Author Topic: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)  (Read 20624 times)

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Offline namida

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This topic is for discussion of the levels, feedback, posting replays, etc. For creators wishing to post updates, or if you're looking for the latest updates, please check this topic instead.

So, entries have closed, it's time to play! :)

The submissions are (as usual, alphabetical by author name):

<V4> "Safe Descent" by bsmith (NeoLemmix)
<V4> "Mind the gap!" by Crane (NeoLemmix)
<V1> "Cogopolis" by DynaLem (NeoLemmix)
<V2> "Parking Garage" by Geoffster (NeoLemmix)
<V3> "Las Ranas Hermanas" by geoo (Lix)
<V1> "The Adventures Of Lemdiana Jones" by IchoTolot (NeoLemmix)
<V1> "House on a Hill" by mobius (NeoLemmix)
<V1> "Altruism" by Nepster (Lix)

NOTES:
IchoTolot's level has a custom music file to accompany it. This should be placed in the same folder as CustLemmixNeo.exe.
Nepster has recommended that his level may be more difficult on the 2015-08-09 release due to physics changes, and an older release should be used if possible. Geoo recommends the opposite for his level.

The levels are in an attached ZIP. To play the levels:

NeoLemmix: Run NeoCustLemmix, press F6 on the title screen, and select the LVL file. Alternatively, open them in the editor, then press F2 for playtest mode (requires a copy of NeoCustLemmix in the same folder as the editor).

Lix: Copy the level into the /levels/single/ subfolder, then select them from the "Single Player" menu.


Update phase will end at whatever comes last - 22/08/15, or when 72 hours have passed since the last time an update was posted (currently 22/08/15 15:50). The voting phase will begin about 5 days after the update phase ends.



As a reminder, the prizes available for this contest are:

The prizes available for this contest are:
- US $12.50
- One and a half month's advertising in the forum's news ticker for a project you are involved in, whether lemmings-related or not, and whether free or not
- Early access to the Ghosts gimmick in NeoLemmix <May be chosen by both winners>
- Your choice for the next contest's rules (within reason)

Note that in the case of someone who already has a one-month advertisement on hold, if they win the one-and-a-half-month one here, it is entirely up to them to choose which order they use them in.

Attachment updated 20/08/15 02:57
« Last Edit: August 21, 2015, 01:56:16 PM by namida »
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Offline Crane

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2015, 06:08:33 AM »
My solution to "Safe Descent".

Note that "Cogopolis" requires the Clockwork tile-set, so if you don't have it installed, the game will crash.

Offline geoo

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2015, 11:13:22 AM »
Las Ranas Hermanas is solvable with any version 2015-01-25 or later. There will be a new version of lix out soon that will incidentally eliminate some potential backroutes.

Some notes: My level has a tight time limit, in the aim of eliminating at least some backroutes. Sorry to everyone for that.
So you should use a version of Lix that does not nuke the lixes when the time runs out, but closes the exit instead. This is to ensure the time limit is the same for everyone. If you use 2015-01-25 or newer you should be fine. But even if you find routes that exceed the time limit but otherwise would solve the level, I'd be interested in seeing them. This is because once the new Lix version is released, it will eliminate some backroutes. I might consider removing the time limit once that version is out.

Nepster: I just wanted to note. 2015-08-09 and later have physics changes like the new basher and digger. All versions between 2015-01-25 and 2015-07-07 however have the same single player physics. Replays recorded with any of these versions can be viewed with 2015-07-07. However replays recorded with 2015-07-07 will not be viewable with version 2015-06-08 or earlier, so I suggest players to use some version between 2015-01-25 and 2015-06-08 rather than 2015-07-07.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2015, 01:39:39 PM by geoo »

Offline namida

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2015, 12:30:18 PM »
Note that "Cogopolis" requires the Clockwork tile-set, so if you don't have it installed, the game will crash.

Recent versions of both the editor and NeoCustLemmix come with the Clockwork set (and the other three LPIV sets, for that matter) included.

Quote
Nepster: I just wanted to note. All versions between 2015-01-25 and 2015-07-07 have the same single player physics, while 2015-08-09 and later have physics changes like the new basher and digger. Replays recorded with any of these versions can be viewed with 2015-07-07. However replays recorded with 2015-07-07 will not be viewable with version 2015-06-08 or earlier, so I suggest players to use some version between 2015-01-25 and 2015-06-08 rather than 2015-07-07.

I think it's better not to be encouraging players to have lots of different versions set up, isn't it...? But Nepster did mention the physics changes in the *latest* version could be problematic; and since the level was designed before it was released, the note mentions the latest version at the time the level was designed.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2015, 12:36:03 PM by namida »
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Offline geoo

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2015, 01:43:16 PM »
Well all I'm saying is that it doesn't matter if you use 2015-01-25 or 2015-06-08, because they are mutually compatible in singleplayer. 2015-07-07 wasn't an official release so I discourage from using it for recording replays (for viewing replays it's not an issue).

Nepster discouraged using 2015-08-09 for his level, thus I suggest players to use 2015-01-25 or 2015-06-08.

For my level, it works perfectly fine and if you want consistency, players can use 2015-01-25 or 2015-06-08.
The release that will make a notable (positive) difference to the level isn't even out yet, so there's no point using the newer versions for my level at this point.

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2015, 02:17:52 PM »
Ok solved the NeoLemmix part and tried out the lix levels, but I need a break for today now.
Attached the solutions for the NeoLemmix levels and my best try (saving 33 Lix instead of the 34 required) for geoo's level. (Gotta get that last pesky Lix hopefully tomorrow)

Comments:

Safe Descent (bsmith):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Mind the Gap (Crane):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Cognopolis (DynaLem):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Parking Garage (Geoffster):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

House on a Hill (möbius):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Las Ranas Hermanas (geoo)  so far:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2015, 03:37:02 PM »
IchoTolot's level has a custom music file to accompany it. This should be placed in the same folder as CustLemmixNeo.exe.

I think it just must be in the same folder as the level itself, cause I can hear it with my CustNeoLemmix player and the music is only in the folder with the level.

Offline namida

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2015, 03:40:39 PM »
My thoughts:

bsmith's "Safe Descent" (click to show/hide)

Crane's "Mind the Gap" (click to show/hide)

Geoffster's "Parking Garage" (click to show/hide)

I haven't yet looked at any of the others beyond a quick glance.
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Offline Nepster

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2015, 03:46:23 PM »
Just to clarify the confusion with the Lix versions: There are two very different solutions that I know of.
- One requires the old basher/miner/digger-mechanics and will certainly not work in 2015-08-09. However it should be robust enough to work in any of the other versions (though I only checked it with 2015-06-08).
- The other solution is independent of the precise basher/miner/digger-mechanics and should does work as well in 2015-08-09. I haven't had time to confirm this yet, but will do so this evening.

EDIT: Solvability of Altruism with 2015-08-09 confirmed.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2015, 04:31:01 PM by Nepster »

Offline mobius

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2015, 05:59:30 PM »
I only solved one level so far, but all look very nice, and very tough.

Safe Decent:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

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Offline Nepster

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2015, 07:09:08 PM »
"Safe Descent" by bsmith (click to show/hide)

"Mind the gap!" by Crane (click to show/hide)

"Cogopolis" by DynaLem (click to show/hide)

"Parking Garage" by Geoffster (click to show/hide)

"Las Ranas Hermanas" by geoo (click to show/hide)


"House on a Hill" by möbius (click to show/hide)


Remark: All replays are recorded with NeoLemmix V1.35-C.

Offline namida

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2015, 10:35:25 PM »
Solved one more.

DynaLem's "Cogopolis" (click to show/hide)

By the way, I notice that so far, Rondo Alla Turca is a very common music choice in this contest. :O


EDIT: And one more!

Geoffster's "Parking Garage" (click to show/hide)


Very impressive levels so far. I think it's safe to say this was a very good choice for this contest's rules! :)
« Last Edit: August 11, 2015, 06:22:17 PM by namida »
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Offline Nepster

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2015, 05:07:18 PM »
Solutions for updated levels (except for "Parking Garage", where my first solution should still work).

"Safe Descent" by bsmith (click to show/hide)

"Mind the gap!" by Crane (click to show/hide)


Offline namida

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2015, 06:35:29 PM »
I had a look again at the three that have been updated; I'll get around to the ones I haven't yet looked at later today. :)

Updated my replay to Parking Garage in the above post; since the overall approach I used still works.

bsmith's "Safe Descent" (click to show/hide)

Crane's "Mind the Gap!" (click to show/hide)
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Offline namida

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2015, 10:04:54 PM »
And for the last two NeoLemmix ones...


mobius's "House on a Hill" (click to show/hide)

I'll get around to the Lix ones soon. :)
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Offline Geoffster

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2015, 01:49:42 AM »
My solution for Safe Descent v3 (with rr99)

Haven't solved the others yet.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2015, 02:33:38 AM by Geoffster »

Offline namida

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2015, 01:53:14 AM »
bsmith's "Safe Descent" (V3) (click to show/hide)
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Offline Crane

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2015, 11:38:48 AM »
Released version 3 of "Mind the gap!" - if anyone wants any clues... Nepster is the closest to my intended solution.

And here's my solution to "Parking Garage".  Some pretty nice tricks there!

Offline Crane

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2015, 12:03:51 PM »
Just managed to do "The Adventures of Lemdiana Jones".

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

"Don't call me Junior!" - not sure if the music fits the level, even if the snake designs are pretty cool, but it's still a nice tune to listen to!

Offline Crane

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2015, 03:55:39 PM »
I will admit that the second half of the level is mostly designed for the excuse of having 5 of everything (other than floaters, builders and diggers), with the main meat being the first half.  Still, I'm glad people like the beginning of the level!  I hope that my one-way arrows aren't making it messy.

Offline namida

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2015, 07:11:42 AM »
Nepster's "Altruism" (click to show/hide)

That leaves just geoo's level left to beat. I did have a quick look at it, and have no ideas; I haven't made any attempts at actually solving it yet though.
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Offline Nepster

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2015, 07:38:18 AM »
@namida: Lix has the "zzz"-button, which slows the game to about two frames per second. With a little experience this allows for almost all frame-precise actions (especially in combination with the pause-button).

Offline namida

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2015, 07:52:24 AM »
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. :)
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Offline namida

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2015, 02:53:42 AM »
bsmith's "Safe Descent" (V4) (click to show/hide)

I've had some more tries at geoo's level, but I haven't been able to solve it yet. It would appear that it either relies on very good timing, or some detail of Lix mechanics that I'm not fully aware of...
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Offline geoo

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2015, 10:13:02 PM »
Quote
I've had some more tries at geoo's level, but I haven't been able to solve it yet. It would appear that it either relies on very good timing, or some detail of Lix mechanics that I'm not fully aware of...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Btw, please remind me at the end of the playing phase to post my solution.

<V4> "Safe Descent" by bsmith (NeoLemmix)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
<V3> "Mind the gap!" by Crane (NeoLemmix)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
<V1> "Cogopolis" by DynaLem (NeoLemmix)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
<V2> "Parking Garage" by Geoffster (NeoLemmix)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
<V1> "The Adventures Of Lemdiana Jones" by IchoTolot (NeoLemmix)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
<V1> "House on a Hill" by mobius (NeoLemmix)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
<V1> "Altruism" by Nepster (Lix)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2015, 11:29:44 PM »
Ok more replays of updated versions!

Safe Descent:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Mind the Gap:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Parking Garage:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

lasranas:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

For Nepsters level: I looked over geoo's shoulder as he solved it (I also got his replay here), but it's his solution so it would be wrong from me to also post it.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2015, 10:31:22 AM by IchoTolot »

Offline Crane

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2015, 03:07:10 AM »
I feel like I've failed because of it being 'filler' rather than a challenge in itself. Yes, I focus on the negative - it's what I do and how I work. But I think I need to take a leave of absence; I'm sorry. Perfection or naught; nothing in between.

Offline geoo

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2015, 06:56:00 PM »
Filler might not be the right word, but you said it yourself, the second part was tacked on as an afterthought and when I read that in your post it immediately made sense to me. There is one somewhat tricky part to work out, namely, how do you turn the crowd at the right. But most of the skill placements fall into place because they can't go anywhere else. So the second part feels more like a set of little tasks than like another puzzle as a whole. I guess after the excellent first part that was a bit of a let-down to me, especially considering I'm a fan of short levels. The part left of the gap is small and dense of ideas, and the part right of the gap is quite big and spread out. The left part on its own stands as an excellent level to me.

If you're about perfection or naught, then you're gonna have a hard time because in reality there is no such thing as perfection. :)

Has anyone else tried Las Ranas Hermanas? Or is everyone wary of trying out Lix?

Offline Crane

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #28 on: August 18, 2015, 01:28:54 AM »
Oh, by the way IchoTolot, you posted the actual levels, not the replays.

Offline namida

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #29 on: August 18, 2015, 01:33:11 AM »
I'll just remind you of in the first level contest - you felt like giving up because of backroutes, but in the end, your level won the contest. :)
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Offline Crane

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #30 on: August 18, 2015, 01:45:34 AM »
You're right namida.  It is unfortunately part of my nature, and I apologise for my frustration being so visible to others - it's not really fair on them.  And I'm too passionate for my own good.

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #31 on: August 18, 2015, 10:32:10 AM »
Oh, by the way IchoTolot, you posted the actual levels, not the replays.

Ty, fixed that! Sometimes I've got my mind elsewhere................:-[

Offline namida

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #32 on: August 18, 2015, 03:25:38 PM »
I've tried more on Las Ranas Hermanas, but still no luck. Most of my attempts end up losing too many lemmings before they get anywhere useful.
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Offline namida

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #33 on: August 20, 2015, 02:59:50 PM »
Took me a while to solve this time, but...

Crane's "Mind the gap!" (V4) (click to show/hide)
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Offline Crane

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #34 on: August 20, 2015, 08:27:32 PM »
Not my intended solution, but nice one!  I wonder what others will find.

When it's over, I'll post my intended solution if no-one finds it.  A theme with my levels is that I try to avoid tricks and gimmicks and otherwise offer a very clean solution.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2015, 09:04:38 PM by Crane »

Offline Geoffster

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #35 on: August 21, 2015, 01:46:06 AM »
Here is my solution for Mind the Gap v4.

Crane's "Mind the gap!" (V4) (click to show/hide)

Edited by namida: The level had been attached to this post as well as the replay; removed it.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2015, 02:55:07 AM by namida »

Offline Crane

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #36 on: August 21, 2015, 03:07:42 AM »
Almost there with the intended solution - a couple of tricks in that replay are correct.  Well done Geoffster.  I think only one or two minor changes are needed now.  Yeah, that Climber is used to place that Blocker on the top left, although if you're able to do it without a Climber, I won't fault you for that!  Extra points at the end of the round!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: August 21, 2015, 03:17:41 AM by Crane »

Offline namida

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #37 on: August 23, 2015, 05:14:42 AM »
Update phase has now closed. Voting phase will open in a few days. :)
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Offline Crane

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #38 on: August 23, 2015, 06:15:42 AM »
Ah rats - I hoped to update my level one last time.  Oh well.  Nevertheless, here is the intended solution (as far as I know, it works in all versions of the level):


Offline geoo

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #6 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #39 on: August 24, 2015, 12:27:30 PM »
Attached is a screenshot of the latest version of my level and replay of my intended solution (should work with any version that has the new digger animation).