Author Topic: Official Lemmings Forums Level Design Contest #1 (Playing)  (Read 13479 times)

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Offline namida

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Official Lemmings Forums Level Design Contest #1 (Playing)
« on: January 16, 2015, 02:50:33 AM »
Alright, level submissions for the first contest have now closed, so it's time to start playing the levels and deciding what ones you like and so on!

Here are some rules for this topic:

1. You are allowed to discuss anything you like about the levels, be it your ideas on solving them, your opinions on the appearance of the level, etc.
2. Any details relating to the solution of the levels, unless very vague, must be spoiler-tagged. For example, "I liked that trick" is fine, "I liked that trick near the end" is probably also fine (though use some discretion), "I liked that cloner trick near the end" should probably be spoilered, and "I liked the trick where you clone the lemming then bomb both versions while the zombie is falling" definitely needs to go behind a spoiler tag.
3. Posting replays of your solutions is perfectly acceptable.


So, now on to the levels... If you were wondering, I've listed them in alphabetical order of the creator's names. We have four NeoLemmix submissions and one Lemmini submission; no one submitted any Lemmix or SuperLemmini levels.

The downloads are in a ZIP attached to this post. For convenience, a copy of the Shadow tileset for Lemmini has also been included in the ZIP.

Precarious Construction (Part 2) by Crane
Format: NeoLemmix
Graphic set: Tree

Shadowrun by IchoTolot
Format: Lemmini
Graphic set: Shadow

Careless Oasis by keiya
Format: NeoLemmix
Graphic set: Desert

General Tsao's Lemming by möbius
Format: NeoLemmix
Graphic set: Psychedelic

Lost in Colourland by Nepster
Format: NeoLemmix
Graphic set: Psychedelic


To run NeoLemmix levels, you can either rename them 0101.lvl, 0102.lvl, etc then use LookForLVLFiles (with NeoCustLemmix), or load them in the NeoLemmix Editor and use the playtest mode. You don't need to download the styles or anything; NeoCustLemmix already includes them.

To run Lemmini levels, copy the "Shadow" folder into the Styles folder (if you don't already have it) to set up the style... as for how to run the level itself, I'm not entirely sure as I haven't used Lemmini in a while. IchoTolot's post just below this one should be able to tell you what you need to know for that. :)


Voting will open in about a week; this is to give everyone time to get familiar with the levels first rather than rushing to vote. There's no specific criteria as to what you should be considering when you vote - it's just which levels you like the most overall, no matter what your reasoning behind it may be.

The voting structure - though this is not "set in stone" so feel free to discuss it if you think it should be done differently - will be that votes are done in two rounds; the first round contains all the levels, and each user gets 3 votes. This will probably last 3-4 days. Whichever two levels have the most vote shere will go through to the second round, which will last the same time but one vote per user; this will determine first and second place. In the event of a tie in the second round, the one that had more votes in the first round will win; I haven't yet thought about how to handle if there's a more-than-two-way tie in the first round, or if the two levels tied in the second round also tied in the first. Suggestions on that are welcome.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2015, 02:53:21 AM by namida »
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Official Lemmings Forums Level Design Contest #1 (Playing)
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2015, 11:12:07 AM »
To play my level you must simply click on load level and choose the level itself after you copied the Shadow style into the style folder  :)  (music will be random this way)

And saving replays only seems to work if the level is in a pack (I've recorded a video of each level I have made with the intended solution until I strip them all together in my pack). So I can upload the vid on youtube if everyone has played through it, to see if it has been backrouted.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2015, 12:33:49 PM by IchoTolot »

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Official Lemmings Forums Level Design Contest #1 (Playing)
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2015, 01:41:53 PM »
Ok here are my replays for the other levels  ;) (attachment    all played as 0101.lvl in the player)

Offline mobius

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Re: Official Lemmings Forums Level Design Contest #1 (Playing)
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2015, 02:06:47 PM »
To play my level you must simply click on load level and choose the level itself after you copied the Shadow style into the style folder  :)  (music will be random this way)

And saving replays only seems to work if the level is in a pack (I've recorded a video of each level I have made with the intended solution until I strip them all together in my pack). So I can upload the vid on youtube if everyone has played through it, to see if it has been backrouted.

U can save replays without a pack. After completing the level ; replay once then go to ur lemmini folder and find the replay file. Copy and rename it. That's it.

It's the same in super lemmini but the file is called "temp"
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

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Offline namida

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Re: Official Lemmings Forums Level Design Contest #1 (Playing)
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2015, 02:41:47 PM »
Ok here are my replays for the other levels  ;) (attachment    all played as 0101.lvl in the player)

NeoCustLemmix doesn't do any verification as to whether you're playing the "same" level or not, so it doesn't matter how one plays the level, they can still view your replay. (Other NeoLemmix players (eg. Lemmings Plus III onwards, or the NeoLemmix players of the official games) *do* check for the correct level.)
My Lemmings projects
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Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Official Lemmings Forums Level Design Contest #1 (Playing)
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2015, 03:33:14 PM »
Ty for the tipps  :thumbsup:  will make a replay of my level later or tomorrow.

Offline Crane

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Re: Official Lemmings Forums Level Design Contest #1 (Playing)
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2015, 06:16:46 PM »
Ugh - backroutes.  I confess I'm getting frustrated at my oversights.

Offline Nepster

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Re: Official Lemmings Forums Level Design Contest #1 (Playing)
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2015, 06:25:38 PM »
@IchoTolot: Thanks for the replay :thumbsup:, even though it is a backroute. I will post a replay of the intended solution a day or two before voting starts.

@namida: What about backroute fixes? Are we supposed to post them here during the contest or should we on the contrary refrain from posting ones, because it is the level we handed in that are going to be voted on?

@All: I have made replays as well and here they are.
Furthermore some comments on the levels. Note: Even though they are hidden, they contain only very mild spoilers. Nevertheless I would recommend trying all levels before reading the comments.
Precarious Construction (Part 2) by Crane:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Shadowrun by IchoTolot:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Careless Oasis by keiya:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
General Tsao's Lemming by möbius:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline namida

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Re: Official Lemmings Forums Level Design Contest #1 (Playing)
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2015, 07:37:16 PM »
@namida: What about backroute fixes? Are we supposed to post them here during the contest or should we on the contrary refrain from posting ones, because it is the level we handed in that are going to be voted on?

The level that you entered is the one that's going to be voted on. Feel free to post a fixed version once the contest is over, or to post a replay of the intended solution if you prefer. :) (Do keep in mind that backroutes don't always break a level's popularity, prime example being Mayhem 13.)


I myself am hoping to get a proper look at these levels later today. :)
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline mobius

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Re: Official Lemmings Forums Level Design Contest #1 (Playing)
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2015, 09:52:23 PM »
sorry but how do you save replays in NeoLemmix? Shift R doesn't bring up a menu like it did in Lemmix.
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
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Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Official Lemmings Forums Level Design Contest #1 (Playing)
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2015, 11:09:49 PM »
Press U while playing to save a replay. Press L to choose a replay to be played while playing the level   (knowing that thx to namida  ;))

Offline Crane

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Re: Official Lemmings Forums Level Design Contest #1 (Playing)
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2015, 02:41:08 AM »
I'm sorry, but I'm not cut out for this.  I'm just terrible and deluded.  I can't even spot simple and obvious solutions like that, and I can't even solve anyone else's levels (except Careless Oasis, and I even failed that on the first try due to bad skill placement).  My own score:

0 for Precarious Construction (Part 2).

Offline namida

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Re: Official Lemmings Forums Level Design Contest #1 (Playing)
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2015, 02:47:54 AM »
Like I mentioned in the other topic, backroutes don't nessecerially make a level bad. It just means they have an unintended solution. Mayhem 13 is the best example of this - despite at least two backroutes, it's still a very well-liked level. Likewise, this isn't just about "hardest level" - it's about "best level", which means that if your level is fun to play and/or people like the appearance, it still has a shot at winning.


Anyway, I had a quick go at these levels (except Shadowrun as I haven't set up Lemmini on this PC yet), and I must say, they're pretty  challenging. I came close on Precarious Construction (Part 2), but didn't manage to beat it yet - I got 96%, but that's the best I could acheive so far. Careless Oasis I did manage to beat; while it is a simple and small level, I did like...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

General Tsao's Lemming, I had some ideas on but I haven't been able to put together a full solution yet. And Lost in Colourland has me pretty damn stumped so far.
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline mobius

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Re: Official Lemmings Forums Level Design Contest #1 (Playing)
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2015, 03:54:52 AM »
namida; what does left clicking do? what is that arrow that appears?  ??? on that note; how do you select only walkers?

Anyway--I looked at some of the levels and agree with namida's comments. I haven't really tried hard on any yet. I really liked the design and look of Precarious Construction (Part 2) [why the part 2? unless it's a secret] This level looks familiar to me.. but then most levels do to me because, Idk why. And I find no immediately obvious solution.
Lost in Color land looks really hard from the start. Looks odd in the editor because of the exit. [but looks good]
I haven't yet look at Icho's but I will.

Nepster solution to my level is not intended. Don't know how difficult it is, I'll wait for more comments/backroutes. This level isn't really one that's easily backroute fixable at all.
[at least
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I think I forgot to mention; it's heavily inspired by two older levels; Technoir by Lacktardo and Fall Guy by BulletRide
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
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"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Offline namida

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Re: Official Lemmings Forums Level Design Contest #1 (Playing)
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2015, 05:44:03 AM »
namida; what does left clicking do? what is that arrow that appears?  ??? on that note; how do you select only walkers?

That's right-click (though if you have your mouse set to left-handed, I think it swaps these); but anyway, it "highlights" the lemming. When you have a lemming highlighted, you can assign a skill to it by right-clicking the skill. (EG: Right click "Lemming A", then right click builder, and Lemming A will build.)

To select only a walker, Ctrl + Click.

If you prefer the normal right-click and click to select a walker, turn on the "Right click / Ctrl Invert" in the settings. If you do this, then Ctrl+Click will highlight a lemming, while right click will only select walkers.

As an extra note that may be useful for some, in NeoLemmix you can also pause/unpause by middle-clicking.
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline Nepster

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Re: Official Lemmings Forums Level Design Contest #1 (Playing)
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2015, 09:56:40 AM »
Lost in Colourland looks really hard from the start. Looks odd in the editor because of the exit.
There is a simple reason for this: The trigger area of the exit is so large, that you usually need two builders to build over it. However with a visible fake exit and an invisible real exit a few pixels below, you may start the builder nearer to the exit and manage to bridge it with just one builder.
I just wanted to give you this option - it does not mean that building over the exit is part of the intended solution!
And yes, at least the intended solution to Colourland is likely very hard to find.

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Official Lemmings Forums Level Design Contest #1 (Playing)
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2015, 11:16:17 AM »
In my opinion Cranes level was the most prettiest of the entries  :thumbsup: even though it got backrouted, but even that solution was solid and would make up a great "Tricky" one (cant speak for the intended difficulty though).
The best level solutionwise (for me) I must say is möbius level. I really enjoyed the level and I didn't think I backrouted it  :thumbsup:

« Last Edit: January 17, 2015, 11:24:49 AM by IchoTolot »

Offline mobius

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Re: Official Lemmings Forums Level Design Contest #1 (Playing)
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2015, 11:04:25 PM »
I didn't see IchoTolot made replays-- your solution (of my level) is similar to Nepster's but slightly different and looks slightly more backroutish so I made a fix:

Tomorrow I will try to solve other's levels.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2015, 11:05:09 PM by namida »
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
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Offline namida

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Re: Official Lemmings Forums Level Design Contest #1 (Playing)
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2015, 11:05:52 PM »
mobius; I removed the attachment as the voting will be based on the original submitted versions of the levels.
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
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Offline namida

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Re: Official Lemmings Forums Level Design Contest #1 (Playing)
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2015, 03:25:39 AM »
Alright, I finally had a proper go at these levels. I managed to solve all of them except Shadowrun; while I had a general idea here, the need to replay levels from the start (even with a replay feature - it still relies on you interrupting it at the right moment, and the fact it scrolls the screen automatically does not help) on Lemmini was driving me freaking crazy, so I gave up for now. Maybe I'm too used to Lemmix's fine control features...

Here's my replays for the four NeoLemmix ones.

My thoughts:

Precarious Construction (Part 2)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Shadowrun
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Careless Oasis
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

General Tsao's Lemming
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Lost in Colourland
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Definitely some great levels here! :)
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Official Lemmings Forums Level Design Contest #1 (Playing)
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2015, 08:18:07 AM »
...the need to replay levels from the start (even with a replay feature - it still relies on you interrupting it at the right moment, and the fact it scrolls the screen automatically does not help) on Lemmini was driving me freaking crazy, so I gave up for now. Maybe I'm too used to Lemmix's fine control features...

Never had big problems with the Lemmini replay system (Maybe I am just don't used to anything else). You know you can simply interrupt a replay and return to normal play mode by "just clicking" on a skill?
I always just speed up to right before the screwup point (or to the point I used the last correct skill) and click on a skill.

Offline namida

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Re: Official Lemmings Forums Level Design Contest #1 (Playing)
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2015, 10:07:36 AM »
...the need to replay levels from the start (even with a replay feature - it still relies on you interrupting it at the right moment, and the fact it scrolls the screen automatically does not help) on Lemmini was driving me freaking crazy, so I gave up for now. Maybe I'm too used to Lemmix's fine control features...

Never had big problems with the Lemmini replay system (Maybe I am just don't used to anything else). You know you can simply interrupt a replay and return to normal play mode by "just clicking" on a skill?
I always just speed up to right before the screwup point (or to the point I used the last correct skill) and click on a skill.

Yep, I know how it works. Don't worry - I do intend to give your level another go! But I'm used to Lemmix, where you can actually hit Enter at any point to "mark" that point, then press Backspace to jump back to that exact frame; you can also press N (or click in empty space) while paused to advance by exactly one frame, and assigning a skill while paused doesn't unpause the game.
My Lemmings projects
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3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Official Lemmings Forums Level Design Contest #1 (Playing)
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2015, 11:29:51 AM »
...the need to replay levels from the start (even with a replay feature - it still relies on you interrupting it at the right moment, and the fact it scrolls the screen automatically does not help) on
Yep, I know how it works. Don't worry - I do intend to give your level another go! But I'm used to Lemmix, where you can actually hit Enter at any point to "mark" that point, then press Backspace to jump back to that exact frame; you can also press N (or click in empty space) while paused to advance by exactly one frame, and assigning a skill while paused doesn't unpause the game.

That Enter thing sounds really nice. Ok, now I can totally understand you :P  didn't know that before I wouldn't want to miss that feature either!  ;)

Offline namida

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Re: Official Lemmings Forums Level Design Contest #1 (Playing)
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2015, 04:25:00 AM »
I'm going to open the voting in about 24 hours, unless anyone has a problem with this.
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Official Lemmings Forums Level Design Contest #1 (Playing)
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2015, 05:29:33 PM »
I've decided to upload a replay with the intended solution for my entry "Shadowrun", so that you can control yourself if you got the right solution or backrouted it.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)