Holiday Lemmings Plus & Lemmings Plus Flashbacks

[namida]

Lemmings Plus Games Index
Lemmings Plus DOS Project
A Lemmix-based pack of 150 levels using the official graphic sets. Lemmings Plus DOS Project mostly stays true to the original mechanics, even including glitches, but did introduce the staple Lemmings Plus feature of having non-timed bombers.
(Topic) | (Download)

Lemmings Plus II
A Lemmix-based pack of 100 levels + 5 secret levels using five new graphic sets. Introduces the concepts of Frenzy and Gimmick levels, as well as secret levels; though the engine is a modified version of traditional Lemmix, not NeoLemmix.
Has a bonus pack of 30 levels + 2 secret levels focusing on repeats and gimmick/frenzy levels.
(Topic) | (Download) | (Download Bonus Pack)

Lemmings Plus III
A NeoLemmix-based pack of 60 levels + 9 secret levels using four new graphic sets. Lemmings Plus III is the first pack in the series to use the NeoLemmix engine.
Has a bonus pack of 35 levels + 7 secret levels focusing on repeats and gimmick levels.
(Topic) | (Download) | (Download Bonus Pack)

Holiday Lemmings Plus
A small NeoLemmix-based pack of 12 levels exclusively using the Christmas graphic set. Holiday Lemmings Plus is the first pack in the series to use the new NeoLemmix skills and vertical scrolling.
(Topic) | (Download)

Lemmings Plus Flashbacks
An NeoLemmix-based collection pack featuring 32 of the best levels selected from Lemmings Plus DOS Project, Lemmings Plus II and Lemmings Plus III.
(Topic) | (Download)

Lemmings Plus Omega
An NeoLemmix-based pack of 135 levels using the Lemmings Plus II and Lemmings Plus III graphic sets. It is the last entry in the Lemmings Plus series.
(Topic) | (Download)


Note: This is a shared topic for both Holiday Lemmings Plus and Lemmings Plus Flashbacks, since they're both relatively small projects.


Well, I've mentioned three upcoming Lemmings Plus projects around the place. And I think it's time to create a topic for one of them, specifically, the one referred to as "Lemmings Plus H Project".

Or, by it's proper name, "Holiday Lemmings Plus".

It's a small pack of 12 levels all using the Christmas graphic set, divided into two ranks of 6 levels each, titled "Glimmer" and "Arctic". Includes a set of 6 Christmas tunes, so within one rank, every level has a unique music. No secret levels here*, and none of the levels are gimmick levels or frenzies.

For more information, check the page about it on on my website.

This pack is also the first proper pack (not including the tutorial pack included with NeoCustLemmix) that uses the new NeoLemmix skills - or at least most of them; none of the levels use Mechanics, and only one level uses Cloners (and the level in question only has a single cloner).



This pack has now been released and can be downloaded here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6uz34sgvekcihvs/HolidayLemmingsPlus.exe

This version is now considered the official version until further notice (version V1 / V1.24n), even though newer versions are "unofficially" available through the NeoLemmix update stream.

Solution replays can be downloaded here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fjows0iquzujni9/HLP_Solutions.zip

* Promise. This isn't another one of those cases like with LPII where I didn't admit secret levels even existed until a while after release, or LPIII where I initially claimed there were only 8 but later revealed there was a 9th one. There are genuinely no secret levels in this one.




Lemmings Plus Flashbacks is a small collection pack featuring 32 levels from Lemmings Plus DOS Project, Lemmings Plus II and Lemmings Plus III, split into four ranks of 8 levels each. There's no new content; it's intended for those who just want to replay some of the best levels, or perhaps people who would like to try the Lemmings Plus series but either want a small sample before jumping into the full games, or don't have time to play large levelpacks in their entirity.

LPF does not contain any levels from Lemmings Plus II Bonus Pack, Lemmings Plus III Bonus Pack or Holiday Lemmings Plus.

Downloads:
(DropBox)
(NeoLemmix Website)

Music pack:
(DropBox)
(NeoLemmix Website)

The music pack is optional, but gives the authentic musics intended for LPDOS and LPII instead of MOD conversions of MIDI remakes of them. It makes no difference to the musics on the LPIII levels.

To those who are playing this as a sampler etc without having actually played the main games (especially Lemmings Plus III), please be aware that some of the Lemmings Plus III levels use new mechanics that you may not be familiar with (they're introduced in tutorial levels in LPIII itself). Specifically:
- "Locked Out!" has a locked exit. You must push all the buttons (by having a lemming walk over them) to unlock it.
- "Synergistic Effect" does not have any new mechanics in play.
- "Extra Skill Required" has pickup skills. If you get a lemming to these, they're added to your available skillset.
- "Experimental Materials" has one-way-down arrows. These cannot be bashed, but can be mined or dug.
- "Viva Las Lemmine" has pre-placed lemmings. This simply means there's some lemmings that are already on the map instead of having to come out of an entrance. It also has teleporters, which do pretty much exactly what you'd expect them to.
- "Hardwired!" also has teleporters.
- "Crossover Arena" does not have any new mechanics in play.

The one-way fields introduced in Lemmings Plus II (and used in Lemmings Plus III) are not used in any of the levels included in LPF.

[namida]

Maximum saved list

NOTE: For the avoidance of doubt, the percentages used here are the Cloner-adjusted percentages. This is the default option used in Holiday Lemmings Plus.

As usual, if a level where 100% is not possible is bolded, it means it's possible to save more than the requirement.

Glimmer - 6 optional
Glimmer 1: 100% is possible
Glimmer 2: 100% is possible
Glimmer 3: 100% is possible
Glimmer 4: 100% is possible
Glimmer 5: 100% is possible
Glimmer 6: 100% is possible

Arctic - 1 required, 5 impossible
Arctic 1: 100% is required
Arctic 2: Record is 86% (43 lemmings) (Nepster)
Arctic 3: Record is 96% (49 lemmings) (Nepster)
Arctic 4: Record is 68% (34 lemmings) (DynaLem)
Arctic 5: Record is 92% (92 lemmings) (Nepster)
Arctic 6: Record is 97% (97 lemmings)


For Lemmings Plus Flashbacks, these are generally the same as they were in the original versions of the levels, unless glitches were exploited to reach the maximums. The only known level with a different maximum is Panic Attack, where only 94% is possible in this version. It is possible there are other differences; I will look into this more at a later time.

[namida]

Alright, here we are. Here's the first release of Holiday Lemmings Plus.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6uz34sgvekcihvs/HolidayLemmingsPlus.exe

You'll notice it mentions it's running on "NeoLemmix V1.23n-D". I haven't done a general release of this version; you haven't missed anything.

There probably won't be any update to it (aside from the usual NeoLemmix stream updates once it's been finalised), though I might reconsider that if any major backroutes show up in the last few levels.


Special thanks to DynaLem and minimac for testing.

I won't outright give away the cheat code yet, but instead, I'm going to give a hint at it, and if you can work it out, you can use the code. I'll reveal the code outright at a later point.
The hint is:
"A boat's a boat, but the ______ could be anything. It could even be a boat!"


By the way - as I've mentioned before, Glimmer is very interesting in the Skills You Can't Live Without challenge. The result for the entire rank is just a single skill - 1 basher. Try it.

[Nepster]

I have beaten all levels except Arctic 4. Replays of notable solutions are attached.

Arctic 1: Good level, but I would have preferred a slightly more restrictive skill-set. And I just noticed with this level how similar the icon for the floater and the glider are. Perhaps you could modify the glider icon a little bit, to make it easier to distinguish from the floater?
Arctic 2: 86% is possible with some careful positioning of certain skills.
Arctic 3: I think I backrouted this one...
Arctic 5: 92% is possible. A great level, even if the middle part (everything between and including the two thin ice pillars) needs some pixel-precise skill assignments.
Arctic 6: Even if I like the solution of Arctic 5 better, this is my favourite level, because one has much more leeway in assigning each skill here.

As for the skills you can't live without: Could you please give me a hint, how to do the level requiring the basher without any swimmer?

[namida]

I have beaten all levels except Arctic 4. Replays of notable solutions are attached.

Arctic 1: Good level, but I would have preferred a slightly more restrictive skill-set. And I just noticed with this level how similar the icon for the floater and the glider are. Perhaps you could modify the glider icon a little bit, to make it easier to distinguish from the floater?
Arctic 2: 86% is possible with some careful positioning of certain skills.
Arctic 3: I think I backrouted this one...
Arctic 5: 92% is possible. A great level, even if the middle part (everything between and including the two thin ice pillars) needs some pixel-precise skill assignments.
Arctic 6: Even if I like the solution of Arctic 5 better, this is my favourite level, because one has much more leeway in assigning each skill here.

As for the skills you can't live without: Could you please give me a hint, how to do the level requiring the basher without any swimmer?

I won't be able to check out your replays until Monday sorry, but as for these:

Floater / Glider icon: Probably not a bad idea. They're noticably different in the non-Xmas graphics, but could probably use some more distinction here.
Arctic 2: I'll add that to the list.
Arctic 3: During testing, myself, DynaLem and minimac all came up with three completely different solutions (all of which I decided were acceptable), so it's possible more exist. I'll let you know when I see the replay.
Arctic 5: You might've found a different solution than I did; in my solution most of the skills don't need to be pixel-precise.
Arctic 6: It's my favorite too.

For the skills you can't live without... I'll give you another chance before giving a hint, because I think you're overlooking something VERY obvious. If you're still stuck, I'll give you a hint.

[Nepster]

...because I think you're overlooking something VERY obvious. If you're still stuck, I'll give you a hint.

I do not think that the trick is "VERY obvious", because I find this behaviour somewhat counterintuitive (one might even say slightly glitchy). Moreover it allows for a solution to Arctic 6, that saves 3 skills. Replays are attached.

[namida]

The trick I'm thinking of is using a stoner on a faller... Is that what you did?

[Nepster]

Yes.

[namida]

Alright, I was able to watch your replays now.

Glimmer 4: I don't get how this is unintuitive or borderline glitchy. The Stoner closely resembles the Bomber (apart from creating terrain instead of destroying it), so I would've thought if anything, it'd be unintuitive to *not* allow mid-air use, since mid-air bombers are perfectly fine. I wondered if you'd done something else in your solution beyond just a mid-air stoner, until I watched it. The tutorial pack level for Stoners makes it quite clear that this behaviour is allowed anyway, as it's impossible to solve without doing so - the tutorial level for stoners in LPZ does not require mid-air use (though it can be used for an alternate solution that uses more skills and saves less lemmings but completes the level much faster), but I will make a point of including an easy, early level requiring it and making it quite clear that that's what to do, before any levels that require it come up (as there are at least two so far where this trick is required).

Arctic 2: Nicely done!

Arctic 3: That one's a definite backroute. It's definitely fixable without interfering with my solution; not sure if it interferes with DynaLem's or minimac's ones (we all had different - but accepted - solutions to this level).


Arctic 5: Your solution is a slight variation on mine; definitely an acceptable solution and not a backroute. I think mine was a bit easier to execute.

Arctic 6 (Solution 1): Nice! This is also a slight variation on my solution, and in this case, yours is much easier to execute.

Arctic 6 (Solution 2): The first solution you used shows that a stoner is not nessecary (as it can be replaced with a blocker, bomber or stacker), which means this one could quite easily be patched. However, the main essence of the solution is still there, so I think I'll leave this one in anyway.


So, in short, the only solution that'll need blocking is your one to Arctic 3.

[namida]

Okay, so to discuss the other minor project, "Lemmings Plus C Project".

This one is not going to be a pack of new levels, but rather, a small compilation pack of 30 levels from LPDOS, LPII and LPIII (I'm not going to include levels from the bonus packs or Holiday Lemmings Plus). There are two reasons for this:

1) A smaller pack for people who want to play some of the levels, but don't want to play entire large packs.
2) A refresher, for people who want to play a sampling of the levels again.

For the record, this will be based on NeoLemmix, so for the LPDOS / LPII levels, it'll be using the NeoLemmix versions in cases where they differ from the traditional ones.

I'd like some input on which levels should be included. The preliminary list, which is based partly on the voteoff results, partly on feedback I've received on specific levels, and partly on my own opinions, is as follows:

Mild 12
Mild 30
Nice 7
Wimpy 10
Wimpy 12
Timid 15
Cheeky 5
Cheeky 7
Cheeky 20
Medi 6
Medi 16
Medi 29
Dodgy 8
Dodgy 11
Sneaky 9
Sneaky 13
Rough 7
Danger 5
Danger 22
Cunning 5
Cunning 17
Psycho 1
Psycho 18
Psycho 20
Psycho 23
Genius 4
Genius 8
Genius 17
Fierce 1
Fierce 13

Some of these levels are not up for debate at all and will definitely be included. Those levels, and the reasons they are not up for debate, are as follows:

Wimpy 12 - Made it to the final round of the LPDOS voteoff
Medi 6 - Won the LPDOS voteoff
Danger 22 - Made it to the final round of the LPDOS voteoff
Psycho 1 - Made it to the final round of the LPDOS voteoff
Psycho 23 - I want to include this one due to the significant differences in the NeoLemmix version
Cheeky 5 - Made it to the final round of the LPII voteoff
Genius 8 - Won the LPII voteoff
Timid 15 - Made it to the final round of the LPIII voteoff
Dodgy 8 - Made it to the final round of the LPIII voteoff
Rough 7 - Won the LPIII voteoff
Fierce 13 - Made it to the final round of the LPIII voteoff

Additionally, two more levels are mostly considered fixed, but there are very limited substitutions I may consider:

Psycho 20 - I want to include a No Time To Die level, but I'm open to swapping it for Psycho 27 or Genius 10
Genius 17 - I want to include a level of this concept, but I'm open to swapping it for Psycho 28

Just to reiterate, any suggested substitutions must come from LPDOS, LPII or LPIII (not the bonus packs or Holiday Lemmings Plus). Also, gimmick / frenzy levels will not be considered; normal levels only. (The LPII secret levels (apart from Cunning 21 obviously) are fine, though.) The Pre-V7 LPDOS levels are also not eligible. Finally, for LPDOS levels that have/are repeats, either version is fine, but I won't include both versions of the level - either the easy one only or the hard one only.

[Wafflem]

Will the levels in the pack be ordered in the preliminary list, or will they be divided into three separate ranks (i.e. one rank is LPDOS, the second rank is LPII, the third rank is LPIII)?

Also, I suggest adding the level titles next to the level positions in the preliminary list. This will help people really remember what the levels are.

Great choices for the levels, although I was hoping you'd include Danger 16 "Grounded!", that level is one of my favorites and uses a lot of clever tricks. You also didn't include PSYCHO 26 "Oblivion"; I think I read somewhere that this was one of your classic levels from your Cheapo packs (though Danger 5 does also use that trick). Also, I know you said you won't include bonus pack levels, but if there is enough demand for it, perhaps you can make an "Honorable Mention" rank for the bonus packs? Two great bonus pack levels for example, are Challenge 3 "Another Way Down" and Flight 7 "When You Wish Upon a Lemming," both of which made it to the semi-finals in the voteoff.

For Genius 17, I suggest switching it with PSYCHO 28 because PSYCHO 28, in my opinion, is more challenging and a level I haven't beaten yet.

[namida]

Most likely ordered as they are in there; though at the moment, I've only reordered them by source rank, not on an individual level basis. I was initially going to split them into "Easy", "Medium" and "Hard" ranks, but I felt that to do this fairly, there'd need to be uneven amounts of levels between the ranks (or more levels added in / some taken out). Perhaps if I add two more levels in, four ranks of 8 levels each might be a bit easier to divide up.

Genius 17 vs Psycho 28 is a difficult question - from what I can gather, the general opinion is that Psycho 28 is harder, but Genius 17 is more fun and makes better use of the concept. This is why I've initially picked Genius 17.

Danger 5 doesn't really use a trick like Psycho 26? At any rate, the trick in Psycho 26 is somewhat fidgety to pull off even in NeoLemmix (though it's not as bad as in DOS). This is a major reason why I didn't consider it so far.

[Wafflem]

That's a good point about Genius 17. It is indeed more fun than PSYCHO 28.

Here's how I did Danger 5. (This is the V7 version of the replay, not the NeoLemmix version, though my solution should work the same).

[namida]

Ah, I see, you've indeed used a very Psycho 26-like solution there.

I've attached the "standard" solution to that level (this is also for V7). Both solutions should work just fine under NeoLemmix.

[Akseli]

Also, I suggest adding the level titles next to the level positions in the preliminary list. This will help people really remember what the levels are.

This is an issue I've also probably mentioned earlier, I always need to look the levels up from somewhere because I can't remember them from their positions (was it whichever level set, even the official ones or my favourites!) but from the titles I can identify the levels a lot easier.

My favourites briefly:
Mild 30 - You Just Lost The Game! - My favourite Mild level.
Wimpy 27 - Ready, Aim, Fire!!! - Stood out from Wimpy rating, because nearly all other levels are something like x-of-every-skill original levels for their repeats.
Medi 15 - Shooting Star - A unique level because you're forced to know the advantage of an oh noer -lemming.
Medi 16 - The Oddstack - A simple looking level, but effective with all the tasks you have to do there.
Medi 24 - The Eye of the Lemming - A really enjoyable puzzle level in its difficulty area.
Danger 3 - Backdraft - The main idea is golden (it's not that complicated but it took like forever from me to realize, which are often some of these best playing experiences), one of my favourite levels of yours.
Danger 5 - Some Kind of a Lemming - Another enjoyable not too hard a puzzle.
Danger 22 - Die the Death of the Damned - My favourite from LPDOS. Terrific lateral thinking with the overlapping lemmings there!
PSYCHO 1 - Variety Day - The main thing is simply neat.
PSYCHO 7 - Turn Back With Care - Another level I remember solving gleefully.
PSYCHO 19 - A Perfect Nightmare - A strong level in like all the sectors I appreciate in level designing.
PSYCHO 25 - Bullet Lemming - Maybe my favourite PSYCHO level after all, again due to the main thing.
PSYCHO 30 - Hellfire! - This, like Variety Day, are already chosen to the Lix set, but deservedly without any doubt.
Nice 7 - Together We Sand - The best Nice level, though too bare looking.
Cheeky 15 - To The Treetop! - A solid ascending level.
Cheeky 20 - Kickback Scheme - A solid ascending level. ;D
Sneaky 9 - Rolling Rampage - One of my favourites from LPII.
Sneaky 18 - A Two-Pronged Approach - After many backroutes I watched the intended solution and loved it.
Cunning 17 - Cyclic Lemming - My favourite Cunning level.
Genius 8 - Panic Attack - Okay, now I'll say it out loud: My favourite level of yours.
Timid 15 - Locked Out! - My favourite Timid level.
Dodgy 7 - Experimental Materials - Another level with a simple layout and not that easy solution.
Rough 1 - Viva Las Lemmine - Good job.
Rough 7 - Hardwired! - Maybe my favourite LPIII level.

Some comments I've given in personal messages, some other I've posted in LPDOS topic and LPII topic.

And yes, I've played the newest packs to some extent, I'll hopefully send my solutions soon!

[namida]

Well, I've decided that since there's only one level, and it's one that has multiple solutions anyway (and it took a few people playing it before that route surfaced), I'm going to leave all the levels as is for Holiday Lemmings Plus.

There will, however, be the usual update that puts it on a newer NeoLemmix version and re-enables stuff like cheat mode in the INI file, LookForLVLFiles, etc. This will come when NeoLemmix V1.24n player is ready for release - doesn't nessecerially have to wait for the styles, patches to other player levels, editor update, etc. However, unless any mechanics-related glitches are found between now and then, there won't be any mechanics changes that affect Holiday Lemmings Plus - the only mechanics change that affects existing levels (rather than providing new options for new levels) is the blocker + locked exit glitch being fixed, and obviously no HLP levels use locked exits so it's irrelevant there.

[Nepster]

My Top 30 LP-levels mostly coincide with yours, but there are 8 differences:

Levels not im my Top 30 (though most of them would be in my Top 40):
Psycho 1 - Variety Day: A good level, but I never understood why others praise is SUCH highly. At least my solution needs some bomber timing and is not as "clean" as one might wish for.
Psycho 18 - Return of the T: A good idea, but the long waiting periods while the lemmings bash/mine/dig take some of the fun away.
Psycho 23 - Death Row: I haven't played the NeoLemmix version, but I remember this level to be very fiddly. Moreover I frequently assigned skills to other lemmings than intended.
Nice 7 - Together we Sand: The best Nice level, but compared to the other level in the Top 30 it feels somewhat unimaginative.
Cheeky 20 - Kickback Scheme: Again certainly not a bad level, but due to the possibility to send one lemming ahead to do all the work, this does not range among my Top 30.
Sneeky 9 - Rolling Rampage: The intended solution deserves to be included among the Top 30, but unfortunately one doesn't need to send a climber to the left...
Genius 4 - Diet Control: Same situation here. The more straight-forward alternative solution prohibits this from a place among my favourites. But I am not sure, whether this alternative appoach works under NeoLemmix mechanics as well?
Dodgy 8 - Synergestic effects: I felt it pretty obvious what to do here.
Fierce 1 - Dead is the Black: Pretty unique trick, but there are not many approaches one can try.

Levels in my Top 30:
Medi 24 -  The Eye of the Lemming: I agree with Akseli.
Danger 15 - Circular Wavelength: Another level that is very much fun to play.
Psycho 25 - Bullet Lemmings: Even if the time limit could be slighty relaxed, the idea is brilliant.
Psycho 30 - Hellfire: I very much enjoyed figuring out which skill to use where. And the existence of two solutions, both hard to find, makes the level even better.
Genius 6 - Treetop Trial: I think I already mentioned that this is after Panic attack the second best level in LPII.
Dodgy 7 - Experimental Materials: I agree with Akseli.
Rough 1 - Viva Las Lemmine: It stands in the shadow of Hardwired, but is an excellent level nonetheless.
Fierce 4 - Lost in Translation: A level with many approaches, but few which actually work. All solutions known to me are ingenious.

[namida]

Psycho 1 - Variety Day: A good level, but I never understood why others praise is SUCH highly. At least my solution needs some bomber timing and is not as "clean" as one might wish for.

LPDOS has instant bombers, though? :/ And...

At least in the intended solution, the bomber and the digger are 100% interchangeable.

As for Genius 4, if it requires all the builders, it definitely won't work under NeoLemmix, as the NeoLemmix version gives one less builder.

[Nepster]

Psycho 1: You are absolutely correct - interchanging the two skills makes it easier. As for bomber timing: In the attached solution, the bomber has to be placed in such a way that the climber=basher is not the first one to walk to the left, which is rather non-trivial (even with instant bombers).

Genius 4: If I remember correctly then the alternative solution, I have in mind, needs all builders. But I will have to check that.
EDIT: The alternative solution works as well with only 4 builders, cf. attachment. But I think the stricter checks for builders hitting the ceiling will prevent this solution from working in NeoLemmix.

[namida]

Yep, that solution definitely won't work in NeoLemmix.

[namida]

Finalised version of Holiday Lemmings Plus has now been uploaded. There shouldn't be any gameplay differences from the first release, the main difference is things like LookForLVLFiles, cheat codes in the INI, and so on being enabled.

If you're planning to use LookForLVLFiles with it by the way - keep in mind that HLP uses the NeoCustLemmix numbering for the Xmas style (ie: graphic set #9), not the numbering that H94 and X91/92 used (ie: graphic set #2). With that being said, once the V1.24n general release and editor are available, this won't be too important as V1.24n supports styles by name instead of number.


Obviously Lemmings Plus C Project won't require much work - mostly just a matter of deciding what levels to include, then building a player (and half the work for that is already done). With NeoLemmix also being close to being finalised, this means almost all my Lemmings effort now is focused on LPZ.

[Wafflem]

I’ll mention my favorite levels too. NOTE: This list is incomplete for three reasons: gimmicks/frenzies/bonus pack levels are not allowed, the levels I am listing I feel are (or would have been) worthy enough for the pack, and that I haven’t beaten the harder levels yet, especially in the PSYCHO, Cunning, Genius, Rough and Fierce levels. I’ll follow a similar format to how Nepster reviewed the levels.

Levels on the 30 that aren’t on my favorite list:
Nice 7 – Together We Sand – this one’s a good level, but I feel that it's slightly similar to Fun 11 with a few more obstacles.
Cheeky 7 – Yours Treely - there's nothing special about the solution, though I do like the visual design.
Dodgy 8 – Synergistic Effect – as Nepster said, the solution is obvious.
Fierce 1 – Dead Is the New Black – I love the trick used here, but it doesn’t feel like it should be in this collection pack. Also, it feels odd that this is the first level of Fierce, despite it being supposedly the easiest Fierce level.

Levels on the 30 that are my favorites:
Mild 12 – On the Pier – a very fun “find a safe way” down level with so many solutions.
Mild 30 – You Just Lost the Game! – a great way to conclude the Mild rating, especially with so many tricky obstacles
Wimpy 10 – Labyrinth of Despair – now this one is truly deserving to be on this list! Not only are there multiple solutions in this level, but every solution requires a couple of tricks to get up the walls, making this level very fun indeed.
Wimpy 12 – Russian Rescue – another level deserving to be on the list, due to it being a puzzle level that requires a certain degree of strategic thinking
Timid 15 – Locked Out! –I’m sure a couple of you know by now that the locked exit/button puzzles are my favorite types of levels (although I haven’t beaten Collection Pit or Lost In Translation, sadly; the former I really want to beat). I am very glad this one made it in the pack.
Cheeky 5 – A Violation of Lemming Rights – another great puzzle level with so many one-way walls and a very tricky structure.
Medi 6 – Fallen – the LPDOS winner, and very deserving of the first place position (or Wimpy 10/12, whichever one doesn’t matter). Gotta love all the tricks used in this level.
Medi 16 – The Oddstack – okay, this one may be very difficult, but I’ve learned a lot from this level in regards to timing. Plus, this one will be four minutes long in NeoLemmix, so this level won’t be as bad this time.
Dodgy 11 – Extra Skill Required – a puzzling level that makes very great use of the pickup skills. Definitely deserving to be on this pack.
Sneaky 13 – When Only a Lemming Will Do – a fun Sneaky level, especially if you only have one minute. Lots of timing involved, making this one a challenge.
Danger 5 – Some Kind Of Lemming – a small but challenging and rewarding level. I didn’t even know that the Oblivion trick wasn’t even part of this level's intended solution.
PSYCHO 1 – Variety Day – the best Hero concept level (along with Hero Frenzy, but that can't be included).
Genius 8 – Panic Attack – of course, one of the best levels of LPII with a really great, claustrophobic design and lots of timing.

Levels not on the Top 30 that are my favorites and would have been worthy to add:
Medi 8 – Cavern of Chills – this one may look simple, but finding a way up that dirt wall requires a certain strategy.
Medi 12 – Step Up! – a great level that uses a lot of destructive skill tricks. I also liked the limited builders.
Danger 6 – Alternative Logic – you’ve managed to squeeze everything in just one minute, with the solution requiring the last lemming entering the exit right before time runs out. A gem indeed.
Danger 11 – The Warp Room – this one is your oldest level, and it may be worth adding so people will know how you started designing levels.
Danger 16 – Grounded! – my favorite “find a safe way down” level.
PSYCHO 22 – Twins – a great “find a way up” level with a limited number of builders, requiring you to use other destructive skills.
Nice 12 – Cactus Island – like On the Pier, but more challenging with a limitaton of blockers, builders and bashers that make this level more worthy of being in the pack.
Nice 17 – Lemmings Gettin’ Down – this one is intense due to the fact that you only have bashers and bombers along with a high release rate.
Cheeky 15 – To the Treehouse! – I agree with Akseli here; I had a lot of fun with this one.
Sneaky 5 – Misfortune of the Masses – a very great level; you have to find a way around the walls while trying to save the lemmings at the left at the same time.
Sneaky 10 – Drought Season – this one isn’t actually one of my favorites, but the general consensus is that it’s a very good and tricky level involving trying to solve it when you are unable to hold the lemmings back, so this one would have been worthy to add.
Genius 13 – Only a Lemming Away – I had fun with this one, it required a lot of good timing, and I felt the solution was clever.
Timid 12 – No Floaters, Guaranteed – this one’s so intense due to the high release rate and that radiation object in the middle. It’s also slightly similar to Cactus Island because you have to find a safe way down without floaters (but you have plenty of skills). There’s also multiple solutions in this one.
Dodgy 3 – Flea Market – one of the most original levels I have ever played. A level that can only be solved by knowing which pickup skills to use? Clever indeed.
Dodgy 7 – Experiemental Materials – agreed with Akseli and Nepster. This one should be in the collection pack, despite it not making it to the finals. It’s fun finding a way around the one-way walls.
Fierce 3 – The Soft Scale – this one required a lot of tricks to solve, but it felt very rewarding for me once I figured it out. I also made good utilization of the updraft.

I recommend adding Dodgy 7 "Experimental Materials" if you plan to add two more levels, partly because there aren’t a lot of LPIII levels in the list, and partly because this level is also Akseli’s and Nepster’s favorite. Cheeky 15 "To the Treehouse" is another strong consideration.

[namida]

Based on the feedback here, some considerations - nothing is finalised yet, and obviously not *all* of these additions/removals can actually happen, they're just candidates:

Possibly consider adding
Medi 24 :: This one was actually one originally on my list before I cut it down to 30.
PSYCHO 25 :: I never realised this one was so popular.
Cheeky 15 :: I might've been a bit biased here in all honesty; this level seems to be very popular, but it's one I myself am not overly fond of. I'll reconsider this one.
Genius 6 :: This is another one that was on the pre-cutdown list.
Dodgy 7 :: Well, if it's THAT popular...
Rough 1 :: I actually completely forgot about this level while drawing up the lists, it definitely should've at least been considered.

Possibly consider removing
Psycho 18 :: This might've been somewhat influenced by nostalgia. In it's original Cheapo incarnation, this was the first really challenging level I ever made.
Nice 7 :: It seems generally agreed that this level isn't *that* great.
Cheeky 7 :: This may also be somewhat nostalgia-influenced, since it was the first level I created for Lemmix in a custom-made style.
Fierce 1 :: Yeah, might be a bit out of place really...


As for the remark on The Warp Room as my first level - it's not even close. I've made many levels before this; it's just my oldest level that still survives anywhere (or actually, "This Time We Brought 30 More" might be even older, though that's an edit of an official level rather than a completely original one). I probably have hundreds of older levels that have been lost to computer reformats / breakdowns / simply deleting them because I don't like them later on.

[Wafflem]

It shouldn't be a problem to add them all. I remember a few posts back that you were considering four ranks of eight levels each.

If you remove those four levels you listed, that would bring it down to 26, and if you add the six levels, it will bring it to 32; thus, it is possible to have the four ranks of eight levels each. These levels you considered adding will really work for new players to Lemmings Plus anyway; they're quite fun and challenging.

[namida]

I only just realised I hadn't put these up yet, so here's my solutions for the levels in Holiday Lemmings Plus.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fjows0iquzujni9/HLP_Solutions.zip

[namida]

Okay so, for LPC, here's the revised list - using the idea of doing it as 32 levels spread over 4 ranks of 8 levels each. I haven't sorted these into a finalised order yet.

The ones that are crossed off are ones that were on my initial list that have now been removed from the list; those in italics are the new additions.

Mild 12 "On The Pier"
Mild 30 "You Just Lost The Game!"
Wimpy 10 "Labyrinth of Despair"
Wimpy 12 "Russian Rescue"
Medi 6 "Fallen"
Medi 16 "The Oddstack"
Medi 24 "Eye of the Lemming"
Medi 29 "Lemmingsense"
Danger 5 "Some Kind Of Lemming"
Danger 22 "Die the Death of the Damned"
Psycho 1 "Variety Day"
Psycho 18 "Return of the T"
Psycho 20 "No Time To Die"
Psycho 23 "Death Row"
Psycho 25 "Bullet Lemming"

Nice 7 "Together We Sand"
Cheeky 5 "A Violation Of Lemming Rights"
Cheeky 7 "Yours Treely"
Cheeky 15 "To The Treehouse!"
Cheeky 20 "Kickback Scheme"
Sneaky 9 "Rolling Rampage"
Sneaky 13 "When Only A Lemming Will Do"
Cunning 5 "Maximum Security"
Cunning 17 "Cyclic Lemming"
Genius 4 "Diet Control"
Genius 6 "Treetop Trial"
Genius 8 "Panic Attack"
Genius 17 "No Construction Zone"

Timid 15 "Locked Out!"
Dodgy 7 "Experimental Materials"
Dodgy 8 "Synergistic Effect"
Dodgy 11 "Extra Skill Required"
Rough 1 "Viva Las Lemmine"
Rough 7 "Hardwired!"
Fierce 1 "Dead Is The New Black"
Fierce 13 "Crossover Arena"

[namida]

Okay, so looks like those levels it is. Now for how to divide them up... I'm going with the idea of four ranks, I haven't got names for them yet so I'll just refer to them by the difficulty level in this post.

These are not yet finalised, and are not yet ordered within the ranks.

Easy
Mild 12 "On The Pier"
Mild 30 "You Just Lost The Game!"
Wimpy 10 "Labyrinth of Despair"
Wimpy 12 "Russian Rescue"
Cheeky 5 "A Violation Of Lemming Rights"
Sneaky 9 "Rolling Rampage"
Timid 15 "Locked Out!"
Dodgy 8 "Synergistic Effect"

Medium
Medi 6 "Fallen"
Medi 24 "Eye of the Lemming"
Medi 29 "Lemmingsense"
Cheeky 15 "To The Treehouse!"
Cheeky 20 "Kickback Scheme"
Dodgy 7 "Experimental Materials"
Dodgy 11 "Extra Skill Required"
Rough 7 "Hardwired!"

Hard
Medi 16 "The Oddstack"
Danger 5 "Some Kind Of Lemming"
Psycho 1 "Variety Day"
Psycho 23 "Death Row"
Psycho 25 "Bullet Lemming"
Sneaky 13 "When Only A Lemming Will Do"
Cunning 17 "Cyclic Lemming"
Rough 1 "Viva Las Lemmine"

Very Hard
Danger 22 "Die the Death of the Damned"
Psycho 20 "No Time To Die"
Cunning 5 "Maximum Security"
Genius 4 "Diet Control"
Genius 6 "Treetop Trial"
Genius 8 "Panic Attack"
Genius 17 "No Construction Zone"
Fierce 13 "Crossover Arena"

[Wafflem]

Suggestions for the list:

Switch Sneaky 9 with Dodgy 7.
Switch Danger 5 with either Rough 7 or Cheeky 20.

[namida]

1) Sneaky 9 is actually quite easy for the most part. It does involve a bit of clever placement on the last few skills, but overall I think Dodgy 7 is harder, especially with the 100% requirement.
2) All three of these levels lie on the boundary between the two sections really, I came up with a (preliminary) ordered list and it puts Rough 7 and Cheeky 20 at the end of the second section and Danger 5 at the start of the third. I might see what other feedback is given on these ones.


Speaking of which, preliminary ordered list:

Easy
Mild 12 "On The Pier"
Mild 30 "You Just Lost The Game!"
Wimpy 10 "Labyrinth of Despair"
Cheeky 5 "A Violation Of Lemming Rights"
Wimpy 12 "Russian Rescue"
Sneaky 9 "Rolling Rampage"
Timid 15 "Locked Out!"
Dodgy 8 "Synergistic Effect"

Medium
Cheeky 15 "To The Treehouse!"
Dodgy 7 "Experimental Materials"
Dodgy 11 "Extra Skill Required"
Medi 24 "Eye of the Lemming"
Medi 29 "Lemmingsense"
Medi 6 "Fallen"
Rough 7 "Hardwired!"
Cheeky 20 "Kickback Scheme"

Hard
Danger 5 "Some Kind Of Lemming"
Sneaky 13 "When Only A Lemming Will Do"
Medi 16 "The Oddstack"
Rough 1 "Viva Las Lemmine"
Psycho 1 "Variety Day"
Psycho 23 "Death Row"
Cunning 17 "Cyclic Lemming"
Psycho 25 "Bullet Lemming"

Very Hard
Cunning 5 "Maximum Security"
Danger 22 "Die the Death of the Damned"
Genius 4 "Diet Control"
Genius 17 "No Construction Zone"
Psycho 20 "No Time To Die"
Genius 6 "Treetop Trial"
Fierce 13 "Crossover Arena"
Genius 8 "Panic Attack"

[namida]

I take it there's no further comments on the order, then?

Also, the Holiday Lemmings Plus level images are finally up on the NeoLemmix website.

Also - as picked by the votes on the poll earlier in this topic - the official name for LPC will be "Lemmings Plus Flashbacks".

[Akseli]

Levels that stand out most to me are Kickback Scheme (the easiest Medium level), Hardwired! (harder than Viva Las Lemmine, for example), Experimental Materials (the hardest Medium level except Hardwired! and maybe Fallen), Some Kind Of Lemming (easier than Hard), Crossover Arena maybe harder than Panic Attack (?), I haven't solved the former. But if anyone else doesn't agree with these, maybe there's not that much need to rearrange them.

[Wafflem]

I still think Some Kind of Lemming and Hardwired should be switched, but it's probably because I was able to beat the former and not the latter, and it's a small level with only four lemmings compared to a huge level that also involves a teleporter.

Crossover Arena is indeed harder than Panic Attack, and I also haven't solved it. I guess Panic Attack ended up as the last level because it was the ultimate winner of all Lemmings Plus levels.

[namida]

Kickback Scheme: Over time there's been a bit of mixed comments on how hard this one is or isn't. The NeoLemmix version does make it a bit easier though, so I guess I need to take that into account more.

Experimental Materials, Hardwired!: These two I really don't see what's so hard about them, but I guess that's part of that it's hard to judge your own levels. (The latter also has quite a similar solution to Kickback Scheme, so I find it interesting that there's such a disparity in how people find them. It was meant to be one of the "breather" levels in Rough, to be honest. It just uses a teleporter instead of climbing/bombing/bashing to get to the "top", and has a bit extra on the end.)

Some Kind Of Lemming: I might move this one back a bit, then...

Crossover Arena vs Panic Attack: IMO the two are very close in difficulty, I'd also agree that Crossover Arena is harder but firstly, as DynaLem said, Panic Attack is the overall favorite, and secondly, one crucial factor is that Crossover Arena in fact has two very different solutions that work; Panic Attack (as far as I know) only has the one. (When I first released Crossover Arena I was only aware of one solution, but Nepster found a completely different one that was just too clever to not leave it in.)

[Nepster]

Hardwired: I agree that is is likely the hardest level currently in Medium and harder than Viva las Lemmine, so I probably would have interchanged these two. But I found Some Kind Of Lemming actually harder than either of these two levels.
As for "What is hard about Hardwired": I think the solution is much more hidden than e.g. the one in Kickback scheme, even if it has some similarities.

Experimental Materials: I think it is well-placed in early Medium.

Crossover Arena vs Panic Attack: I think Crossover Arena is the harder one, because there are so many approaches that almost (but not quite) work. So it is pretty tough to see, which approach you shoud try to modify in order to solve the level. Nevertheless at the end, Panic Attack has the more complex solution, though it is easier to see if you are making progress in solving the level. So all things considered I agree with the current order, because I think a level pack should end with a level having a complex, yet beautiful solution and not necessarily with its hardest level.

[namida]

Okay, I've made a few adjustments based on these comments, and I'm going to put the pack together now.

Some random facts:
- In total there are 14 levels from LPDOS, 11 from LPII and 7 from LPIII. These proportions are actually very close to the relative numbers of levels in each pack altogether, although this fact is purely coincidental.
- Excluding Xmas and Sega (which weren't used in any of the eligible levels), there are four graphic sets which are not used in any level on the list; three of which are from OhNo and one of which is from LPIII. These are Brick, Rock, Bubble and Sky.
- The most frequently appearing graphic set is Circuit (5 levels), followed by Marble (4 levels).
- The Snow, Purple, Martian and Lab graphic sets all have only one level each.
- There is at least one level with each music track (excluding the gimmick and frenzy musics, obviously) for LPII. This is not true for either LPDOS or LPIII.
- The most common music track is LPII Track #5 (4 levels), with LPDOS Track #12 and LPIII Track #1 tied for second place (3 levels each).

Todo:
- Get the nessecary graphic sets
- Get the nessecary musics
- Get the nessecary levels
- Create a MAIN.DAT
- Set the right music numbers on levels
- Make an icon for the player
- Put it all together into a player
- Test all levels *

* Since this is considered an official Lemmings Plus release (even if it's a side entry and not a main one), the levels need more thorough testing than they do for the NeoLemmix update stream. This is particularly true for the LPDOS and LPII ones, as they haven't had an official NeoLemmix-based release before (whereas LPIII was NeoLemmix from day one). If any changes are nessecary, they'll of course be applied to the NeoLemmix update stream versions too (except of course the removal of secret level triggers in the three levels that contain them).

[namida]

Alright, it's here.

Download
https://www.dropbox.com/s/oj92a5e748tvfei/LemmingsPlusFlashbacks.exe
http://www.neolemmix.com/old/lpf.zip
(As usual, you can use either link.)

Music Pack (Optional)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bkhkkd9h9wmm2nj/LemmingsPlusFlashbacks_Music.dat
Gives the authentic Master System version musics for LPDOS and DOS version musics for LPII; it makes no difference on the LPIII tunes.

Enjoy!

All but three levels (Death Row, Treetop Trial and Panic Attack) play the same as their traditional Lemmix versions, despite NeoLemmix-isation. Even these three, only Death Row is significantly different; the other two just vary in minor details of the execution (while retaining the same overall solution). None of the levels ended up needing modification though; these are just results of how they are in NeoLemmix (and have been for ages). Aside from these three, The Oddstack also has a much more lenient time limit in the NeoLemmix version, but the same solution still works and it can be completed within the old time limit.

Consider this version to be the official release of LPF; I'll update it once to a finalised version of NeoLemmix once that exists (and include any level modifications that have been made between now and then, of course). It's running on NeoLemmix V1.26n V1.26n-B, exactly the same version as was recently released for the general update stream.

EDIT: Updated it to V1.26n-B, due to a game-breaking bug in V1.26n if a custom background color is used.