Author Topic: Miniatures (10 small levels)  (Read 1731 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Simon

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 2595
    • View Profile
    • Lix
Miniatures (10 small levels)
« on: September 30, 2017, 01:47:59 am »
Hi!



Find attached 10 miniatures built by geoo and me.

I call a level a miniature iff it satisfies all of these constraints:
  • Width is at most 320, which is half the default level width.
  • Height is at most 200, which is half the default level height.
  • Number of lix is at most 9.
  • Total number of skills is at most 9.
The width/height restrictions are inspired by Gronkling's small maps. Gronkling explained how the small levels would happen naturally for him. I was envious and decided to build a couple small maps, too!

geoo and I made these several months ago. Originally, I've wanted to hoard them until I had a proper pack. But I haven't worked on small levels recently, therefore I'll release them without pack polish.

All levels are proven solvable under 0.9.x physics.

-- Simon
« Last Edit: January 21, 2019, 07:28:59 am by Simon »

Offline Nepster

  • Moderator
  • Posts: 1791
    • View Profile
Re: Miniatures (10 small levels)
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2017, 05:55:04 pm »
Attached solutions to all of Simon's levels and three of geoo's levels. For the other two I have ideas, but I miss the variable SI to time my lix correctly.

Offline Simon

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 2595
    • View Profile
    • Lix
Re: Miniatures (10 small levels)
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2017, 06:14:13 pm »
Thanks for playing!

Feedback for Nepster (click to show/hide)

-- Simon
« Last Edit: September 30, 2017, 09:13:33 pm by Simon »

Offline Forestidia86

  • Posts: 495
    • View Profile
Re: Miniatures (10 small levels)
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2017, 11:09:14 pm »
I really like the idea of miniature levels. I think they fit my playstyle best. I can deal better with one compact puzzle than having to go through a long level. And there are less possible combinations what to do so that I can even solve those things on my skilllevel. Insofar it's really cool that you made those levels.
I have attached solutions to all ten (played on v. 0.8.4).

Concerning the single levels:

Simon's levels:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

geoo's Levels:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline Simon

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 2595
    • View Profile
    • Lix
Re: Miniatures (10 small levels)
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2017, 11:06:58 am »
Thanks for playing, and welcome to the forums, Forestidia! I'm super happy that you joined because of these levels -- I didn't imagine they would make such an impact on anyone.

I wholeheartedly agree that the forced simplicity is refreshing; we'll still have large levels, too. Surprisingly, even among these small levels, some became harder than intended. I thought that happens only with large levels because designers underestimate distractions by side ideas and decoration.

Feedback for Forestidia86 (click to show/hide)

-- Simon

Offline geoo

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 1321
    • View Profile
Re: Miniatures (10 small levels)
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2017, 09:20:36 pm »
Hey, welcome to the forum and thanks a lot for playing our levels and the commentary.
Good work on solving the levels, I think some of them, in particular 'Rock on the Block', are quite tricky.


I'm going to comment on your solutions to my levels.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline Forestidia86

  • Posts: 495
    • View Profile
Re: Miniatures (10 small levels)
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2017, 10:12:45 pm »
Thanks for the feedback on my solutions. I have solved your 3 alternative/new versions, geoo, and attached the solutions.

Edit: I forgot but I noticed that the alternative "Solitary Confinement" level has only save one but I guess one should save all three (, which I have done in my replay). My solution is actually kind of the inverse of what I tried the whole time before I got to the alternate one.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2017, 11:29:03 pm by Forestidia86 »

Offline geoo

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 1321
    • View Profile
Re: Miniatures (10 small levels)
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2017, 08:09:38 pm »
Cool, you found the intended solutions to Solitary and Cubicle now :)
I attached a fix for Solitary (changing the requirement to 3/3, thanks for the remark) and also a minor change to Frog Fractions.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline Forestidia86

  • Posts: 495
    • View Profile
Re: Miniatures (10 small levels)
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2017, 08:53:29 pm »
Have solved the new "Frog Fractions" and attached. Note: I renamed your level file to "frogfractions_alt2".

Some remarks on the three redone levels:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Edit just for clarification: With "attached" I mean of course "attached the solution". (I hope nobody got that wrong. I'm very insecure about such things).
« Last Edit: October 06, 2017, 08:13:13 am by Forestidia86 »

Offline mobius

  • Posts: 2286
  • inactive; PM with questions
    • View Profile
Re: Miniatures (10 small levels)
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2017, 01:11:45 am »
I streamed these levels (starts around 43:00)

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/187415227

I solved one or two from each I think. They had pretty neat or clever solutions. With good stinking discussion. :laugh:
"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man"
-the Dude



soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/a-tax-980147606/raindrops
deviant art: http://rhubarb338.deviantart.com/

Offline Nessy

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 435
    • View Profile
Re: Miniatures (10 small levels)
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2017, 01:31:12 am »
Hi,

I solved these levels a while ago but forgot to post my replies :\

Thanks mobius for reminding me.

All level replays are attached below.

Offline Simon

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 2595
    • View Profile
    • Lix
Re: Miniatures (10 small levels)
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2017, 04:07:14 pm »
Hi, I solved these levels a while ago
replays are attached below.

Thanks for playing!

About Nessy's solutions (click to show/hide)

Quote from: mobius
I streamed these levels (starts around 43:00)

I skimmed through the video. Solitary Confinement was solved very complicatedly, but nonetheless a cool solution. You didn't stick with any level for long, but what you did solve, it looked very much intended or acceptable.

-- Simon

Offline Simon

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 2595
    • View Profile
    • Lix
Re: Miniatures (10 small levels)
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2019, 01:59:21 pm »
I'm considering to include these levels in the Lix main download.

geoo, are you okay with including your levels in the Lix main download under CC0 (same as all existing levels in the Lix main download)?

For the directory structure, it's getting tricky. You designed 5 miniatures in 2017. I've released 5 miniatures here in 2017 and have designed 3 more in 2018. And then I have designed 4 standalone levels in 2018 that aren't miniatures, but should be released nonetheless. My so-far-unreleased 3+4 levels are attached to this post, in case it helps the discussion, and also as a cultural backup.

I feel like everything should go into some subdirectory structure in levels/single/misc/. But the exact directory structure, should it separate by release (thus separate the 10 miniatures from this thread from the 3 new miniatures), by author (thus split the 10 minis from this thread apart), or by miniature status (thus make a completely separate dir in misc/ for my other 4 levels)?

-- Simon

Offline geoo

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 1321
    • View Profile
Re: Miniatures (10 small levels)
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2019, 05:40:14 am »
For me it's similar, in addition to the miniatures I also have a tiny amount of levels sitting around that I haven't released yet.

The miniatures were released as an entity an make a coherent small pack of levels. So I'd propose to have them in levels/single/mics/miniatures, and any future miniatures that fit the spirit as well, and we just decide on an ordering of the levels (without author-specific subfolders). Kinda similar to your and Forestidia's Xmas pack.
We'd then release our non-miniature levels in author-specific folders within misc.

Offline Simon

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 2595
    • View Profile
    • Lix
Re: Miniatures (10 small levels)
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2019, 07:59:20 pm »
I like your proposal with 3 directories: all miniatures, all non-miniatures by geoo, all non-miniatures by Simon. The miniatures have strong coherence indeed.

I won't work on this collection immediately. If I need replays or can't find levels, I'll come back to you.

-- Simon

Offline Simon

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 2595
    • View Profile
    • Lix
Re: Miniatures (10 small levels)
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2019, 06:04:37 am »
The miniatures and my extra levels are now in the master branch of my unstable repository. I've used the most recent version of everything geoo has posted here. Proposed ordering of the miniatures.

Everything is covered -- either by myself, or by Forestidia's posted replays for In the Cubicle and Rock on the Block, these were judged (near-)intended by geoo.

geoo, would you like to include your unreleased levels in the next release, too? Post them or PM them.

-- Simon

Offline geoo

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 1321
    • View Profile
Re: Miniatures (10 small levels)
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2019, 05:09:02 pm »
I'd have to clean up and organize my levels first, I'll leave that for some other time.
I just turned some of the simpler levels into miniatures though, see attached. This is nice as it bumps up the pack, and also should help me keep my future pack more coherent.

Here's a proposed ordering of the levels (didn't give it too much thought, though I tried to make our levels alternate a bit more):
Code: [Select]
solitary.txt
frogfractions.txt
jerboagarden.txt
thebottomless.txt
diodes.txt
atthepond.txt
deadlycells.txt
overhead.txt
centipede.txt
scrapingthescripture.txt
spinmearound.txt
sendingapostcard.txt
ifoisland.txt
parrotcage.txt
africanwigwam.txt
inthecubicle.txt
rockontheblock.txt

Also attached are the solutions to my and your new levels.

Offline Simon

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 2595
    • View Profile
    • Lix
Re: Miniatures (10 small levels)
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2019, 06:34:11 am »
geoo's solutions to my maps are all intended.

I streamed geoo's 4 new miniatures yesterday, link remains good for 14 days.

The Bottomless Closet: We narrowed the steel platform below the exit. This caused geoo's proof to fail. geoo, could you please reprove The Bottomless Closet as it is now in unstable/master?

I didn't manage to solve The Bottomless Closet on stream, I'd rank it higher. In total, I'm considering this ordering:

Proposed ranking (click to show/hide)

-- Simon
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 06:48:56 am by Simon »

Online namida

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 8471
    • View Profile
    • NeoLemmix Website
Re: Miniatures (10 small levels)
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2019, 07:36:06 am »
Regarding ordering, is having a specified order critical in Lix?

In NeoLemmix, in the absence of a defined level order, NeoLemmix automatically sorts the levels into alphabetical order. If I remember correctly, it also won't assign level numbers when this is the case, though I might be wrong on that. For smaller packs, and perhaps even certain types of larger packs, this may sometimes be more logical - not to mention for "misc single levels" directories, which sounds like is the situation here.
My released level packs:
Lemmings Plus Series | Doomsday Lemmings

Offline geoo

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 1321
    • View Profile
Re: Miniatures (10 small levels)
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2019, 08:23:51 pm »
Fixed backroutes for two levels and attached new replays for those.
Proposed ordering is fine with me.

namida: Without specified ordering they'd appear in alphabetical order but we don't want that as they should ideally be sorted in roughly increasing difficulty.

Offline Ramon

  • Posts: 89
    • View Profile
    • JRK Studios
Re: Miniatures (10 small levels)
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2019, 04:35:39 pm »
Here my replays, I skimmed through the pack in the last 24 hours or so, was very fun and sometimes frustrating!

A rough difficulty tier list for me personally, based on how long (or how many fresh retries after doing other things) I needed for a level:

Simple:
Solitary Confinement, Frog Fractions, Diodes, At the Pond, Overhead, Scraping the Scripture, Centipede, Ifo Island, Spin Me Around, African Wigwam

Medium:
Dadly Cells, Sending a Postcard, Jerboa Garden, Parrot Cage

Hard:
The Bottomless Closet, In the Cubicle, Rock on the Block

Offline geoo

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 1321
    • View Profile
Re: Miniatures (10 small levels)
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2019, 10:42:26 am »
Good job! Pretty much all intended (for my levels anyway), except for some minor variations.
Thanks also for the difficulty estimates! I found African Wigwam quite tricky when I first played it.

I slightly modified Deadly Cells and Spin Me Around, see attached. Original proofs should still work.
Rock on the Block is also a tiny bit different, but definitely in the spirit of the original solution, no need to change anything there.

Offline Ramon

  • Posts: 89
    • View Profile
    • JRK Studios
Re: Miniatures (10 small levels)
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2019, 12:30:37 pm »
I'll be looking forward to contributing to this pack with some mean bug-infested levels as per usual which will become unplayable in the close future with Simon rogue-patching them out 8-)