Author Topic: Lemmings Plus IV - Development Topic (Release in ~5 minutes!) (Read 36563 times)

namida · « **on:** April 15, 2015, 10:06:19 AM »

Release date confirmed!
Unless any major issues that need to be fixed before first release arise (ie: not merely backroutes - they can be fixed in an update if need be; but crashes or major glitches), Lemmings Plus IV will be publicly released at midday UTC, June 3rd.

Once the release time passes, it'll be downloadable here: http://www.lemmingsforums.net/lpiv_download.php
Until then, that page will tell you exactly how long is left until release.

Lemmings Plus IV is confirmed and on the way!

I know I said I wasn't going to make any more Lemmings Plus games, but I just couldn't resist.

So, Lemmings Plus IV continues the normal pattern of what a main-series Lemmings Plus game is - a large level pack with new graphic sets! The target is 80 levels here, spread across four ranks. The overall aim for difficulty curve is similar to that of Lemmings Plus III, though with perhaps a steeper start and a smoother middle.

Smooth - As usual, starting off relatively easy. This would be comparable to late-Timid or perhaps early-Dodgy from LPIII.
Bumpy - Gets a little bit harder. I'd say still within Dodgy territory.
Twisted - Aiming for a similar difficulty to Rough with this one. Still relatively short, but quite challenging levels.
Insane - This one's intended to be of a similar standard to LPIII's Fierce. Expect multitasking, long and complex levels, rare tricks, and maybe even the odd tight time limit. Good luck.

There will not be any secret levels or gimmick/frenzy levels this time. There will be VGASPEC levels, ~~but they'll just use the regular musics instead of having special ones - only the graphics will be special~~ nope, I decided to give them special musics too.

The new Lemmings Plus IV graphic sets have all been revealed now. In the order they were revealed in, they are Candy, Space, Clockwork and Wasteland. For the first time in Lemmings Plus, these are not 32-color palette-based graphic sets, but full 24-bit color!

Lemmings Plus IV will make use of the new NeoLemmix skills, which have previously been seen in Holiday Lemmings Plus and Lemmings Plus Omega. NeoLemmix object types are also used, although so far no new ones are being used apart from moving decorative (no effect) objects. As Lemmings Plus Omega did, Lemmings Plus IV will mostly be avoiding time limits, though they will be used on some levels, usually as one of the major obstacles rather than an incidental added challenge.

As far as repeats go, it'll be the same as LPII / LPIII - generally no repeats, though there may be an occasional set of connected levels (like Cunning 1 / 7 / 13 from LPII), and there will be a once-per-rank level. However, there won't be large numbers of more-restricted repeats of earlier X-of-everything levels like LPI and LPO had.

Lemmings Plus IV will have talismans (achievements) from the first public release. There's also two new object types - moving background objects (harmless animations, but they move instead of staying in one place), and single-use traps (like normal traps, but they only work once); one graphic set also features splat pads and antisplat pads which existed in Cheapo (and thus in some converted-from-Cheapo graphic sets) but have not previously existed in any made-for-NeoLemmix graphic sets.

Like in LPO, time limits will be fairly rare - I did a count, and out of the 80 levels, only 9 levels have time limits (with 1 further level not having a time limit, but having a talisman for beating it in under a certain time). Two of these have time limits so high that they're negligable; it's because they're iterations of the once-per-rank level, and the time limit is less in each iteration.

A preview video has been uploaded.

The public demo of Lemmings Plus IV has been released:
Demo Download Link

Attached images: Smooth 1 and Twisted 1, the first two levels to be revealed.

namida · « **Reply #1 on:** April 15, 2015, 10:06:25 AM »

Graphic Set Completion

Candy: 100%
Space: 100%
Clockwork: 100%
Wasteland: 100%

Level Completion

Smooth: 20 of 20
Bumpy: 20 of 20
Twisted: 20 of 20
Insane: 20 of 20

607 · « **Reply #2 on:** April 15, 2015, 04:59:49 PM »

Nice!
I haven't played any custom levels at all yet, but I think Lemmings Plus is definitely going to be the first custom pack I'm going to be playing, and it's nice hearing there's going to be even more!

GigaLem · « **Reply #3 on:** April 15, 2015, 08:57:56 PM »

new customizable skill bar?
Heck to the yes

namida · « **Reply #4 on:** April 16, 2015, 12:42:03 AM »

LPIII / Omega also had a custom skill bar graphic, though it was different from this one.

If you're meaning the color of the text, then that also worked like that in LPIII / Omega too. The color is based on the graphic set; eg. in the Sky set it was a light grey, while in the Circuit set it was green. The same thing also applies to floater/glider parachutes; they change color based on the graphic set too.

namida · « **Reply #5 on:** April 16, 2015, 04:22:59 AM »

I made the edges of the blocks in the "space" tileset stand out a bit more (I'm really thinking I'm going to rename that one, tbh), as well as finally added diagonal blocks.

By the way, feel free to give suggestions for graphic sets.

Obviously I can't use all of them, and not promising I'll use any of them, but never hurts to have some extra ideas.

GigaLem · « **Reply #6 on:** April 16, 2015, 09:15:09 PM »

City, Mayan, Emerald, Kart, Peaceful
Those are my ideas
Choose any two that sounds interesting to you (I would love to see a Emerald tile set)
If you i can probably contribute a few levels or level ideas using the new sets

namida · « **Reply #7 on:** April 16, 2015, 10:12:27 PM »

I'm not sure exactly what the last two would refer to in terms of graphic sets. The first three could be worth considering...

As for level designs, I prefer to make the Lemmings Plus games' levels myself. Of course, you are more than welcome to use the graphic sets for levels in your own packs once they're released.

namida · « **Reply #8 on:** April 17, 2015, 04:14:34 AM »

Some more new Space graphic set stuff!

Rocket engines - guess it's starting to become a bit more space-y after all!

Also, teleporters.

namida · « **Reply #9 on:** April 18, 2015, 04:51:07 AM »

I've put up a short preview video showing one level each in the Candy and Space graphic sets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaK_t_a5ITc

namida · « **Reply #10 on:** April 19, 2015, 05:47:46 AM »

Another one of the new graphic sets. Haven't picked a name for it yet.

(Just for the record for those who are worried about spoilers - I assure you, if you try what you see in the screenshot on this level, you will not complete it.)

IchoTolot · « **Reply #11 on:** April 19, 2015, 09:25:54 AM »

Quote from: namida on April 19, 2015, 05:47:46 AM

Another one of the new graphic sets. Haven't picked a name for it yet.

From the looks of it, the first thing that comes to my mind is "Clockwork".

namida · « **Reply #12 on:** April 19, 2015, 11:37:10 AM »

Just made the first level that's ended up in the Insane rating.

607 · « **Reply #13 on:** April 19, 2015, 12:19:18 PM »

Oh, that looks very cool!

mobius · « **Reply #14 on:** April 19, 2015, 12:39:16 PM »

I like the mechanical/clockwork set a lot!

The space set: Do you like it that dark? I would personally make it at least a little bit brighter. As of now it's kind of difficult to see imo.

namida · « **Reply #15 on:** April 19, 2015, 12:56:37 PM »

Personally, I don't find it too difficult. We'll see how people find it when a demo is released, and if too many think it's too dark, I could brighten it up a bit.

namida · « **Reply #16 on:** April 20, 2015, 02:33:10 AM »

I'm going to stick with 4 graphic sets for this one. However, I might also consider doing VGASPEC type levels again - no choice yet on their themes. I also haven't picked any idea for the 4th graphic set yet, though most likely I'll go for something more rough-edged (though not to the same extent as the Sky set from LPIII was).

It would also seem I'm getting very good at balancing my style usage. Of the three styles that exist so far; the levels so far are 6 each in two styles, and 5 in the third. I hadn't even been paying very close attention to how much I was using each one; this is the first time I've counted.

namida · « **Reply #17 on:** April 21, 2015, 07:03:57 PM »

Another new level. Possibly the most challenging one so far (assuming no backroutes exist that I haven't found yet; which is a very poor assumption to make).

100 lemmings, 100% required
3 Climbers, 3 Builders, 5 Bashers, 3 Miners, 3 Diggers
Release Rate 99
No time limit

(Uploaded an updated image with some backroute fixes as well as a little bit of extra decorative elements.)

mobius · « **Reply #18 on:** April 22, 2015, 01:12:22 AM »

I'm anxious to make levels with that mechanical set.

What program do you use to draw the images?

I've been wanting to get one of those programs that makes simple patterns and textures. Do you know of any?

namida · « **Reply #19 on:** April 22, 2015, 03:48:01 AM »

Thought of a potential backroute to that above level... but also thought of a potential way to fix it (if it does in fact work out).

Anyway, my older graphic sets (up to and including the LPIII sets) were done in plain old MS Paint (the pre-Win7 version of it, not the awful new one). The Horror set, and these LPIV sets, are done in Paint.NET. No special pattern/texturing program involved; it's all done by hand. I make extensive use of the "Add Noise", "Gausian Blur", "Unfocus" and resizing operations to get the appearances you see in the end product, in addition to a mixture of antialiased and non-antialiased use of the regular tools. For getting the slightly-lighter/darker edges on certain sides, I most often use non-antialiased, 1 pixel thick black / white lines (for darker and lighter respectively) on their own layer, then set this layer to be almost-transparent (usually an opacity of either 15, 31 or 47).

It's also quite common for me to store "template" pieces that aren't actually used in the graphic set (or images that are used on several pieces, such as the screws used on the wood planks as well as the steel blocks in the Clockwork set), usually in Paint.NET's native format rather than PNG (so that layers are preserved).

I'd say that while the amount of work that goes into these is a fairly decent amount, the difficulty isn't really that high. It's more a matter of patience than anything else. Making enough good levels is by far the harder part of making a new Lemmings Plus pack.

namida · « **Reply #20 on:** April 23, 2015, 05:30:37 AM »

So, it's probably about time to start talking about demos.

Anyone who enters the current Level Design Contest gets early access to a demo; the public release will probably come 4-5 days after the contest demo is sent out. It doesn't matter how well you do in the contest; just that you submit an entry that's within the rules. If you get the demo through the contest, you also get some extra content that won't be in the public demo (but will, of course, be in the full version).

The public demo will contain 3 levels each from Smooth and Bumpy, 2 from Twisted, and 1 from Insane. Those who get a demo through the contest can choose for their extra content, either (a) one extra level each from Twisted and Insane, or (b) all four iterations of the once-per-rank level.

I've already mostly picked the levels to use, though I'm not 100% sure yet on the Bumpy levels - the main reason being that all three I've currently got in mind use the same graphic set, so if I make another level in a different set that seems demo-suitable, I'll probably use that instead of one of the current ones.

namida · « **Reply #21 on:** April 23, 2015, 01:09:53 PM »

I've come up with a once-per-rank level now. The concept behind this one is the same basic layout, but some of the exact details change between each version of it - for example, in one of them there's an extra wall, in another one the one-way field points in the opposite direction. All versions have the same lemming count, and a 100% save requirement. The time limit gets exponentially less each time (with the 4th iteration setting a new Lemmings Plus record for lowest time limit), while the release rate increases linearly. The number of skills reduces each time from 10 of each, to 5, then 3, then 1; in all four cases you've got four different skills, but which skills varies between iterations. (As awesome as the idea of the skillsets all being mutually exclusive is - and that could work since there's 16 skills to choose from - I didn't go with this in the end. So some skills appear in more than one iteration, although there is no skill that appears in all four iterations.)

And, I also decided to give the once-per-rank level its own unique music. In a way Lemmings Plus II did this as well, but in that case it was more a side effect of that the once-per-rank level was a Frenzy level, and no other levels were; this time it's been done fully intentionally.

By the way - still no final decisions as to the last graphic set, so feel free to throw more ideas at me.

Preferably those that'd work well for a semi-rough-edged graphic set (think similar to the Snow, Tree or Martian styles, in terms of roughness - not to the level of roughness that Rock, Purple or Sky would be).

mobius · « **Reply #22 on:** April 23, 2015, 10:51:09 PM »

how about...

wasteland or nuclear fallout. [I imagine dead trees and maybe toxic labeled barrels and broken appliances.

temple ruins [this would be a good one to have both straight and rough pieces.]

underwater -no ideas on actual pieces might look like just sounds interesting. "water" trap could be vines or those heat vents under the real ocean.

namida · « **Reply #23 on:** April 24, 2015, 01:30:00 AM »

Wasteland could be an interesting idea. Post-nuclear would also be an excellent graphic set to use radiation objects in (we'll ignore the technicality that in reality, such radiation would be invisible; we already have visible radiation in 3 or 4 other graphic sets after all

). Temple ruins could work well too. I'll keep both of these in mind.

I don't see underwater working so well for Lemmings. It wouldn't really have an underwater feel to it without an appropriate background, some kind of slow-motion effect, etc - these are beyond what NeoLemmix currently supports. I'd also imagine that a lot of the terrain in such would be sand, which would make it quite similar to the Desert style.

namida · « **Reply #24 on:** April 25, 2015, 09:25:43 AM »

Development is now past half-way!

Also, the Clockwork set now has a triggered trap.

I felt these were a bit underused in LPIII - only one graphic set had them at all. It remains to be seen how much use I find for them, but so far two graphic sets have them (Candy also has one, which has been used in a few levels).

namida · « **Reply #25 on:** April 26, 2015, 05:40:00 AM »

I've started sending out the contest-entry demos, even though entries haven't closed yet. Any further contest entries are still eligible for a demo, of course (with the choice of extra content).

General public release demo will be released in 4 days.

Wafflem · « **Reply #26 on:** April 26, 2015, 06:00:49 AM »

Just wanted to visit briefly to see how things are going, and it looks like there'll be a plethora of exciting fangames (including this one!).

I'm really excited for the Candy style the most, not sure why it didn't get any votes when only one picture of it has been revealed, which isn't fair to me, hence why I voted for that.

I'm not sure if you should use VGASPECs; I feel that they could work better as secret levels.

If you need more graphic set ideas, Minim posted about them in the Custom Ideas thread, which I've quoted here:

Quote from: Minim on April 17, 2015, 09:29:31 AM

Gulf: A War-based tile set, maybe with Sentry Guns and Rifles as a trap.
Music: Speakers make great vertical walls! A drumkit may make for a challenging terrain piece.
Pirate: Similar to the beach theme, but involving Pirate ships.
Time: Literally involves clocks, with the alarm clock as a trap, although I'm not sure how you can make challenging levels without using several grandfather clocks...
Art: Now that namida has found a way to expand the number of colors, he could experiment very well with the art set! I mean, easels, paintbrushes and water is the order of the day here.

The Art idea could work very well for the semi-rough-based terrain.

I have an idea too: Farm - wood fences, barns meadows, haystacks, fields, vegetables, and farm animals (the animals have to be the moving background objects). The chickens (or any animal) can be the triggered trap (eating lemmings). Updrafts also work very well here. The haystack can also be the antisplat pad.

Can't wait for the demo!

namida · « **Reply #27 on:** April 26, 2015, 06:05:19 AM »

The LPIV Preview Video show a level (the same one as in the pic, though) using the Candy graphic set, as well as a level using the Space graphic set. By that logic, the Clockwork graphic set actually has the least revealed.

However, the demo contains levels in all three graphic sets.

Regarding the 4th graphic set, I actually have somewhat of an idea for it, though I'm not completely sure yet about how well it'll work in practice.

namida · « **Reply #28 on:** April 26, 2015, 09:31:51 AM »

I can confirm that there'll be a new object type (aside from the scrolling background object). What exactly it is though will remain a surprise, though I will say it's very closely related to an object type that has existed since the very original versions of Lemmings. Only the 4th graphic set will contain this object. The second level in the game will be a tutorial level for this object.

Speaking of which, I've decided on the 4th graphic set, and actually made very rapid progress in creating it. However, until release (or at least for now), I'm keeping secret exactly what it is, though I will say it's something that was suggested either here or in the tileset ideas topic.

GigaLem · « **Reply #29 on:** April 28, 2015, 01:08:21 AM »

Project reached 64%
Time to Get "N" the game

namida · « **Reply #30 on:** April 28, 2015, 08:44:55 AM »

Indeed. Development's probably going to also going to start speeding up a bit from here - had the bae staying over this week, which generally means less time spent on Lemmings; on top of that graphic sets are almost finished and that's often the slower part for me. I wouldn't be surprised if it's ready for pre-release testing within a week or two at the most; though I'm not saying that's a set release date.

namida · « **Reply #31 on:** April 28, 2015, 07:43:24 PM »

My entry into the level design contest uses the Candy set; as per contest rules I've had to include a copy of the Candy graphic set with the entry. As such, I'm now generally making the Candy graphic set available for anyone to use.

The latest version of NeoCustLemmix already includes a copy of it. Here's the file so that it can be used with the editor (put it in the "styles/NeoLemmix" folder); from the next update I'll include it there by default. Other LPIV graphic sets will be made available at some point after LPIV's release.

GigaLem · « **Reply #32 on:** April 28, 2015, 09:38:37 PM »

I might make a short level pack and take a break from GigaLems 1.5 & 2

namida · « **Reply #33 on:** April 28, 2015, 11:30:58 PM »

Just made one of those levels that takes insane amounts of testing and revising to get right - but it's a level that I feel well and truly fits near the end of Insane.

Probably full of backroutes at this stage, but I need sleep at the moment so I'll investigate that more later.

GigaLem · « **Reply #34 on:** April 28, 2015, 11:38:07 PM »

I shall Call it
"Candy Coated GigaLems"
4 ratings 48 levels
and the ratings are
Sweet, Crunchy, Fizzy, & Sour

namida · « **Reply #35 on:** April 28, 2015, 11:41:16 PM »

Hm... for 48 levels, you might want to use more than just one graphic set, especially with ones like the Candy set that are designed for a game that has more than one set. The Candy set is in particular quite limited in terms of objects (although it does have a decent variety of terrain styles - the very-rough-edged sprinkles, the rounded lollipops, etc); outside the in-almost-every-set types, the only objects it has are a splitter and a triggered trap.

Personally, I even felt the one graphic set for Doomsday Lemmings to be slightly limiting - and that's it despite it being specifically designed for a game with only one graphic set, and as such, having more variety of terrain and objects than an average set would. There again, who knows - if you think you've got enough ideas for it, by all means, go for it!

It might be better to discuss your packs in your own topic, though...

GigaLem · « **Reply #36 on:** April 28, 2015, 11:44:31 PM »

That time will come when i make the logo

namida · « **Reply #37 on:** April 29, 2015, 01:48:33 PM »

About 10 8 hours until the public demo will be available!

In other news, I've begun working on the final level. It's a freaking behemoth in terms of raw size, though probably not the hardest level (IMO, out of the levels I've made so far, Insane 18 would be the hardest, with Insane 16 as a very close second). It's not my tallest or widest level so far (not entirely sure about widest; tallest would be "Drop Them Lems" from LPOmega), but I think it has the largest total area, since most of my other very-tall or very-wide levels are usually small in the other dimension; whereas this one is fairly large in both. So far (and it's not complete yet), 541 terrain pieces and 35 objects (of which only one is a no-effect object).

namida · « **Reply #38 on:** April 29, 2015, 06:15:56 PM »

Alright, rather than rely on me being at the computer and paying attention to the time at the exact point (or as close as possible to it) that the demo is releasing, I've set up a link which in the meantime tells you exactly how long is remaining until release - and once the demo is released, this link will automagically act as a download link rather than a countdown.

http://www.lemmingsforums.net/lpiv_demo.php

So, no need to worry about waiting for me to upload it even once it hits midnight - as soon as it hits it, you can use that link to download it.

607 · « **Reply #39 on:** April 29, 2015, 06:47:52 PM »

Quote from: namida on April 29, 2015, 06:15:56 PM

Alright, rather than rely on me being at the computer and paying attention to the time at the exact point (or as close as possible to it) that the demo is releasing, I've set up a link which in the meantime tells you exactly how long is remaining until release - and once the demo is released, this link will automagically act as a download link rather than a countdown.

http://www.lemmingsforums.net/lpiv_demo.php

So, no need to worry about waiting for me to upload it even once it hits midnight - as soon as it hits it, you can use that link to download it.

Oh, that's very cool! I'll be asleep at that time, though, so...

But I like how you did that.

namida · « **Reply #40 on:** April 29, 2015, 06:58:10 PM »

No worries - the demo isn't going to disappear (until the full version is released).

namida · « **Reply #41 on:** April 30, 2015, 12:00:52 AM »

AND the demo is now out!

Enjoy!

namida · « **Reply #42 on:** April 30, 2015, 02:00:55 AM »

So, here's the first thing I'll reveal from the 4th graphic set (the demo doesn't contain any levels in it; though it does have levels in all of the other three).

Attached is an image of the exit.

In terms of level counts, I'd say this graphic set is catching up nicely to the others, though I haven't done a proper count for quite some time now.

Wafflem · « **Reply #43 on:** April 30, 2015, 03:45:12 PM »

I wonder what this graphic set is. Judging by the shape of the exit, the green stuff and the rather crooked torches, it could either be the wastelands, temple ruins, art, farm, gulf war, rainforest, or swamp. Hm...

namida · « **Reply #44 on:** April 30, 2015, 05:43:59 PM »

Based on feedback received so far about the demo, I'm considering moving "Platform Panic" to Insane, and "Unhealthy Diet" to Twisted. The latter does have a backroute, but even one person who found the intended solution said they felt it was too easy for Insane.

I also finally wrote a quick snippet of code (or rather, slightly modified the one I use to quickly output a list of level names for use in the official game voteoffs) to count up the number of levels in each graphic set.

Results so far:

Candy: 8
Space: 13
Clockwork: 9
4th graphic set: 9

If you take into account that the Space graphic set is used for the once-per-rank level, and thus only count that once instead of 4 times, that'd be 10 space levels; meaning all graphic sets are used quite evenly so far.

Though maybe I should make a few Candy levels next, before it falls behind too much...

namida · « **Reply #45 on:** April 30, 2015, 07:21:28 PM »

Just hit the halfway mark in terms of level count (40 levels).

Here's the 40th level to be made, currently placed at Insane 6.

"Tower of Confection"
5 Lemmings, 100% required
RR 90, no time limit
Skillset: 4 Climbers, 4 Platformers, 4 Builders, 4 Bashers

You may notice the layout slightly resembles one of the LPIII levels. While it is indeed somewhat inspired by this level, it has plenty of difference too, and is a lot harder.

namida · « **Reply #46 on:** May 02, 2015, 10:03:16 AM »

So, how about some more information on this new object...

Basically, the new object type is a variant of the existing triggered traps. The difference from these is that unlike current triggered traps, which are one-lemming-at-a-time but can be repeatedly used; the new ones are single-use. That is, after they kill one lemming, they're no longer a danger.

The exact nature of the object I've used for this will remain secret for now, but that's the function of it.

That aside, the 4th graphic set will also contain splat pads and antisplat pads; these are object types originally featured in Cheapo, that haven't previously been used in NeoLemmix outside of graphic sets converted from Cheapo.

Also, as I mentioned I was considering, I've moved "Platform Panic" into Insane, and "Unhealthy Diet" into Twisted. They didn't directly swap positions (Platform Panic is one level before where Unhealthy Diet was, while Unhealty Diet is a few levels later than Platform Panic was), but they did swap ranks; so that still leaves the demos with the same number of levels from each rank based on their final positions (if none of the others get moved).

namida · « **Reply #47 on:** May 03, 2015, 02:38:08 AM »

I made a slight, and hopefully very welcome, addition to the Space graphic set. Look by the teleporters.

None of the other graphic sets contain teleporters, so it's only the Space set that got this change.

namida · « **Reply #48 on:** May 03, 2015, 03:26:12 AM »

So, just passed the 70% completion mark! Also, for the first time, Insane is the furthest ahead in terms of number of levels created! (This is quite a common pattern in my level packs - often, the last rank hangs behind for quite a while, with other ranks often being 30% or more completed before the final rank even gets its first level, but then it overtakes towards the end, with the last level to be made often being in one of the lowest ranks).

Bumpy is really falling behind a bit though, especially since there's one level in there I'm considering moving to Twisted...

namida · « **Reply #49 on:** May 03, 2015, 05:00:49 AM »

Since we're getting close to completion, it's probably time to start looking for people interested in testing. If you're interested, post here or drop me a PM.

As usual, I'm hoping for 3-4 testers, of varied skill levels, and it'll be on a first-in-first-served basis, though those who've tested previous packs of mine (especially those who've contributed a lot to the testing efforts) will have extra priority if they're interested.

Testers will (obviously) get early access to the game, as well as their name in the credits; main expectation is solution replays (to weed out backroutes), though feedback in relation to the difficulty curve is also very much appreciated.

I can also say that at this point, I'm ruling out secret / gimmick / frenzy levels of any kind. All levels will be regular levels; though as the demo shows, new NeoLemmix skills and object types are most certianly being used; as is vertical scrolling (which didn't appear in any demo levels, but has been seen in some level preview images I've posted). I'll also confirm that there are going to be VGASPEC levels, most likely at a rate of one per rank, though I might have less than this.

I'll also give some more previews of the 4th graphic set. Here's an entire level in it, although it's the level that least shows off the theme of the graphic set (as you may recall, I said I planned on it being a somewhat rough-edged graphic set, while this level is almost entirely using the straight-edged pieces).

Still, it may provide some clues.

607 · « **Reply #50 on:** May 03, 2015, 06:28:23 AM »

Wow, you're making fast progress!
I'm really looking forward to being able to use the clockwork tileset!

Wafflem · « **Reply #51 on:** May 03, 2015, 12:19:06 PM »

Hm, that 4th tileset could either be Gulf war or Wasteland/Post-Nuclear Fallout (the former one that Minim suggested, the latter one that mobius suggested).

It's an interesting style, and it looks like a mix of the Metal Style and the Lab Style (considering how one of your levels, Breezy 20 of Lemmings Plus Omega, is called "The Nuclear Plant"). I can't wait to see what else this style offers.

For the new type of trap, will mechanics still work on it?

namida · « **Reply #52 on:** May 03, 2015, 12:21:11 PM »

Quote from: DynaLem on May 03, 2015, 12:19:06 PM

For the new type of trap, will mechanics still work on it?

Yes; although I haven't (at least so far) made any levels that rely on this.

LJLPM · « **Reply #53 on:** May 03, 2015, 05:59:01 PM »

The new tileset is very cool: well done!

namida · « **Reply #54 on:** May 05, 2015, 05:41:29 AM »

Just hit 75% overall completion! Seems to be coming along at a similar pace to LPIII (for the record, I'd been working on LPIV for about a week and a half, maybe two weeks, before I made this topic) - I don't think I'll ever make another large pack as quickly as I made LPII (for those who weren't around during it's development; from the beginning to the first full-game release took about 3 weeks), but I'd say this is a decent speed.

There's also a final level for every rank, now - Bumpy's one was made ages ago, Insane's about a week ago, Smooth's a few days back, and the hitting-75%-mark-level was Twisted's final level.

So, as a celebration of this mark... here's a couple of far more typical levels in the 4th graphic set!

Those who guessed Wasteland were correct!
Like in the Lab graphic set, the "water" in this graphic set is actually acid (or from a technical point of view, a fire object).
And if you look closely in the first pic, you'll notice a couple of small landmines (underneath the hanging sign towards the right). These are the single-activation traps.

Also - regarding VGASPEC levels. I find it quite difficult to come up with particularly challenging ones, so I might not have one in Insane (it depends if I come up with a good idea). The other three ranks will have them (one per rank), but probably no special music for them this time.

namida · « **Reply #55 on:** May 05, 2015, 10:13:55 AM »

All graphic sets are now completed!

Nothing but levels from here on out.

Akseli · « **Reply #56 on:** May 06, 2015, 07:37:53 PM »

My demo solutions.

Platform Panic was the hardest one for me. I'm excited about the Clockwork and the 4th graphic sets, they look pretty cool!

namida · « **Reply #57 on:** May 07, 2015, 10:31:44 AM »

Thanks!

Feedback:

Smooth 1 - Pretty open ended here. I see a clear preference for the classic skills here (eg. stopping the digger with a builder, despite having walkers available).

Smooth 2 - This is the... not "intended" as such (as it's a *somewhat* open level), but the first solution I thought of.

Smooth 3 - Nicely done! I haven't seen it solved that way before. Your solution could also be fairly easily adapted to save 100%, I think.

Bumpy 1 - Fairly sure that's the *only* way to solve this one.

Bumpy 2 - You found the same backroute as Nepster did. It'll be fixed in the full game.
Bumpy 3 - Yep, this solution is fine. There is another, more complicated one, but I'm fine with this one too.

Twisted 1 - You got the intended solution on this one.

Twisted 2 - This one too.

Insane 1 - I really like your solution, though it isn't the intended one. Sadly, the fix for a backroute Nepster found will also make this solution not work...

About Platform Panic being the hardest - this has been a very consistent response. I didn't find it quite so hard myself, but based on the feedback, it's been moved to Insane for the full game. Likewise, Unhealthy Diet has been moved back to Twisted.

namida · « **Reply #58 on:** May 09, 2015, 03:57:09 PM »

Been a bit slow the last couple of days (mostly due to working on the new Talismans feature in NeoLemmix), but the pace is starting to pick up again.

Also, Twisted has now taken the lead again for most levels complete, as well as being the first rank to reach 75%.

Current graphic set counts:

Candy - 13 (EDIT: 14, just made another one)
Space - 15
Clockwork - 14
Wasteland - 13

I have noticed that I probably need to make more use of pre-placed lemmings; there's only a single level in the entire game that contains one, and that level is a one-lemming level... time to think of some preplaced lemming puzzles, it'd seem! I have made some use of locked exits and pickup skills, and there's a couple of levels using splitters too. I haven't used radiation at all yet, even though two of the graphic sets do contain it... Of course, making good levels is more important than using every feature, but if I can do both, that's even better again.

Wafflem · « **Reply #59 on:** May 10, 2015, 02:46:11 PM »

Are there also levels that use slowfreeze, anti-blocker fields and any of the other converted Cheapo objects?

namida · « **Reply #60 on:** May 10, 2015, 03:07:06 PM »

The only object types used that haven't been used before (either due to being Cheapo conversions or entirely new) are the moving backgrounds, single-use traps, splat pads and antisplat pads. There's also no slowfreeze (but there are radiation objects in two graphic sets). Of course, if I come up with a level design that would need slowfreeze, there's no reason I can't add it to one of the graphic sets. I may also consider adding a few more object types to some graphic sets before releasing them for general use, even if I don't use them myself. (They already all contain secret level triggers, even though I don't plan to make use of them.)

namida · « **Reply #61 on:** May 16, 2015, 02:42:05 PM »

So, unless I do come up with another idea for a VGASPEC, as well as a sufficiently challenging level to go with it, it looks like we're done for VGASPECs (as I mentioned before; Insane probably won't have one. However, if I come up with another one that's at least Twisted-worthy, the current Twisted one could be worthy of a position in early-Insane if I put it between two hard levels; and VGASPEC levels have generally been easier than others around them anyway). But I did decide in the end to give them custom musics.

The latest one re-uses a trick that appeared in one of the Moonwalk levels of LPIII Bonus Pack; I quite like this trick and those who don't like (or couldn't solve) gimmick levels won't have seen it there, so now it's being used in a non-gimmick level. Slightly different execution, of course; but the same basic idea. (The trick isn't the whole level; just a small part of it.)

namida · « **Reply #62 on:** May 19, 2015, 06:06:27 PM »

After more consideration, I did decide to move the Twisted VGASPEC level to Insane. Not so much because of it itself; but because the Bumpy one I felt was too hard for Bumpy, so I moved that to Twisted. The one that was in Twisted is still harder, so moving it to Bumpy wouldn't've made much sense, thus it ended up in Insane. So, end result; every rank will have one, and Bumpy doesn't have one yet.

Also, Bumpy's fallen back below the 15-levels-complete mark, while Insane is now a level closer to completion (and packs always seem to come along faster when the later ranks are more complete

).

~~Interestingly, both Twisted and Insane's VGASPEC levels are at the same level number.~~ No, they're not. My bad; I was confusing where one used to be with where it is now.

As a point of interest, the current unfilled level slots now are:
Smooth: 3, 6, 9, 13, 16
Bumpy: 2, 5, 11, 12, 14, 17
Twisted: 9, 17
Insane: 10, 12, 15, 17

Current graphic set counts are:
Candy: 16
Space: 17
Clockwork: 15
Wasteland: 15

Of the VGASPEC levels so far, two use the Wasteland graphic set for objects, while one uses Clockwork. Wouldn't be able to say what the fourth is going to use, though it will most likely be one of those two (due to their smaller exits than Space and Candy). The once-per-rank level is a Space level, which may be one reason why it's in the lead.

Aside from those unfilled level slots, there are currently ~~two~~ three levels that have backroutes I'm aware of, both of which are in Insane; as well as one minor graphical issue on one level (also in Insane). There's one further Insane level where I found a different solution from my intended one, but I feel it's similar in complexity so I'm happy to keep both provided no other backroutes show up that can't be fixed without also breaking the second solution here.

namida · « **Reply #63 on:** May 20, 2015, 11:44:22 AM »

Just like to put out the call for those who are interested in pre-release testing again. I'll go through my PMs to double-check if I've forgotten any, but off the top of my head, I remember two people offering. While obviously that's better than zero - and both have tested past packs of mine so I know they do a great job - it'd be nice to have more. Drop me a PM, or post here, if you're interested.

I would actually like, if possible, to get at least one person who hasn't tested any past Lemmings Plus packs, to see if their approaches and/or opinions on difficulty differ from those who are more used to my style of level design.

If you're wondering what'd be involved, it's basically that I ask you to play part of the game (generally, one difficulty rank, or possibly the second half of one rank and the first half of the following one), and send me replays of your solution (or best attempt) at each level, as well as some feedback on how difficult you found each level. Of course, you're perfectly welcome to play other parts of the game too, so in some ways one benefit is getting earlier access than everyone else.

namida · « **Reply #64 on:** May 20, 2015, 03:00:58 PM »

So, here's a level I just made for late-Insane. Those of you who are fairly familiar with the previous Lemmings Plus packs might be able to guess the stats and skillset for this one.

EDIT: So, we're now at the point where Twisted is only one level away from completion. Always problematic when the second-highest rank is the one that gets finished first, because that means I've now got to try and make all levels either ultra-hard or a bit on the easy side. As a saving grace, there are a few levels in Twisted that could go either way, so can always be bumped up to Insane if I make another level that clearly belongs in Twisted and nowhere else. (This would require moving some of the early-Insane levels to later in the rank most likely, but likewise, there's a few there that could possibly be moved to a later position if need be.)

EDIT: Also, past the 90% mark now!!!

Came up with another Insane level.

One more Twisted and two more Insane to go, then it's just easy / semi-easy levels (which aren't too difficult to make). And, one more VGASPEC level, since I still don't have one for Bumpy...

One thing that does bother me a bit is that out of the entire pack so far, there's only a single level that uses the Disarmer (formerly Mechanic) skill, and it's very close to the end... :/ I guess I'll have to come up with a few more levels using it; I don't want to have it in just a single level, but even more so I don't want to get rid of that level as IMO it's one of the best levels in the pack, and it would not work at all without the Disarmer.

GigaLem · « **Reply #65 on:** May 21, 2015, 12:42:52 AM »

so whats this "Testers wanted" thing about?

namida · « **Reply #66 on:** May 21, 2015, 08:11:56 AM »

It's explained literally two posts above your message...

namida · « **Reply #67 on:** May 21, 2015, 09:57:55 AM »

So, I've kept count of the graphic set usage across the whole game for quite a while now, but I only just now checked their usage within each rank seperately. Turns out that so far, Smooth and Insane are fairly balanced, while Twisted is a bit skewed against the Candy set, and Bumpy has almost as many Candy levels as every other graphic set combined. O_O Overall for the whole game, at this point there's 18 levels in each graphic set, except for Wasteland which has 16.

Anyway, at this point, it looks like the testing phase will begin within the next day or two. Only need one more level each for Twisted and Insane now (of which I have an idea for the Insane one, and if nessecary, a level in Bumpy that can be moved to Twisted, so less pressure to make a hard one), then all that's left is filling out the lower ranks, plus a couple of fixes to backroutes I'm aware of.

EDIT: AAAAND Insane is complete!

Also, I've got four people who've offered to test, which I think will be enough.

EDIT: Twisted is now finished too, and Bumpy is only one level away from being finished.

Still need 4 more for Smooth, but I can easily pump out 4 lowest-difficulty levels in virtually no time at all.

namida · « **Reply #68 on:** May 21, 2015, 01:52:27 PM »

AAAND development is finished!

The four volunteers for testing have now been sent the test copy of LPIV, and the testing phase has officially begun! Of course I'll be testing levels throughout this time too; on top of that I do still have to come up with talismans for LPIV.

I still won't set a release date at this point (apart from "pretty soon"), since there was quite some variation in the testing phases for previous packs - LPIII's was fairly short, while LP Omega's lasted quite a while IIRC. But yes - for those who volunteered for testing, check your PMs for your copies of the game, and for everyone else, it's not long to go now!

While you're waiting, if you haven't played Lemmings Plus recently, why not refresh yourself on my level design tactics by playing Lemmings Plus Flashbacks? (A small collection pack of 32 of the best levels from LPI, LPII and LPIII). It's also worth noting that LPIV does use the new NeoLemmix skills, so if you're not familiar with them, you may want to play through the NeoLemmix Skills Tutorial Pack (a NeoCustLemmix level pack) and/or the first 7 levels of Lemmings Plus Omega to familiarize yourself with them.

I've put up a poll to ask which graphic set people would like to have released next (for general use by anyone). I'll release the winning graphic set for NeoLemmix Editor / NeoCustLemmix at the same time that LPIV is publicly released. The other two will come a bit later.

Look through the topic if you'd like to see what they're like. From my understanding, the general consensus is that Clockwork is the most popular in terms of visuals, but the Wasteland has a few object types that are new (Space also has one new object type, but it's purely decorative). But, we'll let the poll decide which one comes out.

namida · « **Reply #69 on:** May 24, 2015, 03:07:26 AM »

Some updates on how it's going -

So far, I haven't fixed any levels. A bit busy this week; I've been able to view the replays and give feedback but haven't got around to doing fixes yet.

Backroutes have been found in a total of 25 levels so far. Of these, 5 have multiple backroutes. One further one has one definite backroute and one solution I'm undecided about fixing. Apart from these 25, there's one more level that has a solution I'm undecided about. The only level that hasn't yet been solved is Insane 20, though this is including backroutes as "solved". Additionally, Insane 11 was solved in the demo (it was the extra Insane level in the contest-exclusive demo), but has been slightly changed since then and the new version hasn't been solved; but the difference is fairly minor and probably wouldn't take long to solve for someone who found the solution that was found to the previous version.

As far as difficulty feedback goes, most of it relates to Smooth and Bumpy. The testers seem to feel a lot of the levels in those two ranks are poorly placed - mostly either their position in the rank, or they should be in the other one out of those two. There's far less mention of poor ordering for Twisted and Insane.

EDIT: Had a few more replays come in; these have added two more levels to the backrouted list, and moved 5 of them from "has one backroute" to "has multiple backroutes". There's also one level that wasn't backrouted as such, but was solved (by more than one person) by waiting extremely long times for a lemming to go away and then return, when the intention is for timing to be used to solve it in a single go. As such, I'm considering adding a time limit to the level in question here.

namida · « **Reply #70 on:** May 26, 2015, 09:22:32 AM »

So, Insane 20 has finally fallen.

The new-version Insane 11 has also been solved. No backroute fixes have been done yet, though.

namida · « **Reply #71 on:** May 27, 2015, 09:13:10 PM »

I've finished the major uni assignment which was leaving me unable to work too much on LPIV. After I view a few more replays that have come in, I'm going to finally start on backroute fixes.

EDIT: Sent out the backroute fixes for Smooth and Bumpy. Haven't done them for the other ranks yet, but will do them later today most likely.

namida · « **Reply #72 on:** May 31, 2015, 01:58:59 AM »

I've just rolled out to the testers some re-fixes for Smooth and Bumpy, as well as backroute fixes for Twisted. Unless (or more likely, "until") new backroutes show up on these fixes, there's 12 remaining unfixed levels, 1 uncertain as to whether I'll fix it or not (but the more I think about it, the more I'm leaning towards "yes, fix it"), and 1 that doesn't have a backroute as such but allows for a lot of excessive stalling and as such probably needs a time limit added.

Once I get through the first wave of Insane fixes, I'm going to start looking at level reordering too.

EDIT: About half of the Insane levels that had backroutes have been patched, now. Specifically, I did all those that only had a single backroute. Including the undecided one, there's six levels left to patch, not including any new backroutes that may (ie: probably will) show up.

namida · « **Reply #73 on:** May 31, 2015, 09:11:44 AM »

I ultimately decided against fixing that level, more due to the difficulty of doing so rather than accepting the solution. Anyway, at this point all backroutes that are currently known to me have been fixed. I'm waiting on some feedback from testers before I start reordering anything; once reordering is sorted, the only thing left to do before release (aside from shooting down any new backroutes that pop up) is implementing talismans - I do already have several ideas for them, but I'm waiting on implementing them until the level order is more or less finalized.

Got a new set of replays for almost all levels that were fixed in the latest set of updates. Only 5 backrouted levels (so far), which is a huge reduction from previous numbers.

EDIT: And, fixes for those have been sent out. I've also contacted the testers with a preliminary suggestion of how I may reorder the levels. You can probably start expecting a public release within the next week or so at the most.

namida · « **Reply #74 on:** June 02, 2015, 03:53:13 AM »

Okay, so the first proposal for re-ordering has been actually made (instead of just a list written out) and sent out. Backroutes are also getting rarer and rarer; there's a few levels that I've decided I really can't be bothered attempting any more fixes and might just move them to easier positions. At this point, I'm putting less focus on backroutes (though there are a few levels I'll probably fight to the death to rid of backroutes - Insane 14 in particular is one such level, as I absolutely love the intended solution to this one!), and more on level ordering. Once the level ordering seems fairly solid, it'll be time to put together some talismans, and then at last LPIV can be released.

As far as talismans go, I'm aiming for either 15 or 20 total, and have 6 so far, of which 1 is silver and 1 is gold. (...yes, the gold is the standard "beat the final level" one xD)

namida · « **Reply #75 on:** June 02, 2015, 01:11:36 PM »

Alright so, I think I've kept you waiting long enough! I'm delaying this very slightly to allow for any last-minute input the testers might want to give, but unless any of that input happens to be critical issues that absolutely must be fixed before first release and I can't get them fixed before this deadline,

Lemmings Plus IV will be released at midday UTC tomorrow (June 3).

Like I did with the demo, I'll set up a script to automatically allow the download once the release time passes, in case I'm not online / not paying attention at the time of release.

EDIT: Here's the link: http://www.lemmingsforums.net/lpiv_download.php
I'll make an actual release topic closer to the time.

namida · « **Reply #76 on:** June 03, 2015, 04:57:03 AM »

Had one tester who had a few replays he hadn't submitted yet. So I've made a few adjustments to fix the backroutes in those (except for one level that seemed to be unfixable, so I reverted it to its first version, as the testers had said this version was more fun - if the level can't be bulletproof, it can at least be fun!).

Still on track for a release in just over 7 hours.

So, while we're waiting, let's take a look at where the demo levels ended up in the full version:
Italicized levels were exclusive to one of the contest demos.

"Candy Crossing" - Smooth 1
"Central Boiler" - Smooth 9
"Warp Zone" - Smooth 19
"Star Watch" - Smooth 5

"Chocblocked!" - Bumpy 1
"Chocoholics Anonymous" - Bumpy 6
"Chocolate Drops" - Bumpy 3
"Star Watch" - Bumpy 4
"Sweet As!" - Bumpy 7 (this was my entry to Contest #4, so it's another level we've already seen)

"Cooling Vat" - Twisted 5
"Platform Panic" - Insane 8
"Central Heating" - Twisted 15
"Star Watch" - Twisted 13

"Unhealthy Diet" - Bumpy 14
"The Mystery Machine" - Insane 6
"Star Watch" - Insane 5

Poll

So, who's planning to play it when it's released?

Author Topic: Lemmings Plus IV - Development Topic (Release in ~5 minutes!) (Read 36563 times)