Author Topic: Simon speedruns Jazz Jackrabbit 1  (Read 8992 times)

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Offline Simon

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Simon speedruns Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« on: October 02, 2016, 08:10:27 pm »
I caught interest in Jazz Jackrabbit 1 speedrunning.

This is lots of memorization and dexterity. The speed is so high, you must memorize enemy locations to react in time during jumps.



Damage boosting in JJ1 feels like flying. When you hit an enemy, it knocks you back into the direction you came from. If you have held the wrong direction long enough before the hit, you bounce off enemies into the direction you want to go, almost at full speed, invincible.

When I made this topic, my times were around 35 minutes, and the world record was 30:32.

Update 2016-11-17: World record get! And continuing to improve.
Update 2018-01-13: I broke the 28-minute barrier with 27:57. We believe 27:00 is humanly impossible.

Watch my best run: speedrun.com leaderboard with videos

-- Simon
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 12:45:17 pm by Simon »

Offline grams88

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Re: Simon practises Jazz Jackrabbit 1 runs
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2016, 09:06:17 pm »
Oh my speedrunning can be very difficult. That is a close time Simon, you might have the potential to beat that time of 30:41, you never know. If there are any ways you can shave a few minutes off the time go for it.




Offline ccexplore

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Re: Simon practises Jazz Jackrabbit 1 runs
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2016, 10:10:02 pm »
I caught interest in Jazz Jackrabbit 1 speedrunning.

This is lots of memorization and dexterity. The speed is so high, you must memorize enemy locations to react in time during jumps.

Honestly, I'm surprised that you caught interest at all. :lem-shocked: Speedrunning feels precisely like the kind of grindy, execution-heavy activity that I imagine you would eschew.  Granted, if you're okay with letting other people beat you out of your record by mere seconds (or frames!) on the grindiest of details (and god help you if the game's physics includes pseudorandom elements), usually there are many broader glitches, backroutes, tricks and other strategies to help you get to the ballpark of an optimal route, and I can imagine Simon catching some interest in that sort of thing.  Maybe.  Actually still not that much given it's not even a tool-assisted speedrun, it sounds like one actually executed manually completely unaided.

All that said, best of luck and would love to see a video eventually, even if it falls far short of world record. :lix-cool:
« Last Edit: October 03, 2016, 10:16:10 pm by ccexplore »

Offline Simon

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Re: Simon practises Jazz Jackrabbit 1 runs
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2016, 01:16:57 am »
Quote from: grams88
If there are any ways you can shave a few minutes off the time go for it.

There'll be a reasonable shave of 30 seconds to 1 minute by... not dying. :lix-winktongue: The best time still had 1 avoidable death. Levels take between 20 seconds and 1 minute, death moves you back to their beginning, and you lose weapons.

I caught interest in Jazz Jackrabbit 1 speedrunning. This is lots of memorization and dexterity.
Honestly, I'm surprised that you caught interest at all. :lem-shocked: Speedrunning feels precisely like the kind of grindy, execution-heavy activity that I imagine you would eschew.

it's not even a tool-assisted speedrun, it sounds like one actually executed manually completely unaided.

<_<;

Yeah, it's real-time attack.

Grinding and mindless repetition is acceptable here, because it's an end-in-itself. There's no purpose outside of training for this particular game. When I fail, it's for my own fault, but it doesn't impact anything else.

Quote
(and god help you if the game's physics includes pseudorandom elements)

Physics can be chaotic, but not random. Gadgets spawn once they're very close to the screen. Most gadgets behave in a pattern according to passed time since their own spawn, that's easy to anticipate.

But certain gadgets move in a pattern according to time since level start. This is harder to plan. At least one place feels random, can cost seconds. Not a worry yet.

Quote
tricks and other strategies to help you get to the ballpark of an optimal route, and I can imagine Simon catching some interest in that

The route is a mixture of my own knowledge, Vortale's real-time WR, and a TAS. Most of it comes from the real-time WR. I do some things differently on purpose, but most are different only because I haven't practised the better method.

Quote
All that said, best of luck and would love to see a video eventually, even if it falls far short of world record. :lix-cool:

Thanks! Maybe I can talk Icho into screencasting from his machine. :-]

-- Simon

Offline Simon

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Re: Simon practises Jazz Jackrabbit 1 runs
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2016, 11:27:17 am »
34:30 yesterday night,

and another 35:15 this morning. Still lots of potential over yesterday's time.

Zero deaths will save ≥ 20 seconds yet.
Play JJ 1.0 instead of 1.2 for ≥ 15 seconds. Minor level differences. Published runs use 1.0.
Memorize Sluggion 2 for ≥ 10 seconds. I lack most theory here.
And lots and lots of execution in all the hard levels.

I shouldn't be playing games all day, I'm an adult. >_>

<Ramond> I'm disappointed
<Ramond> the forum overview showed "Simon practices Jazz" and I had my hopes up :p
<Ramond> turns out it is a speedrunning thread, which is still cool nonetheless


-- Simon
« Last Edit: October 05, 2016, 08:04:21 pm by Simon »

Offline Akseli

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Re: Simon practises Jazz Jackrabbit 1 runs
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2016, 07:22:37 pm »
This thread is awesome.

Offline Simon

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Re: Simon practises Jazz Jackrabbit 1 runs
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2016, 08:03:14 pm »
<SimonN> I'm hanging out in mumble
<SimonN> I will be playing JJ but up for discussion meanwhile
<Akseli_> I will hit the mattresses pretty much now, I tried again to go to bed in 10 pm but it's 16 minutes over already.. :-P
<SimonN> okay, good night then :-)


33:35, no deaths. :lix-evil:

I have ordered a new desktop computer, I should have that in a week or two. I plan to install Arch Linux and will try to screencast from there. The wise internet believes that screencasting on Linux has improved within the recent years, Open Broadcaster became open-sourced and cross-platform.

As Icho puts it: We will see. :8():

-- Simon
« Last Edit: October 24, 2016, 06:40:13 am by Simon »

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Simon practises Jazz Jackrabbit 1 runs
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2016, 08:47:11 pm »
I have ordered a new desktop computer

Wow, a new computer just for JJ??!? :lem-mindblown: Talk about serious commitment. ;P  Of all the possible reasons for Simon to finally get a new computer, I would've never guessed anything like this in a million years. :lix-winktongue:

[edit: okay in hindsight, I guess that assertion is a bit exaggerated.  I mean, certainly not JJ specifically, but clearly "the computer is not powerful enough to do something I wanted" is an obvious candidate reason. ;)]

Is there something I'm missing here by the way?  Did Simon like just graduated and got his PhD or something?  October is usually not what I think of as vacation time, and other typical reasons for have a (seeming) sudden increase in free time tend to be of the bad news variety...... :XD:
« Last Edit: October 05, 2016, 09:08:48 pm by ccexplore »

Offline Simon

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Re: Simon practises Jazz Jackrabbit 1 runs
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2016, 10:00:37 pm »
Quote
clearly "the computer is not powerful enough to do something I wanted" is an obvious candidate reason. ;)

Yeah, I think this is it.

I have wanted to get a new machine for a while. This laptop is either loud and slow, or terribly loud.

I choose loud and slow, but then D Lix debugging build takes 19 seconds to compile for 21,000 lines of code. That's annoying for reasonable iteration. D compiles very fast, but it's tricky to get incremental builds, the recommended solution is to just build everything.

I have Debian 6 installed from 2011, and don't want to risk updating. By now, I fear that everything would break left and right. Instead, I want to keep this laptop as a backup, and bet my money on a new machine instead. I'm trying a vendor who builds absolutely silent machines.

Wow, a new computer just for JJ??!? :lem-mindblown: Talk about serious commitment. ;P  Of all the possible reasons for Simon to finally get a new computer, I would've never guessed anything like this in a million years. :lix-winktongue:

This is such a cute reaction, thanks. :lix-grin: Made my day!

Quote
Did Simon like just graduated and got his PhD or something?

Nah, no PhD yet.

I was on a one-week summer school, no wifi in my hostel room. After math during the day, I found perfect evening fillers in JJ1 running and going to bed early. What an aftermath. <_<;;

-- Simon

Offline Simon

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Re: Simon runs Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2016, 02:46:58 am »
Video: Simon plays JJ1 Episode 2, 117 MB, 5:12 minutes, with commentary.

I have my new machine. :lix-grin: As promised, here's a first video for download. Smooth video, and I invested the time to add both game audio and commentary, which I haven't managed to record in one go.

Enjoy!

-- Simon
« Last Edit: October 18, 2016, 03:50:03 am by Simon »

Offline Akseli

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Re: Simon runs Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2016, 04:38:26 pm »
Pretty swell. It was January 2011 when I last played Jazz Jackrabbit 1 (and therefore I can't remember the details very accurately), but I certainly have rated it as one of my favourite DOS games. Also, it appears that I have played a different version of JJ1 (1.3) that made, for example, Orbitus 2 pretty difficult to beat, although really memorable.

Still one solid looking, entertaining run with some neat tricks and informative commentary there, with some golden JJ1 music and nostalgy. :)

Offline Simon

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Re: Simon runs Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2016, 04:47:35 pm »
Thanks! :lix-smile:

-- Simon

Offline mobius

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Re: Simon runs Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2016, 10:50:08 pm »
I know nothing of this game, so I was doubly impressed to see this looks to have non-linear levels much like Sonic, perhaps even more so?
Speedrunning is difficult. Not something I'm good at at all, so I'm always impressed at seeing it done.
"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
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Offline Simon

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Re: Simon runs Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2016, 11:12:06 pm »
Thanks for taking a look, even without prior knowledge. :)

Yes, some levels have large-scale branching. You can explore all of the level and find lots of hidden secrets. The game has bonus stages and hidden levels even. The speedrun doesn't visit them though.

Early Sonic games were inspiration for JJ.

-- Simon

Offline Simon

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Re: Simon runs Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2016, 10:01:45 pm »
First fully-recorded deathless run.

I haven't timed this with any extra programs. This was a twitch stream; if the movie was accurate, then it was between 33 and 34, but I'll be modest and write 35 minutes.

Happy: Technoir 2, I get the difficult spring in the middle, and do a hard damage boost near the end. Fanolint 1, I keep all four shields. Sluggion 2, so smooth.

Unhappy: Diamondus 2, but didn't reset because I needed a test recording. Marbelara 2, I want to boost off the very first enemy, but run into him instead. I invented this boost, but maybe it's too fickle.

-- Simon
« Last Edit: November 13, 2016, 11:38:31 pm by Simon »

Offline Simon

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Re: Simon runs Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2016, 06:39:55 am »


31:59.86. Video with full commentary! 350 MB, the commentary explains basic game rules, and strategy too. You can understand it even if you have never played the game.

<SimonNa> must see A++ would watch 10 times
<SimonNa> where is Akseli to spam :DD:::DDD:D:D:


-- Simon
« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 12:34:23 am by Simon »

Offline Simon

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Re: Simon runs Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2016, 12:36:01 am »
31:31, new personal best. Twitch excerpt with live commentary. Akseli, möbius and Proxima have watched this stream live already.

I submitted the video to speedrun.com's JJ1 ranking list, my time got accepted as second place. :lix-grin:

-- Simon
« Last Edit: November 18, 2016, 01:50:29 am by Simon »

Offline NaOH

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Re: Simon runs Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2016, 08:44:52 pm »
Congratulations on getting second place!

I just watched your first run while doing homework and then skimmed your second run. Very entertaining! I can see how the game physics looks fun to run and jump around in. To be honest, it wasn't at all clear how effective damage-boosting looked as an outside observer; it looked like you were already going top speed when you hit the enemies?

I like your commentary style. The (few) let's plays I've seen, they tend to talk about unrelated to the game. The way you gave your commentary it was like getting the secret low-down. :) Makes me feel like I should do one of these.

Offline mobius

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Re: Simon runs Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2016, 09:15:54 pm »
Congratulations on getting second place!

I just watched your first run while doing homework and then skimmed your second run. Very entertaining! I can see how the game physics looks fun to run and jump around in. To be honest, it wasn't at all clear how effective damage-boosting looked as an outside observer; it looked like you were already going top speed when you hit the enemies?

I like your commentary style. The (few) let's plays I've seen, they tend to talk about unrelated to the game. The way you gave your commentary it was like getting the secret low-down. :) Makes me feel like I should do one of these.

////////random rant

I agree and nothing irritates me more than LPer's who ramble on endlessly about topics wholly unrelated to the game. It's okay to chat randomly once and a while but if I came to see a video LP of Lemmings I don't want a dissertation on the Presidential election system. :P
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Offline Simon

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Re: Simon runs Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2016, 10:38:55 pm »
it wasn't at all clear how effective damage-boosting looked as an outside observer; it looked like you were already going top speed when you hit the enemies?

I use "damage boost" to describe three related phenomena, and don't disambiguate. Often it's clear from context which apply, but without prior knowledge it's confusing. The meanings are:
  • Running into or through enemies, that saves the time from evading or shooting them. Enemies above and below are hard to hit at all.
  • Bouncing off an enemy because it has damaged you. The game knocks you into either left or right, depending on where you didn't face before. I can turn around to trick the game into bouncing me into the right direction. The worms in Orbitus take too long to shoot, but they can't be avoided easily, therefore I boost off them. I don't get any speed over regular running speed from this, the section would be faster if there were no enemies at all.
  • Using the mercy invincibiliy after a hit to go through enemies. This happens with the mines in Crysilis.
TASVideos JJ resources says that regular running speed is 6, and hitting enemies knocks you somewhere at speed 4, from which you can accelerate back to 6 later.

Quote
I like your commentary style. The (few) let's plays I've seen, they tend to talk about unrelated to the game. The way you gave your commentary it was like getting the secret low-down. :) Makes me feel like I should do one of these.

Thanks! :-)

-- Simon
« Last Edit: November 13, 2016, 10:51:21 pm by Simon »

Offline Simon

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Re: Simon runs Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2016, 01:50:05 am »
World record get, with 30:23. Video: speedrun.com 1st place.

I knew that I'd cut 20 seconds of glaring mistakes from the PB, and then 5 to 10 more seconds due to faster DOSBox settings: I run at 40,000 fixed cycles now, not at 20,000, because 40,000 is the average speed of a 486 machine according to TASVideos.org.

But cutting 25 to 30 seconds wouldn't have made a WR. I have no idea how I cut 35 more seconds by technique.
The game allows a ton of little mistakes everywhere, and I've played solidly throughout episodes 2, 3, 4, 5. In practice earlier this week, I've never managed such solid play. And I'm mashing more rapidly than last month!

<Akseli> "If I save 12 more seconds, it's a world record. But I don't believe it's possible in this run." ~ SimonN 2016
<Akseli> Congratulations Simon!!!!!!!!! :----------------------)


<mobius_> wow, gg SimonN
<mobius_> now that you've fullfilled your dream, what will you do with the rest of your life? :P




I'm still on a high. :-]

-- Simon
« Last Edit: November 18, 2016, 04:47:30 am by Simon »

Offline NaOH

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Re: Simon runs Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2016, 02:23:47 am »
Congratulations! :tal-gold: This emoticon has never been put to better use!

Offline Colorful Arty

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Re: Simon runs Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2016, 03:41:01 am »
That's really impressive Simon. Congratulations! :thumbsup:
My Youtube channel where I let's play games with family-friendly commentary:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiRPZ5j87ft_clSRLFCESQA

My levelpack: SubLems
For NeoLemmix: http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2787.0
For SuperLemmini: http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2704.0

Upcoming levelpack: ArtLems
Development Topic: http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=3166.0

Offline Simon

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Re: Simon runs Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2016, 04:06:26 am »
Thanks thanks! :lix-grin:

-- Simon

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Simon runs Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2016, 10:57:24 am »
World record! That's impressive! Congrats! :thumbsup:

But I still got a better score in the first stage! :XD:

Offline Akseli

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Re: Simon runs Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2016, 10:31:41 pm »
Congratulations Simon :tal-gold: ! :party: :thumbsup: :party: :thumbsup: :party:

Even though I knew you had the world record, it was super exciting to watch the whole run. The best thing in these kinds of runs now and in general is that when you get more and more nearer to the end, you realize that you have the chances to make a great performance, and then even the viewers can feel the tension and adrenaline increasing! Moreover, due to your talking on the stream, we could hear your thoughts and feelings during the whole run, from laid-back attitude in the first levels, getting more and more exciting for all the time saves, then not making tricky Technoir spring jumps or so, then just pondering that you really want to take this already solid run to the end no matter what will happen, trying to get your own personal best and, a little by little, realizing that you’re actually fighting for the world record itself.

Diamondus 1 and Tubelectric 1 seemed flawless. But I'd think that there's something to improve in every other main level.
After Letni you get first time excited for your split time: "Oh fast, Letni, awesome, perfect! That's the biggest save I've ever had in Letni. Aaah, I should just finish this run, because these split times are so awesome. Even if I die."
Megairbase 2: The first time there’s really a threat for dying. And you’re still saying that you should just finish the run for your personal best.

Turtemple 1: Also exciting to watch, knowing that this run will end up being WR.
Turtemple 2: “Aah, this run, this run.”
Jungrock 2: “I get the fast music.”
Bosses 3 & 4 went swiftly in my opinion!

That ecstatic growl after Marbelaras, for saving over 1 second. :D
Dreempipes 1: “It’s an awesome run, right? He he.”
Dreempipes 2: “I’m excited, heh. It’s an awesome run.”
Dreempipes boss: “Pfff. That save. Well if I save, eheheheh huhuhu aaah if I save 12 more seconds it’s a world record, hehehehe. He he he. But that’s impossible I believe in this run.”

And then the formidable episode 6. Pezrock 1 had already suspense. Pezrock 2, great damage boosts.
Crysilis: The excitement is increasing, Simon is getting vivid. :D Crysilis 2 is a marvelous rollercoaster, from super performances to a serious threat to die.

Battleship 1: “Pfffff. This is so close, it is damn close.” And the very end of the level, holy crap, ruining your entire run was within a freaking frame or so. :lem-mindblown:
Battleship 2: So excited that you go down instead of going up. And first try alignment with the bird, which gives you all the keys for taking the WR in the last boss.

Final boss: And you get the damage boost correctly and that’s it. “Hmmng come on die di-di-di-die, pff, hnghh perfect perfect perfect, auwhooaa! This is gonna be world record, this is world record, this is it, this is it. Watch out, watch out watch out watch out! There we go. Aaaah.”

And you’re so full of joy after this.

“Here’s the cutscene. Let’s save Eva Earlong one more time.”

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Simon runs Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2016, 11:03:34 pm »
Wow, not expecting your rather newfound hobby to have gotten so far so quickly as breaking the world record!  Congratulations! 8-)

I guess now I really do need to watch the video. ;P

Interesting that your DOSBox settings is making an impact, I guess it is somewhat to be expected with older DOS games.  I assume you've checked/researched that your current 40000 fixed cycles is indeed optimal for the game?

Offline Simon

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Re: Simon runs Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2016, 03:35:48 pm »
Quote from: Akseli
even the viewers can feel the tension and adrenaline increasing!
realizing that you’re actually fighting for the world record itself.
And you’re so full of joy after this.

So happy that you enjoyed the vid, you even watched this several times. And made this post. :lix-blush:

The performance was scarily good. A rare stroke of awareness and concentration.

But I've only noticed this the day after. I had two runs with average performance, both lost 20 to 30 seconds from the WR during episodes 3, 4, 5.

Quote from: ccxplore
Wow, not expecting your rather newfound hobby to have gotten so far so quickly as breaking the world record!  Congratulations!
I assume you've checked/researched that your current 40000 fixed cycles is indeed optimal for the game?

Thanks thanks!

Performance during play isn't affected. Anything from 16,000 or so plays the same. But load times are affected. The faster I set the cycles, the faster the levels load, and we can get arbitrarily fast load times here. I have to choose something.

I have several reasons for 40,000:
  • DOSBox at max-cycles runs differently for different people, I don't want to rely on that.
  • Levels load a tiny tad slower than on Vortale's 30:32 video, this makes the times comparable. I wanted to be slightly slower or equally fast, but never slightly faster. I think main menu to first level is within 0.1 seconds between Vortale's 30:32 and my 30:23.
  • The JJ manual recommends a 486, and TASVideos.com says: If in doubt, use 40,000 cycles in DOSBox, that's an average 486 computer.
  • I can agree that arbitrary cycle settings are OK for runs, then this video will still be a legal entry.


I got confidence that the 30:23 wasn't a fluke. :lix-cool:
Image: 30:24 today (click to show/hide)

-- Simon
« Last Edit: November 20, 2016, 03:21:11 am by Simon »

Offline grams88

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Re: Simon runs Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2016, 09:58:33 pm »
Welldone Simon on getting that record. That's impressive. I might give you a gold talisman as well. :tal-gold: Those speedruns can be mighty hard to beat at the best of times even if you feel like a master of a certain game you be surprised at how good people are at certain games.

I've never played played the Jazz Jackrabbit games myself but I do hear that they are top games. :thumbsup:

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Simon runs Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2016, 08:43:30 pm »
Performance during play isn't affected. Anything from 16,000 or so plays the same. But load times are affected. The faster I set the cycles, the faster the levels load, and we can get arbitrarily fast load times here. I have to choose something.

I have several reasons for 40,000:
  • DOSBox at max-cycles runs differently for different people, I don't want to rely on that.
  • Levels load a tiny tad slower than on Vortale's 30:32 video, this makes the times comparable. I wanted to be slightly slower or equally fast, but never slightly faster. I think main menu to first level is within 0.1 seconds between Vortale's 30:32 and my 30:23.
  • The JJ manual recommends a 486, and TASVideos.com says: If in doubt, use 40,000 cycles in DOSBox, that's an average 486 computer.
  • I can agree that arbitrary cycle settings are OK for runs, then this video will still be a legal entry.

Interesting.  I can see the comparable-time argument at the point when Vortale's video was still the gold standard; however now that yours is the new world record, I sure wouldn't want someone else to beat the record with worse gameplay performance merely by tweaking the cycles settings (and/or any other DOSBox or game settings that can impact load times) to offset.  It would at least be good to get a sense of how many seconds might be further gained purely from reducing the load times just to verify that it's small enough not to matter much.

Offline Simon

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Re: Simon runs Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2016, 04:52:11 am »
30:19

Haven't highlighted that yet. Attempt #155 starts at 1:57:10 in this video. Maybe Akseli wants to look at Sluggion 2 for the lulz. I re-routed jumps in Marbelara 2. This WR simply redistributes mistakes from the previous one, I get the Technoir 2 spring, but exit the game after episode 3 again.

And I'm not as excited at the end. :lix-wink:

grams: Thanks!
ccx: I'm pushing to the backburner the decision with the cycles. I'll have to bring it up again once somebody else posts runs to the leaderboard. I estimate that you can get 2-5 more seconds with faster cycles, it looks less than the 20,000-to-40,000 difference.

-- Simon
« Last Edit: December 01, 2016, 07:20:40 am by Simon »

Offline Simon

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Re: Simon runs Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #31 on: November 24, 2016, 07:30:53 pm »


I'll stream Sonic With A Gun tomorrow, November 25th.

Sonic With A Gun is a mod of JJ1 that looks and feels like the old Sonic titles for the Sega Genesis. There are several scripted events After chatting with the SWAG's creator, I found that nothing is scripted, all the Sonic-ness comes from magic already inside JJ1.

Link to my stream
Webpage for SWAG

I have played a few levels only. Most of it I'll play completely blind. Allegedly, the levels get very hard later on. See you tomorrow!

Unrelated bonus link:
Music from JJ1, JJ2 + TSF, and JJ3

-- Simon
« Last Edit: November 26, 2016, 08:10:28 pm by Simon »

Offline Simon

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Re: Simon runs Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2016, 01:47:42 am »
One of my RAM sticks broke 5 days ago. Firefox crashed every 10 minutes, sometimes even after seconds. I memchecked my PC today and removed the broken stick. Now I'm at 8 GB RAM instead of 16 GB, but nothing crashes anymore <3 So happy to be able to stream again.

<Akseli> aaare youu reaadyyy ??!?!?
<Akseli> Jazz Jackrabbit 2 Tubelectric remix, the guy says at the beginning: "Are you ready?"
<SimonNa> Bust-a-move
<SimonNa> I am considering to stream within a couple minutes, but Akseli wants to go to bed already
<Akseli> Yeah I have pretty early mornings: need to wake up 10.15 am every morning :P


Your decision was healthy and unstressful. :-]



2016-12-01: I made up for the mistake today. 30:08.

2016-12-03: First time under 30 minutes: 29:59.

2016-12-22: 29:57. Speedrun.com leaderboard with video.

-- Simon
« Last Edit: January 09, 2017, 10:56:15 am by Simon »

Offline Simon

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Re: Simon runs Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2017, 05:04:57 am »
I still run JJ actively, for 4 months now. I stream on twitch 3 or 4 times a week, 2-4 hours each time.

On 2016-12-22, before I left town to visit my parents, I WR'ed with 29:57, yet I'm unsatisfied. :-) This run screws up in comparatively easy places. In the two weeks since, I found several tricks and improvements. I feel like I can get 29:50 easily, and 29:40 with grinding. But I haven't managed to beat the 29:57 yet. Several good runs died near the end. geoo and Animiral recommend more conservative playstyle. I'm not sure whether I want to compromise. I want the perfect finish. <_<;


I fixed a rounding bug in the run timer and am already contemplating another issue (unsplitting a mistaken split doesn't un-gold the mistake). The timer isn't updated much these days, but they still merge pull requests. That's good style when you don't develop actively.

I made a Youtube channel for future runs. It's widespread to speedrun on twitch, then upload the best runs to youtube: Video-on-demand works better there, it reaches a wider audience, and viewers can comment on the run. Right now, the channel has only the 29:57.

Edit 2017-01-09:

New best with 29:33. Happy!

-- Simon
« Last Edit: October 21, 2017, 04:30:32 pm by Simon »

Offline Akseli

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Re: Simon runs Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2017, 08:07:10 pm »
This thread keeps being awesome.

And those dying run gifs are at the same time weirdly enjoyable and so painful to look at. :D
#338: This is the case in my opinion where the optimization is not that worthy at all (saving fractions of a second?), just make sure that you don't lose the bird (complete ruining of the run)... :P
#351: This is the most difficult situation in these gifs, obviously. I don't know how much slower the rest of Crysilis2 and Battleships are without the guns and ammo if you shoot the check point sign in Crysilis2 and just continue the whole run after a possible death in that dangerous lower left area of the level.
#353: Another epic piece of blooper material, there's not enough patience at the end of a solid run. :D Entertainment value is high, even though it's opposite kind of a situation compared to a great success. :P

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Re: Simon runs Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #35 on: January 13, 2017, 11:52:03 am »
Several things happened this week. On 2017-01-09, I WR'ed Episodes 1-6 with 29:33, a massive improvement over the 2016 records. This is the first run with the new skip in Dreempipes, you shoot a water-raising switch through a thick wall. I heeded Akseli's advice and took care with the bird.

<Akseli> nice WR there, congratulations Simon!
<Proxima> just finished watching, great run :)


Thanks thanks!

CapnClever presented Jazz Jackrabbit at AGDQ 2017. He did a splendit job, episodes 1-6 in 30:39 with excellent introductory commentary by CapnClever. He used my newly-found skip in Dreempipes 1 and the all-out aggressive 3-boost method in Crysilis 2, I didn't expect this. Both I and Vortale regarded the run highly in the youtube comments. I commented the run live for the German restream.

Last night, I PB'ed episodes A-C in 16:05. Sloppy Exoticus 2, but an exciting and smooth Deserto. ("Whatever comes after here, I want to damage boost off, so I want to be out of shields by here.") There's still potential for improvement in this run, the error density is higher than in episodes 1-6. As you can see in the videos' top-right corners, I attempted episodes 1-6 about 400 times, and episodes A-C only 100 times.

-- Simon
« Last Edit: April 03, 2017, 12:17:58 pm by Simon »

Offline mobius

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Re: Simon runs Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #36 on: January 13, 2017, 09:48:02 pm »
that's pretty cool.

I find it a tad ironic you got famous for this, but not for building a game from scratch in your free time :P
"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man"
-the Dude


Offline Simon

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Re: Simon speedruns Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #37 on: October 02, 2017, 10:12:01 am »
I will show both Jazz Jackrabbit and Titus the Fox in the Zocktoberfest, a German online marathon, on November 3 at 02:40 UTC. I will post links to the marathon stream on shorter notice. The commentary will be in German, but I'll give nods in English to the communities around both games.

I've speedrun Jazz since September 2016. The community is small, only 5-6 people have ever run it. I've held world record since November 2016. geoo has contributed to the route, he found the death warp in Jungrock 1 at 16:15 in the WR linked below.

Titus the Fox is even more of a niche game, it's a 1992 platformer for DOS. Looks easy, turns out hard. Everything snowballs into disaster already from very few mistakes. In 2012, there was a segmented Fox all-levels run in 20:21. I've worked on the route heavily with Covert_Madness and Rikus, and now have an uncontested single-segment all-levels in 15:45.

Best times with video:
I run both games on twitch, each at least once per week.

-- Simon
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 10:55:00 am by Simon »

Offline grams88

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Re: Simon speedruns Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #38 on: October 02, 2017, 08:54:07 pm »
Checked out your (fox all in 15:45 video) you've done really well Simon, :) :) that is quite fast. I just completed Titus the fox game must of been around last year for the atari st but I've never tried a speedrun of it. There was something that I found in relation to the lives system in Titus the fox. Say for instance you have all your energy and you collect more energy, I think that increases the points and you end up getting more lives when you complete a level. It's funny that as with a lot of the old games, you sort of had to figure out how the lives system works, sometimes in certain games you get certain amount of lives and those have to last you the entire game.

Foxy's den was a bit of a nightmare level, I had system so that I could remember what way to go when going up the ladders. The man on the helicopter thing probably has to die, I remember them being a bit of a pain as they were able to follow you everywhere.

I remember that pipe level being a bit of a nightmare as you had to try to remember where to go. You managed to speedrun that one quite well, I don't think you even entered the pipes.

I remember on that level going home, you had to conserve the boxes, don't throw the boxes away which can be an easy thing to do.

I must say welldone for getting that speedrun time.

Offline Simon

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Re: Simon speedruns Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #39 on: October 02, 2017, 09:30:11 pm »
Thanks for watching!

Yeah, Foxy's Den has many enemies, we can't kill all due to the item shortage. I found this level extremely hard as a kid. In the speedrun, most enemies are predictable, only the rolling fireballs are erratic and can kill runs. All 3 helicopter enemies have to die.

Pipe Dream without the shortcut is trial & error, and lots of memorization, sadly. That's the difference between 1990 game design and modern games.

Congrats for beating Fox on your own! I assume the Atari version and the DOS version have comparable difficulty.

-- Simon

Offline 607

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Re: Simon speedruns Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #40 on: October 15, 2017, 12:52:24 pm »
Friday, huh? I hope I'll be able to catch it live... I'll look into it when it gets closer, I'll at least save the date somewhere. :)

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Re: Simon speedruns Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #41 on: October 30, 2017, 10:25:48 pm »
My Jazz Jackrabbit in the Zocktoberfest marathon starts in one hour (October 30 at 23:20 UTC). This is a German marathon, commentary will be in German.

https://www.twitch.tv/germenchrestream

Fox will be in the same German marathon on Friday, October 3, at 03:28 UTC. I've submitted the Jazz run to the Shots Fired marathon, that will have English commentary. Probable date is Thursday, November 16, at 17:00 UTC.

-- Simon

Offline Forestidia86

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Re: Simon speedruns Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #42 on: October 30, 2017, 10:37:24 pm »
Looking forward to that and much luck! May the bird be fast.

Offline grams88

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Re: Simon speedruns Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #43 on: November 01, 2017, 05:59:23 pm »
I would say that there is a little bit of a difference with the titus the fox Atari st and the dos version. One of the main ones I noticed was at the boss with the axe, in the atari version the boss room looks a bit different to the dos version.


Thanks Simon, it was a hard game to complete but I wanted to complete the game as it was one of those childhood games I used to play a long time ago.

Offline Forestidia86

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Re: Simon speedruns Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #44 on: November 03, 2017, 03:13:21 pm »
Want to congratulate to your Fox run:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline Simon

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Re: Simon speedruns Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #45 on: November 04, 2017, 11:00:22 am »
Thanks!

Half a year earlier, I believed that the Fox run would be too volatile to show in a Marathon. And it is still volatile, there is a risk of not finishing, but it's become small enough to try. I'm really happy how it turned out.

Links to the Marathon runs: Jazz in 29:13, Fox in 17:53, both in German commentary. No record times, but with explanations for new viewers.

Re need to swivel on spikes in Jazz: There are two methods to avoid damage: Accelerate on spikes, or hit the blind pixels where the hitbox doesn't seem to exist. Still, I should investigate this once more.

-- Simon

Offline Forestidia86

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Re: Simon speedruns Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #46 on: November 04, 2017, 11:44:36 pm »
Re need to swivel on spikes in Jazz: There are two methods to avoid damage: Accelerate on spikes, or hit the blind pixels where the hitbox doesn't seem to exist. Still, I should investigate this once more.

Simon, you can just leave the jump key pressed and Jazz jumps on the spikes without taking damage (unless you hit the sides of the spikes). Just try it with the first spikes at the beginning of Medievo 1.
Edit: Damage seems to occur sometimes as well if you press an arrow key while hitting the spikes or something the like. (Is it because of the speed or the angle you hit the spikes in this case or that it keeps you longer on the spikes?)
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 01:03:23 am by Forestidia86 »

Offline Simon

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Re: Simon speedruns Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #47 on: November 05, 2017, 04:34:01 am »
Quote
leave the jump key pressed and Jazz jumps on the spikes without taking damage

Confirmed on the spikes in Medivo, Pezrock, and Crysilis. Thanks! When we don't move sideways, or when we move sideways only slowly, we avoid all damage, independent of our horiziontal position. Only after you release jump, you take damage.

The swivelling trick (= push opposite direction as you land on the spikes to avoid damage) is merely a corollary from your finding. By swivelling, we reduce horizontal speed and then build it again after jumping off the spikes.

I don't know why fast horizontal movement affects this; but indeed we take damage if we move fast.

Quote
unless you hit the sides of the spikes

Sides of floors in Jazz aren't perfect corners, they're rounded corners. Jazz can stand lower, almost within the tile, on the edges of platforms. If you take damage here from spikes despite jump buffering, it's because you sink further into the tile, overlapping with the damage trigger area.

The cacti in Turtemple are different: Their damage trigger area is larger than the solid part of the tile. You can never stand on these even with jump buffering.

-- Simon

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Re: Simon speedruns Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #48 on: November 16, 2017, 12:33:58 pm »
I will run Jazz in the Shots Fired marathon tonight, with English commentary. The run starts around 17:00 UTC, that's 4.5 hours from now.

Schedule: https://horaro.org/shotsfired5/schedule
Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/shotsfiredmarathon

-- Simon

Offline Proxima

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Re: Simon speedruns Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #49 on: November 16, 2017, 02:39:21 pm »
Good luck! I can't be there this time, work starts at 1800.

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Simon speedruns Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #50 on: December 13, 2017, 07:59:52 am »
Well, I stumbled across these on Youtube and I wondered if Simon knows that these episodes exist:

Jazz Jackrabbit I Holiday Hare episodes 1994/1995:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNUGVO22tLc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGAJojrCrAs

I don't know if these are already old news to you or not. ;P      If not then I guess have fun Speedrunning!

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Re: Simon speedruns Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #51 on: December 13, 2017, 09:23:24 am »
Yes, I've already known these. Both were released as standalone shareware, and HH94 was later included in the Jazz 1.3 CD release.

I have played these casually last year, but have never routed them, and I don't have recorded runs of these. There is a TAS of HH94 and a TAS of HH95, both by Ilari, one of the 3 tool-assisted speedrunners of Jazz 1-6 and A-C.

If somebody else wants to run either Holiday Hare: Feel free to show me your attempts, I'll happily give feedback on the route and work with you.

-- Simon

Offline Forestidia86

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Re: Simon speedruns Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #52 on: December 17, 2017, 09:19:12 am »
I've just played casually blind through HH94 on easy. That last level was quite confusing and scary with our beloved friends the hands (at least you can get rid of them). Apart from that health seems to be scarce in this episode (therefore you get a lot of RF-missiles) and everything felt quite slippery.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 09:34:29 am by Forestidia86 »

Offline Simon

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Re: Simon speedruns Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #53 on: February 20, 2018, 01:47:07 am »
This weekend (February 17 and 18), I was in Zoetermeer, Netherlands, at the Jazz exhibition of the National Video Game Muesum.

I speedran Jazz 1 with marathon commentary for a live audience of 20 to 30 people, about a third of them from the Jazz 2 online community.
Photo 1
Photo 2
Group photo with the Jazz 2 community, I'm 2nd from the left

I ran E1-6, then A-C even though I didn't practice that, then showed Deserto on Turbo. E1-6 was the main attraction, people liked the commentary while running. Missed Technoir spring 3 times and resorted to the full 10-second wait on the spring cycle. Didn't get Dreempipes 2 TAS mine boost into the pipe. Everything else went smoothly. We didn't time it, I would expect it to be 29:00.

The museum is a collection of arcade machines. For an entrance fee, you get to play all arcade machines for free. The owner even built a machine himself, by hiding a Windows computer, keyboard, and mouse in a cabinet, and only exposing screen, joystick, and buttons:
Jazz 2 arcade

I've met 607 (Lemmings Forums member) and we played In The Groove 2, a rhythm/dancing game, on a dedicated cabinet. I played these games 10 years ago on home pads at my parents' house, during my late high school years. Back then, I managed 9s and occasionally very easy 10s, but after this much time, even the 7s and 8s were hard. Still, surprising how much of the pattern recognition was still fresh in my mind.

-- Simon

Offline nin10doadict

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Re: Simon speedruns Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #54 on: February 20, 2018, 02:08:15 am »
I still don't know much of anything about Jazz Jackrabbit apart from what I've picked up from you, but I do enjoy DDR/ITG. 7-9 difficulty is about the highest I can pass, I think.

Offline 607

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Re: Simon speedruns Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #55 on: February 28, 2018, 06:52:49 pm »
This weekend (February 17 and 18), I was in Zoetermeer, Netherlands, at the Jazz exhibition of the National Video Game Muesum.

I speedran Jazz 1 with marathon commentary for a live audience of 20 to 30 people, about a third of them from the Jazz 2 online community.
Photo 1
Photo 2
Group photo with the Jazz 2 community, I'm 2nd from the left

I ran E1-6, then A-C even though I didn't practice that, then showed Deserto on Turbo. E1-6 was the main attraction, people liked the commentary while running. Missed Technoir spring 3 times and resorted to the full 10-second wait on the spring cycle. Didn't get Dreempipes 2 TAS mine boost into the pipe. Everything else went smoothly. We didn't time it, I would expect it to be 29:00.

The museum is a collection of arcade machines. For an entrance fee, you get to play all arcade machines for free. The owner even built a machine himself, by hiding a Windows computer, keyboard, and mouse in a cabinet, and only exposing screen, joystick, and buttons:
Jazz 2 arcade

I've met 607 (Lemmings Forums member) and we played In The Groove 2, a rhythm/dancing game, on a dedicated cabinet. I played these games 10 years ago on home pads at my parents' house, during my late high school years. Back then, I managed 9s and occasionally very easy 10s, but after this much time, even the 7s and 8s were hard. Still, surprising how much of the pattern recognition was still fresh in my mind.

-- Simon
This was a lot of fun! :D
I was wondering where you had learnt to play DDR/ITG. I really enjoyed it, and I wish I could play more... :P There do seem to be some arcades in Utrecht, which is fairly close to where I live, but I can't use public transit for free yet. I read some topics online, and it sounds like playing at home is either very expensive or not of high enough quality. I also don't have any Playstation consoles, and the GameCube DDR (Mario Mix) seems to be tailored to beginners.

Offline grams88

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Re: Simon speedruns Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #56 on: March 02, 2018, 11:34:39 pm »
I wonder if you were the champion 607 or Simon was the champion at the (In the groove 2).

Offline 607

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Re: Simon speedruns Jazz Jackrabbit 1
« Reply #57 on: March 03, 2018, 12:56:00 pm »
I wonder if you were the champion 607 or Simon was the champion at the (In the groove 2).
Simon played one or two difficulties higher than I did on every track, as I hadn't ever played the game before. ;) I did learn quickly, though, I think!