridge over the gap on the left, that increases the distance the Lemmings have to fall and it will kill them all. But if I let all the Lemmings drop through first, some of them will reach the bridge before it's complete and fall off the edge and off the map.

Also, I end up with 2 Lemmings in the same compartment (as with the digger on the column I have 19 Lemmings and only 18 compartments) which means that one will always die when I start to dig through the floor. =/

Edit - Hold that thought, I've seen something which I think should work. Trying it out now.

Edit 2 - Done it. Used a digger on the left before the electrocuting thing to get a Lemming to build a bridge first. Thanks guys. ^^ Some help with Level 30 would be appreciated as I have even less idea what to do there. >_<

[Proxima]

30's the one Genesis level I've not done yet, though I admit I haven't even looked at it since I returned from my holiday.

[Conway]

Final Impediment is fairly straight forward compared to Private Room Available. The fire is just there to scare you, to make the level look intimidating. You shouldn't need to go near the fire at all. It's just a matter of getting one lemming to make a route for the rest.

[Deathman48]

Contrary to the title, I genuinely really am stuck.

I am A.T - Sunsoft Level 29

I think someone did a custom level based off this. The 40 diggers are clearly important for something, but I'll be damned if I can figure out what. You can't simply build over the gap because it's too big. You can afford to lose 20 Lemmings, or not have 20 Lemmings reach the exit but I've tried this level many, many times and can't work out what to do. =(

I know I can do the final level, which is Fall and No Life (Part 2) but I am A.T and Final Impediment I can't and I'm so close to finally beating this game too..

[Conway]

Ooooh, are you sure you want a hint? It's very satisfying to finally figure it out by yourself!

[Deathman48]

Oops, didn't see your previous post. If I could get up to the block on the far left then I could build back up to the exit, but I can't seem to get it to work. When building from the first block left to the second, I can't seem to start the bridge far enough over to stop the Lemmings from climbing up and falling off the edge instead of making the bridge low enough so they just turn around off the wall.

As for I am A.T. Over the last few days I've satisfied myself enormously by beating at least 6 levels that I'd previously never been able to do before even after many attempts, but this one I just don't know what to do.

[Isu]

I think someone did a custom level based off this.

Someone?!? I think it's best to say who hasn't done one, I can think of at least five users on this forum alone who have remade it in some way or another. I've also remade the other one you're stuck on, and I'm the only one (as far as I know) to remake Present 29 (or SUNSOFT 3 if you're on the SNES).

EDIT: Thats five users, not six. Praetor doesn't visit this forum.

[Proxima]

Who are the six? I can think of Conway, you, Special_Gunpowder and me, although my level using that device (Zorn's Lemming) hasn't been released yet so you might not even be including me in the six....

[geoo]

Insane Steve made one for Cheapo (I.S. 03: Chaotic - I am I.S.).
Still one missing.

[Isu]

apart from the four you mentioned, Insane Steve and Praetor, although Praetor doesn't visit this forum, so I suppose I should change it to five.

EDIT: Geoo89? where did you come from?
Btw, I've changed it to five, sorry for the confusion.

[Deathman48]

Someone?!? I think it's best to say who hasn't done one

Alright then, I'll rephrase it. I have seen at least one person do a custom level based on this level. That better? You're forgetting I don't spend as much time here as you people nor have I been a member as long. I've only seen a few levels from the Custom Level List game and I recalled seeing one there. I've also not played anyone's custom levels so I can't determine necessarily from looking at the picture what tricks need to be used in what locations.

So if you would kindly cut me some slack for not being a Lemmings expert, as well as someone actually giving me a hand if so many people have done a level based on this one, I would appreciate it.

[Proxima]

....you know, I really don't think Isu meant that in a nasty or aggressive way.

Anyway, you want some hints. There are really just three tricks to this level -- one big one and two smaller ones. I really don't want to tell you the big one, because it will spoil your pleasure in solving this level; but it does use those diggers, nearly all of them. You have to think of how the lemmings on the left side can get up to the top of the wall, since you don't have enough builders to build them there.

For the second trick, I'll just say that it will make things easier if you don't start doing the actual work of the level immediately -- let the first twenty lemmings from the right trapdoor walk straight to the exit.

[Deathman48]

Neither was my comment, stuff I say just comes off cold sometimes, anyone who's known me for a while will tell you that. =P

Yeah, I did kind of think that some of the Lemmings on the right needed to get to the exit. I thought maybe some wall of diggers that would create a gradual slope that the Lemmings could walk up might work, I haven't been able to execute that yet though so I don't know if that's what works. Blah, I'm sure it will hit me eventually what the main trick is. >_< And with only 2 minutes I'm sure the release rate has to be put way up immediately.

[Proxima]

And with only 2 minutes I'm sure the release rate has to be put way up immediately.

Yah, I forgot about that. You're right. I think around 80 is what you want.

[Deathman48]

Am I right in saying that you want to basically dig most of the terrain away? If that's the case I'm sure that the builder must be used for getting over the gap above the shredders and/or the bomber must be used to stop one of the diggers from going down too far.

[Proxima]

Well, not quite. There's still that little bit of metal at the end; so at some point you definitely need to get the lemmings to go up.

The bomber isn't used at all.

[Conway]

The builder can be used, but it's not necessary. Oh, and some of the diggers at the end can't be saved.

 There. Now I think I've completely spoiled it!

[Deathman48]

No, you didn't spoil it. From the tools given it didn't look like you'd be able to save everyone and with only one builder which needs to be used to get up over the steel I think some of them will fall into the shredder trap, or just be wandering around aimlessly by the time 2 minutes is up. And if it's possible without the builder then my guess at having a gradual slope by getting the Lemmings up top to dig in sequence from left to right must be along the right track.

Edit - Yeah, I've got the solution. Haven't been able to execute it yet but I know it works. Now for Final Impediment.. when I'm building from the first steel box to the one to the left of it, no matter how far left I start my bridge, it always goes one step too high and the rest of the Lemmings will just walk right off the edge. Is this where the Bashers come in to slightly extend the first bridge laterally so that it doesn't go too high?

Edit 2 - Never mind all of that. I got 80 Lemmings home in I am A.T and just now I beat Final Impediment. I got over (no pun intended) the problem of Lemmings scaling the wall by digging while building my bridge, that was enough to lower it to make the gap too high. Thanks to ccexplore, guest, the guys in this thread and everyone else who helped me out on a few levels when I got stuck. ^____^

[guest]

I see a solution for I am A.T. that would save 100%. The only problem is that it would be VERY hard to execute.

[Deathman48]

Jeez. =/ I can't even fathom how that would be possible, would you mind posting that up? In that weird unreadable font if you don't want to give anything away.

[Conway]

Deathman, please could you post a screenshot of your solution to level 30? I don't think that's how I solved it.

 Well done with the last two levels!

 And Guest, I too am very curious as to a 100% solution to I am A.T. Does it involve a glitch?

[Deathman48]

Argh, you want me to relive the horrors of that level again? :# Lucky I had a saved state right at the crucial part. =P And thanks for the congrats, I finally beat the game so I'm pretty happy. ^^



If you see where I circled, that's where I used a digger to dig down and then I carried on building so that on the left the gap was too high for any Lemmings to climb over. Over on the far right (out of the screen) I had the trailblazer Lemming build to cover the gap. I then mine under the blocker to release everyone and because of the bridge they fall onto, none of them die. My trailblazer carries on building up to the exit and the rest of the Lemmings follow on the path. Hope that's what you wanted. ^^

Oh yeah, and I know that where I circled there's a gap in the bridge where the Lemmings will fall through, I dug down one pixel too far for this example, but I didn't do that when I actually beat the level, there were no gaps then, but you can see what I did from the screenshot anyway.

[Conway]

I didn't do the zig-zag, I just build straight up so the lemming came nearly under the block to the left, then when he turned back, built to the one under the group to save time, and have him build a few individual steps to connect with the stuff at the bottom of the block.

 http://uk.geocities.com/benjconway79/pictures/final.png

 In this screenshot, the releasing of the blocker is a bit messy, and I'm way behind schedule, but the building is about right.

[Deathman48]

Interesting.

Actually, originally I was wasting builders on the right trying to contain the crowd, I didn't look at the blocker because I needed 100% and the blocker didn't enable that in my newbie mindset, I forgot about the miner to release it. XD I did try your method of one large bridge but I couldn't get the bridge to actually hit the block and at the time I didn't have enough builders after the ones I'd wasted. By the time I realised you could use the blocker to hold the crowd, I was dead set on getting my zig-zag pattern to work because I knew it had to somehow. My solution went through many revisions before I actually arrived at it. ^^;

My solution uses less builders though. =P

[guest]

Lucky I had a saved state right at the crucial part. =P

You saved a state!? How!?

Here's my idea for I am A.T.
The first lemming (right entrance) digs down 7 pixels. The next one digs one pixel to the left of where the other lemming started. The other digger will be released. Keep going down and to the left until you hit steel, make sure the lemmings can get up. Make a lemming build by the 7 pixel hole.

[ccexplore]

Wow, you use an emulator and doesn't even know how to make savestates? :: That's sad.

It depends on the emulator.  The best suggestion would be to simply look at the emulator window's menu bar.  Regardless of which emulator and whether it's SNES or Genesis, you are almost guaranteed to find something in one of the drop-down menus that relates to savestates, along with the shortcut keys for it.

And if you can't find it, I suggest you get another emulator.

[Deathman48]

Without Save States I wouldn't have been able to do some of these levels without tearing my hair out. >_<

The first lemming (right entrance) digs down 7 pixels. The next one digs one pixel to the left of where the other lemming started. The other digger will be released. Keep going down and to the left until you hit steel, make sure the lemmings can get up. Make a lemming build by the 7 pixel hole.

If you'd posted that about 2 hours earlier I'd have known how to do We All Fall Down with 2/3 diggers. =P

That's quite ingenious, but I see your point about how difficult it would be. You would definitely need save states unless you are a god at timing and can get every Lemming to dig at the exact spots you need them every single time. And based on how many Lemmings you would need to use to get down to the ground, that's a hell of a lot of accuracy. I might give it a try at some point though.

[Conway]

I don't quite follow that solution. Where is the digging done? Could you post a preliminary screenshot?

[geoo]

The way I solved Final Impediment (when I played the level the first time I found it out immediately and though it was the intended way) is completely different to your solutions:
First one floater, build over the gap at the right, built to get to the little island at the bottom-left. Mining & building to turn around, building up to the start platform while releasing the blocker using a digger and one or more bashers, digging down with the released blocker to save him. First lemming bashes into start platform and build to turn around. Building up to the block at the left and to the exit.
I wasted a couple of bashers at this try, as you can see:
http://de.geocities.com/geoo89/Present30_a.PNG

http://de.geocities.com/geoo89/Present30_b.PNG

Also, the 100% solution for I'm A.T. wasn't as hard as I expected (last screenshot is a bit dark since the screen was already fading out):
http://de.geocities.com/geoo89/Sunsoft29_a.PNG

http://de.geocities.com/geoo89/Sunsoft29_b.PNG

[Deathman48]

Or alternately, forget everything I just said and look at the post above me to see how it should be done. I must admit that's very impressive, I guess I've just not had enough practise at the method.

Oh and my solution to Final Impediment uses less builders, so there. =P

[Conway]

How is one digger able to stop another? I thought a digger only needed one pixel of terrain under him to keep digging.

[Deathman48]

According to what ccexplore told me, that is only true for the PC version and that's why the 2/3 digger solution for We All Fall Down on the PC fails, on the Genesis and others it's possible to stop diggers by removing most of the terrain from underneath them with another digger.

[guest]

geoo89's 100% solution was a little different....but probably easier. I figured out how to save states. I thought that they would be part of the game, because ccexplore said that there weren't any in the DOS version.

[DarkSonic]

I am a new member here. But I just need to bump this topic because this could be a helpful post =P

Here is a very simple way to beat Final Impediment. I've made a screenshot and uploaded it to my site(very bad site, and it goes about another old game. It's called Jazz Jackrabbit 2) but you will find a screenshot with how I did Final Impediment. I could do it simplier, but this is good enough
Here a short explanation :
First Lemming starts building from the right side of the platform, till he builds against the wall(he won't get hit by the fire) when he walks down you should start building to the left when he is at the 12th brick he built. Then, after doing that, try to mine the blocker free but if that is unsafe, try to build over the blocker. Then let the last Lemming build to the left so he walks to the right. Let him mine the blocker free. You need to time well! And you have to change the miner into a builder. If done correctly, you will have the same as my screenshot, found here :
http://www.freewebs.com/darksonicjj2/morescreenshots.htm

As for I am A.T. : I've completed it once but I had alot of bad luck already. It's hard to get that 80%. I have had 77 and 78 percent, but I completed it once with 80%.
Hopefully this post is helpful.

[JM]

Cool site dude!